13 Reasons Why 2: Discussion Thread

[Morgan.]

New thread for a new series. Begins tomorrow on Netflix, I believe the whole series is available right away.

I'll either be watching it throughout the week or waiting until next to watch it with me mum. Depends on how much hype and spoiler risks it gets.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

The reviews have been awful so far so i probably won’t bother

[Headie]

Do we really need another thread :think: The first one is only 5 pages long:

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317837

[Morgan.]

Do we really need another thread :think: The first one is only 5 pages long:

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317837

Just thought because it covers a slightly new theme it would be best to refresh. Also the other one didn't come up in my search results so I just thought to make this :laugh:

[Headie]

Fair enough! Usually non-reality shows just have one thread so was just wondering!

[RileyH]

Gonna binge as soon as I get home tomorrow :clap1:

[Ross.]

I’m ready

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Y’all have such bad taste </3

[montblanc]

Y’all have such bad taste </3

:joker:

[Morgan.]

Series 2 has been added to Netflix now.

[Morgan.]

I like the sound of the series based on the episode titles and short summaries on Netflix, but time will tell. Apparently Zachs episode is the best so watch out for that one.

[Morgan.]

I think people aren't giving this series a chance. Just had a read of some spoiler free reviews and they're like 'I've only watched 2/3 episodes, but that's enough for me to decide this is 2 Stars' - like no it's a 13 episode season watch all of them and then decide.

[Nicky91]

new thread when the other one wasn't full :fan:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

I think people aren't giving this series a chance. Just had a read of some spoiler free reviews and they're like 'I've only watched 2/3 episodes, but that's enough for me to decide this is 2 Stars' - like no it's a 13 episode season watch all of them and then decide.

But if the first 2/3 episodes are garbage why bother watching the rest? The quality isn’t going to drastically improve :skull:

[Denver]

about to start

[Denver]

Its not very good so far just seems flat

[JerseyWins]

Pretty pumped up for this but I don't have a Netflix and my friend's account that's usually logged in on my laptop isn't logged in anymore :joker:

I made plans to binge watch the first bit of this season tomorrow though so I guess I shouldn't be watching yet anyway :suspect:

[RileyH]

Its not very good so far just seems flat

Your taste is awful tho so that means it's great

[Tom4784]

I haven't started watching the second season yet but I'm not too surprised to see it get mauled critically. I think they should have just made it a one season deal rather than add some very tasteless cliffhangers at the end of the first season to drag the show out.

[Denver]

Your taste is phenomonal tho so that means it's great

Why are you insulting yourself

[Denver]

4 episode in I'm close to giving up

[JerseyWins]

:skull:

Stranger Things is the superior Netflix "kids" show confirmed?

[RileyH]

Just put it on :clap1:

[RileyH]

:skull:

Stranger Things is the superior Netflix "kids" show confirmed?

Stranger Things is rubbish

[Tom4784]

Stranger Things is rubbish

How can everything you say be so wrong?

[RileyH]

How can everything you say be so wrong?

Excuse me

[Morgan.]

:skull:

Stranger Things is the superior Netflix "kids" show confirmed?

Not when 13RW is rated 18+ silly.

Anyway ST is ****e. I'm just about to get to episode 2 and although it's not as intense as S1, I'm still enjoying it.

[JerseyWins]

Well I'm gonna start avoiding this thread now before the spoilers start pouring in (RileyH)

How can everything you say be so wrong?
:joker: oop

[LukeB]

Season 1 is better but i’m still enjoying S2

[RileyH]

Well I'm gonna start avoiding this thread now before the spoilers start pouring in (RileyH)

Just stay away altogether imo

[Morgan.]

Me - skipping straight to the final episode of Thirteen Reasons just so I can see the twist before anyone else - neverrr

Not really a spoiler but just in case

There has to be a third season they can't ****ing leave it like that

[RileyH]

I've watched the first 2 episodes, will watch more in a bit

Skye :sad: I feel so bad for her, hopefully her being taken away in the ambulance was nothing serious bc I love her and Clay needs to treat her better.

[RileyH]

Ep 3-5, I wanted to watch more than this but I'm tired and cba

Ugh Jess :sad: :love: She needs to let Justin back in tho, he's only there for her :(

I'm really liking Hannah & Tony a lot more than I did in S1 :clap1: Might be an unpopular opinion but Chloe is a queen :worship: Tyler is just as awful as he was in S1, and I don't know what to ****ing think of his new weird ass friends either :bored:

[BBUKAUSFAN]

Just finished season 2 and what more can I say but wow. That was super intense and I'm kinda lost for words as to what happened.

The ending left it open so hopefully their is a season 3. God dam Tyler and his craziness.

[RileyH]

bye @ episode 11

https://68.media.tumblr.com/0372a58476a24f8c24ae5f6f1fbbb049/tumblr_oseryv5CMh1v9roxto9_400.gif

[RileyH]

Just finished it

ffs

I don't even know what to think :skull: Montgomery went completely out of line and should never have smashed Tyler's head into the mirror/sink/toilet etc let alone shove the mop up his ass, that was just ****ing disgusting I didn't need to see that

Jess shouldn't have kissed Justin after she got with Alex, but I love them so me caring? And Chloe being preggers omg shook

There has to be a season 3 like I won't even mind if it's just Clay/Jess/Justin on the run the entire time

[Morgan.]

Just finished it

ffs

I don't even know what to think :skull: Montgomery went completely out of line and should never have smashed Tyler's head into the mirror/sink/toilet etc let alone shove the mop up his ass, that was just ****ing disgusting I didn't need to see that

Jess shouldn't have kissed Justin after she got with Alex, but I love them so me caring? And Chloe being preggers omg shook

There has to be a season 3 like I won't even mind if it's just Clay/Jess/Justin on the run the entire time

I'm only on Episode 7 but I love Jess so much more this season so I wouldn't mind a Clay/Jess/Justin series because they're, like, the three best characters.

Don't mind Alex/Tony either.

[RileyH]

I'm only on Episode 7 but I love Jess so much more this season so I wouldn't mind a Clay/Jess/Justin series because they're, like, the three best characters.

Don't mind Alex/Tony either.

Jess was amazing in S1 too! :nono:

Jess, Justin, Sheri are the trinity :love: Alex, Clay, Hannah & Tony have been a lot better than in S1

[Denver]

Anyway at not spoilering it

[RileyH]

Nothing to spoiler

[Morgan.]

