Gollywog pub The White Hart take stand against PC brigade?

[Crimson Dynamo]

My golliwogs are here to stay, insists pub landlord despite complaints to council and police that keeping them on display behind
the bar is a hate crime


Investigation is launched after anonymous complaint about the White Hart pub
Chris Ryley and wife Benice face a nervous wait to see if their licence is revoked
The pub in Grays, Essex, has 15 golliwogs of various sizes in full view behind bar
Mr Ryley said he is proud of his pub's welcoming attitude to people of all races


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/13/09/4928C42C00000578-5384909-image-a-1_1518513826976.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/13/09/4928C54100000578-5384909-image-a-2_1518513873418.jpg

A pub landlord has refused to remove 15 golliwogs from behind his bar despite an investigation being launched into the controversial rag dolls.

Chris Ryley and his wife Benice said they were left reeling after the council received an anonymous complaint about the White Hart pub in Grays, Essex.

The couple face a nervous wait to see if their licence will be effected but have also promised not to back down after receiving the dolls as gifts from customers.

They are unaware of who made the cowardly anonymous complaint but believe it was an employee from Thurrock Council who popped in for lunch.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/13/09/4928C50800000578-5384909-image-a-3_1518513898567.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/13/09/4928C53000000578-5384909-image-a-5_1518513906467.jpg

One was from a Canadian lady who said "those would not be allowed back in my country" and another was from an English woman who insisted they were racist, despite no-one else in the pub agreeing with her, including a black man who was drinking in here at the time.

'It's all about political correctness isn't it? Children can't play conkers anymore or have snowball fights in case they are hurt.

'The council has enough things to be getting on with, rather than worrying about this. The golliwogs are staying up.

'If the customers start complaining, that would change my mind but it is our customers who brought most of them here for us as presents.

'My phone has been full of messages of support from customers saying "Save the golliwogs".


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5384909/My-golliwogs-say-insists-pub-landlord.html


Would you drink in this pub or are you outraged by this?

[thesheriff443]

A golliwog driving licence, is taking the piss

[bots]

Without knowing them, its difficult to say if they are racist or not, but in this day and age to display that stuff makes me think that they are racists sticking 2 fingers up at society. The flags outside the pub also imply some nationalist affiliation

[Crimson Dynamo]

Without knowing them, its difficult to say if they are racist or not, but in this day and age to display that stuff makes me think that they are racists sticking 2 fingers up at society. The flags outside the pub also imply some nationalist affiliation

What the flag of Britain?

:joker:

[bots]

What the flag of Britain?

:joker:

don't be silly LT you know fine well, that the union jack is used by nationalists to identify themselves. Fine and well when there is some sort of celebration or anniversary but it's not difficult to see what this couple are up to.

[Jamie89]

I wouldn't drink there, they have racist connotations whether it's intended or not, and if I walked in a pub that had a row of black caricature dolls hanging above the bar then yeah I'd feel uncomfortable. And it's not an example of 'PC brigade' to me, it's quite widely considered nowadays that they have racist connotations, I get that they didn't used to be seen like that and I'm sure a lot of people who have them aren't racist, but sometimes you just have to accept that times have changed. You have to question why they are so desperate to keep the dolls, if it's something that doesn't have meaning why risk losing their license over them.

Without knowing them, its difficult to say if they are racist or not, but in this day and age to display that stuff makes me think that they are racists sticking 2 fingers up at society. The flags outside the pub also imply some nationalist affiliation

The name of the pub doesn't do them any favours either :laugh:

[Oliver_W]

don't be silly LT you know fine well, that the union jack is used by nationalists to identify themselves. Fine and well when there is some sort of celebration or anniversary but it's not difficult to see what this couple are up to.

... It's the flag of Britain. It can be used by anyone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

don't be silly LT you know fine well, that the union jack is used by nationalists to identify themselves. Fine and well when there is some sort of celebration or anniversary but it's not difficult to see what this couple are up to.

And its used by the Queen, our armed services and every corporation in the land. Its great to see them flying it with pride

[Marches]

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WPK3MepWBK0/Vw1C5YCGWBI/AAAAAAAABs4/Zg067TPQM3wQd3bR_WCtp7DRlS-aMUimgCLcB/s1600/anita%2Beverything.gif

[Crimson Dynamo]

They should say all the gollywogs are gay and the white one is trans


Then the council would be in a pickle

:hehe:

[Beso]

Hehe....one of my locals in grays.

[Livia]

I had a golly when I was a kid, that used to be my Mum's. I thought it was a creature, like a fairy or a goblin. I had no idea it was anything to do with black people because none of the black people I knew looked like that.

[Toy Soldier]

Oh come on. If we're going to call a spade a spade let's do it across the board; they know fine well that gollywogs are seen as racist, that's why they have them displayed there. Are they personally racist? I don't know. But it is plainly obvious that their decorations are a deliberate and petty "two fingers up at PC gern meeerd" and the idea that they're just an innocent decoration is nonsense.

I mean why. Why would they have the place decorated with gollywogs.

[Tom4784]

They run a business and Golliwogs whether they like it or not are considered racist caricatures of black people. If they want to put them up in a private setting then they are free to do so but businesses run by different rules and such decorations in such a blatant fashion is going to run afoul of discrimination laws.

If the decor was inspired by 70's/80's nostalgia then I could understand maybe having one as representative of the era but that many? That's just ridiculous.

[Marches]

Some people are probably offended by pianos if their mother was murdered by being crushed by one, shall we ban pianos? He can do as he wishes with his business within reason and People can visit their business or not as they chose. I understand the connotations but I feel like if they were to be taken down because a few people complain it sets a bad precedent

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh come on. If we're going to call a spade a spade let's do it across the board; they know fine well that gollywogs are seen as racist, that's why they have them displayed there. Are they personally racist? I don't know. But it is plainly obvious that their decorations are a deliberate and petty "two fingers up at PC gern meeerd" and the idea that they're just an innocent decoration is nonsense.

I mean why. Why would they have the place decorated with gollywogs.

I expect they have been up there long before it became PC to be outraged by them

[Toy Soldier]

I expect they have been up there long before it became PC to be outraged by themGollywogs have been considered unacceptably racist for decades.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Gollywogs have been considered unacceptably racist for decades.

by who?

[Toy Soldier]

by who?Well not you, apparently, but by most people with common sense who aren't preoccupied with making some sort of point about supposed censorship.

[Marches]

Well not you, apparently, but by most people with common sense who aren't preoccupied with making some sort of point about supposed censorship.

Are you for censorship then?

[Toy Soldier]

Honestly though. Anyone who is trying to claim that there isn't any issue with a big bald tattooed white bloke, with a pub called "The White Hart", choosing to decorate it with other one or two but FIFTEEN dolls which specifically exaggerate the physical features of black people for caricature / comic effect...

Either lying or stupid. Take your pick I guess :shrug:

[Toy Soldier]

Are you for censorship then?I think banning businesses from decorating with hordes of gollywog dolls is not really an issue of censorship, and I think anyone who has a major issue with such a ban probably has some sort of chip on their shoulder surrounding the issue, and might want to think about the reasons for that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well not you, apparently, but by most people with common sense who aren't preoccupied with making some sort of point about supposed censorship.

