Owen Smith leadership challenge (again)

[Kizzy]

Splitting the party to take the heat off the tories and analytica?...Hmmmm

Owen Smith has broken ranks with Jeremy Corbyn to reopen the question of whether Brexit is “the right choice for the country” – and urge Labour to offer the public a referendum on the final deal.

The shadow Northern Ireland secretary, who challenged Corbyn for his party’s leadership in 2016, was brought on to the Labour frontbench after last year’s general election.

He has argued strongly for Labour to back a customs union with the EU27, something that has now become party policy, but in an article for the Guardian, Smith says .

“Labour needs to do more than just back a soft Brexit or guarantee a soft border in Ireland,” he argues.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/owen-smith-calls-for-public-poll-on-final-brexit-deal

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-brexit-ireland-european-union

[smudgie]

The beggar has been sacked.:hehe:

[Beso]

Well if you dont tow the party line in a dictatorship

[DemolitionRed]

I like Owen Smith but he needs to go off and launch his own party and stop piggybacking on a party he disagrees with.

[Kizzy]

Great, he's got more time to suck Blairs balls now :)

[Beso]

Great, he's got more time to suck Blairs balls now :)

I see you are taking the party stance kizzy.:thumbs:

[DemolitionRed]

Great, he's got more time to suck Blairs balls now :)

:laugh2:

[kirklancaster]

Well if you dont tow the party line in a dictatorship

:joker:

[MTVN]

Well sacking him is certainly a convenient way to distract attention from another anti-Semitism scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

[Beso]

Well sacking him is certainly a convenient way to distract attention from another anti-Semitism scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

This corbyn character is either a very good comedian, or a very silly man.

[Kizzy]

Well sacking him is certainly a convenient way to distract attention from another anti-Semitism scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

Another attempt at a slur, Sigh....... next!!!

He is inching his way towards no 10, those positioned to scupper him for whatever reason are poised and are striking.

[MTVN]

Another attempt at a slur, Sigh....... next!!!

He is inching his way towards no 10, those positioned to scupper him for whatever reason are poised and are striking.

Another attempt to dismiss anti-Semitism, Sigh....

And to think some people think the Labour party has a problem in this area

[Kizzy]

Another attempt to dismiss anti-Semitism, Sigh....

And to think some people think the Labour party has a problem in this area

Stop baiting.

[MTVN]

Stop baiting.

:rolleyes:

[MTVN]

The mural story has just been mentioned on BBC news as well FYI as part of the segment on Smith, just another smear though of course

[DemolitionRed]

There's a desperation going on here and the more popular Corbyn becomes, the worse it gets.

[Twosugars]

Great, he's got more time to suck Blairs balls now :)

:facepalm:

[Kizzy]

The mural story has just been mentioned on BBC news as well FYI as part of the segment on Smith, just another smear though of course

Oooh the BBC?! ... It must be VERY important then eh?

[Beso]

Oooh the BBC?! ... It must be VERY important then eh?

What can we search for thats an important bit of media.

One that you would think only air worthy news.

[jet]

There's a desperation going on here and the more popular Corbyn becomes, the worse it gets.


Another case of "I don't believe a word of anything negative said about Saint Corbyn, not a word, I tell you!!! he's innocent in every way, always!"

ok then :joker:

[Kizzy]

More like the tories are in trouble widespread corruption and cronyism. let's rush out another Corbyn 'expose' this time it's a misunderstood tweet from 2012.... Yeah that ought to deflect the heat, phew!! :laugh:

[jet]

Well sacking him is certainly a convenient way to distract attention from another anti-Semitism scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

But Corbyn always has the excuse of 'I didn't know!' - he seems to 'not know' what he is doing a lot, the poor innocent. He's so on the ball, PM material, isn't he? :smug:

[jet]

More like the tories are in trouble widespread corruption and cronyism. let's rush out another Corbyn 'expose' this time it's a misunderstood tweet from 2012.... Yeah that ought to deflect the heat, phew!! :laugh:

Yes, he's just misunderstood, and doesn't realise things, the silly sausage. :huh:

[kirklancaster]

He is THE most dangerously deluded person in the UK - apart from those who REFUTE all the evidence that he is a Marxist, Terrorist-Loving, Anti-Semitic, Anti-British jerk-off and BLINDLY support him.

In my opinion of course.

[DemolitionRed]

Another case of "I don't believe a word of anything negative said about Saint Corbyn, not a word, I tell you!!! he's innocent in every way, always!"

ok then :joker:

The only reason you say this is because I say he's not an IRA supporter. You have gone all guns blazing at Corbyn without one credible cite and you're pissed off because unlike some on here, I don't believe you.

As for Corbyn, there's plenty of things I've complained about in the past. At one point I clearly stated I didn't think he was the man for the job but like all of us, we have the right to change our mind. I'll speak on behalf of anyone if I think someone's spewing bollocks and I won't make **** up to try and deface May, even though I can't stand her politics.

[DemolitionRed]

We have 5 Jewish conservative MPs and 5 Jewish Labour MPs
We have 26 Jewish Labour Peers and 14 Jewish Conservative peers

It would be interesting to know the same about national newspapers.

[DemolitionRed]

He is THE most dangerously deluded person in the UK - apart from those who REFUTE all the evidence that he is a Marxist, Terrorist-Loving, Anti-Semitic, Anti-British jerk-off and BLINDLY support him.

In my opinion of course.

Oh you forgot one thing. He doesn't like landlords either! Your blood must be boiling!

[jet]

The only reason you say this is because I say he's not an IRA supporter. You have gone all guns blazing at Corbyn without one credible cite and you're pissed off because unlike some on here, I don't believe you.

As for Corbyn, there's plenty of things I've complained about in the past. At one point I clearly stated I didn't think he was the man for the job but like all of us, we have the right to change our mind. I'll speak on behalf of anyone if I think someone's spewing bollocks and I won't make **** up to try and deface May, even though I can't stand her politics.

It's not his politics I can't stand, it's HIM.
I don't make stuff up, please refrain from saying I am a liar without any evidence whatsoever.
Its irrelevant to me if you still block out the fact he's a terrorist supporter, your agreement isn't required. :shrug:

[Brillopad]

Well sacking him is certainly a convenient way to distract attention from another anti-Semitism scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/23/corbyn-criticised-after-backing-artist-behind-antisemitic-mural

:thumbs:

[Brillopad]

He is THE most dangerously deluded person in the UK - apart from those who REFUTE all the evidence that he is a Marxist, Terrorist-Loving, Anti-Semitic, Anti-British jerk-off and BLINDLY support him.

In my opinion of course.

:thumbs:

[DemolitionRed]

It's not his politics I can't stand, it's HIM.
I don't make stuff up, please refrain from saying I am a liar without any evidence whatsoever.
Its irrelevant to me if you still block out the fact he's a terrorist supporter, your agreement isn't required. :shrug:

Then give us evidence and I don't mean some random hearsay.

I don't care if my agreement isn't required. I'll continue with my own beliefs and you continue with yours.

[jet]

He is THE most dangerously deluded person in the UK - apart from those who REFUTE all the evidence that he is a Marxist, Terrorist-Loving, Anti-Semitic, Anti-British jerk-off and BLINDLY support him.

In my opinion of course.

I agree with your opinion. There is none so blind as those who will not see -(John Heywood 1546). :hee:

[Brillopad]

Then give us evidence and I don't mean some random hearsay.

I don't care if my agreement isn't required. I'll continue with my own beliefs and you continue with yours.

Stop asking for evidence all the time whenever someone disagrees with you. If you think you can prove otherwise, feel free to do so.

[DemolitionRed]

"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence" Aldous Huxley

[jet]

Then give us evidence and I don't mean some random hearsay.

I don't care if my agreement isn't required. I'll continue with my own beliefs and you continue with yours.

If you've researched all that is out there about his terrorist connections and still don't believe a word of it, there is nothing anyone can do for you. :shrug:

[jet]

"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence" Aldous Huxley

Yes, stop sinning against me and calling me a liar when you have no evidence that he isn't a terrorist sympathiser.

[kirklancaster]

Oh you forgot one thing. He doesn't like landlords either! Your blood must be boiling!

:laugh: My fortune will ULTIMATELY actually GROW if Corbyn becomes PM and implements his unachievable, totally impracticable, ill-thought out 'policies'.

