USA : Restaurant owner asks Trump press secretary to leave

[arista]

Well done on her for leaving the Cafe.


[Sarah Huckabee Sanders said on Twitter that she had been at a Red Hen restaurant in Lexington, Virginia, on Saturday night when the owner made the request.
She had "politely left" the business, she told her 3 million followers.
She added: "(The owner's) actions say far more about her than about me.
"I always do my best to treat people, including those I disagree with, respectfully and will continue to do so."]


https://news.sky.com/story/restaurant-owner-asks-trump-press-secretary-to-leave-11414901


I guess they could have served her
then spat in her food??

[GiRTh]

This happened to the Homeland Security Boss the other day too.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/kirstjen-nielsen-protesters-mexican-restaurant

[Crimson Dynamo]

sad

[The Slim Reaper]

They are completely in favour of bakeries turning away gay people for wedding cakes, so they should be in favour of restaurants turning away customers because they are professional liars.

[Crimson Dynamo]

They are completely in favour of bakeries turning away gay people for wedding cakes, so they should be in favour of restaurants turning away customers because they are professional liars.

not really the same now is it

:joker:

[The Slim Reaper]

not really the same now is it

:joker:

If you support the rights of a business to refuse service to someone else, then it's exactly the same.

[Scarlett.]

not really the same now is it

:joker:

True, turning people away because of who they love with each other is very different to turning someone away for being a piece of human garbage.

[Tom4784]

True, turning people away because of who they love with each other is very different to turning someone away for being a piece of human garbage.

Yup.

If people can turn away others on the grounds of their sexuality then nobody should blink at a business owner turning away someone on account of being a twat.

[Crimson Dynamo]

keep belittling people and calling them twats and human garbage :umm2:


and it makes you no better than those you chose to criticise

:)

[Scarlett.]

keep belittling people and calling them twats and human garbage :umm2:


and it makes you no better than those you chose to criticise

:)

Given the person whom we are criticising is currently separating kids from their parents and locking them in cages, I'd like to think we're a little better.

[Northern Monkey]

Well they can serve who they want i spose.Did they give a valid reason?Was she drunk or something?

[Alf]

They are completely in favour of bakeries turning away gay people for wedding cakes, so they should be in favour of restaurants turning away customers because they are professional liars.Well that comes down to whether you seperate politics from religious beliefs, or not?

[Tom4784]

keep belittling people and calling them twats and human garbage :umm2:


and it makes you no better than those you chose to criticise

:)

LT, let's be real here. You have no horse in this race beyond which one is gonna get you the biggest reaction.

[Tom4784]

Well that comes down to whether you seperate politics from religious beliefs, or not?

Apparently not, given that the courts ruled in favour of discrimination.

[Maru]

It's their call to make I think. Yeah kind of nasty but I think in those situations it is better to turn the other cheek... she is a bit of a loud mouth, for as much as she will say she handles
things with class, I think true grace is to let it go and maybe try to see it from their POV, forgive and move on... they are entitled their opinion and if it were my business and I allowed a situation that made them (the staff) feel uncomfortable (and maybe they tamper with food or cause a scene), I would be doing a wrong for both parties... from what I read about the owner and his own comments, I think he held a respectable position... basically, what other call could he make after he talked to his staff, who were homosexual and quite distraught. I guess, imagine if we ourselves had to hold a celebration for someone we feel holds an adversarial position towards a cause close to our hearts... it would be difficult to be comfortable in that situation. Personally, its not the same as design or art, so wouldnt be a moral issue for me in that particular instance... I would still serve them with grace and good-will... I think that humility is lacking in our culture and the latter does nothing to change people's minds, but serves to further segregate us... but that's me, others will do as they please... (edit) anyway I think we all grow as individuals when we encounter these kinds of situations... whether it means sticking to our guns or learning to allow others the room to open us up to their own differing worldview...

[michael21]

I guess they could have served her
then spat in her food??

Sure but if there get caught there be sacking and big fine

[Maru]

Sure but if there get caught there be sacking and big fine

And an article about the great big fat check from TMZ for the spitting videos...

[Maru]

What an odd sort of request to run by CSPAN... "Would you please keep us informed on what happens to that restaurant in case somebody tries to burn it down for her?"... Really??? That's pretty suspicious.

C-SPAN GOP caller suggests someone will burn down restaurant that protested Sarah Sanders
VJ7IrpA_C8M

[Beso]

Turn the words trump press secretary to muslim and blacks and the hypocrites in this thread would be spewing feathers....

[Beso]

They are completely in favour of bakeries turning away gay people for wedding cakes, so they should be in favour of restaurants turning away customers because they are professional liars.

Shes a ****ing press seceratary.....her job is to deal with the press, not to have an opinion....she has done nothing wrong...but she was still persecuted simply for working for trump.....

[Crimson Dynamo]

Given the person whom we are criticising is currently separating kids from their parents and locking them in cages, I'd like to think we're a little better.

i expect they kill and eat them afterwards in your story?


:rolleyes:

[Beso]

Given the person whom we are criticising is currently separating kids from their parents and locking them in cages, I'd like to think we're a little better.



Is she, is she really....show us the documents she has signed demanding trump follows her orders....


Wish i was a press seceratary....you seem to rule the world.:joker:

[The Slim Reaper]

Shes a ****ing press seceratary.....her job is to deal with the press, not to have an opinion....she has done nothing wrong...but she was still persecuted simply for working for trump.....

Political protest is actually enshrined in their constitution, and that's an interesting use of the word "persecuted". The story is actually better than on the surface; The owner discussed it with the staff and they made the decision together.

This administration is in favour of letting businesses refuse to serve people if they disagree with how they live their lives, so a restaurant refusing to serve someone who lies for trump everyday should be applauded by them, not criticised.

Do you see any hypocrisy in their stance vs gay people compared to their stance vs one of their own?

[Alf]

Ben Carson should go into this restaurant, it would be interesting to see the reaction if he was chucked out.

[Alf]

Maxine Waters has called on the public to harass members of Trumps administration.

[The Slim Reaper]

Maxine Waters has called on the public to harass members of Trumps administration.

Political protest is allowed and enshrined into the constitution. Trump has called for his supporters to actually physically harm people that don't like him, so there's that...

[arista]

Political protest is allowed and enshrined into the constitution. Trump has called for his supporters to actually physically harm people that don't like him, so there's that...


Yes but that was in March 2016.

This Action
has increased Trump's
polls.

And worse that Restaurant
has lost some trade

Trump is Proud Divider



Ref 11AM :CNN New Day HD Live

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes but that was in March 2016.

This Action
has increased Trump's
polls.

And worse that Restaurant
has lost some trade

Trump is Proud Divider



Ref 11AM :CNN New Day HD Live

I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was a Trump statute of limitations whereby anytime he calls for someone to be harmed, he gets a pass after some time passes. Maxine Walters didn't call for anyone to be harmed, just protested.

I'm sure any trade they have lost will be made up in new customers applauding her stance, but either way it's a private business, if they take actions that they feel are right but they hurt their own profit margins, then that's their choice.

[bots]

Political protest is allowed and enshrined into the constitution. Trump has called for his supporters to actually physically harm people that don't like him, so there's that...

She went further than requesting political protest though which plays in to Trumps hand

I don't see anything here about the death threats received by workers at restaurants with a similar name ... that to me is news worthy

[arista]

I'm sorry, I didn't realise there was a Trump statute of limitations whereby anytime he calls for someone to be harmed, he gets a pass after some time passes. Maxine Walters didn't call for anyone to be harmed, just protested.

I'm sure any trade they have lost will be made up in new customers applauding her stance, but either way it's a private business, if they take actions that they feel are right but they hurt their own profit margins, then that's their choice.


Yes but she is getting like Trump
her error.

[arista]

[Donald J. Trump.
Congresswoman Maxine Waters, an extraordinarily low IQ person,
has become, together with Nancy Pelosi, the Face of the Democrat Party.
She has just called for harm to supporters, of which there are many,
of the Make America Great Again movement.
Be careful what you wish for Max!
10:11 AM - 25 Jun 2018 ]

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes but she is getting like Trump
her error.

No she isn't. I love how these big tough conservatives are so proud to have a mean dude in the white house, then as soon as someone does something back to them, they all scream about civility and being victimised.

[Brillopad]

If you support the rights of a business to refuse service to someone else, then it's exactly the same.

Hardly the way to do business and likely to lose them a lot of it. Professionals they are not.

[The Slim Reaper]

Hardly the way to do business and likely to lose them a lot of it. Professionals they are not.

Isn't that what free market conservatism is about? I'd say anyone who owns their own restaurant is a professional, regardless of whether or not I agree/disagree with them politically. So for clarification, do you support a conservatives right not to serve gay people?

[Brillopad]

Isn't that what free market conservatism is about? I'd say anyone who owns their own restaurant is a professional, regardless of whether or not I agree/disagree with them politically. So for clarification, do you support a conservatives right not to serve gay people?

