Jon Venables 5th new ID

[Kazanne]

Do you agree yay or nay,
One of James Bulgers killers is probably going to get a 5th new identity which to date will cost us 5 million pounds, James dad wants his identity revealed, his mom doesn't,imo he should NOT get one ,he should NOT be released ever again, he is a danger to society,but I can see that Denise does not want innocent people targeted,but given he himself has given his true identity can he be trusted with a new one? If the powers that be want to keep him safe,keep him where he is and throw away the key.

[Jordan.]

Completely WRONG, how after 5 times could anyone still think he is capable of being rehabilitated?

[thesheriff443]

It's the justic system I'm afraid.

[bots]

it is beyond comprehension that they are still pandering to this vile creatures requests. He shouldn't be allowed to roam free in our society.

[Niamh.]

what a joke

[kirklancaster]

As with the Parole Board, the faceless bureaucrats who make these insane and OFFENSIVE decisions should be publicly named.

SOMEONE is personally ensuring that this vilest of murderers is protected because this decision has NOTHING to do with 'Justice' or the 'System' and if it HAD, then famous 'Celebrity' paedophiles such as Rolf Harris would be given plastic surgery and new identities upon release, but THEY are NOT, and as depraved as their crimes undoubtedly are, THEY have not also committed the sickeningly inhuman torture and slaughter of a tiny toddler as this bastard Venables has.

Even those found guilty of the most minor (for want of a more suitable word) sexual crimes against children have their identities revealed and are placed upon the 'Sexual Offenders Register' and yet this detestable smirking killer paedophile is shielded.

There is also, a HUGE potential tragedy waiting to manifest itself with any decision to hide Venables identity once again and it is a surprise that it has not already happened:

What happens when some INNOCENT man somewhere becomes the target of a 'Whispering' campaign where someone WRONGLY suspects that he is Venables?

Shall we see some such innocent murdered, beaten or burnt to death by one or two vigilantes ALL because of some 'Bleeding-Heart's' desire to keep Venables safe?

The sooner Venables is dead the better - in my opinion.

[user104658]

At this point, Venables shouldn't be allowed out unsupervised at all. If he has served all of his various criminal sentences, he should be in a secure psychiatric unit, because at this point (having been in and out so many times and clearly NOT able to stop offending) he is quite clearly unstable and a danger to others. He is criminally insane and can't control his impulses... he doesn't necesarily need to be in a prison if his sentences are served, but he clearly does need to be monitored 24/7.

[Beso]

I was reading this earlier...

The father makes a good point about venebles re offending and i tend to agree that because he has, he should now be stripped of all anonimity.

[Barry.]

Not fair, 5 chances?

[Mystic Mock]

Completely WRONG, how after 5 times could anyone still think he is capable of being rehabilitated?

Exactly this, he isn't a 10 year old anymore so the law should stop treating him like he is still that 10 year old all those years ago.

[arista]

Yes one caller on Ch5HD Live
named he was in a Welsh prison.


His call was Cut
due to legal problems of getting anyone to find him etc

[Vanessa]

They're wasting their time. He will never change.

[The Slim Reaper]

We have a justice system that is rightly geared towards rehabilitation and reintegration rather than the death penalty or just locking people away until they die.

Because of the high profile and abhorrent nature of the initial offence, emotions are always understandably high, but yes, it is actually the correct course of action.

If he is released with his true identity, then he wouldn't last 24 hours without being killed. and a society that looks away while vigilante or mob justice is dished out (regardless of whether he deserves it or not), is not healthy society.

[Kazanne]

We have a justice system that is rightly geared towards rehabilitation and reintegration rather than the death penalty or just locking people away until they die.

Because of the high profile and abhorrent nature of the initial offence, emotions are always understandably high, but yes, it is actually the correct course of action.

If he is released with his true identity, then he wouldn't last 24 hours without being killed. and a society that looks away while vigilante or mob justice is dished out (regardless of whether he deserves it or not), is not healthy society.

So you would see him released and put our children in danger,I think most of us know what a farce the judicial system is, this vermin has been given 5 chances,yes 5,costing us millions,he has admitted to having certain 'urges'so much so he brought a manual that teaches how to rape young children !!!so he hasn't been rehabilitated and I doubt ever will be,and what happens should he get drunk again one night and blows his latest cover? Shame really the death penalty is still not here,it could have saved a whole lot of money and heartache.

