Are our Public Services on "their knees" in Britain

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its a cry we are familiar with from those in the Labour Party or on the extreme left but what substance does it have? Below are a list of some of our main public services to aid your decision. Remember that public sector workers are actually paid significantly better than their peers in the private sector and get longer holidays, shorter working hours, greater (or effectively total) job security and pension entitlements – which as a rule are considerably more generous.

So are public services in crisis or is blaming central government just a way to cover up poorly run services?

Courts
Electricity
Education, [e.g. state (public) schools, public universities, etc...]
Emergency services, (e.g. Fire, EMS, Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, etc...)
Environmental protection
Health care (NHS)
Military
Postal service
Public bank
Public broadcasting
Public library
Public security
Public transportation
Social services, (e.g. public housing, social welfare, food subsidies, etc...)
Telecommunications
Urban planning
Transportation infrastructure (roads etc)
Waste management, (e.g. wastewater, solid waste, recycling, etc...)
Water supply network

[Marsh.]

Well I'd have said yes, but Starbucks coffee is bloody lovely so I'm unsure now.

[Cherie]

There is a lot of waste, a lot of sickness, working in the public sector has always been far easier than working in the private sector, mainly because its tax payers money so people are generally not bothered....I would always advise going into the public sector if you can workwise :hee:

[-Sue-]

We give so much money away that the hardworking tax payer fork out very little of which seems to help us! (the UK) amazingly it's not rare to see government say were making NHS cuts! closing libraries! closing youth clubs! we must cut police force!

Fore example In 2016, the UK spent £13.4 billion on overseas aid, in line with the 0.7% target.

^^^ imagine what a benefit that would have been within the UK!!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

We give so much money away that the hardworking tax payer fork out very little of which seems to help us! (the UK) amazingly it's not rare to see government say were making NHS cuts! closing libraries! closing youth clubs! we must cut police force!

Fore example In 2016, the UK spent £13.4 billion on overseas aid, in line with the 0.7% target.

^^^ imagine what a benefit that would have been within the UK!!!

Overseas aid often is an investment to garner trade within the donor country, like India. Its a sweetener to get UK business contracts

[Toy Soldier]

LT half of the things you have listed are mostly or entirely privatised... they're not government / public services :think:. Get your head out of the 1980's man!



Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system


Electricity

Privatised and comparatively expensive


Education, [e.g. state (public) schools, public universities, etc...]

Pretty much a shambles, massively under-funded in recent years, miserable staff and constant cuts.


Emergency services, (e.g. Fire, EMS, Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, etc...)

Suffering and under-funded, lots of strike action, not an attractive or competitive career path



Environmental protection

:shrug:



Health care (NHS)

Needs it's own thread tbqfh. I see a lot of people saying that it's fine because they;ve had recent good experiences with the NHS. This is entirely thanks to staff who are very committed to taking good care of their patients. It IS on it's knees. Staff are under insane amounts of pressure and things are getting worse. The fact that in most services, the staff manage to shield the public from the huge problems that the NHS is facing due to systematic and deliberate under-funding, is a credit to them. In some service areas things are genuinely horrendous for both staff and patients.

Military

Bigger than it needs to be and in my opinion, in need of systematic modernisation and a departure from Monarchy-Empire-based tradition.


Postal service

No longer a public service :facepalm:


Public bank

Improving since recession but mostly privatised?


Public broadcasting

Kill it with fire tbh.

Public library

Do they even still exist? :think:


Public security

Non-police security is almost entirely privatised.


Public transportation

Mostly privatised, also shameful and getting worse, with cuts to councils meaning that local bus services (which were often subsidised) in many areas are all but non-existent at this point. Long train journeys, the trains can be decent quality. Commuter trains and pretty much all buses are clapped out and disgusting.

Social services, (e.g. public housing, social welfare, food subsidies, etc...)

Another one that needs it's own thread. The situation with social services in almost all areas of the UK isn't just bad... it's criminal / corrupt. Welfare to be honest isn't AWFUL and could so easily be mostly fixed with a few tweaks and less focus on punitive measures and cuts to the disabled. Universal Credit was a great system on paper but the implementation was incompetent to the point of disaster and is still in a huge mess.


Telecommunications

Again LT... Not a public service, telecoms is private. [edited to add] In this case I'm not saying that's a bad thing: telecoms is actually fairly decent (compared to most countries) and also is improving. It's also well priced in recent years, especially mobile telecoms, where most of the cost is basically the handset and if you go sim-only you can get unlimited everything practically free :think:. If anything, BT's monopoly needs to CONTINUE to be dismantled. You could argue that other countries have better / faster cabled infrastructure HOWEVER - I personally think making massive upgrades there is a waste of time and money because super-fast broadband is eventually going to go completely over-the-air and cabled networking will be redundant.

Urban planning

:shrug:


Transportation infrastructure (roads etc)

Sliding, badly. Also very selective. If you live in an affluent / high council tax area councils bend over backwards to ensure the roads are decent. My village is one, the roads are immaculate... can't have all of the rich folks moving away because they keep damaging their landrovers after all. 7 miles down the road in the less-affluent villages? Actual footage of a bus avoiding a pothole:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-25-2013/Ayc_9w.gif


There are also constant issues on the motorways.



Waste management, (e.g. wastewater, solid waste, recycling, etc...)

