Amanda: Quote of the Series?

[Robodog]

Amanda (when talking to Wayne in the bathroom):

"I really believe - just take people as they are. Take the bloody labels off!"

Love it.

This is the whole point of equality, in a nutshell:
To see people as the individuals we all are.
Because as individuals - we stand as equals.
We are all a minority of one:
Equally as important, equally as unique as the next.

Doesn't matter what your race/gender/religion/sexual preference is - we are all an one off.

As long as we keep segregating ourselves off into different 'communities', then we deny our individuality, we reduce ourselves down to faceless cogs in the wheel of the chosen 'group'.

Splitting people up into groups like this does not create equality.
Quite the opposite. It's more like tribal warfare.

My gay/straight/black/white friends and family members are all part of the same community, OUR community.
Why would we want to separate ourselves off into 'different communities'??
What would that achieve exactly?

This is the problem with labelling people.

It's the same way racism works: label people according to their superficial 'type' and then separate and judge them for it, ordering them into some kind of 'social rating system' :

"This group are all like this. While this other group are all like that!"

It's stereotypical to do this!

Individuals matter.
Groups are vague, generalised concepts: 'groups' don't have feelings.
Individuals have feelings.

Amanda is right: take people as they are (individually) and take the labels off.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Shane J has not lived a life yet, he needs to listen to those that have


:clap1:

[Kazanne]

Amanda (when talking to Wayne in the bathroom):

"I really believe - just take people as they are. Take the bloody labels off!"

Love it.

This is the whole point of equality, in a nutshell:
To see people as the individuals we all are.
Because as individuals - we stand as equals.
We are all a minority of one:
Equally as important, equally as unique as the next.

Doesn't matter what your race/gender/religion/sexual preference is - we are all an one off.

As long as we keep segregating ourselves off into different 'communities', then we deny our individuality, we reduce ourselves down to faceless cogs in the wheel of the chosen 'group'.

Splitting people up into groups like this does not create equality.
Quite the opposite. It's more like tribal warfare.

My gay/straight/black/white friends and family members are all part of the same community, OUR community.
Why would we want to separate ourselves off into 'different communities'??
What would that achieve exactly?

This is the problem with labelling people.

It's the same way racism works: label people according to their superficial 'type' and then separate and judge them for it, ordering them into some kind of 'social rating system' :

"This group are all like this. While this other group are all like that!"

It's stereotypical to do this!

Individuals matter.
Groups are vague, generalised concepts: 'groups' don't have feelings.
Individuals have feelings.

Amanda is right: take people as they are (individually) and take the labels off.

:clap1::clap1: Excellent as always.

[-Sue-]

someone needs to send Ann that memo calling Shane /courtney a 'chav'

[waterhog]

robodog - gold star - sorry if that's a label but you deserve it. great post.

[smudgie]

Yes, labels are not good.
When will people realise there is only one race, the human race.

[Cherry Christmas]

someone needs to send Ann that memo calling Shane /courtney a 'chav'

She called Courtney a Chav, and given Courtney is a parody of a woman then that is fair enough

[hazyjo]

It's what I've been saying for years. We will never have equality and eliminate racism until people stop seeing each other as this or that. We should all be the same. Best 'man' for the job and all that. Stop trying to hit targets or worry about offending someone.

It's even worse like when people try to lump themselves into a box - like ShaneJ trying to speak for 'the whole gay community'. Lots seem to do that. Just be more like Amanda and tell them you'll follow your own rules thank you very much.

[Rustic bauble]

Amanda (when talking to Wayne in the bathroom):

"I really believe - just take people as they are. Take the bloody labels off!"

Love it.

This is the whole point of equality, in a nutshell:
To see people as the individuals we all are.
Because as individuals - we stand as equals.
We are all a minority of one:
Equally as important, equally as unique as the next.

Doesn't matter what your race/gender/religion/sexual preference is - we are all an one off.

As long as we keep segregating ourselves off into different 'communities', then we deny our individuality, we reduce ourselves down to faceless cogs in the wheel of the chosen 'group'.

Splitting people up into groups like this does not create equality.
Quite the opposite. It's more like tribal warfare.

My gay/straight/black/white friends and family members are all part of the same community, OUR community.
Why would we want to separate ourselves off into 'different communities'??
What would that achieve exactly?

This is the problem with labelling people.

It's the same way racism works: label people according to their superficial 'type' and then separate and judge them for it, ordering them into some kind of 'social rating system' :

"This group are all like this. While this other group are all like that!"

It's stereotypical to do this!

Individuals matter.
Groups are vague, generalised concepts: 'groups' don't have feelings.
Individuals have feelings.

Amanda is right: take people as they are (individually) and take the labels off.

You are absolutely right.

....and stop demanding that other people be damned for not having the same opinion in what they believe is right.
Amanda and Wayne summed it up all very nicely last night.