[The Slim Reaper]

So you would see him released and put our children in danger,I think most of us know what a farce the judicial system is, this vermin has been given 5 chances,yes 5,costing us millions,he has admitted to having certain 'urges'so much so he brought a manual that teaches how to rape young children !!!so he hasn't been rehabilitated and I doubt ever will be,and what happens should he get drunk again one night and blows his latest cover? Shame really the death penalty is still not here,it could have saved a whole lot of money and heartache.

It's not a case of what I would or wouldn't see happen. If he is due to be released, then yes, our society has a responsibility to not send him to be murdered by other citizens.

I get what you're saying, I genuinely do, but I'd rather have our justice system that offers the chances for rehabilitation, than a justice system that murders it's own citizens.

Cost is also not the issue; he was handed a sentence that he has now fulfilled, so in the eyes of the law he has served his punishment. We can argue the merits of the amount of time he was/should be imprisoned for, but tht again, is a side issue.

[LaLaLand]

Absolute joke, he should be locked up for good. He's had chance upon chance and proved he's still a threat.

What will it take? Him to kill/abuse another child before he's finally put away? Disgusting.

[Brillopad]

We have a justice system that is rightly geared towards rehabilitation and reintegration rather than the death penalty or just locking people away until they die.

Because of the high profile and abhorrent nature of the initial offence, emotions are always understandably high, but yes, it is actually the correct course of action.

If he is released with his true identity, then he wouldn't last 24 hours without being killed. and a society that looks away while vigilante or mob justice is dished out (regardless of whether he deserves it or not), is not healthy society.

It’s exactly that kind of Woolley-headed thinking that helps create the high crime rates and increasing number of innocent victims. If people know they are in for a relative easy time if caught they are more likely to take the risk of offending. That’s not my idea of a healthy society!

[Beso]

If a ten year old child cant be rehabilitated after 10 odd years if rehabilitation then its time to send him to broadmoor as someone else said..

[Beso]

It’s exactly that kind of Woolley-headed thinking that helps create the high crime rates and increasing number of innocent victims. If people know they are in for a relative easy time if caught they are more likely to take the risk of offending. That’s not my idea of a healthy society!

Ive always said that prison in the uk is a better way if life than the life some illigal immigrants have desperatly had to escape from...therefore, committing crime once here, has hardly any downside!

[The Slim Reaper]

It’s exactly that kind of Woolley-headed thinking that helps create the high crime rates and increasing number of innocent victims. If people know they are in for a relative easy time if caught they are more likely to take the risk of offending. That’s not my idea of a healthy society!

That's just facile; people will commit crimes regardless of the penalties. You can either choose to accept that fact or not, but it doesn't change anything because you act tough on the internet.

[Beso]

That's just facile; people will commit crimes regardless of the penalties. You can either choose to accept that fact or not, but it doesn't change anything because you act tough on the internet.

I doubt a bank robber in the uk would go robbing if the punishment was death...but then again the hatton mob basically did..

The punishments need to be more severe, **** human rights...the criminals dont care about them.

[The Slim Reaper]

I doubt a bank robber in the uk would go robbing if the punishment was death...but then again the hatton mob basically did..

The punishments need to be more severe, **** human rights...the criminals dont care about them.

Think of the worst places to be in prison in the world, now realise those places are full of criminals who've committed serious crimes.

Are we now holding up the morality of criminals to dictate what our society should be like? The fact that we do (or should) care about human rights is what separates most of us from the criminals.

[Brillopad]

That's just facile; people will commit crimes regardless of the penalties. You can either choose to accept that fact or not, but it doesn't change anything because you act tough on the internet.

Believing we should prioritise the rights of future victims, including children, over those of the monsters that commit such crimes has nothing to do with ‘acting tough on the internet’.

Too much focus and concern is spent worrying about the rights of the perpetrators and not enough on the victims - and is not representative of a ‘caring society’. Victims first!!!

[jaxie]

This person is no longer a child and I think the first time he reoffended he should have lost his right to be anonymous. People have a right to know who their children are living next door to, particularly if he commited torture, sexual assault and murder at ten years old.

The other one hasn't reoffended and can keep his anonymity.

[Beso]

Think of the worst places to be in prison in the world, now realise those places are full of criminals who've committed serious crimes.

Are we now holding up the morality of criminals to dictate what our society should be like? The fact that we do (or should) care about human rights is what separates most of us from the criminals.

Its about time more thought was given to the victims human rights instead of focusing on the criminals...im all for human rights for people who deserve it..but the minute you disrespect anothers for your own gain or pleasure then why should the world suddenly revolve around you?