Jess was amazing in S1 too! :nono:

Jess, Justin, Sheri are the trinity :love: Alex, Clay, Hannah & Tony have been a lot better than in S1

I'm not saying I didn't like her in S1 but she was by no means my favourite.

Sherri is a bit of a non entity I wouldn't be upset to not see her again but she's not a bad character.

[Morgan.]

Anyway at not spoilering it

There was literally no spoiler there. I just said I wouldn't mind a series with those three characters.

[Denver]

Well know we know something big happens to those 3

[RileyH]

Who said that?

[Denver]

Why else would they have a series alone?

[RileyH]

Many different reasons

[LukeB]

Clay is ****e
Jessica is amazing
Zach is hot
Hannah is better this season

Thats all i have to say

[RileyH]

I'm not spoiling anything but there's a really awful scene in the last episode so I'm just warning y'all

[Morgan.]

I'm not spoiling anything but there's a really awful scene in the last episode so I'm just warning y'all

I'm not sure which you mean - but I'm 'that person' who watched the last 15 minutes of the last episode because someone teased a twist :joker: And I wanted to see the twist before anyone else so I just watched that before beginning the series (and this as like 9am and it got added to the uk at 8am so I was the first General Public Member to see it :joker:)

[RileyH]

I'm not sure which you mean - but I'm 'that person' who watched the last 15 minutes of the last episode because someone teased a twist :joker: And I wanted to see the twist before anyone else so I just watched that before beginning the series (and this as like 9am and it got added to the uk at 8am so I was the first General Public Member to see it :joker:)

You wouldn't have seen it then it's like 39 mins in

[Smithy]

Is it worth watching my friend said it’s a bit ****e?

[RileyH]

Better than s1 imo

[Denver]

How sad must you be though to skip a whole series just to watch the last 15 mins

[Morgan.]

Is it worth watching my friend said it’s a bit ****e?

It basically gives you a more balanced idea of what happened. You get to hear what the tape victims actuallythought to what they were accused of.

[Denver]

The 2nd half of the series was much stronger then the 1st.

They have gave more reason to do a 3rd series then they did to do a 2nd

I'm glad they decided to move away from Hannah and not make potential series about her.

I think Hannah's story was great and was very we'll acted

I don't like how a Bryce redemption is looking likely

I really hope they go through with Justin's adoption although it seems his step dad wants his blood but I wouldn't be surprised if someone killed his step dad

[BBUKAUSFAN]

The 2nd half of the series was much stronger then the 1st.

They have gave more reason to do a 3rd series then they did to do a 2nd

I'm glad they decided to move away from Hannah and not make potential series about her.

I think Hannah's story was great and was very we'll acted

I don't like how a Bryce redemption is looking likely

I really hope they go through with Justin's adoption although it seems his step dad wants his blood but I wouldn't be surprised if someone killed his step dad


Tyler to go anti-hero and take out Justin's stepdad :hehe::joker:

[Morgan.]

How sad must you be though to skip a whole series just to watch the last 15 mins

Oh I've watched the rest since and always would, I just couldn't wait to see the end.

[-Sue-]

I have been binge watching it since very early this morning (who needs sleep anyway right) on episode 11 now superb

Ignore the critics (in reviews) if you enjoyed season 1 season 2 is essential and a must watch

[RileyH]

The 2nd half of the series was much stronger then the 1st.


!! Every episode from episode 6 onwards had me shook

[JerseyWins]

Watched the first two episodes yesterday and honestly.... both me and my friend found it boring af and ended up going out even though we planned on watching like half of this season :joker:

I hope it just starts slow and this is not how the whole season goes :worry:

[RileyH]

Watched the first two episodes yesterday and honestly.... both me and my friend found it boring af and ended up going out even though we planned on watching like half of this season :joker:

I hope it just starts slow and this is not how the whole season goes :worry:

It gets better

[LukeB]

Finished Season 2 earlier and i did enjoy it. first 3 episodes were meh but it got better after that and the second half was great. I prefer S1 though but anyway it seems like they will be a season 3 and waiting 12 months for that :fist:

Jessica and Zach are king and queen :love:

Zach and Hannah > Clay and Hannah. Zach and Hannah losing their virginity to each other was cute :lovedup:

Chloe saying she was raped and then denying it in court and Nina burning those photos annoyed me so they were cancelled.

Bryce getting 3 months probation annoyed me but that happens but i'm not here for his 'redemption' so i hope they don't go down that route and we never see him again.

The tyler scene was uncomfortable but it's meant to be and they shouldn't be scared to show it because it happens to people and they need to make it realistic, people were complaining on twitter about it but as i said it's meant to be uncomfortable and hard to watch. Monty is SCUM and i think in season 3 we will know more about him because there is a reason why his dad beats him,him protecting Byrce and being obsessed with him, he is carrying something he is ashamed of and carrying so much anger which is why he did that to Tyler, still scum but he needs help.

I hope 13RW makes school realise they need to do more and help people because it could save a lot of peoples lives.

[RileyH]

Zach and Hannah > Clay and Hannah. Zach and Hannah losing their virginity to each other was cute :lovedup:

tea

[Morgan.]

Just on a rewatch now because it was just kind of on before and I'm just starting episode 11 and it's ****ing dark.

I'm gonna do another rewatch over the next week too just because I don't wanna miss anything :laugh:

[Morgan.]

The writer/director has said he's not sure if he wants to do a Series 3 but he said the same about S2 so :worry:

[RileyH]

I know they left it on a cliffhanger and everything but the show is about Hannah, and there's no way she can be incorporated into the show anymore so I won't be surprised if there's no Season 3 even tho I want it

[Denver]

I know they left it on a cliffhanger and everything but the show is about Hannah, and there's no way she can be incorporated into the show anymore so I won't be surprised if there's no Season 3 even tho I want it

wasn't it about how people coped with her death and how they all played a part in IR and nor Hannah herself?

[Morgan.]

I know they left it on a cliffhanger and everything but the show is about Hannah, and there's no way she can be incorporated into the show anymore so I won't be surprised if there's no Season 3 even tho I want it

The thing that happened wouldn't have without Hannahs story though, so in a way she's still involved. I've not properly watched E13 yet so not sure on the full resolve of the following, but surely they could still use her ghost in the way she did this series? Even if it's just once every few episodes.