The sewerage and water systems are extensive and generally very well run, to be fair. Recycling facilities are decent, although apparently most of it is just getting dumped anyway :umm2:. General household waste though? Getting worse and worse, we're down to 3-weekly here and possibly going to monthly. In the summer the problems with vermin / wasps / flies (and maggots) / smell are horrendous.

Water supply network

See above re: water and sewerage

[Crimson Dynamo]

many libraries still exist but naturally people get info from google now

[Crimson Dynamo]

Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system


:suspect:

[Toy Soldier]

Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system


:suspect:

:ninja2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Public transport in Scotland is very good. Every time I get a train I am impressed with how clean and punctual it is

[Marsh.]

Mock is still on the streets so the courts system is obviously a bloody mess.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Mock is still on the streets so the courts system is obviously a bloody mess.

lol, there is no way he isnt banged up and posting on an old Nokia he hides in his anus

[Toy Soldier]

Public transport in Scotland is very good. Every time I get a train I am impressed with how clean and punctual it is

It's privatised tho! And yes to be fair, local trains in Scotland are much better than England... which are wildly inconsistent even on the same journey. Sometimes it'll be a "normal" train like you'd get in Scotland, other times I swear they practically have wooden seats, and are absolutely covered top to bottom in graffiti and chewing gum :umm2:.

The main problem though is the price. For me + the fam to go to Glasgow is £35 return on the train, and that's from a station 8 miles away... with a bus service that only runs every 2 hours... so we would have to drive to the station anyway or get a taxi costing another £10. When we can easily get to Glasgow and back on £20 petrol :shrug:. Probably less. Is a public transport system really effective when driving is ALWAYS both more convenient... and cheaper? Local bus is even more ridiculous: £16 return for the 4 of us to get to town and back! It's about £3 in petrol :shrug:

[kirklancaster]

LT half of the things you have listed are mostly or entirely privatised... they're not government / public services :think:. Get your head out of the 1980's man!



Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system


Electricity

Privatised and comparatively expensive


Education, [e.g. state (public) schools, public universities, etc...]

Pretty much a shambles, massively under-funded in recent years, miserable staff and constant cuts.


Emergency services, (e.g. Fire, EMS, Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, etc...)

Suffering and under-funded, lots of strike action, not an attractive or competitive career path



Environmental protection

:shrug:



Health care (NHS)

Needs it's own thread tbqfh. I see a lot of people saying that it's fine because they;ve had recent good experiences with the NHS. This is entirely thanks to staff who are very committed to taking good care of their patients. It IS on it's knees. Staff are under insane amounts of pressure and things are getting worse. The fact that in most services, the staff manage to shield the public from the huge problems that the NHS is facing due to systematic and deliberate under-funding, is a credit to them. In some service areas things are genuinely horrendous for both staff and patients.

Military

Bigger than it needs to be and in my opinion, in need of systematic modernisation and a departure from Monarchy-Empire-based tradition.


Postal service

No longer a public service :facepalm:


Public bank

Improving since recession but mostly privatised?


Public broadcasting

Kill it with fire tbh.

Public library

Do they even still exist? :think:


Public security

Non-police security is almost entirely privatised.


Public transportation

Mostly privatised, also shameful and getting worse, with cuts to councils meaning that local bus services (which were often subsidised) in many areas are all but non-existent at this point. Long train journeys, the trains can be decent quality. Commuter trains and pretty much all buses are clapped out and disgusting.

Social services, (e.g. public housing, social welfare, food subsidies, etc...)

Another one that needs it's own thread. The situation with social services in almost all areas of the UK isn't just bad... it's criminal / corrupt. Welfare to be honest isn't AWFUL and could so easily be mostly fixed with a few tweaks and less focus on punitive measures and cuts to the disabled. Universal Credit was a great system on paper but the implementation was incompetent to the point of disaster and is still in a huge mess.


Telecommunications

Again LT... Not a public service, telecoms is private. [edited to add] In this case I'm not saying that's a bad thing: telecoms is actually fairly decent (compared to most countries) and also is improving. It's also well priced in recent years, especially mobile telecoms, where most of the cost is basically the handset and if you go sim-only you can get unlimited everything practically free :think:. If anything, BT's monopoly needs to CONTINUE to be dismantled. You could argue that other countries have better / faster cabled infrastructure HOWEVER - I personally think making massive upgrades there is a waste of time and money because super-fast broadband is eventually going to go completely over-the-air and cabled networking will be redundant.

Urban planning

:shrug:


Transportation infrastructure (roads etc)

Sliding, badly. Also very selective. If you live in an affluent / high council tax area councils bend over backwards to ensure the roads are decent. My village is one, the roads are immaculate... can't have all of the rich folks moving away because they keep damaging their landrovers after all. 7 miles down the road in the less-affluent villages? Actual footage of a bus avoiding a pothole:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-25-2013/Ayc_9w.gif


There are also constant issues on the motorways.



Waste management, (e.g. wastewater, solid waste, recycling, etc...)

The sewerage and water systems are extensive and generally very well run, to be fair. Recycling facilities are decent, although apparently most of it is just getting dumped anyway :umm2:. General household waste though? Getting worse and worse, we're down to 3-weekly here and possibly going to monthly. In the summer the problems with vermin / wasps / flies (and maggots) / smell are horrendous.

