NFL clubs to be fined if players kneel during anthem

[Tom4784]

NFL teams will be fined if players kneel for the US national anthem under a new policy.

The American football league said players who do not stand for the Star-Spangled Banner can stay in the locker room until it has been performed.

The NFL also vowed to "impose appropriate discipline on league personnel who do not stand and show respect for the flag and the Anthem."​

Players said the protests were against policy brutality of African Americans.

"It was unfortunate that on-field protests created a false perception among many that thousands of NFL players were unpatriotic," said NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell in a statement accompanying Wednesday's new policy.

"This is not and was never the case. This season, all league and team personnel shall stand and show respect for the flag and the Anthem.

"Personnel who choose not to stand for the Anthem may stay in the locker room until after the Anthem has been performed."

"All team and league personnel on the field shall stand and show respect for the flag and the Anthem," the first provision of the new policy reads.

Before, NFL players were required to be on the field for the anthem, but there was no firm directive to stand for the anthem.

The policy also includes the provision that individual clubs can develop their own rules - that abide by the new principles - about how to handle personnel who do not wish to stand.

It does not state how much clubs will be fined should their players protest on the field, but gives them the option to fine players for breaking the new rules.

The statement comes a day after NFL teams pledged $90m towards social justice initiatives, under an agreement reached with all 32 teams in the league.

The debate over the kneeling protests began in 2016, when San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick refused to stand for the anthem.

Similar demonstrations spread across the league, where most players are African American.

Some kneeled, as Mr Kaepernick had done, while others linked arms to show solidarity for the movement.

President Donald Trump was highly critical of the protests, calling them "disgraceful" and unpatriotic. He also urged the players to be fired.

US Vice-President Mike Pence also left an NFL game because players from Mr Kaepernick's team knelt during the anthem.

The league has also been dealing with declines in viewership.

What has the reaction been?
The NFL Players Association (NFLPA) issued a statement following the policy announcement saying they were not consulted.

"NFL players have shown their patriotism through their social activism, their community service, in support of our military and law enforcement and yes, through their protests to raise awareness about the issues they care about," the statement reads.

"The vote by NFL club CEOs today contradicts the statements made to our player leadership by Commissioner Roger Goodell and the Chairman of the NFL's Management Council John Mara about the principles, values and patriotism of our League."

The union said it will be reviewing the policy and will challenge aspects that are inconsistent with the collective bargaining agreement.

As I said when someone brought this to my attention a short while ago, America's all about freedom of speech....as long as it doesn't offend the Right Wing.

It's an utterly ridiculous ruling that flies in the face of principles that America was built upon. To disallow people to peacefully protest in a harmless was is about as unpatriotic as you can get.

[Oliver_W]

#TheTheKnee has a totally different meaning for me ;)
It means I'm praying to Jesus

But yeah, if someone wants to make an exhibition of themselves, let them do it.

[montblanc]

a prime example of the hypocrisy in this country

"freedom of speech" my ass

[montblanc]

America's all about freedom of speech....as long as it doesn't offend the Right Wing.

:clap1:

[Maru]

Business-wise, they're probably doing it to protect their viewing numbers. The NFL has been taking a ratings hit and some suspect it's do with the politicization... it has 0 to do with being Right-wing. Politics has seeped into every TV show, every life performance, etc... some of my favorite shows became heavily politicized and I stopped watching because it took away from the immersion in some cases. It's not that I don't care about politics, I listen and watch to a lot of different forms of political media in my own time, but it's gone way overboard here in the States and is ruining entertainment...

I think the NBA did the same thing. Good call imo... if they want to be an activist for some cause, do it in their own time and not on someone else's dime. It's a little bit different than a player being interviewed and someone asking what their cause(s), opinions are... that I think is OK... but during a live show, it's literally preaching and it's gone quite a bit overboard in the US as far as live entertainment. It's become quite toxic.

[Maru]

I guess look at it this way. If pro-Trump stuff was in the media all the time and it was a reminder to you of negative things, that would get really old fast and probably some of those sections of the population as well would tune out...and I personally feel if it's just the NFL, it's not that big of a deal... but everywhere we turn, there's reminders of politics somewhere, on either end of the spectrum. Sports is normally our only escape.