Were talking about serving people food so I think it's stupid not to. But if they want to risk losing business more fool them.

[Alf]

Isn't that what free market conservatism is about? I'd say anyone who owns their own restaurant is a professional, regardless of whether or not I agree/disagree with them politically. So for clarification, do you support a conservatives right not to serve gay people?Do we know that they were conservative? Was the reason they refused to make the cake, because they were conservative?

[The Slim Reaper]

Do we know that they were conservative? Was the reason they refused to make the cake, because they were conservative?

They are conservative Christians.

[arista]

No she isn't. I love how these big tough conservatives are so proud to have a mean dude in the white house, then as soon as someone does something back to them, they all scream about civility and being victimised.


Its being reported as getting at Trumps level
Debates on CNN HD / D.P BBC2HD/ FoxNewsHD
today

[The Slim Reaper]

Its being reported as getting at Trumps level
Debates on CNN HD / D.P BBC2HD/ FoxNewsHD
today

So what? I wouldn't mind but it's just a false equivalence to say it's at his level. The same guy that suggested 2nd amendment people deal with hillary clinton? Is this the same level we're talking about?

[arista]

So what? I wouldn't mind but it's just a false equivalence to say it's at his level. The same guy that suggested 2nd amendment people deal with hillary clinton? Is this the same level we're talking about?


No Corrupt H.Clinton was
a LEGIT target during the Election.
Backtracking serves no purpose,
Trump moves on , fast,
thats the way he is.

[The Slim Reaper]

No Corrupt H.Clinton was
a LEGIT target during the Election.
Backtracking serves no purpose,
Trump moves on , fast,
thats the way he is.

She wasn't even corrupt. The republicans spent most of Obama's 2nd term indulging in false investigations into her; when do we say enough is enough with the lies and BS? I don't even like her, but this it's just ridiculous how much people believe something just because they are being spoon fed.

Even if she was the most corrupt politician in the history of the US, you still don't suggest that 2nd amendment people deal with her.

[arista]

She wasn't even corrupt. The republicans spent most of Obama's 2nd term indulging in false investigations into her; when do we say enough is enough with the lies and BS? I don't even like her, but this it's just ridiculous how much people believe something just because they are being spoon fed.

Even if she was the most corrupt politician in the history of the US, you still don't suggest that 2nd amendment people deal with her.


The FBI
said her Emails were out of order.


And they were stupid putting her up for Election
As if they Elected her
as her Corrupt Sex offender Man Husband
Former President would be back.


H.Clinton never went to Jail
so she is lucky

[The Slim Reaper]

The FBI
said her Emails were out of order.


And they were stupid putting her up for Election
As if they Elected her
as her Corrupt Sex offender Man Husband
Former President would be back.


H.Clinton never went to Jail
so she is lucky

They said she shouldn't have used her own email address for work business. Jared Kushner was also found out to be using his personal email for the same thing a few months ago. Colin POwell also used to use his own email address for work business too.

That's not corruption though Arista, it's just bad practice. That's it, is that the height of her corruption?

She was up for election, not her husband. Why would her husband's past sexual issues be an issue but Trumps open and admitted sexual assault were not? Double standards being spoon fed to you in the form of talking points by people taking you for an idiot

[Crimson Dynamo]

They said she shouldn't have used her own email address for work business. Jared Kushner was also found out to be using his personal email for the same thing a few months ago. Colin POwell also used to use his own email address for work business too.

That's not corruption though Arista, it's just bad practice. That's it, is that the height of her corruption?

She was up for election, not her husband. Why would her husband's past sexual issues be an issue but Trumps open and admitted sexual assault were not? Double standards being spoon fed to you in the form of talking points by people taking you for an idiot

what open and admitted sexual assaults?


:conf:

[Tom4784]

It's hilarious how the Trump administration and his supporters are responding to this and how hypocritical it is. A precedent has been set that companies can discriminate against gay people by using their religion as an excuse (A weak excuse, by the way, if someone defies testaments against eating shellfish and wearing multiple kinds of materials at once but adheres to passages saying that homsexuality is a sin that it's their choice to follow those passages and not disregard them like they do the rest.) so no one can complain if this twat gets thrown out of a restaurant because she's the spokesperson for the worst president the US has ever seen

If you're okay with people rejecting custom from gay people then you cannot object to this without being a massive hypocrite.

[The Slim Reaper]

what open and admitted sexual assaults?


:conf:

Going up to people and kissing and/or grabbing them by the pussy is sexual assault.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Going up to people and kissing and/or grabbing them by the pussy is sexual assault.

:facepalm:

[Alf]

It's hilarious how the Trump administration and his supporters are responding to this and how hypocritical it is. A precedent has been set that companies can discriminate against gay people by using their religion as an excuse (A weak excuse, by the way, if someone defies testaments against eating shellfish and wearing multiple kinds of materials at once but adheres to passages saying that homsexuality is a sin that it's their choice to follow those passages and not disregard them like they do the rest.) so no one can complain if this twat gets thrown out of a restaurant because she's the spokesperson for the worst president the US has ever seen

If you're okay with people rejecting custom from gay people then you cannot object to this without being a massive hypocrite.The cake business doesn't sell gay wedding cakes. This woman was ejected from a restaurant because of her job.

[The Slim Reaper]

:facepalm:

What's your issue?

[Alf]

Going up to people and kissing and/or grabbing them by the pussy is sexual assault.But talking about it with the lads isn't.

[The Slim Reaper]

But talking about it with the lads isn't.

It's the act itself which is the offence; if you brag about it afterwards you've still committed the offence. He is currently embroiled in an important charge against him made by a former contestant on the apprentice that's in the process of progressing through the courts, which may force the surrendering of all the tapes that are currently hidden away by Mark Burnett (creator of the apprentice). It is well known there is some severe stuff on these tapes.

But hey, maybe he was just talking with the lads, and all these women have made stuff up, including his former wife.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's the act itself which is the offence; if you brag about it afterwards you've still committed the offence. He is currently embroiled in an important charge against him made by a former contestant on the apprentice that's in the process of progressing through the courts, which may force the surrendering of all the tapes that are currently hidden away by Mark Burnett (creator of the apprentice). It is well known there is some severe stuff on these tapes.

But hey, maybe he was just talking with the lads, and all these women have made stuff up, including his former wife.

I dont think you would make a great detective

[Alf]

It's the act itself which is the offence; if you brag about it afterwards you've still committed the offence. He is currently embroiled in an important charge against him made by a former contestant on the apprentice that's in the process of progressing through the courts, which may force the surrendering of all the tapes that are currently hidden away by Mark Burnett (creator of the apprentice). It is well known there is some severe stuff on these tapes.

But hey, maybe he was just talking with the lads, and all these women have made stuff up, including his former wife.But you say Trump is liar, so why would you believe him when he's bragging about that?

[Beso]

It's the act itself which is the offence; if you brag about it afterwards you've still committed the offence. He is currently embroiled in an important charge against him made by a former contestant on the apprentice that's in the process of progressing through the courts, which may force the surrendering of all the tapes that are currently hidden away by Mark Burnett (creator of the apprentice). It is well known there is some severe stuff on these tapes.

But hey, maybe he was just talking with the lads, and all these women have made stuff up, including his former wife.

Can you post links to this supposed severe stuff?

I would like to check its believability please.

[The Slim Reaper]

Can you post links to this supposed severe stuff?

I would like to check its believability please.

Mark Burnett is the only one who has the tapes, but those that worked on the show know there are some extremely unsavoury things on them

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-the-apprentice-us-racist-comments-african-americans-jews-recorded-meetings-former-a7986081.html

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-sexual-assault-accuser-apprentice-tapes-909013

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/donald-trump-apprentice-outtakes-tape-tom-arnold

[The Slim Reaper]

I dont think you would make a great detective

Wow, another great contribution to add to your list of other great contributions.

[The Slim Reaper]

But you say Trump is liar, so why would you believe him when he's bragging about that?

Because there are women who've accused him of sexual assault (including his wife) from way before the access hollywood tapes were released.

[Alf]

Because there are women who've accused him of sexual assault (including his wife) from way before the access hollywood tapes were released.So if women make those accusations about a billionaire, they must be true?

[Tom4784]

The cake business doesn't sell gay wedding cakes. This woman was ejected from a restaurant because of her job.

The business rejected them ultimately because of their sexuality.

You can't twist this situation into being different than the cake situation, if that situation was fine and dandy then no one who believes that the bakery situation was resolved correctly can complain about this at all.

[The Slim Reaper]

So if women make those accusations about a billionaire, they must be true?

If multiple women independently make claims of sexual assault against someone, then I think any sane person would admit there may be truth.

Bill Gates is a billionaire, how many women have made sexual assault complaints against him? Has his own wife accused him of rape too?