Water supply network

See above re: water and sewerage

:clap1::clap1::clap1: A cracking, accurate but fair post.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's privatised tho! And yes to be fair, local trains in Scotland are much better than England... which are wildly inconsistent even on the same journey. Sometimes it'll be a "normal" train like you'd get in Scotland, other times I swear they practically have wooden seats, and are absolutely covered top to bottom in graffiti and chewing gum :umm2:.

The main problem though is the price. For me + the fam to go to Glasgow is £35 return on the train, and that's from a station 8 miles away... with a bus service that only runs every 2 hours... so we would have to drive to the station anyway or get a taxi costing another £10. When we can easily get to Glasgow and back on £20 petrol :shrug:. Probably less. Is a public transport system really effective when driving is ALWAYS both more convenient... and cheaper? Local bus is even more ridiculous: £16 return for the 4 of us to get to town and back! It's about £3 in petrol :shrug:

me and smallest boy LT can get to glasgow and back for £13 with a railcard and the underground is cheap as chips

[Toy Soldier]

me and smallest boy LT can get to glasgow and back for £13 with a railcard and the underground is cheap as chips

The underground reminds me of the first time I went to University (I was at Glasgow Uni for 5 months when I was 18, in the midst of my parents separating and my mum descending into alcoholism) so I get triggered :worry:. The smell of it makes me feel like a lost little boy! :bawling: And that waft of warm air from the tunnel as the train is arriving. Actual PTSD or something :joker:.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The underground reminds me of the first time I went to University (I was at Glasgow Uni for 5 months when I was 18, in the midst of my parents separating and my mum descending into alcoholism) so I get triggered :worry:. The smell of it makes me feel like a lost little boy! :bawling: And that waft of warm air from the tunnel as the train is arriving. Actual PTSD or something :joker:.

I only ever go on the clockwork orange to Ibrox and have been going on it since it was moderinsed in 1980 or so. All I associate it with is the smell of alcohol and people banging on the roof of a packed cab singing "wur up tae oor knees in Fenian blood, surrender or yool die"

so i guess its up to its knees rather than on them

:think:

[Livia]

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

[Toy Soldier]

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

To be fair, though, isn't this sort of the point? War has changed; a standing army is worthless in the face of nuclear weapons, and all of the major powers have them now. A large-scale conflict involving ground troops like WW2 will never happen again. So that leaves the sort of small, tactics-based conflicts we've seen for the last 30 years... and a LARGE army isn't really necessary for those, either. An effective military force is now down to having the best tech and equipment, not the most feet in boots.

[Livia]

To be fair, though, isn't this sort of the point? War has changed; a standing army is worthless in the face of nuclear weapons, and all of the major powers have them now. A large-scale conflict involving ground troops like WW2 will never happen again. So that leaves the sort of small, tactics-based conflicts we've seen for the last 30 years... and a LARGE army isn't really necessary for those, either. An effective military force is now down to having the best tech and equipment, not the most feet in boots.

Well, yes... that's the excuses that are being given for the cuts to the military. But the military themselves, while they agree that warfare has changed, and that a massive army is no longer needed, a standing army of less than 80,000, when they are called on for all kinds of stuff is just not big enough. When the Fire Service go on strike for instance, or when the security at a major sporting event like the Olympics goes tits up, who you gonna call? When the ebola crisis started, the Royal Navy were the first people there, followed by the British Army. And the humanitarian and peacekeeping work they do, which often goes unreported because it's not controversial, is going to be hard to automatise. Furthermore, the government is trying to fill the gaps by making the Territorial Army bigger, and involving them now where only regular troops may previously have gone. Part-timers, while I don't want to diminish their great contribution, are not the same a regular soldiers.

So in conclusion, I do kind of agree that a massive standing army is no longer required, but we've gone too far the other way. The people making the cuts are civilians, with all the reasons why a smaller army is okay. But the military themselves say something else entirely. I do have a little hope in the latest Minister for Defence, even though he seems kind of young for the job, seems to be quite keen to allow our armed forces both the equipment and the manpower needed to do the job we ask of them.

[DemolitionRed]

Anyone who believes we are better off with a private healthcare system shouldn't only take a look at the costs but consider, even if they can afford an all singing dancing insurance policy, they may find the exemptions incurred over a period of years a very real problem.

Anyone who believes the NHS can't work need to do some research into what's gone on and what is still going on behind the dark doors of parliament. Neolib thinkers like May, Cameron, Johnson, Mogg and Blair want a Mont Pelerin Society where the less responsibility a government has, the better. At first it was easy, but now the public are becoming suspicious and voices are being raised.
Regarding the NHS, we have been hoodwinked to a point of no return. As our children grow older they simply won't have the same privilege's around health as we've had and I find that tragic.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Anyone who believes we are better off with a private healthcare system shouldn't only take a look at the costs but consider, even if they can afford an all singing dancing insurance policy, they may find the exemptions incurred over a period of years a very real problem.

Anyone who believes the NHS can't work need to do some research into what's gone on and what is still going on behind the dark doors of parliament. Neolib thinkers like May, Cameron, Johnson, Mogg and Blair want a Mont Pelerin Society where the less responsibility a government has, the better. At first it was easy, but now the public are becoming suspicious and voices are being raised.
Regarding the NHS, we have been hoodwinked to a point of no return. As our children grow older they simply won't have the same privilege's around health as we've had and I find that tragic.

