Was Justice done ? James Bulger

[Kazanne]

Do you think justice was done ?
http://amedpost.com/tvshowbiz/when-is-the-bulger-killers-was-justice-done-on-channel-4-tonight-and-whos-involved-in-the-documentary/

This new documentary will air TONIGHT (February 5, 2018) at 9pm.
You can catch it on Channel 4, and after it has aired on 4 Catch Up.

Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were only 10-years-old when they became the country’s youngest murderers in 250 years.
In February 1993, Little James was led away by the depraved duo while his mother was in a butcher’s shop at the busy shopping centre.

A picture taken from CCTV footage shows the tot being taken by the hand in what would become one of the defining images of the shocking case.
The killers walked James for two and half miles and were spotted by 38 people – some of whom challenged the pair.
Venables and Thompson told passers-by that the distressed toddler was their younger brother or that he was lost and they were taking him to a local police station.
The pair took James to a railway line and tortured, beat and sexually assaulted him.

They poured modelling paint into his eyes, stoned him and clubbed him with bricks, before leaving him on the railway line to be hit by a train.
After killing the tot they left his body near the tracks where it was discovered two days later.
The pair were jailed for the crime but released in 2011.

PA:Press Association James’ mum Denise Fergus has campaigned for justice for her boy

[Vicky.]

Justice is almost never done in cases like this, too much emphasis on rehabilitiation. Venables should rot. He keeps being let out and reoffending. Why the **** keep letting him out. He is never going to change.

The other one was possibly rehabilitated. But I don't like taking such a chance...let them out and see if they reoffend to check if they are rehabilitiated? Nah.

[jaxie]

Thanks for the heads up Kazanne, I'll bookmark it to watch. I'll never forget the shock of this case at the time and it's still so shocking.

Justice is almost never done in cases like this, too much emphasis on rehabilitiation. Venables should rot. He keeps being let out and reoffending. Why the **** keep letting him out. He is never going to change.

The other one was possibly rehabilitated. But I don't like taking such a chance...let them out and see if they reoffend to check if they are rehabilitiated? Nah.

Venables clearly needs to be in custody and that should have been evident the first time he broke parole. What worries me the other one is that they say he is in a relationship. He may be quiet now but what if he has children?

[Kazanne]

Thanks for the heads up Kazanne, I'll bookmark it to watch. I'll never forget the shock of this case at the time and it's still so shocking.



Venables clearly needs to be in custody and that should have been evident the first time he broke parole. What worries me the other one is that they say he is in a relationship. He may be quiet now but what if he has children?

There is another one on Thursday Jaxie, but this one is an interview with his mom and all about James,it will be sad, I cant believe it was 25 years ago this year.

[Tom4784]

To the extent it could have ethically been done in that case. It's difficult when the perpetrators are children, we need to believe they can be rehabilitated because the idea of a life sentence for a child is monstrous no matter the circumstances.

Jon Venables has since shown that he cannot be rehabilitated and I don't think he should have ever been released when he started re-offending.

[jet]

There is another one on Thursday Jaxie, but this one is an interview with his mom and all about James,it will be sad, I cant believe it was 25 years ago this year.

Thanks Kaz, I'll be watching. However, not sure I could bear to watch the Thurs one with his Mum being interviewed. Its so brave of her to do it.

Imo Justice has NOT been done. It's disgusting that Venables hasn't been locked up for the rest of his days.

[jaxie]

Surely there comes a point where they say well you were a child and we gave you a chance but its clear as an adult you are a danger to children.

[Kazanne]

Surely there comes a point where they say well you were a child and we gave you a chance but its clear as an adult you are a danger to children.

I think they should have gone to big boys prison when they reached 18,in those young offenders places they got everything they would not have gotten otherwise,it's like they were rewarded,as for Venables we were told after 8 years if they so much as put a foot wrong they would be taken to prison and what do they do let him out again with another new ID that we are all paying for and boom he does it again,lock the filthy pervert up.

[bots]

In the case of Venables for sure, he clearly wasn't rehabilitated so something is wrong with their tests on eligibility for release. That to me is the key point in all this. The review board do not seem to be learning from mistakes

[joeysteele]

Watching this, it is really hard going.
Awful hearing the detail of what little James suffered.
Heartbreaking.

[Kazanne]

Yes it's heart breaking, the sentence was a joke .

[Kazanne]

Really annoyed Michael Howards 15 year tariff was over ruled.

[joeysteele]

Yes it's heart breaking, the sentence was a joke .

