Opinions on assisted dying.

[Beso]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/21/guernsey-parliament-to-vote-on-proposals-to-allow-assisted-dying

[LaLaLand]

I'm all for it honestly.

Some people are cruelly forced to live a life of pure suffering and pain through certain illnesses for absolutely no reason. It's not fair.

If I had some awful, terminal, degenerative illness I'd rather "quit while I was ahead" in a peaceful and dignified manner so to speak than face what would inevitably come, for both me and my loved ones.

[AnnieK]

I am all for this. I think the conditions put.in place a fair too, terminally ill, mentally competent with less than 6 months to live.

If anyone had had to sit through a loved one dying of cancer, most would agree I think.

[RichardG]

i support it, i always have done but watching my grandad suffocate to death over two years from pulmonary fibrosis definitely strengthened my opinion on the matter

i also don't think it's fair to restrict it to people with only six months left to live, there's plenty of medical conditions severe enough to disable people and make their lives utterly miserable but might not necessarily lead to death in the foreseeable future. i think the option should be open to everyone if they can prove they're suffering unbearably with no chance of relief.

[Morgan.]

After seeing my nan suffer terminally ill cancer in her end of life and attempt to take her own life multiple times, I think it is one of the biggest needs of this country. She did apply for the clinic in Switzerland (?) however became too ill to travel.

[Toy Soldier]

If someone has no chance of recovery and a high chance of a very painful or uncomfortable death, then I can see absolutely no moral justification to not allow people to end it peacefully.

[smudgie]

I am all for it.
We are allowed to put our pets out of pain and misery, but not ourselves.

[Withano]

Dont think theres gonna be much of a debate on this one. I'm for it too.

[Beso]

I am all for it.
We are allowed to put our pets out of pain and misery, but not ourselves.

Good point smudgie and one that contradicts the detractors..

Seems a lot of religious people are against it for their beliefs...to hell with everyone else.

[Niamh.]

If someone has no chance of recovery and a high chance of a very painful or uncomfortable death, then I can see absolutely no moral justification to not allow people to end it peacefully.This pretty much

[Brillopad]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/21/guernsey-parliament-to-vote-on-proposals-to-allow-assisted-dying

I support it personally - but It has to be closely regulated. Nothing worse than putting people through unnecessary pain and suffering if they have had enough. People have a right to a dignified death and a say in how and when they leave this earth.

[jaxie]

It should be the choice of the individual though I don't think families should be able to decide on their behalf.

[Crimson Dynamo]

all for it

especially repeat paedos, murderers and drug dealers

[Vicky.]

Agree I don't think there will be much of a debate here :laugh:

I am also all for it. We put animals out of their misery without a second thought. Its just cruel to leave humans in pain when they want to end it.

[Beso]

Funny how people use god as a reason for it not to happen.

But as has been pointed out they are willing to let animals be put down before gods willing......makes me think we aint all gods creation!

[DemolitionRed]

So long as that person has the capacity to understand what they are doing, I'm all for it. Like someone else said, I don't think we can ever let this be the choice of relatives. It has to be the choice of the person who wants to die. I have seen some really unpleasant suffering towards 'end of life' and I've seen some of those suffers desperately hanging on to life for all its worth regardless of how much pain they suffer.

[AnnieK]

So long as that person has the capacity to understand what they are doing, I'm all for it. Like someone else said, I don't think we can ever let this be the choice of relatives. It has to be the choice of the person who wants to die. I have seen some really unpleasant suffering towards 'end of life' and I've seen some of those suffers desperately hanging on to life for all its worth regardless of how much pain they suffer.

Agreed, that's why I agree with anyone who is granted this must have the mental capacity to make that decision.

[TomC]

Want it personally

[Maru]

I'd want this choice.

[Matthew.]

Legalise it! Even though my medical background hasn’t gotten to an extremely volatile life threatening stage, I know that one day there is a massive possibility that it will so I hope that if I ever do get to that stage, I would like for this to be legalised before then so I at least have the option. I think it will though if a different government are voted in and I believe it will by the time that I would ever need to consider it (we’re talking 30 years down the road here) but let’s face it - a Tory government are never going to legalise it are they?

