What should we do about Russia ?

[Kazanne]

What do you think we should do about Russia if it is found they have had a hand in the poisoning of the two people who are critically ill ? Do we pull out of the world cup,hit them with sanctions etc,how should we deal with it ?

[Ammi]

..I think sanctions are something that should be looked at, Kaz...but similar to another thread atm and my thoughts there...The Brexit vote has made us quite isolated also...so care and thought would also be the thing much more atm, I feel when we think about sanctions etc...

[thesheriff443]

Russians own most London, I saw the back end of a program a couple of nights ago, putin has made himself one of if not the richest man in the world.

In real terms nothing will be done.

[bots]

Politics interfering with sport is a big no no. We also rely on the Russian gangsters to come here and launder their money, so any measures we do take will be completely ineffectual and purely for show. That is of course why they had the balls to do it, they know we can't do anything.

[Nicky91]

Russia is great :love: :love:

[Underscore]

Russia is great :love: :love:

No they're not

[bots]

No they're not

There are many, many really nice Russian people who are kind and generous. Like any country it has it's share of unpleasant types and their government leaves a lot to be desired. Russia is a huge country, with a huge and diverse population, don't be so quick to write off it's people.

[Underscore]

There are many, many really nice Russian people who are kind and generous. Like any country it has it's share of unpleasant types and their government leaves a lot to be desired. Russia is a huge country, with a huge and diverse population, don't be so quick to write off it's people.

I'm not talking about the people though. I'm talking about the government and what it enacts.

Also we'll soon see how many Russians are undesirable in the election this week.

[Kazanne]

..I think sanctions are something that should be looked at, Kaz...but similar to another thread atm and my thoughts there...The Brexit vote has made us quite isolated also...so care and thought would also be the thing much more atm, I feel when we think about sanctions etc...

I don't know too much about Russia tbh,all I know is they seem to have killed someone like this before, and a lot of people seem to be scared of them,I know very little about Putin other than he seems to reign with an iron fist, just trying to find out what I can.

[DemolitionRed]

Over the past 20 years there's been 14 Russian assassinations on our soil and what have we done? I was working near Weybridge when Alexander Perepilichny was murdered and as an ex estate agent I know estate agents in that area are on the continual lookout for extremely wealthy Russians. A lot of mansions in Weybridge, Sunningdale and Bagshot are owned by Russians billionaires and millionaires who benefitted from the Kremlins wrongdoings and for too long they've been given anonymity regarding how they got their wealth.

Whilst I don't deny there are some nice Russians living here. There are far too many oligarch's. We can't carry on being a clearing house for corrupt dirty money. A Russian can become a domicile in Britain for a £million.

I doubt this assassin or assassins have flown back to Russia. Its likely they were living here under the lap of luxury until called upon by the Russian government.

What we are not going to do (and I think we should) is stop the oligarch's because the money is too attractive. Since the end of the Cold War these people have filtered something like £16billion into our country.

[Beso]

We should applaud them, this mans actions and others like him can cost the lives of thousands, something he had no qualms about ignoring for cash.

[Northern Monkey]

What can we do?

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov

[Kazanne]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Markov

Thankyou LT that was insightful:wavey:

[Kazanne]

Over the past 20 years there's been 14 Russian assassinations on our soil and what have we done? I was working near Weybridge when Alexander Perepilichny was murdered and as an ex estate agent I know estate agents in that area are on the continual lookout for extremely wealthy Russians. A lot of mansions in Weybridge, Sunningdale and Bagshot are owned by Russians billionaires and millionaires who benefitted from the Kremlins wrongdoings and for too long they've been given anonymity regarding how they got their wealth.

Whilst I don't deny there are some nice Russians living here. There are far too many oligarch's. We can't carry on being a clearing house for corrupt dirty money. A Russian can become a domicile in Britain for a £million.

I doubt this assassin or assassins have flown back to Russia. Its likely they were living here under the lap of luxury until called upon by the Russian government.

What we are not going to do (and I think we should) is stop the oligarch's because the money is too attractive. Since the end of the Cold War these people have filtered something like £16billion into our country.