The thread isnt about that its about whether you think public services in the UK are on their knees or not

[Mystic Mock]

Mock is still on the streets so the courts system is obviously a bloody mess.

:joker:

give me time..:hehe:

[DemolitionRed]

The thread isnt about that its about whether you think public services in the UK are on their knees or not

The NHS are very deliberately on their knees. Sorry you didn't understand that.

[Mystic Mock]

The NHS are very deliberately on their knees. Sorry you didn't understand that.

The NHS has been in trouble for awhile sadly, hopefully some MP's will rise through the ranks and sort the NHS out.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The NHS has been in trouble for awhile sadly, hopefully some MP's will rise through the ranks and sort the NHS out.

what part?

[DemolitionRed]

Its a cry we are familiar with from those in the Labour Party or on the extreme left

Edits that to include the Green Party, the Liberal Democrats and the SNP.

[DemolitionRed]

what part?

All of it!

First they broke the NHS into many parts. They did this in 2012 and confused the surfs by giving them the illusion that 'Trusts' were all about patient choice. Its easier to later dismantle smaller sections than one large part.

Next they started underfunding the now fragmented and partly privatized sections. This ensures the public get angry with the service provider and become resigned to the fact that the NHS can't carry on as it is.

The next thing and something that is an ongoing project at the moment is start charging for certain things like 'out of hours GP surgeries and longer GP appointments. These things have already been proposed.

At the same time they start rolling out health credit https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/patient-choice/personal-health-budget/Pages/about-phb.aspx Again, under the guise of 'choice' and finally, though we aren't there yet, start rolling out health insurance incentives.

[Livia]

The NHS has more spent on it now than at any time in the past; ten times what was spent on it sixty years ago. when 11% of the public services budget spent on it. That figure is now almost 30%. The fact that the population is ageing seems to have come as a bit of a shock to both the government and the NHS. In my opinion, the NHS would be more cost-effective if they managed the money better. It's run like every other public service but if it was run like a business, that might be different. And furthermore, NHS priorities are shot when they're denying cancer treatment but funding breast augmentation, sex changes and IVF, while the world is struggling with the beginning effects of overpopulation.

[Crimson Dynamo]

All of it!

First they broke the NHS into many parts. They did this in 2012 and confused the surfs by giving them the illusion that 'Trusts' were all about patient choice. Its easier to later dismantle smaller sections than one large part.

Next they started underfunding the now fragmented and partly privatized sections. This ensures the public get angry with the service provider and become resigned to the fact that the NHS can't carry on as it is.

The next thing and something that is an ongoing project at the moment is start charging for certain things like 'out of hours GP surgeries and longer GP appointments. These things have already been proposed.

At the same time they start rolling out health credit https://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/patient-choice/personal-health-budget/Pages/about-phb.aspx Again, under the guise of 'choice' and finally, though we aren't there yet, start rolling out health insurance incentives.

So you are saying the the whole of the NHS is on its knees and working as efficiently as it can?

[DemolitionRed]

So you are saying the the whole of the NHS is on its knees and working as efficiently as it can?

As a social structure... yes.

[smudgie]

Re the NHS.
Too many people to look after nowadays, we are living too long.
Too many time wasters as well.

[bots]

wake up call, the NHS isn't going to be sorted out because there just isn't enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want.

It may depress some, but the simple reality is that it is due to it's success at prolonging and extending life that it has a problem. If it was on its knees it wouldn't be saving lives, and therefore there would be less demand on it. It's simple economics

[DemolitionRed]

wake up call, the NHS isn't going to be sorted out because there just isn't enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want.

It may depress some, but the simple reality is that it is due to it's success at prolonging and extending life that it has a problem. If it was on its knees it wouldn't be saving lives, and therefore there would be less demand on it. It's simple economics

None of that is true. If you believe this then sorry but you believe the Tory lie.

[Crimson Dynamo]

None of that is true. If you believe this then sorry but you believe the Tory lie.

are you saying that there is enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want?

[Brillopad]

None of that is true. If you believe this then sorry but you believe the Tory lie.

No different to you believing all the Corbyn/Labour lies. It comes down to opinion.

[Brillopad]

Re the NHS.
Too many people to look after nowadays, we are living too long.
Too many time wasters as well.

Time wasters should be fined - I have long believed that. It may sound harsh but we have to put a stop to it and direct that money where it is actually needed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder how much is robbed out of the NHS each year?

out the back door etc...

[Withano]

Yes

[Twosugars]

Time wasters should be fined - I have long believed that. It may sound harsh but we have to put a stop to it and direct that money where it is actually needed.

agree in principle, but it may be difficult

[DemolitionRed]

are you saying that there is enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want?

No, that would be silly but that's not what I said.

Professor Richard Murphy explains it much better than I could.

"There is no limit to the amount of money a government can create if it so wishes. Money creation is, after all, costless. It is also technically limitless. That does not mean a government should be reckless. There is, of course inflation to consider. But that is what tax is for. It is government spending that creates the ability to tax. Where else, after all, does enough government created money to pay tax come from if government does not create it in the first place? Quite emphatically, it is not tax that creates the capacity for government to spend; that capacity always exists. Instead it is taxation that limits inflation when the government is spending to meet social purpose, for example, by funding the NHS. And spending in that way is always desirable, and there is always a gain to society, until the point is reached then the economy is working at its capacity, from which point the UK as a whole has been so far adrift for so long a time. That’s precisely why any constraint on NHS spending is inappropriate at present"

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/?s=privatization

[DemolitionRed]

No different to you believing all the Corbyn/Labour lies. It comes down to opinion.

