A convicted murderer in America has been given the death penalty because he’s gay

[Matthew.]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/opinion/charles-rhines-gay-jury-death-row.html

On Monday, the Supreme Court announced it would not stop South Dakota from killing a man who may have been sentenced to death because he is gay.

Some of the jurors who imposed the death penalty on Charles Rhines, who was convicted of murder, have said they thought the alternative — a life sentence served in a men’s prison — was something he would enjoy as a gay man.

During deliberations, the jury had often discussed the fact that Mr. Rhines was gay and there was “a lot of disgust” about it, one juror recalled in an interview, according to the court petition. Another said that jurors knew he was gay and “thought that he shouldn’t be able to spend his life with men in prison.” A third recounted hearing that if the jury did not sentence Mr. Rhines to death, “if he’s gay, we’d be sending him where he wants to go.”

The justices rejected Mr. Rhines’s plea to hear his bias claim, allowing his death sentence to stand despite disturbing evidence that it may have been the result of anti-L.G.B.T. animus. As usual, the court gave no explanation for its decision not to review the case. But its silence sent a deeply troubling message about the value placed on the lives of L.G.B.T. people.

In court papers opposing Mr. Rhines’s request for a fair sentence, South Dakota attempts to brush off this last remark as a “stab at humor” that didn’t land well. But a note from the jury to the sentencing judge leaves little doubt that this extraordinary assumption infected the jury’s decision-making process: “We know what the death penalty means. But we have no clue as to the reality of life without parole.”

In that note, the jurors went on to ask a series of questions aimed at whether Mr. Rhines would be in proximity to other men in prison. Would he “be allowed to mix with the general inmate population?” Would he be permitted “to discuss, describe or brag about his crime to other inmates?” Would he “have a cellmate?”

In other words, some members of the jury thought life in prison without parole would be fun for Mr. Rhines. So they decided to sentence him to death.

Juror deliberations are considered sacrosanct, but last year the Supreme Court carved out an important exception for cases of racial bias in the jury room. In a race discrimination case, there was evidence that the jury decided to convict an accused man of unlawful sexual contact and harassment because “he’s Mexican, and Mexican men take whatever they want,” in the words of one juror. The Supreme Court rightly found that such racial animus interfered with an accused’s person right to a fair and impartial trial.

The same rule should apply when anti-L.G.B.T. prejudice taints juror decision-making. To be sure, the history of racism in America is unique and demands unique safeguards. But that does not make anti-L.G.B.T. discrimination any less objectionable, particularly when it may have made the difference between life and death.

It’s difficult to square allowing the state to execute Mr. Rhines because of his sexual orientation with the Supreme Court’s observation this month that states should prevent the harms of discrimination against L.G.B.T. people. And while bias in the criminal justice system is not always explicit, it was in Mr. Rhines’s case. That makes the court’s decision not to step in even more alarming.

Sadly, the court will almost certainly be presented with more requests to review convictions or sentences poisoned by anti-L.G.B.T. bias. It should take the next opportunity to correct this mistake and recognize that prejudice against people who are L.G.B.T. should play no role in America’s criminal justice system.

However, that will probably come too late for Mr. Rhines.

Thoughts on this? I think it’s awful

[RileyH]

Dead @ the whole 'he'd enjoy prison bc he's gay' :skull: :skull: :skull:

[montblanc]

that’s awful

[montblanc]

and it forces the widely believed stereotype that gay men are attracted to every man they see

[Moniqua]

dehsgusteng :yuk:

[Tom4784]

and it forces the widely believed stereotype that gay men are attracted to every man they see

And either are prone to rape or enjoy being raped?

I imagine a lot of people won't care because it's a murderer but it sets an awful precedent that gay people will get worse sentences than straight people. If a straight person would have gotten life without parole than a gay person should get the same. It's very much the case that they made the decision to kill this man because he was gay.

That's not justice, that's responding to an awful crime with a hate crime.

[arista]

He did a Murder.
that's what matters.

[Kazanne]

He murdered someone,so I am not really bothered what happens to him,whether he is gay or not is irrelevant,he took someones life and made their family suffer forever.

[Matthew.]

He did a Murder.
that's what matters.

He murdered someone,so I am not really bothered what happens to him,whether he is gay or not is irrelevant,he took someones life and made their family suffer forever.

i guess, but i also think the point is being missed a bit. it’s the fact that the punishment is being increased because of his sexuality that is wrong.

[Kazanne]

i guess, but i also think the point is being missed a bit. it’s the fact that the punishment is being increased because of his sexuality that is wrong.

Are we sure about that though Matthew , or is the press being over exuberant again, you know how they like to embellish things.