Totally.
This is pure evil.
It's a word I don't like to use but it's the only one that fits this horrific barbaric murder.

[Kazanne]

Of course they knew what they were doing.why else would they leave him on a train track to be cut in half and cover his face with bricks to make it look like an accident,they knew and they planned it.

[hijaxers]

Of course they knew what they were doing.why else would they leave him on a train track to be cut in half and cover his face with bricks to make it look like an accident,they knew and they planned it.

Well i think a massive majority of the public were disgusted by how this case was dealt with and if most are like me they still are !

[joeysteele]

Of course they knew what they were doing.why else would they leave him on a train track to be cut in half and cover his face with bricks to make it look like an accident,they knew and they planned it.

This must be so hard for you,being closer to it than we are.
It's just really awful.

No,justice has not been done at all.

[Wizard.]

Really annoyed Michael Howards 15 year tariff was over ruled.

That’s the House of Lords for you. Abolish them!

[Kazanne]

This must be so hard for you,being closer to it than we are.
It's just really awful.

No,justice has not been done at all.

It's really hard Joey,and I seethe everytime they are shown,and although it is against everything I stand for I hope James haunts them for the rest of their miserable lives,I hope they find no peace and the day they cease to exist will be a good day for me and many people I'm sure.

[Brillopad]

Do you think justice was done ?
http://amedpost.com/tvshowbiz/when-is-the-bulger-killers-was-justice-done-on-channel-4-tonight-and-whos-involved-in-the-documentary/

This new documentary will air TONIGHT (February 5, 2018) at 9pm.
You can catch it on Channel 4, and after it has aired on 4 Catch Up.

Robert Thompson and Jon Venables were only 10-years-old when they became the country’s youngest murderers in 250 years.
In February 1993, Little James was led away by the depraved duo while his mother was in a butcher’s shop at the busy shopping centre.

A picture taken from CCTV footage shows the tot being taken by the hand in what would become one of the defining images of the shocking case.
The killers walked James for two and half miles and were spotted by 38 people – some of whom challenged the pair.
Venables and Thompson told passers-by that the distressed toddler was their younger brother or that he was lost and they were taking him to a local police station.
The pair took James to a railway line and tortured, beat and sexually assaulted him.

They poured modelling paint into his eyes, stoned him and clubbed him with bricks, before leaving him on the railway line to be hit by a train.
After killing the tot they left his body near the tracks where it was discovered two days later.
The pair were jailed for the crime but released in 2011.

PA:Press Association James’ mum Denise Fergus has campaigned for justice for her boy

No it wasn’t - poor little lad. His mum has had to be so strong. I hope he knows how much she loves him.

[Kazanne]

No it wasn’t - poor little lad. His mum has had to be so strong. I hope he knows how much she loves him.

I do admire Denise the way she has campaigned all these years ,she at least deserves Justice but doubt she will get it.

[jaxie]

It was harrowing stuff. Shocking to hear such young voices talking about killing,

[Kazanne]

Just on the news Venables sentenced to 3 years for indecent pictures of children and a paedophile manual !!!! wtf is all that about, 3 years is laughable he will be out in half of that.

[bots]

Just on the news Venables sentenced to 3 years for indecent pictures of children and a paedophile manual !!!! wtf is all that about, 3 years is laughable he will be out in half of that.

i honestly don't know what's going on with this. Was he not released on license for the original crime of murder? In which case future offences must violate those license terms? He is being protected in my opinion, and I have no idea why.

[Kazanne]

i honestly don't know what's going on with this. Was he not released on license for the original crime of murder? In which case future offences must violate those license terms? He is being protected in my opinion, and I have no idea why.

Yes Bots, we were PROMISED that If he reoffended he would go straight back to prison and do the time he should have done for killing James,he has been arrested for drugs and fighting previously which should have been enough to send him back to prison before he got arrested the first time for the downloading child images,then he wouldn't have had chance to do it a second time !! it's a farce , I just don't get the mindset of some judges ,he is a danger to kids,ffs lock him up for life.:fist:


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jon-venables-james-bulger-killer-sentenced-to-40-months-for-possessing-indecent-images-of-children-for-second-time/ar-BBINWhf?ocid=spartandhp

[joeysteele]

Just on the news Venables sentenced to 3 years for indecent pictures of children and a paedophile manual !!!! wtf is all that about, 3 years is laughable he will be out in half of that.

I thought that.
Honestly it's a disgrace
With likely another new identity too.

I really understand and support your fury as to this.
Thinking of again too,less than 2 years ahead,his Mother and dad getting more pain thrust at.them again.