The NFL was always considered to be the sacred lamb, the only place we could go escape as a nation and relax... NFL particularly has always been considered a patriotic sport, but in a more unifying way in that it's always been an apolitical sport (though obviously pro-American)... despite natural disasters, war, despite all the things happening around the world, we always had the NFL... for example, during the Superbowl and the MLB championship in Houston, people were literally in their homes that were tore down the studs to watch the game on a TV set with very little furniture... that little escape is all some people really have to keep them going. Same with the inmates in jail... if there is a game on, it's super quiet, everyone is well-behaved, people who normally hate each other get together and cheer... it means so much to people.

[Tom4784]

Business-wise, they're probably doing it to protect their viewing numbers. The NFL has been taking a ratings hit and some suspect it's do with the politicization... it has 0 to do with being Right-wing. Politics has seeped into every TV show, every life performance, etc... some of my favorite shows became heavily politicized and I stopped watching because it took away from the immersion in some cases. It's not that I don't care about politics, I listen and watch to a lot of different forms of political media in my own time, but it's gone way overboard here in the States and is ruining entertainment...

I think the NBA did the same thing. Good call imo... if they want to be an activist for some cause, do it in their own time and not on someone else's dime. It's a little bit different than a player being interviewed and someone asking what their cause(s), opinions are... that I think is OK... but during a live show, it's literally preaching and it's gone quite a bit overboard in the US as far as live entertainment. It's become quite toxic.

It say it's got nothing to do with the right wing is utterly ridiculous. It's the Fox News', the Donald Trumps, the Breitbarts and other Right Wing people that are upset that certain people don't do things the way they want them to. These are the kinds of people that use the term 'snowflakes' without realising they are the biggest snowflakes around. Forcing people to react to the national anthem the way how you want them to react is as unpatriotic as it gets and the NFL has given in to right wing pressure. It's an attempt through intimidation by the Right Wing to silence issues that offend them.

If anyone finds someone silently kneeling to be too much, toxic or preaching, then they need to toughen up. As long as these players do their jobs on the field it should be up to them how they position themselves during the national anthem.

[MB.]

What a thoroughly stupid country

[Brillopad]

:clap1:

The left wing have the audacity to speak of free speech with all their PC demands trying to dictate what everyone else can and cannot think, nevermind say. :shrug:

[MB.]

The left wing have the audacity to speak of free speech with all their PC demands trying to dictate what everyone else can and cannot think, nevermind say. :shrug:

That's lovely dear, meanwhile black people are getting killed by the police

[Tom4784]

The left wing have the audacity to speak of free speech with all their PC demands trying to dictate what everyone else can and cannot think, nevermind say. :shrug:

Care to add anything to the thread? You know, the subject of the Right Wing pressuring organisations to force people to stand during the anthem in order to prevent them from protesting racially motivated police brutality?

Your point may have been relevant but I don't see any left wing organisations agreeing with this decision so your PC-related ire should probably be redirected to the right since it's them that are being overly PC in this story. You should probably read the article before commenting in future.

[montblanc]

The left wing have the audacity to speak of free speech with all their PC demands trying to dictate what everyone else can and cannot think, nevermind say. :shrug:

isn't that exactly what the right wing is doing in this situation?

[Brillopad]

isn't that exactly what the right wing is doing in this situation?

Maybe - but if the left wing have been doing the same type of thing for some time they are hardly in a position to moan about it. I agree with Maru they should protest on their own time.

[Crimson Dynamo]

get them Donald


:clap1:

[montblanc]

Maybe - but if the left wing have been doing the same type of thing for some time they are hardly in a position to moan about it. I agree with Maru they should protest on their own time.

but people DO protest on their own time and the right still have a problem with it

[montblanc]

they're simply using their platform to peacefully protest to a mass audience so i don't see the problem with it?

[Crimson Dynamo]

they're simply abusing their platform to peacefully protest to a mass audience

fixed

[montblanc]

how is it abuse lmao

[Tom4784]

Maybe - but if the left wing have been doing the same type of thing for some time they are hardly in a position to moan about it. I agree with Maru they should protest on their own time.

That's terrible logic, though.

'I hate PC but it's okay when the right does it because the left is still to blame somehow!'