I have just paid £355.00 to the Law Courts to evict a 'young single mother of two' - you know, one of those poor, unfortunate, underprivileged strata of society whom Corbyn is out to alleviate the suffering of?

My (now EX) agent foolishly let this excrement into a beautiful, modernised, double glazed, centrally heated 2 bedroom semi which had walled private gardens to front and rear etc. etc.

Her income level was so high from a combination of Working Tax Credits and Benefits that the local Council only paid a small fraction of Housing Benefits to her.

Her Facebook pages are peppered with photographs which she has posted of herself dolled up to the nines partying, hungover, and enjoying nights out with 'The Girls' ALL OVER the UK.

She started NOT paying her rent after only a few months and DESPITE all our efforts to reason with her, appeal to her AND help her (because of her two INNOCENT children) she ignored us and her arrears now top £5,000.

We have discovered that she applied for a 'Council House' but her application was 'DECLINED', but once she is evicted the same Council will be FORCED to accommodate her because she will be HOMELESS.

The trouble is, that due to a severe HOUSING SHORTAGE just WHERE the Council will place her and into just WHAT kind of accommodation is the '64,000 dollar question'.

Corbyn's policies will greatly EXACERBATE this Housing Crisis as Private Landlord after Private Landlord sell up or STOP renting to BENEFIT CLAIMANTS altogether to protect themselves.

THIS big bad landlord will sit tight because already I have determined NOT to accept anyone else who is on Benefits as tenants.

Yes, it is a shame because not ALL Benefit Claimants are bad people or bad tenants, but I have worked damned hard for a long number of years (I am still working 60+ hour weeks now) and I have made real sacrifices to build up my business and I will not allow Corbyn or anyone else to destroy all that I have worked for.

By the way, I am a GOOD landlord. My properties are all accredited and of a good standard, my rents are ALWAYS set just below the Local Market levels, and I ALWAYS help my tenants whenever I can when they have problems.

Finally, I WILL MAKE A PREDICTION; If Corbyn becomes PM, it will SERIOUSLY DAMAGE the UK, but nowhere near as much as it will DAMAGE THE LABOUR PARTY because once the damage his demented policies will cause has manifested itself, the Labour Party - if not TOTALLY destroyed - will become UNELECTABLE for decades.

And THAT is another shame.

[kirklancaster]

Then give us evidence and I don't mean some random hearsay.

I don't care if my agreement isn't required. I'll continue with my own beliefs and you continue with yours.

Search Serious Debates threads on here because I have already posted long posts FULL of factual evidence concerning Corbyn and his 'Terrorist Friends'.

With all due respect though Red, I do not believe that ANY amount of FACTUAL evidence will change your devotion to Corbyn nor stop you defending him.

Instead, I believe that you will say that such factual evidence is NOT evidence.

Already, all the growing and weighty evidence that Corbyn is and has always been 'anti-Semitic' is being denigrated and/or denied by you and others despite it being wholly compelling to any impartial person.

[DemolitionRed]

I haven't read this yet Kirk as I'm about to go out and I'm sure its going to be something I want to respond to but I just wanted to thank you for bothering to write a long response.

Later folks.

[Brillopad]

:laugh: My fortune will ULTIMATELY actually GROW if Corbyn becomes PM and implements his unachievable, totally impracticable, ill-thought out 'policies'.

I have just paid £355.00 to the Law Courts to evict a 'young single mother of two' - you know, one of those poor, unfortunate, underprivileged strata of society whom Corbyn is out to alleviate the suffering of?

My (now EX) agent foolishly let this excrement into a beautiful, modernised, double glazed, centrally heated 2 bedroom semi which had walled private gardens to front and rear etc. etc.

Her income level was so high from a combination of Working Tax Credits and Benefits that the local Council only paid a small fraction of Housing Benefits to her.

Her Facebook pages are peppered with photographs which she has posted of herself dolled up to the nines partying, hungover, and enjoying nights out with 'The Girls' ALL OVER the UK.

She started NOT paying her rent after only a few months and DESPITE all our efforts to reason with her, appeal to her AND help her (because of her two INNOCENT children) she ignored us and her arrears now top £5,000.

We have discovered that she applied for a 'Council House' but her application was 'DECLINED', but once she is evicted the same Council will be FORCED to accommodate her because she will be HOMELESS.

The trouble is, that due to a severe HOUSING SHORTAGE just WHERE the Council will place her and into just WHAT kind of accommodation is the '64,000 dollar question'.

Corbyn's policies will greatly EXACERBATE this Housing Crisis as Private Landlord after Private Landlord sell up or STOP renting to BENEFIT CLAIMANTS altogether to protect themselves.

THIS big bad landlord will sit tight because already I have determined NOT to accept anyone else who is on Benefits as tenants.

Yes, it is a shame because not ALL Benefit Claimants are bad people or bad tenants, but I have worked damned hard for a long number of years (I am still working 60+ hour weeks now) and I have made real sacrifices to build up my business and I will not allow Corbyn or anyone else to destroy all that I have worked for.

By the way, I am a GOOD landlord. My properties are all accredited and of a good standard, my rents are ALWAYS set just below the Local Market levels, and I ALWAYS help my tenants whenever I can when they have problems.

Finally, I WILL MAKE A PREDICTION; If Corbyn becomes PM, it will SERIOUSLY DAMAGE the UK, but nowhere near as much as it will DAMAGE THE LABOUR PARTY because once the damage his demented policies will cause has manifested itself, the Labour Party - if not TOTALLY destroyed - will become UNELECTABLE for decades.

And THAT is another shame.

Well said Kirk! We need good quality landlords like you and cannot forget that landlords have bills to pay as well and would be walked over by many if given half the chance.

I also agree that Corbyn’ policies will do untold damage to the Labour Party in the long-term. Such a shame that lack of experience will likely cause many to live to regret their decisions. Lessons learned the hard way like so many before them.

[jet]

Search Serious Debates threads on here because I have already posted long posts FULL of factual evidence concerning Corbyn and his 'Terrorist Friends'.

With all due respect though Red, I do not believe that ANY amount of FACTUAL evidence will change your devotion to Corbyn nor stop you defending him.

Instead, I believe that you will say that such factual evidence is NOT evidence.

Already, all the growing and weighty evidence that Corbyn is and has always been 'anti-Semitic' is being denigrated and/or denied by you and others despite it being wholly compelling to any impartial person.

:clap1:

Same here, Kirk, but it's all 'lies, lies and more lies'. I've never seen anything quite like the denial that goes on.

[Tom4784]

We don't need another referendum of Brexit, people ****ed it up and they shouldn't get any takebacks because they regret voting the way they did. The bed has been made and now it's time to lie in it.

[Kizzy]

:clap1:

Same here, Kirk, but it's all 'lies, lies and more lies'. I've never seen anything quite like the denial that goes on.

Show me the facts, facts facts!

You can't or won't you have been asked many times, the response is always the same it is your 'experience' well sorry but that is just not enough to sway my opinion.

Here are some facts, on the actual topic at hand so that people might objectively make up their mind on this issue.

vsRb8MOR_jA

https://www.widewalls.ch/artist/mear-one/

If you wand a REAL discussion on antisemitism here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24343074

[jet]

Show me the facts, facts facts!

You can't or won't you have been asked many times, the response is always the same it is your 'experience' well sorry but that is just not enough to sway my opinion.

Here are some facts, on the actual topic at hand so that people might objectively make up their mind on this issue.

vsRb8MOR_jA

https://www.widewalls.ch/artist/mear-one/

If you wand a REAL discussion on antisemitism here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24343074

So you are conveniently pretending you haven't seen any of the many links I've posted that have nothing to do with my own experiences? Or maybe you just refused to read them? Unbelievable. Why would you knowingly even post something so untrue.

[DemolitionRed]

:laugh: My fortune will ULTIMATELY actually GROW if Corbyn becomes PM and implements his unachievable, totally impracticable, ill-thought out 'policies'.

I have just paid £355.00 to the Law Courts to evict a 'young single mother of two' - you know, one of those poor, unfortunate, underprivileged strata of society whom Corbyn is out to alleviate the suffering of?


And my husband type of business is going to clearly struggle if Corbyn gets in but believes the struggle is worthwhile.

As for your deceitful tenant, what has she got to do with Corbyn? Does Mays government allow sitting tenants or not? Does Mays government have landlords spending hundreds to get rid of sitting tenants or not?


My (now EX) agent foolishly let this excrement into a beautiful, modernised, double glazed, centrally heated 2 bedroom semi which had walled private gardens to front and rear etc. etc.