[luvjustin]

This is all any civil rights movement has tried to do over the rears though.

Black Lives Matter.

Stonewall.

Me Too.

None of these group were/are looking for special treatment. They are just drawing attention to the fact that they are not treated equally to everyone else. And if so,W special treatment is required to get everyone to the same level then that is also fair.

https://s14.postimg.org/fgd8ed94x/5_D495259-77_E6-422_C-99_D6-724624_F55_EB5.jpg

And the reason poeple have historically been grouped off (gay people/black people) is because they have been forced to.

[Robodog]

This is all any civil rights movement has tried to do over the rears though.

Black Lives Matter.

Stonewall.

Me Too.

None of these group were/are looking for special treatment. They are just drawing attention to the fact that they are not treated equally to everyone else. And if so,W special treatment is required to get everyone to the same level then that is also fair.

And the reason poeple have historically been grouped off (gay people/black people) is because they have been forced to.

I agree.

It was the labelling and prejudice that got us into trouble in the first place. Collectivist thinking: not seeing people as individuals, but labelling and judging everyone according to 'types'.

The KKK (for example) are racial collectivists: they judge people not as individuals, but according to their 'race'. They then demand people of those races should behave in a certain way.

Black Lives Matter are also racial collectivists who have fallen into the same trap of seeing the race before the individual, and also making judgement and demands based on race.

Check out their demands on 'white people' if you haven't come across it.

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

This tit-for-tat approach just keeps the whole divide alive.


So how best to solve group divides? It's a tricky one.

I guess we have to remember what the ultimate goal is: a society of individuals with equal rights, not a society of divided groups.

While group identity is no doubt useful for raising awareness and to overcome prejudice, it can only work as a temporary measure.
At some point group identity must be abandoned if people want become one with the whole community at large.

It's like a car to take us to a destination, but it is not the destination itself.

So how do we know when our goal has been reached?

Does ALL prejudice have to be eliminated in order for people to say "ok, job done"?

Or is it enough to say "ok there is majority acceptance now, so that will have to do. (and the minority of prejudiced people can go **** themselves)"

My worry is the longer people keep identifying themselves (and each other) as groups, and not as individuals, the harder it will be achieve peace in society and see us all as the individuals we all are.

.

[chuff me dizzy]

Excellent post Robodog :clap1::clap1: So sick of people sticking a label on themselves

[Robodog]

Excellent post Robodog :clap1::clap1: So sick of people sticking a label on themselves

Thanks Chuff

Appreciate your wisdom and support :wavey:

Glad there are enough of us getting tired of this labelling culture now, it keeps us all divided

[chuff me dizzy]

Thanks Chuff

Appreciate your wisdom and support :wavey:

Glad there are enough of us getting tired of this labelling culture now, it keeps us all divided

Some people LOVE having a label ,its their life they think it is their right

[ChristmasNeeve]

"Something came in about the Page 3 thing...and that's when I went: you know what, let me just make a sandwich. It's like a volcano, you see a little bubble pop there and another pop over there and then it's pop pop pop together, you know it's time to go and make a sandwich."

- Shane Lynch, 2018

https://i.redd.it/pfoencyugeb01.gif

[chuff me dizzy]

"Something came in about the Page 3 thing...and that's when I went: you know what, let me just make a sandwich. It's like a volcano, you see a little bubble pop there and another pop over there and then it's pop pop pop together, you know it's time to go and make a sandwich."

- Shane Lynch, 2018

https://i.redd.it/pfoencyugeb01.gif

:worship::kiss:

[Tom4784]

She's entitled to not want to get involved if she wants but I utterly despise how people will use statements like that to try to demonise and downplay movements that make them uncomfortable.

[jaxie]

Amanda (when talking to Wayne in the bathroom):

"I really believe - just take people as they are. Take the bloody labels off!"

Love it.

This is the whole point of equality, in a nutshell:
To see people as the individuals we all are.
Because as individuals - we stand as equals.
We are all a minority of one:
Equally as important, equally as unique as the next.

Doesn't matter what your race/gender/religion/sexual preference is - we are all an one off.

As long as we keep segregating ourselves off into different 'communities', then we deny our individuality, we reduce ourselves down to faceless cogs in the wheel of the chosen 'group'.

Splitting people up into groups like this does not create equality.
Quite the opposite. It's more like tribal warfare.

My gay/straight/black/white friends and family members are all part of the same community, OUR community.
Why would we want to separate ourselves off into 'different communities'??
What would that achieve exactly?

This is the problem with labelling people.

It's the same way racism works: label people according to their superficial 'type' and then separate and judge them for it, ordering them into some kind of 'social rating system' :

"This group are all like this. While this other group are all like that!"

It's stereotypical to do this!

Individuals matter.
Groups are vague, generalised concepts: 'groups' don't have feelings.
Individuals have feelings.

Amanda is right: take people as they are (individually) and take the labels off.