You cannot be opposed to PC and then be fine with it when it suits you. It's completely hypocritical.

All they are doing is kneeling, they aren't refusing to do their jobs, they aren't doing anything differently other than not standing when someone sings a song. It's a ridiculous move by the NFL and one prompted by Right Wing pressure, as I said in the first post. Freedom of speech is great as long as you don't offend the right wing.

[Maru]

It say it's got nothing to do with the right wing is utterly ridiculous. It's the Fox News', the Donald Trumps, the Breitbarts and other Right Wing people that are upset that certain people don't do things the way they want them to. These are the kinds of people that use the term 'snowflakes' without realising they are the biggest snowflakes around. Forcing people to react to the national anthem the way how you want them to react is as unpatriotic as it gets and the NFL has given in to right wing pressure. It's an attempt through intimidation by the Right Wing to silence issues that offend them.

If anyone finds someone silently kneeling to be too much, toxic or preaching, then they need to toughen up. As long as these players do their jobs on the field it should be up to them how they position themselves during the national anthem.

I don't agree with that really. I think that people who are for the large part fairly apolitical are starting to vote for their feet and I don't think it's a sudden thing. We're assuming that the US has a high population of hyper-partisanship. I think that's far too kind. Maybe it seems that way because the left dominates so much of media (and social media in many cases) and it can seem like it's always reciprocal effect, but there are still many people who are quite apathetic towards politics and are turned off when it comes up in conversations. It's not something people like to talk about for that reason, because it's always been an emotionally toxic topic and it is even more-so given the 2016 election(s)...

Anyway, I don't think it's as simple as shutting off out of outrage. I think it happens overtime as people are turned off by shifts in advertising, sports coverage and other "notable" figures using that airtime to get up on the pulpit. It has a negative effect on sports in general is my opinion.

There is also a trend that can be seen with polling, primary numbers (already way too low) and the presidential vote having a very low turn-out, where people really just feel the whole thing is rigged ...if I were running the NFL, it's not something I would want to be associated with the sport (that feeling of something being "rigged")... but politics has saturated all media and it knows no boundaries atm. So the more it gets injected into the sport and nothing to mitigate this, I think it turns some people off from the game. We're only accounting for the Republicans/Trump voters when we are talking about gauging the reaction of people who watch... I think it is seriously affecting apolitical folk as well... and I don't think that people boycott so much as news coverage likes to make it seem based on politics... there are a lot of people who love the game enough they will watch and gripe, but I imagine it's probably a combination of all other things plus the fact politics has saturated all media. I don't think the NFL is the only one who has witnessed this effect. That's why I don't really see it as just this or that. I think add it all together, people don't personally appreciate being "advertised to" when they're ready to relax in front of their favorite show... and a lot of the advertisements as well have gone that direction (that's why Superbowl it became less political this year as well).

The other pet peeve I hear from folk here, the NFL has always done things a certain way in some respects and to see the sport change and for it to buckle in this way and allow demonstrations ruins the spirit of the game for some. But honestly I think it's more of a saturation problem than a knee-jerk response... people are too fickle when it comes to boycotts for it to be just that.

[Northern Monkey]

I can see where the NFL is coming from.
People watch sports to escape from all the serious crap going on in the world.
When the anthem is played it’s live on TV,Part of the show and they are representing their organisation.
I’d guess that ratings went down when these players started bringing politics into the sport.
Pissing off a section of your audience is very bad for business.
I’d think any company would punish or sack employees that started to harm their image.
Leave politics out of sport.Let people enjoy it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

how is it abuse lmao

abusing their position to make a personal political statement

[montblanc]

abusing their position to make a personal political statement

abusing their position by kneeling down for a two minute song? :skull:

[montblanc]

stop acting as if their running across the field with banners and screaming stuff during the national anthem

they're silently and peacefully kneeling down during a song :skull:

[Brillopad]

abusing their position by kneeling down for a two minute song? :skull:

On the company’s time - sports stars are no different to anyone else and should keep it out of the workplace.

[Brillopad]

stop acting as if their running across the field with banners and screaming stuff during the national anthem

they're silently and peacefully kneeling down during a song :skull:

It isn’t just a song is it.