Since I doubt,it won't be long before he is in bother again.

[Vicky.]

Just on the news Venables sentenced to 3 years for indecent pictures of children and a paedophile manual !!!! wtf is all that about, 3 years is laughable he will be out in half of that.

Its just awful. of justice system is ridiculous.

[Cherie]

Just on the news Venables sentenced to 3 years for indecent pictures of children and a paedophile manual !!!! wtf is all that about, 3 years is laughable he will be out in half of that.

You don't get those in W H Smiths, just goes to show he is part of a group, disgusting pig should be locked away for good

[Garfie]

He is a child murderer whose actions indicate that either he cannot control his dangerous urges or that he is willing to act on them. Twice in recent years he has been caught with indecent images of children, and this time with a paedophile manual describing how to satisfy those urges.

How long before he acts on those urges?

Venables clearly poses a serious danger to children and 30 months is a joke as well as an insult to both James and the Bulger family.

Is it only when he commits another crime in which he seriously harms another child that appropriate action will be taken?

[hijaxers]

Yes Bots, we were PROMISED that If he reoffended he would go straight back to prison and do the time he should have done for killing James,he has been arrested for drugs and fighting previously which should have been enough to send him back to prison before he got arrested the first time for the downloading child images,then he wouldn't have had chance to do it a second time !! it's a farce , I just don't get the mindset of some judges ,he is a danger to kids,ffs lock him up for life.:fist:


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jon-venables-james-bulger-killer-sentenced-to-40-months-for-possessing-indecent-images-of-children-for-second-time/ar-BBINWhf?ocid=spartandhp

I just heard on news that even his own father wants him named as he is a danger to others!

[Cal.]

Scum. Scum. Scum.

Waste of space.

Denise Fergus is an amazing lady. She would have been the perfect candidate for this series of CBB which was all about celebrating women (in a similar vein as Maggie Oliver) because she is the definition of a strong woman.

[Jamie89]

Just on the news Venables sentenced to 3 years for indecent pictures of children and a paedophile manual !!!! wtf is all that about, 3 years is laughable he will be out in half of that.

Yeah I heard about this, this really stood out to me from the article I read...

Mr Justice Edis said possessing the manual suggested Venables was "at least contemplating the possibility" of committing an actual sexual crime against children
A report found Venables was a "high risk of real harm to children" in the future, the court was told.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42972085

I don't understand how someone who is considered in this way ^ (never mind the fact he is an actual child torturer and murderer!) can gets 3 years it's absolutely sickening. And some of the images he had weren't just indecent they were of actual abuse and some of them were of babies. It's just beyond belief, I don't know the inner workings of the justice system and sentencing etc but it seems absolutely insane.

[jaxie]

I think the light sentence he was given is very worrying. Particularly with the evidence about the paedophile manual. Surely that is strong evidence of intent to act on it?

He has been cautioned, called back to prison about 4 times now, one for drug abuse which could also be a dangerous factor. He clearly isn't normal in his leanings towards children and has already killed. Why isn't he in a secure hospital or in prison indefinitely?

What if he gets into a position where he can do it again? This desire to rehabilitate him at any cost is putting a child at real risk.

[bots]

I think the light sentence he was given is very worrying. Particularly with the evidence about the paedophile manual. Surely that is strong evidence of intent to act on it?

He has been cautioned, called back to prison about 4 times now, one for drug abuse which could also be a dangerous factor. He clearly isn't normal in his leanings towards children and has already killed. Why isn't he in a secure hospital or in prison indefinitely?

What if he gets into a position where he can do it again?

my only hope is that prisoners are able to get to him in prison before he gets out. His photo was made available for a period of time, so it should be possible to identify him

[jaxie]

my only hope is that prisoners are able to get to him in prison before he gets out. His photo was made available for a period of time, so it should be possible to identify him

It's quite creepy to think that you might be living next door to him and never know. I didn't see the image when it was out there.

[joeysteele]

Yeah I heard about this, this really stood out to me from the article I read...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42972085

I don't understand how someone who is considered in this way ^ (never mind the fact he is an actual child torturer and murderer!) can gets 3 years it's absolutely sickening. And some of the images he had weren't just indecent they were of actual abuse and some of them were of babies. It's just beyond belief, I don't know the inner workings of the justice system and sentencing etc but it seems absolutely insane.


.... and this new 3 year term comes after another 2 year term applied a few years back too.

Sometimes the law is grossly unfair.
Even the judge here termed Venables a liar and manipulative.
It's beyond belief.