I didn't know that either :shocked:

[arista]

What can we do?


Yes whatever the PM says today (around 4:30PM, Parliament )
Putin will still be Elected again.

[Kizzy]

I saw the interview with Marina Litvenenco her take is that the govt are taking dirty money from Russian oligarchs in the UK. She warned the govt not to align with certain people and I say that is good advice.

[Beso]

I heard a mention of israeli spys could be involved.

[Twosugars]

atm, boycotting world cup would hurt coz it is putin's fave project and it would be a statement on the world stage
plus it'd save english fans from going through the usual hope-despair cycle

[DemolitionRed]

I heard a mention of israeli spys could be involved.

Why? Tel Aviv is one of the safest havens for ex Russian spy's.

[bots]

We can get all self righteous about someone being attacked on British soil, and it's fair enough to be upset about it, but if you look at any of those that have been targeted, with the exception of Skripal's daughter, they all have blood on their hands. What goes around usually comes around

[Beso]

Why? Tel Aviv is one of the safest havens for ex Russian spy's.

Dont ask me, ask itv news, they said it...or at least the latest expert suggested it..

[GiRTh]

Russians own most London, I saw the back end of a program a couple of nights ago, putin has made himself one of if not the richest man in the world.

In real terms nothing will be done.There are some Russian commentators who say its not even close, Putin is by far the richest man in the world. Its all very secret but the Berezovsky v Abramovich case in 2012 showed the depth of Putin's reach. And of course Berezovsky died under mysterious circumstances. Its a fascinating subject

Its also thought that Abramovich bought Chelsea to hide his money from Putin in a non threatening manner. Berezovsky had put most of his wealth in a news network that had been critical of Putin so there had been friction between the two. If its true then buying Chelsea was a masterstroke

On topic. We cant and wont do anything about Russia as many have commented the Russian Oligarchs club has considerable wealth in the UK.

[bots]

There are some Russian commentators who say its not even close, Putin is by far the richest man in the world. Its all very secret but the Berezovsky v Abramovich case in 2012 showed the depth of Putin's reach. And of course Berezovsky died under mysterious circumstances. Its a fascinating subject

Its also thought that Abramovich bought Chelsea to hide his money from Putin in a non threatening manner. Berezovsky had put most of his wealth in a news network that had been critical of Putin so there had been friction between the two. If its true then buying Chelsea was a masterstroke

On topic. We cant and wont do anything about Russia as many have commented the Russian Oligarchs club has considerable wealth in the UK.

Abramovitch came to "an agreement" with Putin. He paid something like 3 billion and that ensured his ongoing safety from facing a prison sentence etc. Berezovsky refused to pay and also set himself up as a political opponent. Not the smartest of moves.

Buying chelsea was all about money laundering, hence why he didn't care how much he paid for a player, as any money selling them on then became clean

[GiRTh]

Abramovitch came to "an agreement" with Putin. He paid something like 3 billion and that ensured his ongoing safety from facing a prison sentence etc. Berezovsky refused to pay and also set himself up as a political opponent. Not the smartest of moves.

Buying chelsea was all about money laundering, hence why he didn't care how much he paid for a player, as any money selling them on then became cleanAgree. Its all speculation and we cant prove any of it nor are there any hard news items backing up these claims but it does show the extent of Putins reach and control after he took power.

[Twosugars]

We can get all self righteous about someone being attacked on British soil, and it's fair enough to be upset about it, but if you look at any of those that have been targeted, with the exception of Skripal's daughter, they all have blood on their hands. What goes around usually comes around

As a sovereign country we can't allow foreign powers to execute people here as they please. It's a matter of principle. We'd be a laughing stock if we did.

[arista]

As a sovereign country we can't allow foreign powers to execute people here as they please. It's a matter of principle. We'd be a laughing stock if we did.


Sure
but they will never have 100% Proof
as another nation may have done this
using bought Russian Nerve Gear
or made their own Nerve Gear in another nation,
then the UK would be in the wrong.