:clap1:

[Marches]

This was such a fantastic quote btw and a great way to think about life that everyone should adopt. We’ve been going so far the other way as a society lately we need more people like Amanda

[Christmas Lights]

Just for that quote alone Amanda should be in the final instead of Shane J :clap1:.

[Livia]

I've seen Stonewall mentioned on this forum several times now. Stonewall's motto is 'Acceptance without exception'. So if you're going to use it as an example, it would be fitting to apply that motto to everyone even when it's hard to do.

[Amy Jade]

She called Courtney a Chav, and given Courtney is a parody of a woman then that is fair enough

How is it?

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I've seen Stonewall mentioned on this forum several times now. Stonewall's motto is 'Acceptance without exception'. So if you're going to use it as an example, it would be fitting to apply that motto to everyone even when it's hard to do.

yes and if they dont accept it call them scum and hate on them

[chuff me dizzy]

What a better world it would be if people would drop the labels they stick on themselves .... If people are nice be they black, white,gay or straight ,no one needs the label and to demand special treatment because you own a label will get you nowhere in life

[Peppermint]

Any of Shane/Courtney's quotes are better than this

[chuff me dizzy]

Any of Shane/Courtney's quotes are better than this

Me,me,me,me gets boring after hearing it once :bored:

[Cherry Christmas]

How is it?

Courtney is a character, just like someone playing a character in a soap

[Miranda123]

This is all any civil rights movement has tried to do over the rears though.

Black Lives Matter.

Stonewall.

Me Too.

None of these group were/are looking for special treatment. They are just drawing attention to the fact that they are not treated equally to everyone else. And if so,W special treatment is required to get everyone to the same level then that is also fair.

https://s14.postimg.org/fgd8ed94x/5_D495259-77_E6-422_C-99_D6-724624_F55_EB5.jpg

And the reason poeple have historically been grouped off (gay people/black people) is because they have been forced to.


Thats complete rubbish, all of the groups you mentioned cause more division and most have no clue of what equality looks like

Amanda won an award at Attitude awards, and in her acceptance speech, said "I long for the day that we dont have to get awards for being gay"

She was right, it should all be about inclusion

The problem with Black Lives Matter, is that they are nearly all young people with no f.cking clue of what it is really like to suffer racism as their parents and grandparents did, but they think its okay to pick up the baton anyway and run with it

The problem with the METoo campaign is that it began because some tramps in Hollywood shagged some fat ugly producers to get jobs, and when those jobs did not propel them to great heights.......they thought they would join the campaign, ask yourself this, how many actual charges have been brought against producers etc, I think the answer is NONE, cause you cant get nicked for asking a bitch to shag you for a job, its NOT against the law, to lie to a woman

The only one I actually feel sorry for is the one who started it all, Rose McGowan, who was brought up in a cult by her thick as **** mother and had an appaling life before she ever got into a room wit the fat slug Weinstein

And ask yourself, how many girls were propositioned like that by producers, directors etc and said "F.ck off mate and stick your job up your ass", I would imagine there were many, but we wont hear about them cause they walked away with their dignity intact

Shane J's problem, however, is much more simple, he is a self obsessed c..t
and I really hope he, not only goes first, but falls going down the stairs and breaks something other than his shoes!

[chuff me dizzy]

Thats complete rubbish, all of the groups you mentioned cause more division and most have no clue of what equality looks like

Amanda won an award at Attitude awards, and in her acceptance speech, said "I long for the day that we dont have to get awards for being gay"

She was right, it should all be about inclusion

The problem with Black Lives Matter, is that they are nearly all young people with no f.cking clue of what it is really like to suffer racism as their parents and grandparents did, but they think its okay to pick up the baton anyway and run with it

The problem with the METoo campaign is that it began because some tramps in Hollywood shagged some fat ugly producers to get jobs, and when those jobs did not propel them to great heights.......they thought they would join the campaign, ask yourself this, how many actual charges have been brought against producers etc, I think the answer is NONE, cause you cant get nicked for asking a bitch to shag you for a job, its NOT against the law, to lie to a woman

The only one I actually feel sorry for is the one who started it all, Rose McGowan, who was brought up in a cult by her thick as **** mother and had an appaling life before she ever got into a room wit the fat slug Weinstein

And ask yourself, how many girls were propositioned like that by producers, directors etc and said "F.ck off mate and stick your job up your ass", I would imagine there were many, but we wont hear about them cause they walked away with their dignity intact

Shane J's problem, however, is much more simple, he is a self obsessed c..t
and I really hope he, not only goes first, but falls going down the stairs and breaks something other than his shoes!