Changes need to come to ensure he cannot harm anyone again.
He's now in his mid 30s and it would appear has learned next to nothing and not changed.

Honestly on this case,member Kazanne,who has a massive knowledge as to little James.
Is dead right, this guy should never have been and ought not be now released back into society.

Anytime he is out,even with the supervision in place,in my opinion,there is still the massive potential danger to another child or even more than one..
That's a disgrace and totally disturbing.

[Kazanne]

my only hope is that prisoners are able to get to him in prison before he gets out. His photo was made available for a period of time, so it should be possible to identify him

Our thoughts too Bots ,I have his picture ,I have not posted it as yet but I am so ,so tempted,he also said he " had urges" so what the hell are the probation board thinking about by just giving him 40 months? it's insane,it really is.

[RileyH]

I remember reading his story a couple of years ago and I've remembered it since, so sad </3

[Matthew.]

Denise Fergus is an amazing lady. She would have been the perfect candidate for this series of CBB which was all about celebrating women (in a similar vein as Maggie Oliver) because she is the definition of a strong woman.

was thinking about this earlier, same with Sara Rowbotham among others. I think she was probably asked, but I don’t think she would say yes to it, particularly with the 25th anniversary coming up.

Jon Venables’ identity should be made public because he is clearly a danger to society. So parents can know what he looks like, what his name is. I signed a petition earlier on for a public enquiry to be made into the murder of James Bulger. It had already reached 100k signatures and we are waiting less than 24 hours for a date that it will be debated in parliament.

I watched the STV doc on it last night, it was hard to watch, especially some of the descriptions of how they tortured James, I won’t include them in this post as idk if that would be breaking any rule on this site as some of them made me feel sick

https://t.co/lgLiwr0Dqh

[Beso]

Hopefully some prisoners will join the dots.

[Cherie]

The fact that they got 8 years initially was criminal in itself, it seems like someone decided they didn't want to go to the bother of transferring them to adult prison

[Livia]

The problem with sentencing people like him is that there is a group of people who would rather understand him. I did watch the programme, harrowing as it was. Denise was brilliant, so strong... but right at the kick off there was someone on there claiming that a ten year old doesn't fully know what he's doing or we would have 10 year olds serving on juries... which is quite the most ridiculous comment to come out of the WHOLE programme.

I agree with Kazanne... they should have served their sentence in a juvenile centre until they were old enough to be thrown in the pokey, for a decent sentence fitting the crime.

[Northern Monkey]

Those two little ****ers should’ve never seen daylight again.

[Kazanne]

The problem with sentencing people like him is that there is a group of people who would rather understand him. I did watch the programme, harrowing as it was. Denise was brilliant, so strong... but right at the kick off there was someone on there claiming that a ten year old doesn't fully know what he's doing or we would have 10 year olds serving on juries... which is quite the most ridiculous comment to come out of the WHOLE programme.

I agree with Kazanne... they should have served their sentence in a juvenile centre until they were old enough to be thrown in the pokey, for a decent sentence fitting the crime.

Yes that was Blake Morrison I think, I am really effing annoyed that the do gooders keep coming out with this rubbish,why would they try and cover it up if they didn't know what they were doing,they knew full well and planned it even told someone who saw James in distress that he was their little brother,time now for Venables at least to spend time with the big boys,but I suppose he will get all the help he needs.:rant:

[Livia]

Yes that was Blake Morrison I think, I am really effing annoyed that the do gooders keep coming out with this rubbish,why would they try and cover it up if they didn't know what they were doing,they knew full well and planned it even told someone who saw James in distress that he was their little brother,time now for Venables at least to spend time with the big boys,but I suppose he will get all the help he needs.:rant:

I thought, while listening to the tapes of the interviews, that they quite clearly knew they'd done wrong. Otherwise they wouldn't have blamed each other. And they were fairly bright, they didn't seem to have special needs or a difficulty understanding.

You know who I'm still thinking about? Apart from Denise... is the woman who stopped them, and her little girl took Jamie's hand. I'm not a weeper, but I admit I had a tear. To think she was that close to saving him from such an horrific end must haunt her every day.

[Kazanne]

I thought, while listening to the tapes of the interviews, that they quite clearly knew they'd done wrong. Otherwise they wouldn't have blamed each other. And they were fairly bright, they didn't seem to have special needs or a difficulty understanding.

