Police called to Alder Hay hospital because of Alfie Evans protest

[jaxie]

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/alfie-evans-police-called-to-alder-hey-childrens-hospital-as-hundreds-join-protest-11328278

I am struggling to understand what the family and people gathering think they will achieve by this. It says in the article that the father says the hospital is preventing them taking him home and look how healthy he is. Clearly you can't just pick up a child on life support and trot off with them.

It must be hard to accept the death of a child but the disruption to a hospital treating many other sick children seems grossly unfair.

[Kazanne]

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/alfie-evans-police-called-to-alder-hey-childrens-hospital-as-hundreds-join-protest-11328278

I am struggling to understand what the family and people gathering think they will achieve by this. It says in the article that the father says the hospital is preventing them taking him home and look how healthy he is. Clearly you can't just pick up a child on life support and trot off with them.

It must be hard to accept the death of a child but the disruption to a hospital treating many other sick children seems grossly unfair.

This is a hard one Jaxie, I saw the dad on video ,he was obviously distraught,I think maybe in that situation as a parent you would cling to the fact that some people have come out of comas etc, you would cling to any hope,but the hospital seem to think there is no hope for Alfie,so as an outsider you would think they know best as I said this is a hard one ,no one will win.

[Crimson Dynamo]

hysteria versus medical science

[Kazanne]

hysteria versus medical science

Science isn't ALWAYS right LT.

[user104658]

I think this is an inevitable part of the Internet / social media era, it's been happening a lot lately. People have Google, so they can gather a lot of information on various conditions very quickly and form their own strong opinions vs medical professionals. And then they have social media to quickly gather a crowd of supporters, who generally mean well, but don't actually know exactly what they're campaigning for. A lot of people do very little, if any, research of their own before jumping into these sorts of campaigns.

It is understandable that people want to cling onto something as long as possible... But it can I think lead to people holding onto false hope for extended periods of time, which can make coming to terms with these unthinkable things even harder.

[Cherie]

These cases are becoming so common now, people can't accept the inevitability, doctors will be working on behalf of the child,

this comment says it all

This is my son. Look at my healthy, healthy young boy who is undiagnosed, who is certainly not dying."


How can he not be dying if he needs a machine to keep him alive?

These same people protesting will be the same people who rock up in A and E with a cut finger

[Cherie]

Oh snap TS, look at us on the same page

[Denver]

Im sorry but they dont care about the child like they should they just want the child to suffer by being selfish.

Put the childs needs first not your own

[Niamh.]

Im sorry but they dont care about the child like they should they just want the child to suffer by being selfish.

Put the childs needs first not your own

Ah stop, that's an awful thing to say, that's their baby, i couldn't even imagine having to go through that. It may not be the right thing but saying they want him to suffer is really below the belt. They don't want him to die

[Denver]

Ah stop, that's an awful thing to say, that's their baby, i couldn't even imagine having to go through that. It may not be the right thing but saying they want him to suffer is really below the belt. They don't want him to die

there is one thing wanting your baby to survive, but to want him to be taken from life support when he wont breathe on his own or to keep the child in pain is not a nice thing at all.

Sometimes in life you have to realise bad things will happened there is no way of stopping them, Id just want the child to be pain free in peace

[Niamh.]

there is one thing wanting your baby to survive, but to want him to be taken from life support when he wont breathe on his own or to keep the child in pain is not a nice thing at all.

Sometimes in life you have to realise bad things will happened there is no way of stopping them, Id just want the child to be pain free in peace

I agree with you that it's not the right thing to do but they're clearly in denial and taking it very badly (which is completely understandable tbf, even thinking about being in their shoes fills me with horror)

[Denver]

Sometimes in life you have to put other peoples pain first

[AnnieK]

From what I saw last night - they have medics and full equipment available but want to get him to Italy where they have been promised pioneering treatment. They have a private medical jet at their disposal. Its not a case of they want to rip his tubes out and take him to McDonalds.

I feel desperately sorry for them all - although the medics are not acting maliciously either - they don't want him to suffer and believe they can't help him futher

[Niamh.]

From what I saw last night - they have medics and full equipment available but want to get him to Italy where they have been promised pioneering treatment. They have a private medical jet at their disposal. Its not a case of they want to rip his tubes out and take him to McDonalds.

I feel desperately sorry for them all - although the medics are not acting maliciously either - they don't want him to suffer and believe they can't help him futher

Oh OK, if that's the case then I completely understand why they're fighting, if there's any chance of saving him, wouldn't every parent fight tooth and nail to try?

[user104658]

From what I saw last night - they have medics and full equipment available but want to get him to Italy where they have been promised pioneering treatment. They have a private medical jet at their disposal. Its not a case of they want to rip his tubes out and take him to McDonalds.