Her income level was so high from a combination of Working Tax Credits and Benefits that the local Council only paid a small fraction of Housing Benefits to her.

Her Facebook pages are peppered with photographs which she has posted of herself dolled up to the nines partying, hungover, and enjoying nights out with 'The Girls' ALL OVER the UK.

She started NOT paying her rent after only a few months and DESPITE all our efforts to reason with her, appeal to her AND help her (because of her two INNOCENT children) she ignored us and her arrears now top £5,000.

We have discovered that she applied for a 'Council House' but her application was 'DECLINED', but once she is evicted the same Council will be FORCED to accommodate her because she will be HOMELESS.

The trouble is, that due to a severe HOUSING SHORTAGE just WHERE the Council will place her and into just WHAT kind of accommodation is the '64,000 dollar question'.

Again, this isn't down to Corbyn, its down to the present government.

Corbyn's policies will greatly EXACERBATE this Housing Crisis as Private Landlord after Private Landlord sell up or STOP renting to BENEFIT CLAIMANTS altogether to protect themselves.

But Corbyn has clearly stated that putting rent money into impoverished tenants hands needs to be stopped. Instead it needs to go straight to the landlord.



THIS big bad landlord will sit tight because already I have determined NOT to accept anyone else who is on Benefits as tenants.

Yes, it is a shame because not ALL Benefit Claimants are bad people or bad tenants, but I have worked damned hard for a long number of years (I am still working 60+ hour weeks now) and I have made real sacrifices to build up my business and I will not allow Corbyn or anyone else to destroy all that I have worked for.

By the way, I am a GOOD landlord. My properties are all accredited and of a good standard, my rents are ALWAYS set just below the Local Market levels, and I ALWAYS help my tenants whenever I can when they have problems.



Its not only benefit claimants who sit tight when they can't pay the rent and get an eviction order. But lets go back to benefit claimants and what they presently have to put up with re-subsidized government rent.
1. The government no longer pays deposits. I believe that was stopped in 2008
2. The government are notoriously slow at paying up and when they do pay up, they pay the tenanat and not the landlord. Again I believe this happened in 2008.
3. The government just stop payments without notice and for very little reason.
4. Government payments are always in arrears.
5. Since 2014 the government makes landlords jump through hoops of fire before they can let to people on benefit. All these rules are confusing and time consuming and leave the landlord feeling vulnerable.
Its the Tory government that have done this, not Corbyn.


By the way, I am a GOOD landlord. My properties are all accredited and of a good standard, my rents are ALWAYS set just below the Local Market levels, and I ALWAYS help my tenants whenever I can when they have problems


Good, and so are we. The difference between you and us is, we rent out in France and you in the UK. Its very similar problems though.

[DemolitionRed]

Search Serious Debates threads on here because I have already posted long posts FULL of factual evidence concerning Corbyn and his 'Terrorist Friends'.

With all due respect though Red, I do not believe that ANY amount of FACTUAL evidence will change your devotion to Corbyn nor stop you defending him.

Instead, I believe that you will say that such factual evidence is NOT evidence.

Already, all the growing and weighty evidence that Corbyn is and has always been 'anti-Semitic' is being denigrated and/or denied by you and others despite it being wholly compelling to any impartial person.

I'm not devoted to Corbyn. Right now I'd say I lean much more towards Green Party politics. If you have posted factual evidence, I certainly haven't seen it. Believe it or not Kirk, I'm not on anyone's side. I just want a party who can run it better than the shambolic lot we presently have.

Ok here's one for you. Earlier today you said Corbyn was a Marxist. Every time I read this I see it as a poor attempt to make Corbyn a caricature of a communist, which he's not… anything but. Corbyn hasn't even read the Communist Manifesto and his politics are pretty average for mainstream Western Europe. I'd say he sits to the right of the Green party which is still fairly left but then anything would be left of this present government. That said, I do think McDonnel is a Marxist or at least he's got a keen interest in Marxism but he's another story.


He's never said he wants to overthrow capitalism, on the contrary he embraces it. He wants to stop this government selling off the NHS to their family members and friends . He wants to stop £billions in tax ending up in tax havens which is something this present free market allows and put that money to good use within our economy. He wants to re- nationalize a few things in an attempt to solve problems caused through mass privatization.


I'm not communist but I understand enough about communism to know that its never existed. The Communist Manifesto is full of metaphors with no absolutes. It's a theory that has had snippets taken out of it and bastardized but there's never been any such thing as a communist state for the simple reason that, according to Marx communism can't be a state because territorial borders wouldn't exist. I've never heard any suggestions of Marxist ideologies coming out of Corbyns mouth so what earned him that reputation?

What Corbyn wants is a centrally planned economy and I believe we need a centrally planned economy and so of course I like a lot of Corbyn politics. But there's quite a lot I don't like or don't believe would work and that's why I'm more Green than Red atm.

[Brillopad]

I'm not devoted to Corbyn. Right now I'd say I lean much more towards Green Party politics. If you have posted factual evidence, I certainly haven't seen it. Believe it or not Kirk, I'm not on anyone's side. I just want a party who can run it better than the shambolic lot we presently have.

Ok here's one for you. Earlier today you said Corbyn was a Marxist. Every time I read this I see it as a poor attempt to make Corbyn a caricature of a communist, which he's not… anything but. Corbyn hasn't even read the Communist Manifesto and his politics are pretty average for mainstream Western Europe. I'd say he sits to the right of the Green party which is still fairly left but then anything would be left of this present government. That said, I do think McDonnel is a Marxist or at least he's got a keen interest in Marxism but he's another story.


He's never said he wants to overthrow capitalism, on the contrary he embraces it. He wants to stop this government selling off the NHS to their family members and friends . He wants to stop £billions in tax ending up in tax havens which is something this present free market allows and put that money to good use within our economy. He wants to re- nationalize a few things in an attempt to solve problems caused through mass privatization.


I'm not communist but I understand enough about communism to know that its never existed. The Communist Manifesto is full of metaphors with no absolutes. It's a theory that has had snippets taken out of it and bastardized but there's never been any such thing as a communist state for the simple reason that, according to Marx communism can't be a state because territorial borders wouldn't exist. I've never heard any suggestions of Marxist ideologies coming out of Corbyns mouth so what earned him that reputation?

What Corbyn wants is a centrally planned economy and I believe we need a centrally planned economy and so of course I like a lot of Corbyn politics. But there's quite a lot I don't like or don't believe would work and that's why I'm more Green than Red atm.

What Corbyn wants and what he says he wants are not necessarily the same as demonstrated but his continual change of mind when it suits. Not a man to be trusted in the eyes of many.

[DemolitionRed]

If you wand a REAL discussion on antisemitism here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24343074

[QUOTE=Kizzy;9929752]

The interviewer said to Jon Steafel. "Analyzing British politics is not hating your country" I couldn't help but chuckle to myself because both you and I have been accused on here of being unpatriotic and hating our country.

[Beso]

Show me the facts, facts facts!

You can't or won't you have been asked many times, the response is always the same it is your 'experience' well sorry but that is just not enough to sway my opinion.

Here are some facts, on the actual topic at hand so that people might objectively make up their mind on this issue.

vsRb8MOR_jA

https://www.widewalls.ch/artist/mear-one/

If you wand a REAL discussion on antisemitism here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24343074

I doubt many people want to discuss something from 2013..

[DemolitionRed]

I doubt many people want to discuss something from 2013..

Why ever not? Can we only have the daily news now?

[arista]

I like Owen Smith but he needs to go off and launch his own party and stop piggybacking on a party he disagrees with.


He knows that would
stop a Labour Party getting into Power
so he is just another angry back bencher

[kirklancaster]

And my husband type of business is going to clearly struggle if Corbyn gets in but believes the struggle is worthwhile.

As for your deceitful tenant, what has she got to do with Corbyn? Does Mays government allow sitting tenants or not? Does Mays government have landlords spending hundreds to get rid of sitting tenants or not?

Again, this isn't down to Corbyn, its down to the present government.

But Corbyn has clearly stated that putting rent money into impoverished tenants hands needs to be stopped. Instead it needs to go straight to the landlord.

Its not only benefit claimants who sit tight when they can't pay the rent and get an eviction order. But lets go back to benefit claimants and what they presently have to put up with re-subsidized government rent.