Excellent post as usual

[Marches]

Thats complete rubbish, all of the groups you mentioned cause more division and most have no clue of what equality looks like

Amanda won an award at Attitude awards, and in her acceptance speech, said "I long for the day that we dont have to get awards for being gay"

She was right, it should all be about inclusion

The problem with Black Lives Matter, is that they are nearly all young people with no f.cking clue of what it is really like to suffer racism as their parents and grandparents did, but they think its okay to pick up the baton anyway and run with it

The problem with the METoo campaign is that it began because some tramps in Hollywood shagged some fat ugly producers to get jobs, and when those jobs did not propel them to great heights.......they thought they would join the campaign, ask yourself this, how many actual charges have been brought against producers etc, I think the answer is NONE, cause you cant get nicked for asking a bitch to shag you for a job, its NOT against the law, to lie to a woman

The only one I actually feel sorry for is the one who started it all, Rose McGowan, who was brought up in a cult by her thick as **** mother and had an appaling life before she ever got into a room wit the fat slug Weinstein

And ask yourself, how many girls were propositioned like that by producers, directors etc and said "F.ck off mate and stick your job up your ass", I would imagine there were many, but we wont hear about them cause they walked away with their dignity intact

Shane J's problem, however, is much more simple, he is a self obsessed c..t
and I really hope he, not only goes first, but falls going down the stairs and breaks something other than his shoes!

Fantastic post

[Tom4784]

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

[Marches]

I am part of the demographic and labels and being loud about things at this stage of let’s say gay rights is counter productive

[Tom4784]

I am part of the demographic and labels and being loud about things at this stage of let’s say gay rights is counter productive

Of course it isn't, the only people that being loud offends are the people who will never accept that there's a problem because they either take issues with whomever or they like the status quo as it is.

People should not be silent on what troubles them just because someone who will never understand doesn't want to hear.

[Marches]

But it’s not troubling Shane Jenek nobody in that house is discriminating against him

[bots]

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

i don't see it that way at all. I see it as everyone is an individual and should be afforded the same respect whomever they are. Discrimination is a big deal, prejudice is a big deal, but we have to get past special categorization, to genuinely treat everyone equally.

[joeysteele]

someone needs to send Ann that memo calling Shane /courtney a 'chav'

Indeed I agree.

That will be overlooked however.

[Marches]

We’ve got equal rights now it’s time to normalise being gay. Yelling about it doesn’t help it ostracises themselves and their community

[Tom4784]

i don't see it that way at all. I see it as everyone is an individual and should be afforded the same respect whomever they are. Discrimination is a big deal, prejudice is a big deal, but we have to get passed special categorization, to genuinely treat everyone equally.

But that's never going to be the case because people aren't equal, it's just expecting everyone that's not the majority to be happy with their lot when they don't get the same quality of life for societal reasons.

I despise this attitude of 'oh well, things will never be equal while the gays/black people etc have pride/black history month/ special circumstances that don't balance out the scales in the slightest but offends people in the majority nonetheless!' You can't expect someone who is not on an equal playing field to give up what they have just for the smallest possibility of equality. Improve those situations to a point that these things aren't needed any more but don't ask people to give up things on a vague maybe.

[Marches]

Homosexuality isn’t a disability why does everyone itt keep speaking like it is lol,we have equal rights

[Amy Jade]

Courtney is a character, just like someone playing a character in a soap

Completely untrue and shows how little you understand.

[Paula D]

Completely untrue and shows how little you understand.

You genuinely believe Courtney is a separate person to Shane?

Seriously? You need to look into that thinking.

[Amy Jade]

You genuinely believe Courtney is a separate person to Shane?

Seriously? You need to look into that thinking.

Of course not and that is the point. Shane IS Courtney.

[bots]

Of course not and that is the point. Shane IS Courtney.

so you don't think he is putting on an act, a performance if you will ..... little clue .... its in the name

[Paula D]

Of course not and that is the point. Shane IS Courtney.

Precisely, Shane is a character dressed up as Courtney, what do you not understand about that?

Courtney as a person does NOT exist.

[Robodog]

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a dangerous mentality that judges people not as individuals - but according to their 'type'.
We have to move away from 'group-think' and embrace individualism.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo movement - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

[chuff me dizzy]

Completely untrue and shows how little you understand.

Of course Courtney is a character in an act, making Shane an actor

[chuff me dizzy]

Precisely, Shane is a character dressed up as Courtney, what do you not understand about that?

Courtney as a person does NOT exist.

Exactly

[Tom4784]

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a society that judges people according to 'type'.
The only way to do that is to embrace our own - and each others - individuality.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo - however well meaning they are - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

Very little of that has anything to do with what I'm saying, in fact your first few paragraphs enforces it. Too many people pretend to fly the flag of equality just to quieten down dissenting voices while having no interest in actually working towards that equality.

The whole 'innocent men and innocent white people' being victimised by Metoo and BLM made me roll my eyes in a way that Ann would have stood up and clapped for. BLM isn't against all white people, it isn't even against white people, it's against police brutality, it was formed in response to a string of unjustified murders committed by the police against black people. If you look at BLM and think that they are against white people then you are missing the point.