If the dolls are period then i dont see the issue


I cant imagine any black person being offended legitimately so seems like a charming decoration of a bygone age. I have sold quite a few Jolly Negro coin banks in my time, very popular they are

here is one for sale on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Sheppards-Hardware-or-Harper-1882-Cast-Iron-Jolly-N-gg-Coin-Money-Bank/162889489991?hash=item25ecf85e47:g:tO8AAOSwPypaeZT s

[Tom4784]

If the dolls are period then i dont see the issue


I cant imagine any black person being offended legitimately so seems like a charming decoration of a bygone age. I have sold quite a few Jolly Negro coin banks in my time, very popular they are

here is one for sale on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Sheppards-Hardware-or-Harper-1882-Cast-Iron-Jolly-N-gg-Coin-Money-Bank/162889489991?hash=item25ecf85e47:g:tO8AAOSwPypaeZT s

That's ****ing terrifying wtf.

[Marches]

I think banning businesses from decorating with hordes of gollywog dolls is not really an issue of censorship, and I think anyone who has a major issue with such a ban probably has some sort of chip on their shoulder surrounding the issue, and might want to think about the reasons for that.

Intriguing you’re implying I’m racist, but no I have no such thoughts I just hate the political correctness line of thought :shrug:

[arista]

They need to go on TV news
to justify their dolls
from the long past

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder if they make celebration cakes?

:think:

[Toy Soldier]

If the dolls are period then i dont see the issue


I cant imagine any black person being offended legitimately so seems like a charming decoration of a bygone age. I have sold quite a few Jolly Negro coin banks in my time, very popular they are

here is one for sale on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Sheppards-Hardware-or-Harper-1882-Cast-Iron-Jolly-N-gg-Coin-Money-Bank/162889489991?hash=item25ecf85e47:g:tO8AAOSwPypaeZT sOne or two as part of decoration reflecting a particular period, sure. 15 of them hung around the bar is deliberately trying to make some sort of point. It has to be. I refuse to believe that anyone is just THAT bad at decorating their pub.

"Hey we need more decorations what will we get?"

"Yet another gollywog?"

"Yes excellent."



I also see no indication anywhere else in their decor that it's a deliberate era-based theme. It looks like a Wetherspoons with gollywogs nailed to the walls ffs.

[thesheriff443]

They run a business and Golliwogs whether they like it or not are considered racist caricatures of black people. If they want to put them up in a private setting then they are free to do so but businesses run by different rules and such decorations in such a blatant fashion is going to run afoul of discrimination laws.

If the decor was inspired by 70's/80's nostalgia then I could understand maybe having one as representative of the era but that many? That's just ridiculous.

I agree entirely.

[Northern Monkey]

I had a golly when I was a kid, that used to be my Mum's. I thought it was a creature, like a fairy or a goblin. I had no idea it was anything to do with black people because none of the black people I knew looked like that.

Yeah i remember playing with one whenever I visited my grandparents.

But yeah,These days they need to keep em in the back.The regulars aren’t bothered by them but If they get any of those non-local city folk in they might cause offence.

[Northern Monkey]

One or two as part of decoration reflecting a particular period, sure. 15 of them hung around the bar is deliberately trying to make some sort of point. It has to be. I refuse to believe that anyone is just THAT bad at decorating their pub.

"Hey we need more decorations what will we get?"

"Yet another gollywog?"

"Yes excellent."



I also see no indication anywhere else in their decor that it's a deliberate era-based theme. It looks like a Wetherspoons with gollywogs nailed to the walls ffs.
:joker:

[Northern Monkey]

I wonder if they make celebration cakes?

:think:

Never seen a Gollywog celebration cake.What could it be celebrating?

[Toy Soldier]

Racial issues aside, a jet black cake is always a bad idea, as it will stain your mouth the colour that the black was made from (usually very dark blue). No gollywog cakes.

[montblanc]

even if these dolls' origins aren't racist the black ones look like the racist black stereotypes from back in the day so they shouldn't have them on display like that imo

[montblanc]

They run a business and Golliwogs whether they like it or not are considered racist caricatures of black people. If they want to put them up in a private setting then they are free to do so but businesses run by different rules and such decorations in such a blatant fashion is going to run afoul of discrimination laws.

If the decor was inspired by 70's/80's nostalgia then I could understand maybe having one as representative of the era but that many? That's just ridiculous.

:clap1:

[jaxie]

I had a golly when I was a kid, that used to be my Mum's. I thought it was a creature, like a fairy or a goblin. I had no idea it was anything to do with black people because none of the black people I knew looked like that.

Co-incidentally I was given one too that had belonged to a family member and I -loved- it. It was a favourite cuddle. I didn't think it was like a person just a toy like a teddy bear. Then someone pointed out the not pc element it was taken away from me. I was really small, didn't understand and was quite upset at the loss. I remember asking an asking for it as a kid. But now as an adult I can see why people would find it offensive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I used to collect gollywog labels from Robinsons jam as you could send away for an enamel badge

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1505000/images/_1505411_label300.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://fisherbelfast.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/golliwog-pc-capture.jpg

[bots]

I used to collect gollywog labels from Robinsons jam as you could send away for an enamel badge

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1505000/images/_1505411_label300.jpg

me too, and there was a book we got at school that was part of the school curriculum in primary, but that doesn't make it right

[Withano]

I think implying that only "the PC brigade" are offended by gollywogs is an insult to all of the country (apart from that bloke and LT apparently).

[Alf]

I don't care who's offended, that's their problem, not mine. You'll just have to become an adult, and learn to deal with your thin skin.

[Marches]

Racial issues aside, a jet black cake is always a bad idea, as it will stain your mouth the colour that the black was made from (usually very dark blue). No gollywog cakes.

Racist trash bet ur perfectly ok stuffing ur face with white cakes

See we can make anything racist

[GoldHeart]

Gollywogs still exist and usually in seaside shops strangely enough ,
So you can't get rid of of gollywogs entirely .
What i find weird is the way they're in this pub and displayed .

Gollywogs will always have racist undertones . But if you own them it doesn't necessarily mean you're racist, which i think some people get confused by .
Some dislike them because of the negative imagery ,and the resemblance to the minstrels .

They're still apart of people's childhood , they're odd looking caricatures that i personally have no interest in buying .

This explains the origin better
http://www.historyofdolls.com/history-of-famous-dolls/history-of-golliwog/

[Kizzy]

Yeah i remember playing with one whenever I visited my grandparents.

But yeah,These days they need to keep em in the back.The regulars aren’t bothered by them but If they get any of those non-local city folk in they might cause offence.

:joker::joker::joker:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/tv/2017/12/17/TELEMMGLPICT000148383381_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqqVzuuqp FlyLIwiB6NTmJwf4ezdwJrdG0jiv207tgCTY.jpeg?imwidth= 450

[Beso]

Honestly though. Anyone who is trying to claim that there isn't any issue with a big bald tattooed white bloke, with a pub called "The White Hart", choosing to decorate it with other one or two but FIFTEEN dolls which specifically exaggerate the physical features of black people for caricature / comic effect...

Either lying or stupid. Take your pick I guess :shrug:

Whatever he is, he has been nothing but polite and helpful when ive been in.

[Withano]

Whatever he is, he has been nothing but polite and helpful when ive been in.