You know who I'm still thinking about? Apart from Denise... is the woman who stopped them, and her little girl took Jamie's hand. I'm not a weeper, but I admit I had a tear. To think she was that close to saving him from such an horrific end must haunt her every day.

Yes she must feel awful,there were a few that day that could have stepped in,but I suppose you never think that kids could be so evil , but they must think about it a lot.Those scumbags even wanted to push him into the road and the canal,I really don't know how his parents have coped,I don't think I could.

[Cherie]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grenfell-tower-conman-anh-nhu-nguyen-jailed-fraud-victims-fund-claim-relatives-lost-lied-southwark-a8202901.html

21 months for this guy, while a horrible crime who did he hurt or want to hurt...no one

[Cherie]

I thought, while listening to the tapes of the interviews, that they quite clearly knew they'd done wrong. Otherwise they wouldn't have blamed each other. And they were fairly bright, they didn't seem to have special needs or a difficulty understanding.

You know who I'm still thinking about? Apart from Denise... is the woman who stopped them, and her little girl took Jamie's hand. I'm not a weeper, but I admit I had a tear. To think she was that close to saving him from such an horrific end must haunt her every day.


I found that odd, he was a young baby and she trusted them to take him to the police station, not to the point that they wouldn't do it but because they were so young as well

[Kazanne]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/grenfell-tower-conman-anh-nhu-nguyen-jailed-fraud-victims-fund-claim-relatives-lost-lied-southwark-a8202901.html

21 months for this guy, while a horrible crime who did he hurt or want to hurt...no one

Isn't the law an ass,Venables will be out in that time and look what he has done .:fist:

[user104658]

Honestly I think it's very complex and it may well be the case that those two boys were always irredemably violent and dangerous, but I still have to disagree that they should have been tried or sentenced as adults at 10 years old. Not because of the specifics of that case - but because the idea that we should EVER start convicting children of crimes as if they were adults is a really horrendous road to go down.

That said, as an adult Venables at least has at this point surely proven beyond a doubt that he is, for whatever reason, a permanently dangerous individual and its ridiculous that he is repeatedly in and out with these light sentences. It should have been a condition of their initial release that ANY violent / sexual or similar criminal activity after release would result in immediately returning to prison to serve a full adult life term for the original murder.

[LaLaLand]

No, not at all. That program on C4 the other night left a bad taste in my mouth, was like they were trying to get us to sympathise with the killers. Absolutely awful and I'm glad it's had such a backlash.

Venables should be stripped of his anonymity now and jailed for good, he's clearly a danger and something major waiting to happen (again).

Every time he's back in the press James' poor mother has to relive everything all over again and it's so cruel, she's never found nor never will find peace with it with their protection, like she says they were basically rewarded. Just lock him away and have him never mentioned again.

[joeysteele]

Honestly I think it's very complex and it may well be the case that those two boys were always irredemably violent and dangerous, but I still have to disagree that they should have been tried or sentenced as adults at 10 years old. Not because of the specifics of that case - but because the idea that we should EVER start convicting children of crimes as if they were adults is a really horrendous road to go down.

That said, as an adult Venables at least has at this point surely proven beyond a doubt that he is, for whatever reason, a permanently dangerous individual and its ridiculous that he is repeatedly in and out with these light sentences. It should have been a condition of their initial release that ANY violent / sexual or similar criminal activity after release would result in immediately returning to prison to serve a full adult life term for the original murder.


Yes,this for me too.as to the last paragraph.
Always a conditional release.

This was discussed on question time last night too.
With some feeling Venables should be told on his next release,any further issues and his anonymity will be removed.

It's a truly horrible heartbreaking tragedy this.

The tapes were mentioned above,I was sickened on those tapes when one of them stated while pelting him with stones,that he wouldn't stay down and kept getting up.

They knew what they were doing for sure, despicable.

[LaLaLand]

Sign this btw, it's already surpassed 100K but the more it exceeds the limit the more likely something may (just may) be done.

"We want a Public Inquiry into the James Bulger murder case.

Throughout the conduct of the case there have been a number of issues that have been swept under the carpet. It's high time they were investigated."

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/206851

[Cherie]

No, not at all. That program on C4 the other night left a bad taste in my mouth, was like they were trying to get us to sympathise with the killers. Absolutely awful and I'm glad it's had such a backlash.

Venables should be stripped of his anonymity now and jailed for good, he's clearly a danger and something major waiting to happen (again).

Every time he's back in the press James' poor mother has to relive everything all over again and it's so cruel, she's never found nor never will find peace with it with their protection, like she says they were basically rewarded. Just lock him away and have him never mentioned again.