[montblanc]

It isn’t just a song is it.

it is

[Maru]

I can see where the NFL is coming from.
People watch sports to escape from all the serious crap going on in the world.
When the anthem is played it’s live on TV,Part of the show and they are representing their organisation.
I’d guess that ratings went down when these players started bringing politics into the sport.
Pissing off a section of your audience is very bad for business.
I’d think any company would punish or sack employees that started to harm their image.
Leave politics out of sport.Let people enjoy it.

Right. I don't even think that it has to do specifically with it being a particular message of any sort of affiliation... if anyone, right or left, interrupted the anthem during an NFL game then it's not necessarily going to go well with the base which is known to be very patriotic and has always considered it to be a unifying sport... like subtle messages during the halftime show (such as Gaga 2018) and post-game interviews, that's not really a big deal at all since it's just the player's personal opinions...

[Brillopad]

it is

Not to the NFL who are their employers - and not to many of the Americans who attend the matches who also pay their salaries.

[Headie]

So when they sing 'land of the free' they obviously only mean for a select few

[montblanc]

Not to the NFL who are their employers - and not to many of the Americans who attend the matches who also pay their salaries.

it is to the many americans that still suffer from the institutionalized and blatant racism displayed by "the land of the free and the home of the brave"

[montblanc]

So when they sing 'land of the free' they obviously only mean for a select few
it is to the many americans that still suffer from the institutionalized and blatant racism displayed by "the land of the free and the home of the brave"

http://78.media.tumblr.com/ad84d36f144405d5d92374cc964985c9/tumblr_o0ad1ibnkK1s8dn3vo1_250.gif

[Brillopad]

it is to the many americans that still suffer from the institutionalized and blatant racism displayed by "the land of the free and the home of the brave"

And that has nothing to do with the NFL. Again they can protest in their own time - not try to do it at their employer’s expense.

[montblanc]

And that has nothing to do with the NFL. Again they can protest in their own time - not try to do it at their employer’s expense.

we can agree to disagree i guess :)

[kirklancaster]

I don't agree with that really. I think that people who are for the large part fairly apolitical are starting to vote for their feet and I don't think it's a sudden thing. We're assuming that the US has a high population of hyper-partisanship. I think that's far too kind. Maybe it seems that way because the left dominates so much of media (and social media in many cases) and it can seem like it's always reciprocal effect, but there are still many people who are quite apathetic towards politics and are turned off when it comes up in conversations. It's not something people like to talk about for that reason, because it's always been an emotionally toxic topic and it is even more-so given the 2016 election(s)...

Anyway, I don't think it's as simple as shutting off out of outrage. I think it happens overtime as people are turned off by shifts in advertising, sports coverage and other "notable" figures using that airtime to get up on the pulpit. It has a negative effect on sports in general is my opinion.

There is also a trend that can be seen with polling, primary numbers (already way too low) and the presidential vote having a very low turn-out, where people really just feel the whole thing is rigged ...if I were running the NFL, it's not something I would want to be associated with the sport (that feeling of something being "rigged")... but politics has saturated all media and it knows no boundaries atm. So the more it gets injected into the sport and nothing to mitigate this, I think it turns some people off from the game. We're only accounting for the Republicans/Trump voters when we are talking about gauging the reaction of people who watch... I think it is seriously affecting apolitical folk as well... and I don't think that people boycott so much as news coverage likes to make it seem based on politics... there are a lot of people who love the game enough they will watch and gripe, but I imagine it's probably a combination of all other things plus the fact politics has saturated all media. I don't think the NFL is the only one who has witnessed this effect. That's why I don't really see it as just this or that. I think add it all together, people don't personally appreciate being "advertised to" when they're ready to relax in front of their favorite show... and a lot of the advertisements as well have gone that direction (that's why Superbowl it became less political this year as well).

The other pet peeve I hear from folk here, the NFL has always done things a certain way in some respects and to see the sport change and for it to buckle in this way and allow demonstrations ruins the spirit of the game for some. But honestly I think it's more of a saturation problem than a knee-jerk response... people are too fickle when it comes to boycotts for it to be just that.

:worship: What an absolutely superbly written and insightful post, Maru, and oh so true.