[The Slim Reaper]

Believing we should prioritise the rights of future victims, including children, over those of the monsters that commit such crimes has nothing to do with ‘acting tough on the internet’.

Too much focus and concern is spent worrying about the rights of the perpetrators and not enough on the victims - and is not representative of a ‘caring society’. Victims first!!!

I'm pretty sure he is not going to be just sent out to live next to a playground and forgotten about. It's not even about about his rights - he has fulfilled his debt to society as deemed fit by the courts. That's not my punishment (which would have been harsher), or your punishment, or even the punishment of his victim, but by the law.

We either have a rule of law or we don't, but when you talk about "future victims", then we're heading into thought crime territory.

I genuinely have no idea what the best thing to do is, however, if he is being released he shouldn't be released to be murdered.

[The Slim Reaper]

Its about time more thought was given to the victims human rights instead of focusing on the criminals...im all for human rights for people who deserve it..but the minute you disrespect anothers for your own gain or pleasure then why should the world suddenly revolve around you?

Hypothetical for you; we release him with his true identity, and within 5 hours he's murdered by Dave Smith (apologies if anyone on the forum is called Dave Smith). What happens to Dave Smith?

[Beso]

Hypothetical for you; we release him with his true identity, and within 5 hours he's murdered by Dave Smith (apologies if anyone on the forum is called Dave Smith). What happens to Dave Smith?

Nothing, it wouldn't have happened cause he wouldn't have been released due to loss of his human rights.

[The Slim Reaper]

Nothing, it wouldn't have happened cause he wouldn't have been released due to loss of his human rights.

So which crime is he being locked away for the entirety of his life for committing?

[Beso]

So which crime is he being locked away for the entirety of his life for committing?

Anything that would require a new ID if they were to be released.

[The Slim Reaper]

Anything that would require a new ID if they were to be released.

Again, that's just facile and you must know how easily anyone could pick apart that as an argument?

[kirklancaster]

http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/editor/separator.gifIts about time more thought was given to the victims human rights instead of focusing on the criminals...im all for human rights for people who deserve it..but the minute you disrespect anothers for your own gain or pleasure then why should the world suddenly revolve around you?

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[jaxie]

That's just facile; people will commit crimes regardless of the penalties. You can either choose to accept that fact or not, but it doesn't change anything because you act tough on the internet.

I did read somewhere that within five years of abolishing hanging in the UK the amount of murders doubled.

[Beso]

Again, that's just facile and you must know how easily anyone could pick apart that as an argument?

There is no complexity of the issue as far as im concerned..

[Kazanne]

Hypothetical for you; we release him with his true identity, and within 5 hours he's murdered by Dave Smith (apologies if anyone on the forum is called Dave Smith). What happens to Dave Smith?

He gets a medal and hero worshipped, he may do time and be prepared for it,he will not be hated that's for sure.

[Withano]

I’ve always been a fan of the UK justice system... Imagine the sort of crimes Venables (or any other psycho) would commit if they knew they’re about to receive a death penalty anyway.

Why are there so many mass-shootings in America? Imo, because, you murder one guy -you’re in jail for life, you murder ten guys, and they’ll give you ten life sentences. Its dumb, and the criminals know this. You kill one guy in America, you might as well kill another 50, and its terrifying that this is logical.

Venables has served his punishment. Maybe I’m being thick, but isnt changing his identity just giving him a new name and passport? That seems best for everybody, considering that Kaz has basically just glorified a future potential murderer :umm2:

Edit: surely he’s not allowed a passport. Is this just about him being called Billy instead of Jon?

[Black Dagger]

Just put him down like the dog he is at this point.

[LaLaLand]

I’ve always been a fan of the UK justice system... Imagine the sort of crimes Venables (or any other psycho) would commit if they knew they’re about to receive a death penalty anyway.

Why are there so many mass-shootings in America? Imo, because, you murder one guy -you’re in jail for life, you murder ten guys, and they’ll give you ten life sentences. Its dumb, and the criminals know this. You kill one guy in America, you might as well kill another 50, and its terrifying that this is logical.

Venables has served his punishment. Maybe I’m being thick, but isnt changing his identity just giving him a new name and passport? That seems best for everybody, considering that Kaz has basically just glorified a future potential murderer :umm2:

Edit: surely he’s not allowed a passport. Is this just about him being called Billy instead of Jon?

Even the children he was planning to groom/abuse using his (as the police called it) "Paedo Handbook/Manual" when he was caught this last time?

[Kazanne]

Even the children he was planning to groom/abuse using his (as the police called it) "Paedo Handbook/Manual" when he was caught this last time?