Same for Metoo, it's not an attack on men, it's an attack on anyone that sexually abuses, assaults or harasses others. If you see the movement as an attack on 'innocent men' then you've missed the point again.

You've not really given me any reason to believe that you aren't just another person that wants to shut up voices they don't want to hear.

[Robodog]

1. If you look at BLM and think that they are against white people then you are missing the point.

2. If you see the movement as an attack on 'innocent men' then you've missed the point again.

3, You've not really given me any reason to believe that you aren't just another person that wants to shut up voices they don't want to hear.

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/catherine-deneuve-among-100-women-denouncing-metoo-campaign-open-letter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

[Tom4784]

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/catherine-deneuve-among-100-women-denouncing-metoo-campaign-open-letter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

One person doesn't speak for a movement.

A voice damning a movement doesn't rob it of it's validity either.

As for your final point, it's called reading between the lines. You say you want equality but your criticism of these groups and the fact that you're justifying your dislike through both a warped understanding of their goals and presenting singular people as evidence of your claims speaks louder.

The fact that you are suggesting civil rights group help perpetuate these issues further than if they were silent says it all. It's that silence you're after.

[Robodog]

1. One person doesn't speak for a movement.

2. A voice damning a movement doesn't rob it of it's validity either.

3. As for your final point, it's called reading between the lines.
The fact that you are suggesting civil rights group help perpetuate these issues further than if they were silent says it all. It's that silence you're after.

1. Erm... A leader DOES speak for a movement.
You think that level of racism is acceptable?
I don't.
Not by ANYONE, black or white.
Justify it, ignore it all you like.
But you cannot seriously claim to be for equality if you do.

2. The open letter raises some serious questions about the potential harm of the metoo movement for both men AND women and it's impact on how we flirt, seduce, approach and perceive each other.

Again you can ignore it if you want to, but you cannot claim to be for social righteousness if you are so ready to dismiss such serious concerns.

3. It's not called 'reading between the lines'. It's called 'you putting words into my mouth'

Nowhere have i asked for anyone's silence.
Quite the reverse, i have opened up this thread for discussion!
Sounds like you are the one trying to do the silencing of any perspective that threatens your own narrative.

You want equality and fair treatment?
So do I.
On that we can agree.
The question is how do we achieve that?

You seem to be defending the 'group think' approach.
Judging by the examples given such as the BLM's racist demands. i can't see how that can do anything but make it worse.

I'm saying take the individualist approach.

Pursue the INDIVIDUALS for the crimes they commit: whether that is white cops killing innocent blacks or muslim men raping white girls.

Pursuing those individuals by law, will send out the message to any other would-be criminals that such treatment of others is not acceptable.

No need to demonise all whites or all cops due to the criminal actions of certain individuals.
No need to demonise all muslims for the criminal actions of certain individuals.

I can think of nothing more racist or more destructive than continuing down that path.

[Robodog]

To clarify. This is what i'm talking about:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.


.

[Vicky.]

"I really believe - just take people as they are. Take the bloody labels off!"

Indeed. The ****ing amount of labels youngsters give themselves/others is bloody insane. Everything needs a label. Not a girly girl? Non-binary. Prefer romance to sex, aromantic. And so on. Its ridiculous. The amount of labels Shane came out with the other night is just pathetic (I semi suspect he was taking the piss, but that really is how a lot of people think these days). Sorry but it is. There really is no need. People are people. We do not need a label to outline every single aspect of your personality.

[Paula D]

1. Erm... A leader DOES speak for a movement.
You think that level of racism is acceptable?
I don't.
Not by ANYONE, black or white.
Justify it, ignore it all you like.
But you cannot seriously claim to be for equality if you do.

2. The open letter raises some serious questions about the potential harm of the metoo movement for both men AND women and it's impact on how we flirt, seduce, approach and perceive each other.

Again you can ignore it if you want to, but you cannot claim to be for social righteousness if you are so ready to dismiss such serious concerns.

3. It's not called 'reading between the lines'. It's called 'you putting words into my mouth'

Nowhere have i asked for anyone's silence.
Quite the reverse, i have opened up this thread for discussion!
Sounds like you are the one trying to do the silencing of any perspective that threatens your own narrative.

You want equality and fair treatment?
So do I.
On that we can agree.
The question is how do we achieve that?

You seem to be defending the 'group think' approach.
Judging by the examples given such as the BLM's racist demands. i can't see how that can do anything but make it worse.

I'm saying take the individualist approach.

Pursue the INDIVIDUALS for the crimes they commit: whether that is white cops killing innocent blacks or muslim men raping white girls.

Pursuing those individuals by law, will send out the message to any other would-be criminals that such treatment of others is not acceptable.

No need to demonise all whites or all cops due to the criminal actions of certain individuals.
No need to demonise all muslims for the criminal actions of certain individuals.

I can think of nothing more racist or more destructive than continuing down that path.Very very well said Robo.