Maybe cos he assumed you was a racist like him and the rest of the customers, and he wanted your money?

[Maru]

There's more evidence of racism towards this man than evidence of racism I think based on the article. He's had conversations with his patrons about it, and he's not been aggressive or unwelcoming towards people about it seems. He's welcoming a dialogue. That's quite profound. Maybe he's advertising his freedom of speech here by putting up a dozen dolls, but this doesn't automatically mean "oh he's intentionally being offensive!"... there are people who bring up race and bigotry every chance they get... but they can see beyond race right? That doesn't wash. Could easily be interpreted as a counter demonstration to quite a common dialogue in society.

If he were an actual racist, they would be hidden in the back room or he'd be very defensive and discourteous towards folk who questioned him about it. Change his skin color, if this were a black person... and they had Black Power dolls/posters everywhere or something. Which some people do put up when they have organizations or meetings, etc. Some of the same folk would say it's "empowerment" or "freedom of speech" or sharing "their roots"...

TLDR; My point is, none of us can definitively say we know what his intent is. But to automatically go for the worst conclusion on the basis of the color of his skin, his appearance(s) and the items in his bar actually in itself is a racist conclusion.

[Beso]

Maybe cos he assumed you was a racist like him and the rest of the customers, and he wanted your money?

:joker:


Maybe you could say that seeing as gollywogs are loved, cuddled and generally associated with happiness, denying this lovely man. As that is how i can only judge him. Denying him the right to show off a historic toy as popular as teddy bears like the gollywog is tantamount to racism itself...so maybe you are the racist cause you are seeing a cuddly toy as something nasty simply because its black.

[smudgie]

My problem with it is people still calling it gollywog, golly would suffice.
My daughter wanted one years back and I had no problem buying her one.
I think at the time there had been a surge in their popularity.:shrug:

[Cherie]

There's more evidence of racism towards this man than evidence of racism I think based on the article. He's had conversations with his patrons about it, and he's not been aggressive or unwelcoming towards people about it seems. He's welcoming a dialogue. That's quite profound. Maybe he's advertising his freedom of speech here by putting up a dozen dolls, but this doesn't automatically mean "oh he's intentionally being offensive!"... there are people who bring up race and bigotry every chance they get... but they can see beyond race right? That doesn't wash. Could easily be interpreted as a counter demonstration to quite a common dialogue in society.

If he were an actual racist, they would be hidden in the back room or he'd be very defensive and discourteous towards folk who questioned him about it. Change his skin color, if this were a black person... and they had Black Power dolls/posters everywhere or something. Which some people do put up when they have organizations or meetings, etc. Some of the same folk would say it's "empowerment" or "freedom of speech" or sharing "their roots"...

TLDR; My point is, none of us can definitively say we know what his intent is. But to automatically go for the worst conclusion on the basis of the color of his skin, his appearance(s) and the items in his bar actually in itself is a racist conclusion.

100% Maru :clap1:

[Brillopad]

There's more evidence of racism towards this man than evidence of racism I think based on the article. He's had conversations with his patrons about it, and he's not been aggressive or unwelcoming towards people about it seems. He's welcoming a dialogue. That's quite profound. Maybe he's advertising his freedom of speech here by putting up a dozen dolls, but this doesn't automatically mean "oh he's intentionally being offensive!"... there are people who bring up race and bigotry every chance they get... but they can see beyond race right? That doesn't wash. Could easily be interpreted as a counter demonstration to quite a common dialogue in society.

If he were an actual racist, they would be hidden in the back room or he'd be very defensive and discourteous towards folk who questioned him about it. Change his skin color, if this were a black person... and they had Black Power dolls/posters everywhere or something. Which some people do put up when they have organizations or meetings, etc. Some of the same folk would say it's "empowerment" or "freedom of speech" or sharing "their roots"...

TLDR; My point is, none of us can definitively say we know what his intent is. But to automatically go for the worst conclusion on the basis of the color of his skin, his appearance(s) and the items in his bar actually in itself is a racist conclusion.

Good post!

[Vicky.]

The name of the pub doesn't do them any favours either :laugh:

:D
I expect they have been up there long before it became PC to be outraged by them

It says they have had them up for 3 years.

I am not that up to date on gollys tbf, but I am fairly sure that they have been considered offensive for a lot longer than that so its not even a case of..they have been part of the decor since the place opened and its a nostalgia thing.

[Toy Soldier]

There's more evidence of racism towards this man than evidence of racism I think based on the article. He's had conversations with his patrons about it, and he's not been aggressive or unwelcoming towards people about it seems. He's welcoming a dialogue. That's quite profound. Maybe he's advertising his freedom of speech here by putting up a dozen dolls, but this doesn't automatically mean "oh he's intentionally being offensive!"... there are people who bring up race and bigotry every chance they get... but they can see beyond race right? That doesn't wash. Could easily be interpreted as a counter demonstration to quite a common dialogue in society.

If he were an actual racist, they would be hidden in the back room or he'd be very defensive and discourteous towards folk who questioned him about it. Change his skin color, if this were a black person... and they had Black Power dolls/posters everywhere or something. Which some people do put up when they have organizations or meetings, etc. Some of the same folk would say it's "empowerment" or "freedom of speech" or sharing "their roots"...

TLDR; My point is, none of us can definitively say we know what his intent is. But to automatically go for the worst conclusion on the basis of the color of his skin, his appearance(s) and the items in his bar actually in itself is a racist conclusion.

Perhaps not but... and I don't mean to be, err... country-ist here but I suspect you're speaking from a mostly theoretical standpoint here, and not from the standpoint of someone who has been in dozens of similar pubs / bars (the kind that fly two great big flags outside and have point-making props decorating the bar) and know with some degree of accuracy exactly what the general "vibe" of places like this is. Which would be "nationalistic and xenophobic", mostly... certainly far more than being any sort of true champions of free speech. Again I would happily assume with SOME certainty that the "free speech" that is welcome in this bar, is limited to the "free speech" that the owner happens to agree with... and any other contrary "free speech" would be made very unwelcome.

Again, no, obviously can't say this for 100% certain as I haven't been in this specific bar... but I'm damn sure I've been in a tonne that are virtually indistinguishable from it. Minus the Golliwogs, of course. That part's actually quite unique. Weird and passive aggressive as ****, but unique.

[Maru]

Perhaps not but... and I don't mean to be, err... country-ist here but I suspect you're speaking from a mostly theoretical standpoint here, and not from the standpoint of someone who has been in dozens of similar pubs / bars (the kind that fly two great big flags outside and have point-making props decorating the bar) and know with some degree of accuracy exactly what the general "vibe" of places like this is. Which would be "nationalistic and xenophobic", mostly... certainly far more than being any sort of true champions of free speech. Again I would happily assume with SOME certainty that the "free speech" that is welcome in this bar, is limited to the "free speech" that the owner happens to agree with... and any other contrary "free speech" would be made very unwelcome.

Again, no, obviously can't say this for 100% certain as I haven't been in this specific bar... but I'm damn sure I've been in a tonne that are virtually indistinguishable from it. Minus the Golliwogs, of course. That part's actually quite unique. Weird and passive aggressive as ****, but unique.