[rusticgal]

Professionals make the decision to put an animal down on the basis that they are suffering...humans suffering should be able to make that decision for themselves providing they are mentally capable to make that decision. I'm all for it.

[Smithy]

Come through Guernsey :clap1:

[Gstar]

I was discussing this the other day. Definitely in favour

[Beso]

Parmnion bringing the forum together.

[Ammi]

Parmnion bringing the forum together.

...parmunion..?...all we had to do was put a u in you...

[Kizzy]

No, I don't agree with it... I can see it exploited.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, I don't agree with it... I can see it exploited.

so you would deny thousands of people a dignified chosen end by a supposition?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Come through Guernsey :clap1:

Smithy to trial the process in the name of science :clap1:





:hehe:

[Beso]

...parmunion..?...all we had to do was put a u in you...

Haha..jeez that took me a good two minutes to get:joker: I thought i was an onion.

[Kizzy]

so you would deny thousands of people a dignified chosen end by a supposition?

yes

[MTVN]

I have issues with it because I think it devalues life and like kizzy says it could be open to exploitation

I also find it hard to deny someone the right to choose but then that carries it's own problems with how you can judge whether someone is capable of making that decision and how can you be sure that their choice now will always be their choice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have issues with it because I think it devalues life and like kizzy says it could be open to exploitation

I also find it hard to deny someone the right to choose but then that carries it's own problems with how you can judge whether someone is capable of making that decision and how can you be sure that their choice now will always be their choice.

life has no value its just life. Its easy to create a life and easy to take a life

It seems to work fine on the continent

[Niamh.]

life has no value its just life. Its easy to create a life and easy to take a life

It seems to work fine on the continent

Life has value to the individual and those who know and love them

[Crimson Dynamo]

Life has value to the individual and those who know and love them

well in that case what a great argument for allowing them to value how they die

[Livia]

So long as no one can be coerced or bullied into it, I'm totally for it.

If I get a diagnosis of dementia or any of those awful diseases that affect older people, I am going out like a ****ing rock star. You will find me full of cocaine, in a Rolls Royce at the bottom of a swimming pool with a big smile on my face.

[Niamh.]

well in that case what a great argument for allowing them to value how they die

Well yes I agree with that part (as long as it's not open to abuse of course)

[Niamh.]

So long as no one can be coerced or bullied into it, I'm totally for it.

If I get a diagnosis of dementia or any of those awful diseases that affect older people, I am going out like a ****ing rock star. You will find me full of cocaine, in a Rolls Royce at the bottom of a swimming pool with a big smile on my face.

:laugh:

I like your style

[Crimson Dynamo]

As i get older (late 30s) and see a lot of relatives die the common theme is how fckg rubbish it is and how undignified the end is. It really is not very nice - we need to shake off this post-religious bolloxio about death and start helping people to die a lot better

[Niamh.]

As i get older (late 30s) and see a lot of relatives die the common theme is how fckg rubbish it is and how undignified the end is. It really is not very nice - we need to shake off this post-religious bolloxio about death and start helping people to die a lot better

It's not just religious though, I mean people just don't want to let their loved ones go alot of the time. Lately I can't stop thinking about losing my mom (she's only early 60's and in great health still) but I get panicky when I even think about it (in reality she'll probably out live me :worry: )

[Vicky.]

If I get a diagnosis of dementia or any of those awful diseases that affect older people, I am going out like a ****ing rock star. You will find me full of cocaine, in a Rolls Royce at the bottom of a swimming pool with a big smile on my face.

Me too. Sounds a pretty decent way to go :D

I wonder actually, if there is a way to maybe make a will saying that if I am ever deemed not capable of making the decision, I give permission in advance (while in sound mind) for them to just give me a huge shot of morphine and be done with it. I also want for, if I am in an accident or something and will be very brain damaged, for them to turn the life support off rather than leaving me to a life like that. And in that case too, if I was not on life support, I would want them to put me down. Thats no life.

My mother, a few years ago actually asked me if, if she was very very ill and incapable of committing suicide, would I kill her :umm2:

[Toy Soldier]

I have issues with it because I think it devalues life and like kizzy says it could be open to exploitation

I also find it hard to deny someone the right to choose but then that carries it's own problems with how you can judge whether someone is capable of making that decision and how can you be sure that their choice now will always be their choice.