There's enough fact out there for it not to be an opinion.

Do I believe Corbyn can save the NHS? No I don't.
Do Believe Corbyn will attempt to save the NHS?... yes.

That's opinion!

[Brillopad]

We give so much money away that the hardworking tax payer fork out very little of which seems to help us! (the UK) amazingly it's not rare to see government say were making NHS cuts! closing libraries! closing youth clubs! we must cut police force!

Fore example In 2016, the UK spent £13.4 billion on overseas aid, in line with the 0.7% target.

^^^ imagine what a benefit that would have been within the UK!!!

Agree Sue. We need to concentrate on our own before giving so much to overseas aid.

[Kazanne]

I think there is a lot of waste and greed,just this week there was a story of some who worked in the NHS who had ripped it off to the tune of a million quid over time,plus I know councils who spent ridiculous amounts out on sending glossy calendars out to all their tenants every year,these are not cheap calendars ,and must cost thousands,also their council vans painted with bloody Wallace and Grommit advertising how caring the council is,lol really did they actually need those vans painting? they could use that money for the repairs that should be done instead of claiming they have no money all the time,so I don't think the government alone can be blamed ,there is a LOT of greed and waste in these companies, the government will be fighting a losing battle throwing money at people who are intent on wasting and looking after themselves, but I guess some have to blame someone.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/couple-ripped-nhs-1million-scam-4706806

[Vicky.]

LT half of the things you have listed are mostly or entirely privatised... they're not government / public services :think:. Get your head out of the 1980's man!



Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system


Electricity

Privatised and comparatively expensive


Education, [e.g. state (public) schools, public universities, etc...]

Pretty much a shambles, massively under-funded in recent years, miserable staff and constant cuts.


Emergency services, (e.g. Fire, EMS, Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, etc...)

Suffering and under-funded, lots of strike action, not an attractive or competitive career path



Environmental protection

:shrug:



Health care (NHS)

Needs it's own thread tbqfh. I see a lot of people saying that it's fine because they;ve had recent good experiences with the NHS. This is entirely thanks to staff who are very committed to taking good care of their patients. It IS on it's knees. Staff are under insane amounts of pressure and things are getting worse. The fact that in most services, the staff manage to shield the public from the huge problems that the NHS is facing due to systematic and deliberate under-funding, is a credit to them. In some service areas things are genuinely horrendous for both staff and patients.

Military

Bigger than it needs to be and in my opinion, in need of systematic modernisation and a departure from Monarchy-Empire-based tradition.


Postal service

No longer a public service :facepalm:


Public bank

Improving since recession but mostly privatised?


Public broadcasting

Kill it with fire tbh.

Public library

Do they even still exist? :think:


Public security

Non-police security is almost entirely privatised.


Public transportation

Mostly privatised, also shameful and getting worse, with cuts to councils meaning that local bus services (which were often subsidised) in many areas are all but non-existent at this point. Long train journeys, the trains can be decent quality. Commuter trains and pretty much all buses are clapped out and disgusting.

Social services, (e.g. public housing, social welfare, food subsidies, etc...)

Another one that needs it's own thread. The situation with social services in almost all areas of the UK isn't just bad... it's criminal / corrupt. Welfare to be honest isn't AWFUL and could so easily be mostly fixed with a few tweaks and less focus on punitive measures and cuts to the disabled. Universal Credit was a great system on paper but the implementation was incompetent to the point of disaster and is still in a huge mess.


Telecommunications

Again LT... Not a public service, telecoms is private. [edited to add] In this case I'm not saying that's a bad thing: telecoms is actually fairly decent (compared to most countries) and also is improving. It's also well priced in recent years, especially mobile telecoms, where most of the cost is basically the handset and if you go sim-only you can get unlimited everything practically free :think:. If anything, BT's monopoly needs to CONTINUE to be dismantled. You could argue that other countries have better / faster cabled infrastructure HOWEVER - I personally think making massive upgrades there is a waste of time and money because super-fast broadband is eventually going to go completely over-the-air and cabled networking will be redundant.

Urban planning

:shrug:


Transportation infrastructure (roads etc)

Sliding, badly. Also very selective. If you live in an affluent / high council tax area councils bend over backwards to ensure the roads are decent. My village is one, the roads are immaculate... can't have all of the rich folks moving away because they keep damaging their landrovers after all. 7 miles down the road in the less-affluent villages? Actual footage of a bus avoiding a pothole:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-25-2013/Ayc_9w.gif


There are also constant issues on the motorways.



Waste management, (e.g. wastewater, solid waste, recycling, etc...)

The sewerage and water systems are extensive and generally very well run, to be fair. Recycling facilities are decent, although apparently most of it is just getting dumped anyway :umm2:. General household waste though? Getting worse and worse, we're down to 3-weekly here and possibly going to monthly. In the summer the problems with vermin / wasps / flies (and maggots) / smell are horrendous.