Gun conventions, gun stores, outdoor stores or in rural areas, bars, restaurants and various little mom and pop shops in rural areas all display these type of items (never even heard of a Gollywog). Often quite overblown compared to this example. The items in them have some historical context attached to it , sometimes political and they'll happily tell you what the displays are for... one of the last gunshops I'd been to had a Japanese pachinko in it for some reason and I was translating the labels and instructions. There will often be weird little things like that on display as well that many foreigners will come in and ask about it. A lot of these folk are huge history/memorabilia nuts and find some olden symbolism to be indicative of national pride, old-school traditions, etc...


Seriousness aside, I don't know what it is about old people and rag-dolls. :laugh: I have some my grandmother made, including my very first doll which I still have that is named Cindy. I still have them and I could never find it my heart to get rid of any of my stuffed animals either for similar reasons. They're just so representative of my childhood.

[Maru]

Also interesting stuff out there after looking up the name,... there's an inn here in CT with that name. And a local street named White Hart here in Houston... (edit)

The White Hart ("hart" is an archaic word for a mature white stag) was the personal badge of Richard II, who probably derived it from the arms of his mother, Joan "The Fair Maid of Kent", heiress of Edmund of Woodstock. It may also have been a pun on his name, as in "Rich-hart".[1] In the Wilton Diptych (National Gallery, London), which is the earliest authentic contemporary portrait of an English king, Richard II wears a gold and enamelled white hart jewel, and even the angels surrounding the Virgin Mary all wear white hart badges. In English Folklore, the white hart is associated with Herne the Hunter.

There are still many inns and pubs in England that sport a sign of the white hart, the fifth most popular name for a pub.[2]

Arthur C. Clarke wrote a collection of science fictional tall tales under the title of Tales from the White Hart, which used as a framing device the conceit that the tales were told during drinking sessions in a pub named the White Hart that existed somewhere between Fleet Street and the Embankment. This pub was fictional, but was based on a real pub named the White Horse where the science fiction community of London met in the 1940s and 1950s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hart

https://i.imgur.com/ALI4KvI.jpg

[Ammi]

..thing is, if I had anything displayed in such a way of quantity and any of my customers/patrons felt offended because of the negative representation attached to a golliwog...then surely in any hospitality industry, it wouldn’t be to feel...ughhh, pc gone mad...it would be to not wish to offend anyone, while they spent their time there...I mean even if offence was never intended or even thought of at the time of displaying them, surely it would be the main consideration now that it is known...he’s 59yrs old, he absolutely must know the negative attachment with golliwogs so to publicly display them seems quite odd...maybe a publicity thing, to court controversy, I don’t know...

[Beso]

Up for 3 years..no complaints...suddenly 1 person us offended and its national news...countries gone mad!

[Cherie]

Perhaps not but... and I don't mean to be, err... country-ist here but I suspect you're speaking from a mostly theoretical standpoint here, and not from the standpoint of someone who has been in dozens of similar pubs / bars (the kind that fly two great big flags outside and have point-making props decorating the bar) and know with some degree of accuracy exactly what the general "vibe" of places like this is. Which would be "nationalistic and xenophobic", mostly... certainly far more than being any sort of true champions of free speech. Again I would happily assume with SOME certainty that the "free speech" that is welcome in this bar, is limited to the "free speech" that the owner happens to agree with... and any other contrary "free speech" would be made very unwelcome.

Again, no, obviously can't say this for 100% certain as I haven't been in this specific bar... but I'm damn sure I've been in a tonne that are virtually indistinguishable from it. Minus the Golliwogs, of course. That part's actually quite unique. Weird and passive aggressive as ****, but unique.

You have been in dozens of pubs that fly the English flag, why can't the English flag be flown with pride? after all it is the err flag of England, England must be the only country in the world where flying their flag is seen as some kind of crime :laugh: couple that with a white man behind the bar with a few tats and not too much hair and you got yourself a racist apparently, I don't know what this guys game is, it does seem a bit odd in these times, but if his patrons don't object then it's his business (pardon the pun), people can vote with their feet if they don't feel it is appropriate

[Crimson Dynamo]

You have been in dozens of pubs that fly the English flag, why can't the English flag be flown with pride? after all it is the err flag of England, England must be the only country in the world where flying their flag is seen as some kind of crime :laugh: couple that with a white man behind the bar with a few tats and not too much hair and you got yourself a racist apparently, I don't know what this guys game is, it does seem a bit odd in these times, but if his patrons don't object then it's his business (pardon the pun), people can vote with their feet if they don't feel it is appropriate

ENGLISH FLAG??????


:nono:

[Beso]

Dont mosques fly the pakistani flag etc etc etc..:shrug:

[thesheriff443]

If the white heart charged ten pound for a shot of whiskey then lt would have a melt down.

[bots]

The guy is fighting a battle over a decision that was made 30+ years ago to get rid of the gollywog. Its not like its a recent decision. Does that not seem odd to anyone?

[Crimson Dynamo]

If the white heart charged ten pound for a shot of whiskey then lt would have a melt down.

No I would not as I dont drink Irish Whiskey

I drink Whisky


:smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

The guy is fighting a battle over a decision that was made 30+ years ago to get rid of the gollywog. Its not like its a recent decision. Does that not seem odd to anyone?

which decision was that?

[bots]

which decision was that?

Robinsons jam removed it, it was removed from schools, the similar book was removed

[Toy Soldier]

You have been in dozens of pubs that fly the English flag, why can't the English flag be flown with pride? after all it is the err flag of England, England must be the only country in the world where flying their flag is seen as some kind of crime [emoji23] couple that with a white man behind the bar with a few tats and not too much hair and you got yourself a racist apparently, I don't know what this guys game is, it does seem a bit odd in these times, but if his patrons don't object then it's his business (pardon the pun), people can vote with their feet if they don't feel it is appropriateI've been in dozens flying over the top British memorabilia and noted that they all have a similar vibe... The "Opinionated Old Man Brexit Vibe", let's say.

I've actually only been in ONE that was covered in just the English flag and tbqfh it was ****ing terrifying. I felt like I had been sucked into "This Is England" :joker:.

Getting off track here a bit and arguing things that I really don't need to be argued, when it's just plainly obvious that anyone who is insisting on having a horde of Golliwog dolls adorning their pub is trying to make some sort of point. Claims to the contrary are just nonsense.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Robinsons jam removed it, it was removed from schools, the similar book was removed

Robinsons removed it for strict commercial reasons. I have no idea the motivation by others but I suspect (as is almost always the case) perceived fear of blame


But there was no Gollywog law as far as I am aware :shrug:

[thesheriff443]

No I would not as I dont drink Irish Whiskey

I drink Whisky


:smug:

If it's in a glass it's whiskey full stop

[Toy Soldier]

Robinsons removed it for strict commercial reasons. I have no idea the motivation by others but I suspect (as is almost always the case) perceived fear of blame


But there was no Gollywog law as far as I am aware :shrug:Or because they are pretty much objectively racist... They're even more exaggerated dolls of minstrels which are exaggerated parodies of black people. How is it NOT racist ffs. I'm also utterly bewildered by the "It can't be racist because my gran had one" arguments.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Or because they are pretty much objectively racist... They're even more exaggerated dolls of minstrels which are exaggerated parodies of black people. How is it NOT racist ffs. I'm also utterly bewildered by the "It can't be racist because my gran had one" arguments.