[Brillopad]

we can agree to disagree i guess :)

:thumbs:

[Shaun]

:shrug: if they took their political protest off the field they'd just be accused of virtue-signalling or attention-seeking, and get a ton of "it's easy for you to say, in your $$$$$ mansions!" complaints. And then athletes who don't engage in politics, charity or local communities are accused of being selfish and shallow. Seems a lose-lose situation.

I don't know the words to the UK national anthem beyond the first verse - as I'm sure many here don't - but funnily enough it would be within my rights to say that's because it's a dreadfully dreary piece of music that should've been replaced with 'Jerusalem' months ago (I understand replacing things with Jerusalem is a little bit contentious lately, though :ninja2:). I also am not a royalist so feel no sense of loyalty to the anthem. Does that mean I'm unpatriotic? If you're a royalist, sure. Key phrasing being 'if' though. To make a long post short: there shouldn't be a holy veil of protection around tokens and gestures of a country's sovereignty.

[Maru]

it is to the many americans that still suffer from the institutionalized and blatant racism displayed by "the land of the free and the home of the brave"

So because someone got elected that people feel is a true racist (which I'm not saying they don't have good reason to feel as such, they absolutely do), it now nullifies everything that America has stood for, all the blood that our ancestors spilled, all the people we liberated, all the amazing achievements we've made as a nation, including the strives we've made in civil rights... all the other rights we enjoy as individuals, the flag and constitution has nothing to do with these things?...

That's the epitome of privilege. Which is why so many folk are going to be turned off by those antics during the anthem. Donald Trump's vote count was lower than John McCain's iirc. Maybe the left needs to look at themselves and realizes if maybe if part of the reason they lost is because of their behavior... and it's not because the US is an evil entity out to ruin people's lives... there is far more evidence of the latter.

[Jack_]

Business-wise, they're probably doing it to protect their viewing numbers. The NFL has been taking a ratings hit and some suspect it's do with the politicization... it has 0 to do with being Right-wing. Politics has seeped into every TV show, every life performance, etc... some of my favorite shows became heavily politicized and I stopped watching because it took away from the immersion in some cases. It's not that I don't care about politics, I listen and watch to a lot of different forms of political media in my own time, but it's gone way overboard here in the States and is ruining entertainment...

I think the NBA did the same thing. Good call imo... if they want to be an activist for some cause, do it in their own time and not on someone else's dime. It's a little bit different than a player being interviewed and someone asking what their cause(s), opinions are... that I think is OK... but during a live show, it's literally preaching and it's gone quite a bit overboard in the US as far as live entertainment. It's become quite toxic.

The problem is the national anthem is always already political. So too is a flag. Hell, acknowledging the existence of national borders is political. There is no "true" escape from politics because it exists all around us. So really, forcing people to 'respect' a national anthem is a political move in and of itself.

This would be a lot worse if there wasn't an option for players to stay in the dressing room (and hopefully it's done on a mass scale for maximum embarrassment), but it still doesn't sit well with me that in a country that is supposed to be one of the bastions of western democracy, people are being told they can't peacefully protest during a political song.

[Brillopad]

So because someone got elected that people feel is a true racist (which I'm not saying they don't have good reason to feel as such, they absolutely do), it now nullifies everything that America has stood for, all the blood that our ancestors spilled, all the people we liberated, all the amazing achievements we've made as a nation, including the strives we've made in civil rights... all the other rights we enjoy as individuals, the flag and constitution has nothing to do with these things?...

That's the epitome of privilege. Which is why so many folk are going to be turned off by those antics during the anthem. Donald Trump's vote count was lower than John McCain's iirc. Maybe the left needs to look at themselves and realizes if maybe if part of the reason they lost is because of their behavior... and it's not because the US is an evil entity out to ruin people's lives... there is far more evidence of the latter.

Well said!

[montblanc]

So because someone got elected that people feel is a true racist (which I'm not saying they don't have good reason to feel as such, they absolutely do), it now nullifies everything that America has stood for, all the blood that our ancestors spilled, all the people we liberated, all the amazing achievements we've made as a nation, including the strives we've made in civil rights... all the other rights we enjoy as individuals, the flag and constitution has nothing to do with these things?...