1. The government no longer pays deposits. I believe that was stopped in 2008
2. The government are notoriously slow at paying up and when they do pay up, they pay the tenanat and not the landlord. Again I believe this happened in 2008.
3. The government just stop payments without notice and for very little reason.
4. Government payments are always in arrears.
5. Since 2014 the government makes landlords jump through hoops of fire before they can let to people on benefit. All these rules are confusing and time consuming and leave the landlord feeling vulnerable.
Its the Tory government that have done this, not Corbyn.

Good, and so are we. The difference between you and us is, we rent out in France and you in the UK. Its very similar problems though.

NOTHING in the above response addresses any of my post and it merely shows that you have completely missed the points which I was making.

Of which I will cover below, after I have pointed out what I believe to be very, very cleverly executed misrepresentations in your response of what I ACTUALLY stated in my post:

"As for your deceitful tenant, what has she got to do with Corbyn? Does Mays government allow sitting tenants or not? Does Mays government have landlords spending hundreds to get rid of sitting tenants or not?"

I NEVER stated anywhere that my tenant was a 'sitting tenant' because she is NOT.

However, a 'sitting tenant' is a lot more of an 'emotive' term which is highly likely to impress upon any 'unknowing' reader that I am callously trying to evict a very long-standing tenant who has been in the property for years when it used in an eviction scenario.

I am not a 'Landlord spending hundreds of pounds to 'GET RID' of a 'sitting tenant' - I am a landlord paying hundreds of pounds to EVICT a scumbag who owes me £5,000 in UNPAID RENT when she RECEIVES BENEFITS (Tax-Payers MONEY) with which to PAY that rent.

"Its not only benefit claimants who sit tight when they can't pay the rent and get an eviction order."

I have never stated ANYWHERE that this is a 'benefits claimant who sit(s) tight' because she 'CAN'T pay the rent'

I stated that this is a benefit claiming tenant who has FULL benefits coming in but WON'T pay any rent because she elects to SELFISHLY live the 'High Life' with all that Tax Payers money instead.

THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE IN MEANING BETEEN WHAT YOU REPRESENT THAT I SAID AND WHAT I ACTUALLY DID SAY IS THERE?

" But lets go back to benefit claimants and what they presently have to put up with re-subsidized government rent.

1. The government no longer pays deposits. I believe that was stopped in 2008
2. The government are notoriously slow at paying up and when they do pay up, they pay the tenanat and not the landlord. Again I believe this happened in 2008.
3. The government just stop payments without notice and for very little reason.
4. Government payments are always in arrears.
5. Since 2014 the government makes landlords jump through hoops of fire before they can let to people on benefit. All these rules are confusing and time consuming and leave the landlord feeling vulnerable.
Its the Tory government that have done this, not Corbyn."


NONE of the above has ANY relevance to my post at all - though you are misinformed regarding some of the listed 'facts'.

This tenant was receiving only a fraction of Housing Benefits because her WAGE, WORKING TAX CREDIT and other benefits virtually reached the stipulated 'Income Ceiling' for qualifying for Housing Benefits.

In other words, she was NOT a poor struggling 'under-privileged' person but enjoyed a GOOD level of income.

SHE and SHE alone was responsible for paying her rent to' keep a roof over hers and her two childrens' heads' - NOT the Housing Benefits.

Instead, she made buying expensive items, make-up, clothes and going out drinking to far-flung places on stay-away weekend jaunts her priorities.

My point is, that as flawed as the status quo is now in respect of the law concerning Tenants/Landlords, and as severe as the Housing Crisis is now, it will ALL be a hell of a lot worse if Comrade Corbyn secures the Premiership, because if the type of tenant whom I have addressed here CANNOT be found 'Social' housing now, then what will happen when the THOUSANDS more just like her (and there IS that many, believe me) start being evicted en-masse by Landlords who are 'Selling Up' or stopping renting to Benefit Tenants altogether to protect themselves from Corbyn's stated policies - of which COMPULSORY DISCOUNTED PURCHASE is just one?

[Brillopad]

NOTHING in the above response addresses any of my post and it merely shows that you have completely missed the points which I was making.

Of which I will cover below, after I have pointed out what I believe to be very, very cleverly executed misrepresentations in your response of what I ACTUALLY stated in my post:

"As for your deceitful tenant, what has she got to do with Corbyn? Does Mays government allow sitting tenants or not? Does Mays government have landlords spending hundreds to get rid of sitting tenants or not?"

I NEVER stated anywhere that my tenant was a 'sitting tenant' because she is NOT.

However, a 'sitting tenant' is a lot more of an 'emotive' term which is highly likely to impress upon any 'unknowing' reader that I am callously trying to evict a very long-standing tenant who has been in the property for years when it used in an eviction scenario.

I am not a 'Landlord spending hundreds of pounds to 'GET RID' of a 'sitting tenant' - I am a landlord paying hundreds of pounds to EVICT a scumbag who owes me £5,000 in UNPAID RENT when she RECEIVES BENEFITS (Tax-Payers MONEY) with which to PAY that rent.

"Its not only benefit claimants who sit tight when they can't pay the rent and get an eviction order."

I have never stated ANYWHERE that this is a 'benefits claimant who sit(s) tight' because she 'CAN'T pay the rent'

I stated that this is a benefit claiming tenant who has FULL benefits coming in but WON'T pay any rent because she elects to SELFISHLY live the 'High Life' with all that Tax Payers money instead.

THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE IN MEANING BETEEN WHAT YOU REPRESENT THAT I SAID AND WHAT I ACTUALLY DID SAY IS THERE?

" But lets go back to benefit claimants and what they presently have to put up with re-subsidized government rent.

1. The government no longer pays deposits. I believe that was stopped in 2008
2. The government are notoriously slow at paying up and when they do pay up, they pay the tenanat and not the landlord. Again I believe this happened in 2008.
3. The government just stop payments without notice and for very little reason.
4. Government payments are always in arrears.
5. Since 2014 the government makes landlords jump through hoops of fire before they can let to people on benefit. All these rules are confusing and time consuming and leave the landlord feeling vulnerable.
Its the Tory government that have done this, not Corbyn."


NONE of the above has ANY relevance to my post at all - though you are misinformed regarding some of the listed 'facts'.

This tenant was receiving only a fraction of Housing Benefits because her WAGE, WORKING TAX CREDIT and other benefits virtually reached the stipulated 'Income Ceiling' for qualifying for Housing Benefits.

In other words, she was NOT a poor struggling 'under-privileged' person but enjoyed a GOOD level of income.

SHE and SHE alone was responsible for paying her rent to' keep a roof over hers and her two childrens' heads' - NOT the Housing Benefits.

Instead, she made buying expensive items, make-up, clothes and going out drinking to far-flung places on stay-away weekend jaunts her priorities.

My point is, that as flawed as the status quo is now in respect of the law concerning Tenants/Landlords, and as severe as the Housing Crisis is now, it will ALL be a hell of a lot worse if Comrade Corbyn secures the Premiership, because if the type of tenant whom I have addressed here CANNOT be found 'Social' housing now, then what will happen when the THOUSANDS more just like her (and there IS that many, believe me) start being evicted en-masse by Landlords who are 'Selling Up' or stopping renting to Benefit Tenants altogether to protect themselves from Corbyn's stated policies - of which COMPULSORY DISCOUNTED PURCHASE is just one?

Reminds me of some cases on ‘If you can’t pay’ - there are lots of irresponsible, selfish and dishonest tenants out there and for some to automatically make assumptions and try to present their view that the landlord is likely the ‘bad guy’ and the tenant the ‘victim’ is absurd. I have said it before and I say it again - AGENDAS.

[Kizzy]

I doubt many people want to discuss something from 2013..

It's current believe it or not... it made the papers today! :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Reminds me of some cases on ‘If you can’t pay’ - there are lots of irresponsible, selfish and dishonest tenants out there and for some to automatically make assumptions and try to present their view that the landlord is likely the ‘bad guy’ and the tenant the ‘victim’ is absurd. I have said it before and I say it again - AGENDAS.

Stop baiting, DR clearly stated had you bothered to read that she too owns property.

In your haste to blow kirks horn you missed that.

[Brillopad]

Stop baiting, DR clearly stated had you bothered to read that she too owns property.

In your haste to blow kirks horn you missed that.

And you stop trying to shut people down by accusing them of baiting especially as you have been accused of it many times.

Whether or not she owns property too is irrelevant. Her post was unnecessarily attacking of another poster and a lot of assumptions were made in my opinion. If I wish to comment on that I don’t need your permission.