To be honest I think it takes a lot of years to come to the realisation that PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.

In my younger days I would of made judgements about people based on their "group" now I take each individual as I find them.

That comes with age which is why Wayne and Amanda have it.

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[Vicky.]

This is all any civil rights movement has tried to do over the rears though.

Black Lives Matter.

Stonewall.

Me Too.

None of these group were/are looking for special treatment. They are just drawing attention to the fact that they are not treated equally to everyone else. And if so,W special treatment is required to get everyone to the same level then that is also fair.

https://s14.postimg.org/fgd8ed94x/5_D495259-77_E6-422_C-99_D6-724624_F55_EB5.jpg

And the reason poeple have historically been grouped off (gay people/black people) is because they have been forced to.
Also agree with this. Equality is not what should be strived for really. Equity is important. Equality is not always the fairest way to do things as it does not happen in a vacuum and you have to acknowledge how different groups are treat and the struggles they do face. Yes laws are pretty much equal now, but actual treatment of people day to day is not.

[poppsywoppsy]

Indeed. The ****ing amount of labels youngsters give themselves/others is bloody insane. Everything needs a label. Not a girly girl? Non-binary. Prefer romance to sex, aromantic. And so on. Its ridiculous. The amount of labels Shane came out with the other night is just pathetic (I semi suspect he was taking the piss, but that really is how a lot of people think these days). Sorry but it is. There really is no need. People are people. We do not need a label to outline every single aspect of your personality.

Excellent xx

[Robodog]

Very very well said Robo.

To be honest I think it takes a lot of years to come to the realisation that PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.

In my younger days I would of made judgements about people based on their "group" now I take each individual as I find them.

That comes with age which is why Wayne and Amanda have it.



Thanks Paula :wavey:

Yes, I went through the same thing. Used to see groups before people.

With age, comes wisdom.

You see the pitfalls of your old perceptions.

And the importance of evolving them.

[Paula D]

Also agree with this. Equality is not what should be strived for really. Equity is important. Equality is not always the fairest way to do things as it does not happen in a vacuum and you have to acknowledge how different groups are treat and the struggles they do face. Yes laws are pretty much equal now, but actual treatment of people day to day is not.I honestly don't see it Vicky. Maybe the UK is different to Ireland but I don't see gay people or people of a different race treated any differently in day to day life.

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[chuff me dizzy]

I honestly don't see it Vicky. Maybe the UK is different to Ireland but I don't see gay people or people of a different race treated any differently in day to day life.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Im in the Uk and I can't see it either

[Marches]

Indeed. The ****ing amount of labels youngsters give themselves/others is bloody insane. Everything needs a label. Not a girly girl? Non-binary. Prefer romance to sex, aromantic. And so on. Its ridiculous. The amount of labels Shane came out with the other night is just pathetic (I semi suspect he was taking the piss, but that really is how a lot of people think these days). Sorry but it is. There really is no need. People are people. We do not need a label to outline every single aspect of your personality.

He wasn’t being ironic he did it in his vt too

[Marches]

I honestly don't see it Vicky. Maybe the UK is different to Ireland but I don't see gay people or people of a different race treated any differently in day to day life.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

The worst I’ve ever been discriminated for being gay was at school where they mocked me for it. They also mocked my hair, shoes, voice, acne, basically everything. A lot of young people and maybe even people in general is that they want to pull as many things as possible into like discrimatory labels that have other meanings or intent to them as well. They just want to paint the entire world as sexist, homophobic, racist ect

There was a quote from Ann day 1 in the house that went something like ‘a girl came up to me in parliament and said ‘isn’t it bad how men treat us’ and they didn’t treat her bad because she was a woman they treated her bad because she was useless’

[Vicky.]

I honestly don't see it Vicky. Maybe the UK is different to Ireland but I don't see gay people or people of a different race treated any differently in day to day life.


Yeah I get that some people don't get/see it. I think sometimes unless you are part of the disadvantaged group its something you just won't get as everything does seem to be equal. Like, I will try to explain what I mean from the POV of a woman...who do have equal rights in law from men, but are still disadvantaged anyway. If I go for a job interview, I know that there is a quite large chance that I will be discriminated against for being the age I am and female, as employers think I may go off on maternity leave soon. Whilst they are not allowed to actually not pick me for that reason, it does happen and all they have to say is 'well the man was best for the job'. Its against the law to discriminate based on sex, but it happens and people just have ways around it. At the same time, I am at very large risk of sexual assault, simply for being female. Yes, it is against the law to sexually assault someone, but again, it happens, and a LOT.

I could go on and on about this but I figure this is probably enough and anymore will have me labelled a raving lunatic :laugh: There are so many different ways people experience discrimination that are not necessarily about the law being unequal. This is why I believe equity is better than equality. Equality totally ignores the various ways that people are still discriminated against. Equality is a great idea, but its just not feasible in reality, if everyone started off on equal footing, then it would be different, but they do not. Sometimes treating everyone equal is the most unfair thing you can do.