That's the epitome of privilege. Which is why so many folk are going to be turned off by those antics during the anthem. Donald Trump's vote count was lower than John McCain's iirc. Maybe the left needs to look at themselves and realizes if maybe if part of the reason they lost is because of their behavior... and it's not because the US is an evil entity out to ruin people's lives... there is far more evidence of the latter.

the U.S. national anthem protests started before Trump was elected if i'm not mistaken?

and even so while America does have such achievements racism is far from gone especially in this country and people need to acknowledge that

[Maru]

The problem is the national anthem is always already political. So too is a flag. Hell, acknowledging the existence of national borders is political. There is no "true" escape from politics because it exists all around us. So really, forcing people to 'respect' a national anthem is a political move in and of itself.

This would be a lot worse if there wasn't an option for players to stay in the dressing room (and hopefully it's done on a mass scale for maximum embarrassment), but it still doesn't sit well with me that in a country that is supposed to be one of the bastions of western democracy, people are being told they can't peacefully protest during a political song.

Politics has nothing to do with customs though. Every culture and every nation has some sort of custom when it comes to the flag. If you and I were in a country that had an anthem and a custom, we would be expected to follow that custom. That's any country, Western or not. To the do the opposite is simply anti-social behavior... and it's this anti-social behavior that is turns most people off of politics. Maybe some people are in favor of anti-social displays.. but I don't think any social fabric, much less a culture, would last very long in political turmoil without some sort of mutual custom(s) and unifying philosophy/ideology.

[Maru]

the U.S. national anthem protests started before Trump was elected if i'm not mistaken?

and even so while America does have such achievements racism is far from gone especially in this country and people need to acknowledge that

People disagree though on the prevalence of racism. That also has to be acknowledged.

Anyway, The NFL doesn't need to pick a side. I completely understand their decision, and it's understandable why people would see the gesture as simply disrespectful (regardless of their political views) when all other media is saturated with all these messages...

[bots]

there should be zero politics in sport. Take a look at what happened to the Manchester City Manager when he did a silent protest by wearing a ribbon in support of Catalonia here in the UK .... Removing any form of political statement from sport is the correct solution.

[Brother Leon]

https://wrhsbluestreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Kaepernick-2-900x600.jpg

[Matthew.]

im sorry, just… what?
i simply dont see any logic here at all.

it’s the same as that “should kids sing the national anthem in schools?” debate - to which my answer is NO - because the world just seems to be going backwards at the minute.

what a carry on.

[James]

Yeah, I can see why people want to keep political gestures out of sport. Politics is very divisive, and people who are okay with it in sport, when it is a cause they agree with - like BLM - are often against if it was something they opposed like, say, supporting Trump.

there should be zero politics in sport. Take a look at what happened to the Manchester City Manager when he did a silent protest by wearing a ribbon in support of Catalonia here in the UK .... Removing any form of political statement from sport is the correct solution.

I was just going to mention Pep Guardiola's ribbon. People in this country didn't care much about it, because not many people here have strong views, or much interest, about that issue. But if it was something that was a controversial issue in the UK (eg. Brexit) there would be a lot against it.

The FA chief executive [Martin Glenn] said:


....."We have re-written Law 4 of the game so that things like a poppy are OK. But things that are going to be highly divisive, and that could be strong religious symbols, it could be the Star of David, it could be the hammer and sickle, it could be a swastika, anything like Robert Mugabe on your shirt, these are the things we don't want," he told UK newspapers.

"And to be honest, and to be very clear, Pep Guardiola's yellow ribbon is a political symbol, it's a symbol of Catalan independence. And, I can tell, you there are many more Spaniards, non-Catalans, who are p***** off by it.

"All we are doing is even-handedly applying the Laws of the Game. Poppies are not political symbols; that yellow ribbon is."

Glenn questioned where the FA would stop if it allowed Guardiola to continue wearing his ribbon.

"Where do you draw the line – should we have someone with a UKIP [UK Independence Party] badge, someone with an ISIS badge?" he said.

"That's why you have to be pretty tough that local, regional, national party organisations cannot use football shirts to represent them."


From http://www.goal.com/en/news/should-we-have-someone-with-a-ukip-or-isis-badge-glenn-says-peps-/f76klrz9mugp1aher9969pkez

[Tom4784]

On the company’s time - sports stars are no different to anyone else and should keep it out of the workplace.