But either way she doesn't have to appear, her suicide still has an impact on the characters and the story.

[Denver]

The thing that happened wouldn't have without Hannahs story though, so in a way she's still involved. I've not properly watched E13 yet so not sure on the full resolve of the following, but surely they could still use her ghost in the way she did this series? Even if it's just once every few episodes.

But either way she doesn't have to appear, her suicide still has an impact on the characters and the story.

her ghost disappeared after her friends and family said goodbye

[Morgan.]

her ghost disappeared after her friends and family said goodbye

Oh okay that's fair enough

[Morgan.]

Netflix pisses me off when they change the photo for a series every other day but it's worse this time because the one I can see is literally the biggest spoiler of the series

[RileyH]

What is it?

[Withano]

E1 was boring as ****, I’m not watching the rest.

[LukeB]

E1 was boring as ****, I’m not watching the rest.

E1 doesn't define a season though? it gets better, like most pilot episodes are crap but does that mean the show is rubbish? no

S2 is good but the second half is much better.

[Withano]

E1 doesn't define a season though? it gets better, like most pilot episodes are crap but does that mean the show is rubbish? no

S2 is good but the second half is much better.

I didnt care for S1 either though tbf, I went into S2 not expecting to finish it haha.

[Morgan.]

What is it?

It's an image of Tyler from the final episode looking angry and psycho. Like I know it's not an explicit spoiler but still if you'd watched most of the series Andy then saw that you'd be confused as to why.

[RileyH]

E1 doesn't define a season though? it gets better, like most pilot episodes are crap but does that mean the show is rubbish? no

S2 is good but the second half is much better.

tea

[Morgan.]

Chloe not grassing up Bryce in court broke my heart. And I'm 100% sure if he wasn't sat there she'd have confessed :bawling:

[RileyH]

Chloe not grassing up Bryce in court broke my heart. And I'm 100% sure if he wasn't sat there she'd have confessed :bawling:

This. I love her tho

[LukeB]

This. I love her tho

Lets hope she isn't bringing a monster into the world

[RileyH]

Lets hope she isn't bringing a monster into the world

I'm sure she's gonna be a great mother and her baby should be fine as long as she keeps Bryce away from it

[Denver]

My favourite part of the series was The mass brawl in the hallway

[Tom4784]

Four episodes in and....it's better than expected? Still, probably doesn't say much since my expectations were non-existent.

Marcus is a twat.

[y.winter]

In one word: unnecessary.

In general I wasn't crazy about the idea of continuing to a second series, as the story has been told as it should've been. The 13 reasons were told, the final act has been performed - story's done.
The second series oozes self-importance and tries to educate in quite a populist way - good intentions, but lacks reliability.
We have this idiom/slang in Hebrew that translates as "living in a movie", which basically means someone is deluded. It basically came to mind with almost every character this series and with almost every dialog.
The way the characters behave, talk, drinking coffee every afternoon like 20-something years old in NY, youngsters and adults seeing/talking to each other while ignoring the obvious differences, the drama, oh the drama in every sentence - just unrealistic and lacking credibility. Reminds me of why I prefer British TV.
I think Tony is the perfect example for everything that needs to be removed from this series in order to gain some credibility. He was terrible on series 1, and got even worse and unbearable this series.
Seriously, the biggest shame in this series was Hannah being reduced to a one dimensional character. It's the oldest trick in the book, ghost appearance, and it was no good. The fact that the best character (and actress) quite clearly couldn't be used for a second series should've been enough to stop at series 1.
This series didn't justify its existence imo, it wasn't terrible but wasn't too good either. They better stop now and not continue with it.

[Morgan.]

I actually went in thinking it would be unnecessary but actually found it just as, if not more important than the first series. We finished the first knowing just Hanna Bakers version of events, which focused on all the **** that went on in her life. What this series did was show not just her side, but the sides of those she held accountable. It also showcased some of her happier memories (the relationship with Zach) that she almost erased from existence to benefit her suicide story.

I'd also completely disagree with you on the point about Tony. Yes he was a tad annoying in the first series because he had all the answers but kept them the secret - but this series added more dimensions to his character and gave us the backs story as to why Hannah trusted him so much.

The ghost of Hannah was something I did feel was unnecessary in the series however I understand how it was important to show she still haunted Clay (in a metaphorical sense) and showed us his inability to move on from the events which is something very real for a lot of people suicide victims leave behind.

I think a third series is 100% needed to tie up those final loose ends;

How/if Bryce changes with just a slap on the wrist,
how Justin copes with relapse addiction and adoption,
if Clay/Jessica/Justin cover for Tyler's actions or take the fall,
how Olivia moves on after the funeral and lives her daughters dreams,
if Jessica finds peace after the trial,
if Chloe goes through with the pregnancy,
how/if Tyler regrets his actions,
how Alex recovers from the attempted suicide,
if Jessica is straight with Alex or Justin or if she lost and hides what happened -
the list really does go on. I'd agree though that it should come to a natural close at the end of S3 and finish there before it turns into a Soap Opera.

[JerseyWins]

Just watched Episode 4 and it's my favorite episode so far (basically the only one of the first 4 I kinda enjoyed watching). Finally felt like things were heating up in the storyline(s). :clap1:

And the ending
Alex finally re-listening to the tapes now after not remembering them :omgno:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Did anyone else find hannah an annoying bitch in s1

[RileyH]

Did anyone else find hannah an annoying bitch in s1

Yeah

[JerseyWins]

I'm on episode 9 now and ok this season is starting to get good. All of episodes 5-8 were pretty solid.

The tapes being leaked by Clay was big for this past episode :clap1:

[Ramsay]

I also preferred S2 to S1 but it's been so long since i seen S1 i pretty much forgot all about it.

[JerseyWins]

Episode 9 was a bit more on the bland side again IMO. Currently watching episode 10.

[JerseyWins]

Also I find it weird when I hear actors/actresses talking regularly in UK accents when they talk just like Americans in the film/TV show. How do they do the US accent so well? :joker:

[Denver]

Which actor is British

[Morgan.]

Which actor is British

I can only think of the councillor in Episode 13 but she doesn't fake American.

Katherine Langford (Hannah) is Aussie Jersey, if that's what's you mean?

[RileyH]

Stupid yank

[JerseyWins]

Lol I meant Katherine Langford (Hannah), she sounded British to me :laugh:

But how do people from other countries do American accents so well is it that basic lol? It reminded me of the British actors/actresses in Walking Dead that do the American accents so well too.