[arista]

Russia 'highly likely' to be behind spy poisoning, PM says

https://news.sky.com/story/live-pm-set-to-blame-kremlin-as-she-chairs-spy-poisoning-meeting-11286994

[Toy Soldier]

Lol. Literally nothing at all.

[Twosugars]

Sure
but they will never have 100% Proof
as another nation may have done this
using bought Russian Nerve Gear
or made their own Nerve Gear in another nation,
then the UK would be in the wrong.
The investigation is not over, let's see what they find out.

[arista]

The investigation is not over, let's see what they find out.


Of course
but be this Weds
the PM has a Conclusion
much the same as she has spoken right now.


Russia is one nation that makes the nerve gear
What about the Others?

[bots]

Of course
but be this Weds
the PM has a Conclusion
much the same as she has spoken right now.


Russia is one nation that makes the nerve gear
What about the Others?

Nerve agents are highly controlled. This particular variant was Russian state manufactured. That's all we really need to know. It is the Russian states responsibility.

As to what we can do about it, there is nothing we can do that has any meaningful consequence.

[arista]

Nerve agents are highly controlled. This particular variant was Russian state manufactured. That's all we really need to know. It is the Russian states responsibility.

As to what we can do about it, there is nothing we can do that has any meaningful consequence.


Yes that was stated days ago.
Of Course ,Russia says they did not do it
So the PM must do something herself,
Expel Russian Diplomats, should be one measure


Will that change anything?

UK Diplomats in Russia will then get kicked out etc

[Twosugars]

She could do something, the question is whether she's up to it.
I mean freezing assets etc

I think it was a mistake not to do more after Litvinienko. Putin felt he could get away with it so he carried on.

[arista]

She could do something, the question is whether she's up to it.
I mean freezing assets etc

I think it was a mistake not to do more after Litvinienko. Putin felt he could get away with it so he carried on.


That was a New Labour feck Up.

Putin will be Elected again on Sunday
no one can stop him.
Blair got on well with Putin (as shown in the recent BBC2HD Docu on Putin)

[Matthew.]

Russia is great :love: :love:

right

[arista]

Russia is great :love: :love:


Sure Nicky
but its not against the Russian Nation


Its a about the the Leader Putin.

[kirklancaster]

Lol. Literally nothing at all.

:laugh: Lolling with you because I agree - ZILCH.

[Twosugars]

That was a New Labour feck Up.

Putin will be Elected again on Sunday
no one can stop him.
Blair got on well with Putin (as shown in the recent BBC2HD Docu on Putin)

Well, of course he will be elected.
UK's (Con and Lab, and the West in general) attitude to Russia is not consistent and Putin takes advantage.

[Twosugars]

:laugh: Lolling with you because I agree - ZILCH.

is it a lolling matter? :shrug:
so you think we should not do anything?

[jet]

Corbyn has proved he is not fit to be a PM, his forte is always going to be that of a mud slinging backbencher. Thank goodness other Labour members realised the significance of what had happened and showed their disgust at his pathetic opportunistic point scoring speech.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/12/russia-jeremy-corbyn-managed-unite-mps-disgust-opportunism/

The Prime Minister had just solemnly updated the Commons about attempted murder on British soil by, in all likelihood, a foreign enemy. But, far from setting aside party differences in the name of unity, the Leader of the Opposition was seizing the opportunity to score points against his political opponents. Indeed, to judge from his manner, he sounded more worked up about his political opponents than he did about the attempted murder.
The disbelieving silence was soon replaced by disbelieving anger……..


......“It would put our national security at risk,” said John Woodcock (Lab, Barrow & Furness), through gritted teeth, “if [Britain] were led by anyone who did not understand the gravity of the threat which Russia poses to the nation.” This earned him a roar of indignant approval.

“There are circumstances in which we take party-political differences of opinion,” sniffed Chris Leslie (Lab, Nottingham East). “But when our country is under attack, that is just not appropriate.” Another angry cheer.

“Does the PM agree,” asked Phil Wilson (Lab, Sedgefield), “that there is no place for honourable members to appear on Russia Today? It is a propaganda mouthpiece for the Russian state.” This prompted a full-throated “hear, hear”. Meanwhile, Mr Corbyn sat with his chin on his hand, silently smouldering.