I feel desperately sorry for them all - although the medics are not acting maliciously either - they don't want him to suffer and believe they can't help him futherThis is very much the same as the last similar case though; that time doctors in America, pioneering treatments, making huge promises... It all turned out to be insubstantial.

[AnnieK]

This is very much the same as the last similar case though; that time doctors in America, pioneering treatments, making huge promises... It all turned out to be insubstantial.

Yeah, I know that. I was just making the distinction as Adam seemed to think they wanted to remove him from his life support to take him home but that isn't the case at the moment.

Heartbreaking for all

[Denver]

Will he even survive the long journey to another country? its not like they are moving him up the road

[user104658]

Oh OK, if that's the case then I completely understand why they're fighting, if there's any chance of saving him, wouldn't every parent fight tooth and nail to try?The issue is that neurological damage can only ever be halted, it can't be reversed... And if doctors here have assessed the child as being beyond recovery, then attempting to prolong his life with pioneering treatments isn't necessarily the right thing to do.

These cases are the toughest ones really because like the dad says, what you actually see is a "healthy looking boy" and we have instincts for identifying people who are very ill or dying. If a dying family member LOOKS very ill, people tend to accept it. But in these cases, there's nothing wrong with their physical bodies so they can look physically totally fine even when effectively brain dead. I think it creates a situation for family that's very hard to process.

[Niamh.]

The issue is that neurological damage can only ever be halted, it can't be reversed... And if doctors here have assessed the child as being beyond recovery, then attempting to prolong his life with pioneering treatments isn't necessarily the right thing to do.

These cases are the toughest ones really because like the dad says, what you actually see is a "healthy looking boy" and we have instincts for identifying people who are very ill or dying. If a dying family member LOOKS very ill, people tend to accept it. But in these cases, there's nothing wrong with their physical bodies so they can look physically totally fine even when effectively brain dead. I think it creates a situation for family that's very hard to process.

Yeah that makes sense. Ugh just heartbreaking though

[user104658]

Yeah that makes sense. Ugh just heartbreaking thoughI'm pretty sure I wouldn't get through it in all honesty.

[Niamh.]

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get through it in all honesty.

I know, I just don't know where people get the strength to keep going tbh, I guess if you have other children you'd have to do your best

[jaxie]

I think this is an inevitable part of the Internet / social media era, it's been happening a lot lately. People have Google, so they can gather a lot of information on various conditions very quickly and form their own strong opinions vs medical professionals. And then they have social media to quickly gather a crowd of supporters, who generally mean well, but don't actually know exactly what they're campaigning for. A lot of people do very little, if any, research of their own before jumping into these sorts of campaigns.

It is understandable that people want to cling onto something as long as possible... But it can I think lead to people holding onto false hope for extended periods of time, which can make coming to terms with these unthinkable things even harder.

Yes I think you are completely right TS, particularly about it all making the inevitable harder to accept.

I suppose I find all the protesters buying into the idea that the hospital don't have the child's best interests at heart hard to understand. Hospitals like Alder Hay and Great Ormand Street give amazing, dedicated care and save lives every day. They aren't the enemy.

TBH I don't think the Pope and his children's hospital have been very helpful either in both this and the Charlie Gard case. Since what is wrong is undiagnosed because its so rare how can they have something to help? It seems like peddling false hope.

I suspect if they take him home they will run straight to chunnel in their specially equipped van.

[AnnieK]

The parents have been granted a fresh appeal in Court on Monday

[Kizzy]

This is very much the same as the last similar case though; that time doctors in America, pioneering treatments, making huge promises... It all turned out to be insubstantial.

That was one instance, you can't gauge all attempts the same due to one failed treatment.
The point is they and others are willing to try.

[Kizzy]

The parents have been granted a fresh appeal in Court on Monday

Great news :)

[Cherie]

Last year we were asked to contribute to a fund raised by friends in Spain to get a little lad to the USA, the amount of money they needed was ALOT, they were lucky in the money needed was donated by a benefactor from Man City, just before Christmas there was a minutes silence for the little lad who passed away despite being taken to the States, most of the time this does not work but I can appreciate miracles do happen, this should be between the parents, the hospital and the court, protesters who know little about what has gone should not be involved, having to involve the police is all kinds of wrong

[chuff me dizzy]

This has just come up on my Facebook IF Alfie doesn't survive what will happen to all this money ?

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/sarah-evans-791

[Tom4784]

Science isn't ALWAYS right LT.

Except it is? I feel for the family but they are being irrational and selfish in trying to pretend that their child is 'healthy, undiagnosed and certainly not dying.' None of those things are true.

Too many people in this world use their feelings as their facts.