[Daniel.]

I started watching this Sunday and I'm on Season 2 Episode 2. I love it and it's underrated.

Season 2 is cute so far. Clay <3 Jessica <3 Tyler <3 Sherrie <3 Courtney <3

[RileyH]

I hated Courtney is S1 but she's not that bad in S2

[JerseyWins]

Ok I've finished this... WHERE is episode 14 for the real finale? :joker: I liked season 2, it was a good second half (or from like episode 5 and on) but that finale was disappointing! Overall I definitely preferred season 1 though even before the last episode.

All that buildup in the season & the final episode just for a really bad cliffhanger ending? :yuk: I guess Season 3 is a guarantee though? :joker:

Also Justin this season :clap1:

[Daniel.]

I finished Season 2 and I thought it was better than Season 1.

The scene in the bathroom really left me shook.

I hope theres a Season 3

[Denver]

1004377374312497152

[LukeB]

No idea how S3 will work but i guess it was needed because of that ending

[RileyH]

Yaaas :clap1:

[RileyH]

Better not take as long as s2

[LukeB]

Better not take as long as s2

it will

[JerseyWins]

Better not take as long as s2
It can and it will

[Daniel.]

Perched

Season 2 kept me up until 5am watching

[Ross.]

Better not take as long as s2

It was only a year you impatient bitch

[Denver]

It was only a year you impatient bitch

14 months actually

[Morgan.]

Netflix confirmed 13 episodes again.

[Ross.]

14 months actually

Try waiting for the final Game of Thrones season!

[RileyH]

14 months actually

Educate her

[Denver]

Try waiting for the final Game of Thrones season!

I am

[LukeB]

Netflix confirmed 13 episodes again.

Not them confirming 13 episodes when we should know by now it will always be 13 episodes. Netflix shows are always 13 episodes.(correct me if im wrong)

[Tom4784]

Netflix needs to drop the 13 episode format for their shows, 10 or 8 are way pacier and better.

[Daniel.]

I thought it was 13 episode as a play on the title?

[Tom4784]

I finished the second season.

I had nothing but low expectations going in so I enjoyed it a bit more than I expected but the series itself was problematic as hell.

Starting with the biggest problem of the series, Tyler. I didn't mind the school shooting aspect, it's a bit tasteless to do such a storyline but I was okay with it but my major issue with it was that it was a sexual assault that drove him to that point. I think they should have given the sexual assault storyline to another character instead and have Tyler go down the school shooter path. Although it's realistic that rape convictions are rare and rarely satisfying, having Bryce basically get off scot free and THEN portraying a victim as a would be shooter was a bit grotesque. It was just badly handled, I thought.

The Hannah stuff felt a bit extraneous tbh and it made her less of a sympathetic character than she was in the first season, having her talk to Clay so frequently was weird and it didn't fit at all. Only good thing to come from the Hannah storyline is that we got more of Kate Walsh who is probably the only capable actor on the show.

Also I'm sick of Clay as the main character, he's terrible. Justin's storyline also felt a bit cliched but I like pairing him up with Clay's family.

The things I did like were the characters of Zach and Sherrie, I think Jessica had a good arc although, given that Hannah didn't get her justice, Jessica's S2 storyline should have ended with her getting justice.

Overall it was quite a needless season but it was watchable, I guess.

[Denver]

Am I the only one impatiently waiting for an air date? It's been a year and all they can say is it's coming in 2019

[RileyH]

I NEED S3

[Denver]

Its apparently coming in October :skull:

[LukeB]

Season 3 starts 23rd August

[LukeB]

1156927590369615872

[RileyH]

im READY
Pws-LN_-riM

[Denver]

I love how they are taking a brand new direction away from Hannah yet still having Hannah being part of it by having her rapist murdered

[sleleen]

Omg is that miss Edith from Years & Years voice? Icon:love:

[Denver]

Just realised the 23rd is the day my week off from work starts so guess who is binge watching?

[Denver]

it has been renewed for a 4th and final season

[Daniel.]

Perched

[Mystic Mock]

The premise of season 3 sounds better than season 2 imo.

Hopefully it gets executed well.

[Morgan.]

Mess I thought it was Sherri scrubbing the bloody shirt in the trailer but it’s a new character :skull:

She’s called Ani and she’s the new narrator.

[Morgan.]

oMxTK3-hgeo

[Nicky91]

i'm gonna continue with this, i had watched till episode 5 of season 1 but i lost focus and went onto watching other series :skull:

but i'm really wanting to watch more episodes now of this

[Daniel.]

Season 2 is sooo underrated it was so much better than 1

[DouglasS]

Season 2 really surprised me as I was expecting it to be awful but it ended up being good and so I’ll give this a try. Not sure where if I’m as invested in this storyline as I was in the Hannah baker justice storyline

[Vicky.]

Rewatching this now as..well will be watching s3 even though I think anything after s1 was pointless rubbish tbh (though fulll of drama tbf) and they apear to have..2 years later, cut the suicide scene, and any seeing blood im the bath...from the end episode..bit late nah? :laugh:

Me being me, searched for the normal version of course. But I still feel they knew how shocking it was, the effect it would have on young teens, and left it in specifically for the drama, for the publicity, and to 'we listened to suicide experts and removed it' years later?! Such empty words :laugh:

[Vicky.]

Am also quite sure, given the storyline for next series

Its gotta be Mrs Baker shooting Bryce? Start of s2 was her at a shooting range. And its very obviously not Clay like the ad points towards..

Not sure if predictions need spoilers, prob not tbh :laugh:

[JerseyWins]

Oh yeah so this is coming VERY soon then, here for it!

Good and I'll watch but it won't be better than Stranger Things x

[Vicky.]

Does this usually all drop at once? Or do they release weekly, seems they do both depending on the program..as stepdaughter was very annoyed that they didn't release the whole of riverdale in one go :hehe:

[Ramsay]

All in one go, think that's cus Riverdale is released weekly in America on one of their channels but Netflix has the rights to show it in Ireland and UK

[Morgan.]

Does this usually all drop at once? Or do they release weekly, seems they do both depending on the program..as stepdaughter was very annoyed that they didn't release the whole of riverdale in one go :hehe:

It was all in one go the last 2 series because Netflix is its primary channel.