[GoldHeart]

Are we sure about that though Matthew , or is the press being over exuberant again, you know how they like to embellish things.

Pretty much this :clap1:

[Marsh.]

Are we sure about that though Matthew , or is the press being over exuberant again, you know how they like to embellish things.

The questions the jurors asked are in the court papers.

[Tom4784]

Are we sure about that though Matthew , or is the press being over exuberant again, you know how they like to embellish things.

You can't just discount something like that just because of a hunch. after looking online, a lot of different places are reporting on it. I definitely think it's worth discussing.

He murdered someone,so I am not really bothered what happens to him,whether he is gay or not is irrelevant,he took someones life and made their family suffer forever.

It certainly isn't irrelevant, the crime actually is irrelevant though. What matters here is whether or not the death sentence was handed down because of homophobia or not and if a straight person wouldn't have received the same punishment. The guy's a murderer, he deserves his conviction BUT if he's been put to death BECAUSE he is gay then that's a problem.... Unless you're saying that hate crimes are okay in situations like this?

He did a Murder.
that's what matters.

Wrong...unless you want to take the apologist approach to this subject.

Pretty much this :clap1:

It really doesn't, I think you three have completely missed the point of why this ruling could potentially be a concern.

[montblanc]

i don't understand how people are missing the point?

like we know he committed a murder but are you actually kidding me?

[montblanc]

He murdered someone,so I am not really bothered what happens to him,whether he is gay or not is irrelevant,he took someones life and made their family suffer forever.

so you agree with a gay murderer being treated worse than a straight one?

[Niamh.]

If the jurors actually made that decision based on his sexuality then surely that's grounds for a new sentencing hearing? That's horrendous, it's like saying straight women can't be raped because they like men.

[Mystic Mock]

If this report is true then South Dakota has really hit the ****ter.

You won't get the death penalty for being a murderer, but you will get the death penalty for being gay? Wtf!:umm2:

[Amy Jade]

That's horrific

Yes he commited an awful crime but to give him a harsher sentence based on his sexuality and the odd belife a gay man would enjoy prison life is plain and simple homophobic.

[reece(:]

He murdered someone,so I am not really bothered what happens to him,whether he is gay or not is irrelevant,he took someones life and made their family suffer forever.
I think it's more about the fact that equal punishment isn't a thing, if it was a straight man there'd be no death penalty?

South Dakota cancelled

[bots]

The question I would ask is has there been any similar case where a jury decided that a straight male would be better sentenced to death than life imprisonment.

[Kazanne]

so you agree with a gay murderer being treated worse than a straight one?

I never said that though did I :nono:? of course gay or straight should be treated equally,what I actually said was do we actually know it's true or have the press embellished it as they are prone to do.

[Withano]

He did a Murder.
that's what matters.

He murdered someone,so I am not really bothered what happens to him,whether he is gay or not is irrelevant,he took someones life and made their family suffer forever.

You’ve missed the point entirely

[Brillopad]

You can't just discount something like that just because of a hunch. after looking online, a lot of different places are reporting on it. I definitely think it's worth discussing.



It certainly isn't irrelevant, the crime actually is irrelevant though. What matters here is whether or not the death sentence was handed down because of homophobia or not and if a straight person wouldn't have received the same punishment. The guy's a murderer, he deserves his conviction BUT if he's been put to death BECAUSE he is gay then that's a problem.... Unless you're saying that hate crimes are okay in situations like this?



Wrong...unless you want to take the apologist approach to this subject.



It really doesn't, I think you three have completely missed the point of why this ruling could potentially be a concern.

They haven’t missed the point at all - they just think the whole damn thing is ridiculous because it is. Tell some people a man has been given the death sentence for being gay and watch the hysteria. It’s quite amusing really. You can almost see the smoke coming out their ears!

Even if true, which seems highly unlikely in PC America, he won’t be executed - they might even let him out now for all he has been put through in this crazy, mixed-up world of ours. I hope not though as like all murderers he is a scumbag.

[Matthew.]

They haven’t missed the point at all - they just think the whole damn thing is ridiculous because it is. Tell some people a man has been given the death sentence for being gay and watch the hysteria. It’s quite amusing really. You can almost see the smoke coming out their ears!

He won’t be executed - they might even let him out now for all he has been put through in this crazy, mixed-up world of ours. I hope not though as like all murderers he is a scumbag.

you agree that the death penalty is appropriate purely on the basis that life in a men’s prison would be enjoyable for the man?

[Brillopad]

you agree that the death penalty is appropriate purely on the basis that life in a men’s prison would be enjoyable for the man?

The whole thing is too ridiculous to even have an opinion on. Sounds like a fake story to create the inevitable hysterical effect.