Says you. Its just a doll from a bygone age. Its says nothing about today or race. Trying to airbrush it out of existence is not a way forward. In many ways its important to understand exactly what it is and was is important for young people. Yes you dont want it as a new CBBC character but pretending it does not exist is silly.

What is it that you think the pub are doing?

[Cherie]

ENGLISH FLAG??????


:nono:

:hehe:

[Toy Soldier]

What is it that you think the pub are doing?

Illustratively?

"We know these are controversial but we're going to have loads of them because that's PC gern mmmeeerrrddd har har harrr aren't we clever look at us, not one, not two, not three but fifteen! Fifteen gollywogs and there's nothing you can say about it, up yours lefty liberals! Brexit, gollywogs and real ale yarrrrrrr ruuule Britainia, God saaave theeeeen queeeeeeen. Gollywogs lol!

If you also hate lefty liberals, love gollywogs and think everything is PC gerrrnnnnn hhhmmeerrrrddd come to our Golliwog pub, it is super clever because it has them. Brexit."

^^ that

[Crimson Dynamo]

Illustratively?

"We know these are controversial but we're going to have loads of them because that's PC gern mmmeeerrrddd har har harrr aren't we clever look at us, not one, not two, not three but fifteen! Fifteen gollywogs and there's nothing you can say about it, up yours lefty liberals! Brexit, gollywogs and real ale yarrrrrrr ruuule Britainia, God saaave theeeeen queeeeeeen. Gollywogs lol! "

^^ that

yes and if that were indeed the motivation unless they have broken a law then good luck to them. If they have broken a law about gollywogs then down they come

[Ammi]

..if we took away all of the racist/stereotype negative attachments to golliwogs, which there are...if we replaced the ‘display of dolls’ in such a prominent quantity as is reported, with clown dolls or dolls of ‘days gone by’, which could be very ‘creepy’ by nature and would make some feel very uncomfortable, in their display...so would deter from drinking in the pub, surely that would be something the pub owner would consider in losing some potential custom because it’s a business../his livelihood...so he wouldn’t think...oh, I’m going to make a stand with these dolls, I like them very much and you can take them or leave them, you’re jus5 being very PC..and if they offend you, then just don’t come here...so the fact that he’s essentially doing that, is very odd I feel.../..almost like business suicide, to adopt such an adamant stance when his whole business caters to not offending any public..either deliberately or unintentionally...I’m not sure if it’s a family pub or a drinking pub, but if it were me and a child for instance, who felt uncomfortable with a doll../..any doll...I would remove the doll and think I probably wouldn’t put it back again when they had left because it had in some way ‘offended’ or upset...

[Toy Soldier]

yes and if that were indeed the motivation unless they have broken a law then good luck to them. If they have broken a law about gollywogs then down they come

Well yes, to be fair they can have whatever decorations they want in their sh*tty golliwog pub, it is indeed their business unless the dolls are made illegal. But last time I checked, criticism wasn't limited to what is and isn't legal :think:.

[Ammi]

...anyway, he was quite possibly approached and encouraged by the news media to help ‘create’ this story, which only serves to cause more divisiveness, when it’s the last thing that is needed in the present day...

[Toy Soldier]

..if we took away all of the racist/stereotype negative attachments to golliwogs, which there are...if we replaced the ‘display of dolls’ in such a prominent quantity as is reported, with clown dolls or dolls of ‘days gone by’, which could be very ‘creepy’ by nature and would make some feel very uncomfortable, in their display...so would deter from drinking in the pub, surely that would be something the pub owner would consider in losing some potential custom because it’s a business../his livelihood...so he wouldn’t think...oh, I’m going to make a stand with these dolls, I like them very much and you can take them or leave them, you’re jus5 being very PC..and if they offend you, then just don’t come here...so the fact that he’s essentially doing that, is very odd I feel.../..almost like business suicide, to adopt such an adamant stance when his whole business caters to not offending any public..either deliberately or unintentionally...I’m not sure if it’s a family pub or a drinking pub, but if it were me and a child for instance, who felt uncomfortable with a doll../..any doll...I would remove the doll and think I probably wouldn’t put it back again when they had left because it had in some way ‘offended’ or upset...As covered in the bit I added to my post above at the bottom, I think they're clearly trying to cater to a certain customer base, and feel like this is some sort of protest statement.

[Toy Soldier]

...anyway, he was quite possibly approached and encouraged by the news media to help ‘create’ this story, which only serves to cause more divisiveness, when it’s the last thing that is needed in the present day...I dunno, I get a strong impression that they sold the story to the press themselves...

[Crimson Dynamo]

As covered in the bit I added to my post above at the bottom, I think they're clearly trying to cater to a certain customer base, and feel like this is some sort of protest statement.

Have you ever been to Grays in Essex?

Id say they have done their marketing well

[Toy Soldier]

Have you ever been to Grays in Essex?

Id say they have done their marketing wellI try not to go too far south of Manchester, I get hives. I think I'm allergic to Westminster.

[Ammi]

I try not to go too far south of Manchester, I get hives. I think I'm allergic to Westminster.

...well maybe if you were brave enough to venture to East Anglia, i’d have some rooms ready for you and all the TS people to stay...we’re quite welcoming here, I think..by birth, I’m a Northern gal though, so I do find the local people strange sometimes..:laugh:..

[Ammi]

...mind if you start sneezing then you’re out...I’m quite OCD about stuff like that..

[Withano]

:joker:


Maybe you could say that seeing as gollywogs are loved, cuddled and generally associated with happiness, denying this lovely man. As that is how i can only judge him. Denying him the right to show off a historic toy as popular as teddy bears like the gollywog is tantamount to racism itself...so maybe you are the racist cause you are seeing a cuddly toy as something nasty simply because its black.

Excellent, well thought-out argument. 10/10.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its interesting that we howl at the gollywog but are "happy" with say the fashion industry and its hideous caricature of what a woman should look like?

Its not a direct comparison i know but its one for sure

http://www.adinnerguest.com/wp-content/uploads/Skinny-models.jpg

[Brillopad]

As covered in the bit I added to my post above at the bottom, I think they're clearly trying to cater to a certain customer base, and feel like this is some sort of protest statement.

It’s a stuffed toy. We all know what it represents but there are many things to be offended by, such as the use of offensive language and treatment which is much more dangerous. A lot of women get offended by stupid stereotypes such as Barbie dolls, me included, but to ban one and not another shows how society as a whole treats the views of women. Women however are expected to ignore it and get over themselves. It’s just a bit of fun don’t you know.

Then to appease certain religious groups dominated by men women are expected to tolerate women covering themselves in public and everything that represents but yet again women are expected to suck it up. Men self-identifying as women are being given rights that override the rights of women born that way but still women are expected to suck it up. I would say sexism is a bigger problem in the modern world than racism or any other ‘ism’.

[Ammi]

..it isn’t any type of comparison though, not even a vague one...the two thought trains are of ‘acceptability in the past’ v ‘acceptability and offence in the present day’ and what we now are given reason to think more deeply about...I think that most people agree that past or present, ‘too slim’ has never been acceptable to portray as ‘fashionable’...

[Withano]

Its interesting that we howl at the gollywog but are "happy" with say the fashion industry and its hideous caricature of what a woman should look like?