Alf, what is your opinion?

[Alf]

The business rejected them ultimately because of their sexuality.

You can't twist this situation into being different than the cake situation, if that situation was fine and dandy then no one who believes that the bakery situation was resolved correctly can complain about this at all.No, they just don't sell gay wedding cakes. So just go to a shop that does.

If I went into a shop, believing it to sell bacon, and then they told me they didn't, I'd just go elswhere, I certainly wouldn't call Reuters.

But if I worked at Asda, and I decided to go to a restaurant, and the owner kicked me out because they don't like Asda, then I'd think that they are a see you next Tuesday.

[arista]

Going up to people and kissing and/or grabbing them by the pussy is sexual assault.


Sure
but that was well before Trump was in Power
12 years back.


Bill Clinton was President
and doing Sexual Assualt

[Alf]

If multiple women independently make claims of sexual assault against someone, then I think any sane person would admit there may be truth.

Bill Gates is a billionaire, how many women have made sexual assault complaints against him? Has his own wife accused him of rape too?

Alf, what is your opinion?I don't know about Gates, never looked into it, although I see him more as a geek than someone constantly around different woman.

[arista]

The cake business doesn't sell gay wedding cakes. This woman was ejected from a restaurant because of her job.


Yes
its getting President Trump more support
Again

[The Slim Reaper]

I don't know about Gates, never looked into it, although I see him more as a geek than someone constantly around different woman.

What's your opinion on trump and his accusers?

[Alf]

What's your opinion on trump and his accusers?Well his kids have stayed with him, and they'd know more about it than me.

[Tom4784]

No, they just don't sell gay wedding cakes. So just go to a shop that does.

If I went into a shop, believing it to sell bacon, and then they told me they didn't, I'd just go elswhere, I certainly wouldn't call Reuters.

But if I worked at Asda, and I decided to go to a restaurant, and the owner kicked me out because they don't like Asda, then I'd think that they are a see you next Tuesday.

They sold custom cakes to the spec of the customer. They rejected the customer because of their attitudes towards homsexuality.

Again, any justification you have to say on it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day this restaurant is as entitlted to reject Sanders' custom as that bakery was to reject custom on the grounds of their opposition to homsexuality.

You can't pick and choose, If you agree with the bakery's right to refuse custom then you can't oppose this situation. The precedent has been set.

[Alf]

What's your opinion on trump and his accusers?They're all lying and just after his money.

There you go, there's an opinion, now what happens?

[The Slim Reaper]

They're all lying and just after his money.

There you go, there's an opinion, now what happens?

Congratulations, you've taken the first step towards being a constructive poster.

Come 'ere you big goofball. I can't stay mad at you

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/rise-of-the-guardians-role-play/images/1/18/Group_hug%21.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150613035806

[Crimson Dynamo]

Mark Burnett is the only one who has the tapes, but those that worked on the show know there are some extremely unsavoury things on them

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-the-apprentice-us-racist-comments-african-americans-jews-recorded-meetings-former-a7986081.html

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-sexual-assault-accuser-apprentice-tapes-909013

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/donald-trump-apprentice-outtakes-tape-tom-arnold



some person makes a claim from 11 years ago trying to make a buck?

puleeze

reaching or what

[Beso]

Mark Burnett is the only one who has the tapes, but those that worked on the show know there are some extremely unsavoury things on them

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-the-apprentice-us-racist-comments-african-americans-jews-recorded-meetings-former-a7986081.html

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-sexual-assault-accuser-apprentice-tapes-909013

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/20/donald-trump-apprentice-outtakes-tape-tom-arnold

Oh thanks..ive judged its believability....sorry but without the tapes i dont believe it.

[The Slim Reaper]

Oh thanks..ive judged its believability....sorry but without the tapes i dont believe it.

Eh? There's nothing to believe. The point I made earlier in the thread was that one of his accusers has been given the go-ahead to take her case forward, and part of the discovery involved in this could/should lead to the releasing of these tapes. I wasn't saying the fact they exist is any evidence of anything.

[kirklancaster]

The business rejected them ultimately because of their sexuality.

You can't twist this situation into being different than the cake situation, if that situation was fine and dandy then no one who believes that the bakery situation was resolved correctly can complain about this at all.

This is just blatantly UNTRUE. The bakery served other Gay customers but objected to the message on this specific cake order.

[Tom4784]

This is just blatantly UNTRUE. The bakery served other Gay customers but objected to the message on this specific cake order.

Yes, they rejected the order based on their homophobic views. Your trying to change the wording but you can't change the meaning.

You can't agree with people rejecting customers because of their homophobia and then oppose someone rejecting custom from a government official because they disagree with the direction the government is going.

That's picking and choosing. If you agree with the former, you can't oppose the latter.

[Maru]

Imo, if we just keep up with the -phobics, -ist labels... that will lead to the opposite intended result come election time. Those attitudes are already starting to backfire and will lead to those folk who act with indignance to find themselves further isolated...

There are all kinds of worldviews in the world we share with other ppl and we can focus on only just one, and probably inconvenient to have to bother with anyone elses, but I feel like that is living with head in the clouds and only harmful to that person /w a narrow view. Just because we see it our way doesn't mean there aren't other ppl who see another... bigotry to me is being spiteful/venomous towards others when we refuse to accept ppl who outside our own culture. The business owner was following his deeply held religious beliefs... and there is no indication his purpose was malicious here. Just to reiterate, but to try to force our own worldviews will only lead to activists further isolating themselves... will only make them miserable as ppl will eventually move on.

I'm fine w the owner kicking out Sanders. We share the world with other ppl, it is not all about us... to live in a world where we have to only accomodate to one group though is not only an unrealistic way of thinking, but is a one-sided worldview. Anyway, the more I hear this rhetoric, the less I care... eventually just won't bother with it anymore to assist those movements which have become so self-referential. It is just not worth it, pleasing those folk anymore. I believe in treating people with humility and tolerance.. not venomous rhetoric.

[arista]

"Anyway, the more I hear this rhetoric, the less I care."

Yes there is so much of it, Maru

ref: CNN HD and FoxNewsHD.

[Tom4784]

Imo, if we just keep up with the -phobics, -ist labels... that will lead to the opposite intended result come election time. Those attitudes are already starting to backfire and will lead to those folk who act with indignance to find themselves further isolated...

There are all kinds of worldviews in the world we share with other ppl and we can focus on only just one, and probably inconvenient to have to bother with anyone elses, but I feel like that is living with head in the clouds and only harmful to that person /w a narrow view. Just because we see it our way doesn't mean there aren't other ppl who see another... bigotry to me is being spiteful/venomous towards others when we refuse to accept ppl who outside our own culture. The business owner was following his deeply held religious beliefs... and there is no indication his purpose was malicious here. Just to reiterate, but to try to force our own worldviews will only lead to activists further isolating themselves... will only make them miserable as ppl will eventually move on.

I'm fine w the owner kicking out Sanders. We share the world with other ppl, it is not all about us... to live in a world where we have to only accomodate to one group though is not only an unrealistic way of thinking, but is a one-sided worldview. Anyway, the more I hear this rhetoric, the less I care... eventually just won't bother with it anymore to assist those movements which have become so self-referential. It is just not worth it, pleasing those folk anymore. I believe in treating people with humility and tolerance.. not venomous rhetoric.


I really dislike this thought process. It downplays the struggles of people who aren't the majority by making out that we must appease the majority and that's wrong.

What you are endorsing is appeasement.

[Maru]

I really dislike this thought process. It downplays the struggles of people who aren't the majority by making out that we must appease the majority and that's wrong.

What you are endorsing is appeasement.

Appeasement to you maybe. However, for me I consider that examples of compromise and respect for another person's cultural practices. Two very different ways of grounding and engineering a perspective. Not only was their position there domineering, but it is maliscious and cruel to force other people to trash their private practices in order to force their own way. Life is all about give and take. We can't just take take take anytime we feel disrespected or like we're entitled something. That's how we've come to this point in our culture, is this lack of humility on both ends, which has led us to this point where we've politicized every issue rather than finding new ways to not only tolerate the other, but build a bridge.

This couple could have gone to a different baker. It would have shown some real skin/maturity for them to have taken the high road here, but they expect empathy without giving any in return for the position they put the baker in. Securalism may be on the rise, but those who adhere devoutly to their their religious vocation can't simply drop practices willy-nilly. We can't separate the action of the baker from his private practice... unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, any religion. Simply put, this is a regressive move for our society when there's little to no room for respecting the private practices of other people's cultures/way-of-life. Whatever respect they may claim to have otherwise is pretty much conditional. We will find no agreement here as I see this as simple bigotry disguised as a pursuit for "tolerance"/justice...

[Maru]

Well, chicken poop...

Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/32391/backlash-against-red-hen-booting-sarah-sanders-james-barrett

Backlash Against The Red Hen For Booting Sarah Sanders Gets Crazy

https://i.imgur.com/WBZxeSt.jpg

Backlash against the Red Hen restaurant in Lexington, Virginia got a little out of control, and a little gross, on Tuesday, culminating in one 51-year-old protester getting arrested after throwing "chicken poop" in the general direction of the Sarah Huckabee Sanders-persecuting restaurant.

The fallout from the decision of the Red Hen's owner to ask Sanders to leave because she works for the Trump administration, and then allegedly helping to stir up a protest against Sanders mostly-liberal family afterward, continues.

The owner, Stephanie Wilkinson, has resigned from her role of director of a local non-profit group designed to promote businesses in the city as a result of the distraction she now presents. "Considering the events of the past weekend, Stephanie felt it best, that for the continued success of Main Street Lexington, she should step aside," the president of the board said.

On Tuesday, Wilkinson's restaurant, which has remained closed since the incident, was visited by a group of protesters who were outraged by the anti-Trumper bigotry. One of those protesters, a West Virginia man, is facing charges after allegedly throwing chicken poop at the restaurant.

WSET (http://wset.com/news/local/west-virginia-man-charged-after-police-said-he-threw-feces-at-the-red-hen) reports on the rather raucous group of people, which, along with the feces-flinging West Virginian, included one guy carrying a sign declaring "homos are full of demons":


Tuesday, people turned to the street with their signs in hand to protest the restaurant, which has remained closed since the incident.

Outside the Red Hen people were chanting and held homemade signs, Corey Stewart campaign signs and American and Make America Great Again flags.

Another man held signs that said "Homos are full of demons" and "Unless they repent Let God Burn Them (LGBT) 2 Peter 2:6."


The West Virginian, Reginald Scott Lee, 51, "was arrested and charged with littering and disorderly conduct," NBC4 (https://www.nbc4i.com/news/u-s-world/man-accused-of-throwing-chicken-poop-at-red-hen-restaurant/1268639940) reports.

Some video of the protest as well as photographic evidence of the gross protest material below:

1011715766838841344

1011716387457421315

The firestorm over the Red Hen began when Sanders posted a brief account about her ill-treatment at the hands of Wilkinson:

1010536237457924096

Sanders handled the ugly situation with class, which Wilkinson later confirmed. The Daily Wire reports (https://www.dailywire.com/news/32238/trump-unloads-restaurant-booted-sarah-sanders-james-barrett):


"I have a business, and I want the business to thrive. This feels like the moment in our democracy when people have to make uncomfortable actions and decisions to uphold their morals," Wilkinson told the Post. Several of her employees, she said, are gay and disagreed with Trump's call for a ban on transgender troops in the military. "Tell me what you want me to do. I can ask her to leave," she says she told her staff. "They said yes."

After telling the press secretary who she was, Wilkinson said she asked for her to come out to the patio, where she "explained that the restaurant has certain standards that I feel it has to uphold, such as honesty, and compassion, and cooperation. I said, 'I'd like to ask you to leave.'" Sanders respectfully agreed to leave and offered to pay for the food that was being prepared. "I said, no," Wilkinson said. "It’s on the house


But that was not the full story.

"There’s a part of that story that has not been told," Sanders' father Mike Huckabee told (https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/mike-huckabee-red-hen-owner-followed-sarah-sanders-family-across-street-heckled) Laura Ingraham over the weekend. "Once Sarah and her family left — of course Sarah was asked to please vacate — Sarah and her husband just went home, they’d had enough. But, the rest of her family went across the street to a different restaurant. The owner of the Red Hen — nobody’s told this — then followed them across the street, called people and organized a protest, yelling and screaming at them from outside the other restaurant and creating this scene.

The incident has set off a series of debates over the increasing degree of incivility of protesters and the personal harassment of political figures, which Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters infamously called for after the targeting of Sanders.

I don't know that I'm willing to take Mike Huckabee's account at face-value. No reason to really disbelieve him I guess, but he's still a politician and it is his daughter, so maybe he is drumming it up...

The whole chicken poop thing is the dumps though. Also nice, some real homemade homophobia...

Outside the Red Hen people were chanting and held homemade signs, Corey Stewart campaign signs and American and Make America Great Again flags.

Another man held signs that said "Homos are full of demons" and "Unless they repent Let God Burn Them (LGBT) 2 Peter 2:6."

I need to remember to invest stock in the Arts & Crafts industry.

[bots]

Sounds to me like a bunch of unpleasant types spoiling for a fight on both sides :shrug:

[kirklancaster]

Appeasement to you maybe. However, for me I consider that examples of compromise and respect for another person's cultural practices. Two very different ways of grounding and engineering a perspective. Not only was their position there domineering, but it is maliscious and cruel to force other people to trash their private practices in order to force their own way. Life is all about give and take. We can't just take take take anytime we feel disrespected or like we're entitled something. That's how we've come to this point in our culture, is this lack of humility on both ends, which has led us to this point where we've politicized every issue rather than finding new ways to not only tolerate the other, but build a bridge.

This couple could have gone to a different baker. It would have shown some real skin/maturity for them to have taken the high road here, but they expect empathy without giving any in return for the position they put the baker in. Securalism may be on the rise, but those who adhere devoutly to their their religious vocation can't simply drop practices willy-nilly. We can't separate the action of the baker from his private practice... unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, any religion. Simply put, this is a regressive move for our society when there's little to no room for respecting the private practices of other people's cultures/way-of-life. Whatever respect they may claim to have otherwise is pretty much conditional. We will find no agreement here as I see this as simple bigotry disguised as a pursuit for "tolerance"/justice...

:clap1::clap1::clap1: AWESOME.

[Northern Monkey]

Well like was said with the Irish bakers.They have the right to refuse service to who they like and the market will decide whether they agree by voting with their wallets....

It definitely seems like they are with this place :laugh:

[Underscore]

Republicans get pissy at the restaurant...

But didn't they lap it up when someone refused service to Joe Biden a few years back?

[Twosugars]

Appeasement to you maybe. However, for me I consider that examples of compromise and respect for another person's cultural practices. Two very different ways of grounding and engineering a perspective. Not only was their position there domineering, but it is maliscious and cruel to force other people to trash their private practices in order to force their own way. Life is all about give and take. We can't just take take take anytime we feel disrespected or like we're entitled something. That's how we've come to this point in our culture, is this lack of humility on both ends, which has led us to this point where we've politicized every issue rather than finding new ways to not only tolerate the other, but build a bridge.

This couple could have gone to a different baker. It would have shown some real skin/maturity for them to have taken the high road here, but they expect empathy without giving any in return for the position they put the baker in. Securalism may be on the rise, but those who adhere devoutly to their their religious vocation can't simply drop practices willy-nilly. We can't separate the action of the baker from his private practice... unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, any religion. Simply put, this is a regressive move for our society when there's little to no room for respecting the private practices of other people's cultures/way-of-life. Whatever respect they may claim to have otherwise is pretty much conditional. We will find no agreement here as I see this as simple bigotry disguised as a pursuit for "tolerance"/justice...

Then we should make it clear in constitution or wherever that religion trumps equality and be done with it.
Would you defend if someone had a religion that made him discriminate racially? And refuse to bake cakes for black people? Would you deploy the same arguments how those seeking equality disturb, distress and don't care?
Also, why do you say "there's little to no room for respecting the private practices of other people's cultures/way of life"? :conf:

[Twosugars]

Republicans get pissy at the restaurant...

But didn't they lap it up when someone refused service to Joe Biden a few years back?

They did :laugh:
Can't make it up can you.

[Beso]

Republicans get pissy at the restaurant...

But didn't they lap it up when someone refused service to Joe Biden a few years back?

I dont know..do you have a list of the pissed of republicans for both events to compare names?

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh they are losing business now due to their petty, vindictive act

oh well

[Twosugars]

oh they are losing business now due to their petty, vindictive act

oh well

What I said about no gay cakes baker

[The Slim Reaper]

Appeasement to you maybe. However, for me I consider that examples of compromise and respect for another person's cultural practices. Two very different ways of grounding and engineering a perspective. Not only was their position there domineering, but it is maliscious and cruel to force other people to trash their private practices in order to force their own way. Life is all about give and take. We can't just take take take anytime we feel disrespected or like we're entitled something. That's how we've come to this point in our culture, is this lack of humility on both ends, which has led us to this point where we've politicized every issue rather than finding new ways to not only tolerate the other, but build a bridge.

This couple could have gone to a different baker. It would have shown some real skin/maturity for them to have taken the high road here, but they expect empathy without giving any in return for the position they put the baker in. Securalism may be on the rise, but those who adhere devoutly to their their religious vocation can't simply drop practices willy-nilly. We can't separate the action of the baker from his private practice... unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, any religion. Simply put, this is a regressive move for our society when there's little to no room for respecting the private practices of other people's cultures/way-of-life. Whatever respect they may claim to have otherwise is pretty much conditional. We will find no agreement here as I see this as simple bigotry disguised as a pursuit for "tolerance"/justice...

