Military teachers

[Kizzy]

OPERATION CANNON FODDER.



'Military veterans will be offered £40,000 bursaries to retrain as teachers to help instill self-discipline and leadership skills in young people, the Government has announced.

Former military personnel who begin teacher training courses in priority subjects - including maths, the sciences and modern foreign languages - can get a bursary from September.

The Department for Education and Ministry of Defence want ex-servicemen and women to whom discipline is second nature to share the ethos with pupils.'

What could the thinking behind this be, teachers cum drill sergeants creating generations of compliant conformists?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/military-veterans-retrain-teachers-40k-bursaries-government-scheme-discipline-leadership-children-a8241901.html

[smudgie]

Shortage of teachers, sounds like a decent idea giving them bursaries.
The bursaries should be offered to everyone wanting to become a teacher though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sounds like a good plan. Maybe they can train them to stop taking bloody inservice days and take less summer holidays too?


:idc:

[Cherie]

OPERATION CANNON FODDER.



'Military veterans will be offered £40,000 bursaries to retrain as teachers to help instill self-discipline and leadership skills in young people, the Government has announced.

Former military personnel who begin teacher training courses in priority subjects - including maths, the sciences and modern foreign languages - can get a bursary from September.

The Department for Education and Ministry of Defence want ex-servicemen and women to whom discipline is second nature to share the ethos with pupils.'

What could the thinking behind this be, teachers cum drill sergeants creating generations of compliant conformists?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/military-veterans-retrain-teachers-40k-bursaries-government-scheme-discipline-leadership-children-a8241901.html

That doesn't sound like any teenager I know

[Kizzy]

That doesn't sound like any teenager I know

Yet.

[Livia]

We have a small and incredibly technical army. You can't just rock up and join now, you have to have really good grades. Also training in the British army is thorough, and carry recognised qualifications transferable to civvy street. Also, the chain of command is the best in the world... it's a pity more businesses don't recognise this.

I can't understand why there would be a problem allowing soldiers to teach. I mean, we don't mind them fighting and dying for us. We don't mind that they have fought for the freedom we all enjoy now. Why can't they teach in a classroom?

[Marsh.]

Don't really see a problem in teaching people self discipline and leadership skills.

[Tom4784]

I think it's a good idea, there's not enough teachers and it's known that veterans can struggle finding another path after they leave the army. There would be loads of candidates in the army that have the knowledge and could probably teach various technology and IT classes as well as Key Skills like Maths and Science easily, just have to train them up on the act of teaching and the curriculum and such.

It's not like every ex-soldier would treat the class like it's their regiment and be extreme in handling the students. I had art and English teachers in Secondary school that were ex military and they were the most laid back teachers at that school. It's not like a cloud of Drill Sergeants are going to descend on the schools across the UK because of it.

[Kizzy]

We have a small and incredibly technical army. You can't just rock up and join now, you have to have really good grades. Also training in the British army is thorough, and carry recognised qualifications transferable to civvy street. Also, the chain of command is the best in the world... it's a pity more businesses don't recognise this.

I can't understand why there would be a problem allowing soldiers to teach. I mean, we don't mind them fighting and dying for us. We don't mind that they have fought for the freedom we all enjoy now. Why can't they teach in a classroom?

There is no issue with them teaching obviously, m issue is the inference that the same level of discipline will be required for schoolchildren as squaddies.

[Marsh.]

There is no issue with them teaching obviously, m issue is the inference that the same level of discipline will be required for schoolchildren as squaddies.

That's not the inference at all though?

"Teach them self-discipline and leadership skills" there's no indication they will be held to the same standards as a squaddie.

[Kizzy]

Don't really see a problem in teaching people self discipline and leadership skills.

Can't teachers do that already... what makes ex service personnel more adept at this? It's a whole new skill set, you can't motivate a child in the same way as a group of men on manoeuvres.

[AnnieK]

As long as they have the subject knowledge I feel its a good idea. A lot of NQTs quit the profession early in their careers as the pressure of the job is high, hopefully ex-military personnel, well used to pressurised positions will thrive and impart knowledge onto the students

[Kizzy]

That's not the inference at all though?

"Teach them self-discipline and leadership skills" there's no indication they will be held to the same standards as a squaddie.

I feel it is, otherwise what's the point?...

I can't see how ex service persons would have the balance needed any more or less than any other person for whom teaching is a vocation.

[Marsh.]

Can't teachers do that already... what makes ex service personnel more adept at this? It's a whole new skill set, you can't motivate a child in the same way as a group of men on manoeuvres.

But they're also not motivating the children in the same activities, so that's neither here nor there.

Who said teachers couldn't do that? They're not being replaced.

Weren't there reports that there aren't enough people training to teach? This helps that problem and brings in some very well experienced people who can do a good job.