How dare they kneel on company time!

Of course the NFL is different to a normal workplace, it's silly to pretend it is. NFL stars are visible and known to millions of people and this ban sends a message 'You're allowed opinions, just as long as it doesn't offend our sensitive right wing overlords.'

These stars weren't stopping a match and wheeling out a board to preach politics, they were making a harmless statement that didn't affect the game at all but became a story because it offended a bunch of white people who don't want to acknowledge the fact that black people are being abused and killed by officers that should be protecting them.

The NFL have shown themselves to be spineless bitches with this ban.

[Tom4784]

Yeah, I can see why people want to keep political gestures out of sport. Politics is very divisive, and people who are okay with it in sport, when it is a cause they agree with - like BLM - are often against if it was something they opposed like, say, supporting Trump.



I was just going to mention Pep Guardiola's ribbon. People in this country didn't care much about it, because not many people here have strong views, or much interest, about that issue. But if it was something that was a controversial issue in the UK (eg. Brexit) there would be a lot against it.

The FA chief executive [Martin Glenn] said:



From http://www.goal.com/en/news/should-we-have-someone-with-a-ukip-or-isis-badge-glenn-says-peps-/f76klrz9mugp1aher9969pkez

As it's been said above, if they want to keep politics out of sports then why are they singing the national anthem? Why do they have flags in the stadium? Everything in this world is political and the only reason why this story got such a backlash is because certain people can't handle politics when it doesn't affect them even if it's just a minor gesture like kneeling.

[James]

It's an American thing to play their national anthem before (domestic) sporting events. I thought they did it before music concerts also, but I can't find any evidence that happens.

[Maru]

It's an American thing to play their national anthem before (domestic) sporting events. I thought they did it before music concerts also, but I can't find any evidence that happens.

We do before all kinds of live performances. It's not a hard and fast rule though.

[Brillopad]

As it's been said above, if they want to keep politics out of sports then why are they singing the national anthem? Why do they have flags in the stadium? Everything in this world is political and the only reason why this story got such a backlash is because certain people can't handle politics when it doesn't affect them even if it's just a minor gesture like kneeling.

And they can kneel in their own time. When will the pushy left learn there is a time and a place and the more they push the less people listen!

Out of interest:

https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/

[Ammi]

...I guess the ‘umbrella’ of politics is prevalent everywhere, in so many things...but essentially and fundamentally though, the silent protest is about equality...and there doesn’t seem any more appropriate time to ‘silently voice’ those words of inequality as when an anthem is being sung of ‘the land of the free’..the free and the equality of everyone, every citizen in a country...this fine/ban feels so ironic in view of the recent Royal Wedding and the words of MLK being quoted by Bishop Michael Curry...so uplifting, so progressive, so emotional...and I think the very thing that the world we live in right now, so much needs...but sadly no, not the thoughts of the NFL it would seem...this is not the time, this is not the place etc...is there a ‘right’ time and right place to look for equality...very sad, very disheartening..:sad:...


..I recall when Tamir Rice’s mother called for peaceful protests..(..because street protests with raised voices were not the thing and not the way it was said...)...so the ‘progression’ is to a peaceful and silent protest with a blended knee because of anthem words that are not always being practised...an absolutely perfect time...and still no, you can’t do that...that ‘no voice’ for me is the only voice which disrespects everything America was built on and the flag and the anthem in what they stand for...very sad, very regressive..:sad:...

[Beso]

Today i am going to sit on my arse all day and do nothing at work in protest against the shocking lack of employee rights in this country.......i will be signing on tomorrow.

[Crimson Dynamo]

As it's been said above, if they want to keep politics out of sports then why are they singing the national anthem? Why do they have flags in the stadium? Everything in this world is political and the only reason why this story got such a backlash is because certain people can't handle politics when it doesn't affect them even if it's just a minor gesture like kneeling.

what is political about the national anthem and flag that is for all the people regardless of politics?

[Brillopad]

You don't disrespect your country's flag and anthem, despite all the good it represents and the people who have died fighting for it etc, because you have some issues with Government and their policies etc. It is a low, manipulative blow and unlikely to get much support.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You don't disrespect your country's flag and anthem, despite all the good it represents and the people who have died fighting for it etc, because you have some issues with Government and their policies etc. It is a low, manipulative blow and unlikely to get much support.

maybe they could forego the millions they make playing sports and go into politics and serve the community?