[DemolitionRed]

NOTHING in the above response addresses any of my post and it merely shows that you have completely missed the points which I was making.

Of which I will cover below, after I have pointed out what I believe to be very, very cleverly executed misrepresentations in your response of what I ACTUALLY stated in my post:

"As for your deceitful tenant, what has she got to do with Corbyn? Does Mays government allow sitting tenants or not? Does Mays government have landlords spending hundreds to get rid of sitting tenants or not?"

I NEVER stated anywhere that my tenant was a 'sitting tenant' because she is NOT.

However, a 'sitting tenant' is a lot more of an 'emotive' term which is highly likely to impress upon any 'unknowing' reader that I am callously trying to evict a very long-standing tenant who has been in the property for years when it used in an eviction scenario.



Ok she was a tenant sitting in your property refusing to pay rent. You didn't say she trashed the place to the value of £5,000 (which you called arrears) and you did say you had to have her evicted and we all know how long that can take.


I am not a 'Landlord spending hundreds of pounds to 'GET RID' of a 'sitting tenant' - I am a landlord paying hundreds of pounds to EVICT a scumbag who owes me £5,000 in UNPAID RENT when she RECEIVES BENEFITS (Tax-Payers MONEY) with which to PAY that rent.

"Its not only benefit claimants who sit tight when they can't pay the rent and get an eviction order."

I have never stated ANYWHERE that this is a 'benefits claimant who sit(s) tight' because she 'CAN'T pay the rent'

No but you did say she received Working Tax Credits and Benefits and at the end of your post you made it clear that you would not accept anyone else who was on benefits which probably confused things as her benefits claims was just something that annoyed you but had no reflection on her not paying her dues.

I stated that this is a benefit claiming tenant who has FULL benefits coming in but WON'T pay any rent because she elects to SELFISHLY live the 'High Life' with all that Tax Payers money instead.


Sounds like she was just a greedy high living hussy. People don't have to be on benefits to fit that sort of personality.


THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE IN MEANING BETEEN WHAT YOU REPRESENT THAT I SAID AND WHAT I ACTUALLY DID SAY IS THERE?

When you type in capitals it doesn't come across any louder but as this was an obvious attempt to tell me off, I'll just say that I don't have a clue what you're saying here ^ and perhaps its because you claimed you would never take anyone on benefits again. The thing is, benefits was never the problem, the tenants attitude towards money was the problem. I also don't see what any of this has to do with Corbyn?


My point is, that as flawed as the status quo is now in respect of the law concerning Tenants/Landlords, and as severe as the Housing Crisis is now, it will ALL be a hell of a lot worse if Comrade Corbyn secures the Premiership, because if the type of tenant whom I have addressed here CANNOT be found 'Social' housing now, then what will happen when the THOUSANDS more just like her (and there IS that many, believe me) start being evicted en-masse by Landlords who are 'Selling Up' or stopping renting to Benefit Tenants altogether to protect themselves from Corbyn's stated policies - of which COMPULSORY DISCOUNTED PURCHASE is just one?

Thank you. Perhaps you should of said this in your initial post.

[DemolitionRed]

And you stop trying to shut people down by accusing them of baiting especially as you have been accused of it many times.

Whether or not she owns property too is irrelevant. Her post was unnecessarily attacking of another poster and a lot of assumptions were made in my opinion. If I wish to comment on that I don’t need your permission.

FFS Kirk and me are having a conversation. A heated one yes but a conversation never the less. I'm not attacking Kirk!!

[Kizzy]

And you stop trying to shut people down by accusing them of baiting especially as you have been accused of it many times.

Whether or not she owns property too is irrelevant. Her post was unnecessarily attacking of another poster and a lot of assumptions were made in my opinion. If I wish to comment on that I don’t need your permission.

You are not the forum police... how is it your place to shut DRs comment down if I can't refer to yours?
Double standard there.

[Brillopad]

FFS Kirk and me are having a conversation. A heated one yes but a conversation never the less. I'm not attacking Kirk!!

Well you are certainly over reacting now. I gave my opinion like you and everyone else does on a forum and will continue to do so.

[jet]

So you are conveniently pretending you haven't seen any of the many links I've posted that have nothing to do with my own experiences? Or maybe you just refused to read them? Unbelievable. Why would you knowingly even post something so untrue.

You haven't answered this which is no surprise to me as you ignore a lot that doesn't suit you to reply to. I guess you also just ignore the links I post (those links which you deny exist) even though I have posted them many times in conversation with you.
Ignoring and denying and diverting is a speciality which Corbyn fanatics have had to attempt to perfect given how dodgy and unpalatable he is. It doesn't work though because those tactics are so transparent.

[Kizzy]

You haven't answered this which is no surprise to me as you ignore a lot that doesn't suit you to reply to. I guess you also just ignore the links I post (those links which you deny exist) even though I have posted them many times in conversation with you.
Ignoring and denying and diverting is a speciality which Corbyn fanatics have had to attempt to perfect given how dodgy and unpalatable he is. It doesn't work though because those tactics are so transparent.

I've seen the links, I didn't see anything particularly troubling, I'm at a loss to see what you feel is so damning!
He wanted justice for those wrongfully arrested and he got it they were released and pardoned :/

[jet]

I've seen the links, I didn't see anything particularly troubling, I'm at a loss to see what you feel is so damning!
He wanted justice for those wrongfully arrested and he got it they were released and pardoned :/

Oh you admit now that you read the links when you previously said all I responded to when asked was my own personal experiences....what I asked was why you said that when you knew it wasn't true?

....and of course you wouldn't see anything which clearly and without doubt shows he was an IRA supporter because when it comes to Corbyn you have no objectivity at all.

[DemolitionRed]

Well you are certainly over reacting now. I gave my opinion like you and everyone else does on a forum and will continue to do so.

No, you used the word attack and I consider that childish and unnecessary. People here are allowed to strongly debate and call people out; that's what debate is for. If you want to take every disagreement as a personal slight on your character that's up to you but Kirk isn't a victim and doesn't need you to defend him. He's more than capable of looking after himself.

[jet]

Then give us evidence and I don't mean some random hearsay.

I don't care if my agreement isn't required. I'll continue with my own beliefs and you continue with yours.

Kizzy mark 2. :smug:

[Kizzy]

Oh you admit now that you read the links when you previously said all I responded to when asked was my own personal experiences....what I asked was why you said that when you knew it wasn't true?

....and of course you wouldn't see anything which clearly and without doubt shows he was an IRA supporter because when it comes to Corbyn you have no objectivity at all.

Your personal experience/view on the issues relating to NI, let's not forget however that once again Corbyn was RIGHT! you might not like it and at the time it might have appeared massively controversial I would have thought though that since time has vindicated him there be some objectivity from yourself as to this?

[Brillopad]

No, you used the word attack and I consider that childish and unnecessary. People here are allowed to strongly debate and call people out; that's what debate is for. If you want to take every disagreement as a personal slight on your character that's up to you but Kirk isn't a victim and doesn't need you to defend him. He's more than capable of looking after himself.

I don’t need your permission on who I can or can’t agree with thanks.

How have I taken a personal slant on my character - that makes no sense. Kirk is more than capable of defending himself - no-one in their right minds would doubt that. I think it is you taking things as a personal slight so I would appreciate it if you didn’t attempt to project that onto me.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy mark 2. :smug:

Default setting set to bait eh Jet? :smug:

[Kizzy]

I don’t need your permission on who I can or can’t agree with thanks.

How have I taken a personal slant on my character - that makes no sense. Kirk is more than capable of defending himself - no-one in their right minds would doubt that. I think it is you taking things as a personal slight so I would appreciate it if you didn’t attempt to project that onto me.

Wow she was attacking kirk and now you?... I'd have a sit down DR you must be exhausted from all these attacks :/

[Brillopad]

Default setting set to bait eh Jet? :smug:

Give it up Kizzy. Those who live in glass houses ... :rolleyes:

[jet]

Your personal experience/view on the issues relating to NI, let's not forget however that once again Corbyn was RIGHT! you might not like it and at the time it might have appeared massively controversial I would have thought though that since time has vindicated him there be some objectivity from yourself as to this?

You have once again avoided the question I asked.

Here's another one: How was Corbyn vindicated as a long time IRA supporter? Evidence?