Riverdale is weekly because Netflix isn’t its primary channel. It airs weekly in the US on CW Channel, and then a day later on Netflix.

[Vicky.]

Ah right, that makes sense. So are all the shows that are actually netflix originals released as a bulk watch then?

[Liam-]

Is this worth catching up on? I watched the first season and loved it but haven’t picked it back up yet

[Morgan.]

Ah right, that makes sense. So are all the shows that are actually netflix originals released as a bulk watch then?

Typically, yes.

Is this worth catching up on? I watched the first season and loved it but haven’t picked it back up yet

Season 2 was just as good if not better than Season 1, so I’d say so yes.

[Denver]

Series 3 has just dropped

[Vicky.]

Only watched 1 so far, but I absolutely adore the new girl.

Shes obviously a big part of it, given it seems to be being shown by her perspective, rather than clays? Thats how it comes across anyway, with the narration and that

[Morgan.]

Loved the first episode. Waiting to watch the rest with my mum when I’m home later.

[RileyH]

ep2 spoiler
when they showed bryce's dead body -

https://78.media.tumblr.com/2568e3a727d0daacb7df08cf6a6e6255/tumblr_inline_p6n6okiZvy1s646gy_540.gif

[RileyH]

ok so I'm currently on ep7 and tbh I'm just ****ing confused

all the drama that's supposed to have happened between s2&3 plus the constant switches between past and present to the point I'm getting muddled up within the timelines is a lot to get my head around!

[Morgan.]

ok so I'm currently on ep7 and tbh I'm just ****ing confused

all the drama that's supposed to have happened between s2&3 plus the constant switches between past and present to the point I'm getting muddled up within the timelines is a lot to get my head around!

I’ve only seen two (and the last one because I’m an impatient bitch but I’m going back to watch the whole thing :p) but I’d agree that already I’m struggling to keep up with all the between-season events

[Denver]

I'm on episode 9 and have a feeling the killer is His mum

[RileyH]

why am i nearly feeling sorry for bryce https://i.imgur.com/j5Tmxci.png

[Ant.]

Mess it's already out?

[Morgan.]

Mess it's already out?

8am bitch

[Ant.]

8am bitch

I got better things to do :dazzler:

[Daniel.]

Without spoiling how does it compare to seasons 1 and 2

[Denver]

Without spoiling how does it compare to seasons 1 and 2

It's more confusing but infeel you find out more then the previous 2 series

[Morgan.]

Without spoiling how does it compare to seasons 1 and 2

From what I’ve seen probably on par with 2. I still don’t think anything compares to the original story - and although this plot is better than 2’s, it’s more confusing and much more intense. You have to watch with full attention.

[Morgan.]

Also episode 13 had me shook, probably one of my fave episodes

[RileyH]

How have you seen the last episode I thought you were only like 2 in

[RileyH]

I just realised I haven't seen Sheri ONCE, where is she?

Chloe needs more screentime too!

[Morgan.]

How have you seen the last episode I thought you were only like 2 in

If you LISTENED I said I’m an impatient bitch and watched the last episode (well, skimmed through)

[Denver]

Absolutely shook Alex killing Bryce and Ani pinning it on Monty

[Denver]

I kinda felt sorry for Monty this series as we found out more of his back ground and why he acts like he does ( not that the rape was excusable)

Also the fact he died after coming to terms with his sexuality is heartbreaking

[Denver]

I dont know how its possible but I loved Bryce this season

[RileyH]

e12
I am SOBBING @ Tyler & JUSTIN standing up at the assembly :bawling: Justin <333

[RileyH]

ok. finished. thoughts.
this season is probably my least favourite so far. i still enjoyed it don't get me wrong, but it was SO confusing and annoying with the time switches it made it so hard to keep track of everything. also everything that happened between seasons 2 & 3 was just about impossible to keep track of but it ~kinda all came together in the end so i'm not mad.

they somehow managed to make bryce likable this season? i never ever thought i'd say that.. but they did. one of my least favourite moments of the season was when they boycotted the funeral, it was completely unnecessary and i loved how jess called it out. i also didn't completely hate monty? obviously what he did to tyler can't be forgotten or forgiven, but his backstory is completely tragic and him trying to come to terms with his sexuality was so hard to watch, especially when he beat up winston :( i'm glad he did the right thing and apologised, and then going back to him. it's right he got locked up tho, but him being murdered in the last episode and also ani trying to frame him or bryce's murder is really quite saddening. and then the scene in the last episode with winston returning and showing his feelings towards monty, idk i just feel like it could've been cute but i hate myself for thinking it bc i know i'm supposed to hate monty for what he did to tyler

i also liked tyler towards the end of this season. i didn't like him at all in the previous seasons but it was so sweet him coming to terms with what he went through and seeing him build friendships with everyone else, even tho he started off saying he had no friends even when they were trying to make the effort. and then clay & jess helping him be able to fully stand up in that assembly and say he was a survivor, and ultimately giving him the confidence to finally go and report it was so wholesome :love:

another thing i'm happy about this season is getting a more in depth look into tony's character. in the previous seasons he'd just been a friend to everyone else, but the whole storyline with his family getting deported and seeing more of his relationship with caleb <3 also i'm SO happy with jess & justin being a happy couple at the end of the season :love: definitely my favourite characters and i ship them so hard, they really blossomed this season and i LOVE it. clay & justin's relationship is cute too

i still HATE clay tho. he's so infuriating and easily the worst character in the franchise. especially since i was starting to like everyone else more this season i just ended up hating him more. he's just whiny and insufferable and i hate how he's always the focus. i wish he got locked up and kept AWAY from s4! i also HATED how they tried to make him and ani a thing. it was so cliche and unneeded. they don't even suit and he was a lot better with hannah & even skye.

another thing that confused me about this season was loads of the characters disappearing? ryan & sheri weren't seen once with no explanation at all, marcus got a mention at the beginning but i can't remember what about and courtney got like one scene. i know they were never the closest with bryce but they could've at least been added somewhere into the season? not so much ryan as i barely noticed he was gone or marcus bc i don't like him but he did have some relationship with bryce along with sheri. chloe should've also been involved a lot more than she was. she was in what? 3 episodes? she's bryce's ex and ended s2 as his pregnant girlfriend and that definitely should've gone somewhere rather than just a quick abortion. her and zach are the CUTEST tho and i hope they get together next season <33 we deserved some more clips of them together even if just to try and involve chloe more.

the murder itself had me SHOOK. when zach admitted to alex he did it i lit gasped but i knew it would end up being a false alarm and i'm so happy it was. zach is so precious and needs to be protected at all costs. i love his relationship with alex they have such a gorgeous friendship. ani telling the officer monty was waiting to go at bryce and then seeing alex and then jess omg i was shaking so hard. seeing bryce in that state even tho he had tried to be a better person was a bit sad, but in the end i was happy alex killed him! i think it was a tad lame tho like just a quick shove into the ocean but it worked. that clip of his dead body in ep2 whew i nearly threw up.

overall i'd probably rank the seasons 2 > 1 > 3, i liked s3 but i was expecting a bit more. i hope s4 ends up being better especially as the last season :( episodes 11 & 12 really SCALPED tho and are some of the best in the entire series.