Edited to add. I don't walk around feeling sorry for myself because I am a woman and may face discrimination or be attacked for something I cannot change mind. But I do acknowledge that I am likely to be disadvantaged due to my sex.

[Miranda123]

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

I have been part of the demographic since childhood, as part of an Irish Catholic Traveller family, the first to live in an actual house, so please dont assume you know me or anyone else writing on here

Professional victimhood is the name of the game now, and why ?

because the young, today, dont want to think, or feel, for themselves, so they go online to see HOW they should think and feel, and read a load of drivel from other professional victims

I had a friend who killed himself because his family would not accept him being gay, that was an horrendous time and I would not wish that feeling on anyone, but the only thing he wanted, was to be seen as who he was, a loving, kind, intelligent man, who treated everyone with respect if they deserved it, and the only thing he wanted was for his family to see him as their Son/Brother, and not the 'Gay' man he was, because just as heterosexuals do not share their sexual preferences around the dinner table, he did not see why his sexual preference was the 'elephant in the room'

The day we dont ask, an obviously gay man, if he is gay, or an obviously black person, where they/their parents are from will be a day to celebrate

Of course we will still have the snowflakes crying into their quinoa but seriously, who gives a f..k!

[chuff me dizzy]

The worst I’ve ever been discriminated for being gay was at school where they mocked me for it. They also mocked my hair, shoes, voice, acne, basically everything. A lot of young people and maybe even people in general is that they want to pull as many things as possible into like discrimatory labels that have other meanings or intent to them as well. They just want to paint the entire world as sexist, homophobic, racist ect

There was a quote from Ann day 1 in the house that went something like ‘a girl came up to me in parliament and said ‘isn’t it bad how men treat us’ and they didn’t treat her bad because she was a woman they treated her bad because she was useless’

Lots of children get this treatment too, nothing to do with sexuality

[Miranda123]

But it’s not troubling Shane Jenek nobody in that house is discriminating against him

Wouldnt he just love it if they were

He has been dying for Ann to get personal and rude, but she hasnt, he must be gutted

His 'professional victim' status isnt working lol

[Miranda123]

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a dangerous mentality that judges people not as individuals - but according to their 'type'.
We have to move away from 'group-think' and embrace individualism.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo movement - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

Bloody well said!!!

[chuff me dizzy]

Wouldnt he just love it if they were

He has been dying for Ann to get personal and rude, but she hasnt, he must be gutted

His 'professional victim' status isnt working lol

Oh yes,his plan has failed miserably

[Miranda123]

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/catherine-deneuve-among-100-women-denouncing-metoo-campaign-open-letter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

You know snowflakes ignore all reason, cause it doesnt fit with the narrative of the lefty brainwashing they suffer at the hands of middle class twats at home and at school

The middle class are responsible for this and must be destroyed

Hows that for fairness lol

[Paula D]

Yeah I get that some people don't get/see it. I think sometimes unless you are part of the disadvantaged group its something you just won't get as everything does seem to be equal. Like, I will try to explain what I mean from the POV of a woman...who do have equal rights in law from men, but are still disadvantaged anyway. If I go for a job interview, I know that there is a quite large chance that I will be discriminated against for being the age I am and female, as employers think I may go off on maternity leave soon. Whilst they are not allowed to actually not pick me for that reason, it does happen and all they have to say is 'well the man was best for the job'. Its against the law to discriminate based on sex, but it happens and people just have ways around it. At the same time, I am at very large risk of sexual assault, simply for being female. Yes, it is against the law to sexually assault someone, but again, it happens, and a LOT.

I could go on and on about this but I figure this is probably enough and anymore will have me labelled a raving lunatic [emoji23] There are so many different ways people experience discrimination that are not necessarily about the law being unequal. This is why I believe equity is better than equality. Equality totally ignores the various ways that people are still discriminated against. Equality is a great idea, but its just not feasible in reality, if everyone started off on equal footing, then it would be different, but they do not. Sometimes treating everyone equal is the most unfair thing you can do.

Edited to add. I don't walk around feeling sorry for myself because I am a woman and may face discrimination or be attacked for something I cannot change mind. But I do acknowledge that I am likely to be disadvantaged due to my sex.Yeah I agree with all that and understand it but in the 2 examples you give they are both down to individuals.

The individual who won't hire a woman and the individual who will carry out a sexual assault.

What I'm trying to say is we can only change one person and that's ourselves. That in turn filters down to our children and so on and so on.

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[Vicky.]

Yeah I agree with all that and understand it but in the 2 examples you give they are both down to individuals.

The individual who won't hire a woman and the individual who will carry out a sexual assault.

What I'm trying to say is we can only change one person and that's ourselves. That in turn filters down to our children and so on and so on.