Its not a direct comparison i know but its one for sure

http://www.adinnerguest.com/wp-content/uploads/Skinny-models.jpg

Literally nobody is 'happy' with the fashion industry. Who did you talk to before deciding that this was a fact you should share?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Literally nobody is 'happy' with the fashion industry. Who did you talk to before deciding that this was a fact you should share?

people buy the clothes, they buy the magazines that support the industry, they watch the tv shows

i dont see any demonstrations in Londons streets

i expect every member bought clothes in high street shops in the last month


Not sure what point it is you are making?

[Withano]

people buy the clothes, they buy the magazines that support the industry, they watch the tv shows

i dont see any demonstrations in Londons streets

i expect every member bought clothes in high street shops in the last month


Not sure what point it is you are making?

Only nudists are unhappy with the fashion industry then got it. Your logic sometimes is so superhuman, its hard for me to keep up.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Only nudists are unhappy with the fashion industry then got it. Your logic sometimes is so superhuman, its hard for me to keep up.

i understand you try your best and that is all you can do

[Marches]

I like how this slightly interestin discussion dissolved into people ignoring good posts and responding to random points to make their argument look better

[Crimson Dynamo]

I like how this slightly interestin discussion dissolved into people ignoring good posts and responding to random points to make their argument look better

Welcome to Tibb


:douf:

[Brillopad]

Only nudists are unhappy with the fashion industry then got it. Your logic sometimes is so superhuman, its hard for me to keep up.

It’s only women, they are expected to suffer ie starve themselves, nevermind the long-term effects that is likely to have on their bodies, all in the name of selling sex - of the female kind that is. I don’t see male models expected to look that way.

Women are used to sell sex in most industries, not just the fashion industry, and the message is always the same - to please men, of any colour. It has always been and still is a far bigger problem than other ‘isms’.

[Withano]

It’s only women, they are expected to suffer ie starve themselves, nevermind the long-term effects that is likely to have on their bodies, all in the name of selling sex - of the female kind that is. I don’t see male models expected to look that way.

Women are used to sell sex in most industries, not just the fashion industry, and the message is always the same - to please men, of any colour. It has always been and still is a far bigger problem than other ‘isms’.

Apparently Brillo, youre not unhappy with this because you wear clothes. LT has spoken.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Apparently Brillo, youre not unhappy with this because you wear clothes. LT has spoken.

well its as complicit as having a gollywog in your pub if you take it to a logical conclusion

[Withano]

well its as complicit as having a gollywog in your pub if you take it to a logical conclusion

Yeah a similar number of people in the country wear clothes and own gollywogs. These are all good points you are making LT, i dunno why youre being defensive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah a similar number of people in the country wear clothes and own gollywogs. These are all good points you are making LT, i dunno why youre being defensive.

im not the one denying the fashion industry and its portrayal of women is largely ignored whilst trying to be outraged about a puppet


because, that be you

[Withano]

im not the one denying the fashion industry and its portrayal of women is largely ignored whilst trying to be outraged about a puppet


because, that be you

You literally made the thread about the puppet, and not the fashion industry, sweet lord have your breakfast, already.

[bots]

im not the one denying the fashion industry and its portrayal of women is largely ignored whilst trying to be outraged about a puppet


because, that be you

wtf has this got to do with gollywogs and pubs :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

wtf has this got to do with gollywogs and pubs :shrug:

One can make a comparison in order to highlight the futility of the other?

[Brillopad]

I like how this slightly interestin discussion dissolved into people ignoring good posts and responding to random points to make their argument look better

It really isn’t for any poster to decide which are appropriate posts for others to respond to.

[Wizard.]

The name of the pub doesn't do them any favours either :laugh:

:joker::joker:

https://i.imgur.com/YdDzG2R.jpg

[Brillopad]

Yeah a similar number of people in the country wear clothes and own gollywogs. These are all good points you are making LT, i dunno why youre being defensive.

So women have to be stick thin to the point of damaging their health to sell sex, oops I mean’t to say clothes, in order for women to wear clothes, yeah that makes sense. I think we all know what they are really selling.

[Vicky.]

Its interesting that we howl at the gollywog but are "happy" with say the fashion industry and its hideous caricature of what a woman should look like?

Its not a direct comparison i know but its one for sure

http://www.adinnerguest.com/wp-content/uploads/Skinny-models.jpg

I would say most are not happy with the fashion industry and how it portrays women tbh

I thought you were a skinny chaser. I am sure I remember a thread you posted of a very thin person where you claimed she was perfect or something, and then all th threads on people even slightly overweight with 'its gross' and such

But I don't really get what anorexic models have to do with gollys? :suspect:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would say most are not happy with the fashion industry and how it portrays women tbh

I thought you were a skinny chaser. I am sure I remember a thread you posted of a very thin person where you claimed she was perfect or something, and then all th threads on people even slightly overweight with 'its gross' and such

But I don't really get what anorexic models have to do with gollys? :suspect:

Plenty people are not happy with the way animals are treated and dont eat meat but i dont think I will see anyone at say the OScars who wont be bedecked in Fashion that promotes anorexic girls

oh wait they may wear a different colour to be angry about Harvey Weinstein..

:idc:


that will learn him

[Vicky.]

People have to wear clothes. It would be an interesting Oscars ceremony indeed if they all turned up nekkid :D

[Withano]

So women have to be stick thin to the point of damaging their health to sell sex, oops I mean’t to say clothes, in order for women to wear clothes, yeah that makes sense. I think we all know what they are really selling.

Take a step back and reread the thread, this is one of those rare times we're on the same side of the argument.

[Toy Soldier]

So women have to be stick thin to the point of damaging their health to sell sex, oops I mean’t to say clothes, in order for women to wear clothes, yeah that makes sense. I think we all know what they are really selling.Men don't tend to find it in any way attractive; if you look at the girls in "mens magazines" etc you'll find that they're never stick thin. If men found stick thin women attractive that's what would be in those magazines :shrug:. The fashion industry is a separate entity and it, frankly, has very little if anything to do with the vast majority of straight men.

[Withano]

:

But I don't really get what anorexic models have to do with gollys? :suspect:

I think the point was LT assumed we are all happy with the fashion industry because we wear clothes, and because nobody was bringing the fashion industry up in his thread about this blokes pub.. and that made us all hypocrites (even though he seems unhappy with the fashion industry but fine with the pub himself... i dont think hes had his breakfast).

[Crimson Dynamo]

Non-offensive golliwog dolls launched after pub complaint

http://www.southendnewsnetwork.net/wp-content/uploads/7D6674F7-193E-4891-94C9-9F56D5226BBA.jpeg


A toy manufacturer in Essex has launched a non-offensive golliwog by making it white instead of black.

According to toy maker Schwartz PLC who are based in Canewdon, the ‘Jolly White Golly’ will allow collectors and children alike to enjoy ‘all the charm of the original golliwog without upsetting any black people who may see it.’

The company’s chief executive David Frenulum has already offered a set of five to The White Hart, a pub in Grays that has been in the news after the landlord received a complaint for displaying traditional golliwogs behind the counter.

David added, ‘Parents have told us that they want to allow their children to enjoy the traditonal golliwog without promoting any racial stereotypes, and so this is an ideal product for them.’

’Also, by making him white, there is absolutely no scope for religious offence as it is an established fact that white people are not entitled to feel prejudiced against about anything anymore.’