Water supply network

See above re: water and sewerage

Fantastic post. I agree with almost all of it except what Livia said about the military. However, if other areas still ran properly then the army would not need to be solarge to cover failings in other services. Its all about nukes now, and no matter how big someones army is, it can do nothing against a nuke tbh, and once one nutjob sets a beast off, we are all ****ed, regardless of what 'counter' weapons we have. Its all well and good to think 'oh if they fire we can fire back'..but what would it achieve really?

[DemolitionRed]

I think there is a lot of waste and greed,just this week there was a story of some who worked in the NHS who had ripped it off to the tune of a million quid over time,plus I know councils who spent ridiculous amounts out on sending glossy calendars out to all their tenants every year,these are not cheap calendars ,and must cost thousands,also their council vans painted with bloody Wallace and Grommit advertising how caring the council is,lol really did they actually need those vans painting? they could use that money for the repairs that should be done instead of claiming they have no money all the time,so I don't think the government alone can be blamed ,there is a LOT of greed and waste in these companies, the government will be fighting a losing battle throwing money at people who are intent on wasting and looking after themselves, but I guess some have to blame someone.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/couple-ripped-nhs-1million-scam-4706806

A £million quid is nothing if you compare it to the £70 billion given out in PFI most of which has ended up in offshore tax havens and guess who has to pay that high interest £70... now £80 billion back?

[Kizzy]

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

What a ridiculous comment, seriously how? How in a democracy would he do that Livia? This is just a reactionary scaremongering post that has no basis whatsoever in fact.
He could never even garner enough votes in the commons for a vote for against so why this comment, it's a nonsense.

Why must we be constantly be preparing for war? Every damn time the tories get in it's 'prepare for war' time... because they're warmongers! They love it, stomping round the globe flogging their bombs and training the troops of any country with a few spare billion.

[Mystic Mock]

what part?

Well I think that the NHS needs more staff first and foremost, there's more patients going into their Hospitals than ever before (due to the higher population nowadays obviously) and they seem to have less people actually working there to help sustain the pressure that the current workers are constantly under, and dare I say it have to then take a priority on which patients to help or not because they haven't got enough workers to try to help everyone.

This tbf has got worse under the Tories, but it did start under Labour and it's all in this weird ambition to have healthcare like the United States who expect you to pay loads of Health Insurance just to have the Doctors save your life, but of course that is a separate discussion.

[Mystic Mock]

are you saying that there is enough money to pay for EVERYTHING that anyone could possibly ever want?

Tbf the DUP got £1.5bn out of our Government so it's not out of reach that they could actually put more money into the NHS.

[Brillopad]

What a ridiculous comment, seriously how? How in a democracy would he do that Livia? This is just a reactionary scaremongering post that has no basis whatsoever in fact.
He could never even garner enough votes in the commons for a vote for against so why this comment, it's a nonsense.

Why must we be constantly be preparing for war? Every damn time the tories get in it's 'prepare for war' time... because they're warmongers! They love it, stomping round the globe flogging their bombs and training the troops of any country with a few spare billion.

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

[Mystic Mock]

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

Corbyn does concern me with how extremely left he is if you want my honest opinion, but at this point I don't think the country and the people within the country can take anymore of the Tories austerity plans or privatisation of public services for much longer. Yes they've got money back but look at how they're doing it, and also do you think that the people are benefiting from these schemes? Are we actually living our lives? Or are we slowly becoming more dependent on stuff like Jobseeker's and loans just to get by? As I've already said I understand the fears that alot of people have about Jeremy Corbyn, but personally I don't think that any of us can handle the Tories schemes for much longer, I know that this will sound silly but it's like watching a Movie villain ruling the real life situations of the UK and it's sickening to me.

I also don't like the 1984 element of Theresa May and the rest of the Tories wanting to invade people's privacy on their Phones and Computers, that to me is just disgraceful and a slippery slope. And again is something I'd moan about alot more but it's nothing to do with the discussion on this thread.

[Toy Soldier]

This is what worries me as well Mock; that the Tories have everyone whooping about saving money so much that there seems to be some sort of idea that "permanent austerity" would be a good thing. How will the country grow? How will it modernise? Even if you do believe in austerity, it is supposed to be a TEMPORARY measure and at some point there MUST be a return to investment in our infrastructure, education, and general wellbeing. If there isn't, then in a few short decades we will simply be left behind by the rest of the modern world. Towns will continue to degrade (and they are already dated and embarrassing), roads, other services will all stagnate... I don't understand why any "proud" citizen of a country would celebrate that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

This is what worries me as well Mock; that the Tories have everyone whooping about saving money so much that there seems to be some sort of idea that "permanent austerity" would be a good thing. How will the country grow? How will it modernise? Even if you do believe in austerity, it is supposed to be a TEMPORARY measure and at some point there MUST be a return to investment in our infrastructure, education, and general wellbeing. If there isn't, then in a few short decades we will simply be left behind by the rest of the modern world. Towns will continue to degrade (and they are already dated and embarrassing), roads, other services will all stagnate... I don't understand why any "proud" citizen of a country would celebrate that?

They have now created/bolstered the "we are good with the economy/labour get us into debt" thing that English voters love to vote on

wait till the next election to witness this in action

[DemolitionRed]

They have now created/bolstered the "we are good with the economy/labour get us into debt" thing that English voters love to vote on

wait till the next election to witness this in action

Public sector debt wasn't caused by Brown over spending It was caused by the global banking crisis.
Blair and Brown were running the country and allowing banks to dominate the economy the same way Major did and the same way Cameron and May are still doing.