[Matthew.]

The whole thing is too ridiculous to even have an opinion on. Sounds like a fake story to create the inevitable hysterical effect.

i think it’s probably true, most cases like this are

[Greg!]

Stupid jurors, he would HATE sharing jail time with straight men. He would've loved staying in a gals prison with the hags!

[Marsh.]

The whole thing is too ridiculous to even have an opinion on. Sounds like a fake story to create the inevitable hysterical effect.

"Sounds like" isn't a valid argument.

[Marsh.]

Even if true, which seems highly unlikely in PC America

Yeah, the entirety of America have always had such relaxed views on gays, right?

[Tom4784]

They haven’t missed the point at all - they just think the whole damn thing is ridiculous because it is. Tell some people a man has been given the death sentence for being gay and watch the hysteria. It’s quite amusing really. You can almost see the smoke coming out their ears!

Even if true, which seems highly unlikely in PC America, he won’t be executed - they might even let him out now for all he has been put through in this crazy, mixed-up world of ours. I hope not though as like all murderers he is a scumbag.

So you agree with giving gay people a harsher sentence than straight people?

[Brillopad]

So you agree with giving gay people a harsher sentence than straight people?

What were you saying previously about imaging words not said! Please tell me where I either said or suggested that. God forbid!

[Tom4784]

What were you saying previously about imaging words not said! Please tell me where I either said or suggested that. God forbid!

I assumed by the fact that you were minimizing the story and bring the PC bull**** into it that you were fine with someone being given a harsher sentence because of their sexuality. Why don't you clear that up for me?

Do you agree with it or not?

[user104658]

Not Brillo thinking that South Dakota is PC :umm2:. I think perhaps you have a vast misunderstanding of the United States, Brillo.

[Maru]

Juries are flawed. That's why they have to be very mindful during selection to make sure they are not picking candidates who are biased against their client(s) in even a subtle way. On the other side of that coin, juries will deliver lighter sentences to candidates on the basis of their attractiveness, for example, that a pretty woman is not as capable of a heinous crime as say a male with numerous body tattoos... if their lawyer has any sense, they will appeal (and win).

[Brillopad]

Not Brillo thinking that South Dakota is PC :umm2:. I think perhaps you have a vast misunderstanding of the United States, Brillo.

Not in their hearts maybe but they are unlikely to be so blatant about it are they - not if they value their jobs! The PC bogie man will be after them.

[Marsh.]

Not in their hearts maybe but they are unlikely to be so blatant about it are they - not if they value their jobs!

No, not at all.

[montblanc]

which seems highly unlikely in PC America

:skull:

[Tom4784]

Not in their hearts maybe but they are unlikely to be so blatant about it are they - not if they value their jobs! The PC bogie man will be after them.

It's South Dakota... I know you like to push this 'PC gone mad' narrative but it pays to actually know what you're talking about when it comes to the states and their attitudes.

[Maru]

Not Brillo thinking that South Dakota is PC :umm2:. I think perhaps you have a vast misunderstanding of the United States, Brillo.

I know jack all about SD, but that last part was pretty funny.

I dont think we can assume the validity of any story, but for all we know the truth is somewhere in the middle... the media can be trigger happy but their narrative still nail the issue all the same. It could also be a really bad joke... but I think warrants an appeal either way if the comments can be held up in appeals court. Maybe jury misconduct.

Gotta Catch 'Em All ♪

[Brillopad]

It's South Dakota... I know you like to push this 'PC gone mad' narrative but it pays to actually know what you're talking about when it comes to the states and their attitudes.

Your response is not only pointless but the repetitive nature of it demonstrates you know little more about America than you accuse me of. Simply repeating what others havee said achieves nothing and doesn’t demonstrate any knowledge on your part. All mouth and no trousers as they say!

[Eddie.]

Well he committed a murder, so I don’t really care about the convicted’s sexuality...

Though nothing against the LGBT...

[Crimson Dynamo]

sounds like fake news and a facebook omg story to me

[Beso]

Gay or not his crime deserves the death penalty, one which i believe would have been given in the end without all this hullabaloo.

[Tom4784]

Your response is not only pointless but the repetitive nature of it demonstrates you know little more about America than you accuse me of. Simply repeating what others havee said achieves nothing and doesn’t demonstrate any knowledge on your part. All mouth and no trousers as they say!

That makes no sense at all, like, AT ALL.

But whatever, you've already shown your lack of knowledge, saying 'I know you are but what am I?' won't change that. You do you, sis.

[Tom4784]

Gay or not his crime deserves the death penalty, one which i believe would have been given in the end without all this hullabaloo.