‘The new toys start at £9.99 each.’

It has been a stormy week for companies trying to avoid causing offence, with one cleaning company in York being forced to change their name from ‘Spick and Span’ after local Mexicans said that it made them feel ‘uneasy.’

There is also a court case in progress at the moment with a number of Italians suing the London Borough Of Wapping.

Meanwhile, a spokesperson for Manchester City Football Club has confirmed that Kun Aguero will not be forced to leave this summer, despite complaints from the Black Football Fans’ Alliance.

http://www.southendnewsnetwork.net/news/non-offensive-golliwog-dolls-launched-after-pub/

[thesheriff443]

The word *** is a diogatory word

[Crimson Dynamo]

The word *** is a derogatory word

fixed

[thesheriff443]

fixed

Should just give you my pass word

[Vicky.]

:

I think the point was LT assumed we are all happy with the fashion industry because we wear clothes, and because nobody was bringing the fashion industry up in his thread about this blokes pub.. and that made us all hypocrites (even though he seems unhappy with the fashion industry but fine with the pub himself... i dont think hes had his breakfast).

Ah right. well that..makes sense. In no way.

[Marches]

Tbh the whole race issue aside these dolls are repulsive anyway no matter the colour why would you want them around ur pub lmao

[Vicky.]

Tbh the whole race issue aside these dolls are repulsive anyway no matter the colour why would you want them around ur pub lmao

To make a statement.

No bloody way does someone have 15 of them, some very large, there for any reason other than to be a dick :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

To make a statement.

No bloody way does someone have 15 of them, some very large, there for any reason other than to be a dick :laugh:

id imagine people bring them in to them, happens a lot in pubs, they collect things from regulars

[Vicky.]

id imagine people bring them in to them, happens a lot in pubs, they collect things from regulars

He does say in the article some were gifts from customers.

[Beso]

Well yes, to be fair they can have whatever decorations they want in their sh*tty golliwog pub, it is indeed their business unless the dolls are made illegal. But last time I checked, criticism wasn't limited to what is and isn't legal :think:.

The pubs not ****ty though, you are judging it without ever stepping foot in it.....typical....ive been in, it looks nice from outside and sits directly next to a uni campus...which most of its custom comes from...inside its nice as well with a well kept beer garden outside for kids to play while parents refresh.

[GoldHeart]

Tbh the whole race issue aside these dolls are repulsive anyway no matter the colour why would you want them around ur pub lmao

I don't see the interest in them either, they're weird caricatures :facepalm:. I understand people have them from their childhood but they don't have a positive image attached to them .

[Niamh.]

I don't see the interest in them either, they're weird caricatures :facepalm:. I understand people have them from their childhood but they don't have a positive image attached to them .

Exactly, clearly this **** is done for a reaction or to attract/appease certain clientele.

[GoldHeart]

Exactly, clearly this **** is done for a reaction or to attract/appease certain clientele.

Exactly , these dolls nowadays are usually just in seaside shops or retro shops along with other old museum items .

http://www.historyofdolls.com/history-of-famous-dolls/history-of-golliwog/

[Toy Soldier]

The pubs not ****ty though, you are judging it without ever stepping foot in it.....typical....ive been in, it looks nice from outside and sits directly next to a uni campus...which most of its custom comes from...inside its nice as well with a well kept beer garden outside for kids to play while parents refresh.Ahh well this is starting to add up a bit more then. Uni students still in the "OMG lol controversy is so funny!" phase will absolutely love this nonsense.

"Off to the golliwog pub to make rape jokes TEEHEEHEE"

[Vicky.]

I am surprised there has not been a request for a safe space away from the gollys in his pub, if its frequented by uni students

[Cherie]

I am surprised there has not been a request for a safe space away from the gollys in his pub, if its frequented by uni students

:joker:

[Toy Soldier]

I am surprised there has not been a request for a safe space away from the gollys in his pub, if its frequented by uni studentsThat's more US universities. UK ones are still all about "bants"... And as such, UK students often find things like controversial jokes and pubs full of gollywogs "hilarious".

[GoldHeart]

Ah right. well that..makes sense. In no way.

Fashion anorexic models & gollywogs are the worst comparison I've ever heard :facepalm: . Literally has to be a joke :joker: .

[Beso]

Ahh well this is starting to add up a bit more then. Uni students still in the "OMG lol controversy is so funny!" phase will absolutely love this nonsense.



"Off to the golliwog pub to make rape jokes TEEHEEHEE"



A load were in the last time i was in..lefties each and every one.

[Withano]

This is the worst thread ever for so many reasons

[Vicky.]

That's more US universities. UK ones are still all about "bants"... And as such, UK students often find things like controversial jokes and pubs full of gollywogs "hilarious".

Its very much UK unis also. Safe spaces, no platforming and seem to be completely anti-freespeech to boot.

Obviously uni students are not a hive mind or anything, much like any other group of people..but I wish this was just American nonsense. Sadly it is not.

[Cherie]

This is the worst thread ever for so many reasons

Vicky can provide you with a safe space to shelter if necessary :hehe:

[Toy Soldier]

This is the worst thread ever for so many reasonsI wouldn't say "ever", but it's definitely the messiest for a while :joker:. And from the word go... Usually it takes a few pages.

[Toy Soldier]

Vicky can provide you with a safe space to shelter if necessary :hehe:Vicky and safe don't belong in the same sentence :worry: she will literally chokeslam you.

[Beso]

This is the worst thread ever for so many reasons

What are the reasons?

[Toy Soldier]

What are the reasons?1. LT Started it

2. It's about golliwogs in a pub


There are probably more but I'm OK with those two.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's made me fancy a pint

[Withano]

Vicky can provide you with a safe space to shelter if necessary :hehe:

Tibb towers :lovedup:

[Beso]

1. LT Started it

2. It's about golliwogs in a pub


There are probably more but I'm OK with those two.

Here's a question.

Why are golliwogs seen as offensive whilst white women twerking aint:shrug:

[Cherie]

Tibb towers :lovedup:

More like the ban list think you need a break from the stress :hee:

[Toy Soldier]

Here's a question.

Why are golliwogs seen as offensive whilst white women twerking aint:shrug:Did they black up before they started twerking?

[Toy Soldier]

More like the ban list think you need a break from the stress :hee:There should be a subforum JUST for banned members :omgno:. Like prison! Truth would post there all day and others would pop in to visit from time to time :joker:.

[Vicky.]

I quite like the idea of an exiles subforum. What a huge mess that would be :D

[Beso]

Did they black up before they started twerking?

No....

[Beso]

I quite like the idea of an exiles subforum. What a huge mess that would be :D

I bagsey the moderation of it.:nono:...hands off.

[Vicky.]

I bagsey the moderation of it.:nono:...hands off.

I am picturing no holds barred tbh. No moderation at all. Even more fun :laugh:

[Cherie]

There should be a subforum JUST for banned members :omgno:. Like prison! Truth would post there all day and others would pop in to visit from time to time :joker:.

I quite like the idea of an exiles subforum. What a huge mess that would be :D

Worth a trial for a month

[Beso]

I am picturing no holds barred tbh. No moderation at all. Even more fun :laugh:

Its been a long time since ive had a proper rant on here...make it happen.