[Tom4784]

Theresa May vs Putin

http://musicbiz101wp.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/giphy-1.gif

dU7GoCKSQfg

[Barry.]

I am worried. Russia could be dangerous.

[Toy Soldier]

is it a lolling matter? :shrug:
so you think we should not do anything?The UK is in literally no position to do anything at all about Russia, and certainly not over what I'm sorry to say is (in global terms) a very minor incident.

I can only assume that the idea that the UK can "do something about" Russia stems from the same place as someone's lusicrous suggestion in another thread that Britain is a "global super power"; i.e. A complete misunderstanding of where we sit on the global hierarchy. Like someone forgot to post the memo that Britain WAS powerful at the height of the British empire... But those days are over.

So it's not really a matter of "should" morally, I guess. We CAN'T "do anything about Russia", and we shouldn't try because the attempt would cause nothing but harm.

DEFINITELY not over something that is quite blatantly an internal Russian political issue that happens to have spilled over. Its not like they're attacking the UK.

[Nicky91]

Sure Nicky
but its not against the Russian Nation


Its a about the the Leader Putin.

yeah Putin, he's like a god so damn hot :drool: :love:

[bots]

The UK is in literally no position to do anything at all about Russia, and certainly not over what I'm sorry to say is (in global terms) a very minor incident.

I can only assume that the idea that the UK can "do something about" Russia stems from the same place as someone's lusicrous suggestion in another thread that Britain is a "global super power"; i.e. A complete misunderstanding of where we sit on the global hierarchy. Like someone forgot to post the memo that Britain WAS powerful at the height of the British empire... But those days are over.

So it's not really a matter of "should" morally, I guess. We CAN'T "do anything about Russia", and we shouldn't try because the attempt would cause nothing but harm.

DEFINITELY not over something that is quite blatantly an internal Russian political issue that happens to have spilled over. Its not like they're attacking the UK.

We can do things like asset freezing, throwing out diplomats, making it more difficult for Russians to enter the UK. We can say ... hey Russia, we are jolly upset about this. Will that stop them doing it again? No. Will it inconvenience them? Maybe a little. That's about it.

The world cup is being hosted in Russia so lets boycott it ..... Politics should never ever interfere with sport. So, it's a big No No. Let's show Russia how upset we are by stopping Prince William attending .... yeah that's really going to cause a seismic shock.

The bottom line is we can implement measures as a face saving exercise, but they will mean squat to anyone.

[Toy Soldier]

We can do things like asset freezing, throwing out diplomats, making it more difficult for Russians to enter the UK. We can say ... hey Russia, we are jolly upset about this. Will that stop them doing it again? No. Will it inconvenience them? Maybe a little. That's about it.

The world cup is being hosted in Russia so lets boycott it ..... Politics should never ever interfere with sport. So, it's a big No No. Let's show Russia how upset we are by stopping Prince William attending .... yeah that's really going to cause a seismic shock.

The bottom line is we can implement measures as a face saving exercise, but they will mean squat to anyone.But Russia IS still a super-power and also a huge marketplace... So yeah, we could put sanctions on them, technically... Except that the UK ceasing trade would have an insignificant impact on the Russia economy, would have MORE impact on the UK economy (although to be fair still not very significant) and would basically be kicking the bear for a frankly not very good reason. I mean I know it might seem bad but every country is involved in political assassination, its naive to think otherwise. It would be different if they had assassinated a UK political figure or something but... Basically, this is just internal Russian crap that happened to spill over into a UK city. Obviously the fact that a UK police officer was collateral damage is horrendous, but again, let's not start pretending that all countries aren't guilty of causing significant collateral damage in other nations.

[Kazanne]

yeah Putin, he's like a god so damn hot :drool: :love:

:laugh: Really Nicky ? He could go in the 'weird crush' thread.