3CPjWd4MUXs

Why is it the minority that always has to bend their will to make sure the majority remain comfortable? Why couldn't black people just be happy to use different water fountains, and was their challenge to the hierarchy also bigotry disguised as a pursuit for tolerance, in your language?

[Crimson Dynamo]

What I said about no gay cakes baker

well i guess upsetting 5 % of the potential customer base is not as bad as 50%

as in this case

[Twosugars]

well i guess upsetting 5 % of the potential customer base is not as bad as 50%

as in this case

Agree, far too many

[bots]

Just seems like a load of hot headed people on both sides. I mean the woman is saying she is standing up for the rights of her staff, but her actions have at least temporarily closed the restaurant, and as employees get income from tips, that's at least 1 week without any pay, so she is doing them more harm than good.

As for the protesters, there are clearly a few nutters amongst their ranks.

[Brillopad]

They did :laugh:
Can't make it up can you.

I have lost count how many times I have had to say that about ridiculous comments and total hypocrisy from the other side. :hee:

[GiRTh]

Republicans get pissy at the restaurant...

But didn't they lap it up when someone refused service to Joe Biden a few years back?Not exactly the same but the Republican response did involve alot of gloating.

[Tom4784]

Appeasement to you maybe. However, for me I consider that examples of compromise and respect for another person's cultural practices. Two very different ways of grounding and engineering a perspective. Not only was their position there domineering, but it is maliscious and cruel to force other people to trash their private practices in order to force their own way. Life is all about give and take. We can't just take take take anytime we feel disrespected or like we're entitled something. That's how we've come to this point in our culture, is this lack of humility on both ends, which has led us to this point where we've politicized every issue rather than finding new ways to not only tolerate the other, but build a bridge.

This couple could have gone to a different baker. It would have shown some real skin/maturity for them to have taken the high road here, but they expect empathy without giving any in return for the position they put the baker in. Securalism may be on the rise, but those who adhere devoutly to their their religious vocation can't simply drop practices willy-nilly. We can't separate the action of the baker from his private practice... unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, any religion. Simply put, this is a regressive move for our society when there's little to no room for respecting the private practices of other people's cultures/way-of-life. Whatever respect they may claim to have otherwise is pretty much conditional. We will find no agreement here as I see this as simple bigotry disguised as a pursuit for "tolerance"/justice...

Nah, it's appeasement.

[Tom4784]

Well, chicken poop...

Source: https://www.dailywire.com/news/32391/backlash-against-red-hen-booting-sarah-sanders-james-barrett



I don't know that I'm willing to take Mike Huckabee's account at face-value. No reason to really disbelieve him I guess, but he's still a politician and it is his daughter, so maybe he is drumming it up...

The whole chicken poop thing is the dumps though. Also nice, some real homemade homophobia...



I need to remember to invest stock in the Arts & Crafts industry.

How pleasant these Trump supporters are.....

[Maru]

Then we should make it clear in constitution or wherever that religion trumps equality and be done with it.
Would you defend if someone had a religion that made him discriminate racially? And refuse to bake cakes for black people? Would you deploy the same arguments how those seeking equality disturb, distress and don't care?
Also, why do you say "there's little to no room for respecting the private practices of other people's cultures/way of life"? :conf:

Religion is protected in the Constitution, that's why they had won the ruling. Escaping religious persecution has always been a huge factor for people immigrating to the States.

Race itself is a protected class so no, that wouldn't be expected to fly. Eventually sexual preference will make itself into there as well. The baker though didn't discriminate against them on the basis of their homosexuality. The disagreement was that their practice (same-sex marriage) came into conflict with his practices, so he couldn't play a part in that ritual. It would be like if someone walked in and wanted food for a cake featuring a celebrating eating and devouring a specific animal and the baker would maybe have to decline because the animal was a spiritual God, etc. The concept of Man+Woman is a sacred union in Christianity and marriage is considered a religious practice, just as sex is considered a sacred practice. That's why we don't really see any orthodox Christians working at adult sex shops. (Editx9000)

Anyway, it would be difficult to find a reasonably-sized religion that discriminates on the basis of race. Just because, how else would that religion thrive if it's narrowing that much it's potential pool of worshipers... :laugh: It would be a failed experiment at best...

[The Slim Reaper]

Religion is protected in the Constitution, that's why they had won the ruling. Escaping religious persecution has always been a huge factor for people immigrating to the States.

Race itself is a protected class so no, that wouldn't be expected to fly. Eventually sexual preference will make itself into there as well. The baker though didn't discriminate against them on the basis of their homosexuality. The disagreement was that their practice (same-sex marriage) came into conflict with his practices, so he couldn't play a part in that ritual. It would be like if someone walked in and wanted food for a cake featuring a celebrating eating and devouring a specific animal and the baker would maybe have to decline because the animal was a spiritual God, etc. The concept of Man+Woman is a sacred union in Christianity and marriage is considered a religious practice, just as sex is considered a sacred practice. That's why we don't really see any orthodox Christians working at adult sex shops. (Editx9000)

Anyway, it would be difficult to find a reasonably-sized religion that discriminates on the basis of race. Just because, how else would that religion thrive if it's narrowing that much it's potential pool of worshipers... :laugh: It would be a failed experiment at best...

Race only became a protected class fairly recently, and the same bible you say that sanctifies marriage for Christians is the same one that provided the go-ahead for the Christian slave owners. Don't you find it curious, that there are so many laws and rules in the bible regarding how to live, and yet it's only a couple of the discriminatory beliefs that line up with their own prejudices that they really cry foul at? There's no historical shame in that either; most of modern history has seen homosexuals and different races be treated appallingly by all of our ancestors, regardless of what god they did/didn't believe in. Let's be honest here, Christians defending this issue aren't doing it because Christianity enforces it, they're using Christianity as a shield to protect their own bigotry.

Marriage isn't a commandment, and yet bearing false witness is. Why do American Christians have no problem with lying and protecting liars, but yet are too offended to make a cake?

[Maru]

Race only became a protected class fairly recently, and the same bible you say that sanctifies marriage for Christians is the same one that provided the go-ahead for the Christian slave owners. Don't you find it curious, that there are so many laws and rules in the bible regarding how to live, and yet it's only a couple of the discriminatory beliefs that line up with their own prejudices that they really cry foul at? There's no historical shame in that either; most of modern history has seen homosexuals and different races be treated appallingly by all of our ancestors, regardless of what god they did/didn't believe in. Let's be honest here, Christians defending this issue aren't doing it because Christianity enforces it, they're using Christianity as a shield to protect their own bigotry.

Marriage isn't a commandment, and yet bearing false witness is. Why do American Christians have no problem with lying and protecting liars, but yet are too offended to make a cake?

There we're focusing on the contrast in beliefs, which fall under Freedom of Speech. What I am talking about here is a conflict in practices. i.e. a marriage ceremony

[The Slim Reaper]

There we're focusing on the contrast in beliefs, which fall under Freedom of Speech. What I am talking about here is a conflict in practices. i.e. a marriage ceremony

That doesn't make any sense to me. I've read that sentence 5 times, and I still can't decipher what you mean. Any chance you can elaborate for a dumb plebe like me?

[Maru]

That doesn't make any sense to me. I've read that sentence 5 times, and I still can't decipher what you mean. Any chance you can elaborate for a dumb plebe like me?

I don't know, you keep bringing up things unrelated to what is being actually being discussed. We're not having a discussion about what Christians do or don't believe. Their speech is protected by Freedom of Speech. However, for example, they can still be penalized by the law or kicked from a private etablishment if they are causing problems for other customers. (i.e. loud homophobic man screaming scriptures at other patrons).

The practice of marriage is what is causing the conflict, as they are expecting the baker to participate in that ritual despite well-knowing it is in direct conflict with their religion (however they believe), and the patrons in this case want the courts to compell their practice. Per Freedom of Religion, the courts/govt cannot interfere in that practice. If the basis were them simply being homosexual customers, then the ruling would've been very different...

[Beso]

You cant swear on the bible then deny ones religious beliefs.

[The Slim Reaper]

I don't know, you keep bringing up things unrelated to what is being actually being discussed. We're not having a discussion about what Christians do or don't believe. Their speech is protected by Freedom of Speech. However, for example, they can still be penalized by the law or kicked from a private etablishment if they are causing problems for other customers. (i.e. loud homophobic man screaming scriptures at other patrons).

The practice of marriage is what is causing the conflict, as they are expecting the baker to participate in that ritual despite well-knowing it is in direct conflict with their religion (however they believe), and the patrons in this case want the courts to compell their practice. Per Freedom of Religion, the courts/govt cannot interfere in that practice. If the basis were them simply being homosexual customers, then the ruling would've been very different...