Agreed Jonni,some people seem to have no thought for the victims of this vile scumbag.but gladly it is only a few,:wavey:

[Jordan.]

Venables has served his punishment. Maybe I’m being thick, but isnt changing his identity just giving him a new name and passport? That seems best for everybody

I dunno I think quite a lot of people would appreciate the right to know if they were interacting with a child murdering peadophile, sadly his rights seem to be more important than that of the general publics.

[kirklancaster]

I’ve always been a fan of the UK justice system... Imagine the sort of crimes Venables (or any other psycho) would commit if they knew they’re about to receive a death penalty anyway.

WHAT???? There can be NO ********** crime IMAGINED which TRANSCENDS the DEMONIC, BARBARIC, INHUMAN ********** SLAUGHTER of little Jamie Bulger.

Why are there so many mass-shootings in America? Imo, because, you murder one guy -you’re in jail for life, you murder ten guys, and they’ll give you ten life sentences. Its dumb, and the criminals know this. You kill one guy in America, you might as well kill another 50, and its terrifying that this is logical.

The Death Penalty cannot PREVENT a mass-shooting or multiple-homicide from being committed, no more than it can prevent the slaughter of one solitary innocent toddler, but WHAT it CAN do, is GUARANTEE that the sicko ********** EVIL bastards who DO carry out any of the above ONCE, will NEVER get the chance to REPEAT their evil because (with apologies to Monty Python's Mr Praline)

"He'll have passed on! This scum will be no more! He will have ceased to be! 'Expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'He'll be a stiff! Bereft of life"

And the MORE of them the BETTER.

"Venables has served his punishment. Maybe I’m being thick, but isnt changing his identity just giving him a new name and passport? That seems best for everybody, considering that Kaz has basically just glorified a future potential murderer ":umm2:

Venables PART-served an offensively LENIENT punishment which followed an EARLIER offensively LENIENT punishment.

Giving him a 'New Identity' is self-explanatory - EVERYTHING, from his BIRTH CERTIFICATE through his NATIONAL INSURANCE NUMBER to his NAME, is FORGED by the STATE to PROTECT him.

You know - that SAME State which FAILED to protect little Jamie.

As for Kaz 'basically' glorifying any IMAGINED 'potential murderer, that is FAR more rational and understandable - in my opinion - than anyone who appears to lessen the gravity of the HORRIFIC crimes which this ACTUAL murdering paedophile ACTUALLY committed.

Edit: surely he’s not allowed a passport. Is this just about him being called Billy instead of Jon?

Only my opinion of course.

[kirklancaster]

Just put him down like the dog he is at this point.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: (SEE - we DO agree sometimes)

[Withano]

Even the children he was planning to groom/abuse using his (as the police called it) "Paedo Handbook/Manual" when he was caught this last time?

Not to sound like a controversist... but especially those children?

[Withano]

Only my opinion of course.

Your random capitals honestly give me migraines, I cant even attempt to read that right now

[Beso]

Your random capitals honestly give me migraines, I cant even attempt to read that right now

You should, its one of his better ones.

[Withano]

I dunno I think quite a lot of people would appreciate the right to know if they were interacting with a child murdering peadophile, sadly his rights seem to be more important than that of the general publics.

Do you currently believe you have the right to know the previous crimes that everybody has committed upon meeting them?
Do you believe you should have this right?
How would you enforce that?
I feel like this is moving a goal post out of hate, which I do understand... its just not practical though is it.

[hijaxers]

Do you agree yay or nay,
One of James Bulgers killers is probably going to get a 5th new identity which to date will cost us 5 million pounds, James dad wants his identity revealed, his mom doesn't,imo he should NOT get one ,he should NOT be released ever again, he is a danger to society,but I can see that Denise does not want innocent people targeted,but given he himself has given his true identity can he be trusted with a new one? If the powers that be want to keep him safe,keep him where he is and throw away the key.

No i absolutely do not agree , this so called 'human being' has been taking the piss for years now - it needs to end , no one would want filth like him living anywhere near them . Enough is enough , no more because we all know you will offend again and again. Face your fate - bars for life.

[Jamie89]

He should be locked away for life imo. I believe in rehabilitation in general but he's proven that's not going to happen and he's been given more than enough chances. I'm against vigilante justice though so if he is released then I suppose I'd have to accept that a new identity would need to be part of that. It's not out of compassion for him, I honestly don't care if he's alive or dead, and it's begrudging, but I'd see it as a necessary way of upholding that aspect of the law, which for me is really important - it doesn't have anything to do with actually caring about his personal well being though. I'm against the death penalty as well though, I wonder if that's something that makes a difference in peoples opinion on this?