[Northern Monkey]

But Russia IS still a super-power and also a huge marketplace... So yeah, we could put sanctions on them, technically... Except that the UK ceasing trade would have an insignificant impact on the Russia economy, would have MORE impact on the UK economy (although to be fair still not very significant) and would basically be kicking the bear for a frankly not very good reason. I mean I know it might seem bad but every country is involved in political assassination, its naive to think otherwise. It would be different if they had assassinated a UK political figure or something but... Basically, this is just internal Russian crap that happened to spill over into a UK city. Obviously the fact that a UK police officer was collateral damage is horrendous, but again, let's not start pretending that all countries aren't guilty of causing significant collateral damage in other nations.

I tend to agree.I reckon British,US,Russian and god knows how many other countries secret services have been doing this stuff for years.Only when Russia does it they do it not so covertly.They use nerve agents and radioactive materials which they know will be traced back to them.I think they do it this way to send a message.Just like when they send aircraft and ships over to ping our radar.
The problem with their methods is that they ramp up tensions.They force our PM into a situation where she has to react somehow so we as a country don’t appear weak.It also gets our politicians putting huge pressure on the PM to ‘do something’.Our problem is that there’s not much we can do unilaterally.It has to be a Nato response to have any impactful effect.As you say though it’s not wise to poke the bear too much over something like this I don’t think.The PM is in a tricky situation really.

[Kazanne]

It will be interesting to see if Russia respond to the PMs midnight deadline.

[Niamh.]

It will be interesting to see if Russia respond to the PMs midnight deadline.

What is she going to do if they don't though? (not being smart, I mean what is she actually going to do)

[bots]

What is she going to do if they don't though? (not being smart, I mean what is she actually going to do)

Anything she does will be to save face, nothing more. We are hardly going to declare war on Russia over an incident as minor as this. Russia have wanted a more relaxed reciprocal visa arrangement with the UK and were hoping to implement that for the upcoming world cup. I would imagine that will be the first thing to bite the dust

[Kazanne]

What is she going to do if they don't though? (not being smart, I mean what is she actually going to do)

Iv'e no idea Niamh,but she will have to be seen to do something ,otherwise she will be demonized even more than she is,I don't envy her job at all.

[Niamh.]

Anything she does will be to save face, nothing more. We are hardly going to declare war on Russia over an incident as minor as this. Russia have wanted a more relaxed reciprocal visa arrangement with the UK and were hoping to implement that for the upcoming world cup. I would imagine that will be the first thing to bite the dust

They shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any sporting events imo because of their reputation for fixing results, drugging and especially in regards to soccer the racism.

[Northern Monkey]

I don’t like the rhetoric i’m hearing on the news tbh.
Saying under international law this would be classed as an armed attack which gives us the right to self defence by force.
This was a guy on Sky News.Is he fecking insane?

[Livia]

I'd like to post this article from last September in case anyone was wondering why Jeremy Corbyn has been so quiet...

In 2015 he (rightly) attacked Saudi Arabia's human rights record. He praised the Obama administration's nuclear deal with Iran. He attacked "the foul and despicable crimes committed by Isil and by the Assad government, including barrel bombs being dropped on civilian targets", but without mentioning Assad's backer, the supplier of those barrel bombs: Vladimir Putin.

In 2016, he attacked Saudi Arabia's war in the Yemen and promised to suspend arms sales to the Saudis and other countries which commit human rights abuses or war crimes. No other international issue was mentioned at all, apart from Brexit, but this was discussed only in domestic terms.
In 2017, he attacked President Trump on climate change. He again attacked the cruel Saudi war in the Yemen, the crushing of democracy in Egypt and Bahrain, and, without blaming anyone in particular, "the tragic loss of life in Congo". He called on Burmese leader Aung San Suu Kyi to end the violence against Muslims in her country. He called for the UN secretary general to create dialogue between the United States and North Korea to "wind down the deeply dangerous confrontation over the Korean peninsula", although even here he carefully avoided any criticism of the North Korean dynastic dictator, who has starved and brutalised his own people while creating a long-range nuclear capability. He supported Palestine. He went back to Trump, calling for Britain to be a "candid friend" and publicly attack his policies on immigration, race, religion and pollution.