Except the point is that it looks like he's been sentenced to death because of his sexuality, going by the story, they would have sentenced him to life imprisonment if he was straight. That's the problem.

Well he committed a murder, so I don’t really care about the convicted’s sexuality...

Though nothing against the LGBT...

That's not the point though, the point is has he been sentenced harsher than a straight man would for the same crime which is completely wrong regardless of the circumstances.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"may"

the good news is he is being killed so the families of the victim can get closure

[Niamh.]

"may"

the good news is he is being killed so the families of the victim can get closure

Is there anything to compare this sentencing with. Like what pushes it over from life to the death penalty? They surely must have some guidelines? Not just it being left to a set of jurors personalities

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is there anything to compare this sentencing with. Like what pushes it over from life to the death penalty? They surely must have some guidelines? Not just it being left to a set of jurors personalities

I guess its the same as sitting on the jury thinking I dont want this child killer to go to jail for 30 years wanking over what he did, watching baseball and reading books and chatting, id rather he die right now for the sake of the victim families

I know what I would prefer and chose

[bots]

Is there anything to compare this sentencing with. Like what pushes it over from life to the death penalty? They surely must have some guidelines? Not just it being left to a set of jurors personalities

exactly, there must be a choice at all these murder trials, and it's not like the guy was taken straight out and dealt with. There will be reviews/appeals etc and if any bias or persecution was evident in the trial it would be thrown out

[Niamh.]

I guess its the same as sitting on the jury thinking I dont want this child killer to go to jail for 30 years wanking over what he did, watching baseball and reading books and chatting, id rather he die right now for the sake of the victim families

I know what I would prefer and chose

Yeah but this guy wasn't a child killer though was he? I mean like a serial killer or someone who tortured their victim or whatever, is more severe than someone who just stabbed someone to death (not that that's great or anything) but you know what I mean, is there a line from "just killing a person" that needs to be crossed (to multiple killings or particularly cruel killings) to say you would give the person the death penalty or could be allowed give them the death penalty because there should be I think otherwise it's a pretty unfair system

[Beso]

Except the point is that it looks like he's been sentenced to death because of his sexuality, going by the story, they would have sentenced him to life imprisonment if he was straight. That's the problem.



That's not the point though, the point is has he been sentenced harsher than a straight man would for the same crime which is completely wrong regardless of the circumstances.

One juror going ewwww at the thought of him bumming another nan wasnt the cataclyst for the final verdict no matter how many times its mentioned....

His vile crime and his non remorseful actions after the crime was his final nail in the coffin.

[bots]

Yeah but this guy wasn't a child killer though was he? I mean like a serial killer or someone who tortured their victim or whatever, is more severe than someone who just stabbed someone to death (not that that's great or anything) but you know what I mean, is there a line from "just killing a person" that needs to be crossed (to multiple killings or particularly cruel killings) to say you would give the person the death penalty or could be allowed give them the death penalty because there should be I think otherwise it's a pretty unfair system

Usually, its the prosecution that go for the conviction and what punishment they expect. They are unlikely to go for a lesser punishment and the jury upgrade it, that's not how it works. So they will have requested the death penalty and the jury agreed. Which is a completely different thing than is being portrayed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah but this guy wasn't a child killer though was he? I mean like a serial killer or someone who tortured their victim or whatever, is more severe than someone who just stabbed someone to death (not that that's great or anything) but you know what I mean, is there a line from "just killing a person" that needs to be crossed (to multiple killings or particularly cruel killings) to say you would give the person the death penalty or could be allowed give them the death penalty because there should be I think otherwise it's a pretty unfair system

But do individual jurors have to go on record why they come to a decision personally to send to the chair or jail or is this just people speaking out of turn about what was discussed before they came to a decision?

[Niamh.]

Usually, its the prosecution that go for the conviction and what punishment they expect. They are unlikely to go for a lesser punishment and the jury upgrade it, that's not how it works. So they will have requested the death penalty and the jury agreed. Which is a completely different thing than is being portrayed.

Thanks BOTS :love:

But do individual jurors have to go on record why they come to a decision personally to send to the chair or jail or is this just people speaking out of turn about what was discussed before they came to a decision?

Yes that's what I was asking, I was asking if there was some criteria that had to be met before they're even allowed consider giving the death penalty but obviously not, it depends on what the Prosecution ask for (thanks BOTS) that doesn't sound like a good system to me

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thanks BOTS :love:



Yes that's what I was asking, I was asking if there was some criteria that had to be met before they're even allowed consider giving the death penalty but obviously not, it depends on what the Prosecution ask for (thanks BOTS) that doesn't sound like a good system to me

Neem one of the states hurriedly killed 7 people in like 2 months because the poison they use was going out of date and they did not want to waste money

no word of a lie :shocked:

[Niamh.]