[Marsh.]

I feel it is, otherwise what's the point?...

I can't see how ex service persons would have the balance needed any more or less than any other person for whom teaching is a vocation.

They have a wealth of experience and skillsets that is only a good thing to share with the next generation?

[Alf]

Does this mean an end to the naughty step?

[Livia]

I can see there will be a backlash to this. When I worked in an east London college, we had a careers day and some of the more "radical" lecturers refused to agree to allow the "warmongers" into the college. And by Warmongers, they mean the army, navy and RAF. Now, I hate to turn this into a Left/Right debate, but clearly that's the direction it will take. And it's sad.

Also, if you don't think the military can teach motivation and self confidence without marching people up and down all day, then you're about fifty or sixty years out of date with your thinking.

[Kizzy]

They have a wealth of experience and skillsets that is only a good thing to share with the next generation?

They have, that said I don't think that a military career and teaching are always a match made in heaven.

[Marsh.]

They have, that said I don't think that a military career and teaching are always a match made in heaven.

Oh maybe not. Certainly they won't all automatically be eligible (I hope) or suitable.

But infusing a bit of both can only be a good start IMO.

[Kizzy]

I can see there will be a backlash to this. When I worked in an east London college, we had a careers day and some of the more "radical" lecturers refused to agree to allow the "warmongers" into the college. And by Warmongers, they mean the army, navy and RAF. Now, I hate to turn this into a Left/Right debate, but clearly that's the direction it will take. And it's sad.

Also, if you don't think the military can teach motivation and self confidence without marching people up and down all day, then you're about fifty or sixty years out of date with your thinking.

I'm with the lecturers there then, I don't agree these glossy brochure approaches to the armed services aimed at young people myself.

I didn't suggest there would be any 'marching up and down' that is your misinterpretation yet again of my point.

[Kizzy]

Oh maybe not. Certainly they won't all automatically be eligible (I hope) or suitable.

But infusing a bit of both can only be a good start IMO.

Totally, and as far as I know bursaries are available to anyone in those subjects, I just wondered why the drive for military persons specifically.

[Livia]

I'm with the lecturers there then, I don't agree these glossy brochure approaches to the armed services aimed at young people myself.

I didn't suggest there would be any 'marching up and down' that is your misinterpretation yet again of my point.

I did not misinterpret your post. Really tired of you intimating that you're too clever for me... you're not. You made the drill sergeant comment, not me. What do you suppose drill sergeants do? They march people up and down. So if anything it's you misinterpreting your own post.

The fact that you would be with the lecturers is not a shock to me.

[Kizzy]

I did not misinterpret your post. Really tired of you intimating that you're too clever for me... you're not. You made the drill sergeant comment, not me. What do you suppose drill sergeants do? They march people up and down. So if anything it's you misinterpreting your own post.

The fact that you would be with the lecturers is not a shock to me.

I didn't, intelligent people don't have to tell others they're intelligent every other day.

You really shouldn't take everything people say so literally, occasionally try to read between the lines that's my advice.
I've made my concerns on here quite clear.

The fact you're against the lecturers is no surprise to me either.

[Marsh.]

Totally, and as far as I know bursaries are available to anyone in those subjects, I just wondered why the drive for military persons specifically.

I don't know. A lack of new teachers coming through?

[Kizzy]

I don't know. A lack of new teachers coming through?

Or a specific type of teacher, a more say authoritarian style teacher maybe?
It could be great, I like it in one way for the leadership/confidence/teambuilding blah blah aspect, but another part of me hates it :/

[Livia]

I didn't, intelligent people don't have to tell others they're intelligent every other day.

You really shouldn't take everything people say so literally, occasionally try to read between the lines that's my advice.
I've made my concerns on here quite clear.

The fact you're against the lecturers is no surprise to me either.

Instead of asking me to read between the lines, something you yourself find impossible, maybe you should just say what you mean.

Do you get the thing about the drill sergeant now? How you accused them of sending in "drill sergeants", and then said you didn't mention anything about them "marching up and down"? That's what you said.... and now you're advising me not to take things literally... which is your default reply when you've tripped yourself up.

And yes, of course I'm against the lecturers. I'm a military widow... and you started this thread with "OPERATION CANNON FODDER", which really spelled out both your position, and your lack of knowledge, from the off.

[Livia]

Or a specific type of teacher, a more say authoritarian style teacher maybe?
It could be great, I like it in one way for the leadership/confidence/teambuilding blah blah aspect, but another part of me hates it :/

That's why you started the first post with "OPERATION CANNON FODDER".

[Kizzy]

Instead of asking me to read between the lines, something you yourself find impossible, maybe you should just say what you mean.