.

Honestly I think it's very complex and it may well be the case that those two boys were always irredemably violent and dangerous, but I still have to disagree that they should have been tried or sentenced as adults at 10 years old. Not because of the specifics of that case - but because the idea that we should EVER start convicting children of crimes as if they were adults is a really horrendous road to go down.

That said, as an adult Venables at least has at this point surely proven beyond a doubt that he is, for whatever reason, a permanently dangerous individual and its ridiculous that he is repeatedly in and out with these light sentences. It should have been a condition of their initial release that ANY violent / sexual or similar criminal activity after release would result in immediately returning to prison to serve a full adult life term for the original murder.

I still think 8 years which was the maximum they could receive in juvenile prison was too short

[user104658]

.



I still think 8 years which was the maximum they could receive in juvenile prison was too short

I do actually agree with that given their age at the time of it (nearly teenagers), to be honest the most appropriate sentence would probably have been 8 years juvenile followed by an indefinite term of at least 10 years in a secure psychiatric facility... extending all the way up to "permanent" if never deemed safe to release. My feeling is that Venables would probably never have been released at all... He has demonstrated that he is still a serious risk to the public, multiple times now.

[jaxie]

I did read one article that claims James was sexually assaulted which is particularly surprising in view of their ages. I've never heard that before. Has anyone else heard that?

[LaLaLand]

I did read one article that claims James was sexually assaulted which is particularly surprising in view of their ages. I've never heard that before. Has anyone else heard that?

Police suspected that there was a sexual element to the crime, since Bulger's shoes, socks, trousers and underpants had been removed. The pathologist's report, which was read out in court, found that Bulger's foreskin had been forcibly retracted. When Thompson and Venables were questioned about this aspect of the attack by detectives and a child psychiatrist, Dr Eileen Vizard, Thompson and Venables were reluctant to give details; they also denied inserting some of the batteries into Bulger's anus. At his eventual parole, Venables's psychiatrist, Dr Susan Bailey, reported that "visiting and revisiting the issue with Jon as a child, and now as an adolescent, he gives no account of any sexual element to the offence.

From Wiki ^ So awful.

[jaxie]

From Wiki ^ So awful.

I didn't know any of that Jonnii but again it opens the question why aren't they taking Venables interest in children more seriously?

But then they killed him, why I am surprised by the additional horror of it?

[user104658]

There were elements that would be considered sexual assault (listed above) but its unlikely that the actual motivation was sexual excitement or gratification. Essentially, it's cruelty and curiosity combined with a lack of empathy.

Venables interest in child pornography now, if I had to guess, is actually the result of what is essentially psychological trauma. I have to be quick to add here (because I know that people won't like terms like that being used, and feel that it's making excuses) that when I say he's traumatised I don't mean that it's an excuse or even that there should be any sympathy for him; I'm talking in purely psychological terms here.

But yes... Basically, I still firmly believe that Thomson is sociopathic, completely, and all accounts of his behaviour back that up. Venables on the other hand, I think was more lead into it at the time (although obviously a willing participant) but has essentially been left psychologically broken by his crime.

Again ; not making excuses, he is clearly a highly dangerous individual.

[jaxie]

There were elements that would be considered sexual assault (listed above) but its unlikely that the actual motivation was sexual excitement or gratification. Essentially, it's cruelty and curiosity combined with a lack of empathy.

Venables interest in child pornography now, if I had to guess, is actually the result of what is essentially psychological trauma. I have to be quick to add here (because I know that people won't like terms like that being used, and feel that it's making excuses) that when I say he's traumatised I don't mean that it's an excuse or even that there should be any sympathy for him; I'm talking in purely psychological terms here.

But yes... Basically, I still firmly believe that Thomson is sociopathic, completely, and all accounts of his behaviour back that up. Venables on the other hand, I think was more lead into it at the time (although obviously a willing participant) but has essentially been left psychologically broken by his crime.

Again ; not making excuses, he is clearly a highly dangerous individual.

I was talking to a friend of mine about the case recently and she seemed to feel that Venables repeated convictions might be more a case of trying to recapture the thrill of it all for gratification in the images he is looking at and the material he is seeking out. A very different perspective to your suggestion and hard I think to say which is more accurate.

The more you read the more you realise how truly terrible what they did to that baby was, it was much more than brick throwing and beating and I find it very hard to accept the idea that either was not a more than willing participant.

[Kazanne]

Crime and Punishments is on ITV now on how America deals with child crime.so different to over here,this should be interesting.