[Brillopad]

Wow she was attacking kirk and now you?... I'd have a sit down DR you must be exhausted from all these attacks :/

Nope she was trying to project her insecurities onto me.

[DemolitionRed]

Kizzy mark 2. :smug:

I remind you of Kizzy. You remind me of Brillo... strange that innit!!

[DemolitionRed]

Wow she was attacking kirk and now you?... I'd have a sit down DR you must be exhausted from all these attacks :/

If I wasn't amused by all this I'd be asleep Kizzy :joker:

[Brillopad]

If I wasn't amused by all this I'd be asleep Kizzy :joker:

Sleep tight.

[kirklancaster]

Ok she was a tenant sitting in your property refusing to pay rent. You didn't say she trashed the place to the value of £5,000 (which you called arrears) and you did say you had to have her evicted and we all know how long that can take.

^ I am totally perplexed by this Red: I NEVER said that she "trashed the place to the value of £5,000" and I called it arrears because it IS arrears - she owes UNPAID rent amounting to £5,000.

No but you did say she received Working Tax Credits and Benefits and at the end of your post you made it clear that you would not accept anyone else who was on benefits which probably confused things as her benefits claims was just something that annoyed you but had no reflection on her not paying her dues.

^ I NEVER said that I was 'annoyed' because she claimed benefits - I am annoyed because she claimed Tax-Payers money to pay her rent with but DID NOT PAY ANY RENT.

Sounds like she was just a greedy high living hussy. People don't have to be on benefits to fit that sort of personality.

^ Again, I NEVER STATED or IMPLIED that people HAD to be on benefits to be ignorant non-rent paying skankers, it's just that this ignorant non-rent paying skanker IS on benefits.

When you type in capitals it doesn't come across any louder but as this was an obvious attempt to tell me off, I'll just say that I don't have a clue what you're saying here

???? :shrug: I was and am saying that IF YOU ARE GOING TO QUOTE MY POST OR PARAPHRASE FROM IT, PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE, ADD OR SUBTRACT FROM WHAT I HAVE ACTUALLY SAID TO MISREPRESENT WHAT I HAVE SAID TO SUIT YOUR PURPOSE (incidentally, I have seen posts HEADLINED in LARGE COLOURED TYPE which you REPRODUCED by quoting with no apparent problems. Yet, these posts were almost identical in style to posts of mine which you OBJECTED to. :shrug:

and perhaps its because you claimed you would never take anyone on benefits again. The thing is, benefits was never the problem, the tenants attitude towards money was the problem.

^ I NEVER claimed that 'benefits were the problem' and it was NOT 'the tenant's attitude to money which was the problem' it was the tenant's attitude to 'playing fair' that is the problem.

She is just one of those selfish, arrogant, ignorant, moralless low-lifes who think that she is above complying with the same Rules of Society and the same Laws of the Land which the rest of us have to comply with. I

I also don't see what any of this has to do with Corbyn?

^ If you do not grasp that EVEN after two additional posts now from me, then it is futile my trying to explain.

Thank you. Perhaps you should of said this in your initial post.

^ :laugh: I DID SAY SO - and I'm sure that every - impartial - reader would understand as much, but thank you for trying to imply that my standard of English and Grammar is below yours.

[jet]

I remind you of Kizzy. You remind me of Brillo... strange that innit!!

I replied to Kizzy up - thread with this, and this is why it reminded me of you:

Ignoring and denying and diverting is a speciality which Corbyn fanatics have had to attempt to perfect given how dodgy and unpalatable he is. It doesn't work though because those tactics are so transparent.


....and thanks for the Brillo compliment - she takes no s*** and doesn't let anyone run her off this forum though they've tried hard enough. I do admire a strong, resolute woman - just like my amazing wife! Thanks again! :flutter:

[jet]

^ :laugh: I DID SAY SO - and I'm sure that every - impartial - reader would understand as much, but thank you for trying to imply that my standard of English and Grammar is below yours.

This impartial reader understands perfectly, but then I have no need to twist your words to suit an agenda.

[kirklancaster]

This impartial reader understands perfectly, but then I have no need to twist your words to suit an agenda.

Thank you Jet.

[Kizzy]

You have once again avoided the question I asked.

Here's another one: How was Corbyn vindicated as a long time IRA supporter? Evidence?

He is vindicated by NOT being an IRA supporter, never was.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-ira-violence-1994-general-election-a7761801.html

[jet]

He is vindicated by NOT being an IRA supporter, never was.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-ira-violence-1994-general-election-a7761801.html

OMG Corbyn himself says he wasn't an IRA supporter!!!
Corbyn himself signed something commemorating the dead in 1994 (years after the height if his involvement in the 70's and 80's) that apparently PROVES he wasn't an IRA supporter!!!
This is irrefutable EVIDENCE indeed!!! :laugh:

All those links I posted including archive material about his IRA sympathies and support are wiped out by this one very important news link, he's vindicated, alert the media!!!

Seriously Kizzy, get a grip, you just sound foolish now.

[jet]

Some samples taken from the many more detailed links I have previously posted and which have been previously completely ignored. Perhaps you and other Corbynites will acknowledge at least these extracts this time?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...tain-rp79dvvmk

Diane Abbott backed victory for the IRA in an interview with a pro-republican journal, The Sunday Times has found.
Abbott, who will become home secretary if Labour wins the election, said in the 1984 interview that Ireland “is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.”
The interview was found during research by The Sunday Times in Irish and republican archives

The same files disclose that the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, personally led or took part in at least 72 separate events or actions with Sinn Fein and pro-republican groups during the years of the IRA’s armed struggle — far more than previously known.
These included a petition to Downing Street on behalf of Hugh Doherty, a member of the IRA’s Balcombe Street gang convicted of killing seven people, and protests against the extradition of Dessie Ellis, a top IRA bomb maker who has denied links to about 50 deaths.



The archives also show the main IRA-sympathising groups in Britain held private strategy meetings in Corbyn’s former constituency office — owned by the Labour Party and part-funded by taxpayers from his MP’s allowance.



The interview was published in Labour and Ireland, the journal of the Labour committee on Ireland (LCI), a small pro-republican support group in the party that operated at the height of the IRA’s armed struggle in the 1980s and early 1990s.
The archives disclose that LCI was chaired for some of the period by John McDonnell, now the shadow chancellor. Corbyn and Abbott were also regular speakers..
There were close links between LCI and the Troops Out Movement [Tom], another IRA-sympathising body with which Corbyn was closely associated. He spoke at more than 20 Troops Out events or meetings.



Corbyn has claimed he was seeking peace. However, Seamus Mallon, deputy to John Hume, the former Social Democratic and Labour Party leader and the architect of the peace process, told The Sunday Times: “I never heard anyone mention Corbyn at all.
“He very clearly took the side of the IRA and that was incompatible, in my opinion, with working for peace.”

https://www.irishnews.com/news/polit...hies--1032915/


Secretary of State James Brokenshire has rounded on Jeremy Corbyn for his "IRA sympathies".
Mr Brokenshire accused the Labour leader and his party colleagues, shadow chancellor John McDonnell and shadow home secretary Diane Abbott, of having "extremely worrying views" about IRA terrorism.
But Mr Brokenshire - who prior to the calling of the General Election had been facilitating talks between Stormont's Sinn Féin and the DUP in a bid to restore powersharing - demanded Mr Corbyn and his top team "come clean about their true attitudes towards IRA terrorism".
He accused Mr Corbyn of having a "long political career of sympathy for the IRA cause".

http://www.cityam.com/265655/jeremy-...le-ira-history



A week after the Brighton bombing, Corbyn invited Gerry Adams to the Commons.
Ireland’s Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said that, according to the evidence he has seen, Adams was not only an IRA member, but sat on its army council.
Corbyn was later arrested while on a pro-IRA protest at the trial of the bomber who had killed five people and injured a further 31. He also wrote for and supported a socialist magazine which gloated about the bombing and threatened Margaret Thatcher with further attacks.

Fifteen years previously, Corbyn was a member of the board of Labour Briefing, a fringe magazine for diehard leftists that unequivocally supported the IRA’s bombing campaign. Corbyn organised the magazine’s mailing-list and was a regular speaker at its events. In December 1984, the magazine“reaffirmed its support for, and solidarity with, the Irish republican
movement”.....Moreover...“It certainly appears to be the case that the British only sit up and take notice when they are bombed into it”. .
This was published a few weeks after the Brighton bombing.