Neem one of the states hurriedly killed 7 people in like 2 months because the poison they use was going out of date and they did not want to waste money

no word of a lie :shocked:

Seriously? Bloody hell

[Crimson Dynamo]

Seriously? Bloody hell

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/arkansas-executed-executions-lethal-injection-seven-11-drugs-expire-death-row-a7673571.html

yep

[Niamh.]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/arkansas-executed-executions-lethal-injection-seven-11-drugs-expire-death-row-a7673571.html

yep

grim

[Beso]

I think jurors have to sign some sort of written explantation as to why they came to the descision.....i could be wrong though.

[GoldHeart]

What I want to know is why has his sexuality become the centre of this story, that's overshadowing the fact he's a murderer !!! :facepalm: . The media are having a field day trying to promote this so called "discrimination" :bored: ,shall we all forget he's committed a horrible crime ?. This is insane! . Why not have sympathy for the victim's family.

If a straight criminal was convicted ,the story wouldn't be revolved around his sexuality .

I think it's a far stretch to make assumptions ,and America is confusing in general as every state has a different law and different punishment .

For e.g I've heard crime stories where someone might get lethal injection for doing disgusting things,but another person who equally does heinous crimes will just get a few years in prison That's the system for you .

All round there's inconsistencies whether the convicted is black,white ,female,male ,gay,straight :nono: I've seen and heard different punishments for every type of person .

[Tom4784]

What I want to know is why has his sexuality become the centre of this story, that's overshadowing the fact he's a murderer !!! :facepalm: . The media are having a field day trying to promote this so called "discrimination" :bored: ,shall we all forget he's committed a horrible crime ?. This is insane! . Why not have sympathy for the victim's family.

If a straight criminal was convicted ,the story wouldn't be revolved around his sexuality .

I think it's a far stretch to make assumptions ,and America is confusing in general as every state has a different law and different punishment .

For e.g I've heard crime stories where someone might get lethal injection for doing disgusting things,but another person who equally does heinous crimes will just get a few years in prison That's the system for you .

All round there's inconsistencies whether the convicted is black,white ,female,male ,gay,straight :nono: I've seen and heard different punishments for every type of person .

Again, you've missed the point. His crime is largely irrelevant to the issue of the story. The point of the story is that it's reported that he is getting a death sentence BECAUSE he is gay when he would have been imprisoned for life if he was straight. That is the issue because it sets a dangerous precedent, will gay people be punished more harshly in South Dakota if this story is valid and goes unchallenged?

Do you think that is fair? By ignoring that issue you are basically agreeing with the precedent that could be set here.

[arista]

grim


But that's American laws
we have no death penalty
in UK or your EU owned Ireland

[Niamh.]

But that's American laws
we have no death penalty
in UK or your EU owned Ireland

:oh:

[GoldHeart]

Again, you've missed the point. His crime is largely irrelevant to the issue of the story. The point of the story is that it's reported that he is getting a death sentence BECAUSE he is gay when he would have been imprisoned for life if he was straight. That is the issue because it sets a dangerous precedent, will gay people be punished more harshly in South Dakota if this story is valid and goes unchallenged?

Do you think that is fair? By ignoring that issue you are basically agreeing with the precedent that could be set here.

But are they just saying this because he's a minority ??? If he was a woman or black would we be screaming also sexism & racism!?? .

But as I've said I've seen real crime stories of all ethnicities ,both genders & all sexualities getting either death penalty ,or light sentences or life inprisonment .

South Dakota is suddenly unfair and full of hate according to some opinions ? .

What about places like Texas which still have KKK , that was always seen as a backwards state ?. There's still supposed to be a justice system in place despite predjudices .

The news article also says he "may" have gotten death penalty due to his sexuality but that doesn't sound like concrete proof to me :nono: .

[Tom4784]

But are they just saying this because he's a minority ??? If he was a woman or black would we be screaming also sexism & racism!?? .

But as I've said I've seen real crime stories of all ethnicities ,both genders & all sexualities getting either death penalty ,or light sentences or life inprisonment .

South Dakota is suddenly unfair and full of hate according to some opinions ? .

What about places like Texas which still have KKK , that was always seen as a backwards state ?. There's still supposed to be a justice system in place despite predjudices .

The news article also says he "may" have gotten death penalty due to his sexuality but that doesn't sound like concrete proof to me :nono: .

You're still missing the point.

It's not about getting the murderer freed or anything like that, it's about getting him the same punishment as anyone else would in the same situation. This situation needs to be investigated and the sentencing, if found to be discriminatory, needs to be re-evaluated. You can't push to sentence a gay man to die because he 'might enjoy living with men in prison'. As I said before, that sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to gay people getting harsher sentences than their straight counterparts.