But there was no such suggestion of candour towards Putin. The speech set out a foreign policy of preaching and even insults for the leader of our biggest ally, and silence towards the leader of our biggest threat.

None of the three speeches gave any endorsement to Nato or confirmed that Britain, under his premiership, would fulfil its obligations towards each member of that alliance. I could not find any such endorsement online either, just a long history of his calls for Nato to be dissolved and for some kind of neutral or demilitarised zone on Russia's long borders. If that policy means anything, it means conceding to Putin a veto over the right of any adjacent country to invite allies to help defend its frontiers.

Since Corbyn has not talked about Putin and Russia in parliament, or to party conference, or during this year's general election, one has to search online for his views on them. I simply could not find a spontaneous, unprompted criticism of Putin.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/10/09/digging-into-corbyn-s-silence-on-putin

[Tom4784]

There's very little we can do, we're in a weak position and Russia doesn't need to pay any attention to anything we say or do. We can't do anything against them really.

[Kizzy]

Hmmm this is very dangerous, what else could w have other than dialogue? Which to me sounds nothing like something trump would say.... the alternative doesn't bear thinking about :/

'The Labour leader “sounded like President Trump” in calling for dialogue with Vladimir Putin when the Russian double agent and his daughter had been left in “mortal danger” by the nerve-agent attack, Mr Miliband warned.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-miliband-jeremy-corbyn-rusian-spy-poisoning-sergei-skripal-commons-theresa-may-tory-donors-a8252991.html

[Kizzy]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/13/russian-exile-nikolai-glushkov-found-dead-at-his-london-home

[Underscore]

T May has the support of not only America, but NATO and France have also come out in support of her.

She has good clout now

[montblanc]

Russia is great :love: :love:
yeah Putin, he's like a god so damn hot :drool: :love:

:laugh2:

[Twosugars]

posting a discussion piece from the Guardian yesterday
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/12/10-possible-british-responses-to-russia-over-the-sergei-skripal-affair

10 possible British responses to Russia over the Sergei Skripal affair
How could the UK punish Russia effectively? Here is an escalating list of potential measures

In a memorandum sent this month to the foreign affairs select committee, before the allegations of poisoning in Salisbury emerged, the Foreign Office said Russia was increasingly defining itself in opposition to the west.

Nevertheless the FCO said: “We want to reduce risk, talk about our differences, and ... as P5 members [permanent members of the UN security council], we want to engage constructively with Russia in the interests of security and stability, including on pressing issues such as North Korea and Iran. We are also working with Russia to ensure a safe and secure World Cup for visiting fans, with UK-Russia police cooperation under way ahead of the tournament”.

The events in Salisbury change that calculus, and in the words of the former national security adviser Lord Ricketts, the task now is to “punish Russia in a way that will make Vladimir Putin sit up and take notice”.

The full spectrum of options will be available to the national security committee on Monday, and in the end cabinet ministers’ decisions will be determined by how unequivocal the intelligence agencies choose to be in attributing responsibility to Russia, and agents of Putin’s government.

The question is how much the UK can achieve unilaterally, and how much requires wider EU, Nato and US support, something that will test UK diplomatic heft in a pre-Brexit era. The poisoning of a Russian double agent in a British cathedral city makes news, but many western politicians will be guided by bigger strategic choices including relations over Syria, Iran, Ukraine and commerce.

In ascending order, the UK’s potential options are:

1) Expulsion of diplomats
A minimalist option deployed by David Cameron’s government after the poisoning with polonium of Alexander Litvinenko in 2006. Expulsion of the ambassador would be a major step, but would leave the UK bereft of a high-level conduit to Moscow. Retaliation, including the expulsion of the UK ambassador from Russia, would probably follow, putting UK relations in a deep freeze.

2) Ask Ofcom to declare that Russian media outlets such as RT are not fit to hold a broadcasting licence
Public figures including shadow cabinet members, or the football manager José Mourinho, could be formally encouraged to pull out of the lucrative contracts they have signed to appear on RT. Such a move would be welcomed at least in France, where strong measures have been taken against fake news after allegations of Russian interference in the French presidential elections.