I don't think either has to be hugely problematic... you could attach some fairly strict criteria i.e. only months left to live anyway, proof that there's unmanageable pain or discomfort, and you could also have it so that both the person requesting it and the medical team surrounding that person have to sign off on it. I don't think the idea of it being significantly exploited in that situation is particularly realistic.

As for the value of life stuff... I dunno. I think people romanticize death. Too many peaceful bedside goodbyes in Hollywood movies with a single tear rolling down the cheeks of loved ones as an old, suspiciously rosy-cheeked person falls asleep with a little smile.

My grandmother died when I was 8 and was cared for in our house in her last months and it was awful. It was bed sores, vomit and confusion as her mind disappeared long before her body, and I have a memory seared in my brain of being able to hear her writhing and shrieking within her final half hour. It was an absolute ****ing horror show.

My mum died 4 years ago and yeah... it was worse. Her main cause of death was liver failure, but basically all of her organs shut down. Her limbs were purple and had swollen to 3x their normal size with oedema. Her immune system had shut down and a simple cold sore had eaten away half of her upper lip and there was dying flesh right round to her cheek. She was mostly unconscious - but would occasionally "gasp awake" for a few confused minutes with a look of real, and complete, terror on her face. She was hallucinating and delirious, but she also knew what was happening to her.

"Devalues life", indeed. I sometimes wonder if the people who are against these things actually realise what an undignified ****-show real death actually is. There is no value there. It's like a cruel joke tacked onto the end of a life. To deny people a way to avoid that out of the (irrational) fear that people are going to somehow use it to bump off their elderly relatives is just madness.

[Niamh.]

I don't think either has to be hugely problematic... you could attach some fairly strict criteria i.e. only months left to live anyway, proof that there's unmanageable pain or discomfort, and you could also have it so that both the person requesting it and the medical team surrounding that person have to sign off on it. I don't think the idea of it being significantly exploited in that situation is particularly realistic.

As for the value of life stuff... I dunno. I think people romanticize death. Too many peaceful bedside goodbyes in Hollywood movies with a single tear rolling down the cheeks of loved ones as an old, suspiciously rosy-cheeked person falls asleep with a little smile.

My grandmother died when I was 8 and was cared for in our house in her last months and it was awful. It was bed sores, vomit and confusion as her mind disappeared long before her body, and I have a memory seared in my brain of being able to hear her writhing and shrieking within her final half hour. It was an absolute ****ing horror show.

My mum died 4 years ago and yeah... it was worse. Her main cause of death was liver failure, but basically all of her organs shut down. Her limbs were purple and had swollen to 3x their normal size with oedema. Her immune system had shut down and a simple cold sore had eaten away half of her upper lip and there was dying flesh right round to her cheek. She was mostly unconscious - but would occasionally "gasp awake" for a few confused minutes with a look of real, and complete, terror on her face. She was hallucinating and delirious, but she also knew what was happening to her.

"Devalues life", indeed. I sometimes wonder if the people who are against these things actually realise what an undignified ****-show real death actually is. There is no value there. It's like a cruel joke tacked onto the end of a life. To deny people a way to avoid that out of the (irrational) fear that people are going to somehow use it to bump off their elderly relatives is just madness.

Yeah spot on. I wouldn't like my loved ones to remember me in that kind of way and I would like some sort of dignity in death

[Toy Soldier]

Yeah spot on. I wouldn't like my loved ones to remember me in that kind of way and I would like some sort of dignity in death

People say "you remember the good times" but for me that's been a lie. When I remember my mum it comes with that attached image of a yellow, swollen zombie gasping in a hospital bed. Maybe I need therapy or something :umm2:.

[Niamh.]

People say "you remember the good times" but for me that's been a lie. When I remember my mum it comes with that attached image of a yellow, swollen zombie gasping in a hospital bed. Maybe I need therapy or something :umm2:.