[Nicky91]

i'm not gonna stand during our national anthem now :inamood:


and these players should kneel if they want to themselves

[Cherie]

I heard this morning that they can stay in the tunnel if they don't want to stand for the Anthem so is seems this has been blown out of proportion. If they stay in the tunnel it is still a protest

[Brillopad]

i'm not gonna stand during our national anthem now :inamood:


and these players should kneel if they want to themselves

Well they should be sacked/replaced if they do.

[Tom4784]

And they can kneel in their own time. When will the pushy left learn there is a time and a place and the more they push the less people listen!

Out of interest:

https://nypost.com/2017/09/26/all-that-kneeling-ignores-the-real-cause-of-soaring-black-homicides/

He kneeled. That's all he did. You say 'pushy left' but your pushing all this meaning on to him kneeling, it's hilarious.

[Tom4784]

what is political about the national anthem and flag that is for all the people regardless of politics?

Both are and have been contentious issues throughout history, they are political whether you like it or not.

You don't disrespect your country's flag and anthem, despite all the good it represents and the people who have died fighting for it etc, because you have some issues with Government and their policies etc. It is a low, manipulative blow and unlikely to get much support.

How politically correct of you :clap1:

It's America, people have the freedom of speech and expression (as long as you don't offend the sensitive right wing!) and they should have the right to protest as they wish as long as it's peaceful.

Saying that disrespecting the flag is the same as disrespecting veterans is such a bull**** argument that the right wing love to make, it's an overly emotional approach to try to belittle and shut down opinions that they don't like. Kneeling in response to the national anthem is not an attack on veterans or anything else, it's all a quiet, peaceful protest about the systematic racism and abuse within the US' law system.

[Tom4784]

Well they should be sacked/replaced if they do.

Freedom of Speech! Now with limitations!

[Brillopad]

He kneeled. That's all he did. You say 'pushy left' but your pushing all this meaning on to him kneeling, it's hilarious.


Not half as hilarious as the fuss those people are making about kneeling in the first place. :hehe: They should pick their battles wiser.

[Tom4784]

Not half as hilarious as the fuss those people are making about kneeling in the first place. :hehe: They should pick their battles wiser.

I agree, the right wing shouldn't be so upset by people kneeling.

[Brillopad]

I agree, the right wing shouldn't be so upset by people kneeling.

Clearly I am talking of those choosing to kneel at a sporting event to make a political point. You really are tiresome.

[Brillopad]

Freedom of Speech! Now with limitations!

You’re the king of attempted shut-down speech, always trying to label people whose opinions you don’t agree with, so constantly trying to turn it round on others is futile and boring.

As usual the ‘kneelers’ and those supporting them are trying to shove their opinions and protests down the throats of others. It’s a sporting event not a political rally!

[Brillopad]

I agree, the right wing shouldn't be so upset by people kneeling.

They can kneel their little socks off - just not on others’ time.

[Tom4784]

Clearly I am talking of those choosing to kneel at a sporting event to make a political point. You really are tiresome.

You're getting upset over someone choosing to kneel, you're proving my point.

They can kneel their little socks off - just not on others’ time.

Again, they weren't kneeling in the middle of the game, the games in which players kneeled went off without a hitch. It's a case of the right wing making a mountain out of a molehill and you are desperately reaching in trying to make out that the left stirred up this controversy when it was the right that took issue with it. Nothing you can say can change the fact that the right wing are who took issue with players kneeling.

You’re the king of attempted shut-down speech, always trying to label people whose opinions you don’t agree with, so constantly trying to turn it round on others is futile and boring.

As usual the ‘kneelers’ and those supporting them are trying to shove their opinions and protests down the throats of others. It’s a sporting event not a political rally!

It's called having an opinion, i know you only believe that freedom of speech should be reserved for you and people who share your opinion but it isn't. You just brand any opinion you dislike as someone trying to shut you down when that act in itself is you trying to shut down anyone you disagree with. You simply can't handle opinions that aren't your own.

[Niamh.]

Kim Jong Who?