3) Seek support in the EU for sports officials not to attend the World Cup
This would not involve a boycott by footballers, but, in any case, many countries are unlikely to want to follow suit.

4) Introduce amendments to the sanctions and anti-money laundering bill

The legislation could be amended to allow stronger sanctions against human rights abusers, such as the persecutors of Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian tax accountant who died in jail in Russia after revealing details of massive state-sponsored fraud.

The Foreign Office says it already has full confiscatory powers, but under pressure from Tory backbenchers such as Richard Benyon, and the Europe minister, Sir Alan Duncan, said ministers were minded to support a Magnitsky clause once the bill reaches report stage and the technical legal definitions of gross human rights abuse have been resolved. But ministers see this as a symbolic act to assuage public opinion.

5) Freeze assets of Russian oligarchs unable to explain sources of London property wealth
This would be legally risky and might hit as many Putin opponents as allies.

6) Seek further EU-wide sanctions on Russia
Russia, country under the most sanctions in the world apart from North Korea, has proved resilient to punitive measures. It is often a battle to persuade Germany, Italy and Greece to maintain existing EU sanctions against Russia over Ukraine. Most experts say these sanctions reduced Russian growth by only 1% last year. In a recent report the Estonian intelligence agency said Putin “uses western sanctions to shield himself from criticism of a failed economic policy”, saying they help “to some degree to paper over the fundamental weaknesses in the economy”.

In the US, sanctions are being driven by Congress, not the White House, mainly through the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act passed in August. The law aims to punish Russia for its alleged meddling in the 2016 US presidential election.

In support of the act, Congress demanded the US Treasury name and shame those who had benefited from close association with Putin and put them on notice that they could be targeted for sanctions, or more sanctions, in the future. No one on the list has been put under sanctions, and it appears to have been derived from a Forbes magazine list of Russian businessmen.

7) Step up Nato presence on the Russian border
The British army already has a four-year rotational presence, but moves closer to Belarus would send a signal.

The Trump administration says it has already asked to increase funding for the European Deterrence Initiative, a Barack Obama-era programme aimed at bolstering Nato’s defences against Russia, by almost $2bn. The White House says it has provided the Ukrainian military with extra arms for east Ukraine.

Nato can also step up the strategic pressure on Moscow by speeding the process of admitting Ukraine into provisional Nato membership through agreeing a membership action plan. Similar encouragement can be offered in the Balkans, a key area of conflict with Russia. The EU foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, is visiting Ukraine this week on the fourth anniversary of the annexation of Crimea.

8) Designate Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism
In the US, designation results in a variety of unilateral sanctions, including a ban on arms-related exports and sales, prohibitions on economic assistance, and other punitive measures.

9) Cut Russian banks off from Swift
Some Russian banks linked to Iran have been cut off from the international system for the exchange of financial data (Swift). This might weaken Russia’s ability to trade internationally, but Russian banks have switched to a Russian payment system called SPFS set up with larger non-G7 countries.

10) Leak or publish classified material on the scale of alleged money laundering by Putin and his allies
The UK intelligence services have access to a large volume of material, some open sourced, setting out where Putin, his family and business entourage have placed money abroad. It would be possible for the UK government to give an official imprimatur to such information. The downside is that it would be viewed as an attempt to interfere in the current Russian presidential election campaign. Publishing personal information on rival political leaders has been seen as off limits, and might only prompt unwelcome reprisals aimed at UK politicians.

[Toy Soldier]

We're blatantly headed for cold war 2.0 aren't we.

[arista]

Russia has said its 10 days notice
needed.
So by midnight tonight,
not expecting anything from Russia.


Also they asked for a sample
of the Nerve Agent
but no response from the UK.

[DemolitionRed]

@4) Introduce amendments to the sanctions and anti-money laundering bill

The legislation could be amended to allow stronger sanctions against human rights abusers, such as the persecutors of Sergei Magnitsky, a Russian tax accountant who died in jail in Russia after revealing details of massive state-sponsored fraud.