[Tom4784]

I think this is an inevitable part of the Internet / social media era, it's been happening a lot lately. People have Google, so they can gather a lot of information on various conditions very quickly and form their own strong opinions vs medical professionals. And then they have social media to quickly gather a crowd of supporters, who generally mean well, but don't actually know exactly what they're campaigning for. A lot of people do very little, if any, research of their own before jumping into these sorts of campaigns.

It is understandable that people want to cling onto something as long as possible... But it can I think lead to people holding onto false hope for extended periods of time, which can make coming to terms with these unthinkable things even harder.

I agree with that, A lot of the protesters probably don't even fully understand what they are protesting against.They probably just saw a 'only people with a heart will SHARE THIS!' style post and went in on it without understanding the situation at all.

[jaxie]

It doesn't sound as if there is anything particularly new in this new legal attempt from what has been said in the press so far.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43750597

"In December, they said Bambino Gesu would give Alfie a tracheotomy and a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) to allow him to be fed through his stomach.
But Alder Hey's hospital trust argues that Bambino Gesu has a similar belief that care for Alfie should be palliative."

palliative care
noun
noun: palliative care
care for the terminally ill and their families, especially that provided by an organized health service.

[user104658]

It doesn't sound as if there is anything particularly new in this new legal attempt from what has been said in the press so far.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-43750597

"In December, they said Bambino Gesu would give Alfie a tracheotomy and a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) to allow him to be fed through his stomach.
But Alder Hey's hospital trust argues that Bambino Gesu has a similar belief that care for Alfie should be palliative."

palliative care
noun
noun: palliative care
care for the terminally ill and their families, especially that provided by an organized health service.

So it's ways to keep him "alive" for longer but still in a coma or state of unresponsive wakefulness. Honestly, I think sadly the only reason people do this or consider doing this is denial. It's understandable for family members I guess... but I don't know why anyone else would encourage it, especially any medical staff of any hospital.

[Brillopad]

there is one thing wanting your baby to survive, but to want him to be taken from life support when he wont breathe on his own or to keep the child in pain is not a nice thing at all.

Sometimes in life you have to realise bad things will happened there is no way of stopping them, Id just want the child to be pain free in peace

Come back to us on that one when you have a child! There is so much you can’t possibly understand about being a parent and the feelings involved until you actually become one. This is a perfect example of where experience counts for everything.

[Denver]

Come back to us on that one when you have a child! There is so much you can’t possibly understand about being a parent and the feelings involved until you actually become one. This is a perfect example of where experience counts for everything.

And how would you know I don't have a child?

[AnnieK]

To be fair to Adam Brillo, I think that even as a parent this is one situation that no one knows how they would deal with it until they are in it (god forbid). I certainly would not want my child to suffer any unnecessary pain and if that meant letting him go, then that is what I would do (would probably go with him if truth be known as he is my only one).

[Cal.]

I’m not sure what’s for the best because I haven’t followed it properly but from what I can gather the parents are clearly hysterical at being told their boy’s life support machine will be switched off and are acting in a very irrational way. Nobody should judge them for their actions at the moment.

[Beso]

Except it is? I feel for the family but they are being irrational and selfish in trying to pretend that their child is 'healthy, undiagnosed and certainly not dying.' None of those things are true.

Too many people in this world use their feelings as their facts.

Didnt science tell us diesel cars were better for the environment than petrol cars.:shrug:

[AnnieK]

Alfie is now a citizen of Italy, family hopeful Alder Hey will now let him go. Some awful scenes outside the hospital today of protesters trying to storm in but the family asked them to remain peaceful.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-merseyside-43872678

[Denver]

So the protester's care so much about Alfie but where are the concerns for the other I'll children they are bringing distress

[Amy Jade]

The father is literally telling yobs to go down and riot.

A woman today got stuck outside the hospital because of security shutting the place down, her child was in in the midst of critical surgery. He and all the tramps outside causing others anguish are a disgrace.

[Shaun]

How sad that a baby's life has to end among such a sea of awful mob mentality (and behaviour).

[Marsh.]

I hope they make it to Italy. :love:

[Vicky.]

Mr Evans encouraged people to come to the hospital to stand outside and "tell them to release our son" in a "quiet protest".

Yeah right. Because large crowds of people on SJW type missions always tend to be 'peaceful' right...encouraging a mob outside a hospital is ****.

'Tell them' too, because medical professionals know nothing about whats best for the cvhild...

Looks like. from the little I know of this, another Charlie Gard story tbh. I cannot imagine ever being in such a situation, but I would like to think I would do the least selfish thing and let the child go instead of prolonging the inevitable

[AnnieK]

The hospital continued with removing life support. Alfie was not expected to survive for more than 3 minutes off the ventilator but 9 hours on and he is still sustaining life. A very sad story of a very poorly boy but due to social media it has been whipped into such a frenzy. I don't know what I would do in this situation but posting on FB I think would be the last thing on my mind

[Kizzy]

OMG....ok I'm in tears!!