You can gloss over it all you want but all that achieves is condoning discriminatory treatment in the law.

[GoldHeart]

You're still missing the point.

It's not about getting the murderer freed or anything like that, it's about getting him the same punishment as anyone else would in the same situation. This situation needs to be investigated and the sentencing, if found to be discriminatory, needs to be re-evaluated. You can't push to sentence a gay man to die because he 'might enjoy living with men in prison'. As I said before, that sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to gay people getting harsher sentences than their straight counterparts.

You can gloss over it all you want but all that achieves is condoning discriminatory treatment in the law.

But he won't be the only gay man convicted in South Dakota surely?. But for some reason this particular story is making headlines and it's being spun into a predjudice argument.

How do you know it's not just another BS story??!! .

And the prison comment about men being together is pretty disgusting ,I can't imagine anyone with a brain saying something so ignorant about a guy "enjoying it " :shocked: , if that's the case then why don't they care about every straight man that gets sentenced in prison in risk of getting abused there ?.

We all know in both male & female prison violence & abuse happens .
But anyway I'm going off topic , I'm not missing the point either as the man is still a murderer . Now if he'd been WRONGLY arrested & accused then that's a different story :nono: .

I've already said America is frustrating with their different laws and punishment's on every state , I've watched crime programs which makes us scratch our heads at the different sentences and punishment's :conf: :bored: .

[Tom4784]

But he won't be the only gay man convicted in South Dakota surely?. But for some reason this particular story is making headlines and it's being spun into a predjudice argument.

How do you know it's not just another BS story??!! .

And the prison comment about men being together is pretty disgusting ,I can't imagine anyone with a brain saying something so ignorant about a guy "enjoying it " :shocked: , if that's the case then why don't they care about every straight man that gets sentenced in prison in risk of getting abused there ?.

We all know in both male & female prison violence & abuse happens .
But anyway I'm going off topic , I'm not missing the point either as the man is still a murderer . Now if he'd been WRONGLY arrested & accused then that's a different story :nono: .

I've already said America is frustrating with their different laws and punishment's on every state , I've watched crime programs which makes us scratch our heads at the different sentences and punishment's :conf: :bored: .

This is giving me a headache. Right, last time I explain it.

The story suggests there is court records of discrimination within the sentencing, that this gay man is being given a harsher sentence, not because of his crime, but because of his sexuality. Do you understand the issue with that? Are you following me thus far?

This story isn't about overturning a conviction or even other court cases involving gay people (unless it's revealed that there's more cases like this in which gay people were handed harsher punishments on the grounds of their sexuality) so I'm quite bewildered by your opening sentence tbh. It doesn't have any relevance to the topic at hand. This story is making headlines because a gay man is being killed when he would have likely been given a life sentence if he was straight? Do you understand the problem with that?

As for the BS line, there's one thing I'm growing increasingly tired of in today's world and that is people declaring anything they dislike as fake news so they don't have to pay attention to it or deal with it. Delusion is not an answer. If there is grounds to believe this sentence was handed down because of homophobia rather than because the crime demanded it then it's the morally correct decision to raise awareness of the story and hope there's an investigation into the sentencing, if it turns out to be true as the articles suggest then the courts will likely hand out a more ethical sentence and he would likely be spending the rest of his life in prison.

Again, you've shown in your paragraph (the one that starts off with the weird prison violence line, that you simply aren't getting it. This isn't about him being innocent or overturning the verdict. This is about making sure that he is not being sentenced to die, not because the crime demands it, but because he is gay.

I honestly don't know how else to say it to help you understand what this story is about.

[chuff me dizzy]

He took an innocent life ..... End of ,good riddance

[montblanc]

He took an innocent life ..... End of ,good riddance

that's not the point, chuff.

[chuff me dizzy]

that's not the point, chuff.

It IS the point, he took a life, he paid the price

[montblanc]

It IS the point, he took a life, he paid the price

he was given a harder sentence because he was gay :suspect:

[Tom4784]

It IS the point, he took a life, he paid the price

Nope, you're glossing over the fact why this story has gained prominence to begin with, thus you have completely missed the point.

No one is saying he doesn't deserve to be convicted, people just want him to be convicted with the same consideration a straight person would be.

Answer me this, are you fine with sentencing a gay person to death for a crime that a straight person would have got a life sentence for? Do you not see the issue there?

[chuff me dizzy]

he was given a harder sentence because he was gay :suspect:

An eye for an eye

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hang on the majority of the forum constantly tell me death is the easiest option and that festering in jail is far worse

Make up your minds

?