[Kazanne]

Only my opinion of course.

Your opinion is on a par with mine Kirk and I am always open to your thoughts,good post:wavey:

[kirklancaster]

Your opinion is on a par with mine Kirk and I am always open to your thoughts,good post:wavey:

Thank You Kaz. :kiss:

[bots]

Anyone who commits a sexual offense has to go on the sex offenders register. Then people have a right to ask who is on the register in their area. That was a measure brought in to protect people from predators. By giving Venables anonymity, they are removing peoples ability to protect themselves from him, and giving him free reign to commit further offences. That cannot be right, particularly given the gravity of his past. If he can't be protected on the streets and he is a danger to others, then it seems pretty obvious to me, he just shouldn't be released in to society.

[jaxie]

I’ve always been a fan of the UK justice system... Imagine the sort of crimes Venables (or any other psycho) would commit if they knew they’re about to receive a death penalty anyway.

Why are there so many mass-shootings in America? Imo, because, you murder one guy -you’re in jail for life, you murder ten guys, and they’ll give you ten life sentences. Its dumb, and the criminals know this. You kill one guy in America, you might as well kill another 50, and its terrifying that this is logical.

Venables has served his punishment. Maybe I’m being thick, but isnt changing his identity just giving him a new name and passport? That seems best for everybody, considering that Kaz has basically just glorified a future potential murderer :umm2:

Edit: surely he’s not allowed a passport. Is this just about him being called Billy instead of Jon?

The punishment he received has never fitted the crime. If you've ever read the things they did to that poor toddler you will realize very sick minds were involved. It wasn't just taking him to a train track and throwing bricks though that is bad enough. He was beaten, kicked, tortured and interfered with in a sexual, cruel way (his penis was injured and he was naked waist down) They put paint in his eyes and police believe batteries were inserted into his bottom. Even more disturbing children did this. There are some criminals like the Yorkshire ripper, Neilson and Ian Brady whose crimes were so depraved they will never be allowed into society again. Venables crime is right up there with them. In the best case scenario he should already be in broadmoor, in the worst should have been permanently tagged already. A fascination with child porn and interest in learning about how to abuse clearly shows he is not rehabilitated and has unnatural urges he seems to plan to act upon. A Manuel about how to have sex with children isn't on everyone's reading list. It's clearly a matter of time and opportunity.

No it isn't just a case of being given a new name. He will be relocated to a new part of the UK. He will have new papers and been found a place to live at the public's expense. He will likely be found work. All the documents needed for work, fake school records and qualifications will have to be provided. He will have social workers on tap. If he has contact with his family they will also have to be relocated if his identity is compromised. Giving anyone a new identity is a complex and expensive process.

[Kazanne]

The punishment he received has never fitted the crime. If you've ever read the things they did to that poor toddler you will realize very sick minds were involved. It wasn't just taking him to a train track and throwing bricks though that is bad enough. He was beaten, kicked, tortured and interfered with in a sexual, cruel way (his penis was injured and he was naked waist down) They put paint in his eyes and police believe batteries were inserted into his bottom. Even more disturbing children did this. There are some criminals like the Yorkshire ripper, Neilson and Ian Brady whose crimes were so depraved they will never be allowed into society again. Venables crime is right up there with them. In the best case scenario he should already be in broadmoor, in the worst should have been permanently tagged already. A fascination with child porn and interest in learning about how to abuse clearly shows he is not rehabilitated and has unnatural urges he seems to plan to act upon. A Manuel about how to have sex with children isn't on everyone's reading list. It's clearly a matter of time and opportunity.

No it isn't just a case of being given a new name. He will be relocated to a new part of the UK. He will have new papers and been found a place to live at the public's expense. He will likely be found work. All the documents needed for work, fake school records and qualifications will have to be provided. He will have social workers on tap. If he has contact with his family they will also have to be relocated if his identity is compromised. Giving anyone a new identity is a complex and expensive process.

:clap1::clap1: Yep,we are taught never to lie and this new ID etc is the biggest lie of all.:wavey:

[jaxie]

And there are so many mass shootings in America because you can buy a gun as easy as a candy bar and likely in the same store, they will still sell it you even though there is no proof you aren't mental, and semi automatic guns kill a lot of people quickly without the need for sniper skills. It's doubtful anyone with that mentality is thinking deeply about the consequences.