Come on alfie :D

'The father of Alfie Evans has claimed doctors were left “gobsmacked” after the terminally ill toddler’s life support was withdrawn but he continued to survive.

Tom Evans said it was obvious his son was breathing unassisted “within a few minutes” of life support being withdrawn on Monday night.

A spokeswoman for the hospital said they could not confirm or deny his account as they did not comment on individual cases.'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/alfie-evans-life-support-latest-upodates-toddler-high-court-tom-evans-a8319401.html

[Denver]

They might sue the hospital for murder are they serious?

[Kizzy]

Of course they are serious, the boy is alive if they are refusing to treat yes, now he is off life support it's a whole new ball game.

[Denver]

The courts said to stop all treatment.

He should be arrested for organising protests and stopping families seeing their I'll children

[arista]

I hope they make it to Italy. :love:

No
the Hospital will not let him leave
as he is too ill,

[Marsh.]

No
the Hospital will not let him leave
as he is too ill,Shush.

[arista]

Shush.

Also the Barrister has been changed.

[jaxie]

They might sue the hospital for murder are they serious?

According to a report today the father has had three doctors filed with the papers for a private prosecution for conspiracy to murder.

[Denver]

According to a report today the father has had three doctors filed with the papers for a private prosecution for conspiracy to murder.

He has no grounds to stand on,

[Amy Jade]

I am sick of seeing people on facebook who work as cleaners in lidl attacking the staff at the hospital and saying they are killing kids and crap at their jobs.

These very people save thousands of childrens lives with very little praise. Some woman I have on fb because I know her daughter is spouting some rubbish saying all the staff in Alder Hey should be fired and people are agreeding. The stupid twat, proper making me angry.

[AnnieK]

He has no grounds to stand on,

He's in pain for his son and lashing out, probably had some dubious legal advice from a FB Law Specialist. His son is struggling for breath and he can't get him any help....its an awful situation for anyone to face

[AnnieK]

I am sick of seeing people on facebook who work as cleaners in lidl attacking the staff at the hospital and saying they are killing kids and crap at their jobs.

These very people save thousands of childrens lives with very little praise. Some woman I have on fb because I know her daughter is spouting some rubbish saying all the staff in Alder Hey should be fired and people are agreeding. The stupid twat, proper making me angry.

People are still angry at Alder Hey for the organ harvesting that went on and they are latching on to Alfie as q way to vent that anger. It is awful, I've read posts of people whose kids were in surgery when they were threatening to set off fire alarms begging them not to......they need to send all the protesters away and just concentrate on their baby now. So sad......

[Vicky.]

He's in pain for his son and lashing out, probably had some dubious legal advice from a FB Law Specialist. His son is struggling for breath and he can't get him any help....its an awful situation for anyone to face

Indeed.

Whoever his lawyer is is taking advantage of his grief in order to make some cash, tbh. Despicable.

[Marsh.]

He has no grounds to stand on,And you clearly know more about the situation than the lawyers he has consulted and the actual people involved.

[Denver]

And you clearly know more about the situation than the lawyers he has consulted and the actual people involved.

The courts have stated the life support machine must be switched off so they cant then be culpable for murder

[Denver]

ALDER Hey Hospital is tonight on lockdown amid rumours of a planned raid by protesters supporting ill toddler Alfie Evans.

He was barred from going to Italy for treatment after another failed legal challenge as the Appeal Court rejected pleas by Alfie's family to have him airlifted from the Liverpool clinic.

What sick people trying to bring harm to hundreds of ill kids

[Marsh.]

The courts have stated the life support machine must be switched off so they cant then be culpable for murder

It says he's "threatened" past tense and has "plans" moving forward so we don't know, he could have grounds for some kind of legal action.

The same thing happened when my brother was born, the hospital were culpable, not to outright blame for his condition, but some serious faults were made and he was let down by some ridiculous "procedures" and there was grounds for legal action.

[jaxie]

I feel so sorry for all the other families with sick kids at the hospital. It must be very difficult for them.

[Denver]

I feel so sorry for all the other families with sick kids at the hospital. It must be very difficult for them.

Ive heard some families have been shut outside because of the protests.

The hospital are being accused of not letting the boy go with his family yet they are denying families the right to see their sick children some who will not have long to live

[jaxie]

Ive heard some families have been shut outside because of the protests.

The hospital are being accused of not letting the boy go with his family yet they are denying families the right to see their sick children some who will not have long to live

What is a bit of a worry is that these court battles and hospital demonstrations will become a trend when people don't want to deal with terrible news. Hospital staff save a lot of lives and do an amazing job but are already under pressure.

[user104658]

What is a bit of a worry is that these court battles and hospital demonstrations will become a trend when people don't want to deal with terrible news. Hospital staff save a lot of lives and do an amazing job but are already under pressure.

Exactly - there's a social media mob for every occasion these days, it's getting dangerously out of control in my opinion.

[Maru]

I don't really agree at all with govts or doctors having the final say. I've had too many shoddy doctors. Doctors are not always right and sometimes they just add to the confusion/misery and can even be the cause of the initial problem. I lost 2 decades of my life to bad medical advice and malpractice, so I can't say that I can go on their word alone... hospitals and insurance have their own interests.. they'll give people some say, sure, but when it goes a way they don't like, they shut it down... the only ones that really can know what is best for the child is the parents. This is of course assuming in this case, they are good parents, and they're not simply just trying to get funding from the public for some other reason... doubtful, but it definitely happens...

Because we don't know all the facts, we don't know the level of care he has received, if he has received the finest care possible, if they have dropped the ball someplace, if they had turned every stone, if maybe the same medical team that is saying it's too late to save him maybe didn't make other bumbling mistakes along the way that would make the parents reasonably question their judgement ... Frankly, we don't know anything, if even they understand all that has been said to them. Even still, I think other people getting involved with protests and such on social media, it's all bizarre for me... the only reason this is even worthwhile to petition because it is an institution who is making this decision and thus the political issue... who is dictating when to pull life support.

I disagree with this as well and this is one reason why if US were to have "universal" healthcare, I'd want the system to still remain private as it is now, but with much stronger regulations (if a completely free and transparent market is not politically/ethically feasible here)...

I'll give example of why that happened yesterday. I had to make an emergency trip out of town to see my grandfather in the nursing home because he went off the rails after they adjusted his medication. This will be the 6th time they'd jacked with his medications and it causing his schizophrenia to return in full force... so he was calling my grandmother and other family members saying they were attempting to kill him and asking them to call police. He asked my grandmother if she had asked them to order the hit... hence me going out, because I'm the only one he has never been suspicious of. (Probably because I'm the baby of the family)

Anyway, why does that keep happening? Why do they keep changing his medications when all it does is lead to episodes (he has 0 issues otherwise and is completely normal). Because the doctors who are examining him are not private physicians. They are on call by the nursing home and work for the state. They work for Medicare... and Medicare is the one who wants them to jack with his meds because it'll reduce their costs and the doctors work for Medicare. His labs are normal. He gets a bit sleepy every now and then after medication time, but other than that, no side effects. He leads a completely normal life.

He has been on these medications for 15-20 years. There is absolutely no reason to change them, as he is 100% better when off them. Symptom free. No person would even know he has a psych disorder... so for them to keep jacking with his meds is not only inhumane (can you imagine being terrified someone is going to hurt you?), but it puts the family through significant stress as well. It also adds a financial burden because he is out of town as the only nursing home we could find to take him in (because he's a psych patient) is in Navasota... and we won't move him anyway because he likes it there, he trusts the staff and is very comfortable in that location.

So I realized, I would never want the state or doctors having final say on my care. To be quite frank here, even the most educated human beings on planet can be absolute bumbling morons when it comes to common sense. Being book smart, highly educated, well-researched does not make doctors immune from having terrible judgement and it absolutely doesn't make them incapable of bias. In fact, those people are much more likely to assume their own superiority, which would inflame issues with bias and prejudice in some cases. These sorts of errors and conflicts of interest happen everyday, even in the private industry. The irony, it was *gasp* the internet */gasp* that led my situation getting figured out and resolving my own medical issues... no help from doctors whatsoever who ignored my concerns at every turn, and in one case made me so sick, I couldn't be trusted to drive, much less run a stove for more than a year because I would turn the stove top on, black out and then be in the other room and have forgotten I'd even gotten up to start cooking myself a meal...

TDLR: They should let the child go to Italy. Intelligence isn't always everything. The parents are not going to be able to rest until they've literally tried everything they can... even if it's .00001% chance, a good parent knows when it is time. Moreover, if they're religious and it's a religious hospital taking them in, if it does come to it the child is taken off life support, then at least they will be in a very supportive community who won't make them feel patronized and ridiculous. But you, me, TiBB, Theresa May, Donald Trump have no business interfering in their decision of what's best for their child...

But if he were brain dead, then yes, that would be a completely different story... read about Jahi McMath (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahi_McMath_case). That happened very recently and her parents still have her on life support... if you are curious to see that extreme.

[Amy Jade]

Innocent staff at Alder Hey threatened and harrased by moronic 'Alfie's Army' protestors again this morning.

My sympathy for the family is almost rock bottom, poor little boy but his father especially is a scumbag.

[jaxie]

Maru, what has been said in court is that the child is more or less brain dead. They have said that tests show most brain function is gone, he can't see, hear, respond, eat, drink etc. He is in a semi vegitative state. You can't regenerate the brain. In this case and the case of Charlie Gard recently, this seems more a case of the parents being unable to accept that news. The hospital in Rome accept that all they can likely do is end of life care. The Court ruled it would not be fair to move him. There is no treatment or miracle cure. Of course if there were any hope of his receiving treatment that might help most people would support him getting it but where there is no treatment why move him and risk making him uncomfortable.

The difference between our medical system and the US is massive and our health care does not revolve around cash and greedy insurance companies and drug companies. Our healthcare professionals will likely never be paid enough for what they do and the NHS is viewed extreme affection in this country. We are very proud of our world class, free health care for all and fiercely protective of it.

Of course humans can make mistakes but on the whole these people save many many lives and they are dedicated. They aren't going to tell you there is no hope for your child unless there is no hope. This isn't the opinion of one person. It's the opinion of many, including independent medical people brought in.

Parents don't always know what is best, they have their own emotions to deal with and it's hard to see that prolonging a life hooked to a machine that isn't really a life lived is not necessarily in the child's best interests. Nor are parents in this situation likely to be thinking rationally. And they've brought a mob which is intimidating staff and the parents of other very sick children.

[Underscore]

Innocent staff at Alder Hey threatened and harrased by moronic 'Alfie's Army' protestors again this morning.

My sympathy for the family is almost rock bottom, poor little boy but his father especially is a scumbag.

Well said.

[user104658]

He's in (what they used to call) a persistent vegetative state (now called unresponsive wakefulness) / in and out of coma and he will not recover. Its tragic, totally tragic, but if he did somehow wake up it would be a literal miracle... It simply won't happen.

In the meantime, the pain and distress they're causing to the families of other very sick children is abhorrent.

[arista]

"Anyway, why does that keep happening?"

Its not like USA
its because of our free health service,
and the Italian Pope has nothing to do with this.


today Live on TV
ITV GMBHD
the dad claimed its a miss diagnosis?

[Kizzy]

Calling the father of this very sick little boy names is abhorrent, walk a mile in his shoes.

[Babayaro.]

Total morons. Surely they could have protested in a different way.

[Denver]

Calling the father of this very sick little boy names is abhorrent, walk a mile in his shoes.

So you think it is acceptable for the thug to organise protests to target the hospital and staff?

Do you not care for the families who are unable to be at their child's bedside because of this thug?

I'm not being funny but all he cares about is causing trouble and getting in the papers.

[arista]

Total morons. Surely they could have protested in a different way.


Yes
it appears like gangs there

[Marsh.]

So you think it is acceptable for the thug to organise protests to target the hospital and staff?

Do you not care for the families who are unable to be at their child's bedside because of this thug?

I'm not being funny but all he cares about is causing trouble and getting in the papers.Thug?

How judgemental.

[Nicky91]

So you think it is acceptable for the thug to organise protests to target the hospital and staff?

Do you not care for the families who are unable to be at their child's bedside because of this thug?

I'm not being funny but all he cares about is causing trouble and getting in the papers.

like he's a bank robber, or murderer


:umm2:


i hoped you were trying to be funny :worry:

[Cal.]

Thug?

How judgemental.

He bloody stabbed someone! He is a thug!

[Denver]

Thug?

How judgemental.

So you think its right for him to round people up to bombard the hospital and attack people ?

[Nicky91]

So you think its right for him to round people up to bombard the hospital and attack people ?

the hospital is still standing, and not bombed like you say now :nono:

[Denver]

the hospital is still standing, and not bombed like you say now :nono:

Nowhere didi ever mention bombed

[Nicky91]

Nowhere didi ever mention bombed

''bombard the hospital''


:suspect:

[Kizzy]

So you think it is acceptable for the thug to organise protests to target the hospital and staff?

Do you not care for the families who are unable to be at their child's bedside because of this thug?

I'm not being funny but all he cares about is causing trouble and getting in the papers.

Don't preempt my thoughts please.

All I said was walk a mile, none of us know indefinitely what we would do in a similar position.

[Denver]

Don't preempt my thoughts please.

All I said was walk a mile, none of us know indefinitely what we would do in a similar position.

I'd be at the bedside 247 not organising mobs and selling stories

[Nicky91]

I'd be at the bedside 247 not organising mobs and selling stories

fair, i get your point now


you try to say he does this for attention while he should rather be at the bedside

[arista]

I'd be at the bedside 247 not organising mobs and selling stories



Yes the MOBS
are the PROBLEM

[Alf]

The only thing I don't understand is, if the little one is going to die anyway, then why not just let the parents take him to Italy, if that's what they want to do?

[Marsh.]

So you think its right for him to round people up to bombard the hospital and attack people ?Nice diversion. I didn't say that did I?

But there's understanding the state of mind he must be in and just callously calling him a thug.

And before I get the "well that makes it alright then?" No. I didn't say that either.

[AnnieK]

To say he doesnt care about Alfie is pretty awful.....he obviously does care or else why go through the court cases, getting help from the Vatican etc, he could have whipped up this frenzy without all that.

Yes, he has made Alder Hey a media circus that will have impacted other patients and that is totally wrong but for people to say he doesnt care about his son is, in my opinion, wrong

[Amy Jade]

Calling the father of this very sick little boy names is abhorrent, walk a mile in his shoes.

I am calling his actions exactly what they are. Scummy. He is at it again saying staff at Alder Hey are snotty. He wan't her revolting army to attack staff members. He is scum.

[Underscore]

I am calling his actions exactly what they are. Scummy. He is at it again saying staff at Alder Hey are snotty. He wan't her revolting army to attack staff members. He is scum.

He bloody stabbed someone! He is a thug!

So you think its right for him to round people up to bombard the hospital and attack people ?

I'd be at the bedside 247 not organising mobs and selling stories

:clap1:

[user104658]

The only thing I don't understand is, if the little one is going to die anyway, then why not just let the parents take him to Italy, if that's what they want to do?Because it sets a precedent and everyone would want to start not accepting prognosis / raking their family out of hospitals... Causing huge disruption to the hospitals themselves, and undue suffering to people at the end of their lives.

[Amy Jade]

Calling the father of this very sick little boy names is abhorrent, walk a mile in his shoes.
I actually have to say this as well. A lot of my family work in the NHS aswell as myself and my similar aged cousin both currently in education to work in health care too and you know what I find 'abhorrent'? the fact that staff who are already doing a job which for anyone would be highly emotional, looking after sick and dying children every ****ing day have to go to work in fear of being harrased by a group of absoloute morons. Walk a mile in their shoes Kizzy.

[user104658]

To be fair, I have sympathy for the child's family. They're clutching at anything they can and that's understandable in their situation, and I understand them not behaving rationally.

Everyone else playing into it, though... That's who I take issue with. The people who have absolutely nothing to do with it turning up at the hospital to attack staff and distress ill children and their families. There's no excuse there.

[hijaxers]

I didn't want to listen to this father on the news this morning , i was shocked by what he has done to 'stir' maximum trouble ! he looks like its about a money making exercise not about is son , its really shocking how hospital staff , other mothers and fathers with sick children have to deal with kind of animalistic behaviour - from people 'who care'.

[Kizzy]

I actually have to say this as well. A lot of my family work in the NHS aswell as myself and my similar aged cousin both currently in education to work in health care too and you know what I find 'abhorrent'? the fact that staff who are already doing a job which for anyone would be highly emotional, looking after sick and dying children every ****ing day have to go to work in fear of being harrased by a group of absoloute morons. Walk a mile in their shoes Kizzy.

Yes my family work within the NHS too, it has no bearing on how conflicted I feel in relation to this case.
Making rude comments about Alfies parents at this stressful time achieves nothing.

[Amy Jade]

I feel terrible for the family, it is a heartbreaking situation of course but the fathers actions have been disgusting.

Alfie has been there since December 2016, being looked after by countless staff and the father has gathered a mob to harrass the poor staff, some will have worked to help his child and all the idiots calling themselves an army are making it impossible for Alfie to go home. Which Nurse or Doctor would agree to looking after him at home after all the threats they have received?

[Amy Jade]

Yes my family work within the NHS too, it has no bearing on how conflicted I feel in relation to this case.
Making rude comments about Alfies parents at this stressful time achieves nothing.

Somebody who incites others to riot and harrass innocent staff members at a childrens hospital is scummy. I have seen nobody calling the mother anything just the father who has been the one doing said things.

Calling a spade a spade.

[AnnieK]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5657795/Alfie-Evans-mother-strokes-face-touching-video-judge-rejects-parents-appeal.html

Alfies Army asked to stand down

[kirklancaster]

Somebody who incites others to riot and harrass innocent staff members at a childrens hospital is scummy. I have seen nobody calling the mother anything just the father who has been the one doing said things.

Calling a spade a spade.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: All you have had to say on this is correct in my opinion A.J.

I do not think that I would survive - or want to - if one of my beloved kids or precious little grand kids was that poor tragic little boy and I was in the dad's position, but as much as I KNOW that I would try to clutch at ANY straw which offered even the slenderest sliver of hope, I also know that I would neither incite mindless morons to threaten the poor hospital staff in the way that they have nor condone their actions.

It is time the Government got really DRACONIAN with punishments for these anarchic imbecilic mobs - and that is for ALL of them - no matter what side of the political Spectrum they hail from and no matter how 'worthy' the cause may be which they are FEIGNING support for whilst in reality they are merely seeking opportunities to indulge in their violent and offensive anti-social behaviour.

I feel for the poor little child and his family, but I also feel for the ordinary, innocent, decent hospital staff who are having to suffer the intolerable harrassment which they are.

They are being 'scapegoated'.

[Maru]

I thought part of police's job was to institute blockades when there are major protests like this. i.e. clear doors to major facilities so that protesters aren't able to block the public/businesses from functioning... easy OT for the police officer, and the people are still able to practice their right to protest.

[user104658]

I thought part of police's job was to institute blockades when there are major protests like this. i.e. clear doors to major facilities so that protesters aren't able to block the public/businesses from functioning... easy OT for the police officer, and the people are still able to practice their right to protest.Police budgets have been cut so far that they're threadbare... They don't have the money to have enough police on the streets on a normal day, let alone a budget for overtime. If it was London there might be more of a police presence, but not in a North of England city like Liverpool...

[kirklancaster]

Police budgets have been cut so far that they're threadbare... They don't have the money to have enough police on the streets on a normal day, let alone a budget for overtime. If it was London there might be more of a police presence, but not in a North of England city like Liverpool...

What you say concerning budget cuts is true T.S. but it is not the whole story.

I watch dozens of documentaries such as 'Street Crime UK' - usually recorded and watched in the early hours - and one regularly recurring scenario which infuriates me, is one where up to 8 or more police officers and 4 or 5 Police vehicles spend hours dealing with one town centre drunk after another only for the offending idiots to be eventually let go or put in the cells for the night then let go in the morning.

Watch one episode and calculate the cost to the 'Public Purse' of such a waste of resources and 'Man Power'.

[jaxie]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/26/alfie-evans-parents-activists

I found this a very good opinion article on this subject and am linking for anyone else who'd like to read it.

[arista]

The 23month old Alfie has sadly Died

just reported on SkyNews

[AnnieK]

Just seen on FB he passed at 2.30am.
Heartbreaking for all his family.
RiP little man :sad:

[hijaxers]

Very sad news RIP Alfie.

[Ammi]

...you we’re so brave and you were so strong Alfie Evans...:lovedup:...

[Nicky91]

RIP Alfie


so sad, and even sadder that his dad was protesting while he could've spent time with him through his last moments


sorry to say this but i don't feel sad for that selfish attention seeking dad of his



which other parent chooses protesting over being with his sick child :rolleyes:

[Ammi]

...people focus their emotions in different ways, Nicky...’right’ or ‘wrong’ doesn’t come into something like this, I don’t think...we do what we do to focus the pain we feel...just very, very sad ..:sad:...

[kirklancaster]

Utterly tragic and upsetting news. RIP little Alfie.

I fear though that a bitter aftermath of accusation and recrimination will persist long after this poor unfortunate tot's death.

[Nicky91]

...people focus their emotions in different ways, Nicky...’right’ or ‘wrong’ doesn’t come into something like this, I don’t think...we do what we do to focus the pain we feel...just very, very sad ..:sad:...

yes i will, of course

:hug:

[Vanessa]

Poor little mite. I feel so sad today. Rip Alfie. You're with the angels now :bawling:

[Amy Jade]

Poor bab. He really wouldn't have made it to Italy the doctors were right. Desperately sad for his poor family x

[Nicky91]

Poor bab. He really wouldn't have made it to Italy the doctors were right. Desperately sad for his poor family x

:suspect:


i am crying for this poor child, and his mother :bawling: :bawling:



but not his father, who left his bedside to protest

[AnnieK]

Unfortunately, once they took him off life support this was the only outcome in this sad story. His family had the right intentions but sadly it all became focussed on the "Army" part of Alfies Army. Hopefully they managed to spend the time they wanted with him at the end

[Nicky91]

Unfortunately, once they took him off life support this was the only outcome in this sad story. His family had the right intentions but sadly it all became focussed on the "Army" part of Alfies Army. Hopefully they managed to spend the time they wanted with him at the end

i hope so too, otherwise it would be sad if he passed away alone

[Ninastar]

Kind of awful to say but I’m relieved. This poor kid was suffering, despite what the family thought. I’m just glad he is at peace

[Maru]

I think it's disappointing that they would not let them properly grieve for their own child... RIP little Alfie...