Yeah, I never bought into lines like that either when it comes to death. When I was 18 my best friend died and I really didn't want to see her body, my reasoning was I didn't want to picture her dead everytime I remembered her and my dad kept pushing and pushing for me to go in the funeral home because I'd regret it and I almost did but turned back at the door. I'm so glad to this day that I didn't do it. Everyone said how peaceful she looked etc but her sister said to me afterwards that she wishes she never saw her because she didn't look like her at all and now she can't get that image out of her head

[Vicky.]

People say "you remember the good times" but for me that's been a lie. When I remember my mum it comes with that attached image of a yellow, swollen zombie gasping in a hospital bed. Maybe I need therapy or something :umm2:.

Yes. I agree with this for sure. I have so many happy memories of my uncle..mainly from childhood days. I went to see him a few days before he died and I no longer really remember the good stuff, I just remember him clutching at his throat doing what I now know to be 'the death rattle' and looking like a corpse already :(

[Livia]

I feel quite lucky that I haven't experienced that death-throes moment. My husband was recovering from his injuries when he died, and he just passed away in his sleep. He looked like he was still sleeping, and it helped to know he didn't have that awful, terrifying, last-minute fight for breath. And I don't want to inflict that on people either. I choose how I live, I should be able to choose how I die.

[Niamh.]

I feel quite lucky that I haven't experienced that death-throes moment. My husband was recovering from his injuries when he died, and he just passed away in his sleep. He looked like he was still sleeping, and it helped to know he didn't have that awful, terrifying, last-minute fight for breath. And I don't want to inflict that on people either. I choose how I live, I should be able to choose how I die.

:hug:

[Toy Soldier]

My two ideal deaths would be to reach around 80 and then catastrophic heart failure out of nowhere. Like just "lol look at this funny thing I found on the super advanced interne..." *boop* drop dead.

OR... get assassinated by a really skilled sniper while I'm just minding my own business. I don't know why that would happen :think:, but the idea of just not seeing it coming at all really appeals to me.

[Niamh.]

My two ideal deaths would be to reach around 80 and then catastrophic heart failure out of nowhere. Like just "lol look at this funny thing I found on the super advanced interne..." *boop* drop dead.

OR... get assassinated by a really skilled sniper while I'm just minding my own business. I don't know why that would happen :think:, but the idea of just not seeing it coming at all really appeals to me.

How about a Robotic Bee flying directly into you brain through your ear?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have watched a few people die by assisted method and its all not too bad they just drink a small cup of the poison and fall asleep, as it were

[Livia]

This all reminded me of this poem:

Let Me Die a Young Man's Death
By Roger McGough

Let me die a youngman's death
not a clean and inbetween
the sheets holywater death
not a famous-last-words
peaceful out of breath death

When I'm 73
and in constant good tumour
may I be mown down at dawn
by a bright red sports car
on my way home
from an allnight party

Or when I'm 91
with silver hair
and sitting in a barber's chair
may rival gangsters
with hamfisted tommyguns burst in
and give me a short back and insides

Or when I'm 104
and banned from the Cavern
may my mistress
catching me in bed with her daughter
and fearing for her son
cut me up into little pieces
and throw away every piece but one

Let me die a youngman's death
not a free from sin tiptoe in
candle wax and waning death
not a curtains drawn by angels borne
'what a nice way to go' death

[Niamh.]

I have watched a few people die by assisted method and its all not too bad they just drink a small cup of the poison and fall asleep, as it were

You have? In real life like? :o

I was with my dog Curly when he was put to sleep and it's peaceful so if it's anything like that it's good.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You have? In real life like? :o

I was with my dog Curly when he was put to sleep and it's peaceful so if it's anything like that it's good.

no on the telly but yes with animals

when my big staffy got the injection he lay still for a bit and with his last spurt of energy he hauled himself up onto the lap of ex-mrs LT (we were all sat on the living room floor). It makes me sad even to type that :sad:

[Nicky91]

You have? In real life like? :o

I was with my dog Curly when he was put to sleep and it's peaceful so if it's anything like that it's good.

it is sad but it's better that they have a peaceful death than long suffering and lots of pain (which is even more sad)

[Toy Soldier]

How about a Robotic Bee flying directly into you brain through your ear?