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Well yes, I guess it is down to individuals, but it is a lot of individuals. Hence its still a huge problem for a lot of people. If it was just the odd person who thought that way then it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but its not. Its a significant minority and it does hold people back for reasons they cannot help or change.

I do think as time goes on things will actually become more equal. But for now, things are not equal in reality even though the law is equal.

The bolded bit I definitely agree with.

[bots]

i have no issue with a group promoting equality for a group that is disadvantaged, however, there always comes a point where that group misrepresents the members it is supposed to represent. Why? because no one thinks the same, no one faces exactly the same challenges. As the group approaches gaining equality, it feels it has to justify itself by demanding more and more and at that point people kick back against it and association with that group becomes more of a hindrance than an advantage. There are countless examples of this throughout history. As a group only so much can be achieved and then its up to the individual, because believe it or not, life just isn't fair, it doesn't work like that. Some have to work much harder to achieve their aims than others. That will never change, because we are not born equal.

[poppsywoppsy]

Yeah I get that some people don't get/see it. I think sometimes unless you are part of the disadvantaged group its something you just won't get as everything does seem to be equal. Like, I will try to explain what I mean from the POV of a woman...who do have equal rights in law from men, but are still disadvantaged anyway. If I go for a job interview, I know that there is a quite large chance that I will be discriminated against for being the age I am and female, as employers think I may go off on maternity leave soon. Whilst they are not allowed to actually not pick me for that reason, it does happen and all they have to say is 'well the man was best for the job'. Its against the law to discriminate based on sex, but it happens and people just have ways around it. At the same time, I am at very large risk of sexual assault, simply for being female. Yes, it is against the law to sexually assault someone, but again, it happens, and a LOT.

I could go on and on about this but I figure this is probably enough and anymore will have me labelled a raving lunatic :laugh: There are so many different ways people experience discrimination that are not necessarily about the law being unequal. This is why I believe equity is better than equality. Equality totally ignores the various ways that people are still discriminated against. Equality is a great idea, but its just not feasible in reality, if everyone started off on equal footing, then it would be different, but they do not. Sometimes treating everyone equal is the most unfair thing you can do.

Edited to add. I don't walk around feeling sorry for myself because I am a woman and may face discrimination or be attacked for something I cannot change mind. But I do acknowledge that I am likely to be disadvantaged due to my sex.

This happened to me just after I gained my qualifications as a mature student.

I had years of workplace experience as well and applied for a job in London and went for an interview. The man looked at my CV asked about my work and at the end of the interview said I was too old to lead his young team, this was his only comment. I immediately said he couldn't say this and went to the local job centre for advice.

They found out later that he employed a man older than me with no qualifications. I took it to tribunal where he said I had not enough experience and supplied my CV with the whole page of my working life, missing.
I had his solicitor ring me with threats saying my claim was malicious and I would be liable for high court costs. I told him to get lost or I would report him for harassment.

On the morning of the tribunal, they conceded without going to court. I refused to accept their first measly offer but accepted a second.

This is just my experience of how a woman of an age was treated in the workplace.

I spent some of the money on a lovely trip to Hong Kong, Thailand and Singapore, I sent him a postcard saying thanks:laugh:

[bots]

This happened to me just after I gained my qualifications as a mature student.

I had years of workplace experience as well and applied for a job in London and went for an interview. The man looked at my CV asked about my work and at the end of the interview said I was too old to lead his young team, this was his only comment. I immediately said he couldn't say this and went to the local job centre for advice.

They found out later that he employed a man older than me with no qualifications. I took it to tribunal where he said I had not enough experience and supplied my CV with the whole page of my working life, missing.
I had his solicitor ring me with threats saying my claim was malicious and I would be liable for high court costs. I told him to get lost or I would report him for harassment.

On the morning of the tribunal, they conceded without going to court. I refused to accept their first measly offer but accepted a second.

This is just my experience of how a woman of an age was treated in the workplace.

I spent some of the money on a lovely trip to Hong Kong, Thailand and Singapore, I sent him a postcard saying thanks:laugh:

and thats how to deal with discrimination :laugh:

[Robodog]

You know snowflakes ignore all reason, cause it doesnt fit with the narrative of the lefty brainwashing they suffer at the hands of middle class twats at home and at school

The middle class are responsible for this and must be destroyed

Hows that for fairness lol

It's the 'everybody gets a trophy' way of educating/training.

It's created a sense of mass entitlement and for many - an inability to deal with facts and perspectives that challenge their own narrative.
Not good for when you cut the apron strings and hit the real world.
That's why so many people today can't have a discussion without immediately labelling their opponent and shutting down the debate.

The media doesn't help either, the way it stirs up division and hate on a daily basis.


I reckon all 18-21 year olds should be required to work in a third world country for a month. A government scheme like national service.

Nothing makes you grow up quicker, have respect for others and appreciate what you've got.

That would sort out the first world problems from the REAL issues.

.