[Morgan.]

ok. finished. thoughts.
this season is probably my least favourite so far. i still enjoyed it don't get me wrong, but it was SO confusing and annoying with the time switches it made it so hard to keep track of everything. also everything that happened between seasons 2 & 3 was just about impossible to keep track of but it ~kinda all came together in the end so i'm not mad.

they somehow managed to make bryce likable this season? i never ever thought i'd say that.. but they did. one of my least favourite moments of the season was when they boycotted the funeral, it was completely unnecessary and i loved how jess called it out. i also didn't completely hate monty? obviously what he did to tyler can't be forgotten or forgiven, but his backstory is completely tragic and him trying to come to terms with his sexuality was so hard to watch, especially when he beat up winston :( i'm glad he did the right thing and apologised, and then going back to him. it's right he got locked up tho, but him being murdered in the last episode and also ani trying to frame him or bryce's murder is really quite saddening. and then the scene in the last episode with winston returning and showing his feelings towards monty, idk i just feel like it could've been cute but i hate myself for thinking it bc i know i'm supposed to hate monty for what he did to tyler

i also liked tyler towards the end of this season. i didn't like him at all in the previous seasons but it was so sweet him coming to terms with what he went through and seeing him build friendships with everyone else, even tho he started off saying he had no friends even when they were trying to make the effort. and then clay & jess helping him be able to fully stand up in that assembly and say he was a survivor, and ultimately giving him the confidence to finally go and report it was so wholesome :love:

another thing i'm happy about this season is getting a more in depth look into tony's character. in the previous seasons he'd just been a friend to everyone else, but the whole storyline with his family getting deported and seeing more of his relationship with caleb <3 also i'm SO happy with jess & justin being a happy couple at the end of the season :love: definitely my favourite characters and i ship them so hard, they really blossomed this season and i LOVE it. clay & justin's relationship is cute too

i still HATE clay tho. he's so infuriating and easily the worst character in the franchise. especially since i was starting to like everyone else more this season i just ended up hating him more. he's just whiny and insufferable and i hate how he's always the focus. i wish he got locked up and kept AWAY from s4! i also HATED how they tried to make him and ani a thing. it was so cliche and unneeded. they don't even suit and he was a lot better with hannah & even skye.

another thing that confused me about this season was loads of the characters disappearing? ryan & sheri weren't seen once with no explanation at all, marcus got a mention at the beginning but i can't remember what about and courtney got like one scene. i know they were never the closest with bryce but they could've at least been added somewhere into the season? not so much ryan as i barely noticed he was gone or marcus bc i don't like him but he did have some relationship with bryce along with sheri. chloe should've also been involved a lot more than she was. she was in what? 3 episodes? she's bryce's ex and ended s2 as his pregnant girlfriend and that definitely should've gone somewhere rather than just a quick abortion. her and zach are the CUTEST tho and i hope they get together next season <33 we deserved some more clips of them together even if just to try and involve chloe more.

the murder itself had me SHOOK. when zach admitted to alex he did it i lit gasped but i knew it would end up being a false alarm and i'm so happy it was. zach is so precious and needs to be protected at all costs. i love his relationship with alex they have such a gorgeous friendship. ani telling the officer monty was waiting to go at bryce and then seeing alex and then jess omg i was shaking so hard. seeing bryce in that state even tho he had tried to be a better person was a bit sad, but in the end i was happy alex killed him! i think it was a tad lame tho like just a quick shove into the ocean but it worked. that clip of his dead body in ep2 whew i nearly threw up.

overall i'd probably rank the seasons 2 > 1 > 3, i liked s3 but i was expecting a bit more. i hope s4 ends up being better especially as the last season :( episodes 11 & 12 really SCALPED tho and are some of the best in the entire series.

Marcus’ mention was Courtney saying she took over his position on the school council think because he was a prick who liked strippers, or something on those lines.

[JerseyWins]

Ok, just watched Ep 1 and it's off to an ok start. I really need a reminder for what happened in season 2 though because my memory with this show is so hazy. I remember 1 more than I remember anything from 2 :think:

But now that I've started, I'm feeling like going for a little binge... probably tomorrow morning/afternoon.

[Morgan.]

Ok, just watched Ep 1 and it's off to an ok start. I really need a reminder for what happened in season 2 though because my memory with this show is so hazy. I remember 1 more than I remember anything from 2 :think:

But now that I've started, I'm feeling like going for a little binge... probably tomorrow morning/afternoon.

In the trailers and more section there’s a series recap for 2.

[Morgan.]

Also my film theory student ass finally clicked how to tell the past from the present 5 episodes in.

The past scenes take up the whole screen, and they’re slightly brighter in colour. The present scenes have the black borders top and bottom, and they’re slightly duller in colour.

[Vicky.]

Onto number 12 now and..has been pretty decent so far tbh

I cannot believe how ****ing sorry I am feeling for BRYCE?! I hated him, like reaslly hated him, and still see him as a rapist yet am feeling a lot of sympathy and do actually 'believe' hes trying to turn stuff around? Rather than just trying to sort his reputation?. Very strange

Also, sorry but its clearly not Clay. I still think it was Hannahs mother, at this stage, probably very wrong though

Its easy to tell the difference with the flashbacks and current events? Not getting how thats confusing people. As Morgan said, current stuffs almost in grey tone...older stuffs in bright colour.

[Ramsay]

Ani is the worst, that is all

[Vicky.]

Yeah, loved her to start with, now shes just ****ing annoying

[Vicky.]

OK, on last one now and..