Your hubristic comments only show how little you understand about how the country is still being run.

Keep enjoying the 'big lie'

[Kizzy]

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

You have no reason to say that whatsoever, it's just a nonsense thing to say because it could never happen. it wouldn't even get enough backing to be brought as a question for the house of commons...

If you thought about it in a realistic fashion instead of the knee jerk 'i hate corbyn' goto reaction you'd realise this.

[DemolitionRed]

In a ‘democracy’ trying every trick in the book to overturn a democratic vote. It’s a democracy when it suits.

To many Corbyn does pose a threat to the security of this country in many ways and as we all have to live here everyone has a right to a say on that.

You mean like the right we had a say on regarding austerity or the right we had a say on regarding the selling off of the NHS?

A democracy is supposed to represent its people and not divide those people down the middle. Anyone who pays any attention to politics can see that the Tory party continually and surreptitiously try to fragment and even disenfranchise democracy.

[Kizzy]

yes and oh wait you see through it all?

the lizard people and the glitterati and the masons

sure jan

I do too, many do... why can't you?

[bots]

You mean like the right we had a say on regarding austerity or the right we had a say on regarding the selling off of the NHS?

A democracy is supposed to represent its people and not divide those people down the middle. Anyone who pays any attention to politics can see that the Tory party continually and surreptitiously try to fragment and even disenfranchise democracy.

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

[Crimson Dynamo]

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

quite right BOTS

[Kizzy]

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

Ah, that's not strictly true is it? they needed the help of the money tree remember?....

That was one fiddle with democracy, the other is the changes proposed to voter ID.
It is purported to combat 'voter fraud' there was one case of voter fraud at the last election.
This change would see I think it was something like a third of voters without photo ID prevented from exercising their democratic right.

[DemolitionRed]

The conservatives set out what it was going to do, and the people voted for them in the last 2 elections. Is it only democracy when the result is a labour win?

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

[DemolitionRed]

Ah, that's not strictly true is it? they needed the help of the money tree remember?....

That was one fiddle with democracy, the other is the changes proposed to voter ID.
It is purported to combat 'voter fraud' there was one case of voter fraud at the last election.
This change would see I think it was something like a third of voters without photo ID prevented from exercising their democratic right.

And if that's not undemocratic I don't know what is!

[Crimson Dynamo]

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

do you have a date that was specified for each of these?

[bots]

So what happened to the extra £8billion for the NHS?
What happened to their promise to ensure the NHS has enough staff to meet patients’ needs?
What happened to their promise to end child poverty?
How have they protected school funding like they promissed?
They promised to boost mental health funding but have done no such thing.
They promised to recover £500million a year from migrants who use the NHS. It never happened.
May pledged to reform the criminal justice system and tackle race inequality within it but that idea was later dropped.

Who would of thought so many promises would turn out to be worthless.

and labour have always carried out their pledges?

The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact

[Brillopad]

You have no reason to say that whatsoever, it's just a nonsense thing to say because it could never happen. it wouldn't even get enough backing to be brought as a question for the house of commons...

If you thought about it in a realistic fashion instead of the knee jerk 'i hate corbyn' goto reaction you'd realise this.

I have every reason. It isn't just about nuclear weapons but his views on all sorts of issues that could put our security at risk. He is not the pure and honest old man you think he is despite your repeated attempts to convince us all he is.

[Brillopad]

do you have a date that was specified for each of these?

Good point. The whole lot should have apparently been handed over within weeks. :shrug:

[jet]

and labour have always carried out their pledges?

The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact

Absolutely...and if Labour get into power they will f it all up again, and then the Cons will be voted in to sort it all out once again...and be blasted for their efforts.

[DemolitionRed]

and labour have always carried out their pledges?


No, especially Blair and Brown but that doesn't excuse the present government.



The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact

How is the economy making progress? And how will having a surplus help our economy? Having a surplus will see more and more big industries closing because you can't have QE when you've reached full capacity. If you think the government is going to start spending, think again. The government had every ability to spend but chose to keep taking.

and of course, it depends on your perspective. If you were a disabled person who'd had your services removed or librarian who had lost every library within driving distance. If you'd just lost your job because you were employed at Northamptonshire county council; a fireman, police officer or soldier who was now surplus to requirement. If you were on a salary that hadn't kept up with inflation or if you had to work three jobs on a zero hour contract for a minimum wage and still not afford your London rent. If you were homeless or unemployed but desperately trying to find salaried job you wouldn't agree to any progress being made.

The cost of austerity measures has done untold damage to peoples lives and equal damage to our economy. Unnecessary Austerity measures have created a small island with growing poverty... Just because you're okay doesn't mean its not happened/happening.

The post crisis recession still continues and its not going to improve anytime soon.

[DemolitionRed]

Absolutely...and if Labour get into power they will f it all up again, and then the Cons will be voted in to sort it all out once again...and be blasted for their efforts.

Ok well fcuk Labour but lets stop this government from robbing us. I don't care who's in power providing they can pull us away from what we presently have.