I dunno, it would have to be really quick, otherwise the ear-burrowing sounds pretty painful :worry:

[Niamh.]

no on the telly but yes with animals

when my big staffy got the injection he lay still for a bit and with his last spurt of energy he hauled himself up onto the lap of ex-mrs LT (we were all sat on the living room floor). It makes me sad even to type that :sad:

Ugh I just got flashbacks to poor Curly dying now, actually the upsetting part is how he was the day he was put to sleep, he'd gone blind and was disorientated and scared :(

[smudgie]

So long as no one can be coerced or bullied into it, I'm totally for it.

If I get a diagnosis of dementia or any of those awful diseases that affect older people, I am going out like a ****ing rock star. You will find me full of cocaine, in a Rolls Royce at the bottom of a swimming pool with a big smile on my face.

I am going out on a whimper....injections at the ready.
But I love your plan of a rock and roll exit.

[Beso]

Cant a patient refuse medication to die sooner?

So why its not allowed is beyond me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

we do it for animals aside form humans so why not human animals too?

[Niamh.]

Cant a patient refuse medication to die sooner?

So why its not allowed is beyond me.

If something is terminal I reckon most of what they're taking is probably just for pain relief rather than prolonging a sickness

[Livia]

They let you die in hospital by withholding food and drink, so you die of hunger and dehydration. And what's more, the medical profession let people die all the time.

[Beso]

They let you die in hospital by withholding food and drink, so you die of hunger and dehydration. And what's more, the medical profession let people die all the time.

Yeah, im sure the dr helped my dad out at the end.

[Livia]

Yeah, im sure the dr helped my dad out at the end.

It's the right thing to do. I know their Hippocratic Oath doesn't permit them to kill actually people, but sometimes preserving life is the cruellest thing they could do. And their Oath would forbid them from performing abortions... but they still do.

[DemolitionRed]

Hospices are very tuned in to when a person has reached the final stages of life. One of the more umpleasant processes of dying is air hunger where a person gasps, sometimes frantically for air. Oxygen won't help if a person is going through the biological process of dying because organs are naturally shutting down. This is when they are normally given morphine. Its not to kill them, its to relax them and reduce air hunger. IMO, morphine during the final days is a dignified and relaxed way to die.

[Kizzy]

I don't think either has to be hugely problematic... you could attach some fairly strict criteria i.e. only months left to live anyway, proof that there's unmanageable pain or discomfort, and you could also have it so that both the person requesting it and the medical team surrounding that person have to sign off on it. I don't think the idea of it being significantly exploited in that situation is particularly realistic.

As for the value of life stuff... I dunno. I think people romanticize death. Too many peaceful bedside goodbyes in Hollywood movies with a single tear rolling down the cheeks of loved ones as an old, suspiciously rosy-cheeked person falls asleep with a little smile.

My grandmother died when I was 8 and was cared for in our house in her last months and it was awful. It was bed sores, vomit and confusion as her mind disappeared long before her body, and I have a memory seared in my brain of being able to hear her writhing and shrieking within her final half hour. It was an absolute ****ing horror show.

My mum died 4 years ago and yeah... it was worse. Her main cause of death was liver failure, but basically all of her organs shut down. Her limbs were purple and had swollen to 3x their normal size with oedema. Her immune system had shut down and a simple cold sore had eaten away half of her upper lip and there was dying flesh right round to her cheek. She was mostly unconscious - but would occasionally "gasp awake" for a few confused minutes with a look of real, and complete, terror on her face. She was hallucinating and delirious, but she also knew what was happening to her.

"Devalues life", indeed. I sometimes wonder if the people who are against these things actually realise what an undignified ****-show real death actually is. There is no value there. It's like a cruel joke tacked onto the end of a life. To deny people a way to avoid that out of the (irrational) fear that people are going to somehow use it to bump off their elderly relatives is just madness.

There's the issue... as a rule medical professionals sign up to save lives, they are not in the business of killing people.
I know it's hard I watched my own father get eaten away at by cancer in my mums living room over a period of 3 months in his late 60s.

What individuals do is up to them but a managed decline via pain relief is as dignified as is possible medically, we can't be passing the burden of assisted suicide/dying onto anyone else.

[Matthew.]