OK, I strongly disagree with your interpretations of the events that have taken place, and your desire to discuss religious practice/freedom in such a rose-tinted manner, but we'll never agree on this topic so rather than us both spending the next hour writing the same things at each other in 5 different ways, I'm happy to leave it there.

[Maru]

OK, I strongly disagree with your interpretations of the events that have taken place, and your desire to discuss religious practice/freedom in such a rose-tinted manner, but we'll never agree on this topic so rather than us both spending the next hour writing the same things at each other in 5 different ways, I'm happy to leave it there.

Thank you

[Twosugars]

Race only became a protected class fairly recently, and the same bible you say that sanctifies marriage for Christians is the same one that provided the go-ahead for the Christian slave owners. Don't you find it curious, that there are so many laws and rules in the bible regarding how to live, and yet it's only a couple of the discriminatory beliefs that line up with their own prejudices that they really cry foul at? There's no historical shame in that either; most of modern history has seen homosexuals and different races be treated appallingly by all of our ancestors, regardless of what god they did/didn't believe in. Let's be honest here, Christians defending this issue aren't doing it because Christianity enforces it, they're using Christianity as a shield to protect their own bigotry.

Marriage isn't a commandment, and yet bearing false witness is. Why do American Christians have no problem with lying and protecting liars, but yet are too offended to make a cake?

excellent stuff
religious freedom is just something they hide behind; they discard Christian teachings if it doesn't suit them (love thy neighbour and others)
Most Christian denominations for example are appalled at war-mongering and naked greed and inequality of Anglo-American model of capitalism. Do so-called conservative Christians pay any attention to that? Nah.
But homosexuals? Yeah, that's the danger worth focusing on. :fist:
The whole idiotic battle against gay marriage, I mean, anybody with any sense would see that gay marriage promotes social stability by binding 5% minority into stable relationships in law. Why would any conservative have a problem with that? It's good for individuals, it's good for society and the state. But no, let's kick up the fuss because they're different, they're not us. How ****ing short-sighted is that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Are we really trying to take apart a pathetic middle Eastern cult like its something?

[Maru]

excellent stuff
religious freedom is just something they hide behind; they discard Christian teachings if it doesn't suit them (love thy neighbour and others)
Most Christian denominations for example are appalled at war-mongering and naked greed and inequality of Anglo-American model of capitalism. Do so-called conservative Christians pay any attention to that? Nah.
But homosexuals? Yeah, that's the danger worth focusing on. :fist:
The whole idiotic battle against gay marriage, I mean, anybody with any sense would see that gay marriage promotes social stability by binding 5% minority into stable relationships in law. Why would any conservative have a problem with that? It's good for individuals, it's good for society and the state. But no, let's kick up the fuss because they're different, they're not us. How ****ing short-sighted is that?

I think in the US, our hardest lines from the past have gradually worked themselves over since those years. Someone who is religious is now more capable of accepting that other people may choose to live differently than in years past. Even when t is deep contrast with their beliefs. I don't think that's necessarily religion changing itself, so much, as our culture has shifted quite a bit thanks to the issue of diversity. People are now have to accept that this is the world they buy into if they support the freedoms they do have, as they have to accept others the right to live that as well. Anyway, I overwhelmingly agree the civil rights era made us a better society, but it also made us more open (see: 60's) of other people who choose to live differently... this newest strain of authorianism surging from the extreme left (and right) is the opposite of that growth in my opinion.

Personally, while I support these freedoms remaining intact, I have major issues with Republicans that govern from the pulpit and base most of their support and decision-making on religion. In the last primary, my candidate went into a run-off. The other was a Christian pastor. Anyway, my candidate was open to allowing room for criticism of modern Christianity and showing tolerance, including their stances on gay marriage, but these evangelical groups were peeved off and started to launch smear campaigns against him both online and through paper mail... my candidate ended up winning the primary, so he will be on the Republican ballot come November.

I don't trust these types of evangelicals, but my issue is not their beliefs, my issue is that these are government officials and they should be representing all groups under them, not just those folk who share their religious denomination. Anyway, I can feel one way about our religious freedoms and still have many problems with it. I don't fault others for having their own pickle with religion.

[Maru]

Are we really trying to take apart a pathetic middle Eastern cult like its something?

I must be the LT whisperer. I knew you would eventually make your way over and post something along these lines... :laugh: I'm crap at predicting weather though...

[kirklancaster]

She wasn't even corrupt. The republicans spent most of Obama's 2nd term indulging in false investigations into her; when do we say enough is enough with the lies and BS? I don't even like her, but this it's just ridiculous how much people believe something just because they are being spoon fed.

Even if she was the most corrupt politician in the history of the US, you still don't suggest that 2nd amendment people deal with her.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: Let's meet up - but QUICKLY - I have a bridge in London and a tower in Paris which I want to sell you.

[The Slim Reaper]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: Let's meet up - but QUICKLY - I have a bridge in London and a tower in Paris which I want to sell you.

Without the use of insane conspiracy theories, explain her corruption.

[Twosugars]

Are we really trying to take apart a pathetic middle Eastern cult like its something?
yes bc it's shaped the Western civilisation and still is the main philosophical influence.
Besides, I'd not call it a pathetic cult. I abandoned religion myself, but can't deny that Jesus brought "the cult" forward in a big way. I have no quarrel with Jesus's teachings (forget about Old Testament stuff tho, that's bigots charter).
Take away the supernatural stuff, and Jesus becomes a serious social reformer and philosopher. I have utmost respect for the man.

[The Slim Reaper]

yes bc it's shaped the Western civilisation and still is the main philosophical influence.
Besides, I'd not call it a pathetic cult. I abandoned religion myself, but can't deny that Jesus brought "the cult" forward in a big way. I have no quarrel with Jesus's teachings (forget about Old Testament stuff tho, that's bigots charter).
Take away the supernatural stuff, and Jesus becomes a serious social reformer and philosopher. I have utmost respect for the man.

Lets not go overboard here, and Jesus himself had nothing to do with bringing the cult forward. For over a thousand years, Christianity ruled the world with an absolute iron fist, where just doubting was seen as an offence punishable by torture or death.

Jesus himself had some interesting things to say about morality and how we should treat others, but nothing that hadn't already been said before by earlier philosophers like the Buddha.

What really pushed the cult forward were the people rising up and saying enough of this ****, and the bringing on of the enlightenment.

[kirklancaster]

Lets not go overboard here, and Jesus himself had nothing to do with bringing the cult forward. For over a thousand years, Christianity ruled the world with an absolute iron fist, where just doubting was seen as an offence punishable by torture or death.

Jesus himself had some interesting things to say about morality and how we should treat others, but nothing that hadn't already been said before by earlier philosophers like the Buddha.

What really pushed the cult forward were the people rising up and saying enough of this ****, and the bringing on of the enlightenment.

:laugh: :nono: Not so. 'Christianity' survived where other contemporary cults did not and even flourished to a degree, but it but it only grew into the world religion which it has now become due to the newly 'crowned' Emperor Constantine converting to Christianity in the year 312 CE.

Before the Battle of the Milvian Bridge - which gained the victorious Constantine the title of Emperor (of the Western Roman Empire, anyway) Constantine saw a 'vision' in the sky of what he perceived as a glowing 'Christian' cross with a message that he would be victorious.

He did not adopt or enforce Christianity as the 'official' religion of The Roman Empire despite personally converting, but he did impose increased tolerance to the new religion and abolished anti-Christian practices, and it was these actions which allowed Christianity to flourish throughout the Roman Empire.

[kirklancaster]

yes bc it's shaped the Western civilisation and still is the main philosophical influence.
Besides, I'd not call it a pathetic cult. I abandoned religion myself, but can't deny that Jesus brought "the cult" forward in a big way. I have no quarrel with Jesus's teachings (forget about Old Testament stuff tho, that's bigots charter).
Take away the supernatural stuff, and Jesus becomes a serious social reformer and philosopher. I have utmost respect for the man.

I agree, Twosugars. Well said.

[kirklancaster]

Without the use of insane conspiracy theories, explain her corruption.

Google and research and reference other sources than just agenda-laden Democratic, Neo-Liberal, Left-Wing, and anti-Trump sources.

[The Slim Reaper]

:laugh: :nono: Not so. 'Christianity' survived where other contemporary cults did not and even flourished to a degree, but it but it only grew into the world religion which it has now become due to the newly 'crowned' Emperor Constantine converting to Christianity in the year 312 CE.

Before the Battle of the Milvian Bridge - which gained the victorious Constantine the title of Emperor (of the Western Roman Empire, anyway) Constantine saw a 'vision' in the sky of what he perceived as a glowing 'Christian' cross with a message that he would be victorious.

He did not adopt or enforce Christianity as the 'official' religion of The Roman Empire despite personally converting, but he did impose increased tolerance to the new religion and abolished anti-Christian practices, and it was these actions which allowed Christianity to flourish throughout the Roman Empire.