Do you get the thing about the drill sergeant now? How you accused them of sending in "drill sergeants", and then said you didn't mention anything about them "marching up and down"? That's what you said.... and now you're advising me not to take things literally... which is your default reply when you've tripped yourself up.

And yes, of course I'm against the lecturers. I'm a military widow... and you started this thread with "OPERATION CANNON FODDER", which really spelled out both your position, and your lack of knowledge, from the off.

I did start with that yes and I believe OPERATION CANNON FODDER to be the governments position on this.

The mention of drill sergeants related specifically to a more authoritarian teaching method, not, and I'm sorry for confusing you that children were literally going to be marched up and down.

I am against this proposal as a mother, my perspective is very different on the issue of military service.
I don't agree with the way the forces are sold to young people and I would say this is a way to target them harder and younger.

[Livia]

I did start with that yes and I believe OPERATION CANNON FODDER to be the governments position on this.

The mention of drill sergeants related specifically to a more authoritarian teaching method, not, and I'm sorry for confusing you that children were literally going to be marched up and down.

I am against this proposal as a mother, my perspective is very different on the issue of military service.
I don't agree with the way the forces are sold to young people and I would say this is a way to target them harder and younger.

Kizzy, you didn't confuse me. You contradicted yourself. It's not the same thing...

As for the way the forces are sold to young people... You agreed with the "warmongers" comment I mentioned... so you've made it perfectly clear exactly where you stand. But I expect you'll be able to justify that by saying I don't comprehend what you actually meant, whereas I think the clue is always in the words.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy, you didn't confuse me. You contradicted yourself. It's not the same thing...

As for the way the forces are sold to young people... You agreed with the "warmongers" comment I mentioned... so you've made it perfectly clear exactly where you stand. But I expect you'll be able to justify that by saying I don't comprehend what you actually meant, whereas I think the clue is always in the words.

I do believe that placing forces enrollment booths in schools and colleges is wrong, I do believe that a govt that would do that are warmongers looking for cannon fodder.

How much simpler do you want it?

I have clarified the drill sergeant comment for you once, I'm not revisiting that.

[Livia]

I do believe that placing forces enrollment booths in schools and colleges is wrong, I do believe that a govt that would do that are warmongers looking for cannon fodder.

How much simpler do you want it?

I have clarified the drill sergeant comment for you once, I'm not revisiting that.

I believe offering the forces as a career choice is the right one. No one's conscripting anyone and young people are not stupid.

I've said all I have to say on this thread.

[Vicky.]

I think it's a good idea, there's not enough teachers and it's known that veterans can struggle finding another path after they leave the army. There would be loads of candidates in the army that have the knowledge and could probably teach various technology and IT classes as well as Key Skills like Maths and Science easily, just have to train them up on the act of teaching and the curriculum and such.

It's not like every ex-soldier would treat the class like it's their regiment and be extreme in handling the students. I had art and English teachers in Secondary school that were ex military and they were the most laid back teachers at that school. It's not like a cloud of Drill Sergeants are going to descend on the schools across the UK because of it.

Agree with this. Though also do not see why these bursaries are not made available to all. Would surely encourage more into teaching, which we desperately need. There really should be more attractive training packages in many many areas where we so desperately need highly qulified people tbh. Would cost a lot in the short term of course, but would be worth it in the long run surely..

[Kizzy]

Bursaries are available to all in certain subjects, I may be reading more into this I saw it and all I saw was some dystopian pink floyds 'the wall' inspired nightmare :(

I think I'm coloured by my perception of this govt, I literally would not trust them to run a bath let alone a country. I have zero faith that they have the best interest of working class children at heart.

[Kizzy]

Hmmmmmmmm

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287476&highlight=

[Twosugars]

Bursaries are available to all in certain subjects, I may be reading more into this I saw it and all I saw was some dystopian pink floyds 'the wall' inspired nightmare :(

I think I'm coloured by my perception of this govt, I literally would not trust them to run a bath let alone a country. I have zero faith that they have the best interest of working class children at heart.

I understand your initial reaction, but to me it seems like a good idea. Ex-soldiers could be god-sent as teachers. They would be better equipped to demand discipline from kids. I mean psychologically equipped.
Behaviour kids get away with at schools today, I mean, it's just wrong.
All this treating kids like "young adults" when they are not, they are kids in the long process of becoming adult and need guidance AND boundaries. It seems many "civilian" teachers are not able to establish their authority.

[jet]

I understand your initial reaction, but to me it seems like a good idea. Ex-soldiers could be god-sent as teachers. They would be better equipped to demand discipline from kids. I mean psychologically equipped.
Behaviour kids get away with at schools today, I mean, it's just wrong.
All this treating kids like "young adults" when they are not, they are kids in the long process of becoming adult and need guidance AND boundaries. It seems many "civilian" teachers are not able to establish their authority.

Well said!