My mother, a few years ago actually asked me if, if she was very very ill and incapable of committing suicide, would I kill her :umm2:

oh my god i can’t imagine ever actually doing it however this reminds me of a lady at work with, Jackie, telling me that her sister was paralysed after an accident (i think but i’m not too sure exactly what happened) and in the initial stages she asked her if she would help her die. Jackie told her no because she was her sister and her 2 daughters adored her. she died a month later

[AnnieK]

My mum once said to me that if she was ever that ill that she would never recover to help her end it. Thankfully when she did get very poorly, she didn't ask.

In some ways we were quite lucky (!?) with my mum. She was diagnosed with cancer and died within 4 weeks and I can say with some certainty that after her dianosis she was never in pain but she was very quickly not my mum either. Sitting by her bed at home firstly and then in a hospice was the darkest days of my life. She was asleep (unconscious?) most of the time. Her last day was awful with the gasping for breath but the hospice staff were amazing but I would have loved her not to have lost last days of suffering but to be honest, I don't think once she was diagnosed that they would have let her make the decision of assisted suicide as the cancer was in her brain so would have been deemed not mentally competent.

I am still in agreement though but with stringent rulings to prevent any exploitation or coercion

[Niamh.]

My mum once said to me that if she was ever that ill that she would never recover to help her end it. Thankfully when she did get very poorly, she didn't ask.

In some ways we were quite lucky (!?) with my mum. She was diagnosed with cancer and died within 4 weeks and I can say with some certainty that after her dianosis she was never in pain but she was very quickly not my mum either. Sitting by her bed at home firstly and then in a hospice was the darkest days of my life. She was asleep (unconscious?) most of the time. Her last day was awful with the gasping for breath but the hospice staff were amazing but I would have loved her not to have lost last days of suffering but to be honest, I don't think once she was diagnosed that they would have let her make the decision of assisted suicide as the cancer was in her brain so would have been deemed not mentally competent.

I am still in agreement though but with stringent rulings to prevent any exploitation or coercion

:hug:

[Toy Soldier]

There's the issue... as a rule medical professionals sign up to save lives, they are not in the business of killing people.
I know it's hard I watched my own father get eaten away at by cancer in my mums living room over a period of 3 months in his late 60s.

What individuals do is up to them but a managed decline via pain relief is as dignified as is possible medically, we can't be passing the burden of assisted suicide/dying onto anyone else.

Do they? Many do, sure, but I'd say that amore accurate role of a medical professional is to help people live as comfortably as possible for as long as possible... it's about quality of life, not "living as long as possible". The "rule" is to do no harm, but there's certainly scope for debate over whether or not it's more harmful to help someone to die quickly and painlessly, or to have them endure high levels of suffering for weeks or months only to die anyway.

It doesn't need to be a case of forcing or passing the buck either; it would be fairly simple to allow medical professionals to opt in / out of being involved in euthanasia. I believe that there have been studies showing that 50% or more of doctors are in favour of euthanasia in extreme / end-of-life circumstances.

[Crimson Dynamo]

When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep.


Not screaming and praying like all the passengers in his airplane





:douf:

well someone had to

[Niamh.]

When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep.


Not screaming and praying like all the passengers in his airplane





:douf:

well someone had to

:laugh:

[Kizzy]

'So does the thought of being an intolerable burden to their family. But campaigners scrupulously avoid talking about the wider social landscape, the rocketing numbers of those with dementia outliving their brains at vast personal and social cost.'

This is the portion I don't agree with the part where you are meant in your dotage to feel you are social slurry...
This I feel is in alignment with a eugenics ethic, you are no longer useful, you should therefore feel it is acceptable to cease to exist.

If you want this do it, it is quite rightly a huge social taboo and it's a cop out to suggest it's only the religious who are ethically opposed.

I would be interested to see the medical professionals opinions in support of euthanasia, not the BMA actual practicing doctors.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/22/assisted-dying-dementia-alzheimers-guernsey

[smudgie]

Dying with dignity.
Well, if vomiting and choking on your own $hit is dignified, not being able to lie down in bed to sleep and not being able to eat or even drink without it coming straight back up is dignified, you can keep it.
My sister died a terrible death last June, my sister-in-law has been in the hospice this past 15 days, both no hope and terminal, the choice should have been there for them both.
Perhaps neither of them would take that choice, but the option should be open to us all.