Christianity was made the only authorised religion of the roman empire in the 4th century, so I have no idea what you're trying to say. The part of my post that you bolded (for some reason) bears no relation to the content of your actual post, and is a reference to the enlightenment movement which began as a whisper around the 16th century, and grew from there. That's where Christianity was brought kicking and screaming into semi-modernity.

Do you have the Hilary corruption information yet or nah?

[The Slim Reaper]

Google and research and reference other sources than just agenda-laden Democratic, Neo-Liberal, Left-Wing, and anti-Trump sources.

You don't get to play that BS game with me, my dude. You say she's corrupt, so tell me how. You obviously know she is because no one uses that many smilies without having confidence in their own position so it should be easy for you. I don't like Hillary; you've got a captive audience here, so hit me with some facts homeboy.

[Alf]

Christianity was made the only authorised religion of the roman empire in the 4th century, so I have no idea what you're trying to say. The part of my post that you bolded (for some reason) bears no relation to the content of your actual post,and is a reference to the enlightenment movement which began as a whisper around the 16th century, and grew from there. That's where Christianity was brought kicking and screaming into semi-modernity.

Do you have the Hilary corruption information yet or nah?Are you talking about the Reformation rather than the enlightenment?

[The Slim Reaper]

Are you talking about the Reformation rather than the enlightenment?

Nope.

[Crimson Dynamo]

yes bc it's shaped the Western civilisation and still is the main philosophical influence.
Besides, I'd not call it a pathetic cult. I abandoned religion myself, but can't deny that Jesus brought "the cult" forward in a big way. I have no quarrel with Jesus's teachings (forget about Old Testament stuff tho, that's bigots charter).
Take away the supernatural stuff, and Jesus becomes a serious social reformer and philosopher. I have utmost respect for the man.

im not sure why as what we have about him, if he ever existed, is an account "written" over 100 years after he allegedly lived. The alleged accounts have been doctored and reimagined hundreds of times over to suit a particular narrative. The accounts contain abject lies about supernatural stuff so why we should believe the non supernatural stuff is a mystery

its utter hokum from start to finish

[Twosugars]

Lets not go overboard here, and Jesus himself had nothing to do with bringing the cult forward. For over a thousand years, Christianity ruled the world with an absolute iron fist, where just doubting was seen as an offence punishable by torture or death.

Jesus himself had some interesting things to say about morality and how we should treat others, but nothing that hadn't already been said before by earlier philosophers like the Buddha.

What really pushed the cult forward were the people rising up and saying enough of this ****, and the bringing on of the enlightenment.
I didn't mean he was responsible for spreading the message. As we know he was killed for that and before he could do much. Tho he managed a small group of fiercely dedicated followers and as we know the rest is history.

I meant he modernized and updated the message with his teachings which later became the basis of New Testament. It was that (and his messianic status and death) what made Christianity into a new religion which slowly but surely caught on in the whole region.

[Twosugars]

^ to add to my last post:

Doubt Jesus was aware of Buddha. So the originality of his thought in his cultural millieu remains.

Christianity's problems only began because it became a state religion. That's when politics and political interests started warping its message and adding stuff.
That's not Jesus's fault. I'm sure he would appalled at what has happened to his message.

[Twosugars]

im not sure why as what we have about him, if he ever existed, is an account "written" over 100 years after he allegedly lived. The alleged accounts have been doctored and reimagined hundreds of times over to suit a particular narrative. The accounts contain abject lies about supernatural stuff so why we should believe the non supernatural stuff is a mystery

its utter hokum from start to finish

He was mentioned by some Roman historians. I have to reason to doubt his existence. Also his original message is hardly easy and opportunistic. Again it makes me think it is true.

[The Slim Reaper]

I didn't mean he was responsible for spreading the message. As we know he was killed for that and before he could do much. Tho he managed a small group of fiercely dedicated followers and as we know the rest is history.

I meant he modernized and updated the message with his teachings which later became the basis of New Testament. It was that (and his messianic status and death) what made Christianity into a new religion which slowly but surely caught on in the whole region.

I think it's indisputable that Judaism is a far more tolerant and peaceful religion than Christianity, and that's without Jesus' message and teachings, so the relevance of his more temperate "teachings" is overplayed. I wasn't making the point that he plagiarized anyone, although it's entirely possible; my point was that he didn't even say anything that new or revolutionary for his time.

I know your statement that he was mentioned in roman history was to LT, but he actually wasn't. There are no mentions of him in the literature from the time he was supposed to have lived, but there were a couple of forgeries that were added a later date to make it look as though he was a contemporary, Josephus being the best example of this.

[Twosugars]

No time atm to corroborate, but here's a link to Tacitus's confirmation of Jesus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

[Crimson Dynamo]

He was mentioned by some Roman historians. I have to reason to doubt his existence. Also his original message is hardly easy and opportunistic. Again it makes me think it is true.

What message?

[Twosugars]

Judaism is based on Old Testament so their social etc teachings are not exactly enlightened.
True, they're peaceful because they are not a proselytising religion, more of an exclusive club of god's chosen people, not that keen on multiplying their ranks.
It's true you have some very tolerant strands of Judaism, but you also have very tolerant strands of other religions.

[Twosugars]

What message?

F00k off, LT :laugh: I'm not repeating basics here for your indulgence. You know very well what message, otherwise were have you been all your life? Basic tenets of Christianity are common knowledge or at least they should.
Failing that, Google it, you lazy git
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=3608

[Twosugars]

anyways, I'm not even fooking religious! I'm not here to defend religion as such. Just saying, Jesus existed and he was a cool guy. So that's that on that.
Get on with discussing bloody Sanders and American bigots.

[Crimson Dynamo]

F00k off, LT :laugh: I'm not repeating basics here for your indulgence. You know very well what message, otherwise were have you been all your life? Basic tenets of Christianity are common knowledge or at least they should.
Failing that, Google it, you lazy git
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=487&pictureid=3608



being nice to people and your neighbours was prevalent in all societies, chinese, celtic etc its not anything specific to christianity

the jesus myth was one of hundreds of similar myths in that area at that time and all followed the same basic premis of death and resurrection


"most secular historians also agree that the gospels contain large quantities of ahistorical legendary details mixed in with historical information about Jesus's life.[9] The Synoptic Gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke are heavily shaped by Jewish tradition, with the Gospel of Matthew deliberately portraying Jesus as a "new Moses".[10] Although it is highly unlikely that the authors of the Synoptic Gospels directly based any of their stories on pagan mythology,[11] it is possible that they may have subtly shaped their accounts of Jesus's healing miracles to resemble familiar Greek stories about miracles associated with Asclepius, the god of healing and medicine. The birth narratives of Matthew and Luke are usually seen by secular historians as legends designed to fulfill Jewish expectations about the Messiah"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_comparative_mythology

he may have been a bloke who people liked but the whole cult was fitted onto him many hundreds of years later and all fictitious

[Twosugars]

I said, leave supernatural stuff out of it.
Idk who Mary shagged, but doubt he was a god or an angel carrying god's semen

Jesus existed and he tried teaching good and doing good, not budging on that.

Back to Sanders.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I said, leave supernatural stuff out of it.
Idk who Mary shagged, but doubt he was a god or an angel carrying god's semen

Jesus existed and he tried teaching good and doing good, not budging on that.

Back to Sanders.

yes like every parent does


and parents teach their children not to virtue signal as it could lose you business

:smug:

[Maru]

Very interesting, 2S. But yeah, I didn't want to go the route of getting into the origins/purpose of doctrine, that is a different discussion... on topic, the discussion is this thing with Sanders, I think they were OK to remove her. However, it is wrong what Maxine Waters & co are calling for, harassment of citizens... I dont like when Trump suggests it either, when he points to the back of the auditorium and swears at the press, encourages the mob to go American Hero against them....not sure it I believe the account of owner following them out of the restaurant. It is not right our politicians are engaging in rhetoric... but thankfully most of them are pushing back. It won't affect them if it gets out of hand and so it is irresponsible for them to encourage it when citizens are put in harm's way...

I wonder what will happen when the Russia investigation wraps up, whatever is announced... will this get better or much worse? I think that is on everyone's mind, but I think it is unnecessary to promote civil confrontation when our system is still working...

Also, I am posting on mobile so sorry in advance as my post may have errors...

[GoldHeart]

The business rejected them ultimately because of their sexuality.

You can't twist this situation into being different than the cake situation, if that situation was fine and dandy then no one who believes that the bakery situation was resolved correctly can complain about this at all.

Why do you keep trying to compare the 2 ! :facepalm: .

The gay couple were NOT "rejected" , who's twisting things now :sleep:. They were still allowed in the bakery but were asked to choose another type of cake ,it's completely different .

Trump's secretary was actually kicked out because she works for Trump and it was clearly a political decision , as she works for Trump and people actually dislike both her & Trump .