How come everyone seems to have forgotten that Bryce was shot..even the police now sya it was drowning and have not meentioned being shot.instead said it was drowning? Very strange..the photo looks like hes shot in the back of the head also..

[Morgan.]

OK, on last one now and..

How come everyone seems to have forgotten that Bryce was shot..even the police now sya it was drowning and have not meentioned being shot.instead said it was drowning? Very strange..the photo looks like hes shot in the back of the head also..

I just watched episode 5, and to answer this

The police discovered it wasn’t a gun wound but instead the hole in his head was made with phycisal violence

[Vicky.]

I just watched episode 5, and to answer this

The police discovered it wasn’t a gun wound but instead the hole in his head was made with phycisal violence

Ahh right, must have missed that bit xD Seemed to be a huge plot hole.

Finished it now, and I do think it was quite good. Was pleasantly surprised that it didnt end up all about hannah again..and it seems any future episodes will just be..well general storytelling rather than centred around a character I found to be annoying, and manipulative..and juct an awful person tbh

.

[JerseyWins]

Ok episode 2 was booooooring... crazy ending tho!

Edit: Also these episodes are long af... and feel even longer :laugh:

Also my film theory student ass finally clicked how to tell the past from the present 5 episodes in.

The past scenes take up the whole screen, and they’re slightly brighter in colour. The present scenes have the black borders top and bottom, and they’re slightly duller in colour.
There's past scenes on this season? :o

I-

Ok jk but yeah the flashbacks were sooooooo confusing for me at first so thanks this helped quite a bit for episode 2 :clap1:

As for the time frame.... how far back are the flashbacks? A few months before? I also feel like there's actually about 3 separate timeframes they switch between but maybe I'm tripping. Maybe I was thinking that just because of the couple flashbacks to the night of the dance (which is like a few days before present day I believe??

[Denver]

Ok episode 2 was booooooring... crazy ending tho!

Edit: Also these episodes are long af... and feel even longer :laugh:


There's past scenes on this season? :o

I-

Ok jk but yeah the flashbacks were sooooooo confusing for me at first so thanks this helped quite a bit for episode 2 :clap1:

As for the time frame.... how far back are the flashbacks? A few months before? I also feel like there's actually about 3 separate timeframes they switch between but maybe I'm tripping. Maybe I was thinking that just because of the couple flashbacks to the night of the dance (which is like a few days before present day I believe??

Bryce was murdered on that night

[JerseyWins]

Bryce was murdered on that night
I know that :suspect:

So are there 3 different periods on the show's timeline with that day/night included (or was that just for the premiere)? OR is it just two points: the past from months back & the present from a few days after his murder? I'm not getting if the present timeline is all a straight timeline moving forward or if it's going back and forth between the span of a few days :think:

[Nicky91]

still at season 1, yes a bit slow watcher am i, but so far it's interesting to watch

[JerseyWins]

Ep 3 was pretty boring too

It heated up a bit in the second half... in more ways than one... fffff @ the Jessica masturbating scene & the Jessica/Justin sex scene(s) :skull:

Intense convo between Justin/Bryce but not much else. Also, I'm even more confused by the timelines after this episode. No clue how far back the flashbacks are or what kind of time period we're talking (is it hours/days/weeks/even months that are going by throughout these flashbacks?) :think:

Anyway, I really hope it picks up but I heard it does so I'll stick with it :shrug:

[Jordan.]

Uh watching the first ep, it's been okay but the new girl is annoying af. They really forced her into the narrative (with a snooty accent) when she should have just sat there and minded her business.

[JerseyWins]

Ep 5

The Monty gay scene was so unexpected lolol :skull:

The Bryce/Alex plot as the focal for this episode was interesting enough but overall I still feel like this season is boring compared to the first two.

Ep 6

Nnnnnnnn the rapist protests/chaos at the church for Bryce's funeral. Episode 6 was another boring one ngl :skull: Felt like total filler the entire episode this time unlike the last 2 or 3 that at least had a few entertaining/crazy moments.

Ending was interesting though with the police finding Clay pointing his gun at Bryce... looks like it could pick up now.

[Daniel.]

I finished last night, probably the poorest season but the last few episodes were very good, how did I end up having sympathy for Montgomery? A mess.

[Morgan.]

Grace Saif who plays Ani has had to deactivate social media from all the abuse she’s been getting :umm2:

[Morgan.]

The same people who watched a show about a young girl break down from bullying and abuse and then kill herself now bullying an actor from the show :umm2: Disgusting :umm2:

[Nicky91]

i am into season 2 now, and i really don't know why people complain about it, i am liking it so far

[JerseyWins]

Maybe Ani gets worse later but she’s totally fine episodes 1-6 :shrug: A lot better than Hannah Baker (she definitely got annoying at times)

[Morgan.]

Gary Sinise from Forrest Gump has joined he cast to play Clays therapist helping him through depression and anxiety following the events of 1-3

[Ramsay]

But you ain't got no legs, lieutenant daaan

[Ant.]

so i finished it and:

-idk if I'm happy it was Alex or not. tbf he wasn't on my radar until episode 13 when they mentioned footsteps showing the right foot was showing a limp and I was like "yep it's Alex". was kinda hoping it'd be a fakeout but meh it absolutely makes sense (especially in retrospect) and I'm glad they didn't go for a copout (altho Ani killing Bryce would've been interesting but not necessarily better)

-on the topic of copouts, even tho I knew Alex was guilty, there was still a sense of anxiety and "oh **** who is it" when we saw the pair of feet at the pier. At this point I was actually considering Clay because I was convinced it was too obvious to be Alex, so I actually had goosebumps when they panned
up and revealed it was Alex :omgno: nice twist imo

-Had Monty's death spoilt for me but that was it. Not too pressed because his death wasn't some 'big' thing, it was just some throwaway comment :unsure: but why was Monty murdered in his cell? Not a homophobic attack, surely?

-Monty being gay was hot and is just an example of "hurr durr homophobes are actually just gay and hate themselves!!!" was a nice touch. Makes sense as to why he mentions gay people every 2 seconds too. When Winston said "we met a party" I was thinking "ah **** did they ****" and i was right. Winston and Monty would've been a cute couple but boring and annoying so lol #ripmonty (but I also want to see his body and an explanation as to why he was murdered :suspect: )

-genuinely thought Jess chose to date Alex at the Standall Thanksgiving meal. I was glad to be wrong. Well, not glad per se - I just prefer Jessica and Justin :p

-so Zach didn't get any prison time for GBH? :think:

-no hannah was good!! not that i disliked her but what would be the ****ing point in having her turn up again (she was shown in a flashback for like, 30 seconds total, and we did hear tape #13/7a(?) but that was it).