[montblanc]

An eye for an eye

i don't think you understand the problem with this but ok

[Tom4784]

Hang on the majority of the forum constantly tell me death is the easiest option and that festering in jail is far worse

Make up your minds

?

The punishment doesn't matter, the fact that it might be determined, not by the crime but the accused's sexuality is the issue.

Of course, you know that already.

[chuff me dizzy]

i don't think you understand the problem with this but ok

Any pity I have is saved for the victim and their family

[GoldHeart]

Any pity I have is saved for the victim and their family

Exactly
That's who I feel sorry for

[montblanc]

Any pity I have is saved for the victim and their family

i'm not saying that you have to have pity for the murderer? But the reason WHY he was given the death penalty is discriminatory

this basically says that gay killers are worse than straight killers solely because of their sexuality

[Tom4784]

Any pity I have is saved for the victim and their family

And that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

[Matthew.]

ugh i honestly don’t get what part of “we’re annoyed that he has been given the death penalty on the basis he is gay” PEOPLE AREN’T UNDERSTANDING! :fist::fist::fist:

[chuff me dizzy]

And that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

It has to me

[Tom4784]

It has to me

It really doesn't. No one is saying this man is not guilty or not deserving of a conviction, the issue is whether his conviction was decided because of the crime or because of his sexuality. If it's the latter, it sets a precedent that could allow for gay people to get sentenced based purely on their sexuality and not their crime.

Again, I'm gonna ask you to answer this question.

Answer me this, are you fine with sentencing a gay person to death for a crime that a straight person would have got a life sentence for? Do you not see the issue there?

[chuff me dizzy]

It really doesn't. No one is saying this man is not guilty or not deserving of a conviction, the issue is whether his conviction was decided because of the crime or because of his sexuality. If it's the latter, it sets a precedent that could allow for gay people to get sentenced based purely on their sexuality and not their crime.

Again, I'm gonna ask you to answer this question.

No one knows for sure why he got the death penalty ,one thing we do know hes a murderer despite his sexuality

[Tom4784]

No one knows for sure why he got the death penalty ,one thing we do know hes a murderer despite his sexuality

But based on what's been said in that article. Do you think it's right to sentence people differently based, not on their crimes, but their sexuality?

Take murder our of the equation if you're struggling to see past that. Do you think it's right to give a gay person a different sentence based purely on their sexuality?

[chuff me dizzy]

But based on what's been said in that article. Do you think it's right to sentence people differently based, not on their crimes, but their sexuality?

Take murder our of the equation if you're struggling to see past that. Do you think it's right to give a gay person a different sentence based purely on their sexuality?

Of course on their crimes, but I have no sympathy for him at all regardless of his sexuality

[Tom4784]

Of course on their crimes, but I have no sympathy for him at all regardless of his sexuality

And that's the point of this thread. Regardless of the crime, there is evidence to suggest that someone has been sentenced based not on their crime but their sexuality. That is the issue here.

[kirklancaster]

The innocent victim of cowardly 'Gay' monster Charles Rhines was just a 22 years old 'ordinary' kid who just happened to be at his rightful place of work when Rhines decided to rob the place.

As with some on here, most of the internet sites with an agenda to push refrain from mentioning anything but the skimpiest details of the crime other than; 'Rhines stabbed him to death during a robbery', and on here some go as far as to maintain that the "crime is irrelevant' when compared with the 'fact' that a man might have received the Death Sentence' based upon the fact that he is Gay - which is NOT the case at all but 'hey ho' this is TIBB so more of that later.

First, let's have the TRUTH about this 'stabbing during a robbery' and an insight into what type of human this Charles Rhines is - apart from the all-important characteristic of being 'Gay' of course.

22 year old shop worker Donnivan Shaeffer was terrified and compliant when he inadvertently disturbed Rhines during his robbery but:

“Rhines locked Donnivan’s head between his knees and pounded a hunting knife into the base of Donnivan’s skull, partially severing his brain stem,” the brief says. “Unaffected by the screams and blood and death, Rhines left the store with his loot to get something to eat ... an order of french fries.” Then there was his “bloodcurdling confession, in which he cackles while comparing young Donnivan’s death spasms to a beheaded chicken running around a barnyard.”

Callous, evil, boastful, and totally unrepentant then, but perhaps 10 years of incarceration changed Rhines? Made him more remorseful?

In 2002, Joel Schwader was working as a Rapid City newspaper columnist hit on the idea of writing to death row inmates to see what life was really like on death row. Is it as bad as people thought, or did they lead a nice, cozy life?” Schwader said. He wrote to all five men waiting to be executed.