Even Labour sympathisers found it hard to stomach Corbyn’s infatuation with the IRA. A 1996 editorial in the left-leaning Guardian, denounces his “romantic support for Irish Republicans” and states unequivocally: “Mr Corbyn's actions do not advance the cause of peace in Northern Ireland and are not seriously intended to do so”.

[kirklancaster]

Some samples taken from the many more detailed links I have previously posted and which have been previously completely ignored. Perhaps you and other Corbynites will acknowledge at least these extracts this time?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...tain-rp79dvvmk

https://www.irishnews.com/news/polit...hies--1032915/

http://www.cityam.com/265655/jeremy-...le-ira-history

:clap1::clap1::clap1:


“In order to escape accountability for his crimes, the perpetrator does everything in his power to promote forgetting. If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure no one listens.”

― Judith Lewis Herman, Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence - From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror

[DemolitionRed]

Supporting a cause does not mean supporting a killing. Corbyn supports the Palestinian cause and he's been framed as a terrorist sympathizer for doing so. If you don't support the Israeli apartheid you are deemed a terrorist sympathizer or worse, a hater of Jews.

I have no doubt that Corbyn was embroiled in Republican politics during the Irish conflicts but there were reasons. He didn't just wake up one morning and think "yes, I'm going to support the mafia side of the Irish conflict just for the hell of it". There was already a long history of Unionist abuse and Corbyn is big on human rights (as we see with Palestine). Yes they were killing people and yes, they targeted innocents but this was a war and there was a cause... a united Ireland. And so if we look at the cause of the conflict; if we understand the history behind the conflict and understand that it was the Loyalists and British military who were targetting Republican protesters with tear gas before the real troubles began, it makes sense that he, a human rights thinker, would reach out to the cause he believed in with some sort of peaceful dialogue.
He was doing this openly and that's why he was being watched by MI5 who have since closed the case on him because they had nothing on him. The government were doing the same in the hope of finding mutual solidarity but did so in a more covert way.

The British media and the present government are attempting to give us all the impression that Corbyn supported IRA killings but none of them have any reliable sources. If MI5 can't give them anything of substance then nobody can and they were supposedly at every campaign he ever attended.

[jet]

Supporting a cause does not mean supporting a killing. Corbyn supports the Palestinian cause and he's been framed as a terrorist sympathizer for doing so. If you don't support the Israeli apartheid you are deemed a terrorist sympathizer or worse, a hater of Jews.

I have no doubt that Corbyn was embroiled in Republican politics during the Irish conflicts but there were reasons. He didn't just wake up one morning and think "yes, I'm going to support the mafia side of the Irish conflict just for the hell of it". There was already a long history of Unionist abuse and Corbyn is big on human rights (as we see with Palestine). Yes they were killing people and yes, they targeted innocents but this was a war and there was a cause... a united Ireland. And so if we look at the cause of the conflict; if we understand the history behind the conflict and understand that it was the Loyalists and British military who were targetting Republican protesters with tear gas before the real troubles began, it makes sense that he, a human rights thinker, would reach out to the cause he believed in with some sort of peaceful dialogue.
He was doing this openly and that's why he was being watched by MI5 who have since closed the case on him because they had nothing on him. The government were doing the same in the hope of finding mutual solidarity but did so in a more covert way.

The British media and the present government are attempting to give us all the impression that Corbyn supported IRA killings but none of them have any reliable sources. If MI5 can't give them anything of substance then nobody can and they were supposedly at every campaign he ever attended.

Supporting a cause does not mean supporting a killing.

Really? If you are a decent human being you support a cause through democratic means. If you support a cause where the participants are killing and maiming thousands of innocent men, women, children and babies indiscriminately to achieve their aims, then you are supporting the actions of cold blooded murderers and thugs. There is NO way out of that, and trying to excuse his support is monstrous imo.

I take it you don’t agree with democracy? The people of N.Ireland (Protestant and many Catholic) voted democratically to remain part of the UK, the WAR was the one the IRA inflicted on the citizens with the use of bombs and bullets to murder their way into something the majority didn’t want!

...and your potted history of N. Ireland and the origins of the conflict is woefully uncomplicated and ignorant, but then you didn’t live here in the midst of the worst of it like I did so I’ll overlook that as haven’t the inclination or the hours of my time needed to explain the culpability of both sides through the years.

Yes they were killing people and yes, they targeted innocents but this was a war and there was a cause... a united Ireland.

This is despicable in its apologist stance.
There was NO justification for the indiscriminate slaughter of innocents, there was NO justification for Corbyn's support; the minute he smells anything anti - British he's there, poking his nose in and dishing out tea and sympathy.

I see you have conveniently ignored these quotes from republican archives I posted in my previous post...

These included a petition (by Corbyn) to Downing Street on behalf of Hugh Doherty, a member of the IRA’s Balcombe Street gang convicted of killing seven people, and protests against the extradition of Dessie Ellis, a top IRA bomb maker who has denied links to about 50 deaths.

Corbyn was later arrested while on a pro-IRA protest at the trial of the bomber who had killed five people and injured a further 31.
................................................
DemolitionRed:
The British media and the present government are attempting to give us all the impression that Corbyn supported IRA killings but none of them have any reliable sources.


The media and the Government know darn well he was an IRA supporter, the impartial world and its mother knows he was an IRA supporter.

....so I'll repeat part of what I said in my first paragraph: If you support a cause where the participants are killing and maiming thousands of innocent men, women, children and babies indiscriminately to achieve their aims, then you are supporting cold blooded murderers and thugs.
The proof and reliability that he supported IRA killings are there in his own actions.

These quotes from the Spectator say it well:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...t-for-the-ira/

It cannot be said too often that there is nothing intrinsically objectionable about supporting the idea of a united Ireland. But if you did – or still do – support that goal you had a choice. You could ally yourself with the SDLP or you could chum around with Sinn Fein and the IRA. The choice mattered because it was a choice between decency and indecency, between constitutional politics and paramilitary politics. Corbyn, like his Shadow Chancellor, made his choice and chose indecency.


Jeremy Corbyn didn’t help bring peace to Northern Ireland, he helped delay it by enabling those who bore primary responsibility for the violence. Now he and his supporters wish to rewrite history, the better to pretend Corbyn was somehow ‘ahead of the curve’. He was no such thing. His vision of peace did not advocate compromise and dialogue. If it had he might have spent more – or some – time speaking with Unionists and other parties with whose analysis he disagreed. But his vision did not do this and so he did not ‘engage’ with anyone in this fashion. No amount of whitewash can cover up this stain upon his record, his worldview and his judgement.

[Brillopad]

Really? If you are a decent human being you support a cause through democratic means. If you support a cause where the participants are killing and maiming thousands of innocent men, women, children and babies indiscriminately to achieve their aims, then you are supporting the actions of cold blooded murderers and thugs. There is NO way out of that, and trying to excuse his support is monstrous imo.

I take it you don’t agree with democracy? The people of N.Ireland (Protestant and many Catholic) voted democratically to remain part of the UK, the WAR was the one the IRA inflicted on the citizens with the use of bombs and bullets to murder their way into something the majority didn’t want!

...and your potted history of N. Ireland and the origins of the conflict is woefully uncomplicated and ignorant, but then you didn’t live here in the midst of the worst of it like I did so I’ll overlook that as haven’t the inclination or the hours of my time needed to explain the culpability of both sides through the years.



This is despicable in its apologist stance.
There was NO justification for the indiscriminate slaughter of innocents, there was NO justification for Corbyn's support; the minute he smells anything anti - British he's there, poking his nose in and dishing out tea and sympathy.

I see you have conveniently ignored these quotes from republican archives I posted in my previous post...




................................................
DemolitionRed:


The media and the Government know darn well he was an IRA supporter, the impartial world and its mother knows he was an IRA supporter.

....so I'll repeat part of what I said in my first paragraph: If you support a cause where the participants are killing and maiming thousands of innocent men, women, children and babies indiscriminately to achieve their aims, then you are supporting cold blooded murderers and thugs.
The proof and reliability that he supported IRA killings are there in his own actions.

These quotes from the Spectator say it well:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...t-for-the-ira/

Great post Jet.

I don’t claim to have any personal experience of the Irish troubles but I know cold blooded murder when I see it. It isn’t For a bunch of militant fanatics to declare ‘war’ on innocent people and can never be justified. They were murderers - and no amount of rhetoric will change that. Supporting terrorism, whatever the cause, is no better.