[DemolitionRed]

This is what worries me as well Mock; that the Tories have everyone whooping about saving money so much that there seems to be some sort of idea that "permanent austerity" would be a good thing. How will the country grow? How will it modernise? Even if you do believe in austerity, it is supposed to be a TEMPORARY measure and at some point there MUST be a return to investment in our infrastructure, education, and general wellbeing. If there isn't, then in a few short decades we will simply be left behind by the rest of the modern world. Towns will continue to degrade (and they are already dated and embarrassing), roads, other services will all stagnate... I don't understand why any "proud" citizen of a country would celebrate that?

Scary post because every word is spot on.

[Kizzy]

and labour have always carried out their pledges?

The conservatives have concentrated on getting the economy right, we were ****ed after labour were in power, and it wasn't just down to the recession, it was labours mismanagement that caused us to suffer so much. If you want to blame anyone for the position we are now in, blame labour, because everything we are going through now is directly related to their actions.

The tories are making progress on the economy, that is a fact

It was, do your own research into 2008... It was a worldwide recession your reluctance to acknowledge that smacks of ignorance.

The conservatives have not concentrated on the economy there are 101 things they could have done to improve the economy rather than slice the legs from the support structures of those in need. It was not Labours mismanagement that has led to 10yrs of austerity. We are in the black but guess what Hammond says austerity is to continue....why? Beecause not enough undesirables are dead yet! Austerity is killing people, that is the only fact here.

Everything we are going through now relates directly to tory mismanagement, ANYTHING name it and I'll tel you how... from privatisations to outsourcing to cuts to underfunding to quangos to deregulations to brexit.

[Kizzy]

Absolutely...and if Labour get into power they will f it all up again, and then the Cons will be voted in to sort it all out once again...and be blasted for their efforts.

How.... Literally how could they eff it all up any more than it is?

What is 'the efforts'? I hear 'oh what do you want the 70s back?' YES! I do, the 70s were ace people had jobs, housing and a decent standard of living the country made money from taxation as well as nationalised services... now we have shareholders and 0hr contracts! We have been bent over and shafted!

(sorry for the language I work in a gatehouse)

[Crimson Dynamo]

It was, do your own research into 2008... It was a worldwide recession your reluctance to acknowledge that smacks of ignorance.

The conservatives have not concentrated on the economy there are 101 things they could have done to improve the economy rather than slice the legs from the support structures of those in need. It was not Labours mismanagement that has led to 10yrs of austerity. We are in the black but guess what Hammond says austerity is to continue....why? Beecause not enough undesirables are dead yet! Austerity is killing people, that is the only fact here.

Everything we are going through now relates directly to tory mismanagement, ANYTHING name it and I'll tel you how... from privatisations to outsourcing to cuts to underfunding to quangos to deregulations to brexit.

What are "we going through now"?

(and let me remind you Brexit was the decision of the voting public)

[Kizzy]

What are "we going through now"?

(and let me remind you Brexit was the decision of the voting public)

We are going through a socio economic blender, do some research LT.

The result was (as far as we know) the idea of just over half of the voters, the decision to hold the referendum was not.

My theory is it was a foregone conclusion to be honest, I don't think for on minute the govt would have risked this if it wasn't what they ultimately wanted, even the people who feigned remain in the tory camps were bluffing.

[Brillopad]

We are going through a socio economic blender, do some research LT.

The result was (as far as we know) the idea of just over half of the voters, the decision to hold the referendum was not.

My theory is it was a foregone conclusion to be honest, I don't think for on minute the govt would have risked this if it wasn't what they ultimately wanted, even the people who feigned remain in the tory camps were bluffing.

Just over half is more than just under. The overs have it - that is what a public vote is all about. Or do you want to change the rules this time because it didn’t go your way.

I can only imagine your words if it had been the other way round and the leavers were throwing such a tantrum.

[DemolitionRed]

Just over half is more than just under. The overs have it - that is what a public vote is all about. Or do you want to change the rules this time because it didn’t go your way.

I can only imagine your words if it had been the other way round and the leavers were throwing such a tantrum.

Jesus Christ, is that all you've got.

[DemolitionRed]

We are going through a socio economic blender, do some research LT.

The result was (as far as we know) the idea of just over half of the voters, the decision to hold the referendum was not.

My theory is it was a foregone conclusion to be honest, I don't think for on minute the govt would have risked this if it wasn't what they ultimately wanted, even the people who feigned remain in the tory camps were bluffing.

Remind yourself of that saying Kizzy...“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

[Kizzy]

Just over half is more than just under. The overs have it - that is what a public vote is all about. Or do you want to change the rules this time because it didn’t go your way.

I can only imagine your words if it had been the other way round and the leavers were throwing such a tantrum.

That wasn't the issue... but thanks for stating the obvious :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

so 4 pages in and not one example of a service on its knees

just a lot of anecdotal fluff

[Kizzy]

Should there be any it would be from the wrong source, or dubious stats... rather prove it is in full health and I'll believe you.

[Beso]

Are they **** as like...its all just bawbags moaning to be relevent...red tapes the only thing ****ing things up...you probably need a comfirmation letter to confirm your original confirmation letter...ah wish everyone out there in the world would just ****..am fed up of moaning news stories..

[Toy Soldier]

Are they **** as like...its all just bawbags moaning to be relevent...red tapes the only thing ****ing things up...you probably need a comfirmation letter to confirm your original confirmation letter...ah wish everyone out there in the world would just ****..am fed up of moaning news stories..Parmy still enjoying his birthday festivities. Aww.