[The Slim Reaper]

No time atm to corroborate, but here's a link to Tacitus's confirmation of Jesus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

Tacitus was born nearly 2 decades after jesus was supposed to have died, which means he wasn't a contemporary. There are no written accounts of his life emanating from the time he was supposed to have lived.

[Twosugars]

SR, still not convinced?

https://i.imgur.com/nfivrDf.jpg

[The Slim Reaper]

SR, still not convinced?

https://i.imgur.com/nfivrDf.jpg

My apologies, it seems as though I'm mistaken!

[Maru]

SR, still not convinced?

https://i.imgur.com/nfivrDf.jpg

Is it bad that I think this comic would be better if it were a selfie?

[kirklancaster]

If you support the rights of a business to refuse service to someone else, then it's exactly the same.

Please STOP using a falsehood as a premise because Ashers did NOT refuse Gay Activist Lee's order because he was 'Gay', they refused it specifically because he wanted a 'Support Gay Marriage' message on the decoration and THAT was not only asking law-abiding people to support an unlawful act but also contravened the bakers religious beliefs.

Ashers had served many 'Gay' customers so were NOT 'Homophobic' (what a ****ing tiresome term that has now become) and would have served Lee with his cake minus the message.

Ashers were cynically TARGETED by activist Lee specifically because he KNEW what their reaction would be and that brought worldwide publicity to the cause which he is an activist for.

In my opinion.

[GoldHeart]

Please STOP using a falsehood as a premise because Ashers did NOT refuse Gay Activist Lee's order because he was 'Gay', they refused it specifically because he wanted a 'Support Gay Marriage' message on the decoration and THAT was not only asking law-abiding people to support an unlawful act but also contravened the bakers religious beliefs.

Ashers had served many 'Gay' customers so were NOT 'Homophobic' (what a ****ing tiresome term that has now become) and would have served Lee with his cake minus the message.

Ashers were cynically TARGETED by activist Lee specifically because he KNEW what their reaction would be and that brought worldwide publicity to the cause which he is an activist for.

In my opinion.

Yeah I think some people can't defrentiate between being kicked out and being refused a particular item :idc:

[Maru]

Please STOP using a falsehood as a premise because Ashers did NOT refuse Gay Activist Lee's order because he was 'Gay', they refused it specifically because he wanted a 'Support Gay Marriage' message on the decoration and THAT was not only asking law-abiding people to support an unlawful act but also contravened the bakers religious beliefs.

Ashers had served many 'Gay' customers so were NOT 'Homophobic' (what a ****ing tiresome term that has now become) and would have served Lee with his cake minus the message.

Ashers were cynically TARGETED by activist Lee specifically because he KNEW what their reaction would be and that brought worldwide publicity to the cause which he is an activist for.

In my opinion.

Yeah, it is so exhausting now. Compassion fatigue is going to be a big problem here in the near future. Much of our headlines now center around those particular oppressed groups. It's not like these folk are not being "heard". In fact, one could even say the world revolved around those people, just based on the sheer magnitude of coverage. Have we seen anything like this before? I mean news cycle can be intense in the US, but it has felt never-ending since the last election... it never really completely calmed down either.

I'm not saying that those angles shouldn't be covered. What I am saying is, when the media is constantly drumming up outrage and the "they're oppressing us" narrative at every single turn, it gets to a point where the facts become secondary to the narrative and the saturation point is reached with the consistent drumming of identity politics... naturally, the compassion fatigue that is going to set eventually will be pretty hardcore. I don't the Democrats are being careful enough about this. If I were on that side, I'd want the media to scale back the constant outrage, at least somewhat. It's not helping their cause. Their core message is getting lost more and more with every news cycle that feeds off the same narratives... is my opinion.

I'm at this point, I just want November to be here... please please please, just let me cast my ballot and be done with it. It won't change the news too terribly much, but I've noticed the closer we have gotten to November, the more desperate it really seems to be getting with the call to action(s), the rhetoric, etc being in the thick of campaign season... It's almost like both parties are in the middle of fighting extinction... :|

I don't know that this restaurant owner wanted to cause any sort of publicity. They probably wouldn't have minded(?) if it was a side effect... but I don't think it would've been that big deal in the past if it were the staff of any other candidate... I'm sure politicians/staff are always getting all sorts of "interesting" feedback from citizens... that's we see some that keep a constant security detail. So like we would read stories, usualyl PR folk who get into some snaffoo with the public... but they don't necessarily comment on it publically, it just hits the papers and then maybe a one-off comment is made after the fact...

[Northern Monkey]

Please STOP using a falsehood as a premise because Ashers did NOT refuse Gay Activist Lee's order because he was 'Gay', they refused it specifically because he wanted a 'Support Gay Marriage' message on the decoration and THAT was not only asking law-abiding people to support an unlawful act but also contravened the bakers religious beliefs.

Ashers had served many 'Gay' customers so were NOT 'Homophobic' (what a ****ing tiresome term that has now become) and would have served Lee with his cake minus the message.

Ashers were cynically TARGETED by activist Lee specifically because he KNEW what their reaction would be and that brought worldwide publicity to the cause which he is an activist for.

In my opinion.Yep,That’s what i been saying for years.
It was the particular item that they didn’t offer.They didn’t just say
‘No gays
No dogs
No Irish’

If this couple wanted to buy a pack of fudge or some buns they wouldn’t have been told ‘No!You’re gay GET OUT!’

[Beso]

Mary, mathew, mark, luke, john.........jesus....yeah ok..im convinced.

[Tom4784]

Why do you keep trying to compare the 2 ! :facepalm: .

The gay couple were NOT "rejected" , who's twisting things now :sleep:. They were still allowed in the bakery but were asked to choose another type of cake ,it's completely different .

Trump's secretary was actually kicked out because she works for Trump and it was clearly a political decision , as she works for Trump and people actually dislike both her & Trump .

Of course they were rejected, they went into a bakery that offered custom cakes and their order was rejected because the owners decided to choose to follow homophobic passages in the bible because it 'justified' their views.

If you oppose someone's custom being rejected on the grounds of their political views then you can't be okay with the cake story. What you are trying to do here is push a double standard.

[GoldHeart]

Of course they were rejected, they went into a bakery that offered custom cakes and their order was rejected because the owners decided to choose to follow homophobic passages in the bible because it 'justified' their views.

If you oppose someone's custom being rejected on the grounds of their political views then you can't be okay with the cake story. What you are trying to do here is push a double standard.

I'm not pushing any double standard , I don't really care that much about Trump's secretary being kicked out of 1 restaurant :hee:, I'm not a Trump fan .

You could argue is it right to penalise someone just because they work for a certain obnoxious mentally unstable person in power ??, but it's the price you have to pay working for Trump of all people . Plus I doubt she has that much grief given to her .

Maybe I need to research more about this secretary but it sounds like she's annoyed alot of people anyway with her politics & attitude ,so she doesn't sound that nice :idc: .


I'm just saying you can't compare the two stories . Let's be sensible, the bakery wasn't an arse hole and he was still willing to serve them something . But you're making it sound like he verbally attacked them and told them to leave the premises . Which is ridiculous :nono:.

[Brillopad]

Please STOP using a falsehood as a premise because Ashers did NOT refuse Gay Activist Lee's order because he was 'Gay', they refused it specifically because he wanted a 'Support Gay Marriage' message on the decoration and THAT was not only asking law-abiding people to support an unlawful act but also contravened the bakers religious beliefs.

Ashers had served many 'Gay' customers so were NOT 'Homophobic' (what a ****ing tiresome term that has now become) and would have served Lee with his cake minus the message.

Ashers were cynically TARGETED by activist Lee specifically because he KNEW what their reaction would be and that brought worldwide publicity to the cause which he is an activist for.

In my opinion.

It’s pretty tiresome how issues like this regularly get twisted to suit some idiot’s agenda. And boy people are gullible - they fall for it hook line and sinker at every turn. I feel embarrassed for them.

[Kizzy]

Yep,That’s what i been saying for years.
It was the particular item that they didn’t offer.They didn’t just say
‘No gays
No dogs
No Irish’

If this couple wanted to buy a pack of fudge or some buns they wouldn’t have been told ‘No!You’re gay GET OUT!’

Equality... they didn't offer equality, that displays prejudice and is by definition discriminatory. As a business under the hate laws that is an offence.

[Beso]

Equality... they didn't offer equality, that displays prejudice and is by definition discriminatory. As a business under the hate laws that is an offence.

Just like me and my baseball cap n hoody look....no pub wants me anymore.:bawling:

[Twosugars]

Tacitus was born nearly 2 decades after jesus was supposed to have died, which means he wasn't a contemporary. There are no written accounts of his life emanating from the time he was supposed to have lived.

Tacitus is pretty reliable on the times of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, don't see why we should doubt him on Jesus