Like you I find the attempted justification for mass murder very disturbing and believe such attitutudes are part of the problem. People have a right to a cause but not to murder innocent people - it is idealistic garbage that demonstrates a lack of humanity. People with such ideologies who believe they have the right to sacrifice others for their beliefs are dangerous and should never be appeased. Sacrificing their own lives for their cause may be considered admirable but sacrificing others is simple cowardice.

[Kizzy]

OMG Corbyn himself says he wasn't an IRA supporter!!!
Corbyn himself signed something commemorating the dead in 1994 (years after the height if his involvement in the 70's and 80's) that apparently PROVES he wasn't an IRA supporter!!!
This is irrefutable EVIDENCE indeed!!! :laugh:

All those links I posted including archive material about his IRA sympathies and support are wiped out by this one very important news link, he's vindicated, alert the media!!!

Seriously Kizzy, get a grip, you just sound foolish now.

I won't be railroaded on this you have highlighted in your post Hugh Doherty, who I refered to in an earlier post they were released and exonerated.

Your 'links' where are they? the LCI were 'linked' to this and that.... where?

The rest is personal opinion, from rival politicians and journalists.

Yes he was arrested that's well documented.

To me you sound foolish... You're not posting evidence of his personal guilt for anything, just hearsay and supposition.

[jet]

I won't be railroaded on this you have highlighted in your post Hugh Doherty, who I refered to in an earlier post they were released and exonerated.

Your 'links' where are they? the LCI were 'linked' to this and that.... where?

The rest is personal opinion, from rival politicians and journalists.

Yes he was arrested that's well documented.

To me you sound foolish... You're not posting evidence of his personal guilt for anything, just hearsay and supposition.

Trust what I post, I do my research, here is an example of that for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Doherty_(Irish_republican)

Hugh Doherty is an Irish republican and former volunteer in the Provisional Irish Republican Army. He is known for his role in the Balcombe Street Siege of December 1975, at the resolution of which he was sentenced to eleven terms of life imprisonment for murder, with a judicial recommendation he serve at least 30 years.[1][2][3]

Doherty and fellow members of his active service unit had targeted civilians, soldiers, policemen and politicians as part of the IRA's campaign against British rule in Northern Ireland.[4][5][6][7] During this time they are believed to have killed sixteen people in England[8] including Ross McWhirter, who had offered a £50,000 reward for their arrest, and Gordon Hamilton-Fairley.

The Balcombe Street gang, who were named after the London street on which they were arrested after a five-day siege, were allegedly responsible for 16 murders. During a 14-month campaign across the south-east of England they carried out 50 bombings and shootings.[9]

Doherty's bombing campaign was brought to an end after a five-day siege that was broadcast live on television and watched by millions.[9]

Doherty served 23 years in British prisons before being transferred to Portlaoise prison in Ireland.

In 1987 Jeremy Corbyn handed a petition to then-prime minister Margaret Thatcher demanding better visiting conditions for Doherty and his fellow IRA prisoner Nat Vella and “the immediate transfer of Irish political prisoners to prisons near their homes”.[9]

Doherty made an appearance at the 1998 Sinn Féin Ard Fheis at which the party accepted the Belfast Agreement, under the terms of which Doherty was later released from prison.[1]

I pity those who can't decipher what is in front of them in black and white and just deny deny deny. They don't understand how foolish they look. It's pitiful.

[Kizzy]

Trust what I post, I do my research, here is an example of that for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Doherty_(Irish_republican)



I pity those who can't decipher what is in front of them in black and white and just deny deny deny. They don't understand how foolish they look. It's pitiful.

No I don't think I will, I do my own research thank you.
So wiki is more reliable than the British justice system then?...

[jet]

No I don't think I will, I do my own research thank you.
So wiki is more reliable than the British justice system then?...

He was NOT exonerated. He was released after a long time with most IRA prisoners as part of the Good Friday Agreement!

OMG. There comes a time when all you can do is.....:joker::joker::joker:

[Kizzy]

He was NOT exonerated. He was released after a long time with most IRA prisoners as part of the Good Friday Agreement!

OMG. There comes a time when all you can do is.....:joker::joker::joker:

That would explain the release not the exoneration.

[jet]

That would explain the release not the exoneration.

ok You are a hoot kizzy. :laugh:

[Kizzy]

ok You are a hoot kizzy. :laugh:

As are you.

[jet]

:clap1::clap1::clap1:


“In order to escape accountability for his crimes, the perpetrator does everything in his power to promote forgetting. If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure no one listens.”

― Judith Lewis Herman, Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence - From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror

Thanks Kirk. That is such an apt quote. :clap1:

[jet]

Great post Jet.

I don’t claim to have any personal experience of the Irish troubles but I know cold blooded murder when I see it. It isn’t For a bunch of militant fanatics to declare ‘war’ on innocent people and can never be justified. They were murderers - and no amount of rhetoric will change that. Supporting terrorism, whatever the cause, is no better.

Like you I find the attempted justification for mass murder very disturbing and believe such attitutudes are part of the problem. People have a right to a cause but not to murder innocent people - it is idealistic garbage that demonstrates a lack of humanity. People with such ideologies who believe they have the right to sacrifice others for their beliefs are dangerous and should never be appeased. Sacrificing their own lives for their cause may be considered admirable but sacrificing others is simple cowardice.

Absolutely...and those who support those who support terrorism are despicable.

[jaxie]

Really? If you are a decent human being you support a cause through democratic means. If you support a cause where the participants are killing and maiming thousands of innocent men, women, children and babies indiscriminately to achieve their aims, then you are supporting the actions of cold blooded murderers and thugs. There is NO way out of that, and trying to excuse his support is monstrous imo.

I take it you don’t agree with democracy? The people of N.Ireland (Protestant and many Catholic) voted democratically to remain part of the UK, the WAR was the one the IRA inflicted on the citizens with the use of bombs and bullets to murder their way into something the majority didn’t want!

...and your potted history of N. Ireland and the origins of the conflict is woefully uncomplicated and ignorant, but then you didn’t live here in the midst of the worst of it like I did so I’ll overlook that as haven’t the inclination or the hours of my time needed to explain the culpability of both sides through the years.



This is despicable in its apologist stance.
There was NO justification for the indiscriminate slaughter of innocents, there was NO justification for Corbyn's support; the minute he smells anything anti - British he's there, poking his nose in and dishing out tea and sympathy.

I see you have conveniently ignored these quotes from republican archives I posted in my previous post...




................................................
DemolitionRed:


The media and the Government know darn well he was an IRA supporter, the impartial world and its mother knows he was an IRA supporter.

....so I'll repeat part of what I said in my first paragraph: If you support a cause where the participants are killing and maiming thousands of innocent men, women, children and babies indiscriminately to achieve their aims, then you are supporting cold blooded murderers and thugs.
The proof and reliability that he supported IRA killings are there in his own actions.

These quotes from the Spectator say it well:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...t-for-the-ira/

Great post Jet. I think people need to walk a mile in your shoes before claiming they know how it was. None of us do, we only have glimpses.

[Kizzy]

“In order to escape accountability for his crimes, the perpetrator does everything in his power to promote forgetting. If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure no one listens.”

Isn't that happening to Corbyn now?

[jaxie]

“In order to escape accountability for his crimes, the perpetrator does everything in his power to promote forgetting. If secrecy fails, the perpetrator attacks the credibility of his victim. If he cannot silence her absolutely, he tries to make sure no one listens.”

Isn't that happening to Corbyn now?

I don't think so no, Kizzy. I understand that you are devoted to this person and that's your right but you have to remember that the position he is in means that he could one day be the leader of this country and that means he is and should be open to scruitiny. It's important.

[jet]

Great post Jet. I think people need to walk a mile in your shoes before claiming they know how it was. None of us do, we only have glimpses.

Thanks Jaxie. :love:

[Kizzy]

I don't think so no, Kizzy. I understand that you are devoted to this person and that's your right but you have to remember that the position he is in means that he could one day be the leader of this country and that means he is and should be open to scruitiny. It's important.

I'm not 'devoted' to him... I support him and his stance here. Tom Watson agreed that Owen smith was wrong to create that article, I agree with them both.

[jet]

I'm not 'devoted' to him... I support him and his stance here. Tom Watson agreed that Owen smith was wrong to create that article, I agree with them both.

You give a wonderful impression of it.

[Kizzy]

You give a wonderful impression of it.

Stop baiting.