[Toy Soldier]

I quite like the idea of an exiles subforum. What a huge mess that would be :DBut it wouldn't matter because the people in it are in exile from the rest of the forum anyway, and other members can't see it.

Though for a while you'd all have to put up with me trying my best to get banned to gain entry :think:...

[Withano]

More like the ban list think you need a break from the stress :hee:

I dont know that place, people part pf tibb towers dont go there.

[Tozzie]

I adored my golliwog when I was a kid and I don't remember ever associating them with black people, to me it was just a coloured doll, woulnd't have mattered if it were green. I bet most black people aren't offended by them, its just pc brigade again

[Crimson Dynamo]

I like to wander in the quadrangle of Tibb Towers and visit the Arista tea room. Yes it was closed a while back but you can get in through a window and its peaceful and calm. MTVN keeps his porn stash in there and occasionally I sit sipping a tea watching Mokka take the knitting club Yoga class on the battlements. If the wind is in the right direction you can hear Alf farting when he does the downward dog..

[Toy Soldier]

when he does the downward dog..

:omgno: that's no way to talk about _______!

[Maru]

I see some of you are taking Valentines day very seriously this year and have decided to imbibe... :laugh:

[Maru]

Also I didn't think it was a bad thread... unless there was a boocoo of bans and thread clean ups or something while I was gone. Just reads like any other classic SD thread.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:omgno: that's no way to talk about _______!

:fan:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Also I didn't think it was a bad thread... unless there was a boocoo of bans and thread clean ups or something while I was gone. Just reads like any other classic SD thread.

Its not its a good thread that kind of sends up both sides of the forum :hee:

[Toy Soldier]

Its not its a good thread that kind of sends up both sides of the forum :hee::think: did you just openly admit to baiting? :umm2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:think: did you just openly admit to baiting? :umm2:

Not by me but by the topic and its absurdity

[Ammi]

..those ‘white’ golliwogs are awful, I don’t see them as ‘non offensive’ at all, I think they add more to the offensiveness...like inferring they have to be white because of ‘PC’ reasons..oh we still want the dolls, we’re going to keep them and keep producing them...we will just have to change the colour to make them ok because of fussy people...that to me is completely missing the point ...as sheriff has said, the last part of the name itself has been used as one of the most derogatory terms that could be used for a black person...and maybe is still used by some..?..changing the colour of the doll, doesn’t make them any more acceptable or make what they’ve come to represent, any more acceptable...it just makes more of a mockery and adds to the insult and thoughtlessness...I still find it odd and hard to believe that a 59yr old person, could ‘innocently’ display these things in any public place...his life must have been very much in a ‘bubble’, is what it would seem...

[thesheriff443]

..those ‘white’ golliwogs are awful, I don’t see them as ‘non offensive’ at all, I think they add more to the offensiveness...like inferring they have to be white because of ‘PC’ reasons..oh we still want the dolls, we’re going to keep them and keep producing them...we will just have to change the colour to make them ok because of fussy people...that to me is completely missing the point ...as sheriff has said, the last part of the name itself has been used as one of the most derogatory terms that could be used for a black person...and maybe is still used by some..?..changing the colour of the doll, doesn’t make them any more acceptable or make what they’ve come to represent, any more acceptable...it just makes more of a mockery and adds to the insult and thoughtlessness...I still find it odd and hard to believe that a 59yr old person, could ‘innocently’ display these things in any public place...his life must have been very much in a ‘bubble’, is what it would seem...
Albino golly ***

[thesheriff443]

In terms of history and the passing of time slavery was happening yesterday and slavery in the form of children working for ten pence a day is still happening in 2018.

The human race is its own worst enemy

[Ammi]

In terms of history and the passing of time slavery was happening yesterday and slavery in the form of children working for ten pence a day is still happening in 2018.

The human race is its own worst enemy

..absolutely, sheriff...we can go back to those cuddly toys of by gone eras etc which have no negative or awful, offensive attachments and we can embrace them today, as we did then...but to bring ‘past ignorances’ to the present day is wrong and regressive, I think...that’s not ‘nostalgia’ or ‘vintage’ in any acceptable way, acceptable for anyone..regardless of skin colour...

[Ammi]

..there is no point in having ‘history’ unless we learn from it...

[Niamh.]

..those ‘white’ golliwogs are awful, I don’t see them as ‘non offensive’ at all, I think they add more to the offensiveness...like inferring they have to be white because of ‘PC’ reasons..oh we still want the dolls, we’re going to keep them and keep producing them...we will just have to change the colour to make them ok because of fussy people...that to me is completely missing the point ...as sheriff has said, the last part of the name itself has been used as one of the most derogatory terms that could be used for a black person...and maybe is still used by some..?..changing the colour of the doll, doesn’t make them any more acceptable or make what they’ve come to represent, any more acceptable...it just makes more of a mockery and adds to the insult and thoughtlessness...I still find it odd and hard to believe that a 59yr old person, could ‘innocently’ display these things in any public place...his life must have been very much in a ‘bubble’, is what it would seem...

:clap2:

[Vicky.]

southendnewsnetwork is a satirical site. There are no white gollys.

[Crimson Dynamo]

southendnewsnetwork is a satirical site. There are no white gollys.

there is one in the pub!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/13/09/4928C50800000578-5384909-image-a-3_1518513898567.jpg

[Vicky.]

I see. Always thought that news site was satire :laugh:

[GoldHeart]

..those ‘white’ golliwogs are awful, I don’t see them as ‘non offensive’ at all, I think they add more to the offensiveness...like inferring they have to be white because of ‘PC’ reasons..oh we still want the dolls, we’re going to keep them and keep producing them...we will just have to change the colour to make them ok because of fussy people...that to me is completely missing the point ...as sheriff has said, the last part of the name itself has been used as one of the most derogatory terms that could be used for a black person...and maybe is still used by some..?..changing the colour of the doll, doesn’t make them any more acceptable or make what they’ve come to represent, any more acceptable...it just makes more of a mockery and adds to the insult and thoughtlessness...I still find it odd and hard to believe that a 59yr old person, could ‘innocently’ display these things in any public place...his life must have been very much in a ‘bubble’, is what it would seem...

:clap1:

I didn't think the white new gollywogs were real at first, I thought it was a fake photo as that looked weird as well :facepalm: .

The name is derogatory, interesting how they still keep the same name but want to change the​ colour because that makes sense NOT :crazy:.

Like I said the way this couple have them hung around the pub is strange, and why are they so determined to keep them when they're ancient dolls that look bizarre .

It's like having ventriloquist puppets hung around up in a pub ,gives a weird theme and doesn't fit in .

I know some vintage shops sell them, and seaside shops. Some see them as harmless funny looking dolls from their childhood . Others dislike them .

[Jamie89]

It is a satirical site. White golly's exist (although I'd assume in very small numbers and just so in situations like with this pub it's so they can prop one up in amongst all the others as a way to be able to argue that the gollys aren't racist), but yeah the article posted is completely false and is subtly taking the piss throughout.

[Toy Soldier]

there is one in the pub!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/13/09/4928C50800000578-5384909-image-a-3_1518513898567.jpg

Yeah... alongside the UK driving licence that lists the address as... Alabama. But there are DEFINITELY no racial overtones involved with these dolls. :facepalm:.