-not to sound thick but... what lie did Ani make about Alex? That he went with Monty to go and see Bryce? But I'm sure she said Monty drove to Bryce? But Standall knows his wife's car was used? So it would've made sense for her to say Monty went to Alex's house and got in his mum's car and drove to Bryce? Am I being thick and misreading the entire situation once again?

-HOW did Ani convince the police to not arrest Tyler? She told them he was gonna commit a school shooting but said "once you hear what I say about Tyler you won't want to arrest him"...?? What did she say again?

-the moment I saw the boat I thought "oh boy they're gonna find the guns". But I don't see how this could be a plotpoint to Season 4? Deputy Standall already heard that Tyler was gonna shoot up the school and I think Ani told him they were disposed of in the river? So the police aren't gonna be shocked, surely?

-shook at them making me like Tyler. On a similar note, I was almost crying when he explained his sexual assault :bawling: amazing acting

-Casey (i typed in "annoying lesbian 13rw" to find her name lmao) being a massive bitch to Tyler was a "**** u" moment and I also ABSOLUTELY hated her attitude to Jessica by trying to 'read' her or whatever when she simply didnt want to boycott Bryce's funeral but her apology to tyler was cute

-genuinely thought they were gonna pair ani and jessica up but then their friendship became questionable? felt like season 1 all over again when i couldnt tell how close jessica and hannah were, or even if they were friends :skull:

-bryce: -tries to improve himself and dies while trying to redeem himself-
me: https://media1.tenor.com/images/8ad6ea717235ca03e618c2296affa246/tenor.gif?itemid=6021175


Grace Saif who plays Ani has had to deactivate social media from all the abuse she’s been getting :umm2:

What's there for people to hate?

I won't lie, Ani just seems like a self-insert OC (I'm the quirky new girl from England and I'm super close with the main characters!!!! :hee:) but I actually really enjoyed her, even from the start

I genuinely cannot think of a reason for me to dislike her, let alone give the actress hate :umm2:

[Ant.]

I just realised I haven't seen Sheri ONCE, where is she?

Chloe needs more screentime too!

Sheri handed herself into the police iirc?
ok. finished. thoughts.
this season is probably my least favourite so far. i still enjoyed it don't get me wrong, but it was SO confusing and annoying with the time switches it made it so hard to keep track of everything. also everything that happened between seasons 2 & 3 was just about impossible to keep track of but it ~kinda all came together in the end so i'm not mad.

they somehow managed to make bryce likable this season? i never ever thought i'd say that.. but they did. one of my least favourite moments of the season was when they boycotted the funeral, it was completely unnecessary and i loved how jess called it out. i also didn't completely hate monty? obviously what he did to tyler can't be forgotten or forgiven, but his backstory is completely tragic and him trying to come to terms with his sexuality was so hard to watch, especially when he beat up winston :( i'm glad he did the right thing and apologised, and then going back to him. it's right he got locked up tho, but him being murdered in the last episode and also ani trying to frame him or bryce's murder is really quite saddening. and then the scene in the last episode with winston returning and showing his feelings towards monty, idk i just feel like it could've been cute but i hate myself for thinking it bc i know i'm supposed to hate monty for what he did to tyler

i also liked tyler towards the end of this season. i didn't like him at all in the previous seasons but it was so sweet him coming to terms with what he went through and seeing him build friendships with everyone else, even tho he started off saying he had no friends even when they were trying to make the effort. and then clay & jess helping him be able to fully stand up in that assembly and say he was a survivor, and ultimately giving him the confidence to finally go and report it was so wholesome :love:

another thing i'm happy about this season is getting a more in depth look into tony's character. in the previous seasons he'd just been a friend to everyone else, but the whole storyline with his family getting deported and seeing more of his relationship with caleb <3 also i'm SO happy with jess & justin being a happy couple at the end of the season :love: definitely my favourite characters and i ship them so hard, they really blossomed this season and i LOVE it. clay & justin's relationship is cute too

i still HATE clay tho. he's so infuriating and easily the worst character in the franchise. especially since i was starting to like everyone else more this season i just ended up hating him more. he's just whiny and insufferable and i hate how he's always the focus. i wish he got locked up and kept AWAY from s4! i also HATED how they tried to make him and ani a thing. it was so cliche and unneeded. they don't even suit and he was a lot better with hannah & even skye.

another thing that confused me about this season was loads of the characters disappearing? ryan & sheri weren't seen once with no explanation at all, marcus got a mention at the beginning but i can't remember what about and courtney got like one scene. i know they were never the closest with bryce but they could've at least been added somewhere into the season? not so much ryan as i barely noticed he was gone or marcus bc i don't like him but he did have some relationship with bryce along with sheri. chloe should've also been involved a lot more than she was. she was in what? 3 episodes? she's bryce's ex and ended s2 as his pregnant girlfriend and that definitely should've gone somewhere rather than just a quick abortion. her and zach are the CUTEST tho and i hope they get together next season <33 we deserved some more clips of them together even if just to try and involve chloe more.

the murder itself had me SHOOK. when zach admitted to alex he did it i lit gasped but i knew it would end up being a false alarm and i'm so happy it was. zach is so precious and needs to be protected at all costs. i love his relationship with alex they have such a gorgeous friendship. ani telling the officer monty was waiting to go at bryce and then seeing alex and then jess omg i was shaking so hard. seeing bryce in that state even tho he had tried to be a better person was a bit sad, but in the end i was happy alex killed him! i think it was a tad lame tho like just a quick shove into the ocean but it worked. that clip of his dead body in ep2 whew i nearly threw up.

overall i'd probably rank the seasons 2 > 1 > 3, i liked s3 but i was expecting a bit more. i hope s4 ends up being better especially as the last season :( episodes 11 & 12 really SCALPED tho and are some of the best in the entire series.

yes! @ani and clay. altho i certainly aint arsed about them getting together per se, it just felt like they were making a point of "look clay's moved on from hannah!"

i forgot courtney was even in it :skull: i guess they couldnt find a way to fit courtney and ryan into the series. and so they decided to make monty gay and introduce another gay character, winston, to fill the diversity quota /sarcasm