The Foreign Office says it already has full confiscatory powers, but under pressure from Tory backbenchers such as Richard Benyon, and the Europe minister, Sir Alan Duncan, said ministers were minded to support a Magnitsky clause once the bill reaches report stage and the technical legal definitions of gross human rights abuse have been resolved. But ministers see this as a symbolic act to assuage public opinion.

That's ridiculous. All the government need to do is search for Russian companies registered in the UK who remain anonymous and have never traded over here and confiscate those companies. If nobody is willing to report them and its true, a none trading company has to be reported before something can be done, then all they need to do is set up a registered company, make a few transactions whilst finding the culprits, of which they have full knowledge and reporting them!

[jet]

https://news.sky.com/story/spy-poisoning-novichok-inventor-says-hundreds-could-be-at-risk-for-years-11287880

Dr Vil Mirzayanov is a chemist who ran the technical counter-intelligence department in Russia's chemical weapons institute.

He helped make "novichok", the class of nerve agents the British government says was used to poison defected spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

The doctor said that even minuscule amounts could affect victims, and that symptoms could develop "in years".

But responding to an inquiry from Sky News, Dr Jenny Harries, Deputy Medical Director at Public Health England, said: "PHE has been working very closely with the police and national experts on chemical weapons since the start of the incident and our risk assessment is based on knowledge of the chemical used.

"Our advice remains that the risk to the general public is low."




Very worrying and confusing, certainly so for those affected.

[Maru]

I don't know that our current administration would retaliate against Russia, but I'm sure one of our future presidents (especially if a Democrat gets elected) probably will for interfering in our elections. The best revenge though is succeed at building cultural resilience. If the US and UK can resolves it's internal problems, then there's not really much harm that a foreign adversary can do (politically anyway)... but if we can't even stop arguing with each other, then how are we ever going to be able to deal with any foreign interference?... it would seem we are quite vulnerable there.

[Beso]

Could whoever did it have picked more russian sounding nerve agent....im going for mi5 or mi6 involvement because of the botched attempt...russia dont mess up like this.

[Northern Monkey]

Could whoever did it have picked more russian sounding nerve agent....im going for mi5 or mi6 involvement because of the botched attempt...russia dont mess up like this.

Well you never know.Russia has asked for samples to test I presume but we’re refusing to give them any.

[Beso]

Well you never know.Russia has asked for samples to test I presume but we’re refusing to give them any.

I would be happier if an outside source tested it...iceland perhaps.

[Livia]

We're blatantly headed for cold war 2.0 aren't we.

Yes we are. Now we've completely disbanded the British Army of the Rhine, Russia seems to be at her most provocative. It was only three years ago that they announced to the world that they have "the grandfather of all bombs" while we're paring down our armed forces and risk a leader who probably wouldn't renew Trident, let alone launch it.

[MTVN]

Peter Hitchins made a good point the other day:

Now that communism, the USSR and the Warsaw Pact are on the scrapheap, I am at a loss to see what reason we have to be Russia’s enemy, or what reason they have to be ours.

We have no common border, we have no colonial rivalries, we barely even trade any more since our oil deals collapsed. We cheerfully get on with equally nasty despotisms elsewhere, especially China.

Yet the Cold War had been over for nearly five years, and we were on good terms with Boris Yeltsin, when the SIS hired Colonel Skripal of the Russian GRU (Main Military Intelligence Directorate).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5486149/PETER-HITCHENS-goading-Russia-dirty-war-win.html


We have to ask what lengths we are willing to go to over a spy who we recruited to harm his own country for nearly a decade. Do we have the appetite for a new cold war?

[Livia]

Peter Hitchins made a good point the other day:



We have to ask what lengths we are willing to go to over a spy who we recruited to harm his own country for nearly a decade. Do we have the appetite for a new cold war?

If it was a one off, it would probably be an overreaction, but it isn't a one-off. British Citizens' lives were put at risk on home soil and if something isn't done it's a licence for more attacks. Look at the derision with which the Russians treated this incident.

[Northern Monkey]

Just saw a huge military transport plane coming from the airport.Think it was a C-17 training.Hoping They’re not preparing for something:eek: