Should there be an amnesty for grown ups with no passports who were kids 30 yrs ago.

[Beso]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/15/no-10-refuses-caribbean-request-to-discuss-children-of-windrush

[smudgie]

It shouldn't even be up for debate.
They came over as kids, parents worked here and contributed, they have spent all their adult lives here, as well as their childhoods.
Common sense should prevail.

[Kizzy]

Of course they should, but this is another part of operation undesirable. I must be otherwise as smudge says common sense would prevail.

[Cherie]

It shouldn't even be up for debate.
They came over as kids, parents worked here and contributed, they have spent all their adult lives here, as well as their childhoods.
Common sense should prevail.

.

[Kizzy]

Brilliant, so legally she can't do what she wanted as per, so announces a u turn :joker:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-windrush-generation-deportation-immigration-uk-citizenship-uturn-home-office-latest-a8306841.html

[Brillopad]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/15/no-10-refuses-caribbean-request-to-discuss-children-of-windrush

I think it depends what they have done with their lives. If they have worked hard and mostly paid their way and have not been in any serious trouble they should stay.

[Tom4784]

Of course, it's illogical and cruel to send people back to a country they don't know when they've lived in the UK for most of their lives but it's what I've come to expect from the Tories.

[AnnieK]

Yes. Nothing more to add really.

[Kizzy]

y_Abf13Tx90

[Beso]

Very pleased to see we are all on the same page.

[AnnieK]

Very pleased to see we are all on the same page.

I feel like there should be a fanfare or something. Surely this is SD first

[jaxie]

This is a terrible injustice to the people involved. It shows up how impractical and broken our immigration system is. It simply does not make sense, it is weighted against genuine people with a genuine reason to be here.

[bots]

Just to play devils advocate :devil:

While i think its fine for people who came here legally when immigration checks were less thorough to stay, there could be a number that came here outside the system, and I don't think time should affect their being rightfully sent home.

[jaxie]

Just to play devils advocate :devil:

While i think its fine for people who came here legally when immigration checks were less thorough to stay, there could be a number that came here outside the system, and I don't think time should affect their being rightfully sent home.

I think if you've lived and worked somewhere for 50 odd years you should be entitled to stay. There should definitely be a time cut off point when it's simply a done deal.

[user104658]

My wife's grandfather had to jump through a lot of hoops to get his British passport in his 60's (he is Irish) even though he moved here at about 20. But he had no documentation for Ireland either, and there was no record of his birth anywhere. A strange situation. They did eventually give him official British citizenship / a passport, though.

And of course, it was just because he wanted to be able to go abroad. No one was trying to deport him.

[Oliver_W]

I hope the Human Rights legislation actually does something right for once to help these people.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Rules are rules

[user104658]

Rules are rules

We live in a society.

[Crimson Dynamo]

We live in a society.

Thank you for your support

[Mystic Mock]

Of course, it's illogical and cruel to send people back to a country they don't know when they've lived in the UK for most of their lives but it's what I've come to expect from the Tories.

This.

[armand.kay]

Rules are rules

And sometimes rules don't work for society so they need to be looked at and amended if needs be

[Oliver_W]

Rules are rules

Would you say that in (insert any islamic country here) where the rules make life **** for lgbt people and women?

[Sticks]

If these people do not have the documentation to prove right of residency then they should be removed forthwith, irrespective of how long they have been here. It is up to the individual to prove they have the right to stay.

It's the law.

[user104658]

If these people do not have the documentation to prove right of residency then they should be removed forthwith, irrespective of how long they have been here. It is up to the individual to prove they have the right to stay.

It's the law.Beep bop boop computer sez no.

[waterhog]

It shouldn't even be up for debate.
They came over as kids, parents worked here and contributed, they have spent all their adult lives here, as well as their childhoods.
Common sense should prevail.

said it so well and perfectly. no more to say. close debate !

[Kizzy]

Don't think it was deliberate?... Think again.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer

[Brillopad]

Don't think it was deliberate?... Think again.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer

The Guardian clickbait - no thanks!

[hijaxers]

It shouldn't even be up for debate.
They came over as kids, parents worked here and contributed, they have spent all their adult lives here, as well as their childhoods.
Common sense should prevail.

Absolutely this.

[Kizzy]

The Guardian clickbait - no thanks!

There you go, the torygraph...Better?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-migrants-records-2010-leaving/

[arista]

There you go, the torygraph...Better?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-migrants-records-2010-leaving/

Yes but it was infact 2009
New Labour instructed the home office
to destroy the landing cards
took a year to do it.

We found out Live on PMQs

[Kizzy]

And we know this how? It wasn't labour policy to create a the 'hostile environment' policy though was it?

The tories implemented this knowing these people may have no other identifying papers and that with their immigration plans this for me was a very distinct ploy to avoid paying these people who have worked all their lives a pension.

[arista]

And we know this how? It wasn't labour policy to create a the 'hostile environment' policy though was it?

The tories implemented this knowing these people may have no other identifying papers and that with their immigration plans this for me was a very distinct ploy to avoid paying these people who have worked all their lives a pension.


Correct
it was New Labour 2009
and Conservatives -LibDems
after summer 2010

[Kizzy]

Where is the evidence?... We only have mays word this was actioned in 2009.

[arista]

Where is the evidence?... We only have mays word this was actioned in 2009.


Home office records
of course

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43806710

[Kizzy]

They had been stored in a basement for decades but Downing Street says the UK Border Agency approved a business case in June 2009 to dispose of paper records, including the cards.

The decision to destroy the cards themselves was taken in October 2010, after the coalition came to power. Mrs May was not involved in the decision, which was taken at official level, said No 10.

My guess is she's lying... where is this 'case' from 2009?

[Kizzy]

Lies, lies and damned lies!!

Downing Street said new information was coming to light about the handling of the landing cards all the time, which was why there was a discrepancy between information given out on Tuesday and Wednesday.

But a Labour Party spokesman said the government's story was "shifting by the hour".

"First Downing Street claimed the decision to destroy the Windrush-era landing cards was made by the Home Office in 2010 for data protection reasons. Then the Home Office passed the buck to a 2010 decision by the UK Border Agency.

"At PMQs, the prime minister tried to shift the blame onto the last Labour government but was undermined by her own spokesperson minutes later, who then stated it was an operational decision, which Labour ministers would not have been aware of. Her spokesperson couldn't even say when the cards were destroyed."

Jacqui Smith, who was Labour home secretary until replaced by Alan Johnson in June 2009, told the BBC that it was "not a policy decision she had made". Mr Johnson also said he "had absolutely no recollection at all of being involved" in the landing card decision.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43806710

[Kizzy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbEANbkX0AE_gbD.png

[hijaxers]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/15/no-10-refuses-caribbean-request-to-discuss-children-of-windrush

I actually have a few friends who are worried as their families came at that time and none of them have ever applied for passports so are they right to be worried ? what a complete cock up this is.

[hijaxers]

Don't laugh at my edit - talk about dumb error !

[Kizzy]

Cue operation cover up...

5pVI0ocblrA

[arista]

This started way back in 2006 with New Labour
in Power.
A Barbados black lady phoned into LBC Live Radio Andrew Castle show
Who said as she had a Barbados Passport arriving in the UK in 1975.
She confirmed on a return Holiday in 2006
the Passport Control in the UK , warned her not to travel again
as she would be sent back.




It appears any they did not have a UK passport
were getting trouble during New Labour Term


Sure Kizzy
The Conservative - LibDems of 2010
made it worse.

But its Very important the Whole Truth is out
the New Labour term started this Racist Action.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/New_Labour_new_Britain_logo.png/220px-New_Labour_new_Britain_logo.png
https://middlevision.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/immigration-mug-labour.jpg

[Kizzy]

What is important is to keep the discussion in context, the 'hostile environment' as referred to by Labour was specifically aimed at criminals as shown here.

This strategy sets out how we will continue our efforts
to cut crime and make the UK a hostile environment
for those that seek to break our laws or abuse our
hospitality. It is divided into four mutually reinforcing
objectives that together form the basis of our renewed
approach to tackling criminal activity.
Our objectives:
Deter - Strengthening UK resilience against
immigration and cross border crime;
Disrupt - Breaking up criminal activities and
organised criminal groups;
Detect - Identifying and locating those
responsible for criminal activity and the smuggling
of illicit goods;

Nowhere are innocent people under any threat.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100303205641/http:/www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/managingourborders/crime-strategy/protecting-border.pdf?view=Binary

[waterhog]

It shouldn't even be up for debate.
They came over as kids, parents worked here and contributed, they have spent all their adult lives here, as well as their childhoods.
Common sense should prevail.





say it again smudgie - everything that matters is in your post. case closed. nothing more to be said.

common sense must prevail.

[Northern Monkey]

Yeah of course we should let them stay(aslong as they’re legal obvs).They’ve lived and worked and paid tax here for a long time.

[arista]

"Nowhere are innocent people under any threat."

Of course Kizzy
But New Labour
lost power due to Gordon Brown being PM.

But that Black Lady back in 2006
Framed her letter,
so to be Fair this all started with New Labour
then got far worse under Conservative - LibDems.
And carried on up to now,


Loads of innocents (not illegals)
to be solved and given proper UK documents.

[Kizzy]

"Nowhere are innocent people under any threat."

Of course Kizzy
But New Labour
lost power due to Gordon Brown being PM.

But that Black Lady back in 2006
Framed her letter,
so to be Fair this all started with New Labour
then got far worse under Conservative - LibDems.
And carried on up to now,


Loads of innocents (not illegals)
to be solved and given proper UK documents.

Nope that was an over zealous UKBA official, nothing to do with labour or their policies.

[arista]

Nope that was an over zealous UKBA official, nothing to do with labour or their policies.

But that Black Lady
talking about 2006 year.
Means it was New Labour in power
Blair infact.

Everything to do with who was in Power.

She carried on having trouble
it was not just one official.

[arista]

[People from the Windrush generation and
their children living in Britain will have citizenship fees waived, Home Secretary Amber Rudd has announced.]

https://news.sky.com/story/citizenship-fees-waived-for-windrush-generation-11344186

[Kizzy]

[People from the Windrush generation and
their children living in Britain will have citizenship fees waived, Home Secretary Amber Rudd has announced.]

https://news.sky.com/story/citizenship-fees-waived-for-windrush-generation-11344186

That is the very LEAST she could do.

[Kizzy]

But that Black Lady
talking about 2006 year.
Means it was New Labour in power
Blair infact.

Everything to do with who was in Power.

She carried on having trouble
it was not just one official.

Well with no link it's hard to get a gauge of the situation to be fair.

[lime]

Yeah of course we should let them stay(aslong as they’re legal obvs).They’ve lived and worked and paid tax here for a long time.


WOW ...I'm sure you are not a racist....but just have a look at what you just posted..."we should let them stay"...They are British...where must they go?

[arista]

Well with no link it's hard to get a gauge of the situation to be fair.


Sorry about that Kizzy.

[Kizzy]

Gwan Dave!!! :D

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-lammy-windrush-mp-racist-abuse-deport-immigration-caribbean-a8318311.html

[Northern Monkey]

WOW ...I'm sure you are not a racist....but just have a look at what you just posted..."we should let them stay"...They are British...where must they go?

These are the Windrush generation.This is why i said they should stay or in other words to answer the thread title directly there should be an amnesty.
I know they’re British because we(Britain) invited them over to stay and to be British citizens as kids.
It’s a mess and should never have happened.I think the problem the government are probably facing now after their cockup is locating these people and proving that everyone claiming to be from this generation are really who they say they are after they(the government) destroyed all the landing cards.They’ve created an admin nightmare for themselves which doesn’t look good as they now have to cross examine all these people to make sure they’re legit.Which is stressful for them obviously after they’ve contributed to the country for so many years.

[Sticks]

But I thought the country voted to kick out all immigrants in the referendum on immigration on 23 June 2016, (I think there was a side show about EU membership at the time) Remember that poster that Nigel Farage unveiled of lines of immigrants coming across to take our jobs and our benefits (No wait that was a picture of Syrian refugees that Farage used out of context )

The problem has been that UKIP got both Conservative and Labour running scared, the Conservative party more so, hence the hostile climate for all immigrants.

What is a poor immigration department to do, it is only following the instructions of their elected lords and masters who are aping UKIP. No wonder they thought their masters would be pleased if they could deport as many non whites as possible to keep Mr Farage and his gang happy.

Incidentally Alan Sked, the founder of UKIP at an earlier election turned against his creation because Farage had turned it into a nasty racist party.

Now as I pointed out earlier, the law has been for now that if these people from the Windrush generation can not prove their right to stay, they have to leave. For each one kicked out, I wonder how many high fives there were that officials were showing how much they were working to please good old Nigel, whose supporters the Conservative party have been trying to woo...

[Denver]

Technically you can't be an immigrant if you are from the common wealth

[Sticks]

Technically you can't be an immigran if you ate from the common wealth

For some that nuance is too subtle to comprehend in their eagerness to please our elected lords and masters and Farage.

[Northern Monkey]

But I thought the country voted to kick out all immigrants in the referendum on immigration on 23 June 2016, (I think there was a side show about EU membership at the time) Remember that poster that Nigel Farage unveiled of lines of immigrants coming across to take our jobs and our benefits (No wait that was a picture of Syrian refugees that Farage used out of context )

The problem has been that UKIP got both Conservative and Labour running scared, the Conservative party more so, hence the hostile climate for all immigrants.

What is a poor immigration department to do, it is only following the instructions of their elected lords and masters who are aping UKIP. No wonder they thought their masters would be pleased if they could deport as many non whites as possible to keep Mr Farage and his gang happy.

Incidentally Alan Sked, the founder of UKIP at an earlier election turned against his creation because Farage had turned it into a nasty racist party.

Now as I pointed out earlier, the law has been for now that if these people from the Windrush generation can not prove their right to stay, they have to leave. For each one kicked out, I wonder how many high fives there were that officials were showing how much they were working to please good old Nigel, whose supporters the Conservative party have been trying to woo...

This post is mainly just some Guardian-esque propaganda.The country mainly voted on the 23rd of June to get out from under the veil of our UNELECTED lords and masters in the EU and to get back control of our borders.Not to “kick out all the immigrants”.No doubt a small minority of dumbies thought that but the majority of British people don’t want that and aren’t racist.

UKIP filled a gap that no other party had the testicular fortitude to address.Which was the legitimate concerns that immigration was too high and was getting higher after Blair opened the floodgates.That doesn’t mean “kick out all immigrants” it means open a debate on the numbers coming in.

“Hostile environment for all immigrants” is a misquote.It was for illegal immigrants which is obviously what we should have to deter more.

You talk about “non whites” which doesn’t have much to do with the Brexit vote as the majority of EU citizens who are eligible for freedom of movement are white.Again the majority of Brits aren’t racist.Concern for immigration numbers doesn’t equate racism.

[arista]

2 young black women
were blocked in 2006


On Ch4HDnews tonight

Thats when Blair was in Power

[arista]

For Kizzy to watch
if she has time .
A reporter report is within the the live debate from yesterday
2 young Black Women
blocked in 2006 (New Labour in Power : The PM was T. Blair)
Its the report that Starts at 7mins two young Black daughters
Blocked in 2006



https://www.channel4.com/news/windrush-generation-the-scandal-that-shook-britain-explained-and-debated-in-a-channel-4-news-special
Filmed over the road from the Filmed over the London Home Office



The TV version was around 45mins
this is the Full Version 70mins , we were told to carry on watching online.

[Kizzy]

Yes I've seen that thank you, it is of course important to note that the changes in legal aid support has removed the help and advice that people were able to access then to stop any failures with relation to this bureaucratic minefield.

Everything is driven to effectively 'kettling' people out of the country, no right to appeal until AFTER you've been removed, no legal representation, huge charges for various 'services' to prove residency status, the huge amount of paperwork and documentary proof needed to fulfill the residency criteria.

[GiRTh]

AfKXUwwZNXc

:facepalm:

[user104658]

AfKXUwwZNXc

:facepalm:

Well ****, that turned into a TiBB debate at the end there :think:

[bots]

Its interesting in that video that the newsreader is creating his own toxic environment during the interview. "Are you saying that because i'm asian" is not an appropriate comment by a newsreader. It's putting the guest on the defensive and accusing him of something that was clearly not the guests intention.