Charles Rhines, who was sentenced for Murder in 1993, was the first to respond. He said, all things considered, his life wasn’t that bad. He even had a sense of humor. “Personally speaking, I think I’d likely have gotten another murder conviction had I been forced to spend the last nine years in a cell with Donald Moeller or Ron Anderson. They’re both okay individuals to speak with, but I don’t think I could handle spending 23 1/4 hours per day in a cell with them without resorting to violence,” Schwader read from Rhines’ letter.

Rhines’ continues; “As for letting the people of South Dakota know what life on Death Row is really like, well, perhaps we’d be better off not telling anyone. It’s not as if they chain us to a wall and feed us with sling shots,” Schwader read from Rhines’ letter.

“While I’m getting rather long-winded, supper is nearing. It might even be edible tonight. It’s never fancy, but usually okay.

Sincerely yours,

Charles R. Rhines.”

But, of course NONE of the above is 'relevant' to some on this site - not the horrific manner in which he slaughtered his cowered innocent victim while he screamed for mercy, nor the evil manner in which he grinned and cackled whilst boasting to detectives that poor young Donnivan Shaeffer's death spasms resembled "a beheaded chicken running around a barnyard” nor even the totally incredulous and callous manner in which he "left the store with his loot to get something to eat ... an order of french fries.”

No - NONE of the above swayed that jury to seek the Death Penalty, only the fact that Rhines was Gay and might 'enjoy life imprisonment in a men's prison'.

What a load of TOSH.

As recently as he 6th of June 2018 - some 25 years after the trial - , the hugely respected and independent 'Marshall Project' news organistion asked; 'What really happened in the jury room?' and to help secure answers, Maurice Chammah visited three of the original jurors.

Hammah writes:

"I reached out to three jurors — one quoted by the defense, one quoted by the prosecution, and one quoted by both sides — and the picture grew even muddier.

Former juror Frances Cersosimo said last week that she vividly remembers a juror saying that Rhines might not mind life in prison because he was gay. “There was a murmuring, everyone said ‘Whaaat?” Cersosimo recalled.

Immediately, this man admitted “it was a stupid thing to say...I don’t know why I said that.” The South Dakota state investigator characterized this as a “joke,” though Cersosimo insisted, “It was not a joke.” (The juror she recalled being the one who said this declined to comment.)

In another affidavit collected by the defense, juror Harry Keeney admits the knowledge of Rhines’s homosexuality affected his decision. His signature appears shaky and the state says this is because he has dementia. His wife Janet Keeney confirmed to The Marshall Project this is true. “I think he didn’t say that,” she said of the comment in question. “I wouldn’t depend upon it.” “We’d just come back from a vacation,” she added. “We were tired...The average person can’t remember what happened 25 years ago.”

Hammah continues:

"The jurors I reached all said that they sentenced Rhines to death primarily because of the nature of the murder."

“The pictures of the kid, he way he bragged about the kid begging for his life. Those things never leave your head,” said juror Delight McGriff, who has no memory of any comments about homosexuality, though she admitted “this was a long time ago.”

In addition, despite the hysterical reaching of some to the contrary, NO ONE stated that Rhines would enjoy life imprisonment with men because he was a homosexual apart from one juror who claimed it was a joke and who immediately regretted his 'stupid' comment.

To me, it DOES seem more like a bad joke than a serious comment, but the point is that the majority of jurors took exception to the homophobic comment - joke or not - and did NOT 'row in' with this juror's homophobia.

Even Hammah states that the jurors he reached out to ALL concluded that they had passed the Death Sentence NOT because of any other consideration but the horrific nature of the crime and the killer's evil boasting and complete lack of humanity.

So NO death Sentence passed because the depraved coward killer was 'Gay' then only compelling evidence that the sole homophobic comment made repulsed the rest of thejurors and did not play any part in the majority decision.

For the record, before the jurors decided Charles Rhines fate having just found him guilty of fatally stabbing 22-year-old Donnivan Schaeffer, they sent a handwritten note to the judge with QUESTIONS which they needed answering for clarification:

If they didn’t vote for the death penalty, what would his life in prison look like? Would he be “allowed to mix with the general inmate population”? Would he be able “to create a group of followers or admirers”? Would he have a cellmate?

The judge said that he was unable to answer and the jury then determined the Death Penalty.

The RIGHT decision in my opinion,but one reached according to NOTHING but the horrific nature of the crime and the even more horrific nature of the killer.

Anything else is tiresome hysterical 'reaching' and hyperbole - also in my opinion.

[Brillopad]

The innocent victim of cowardly 'Gay' monster Charles Rhines was just a 22 years old 'ordinary' kid who just happened to be at his rightful place of work when Rhines decided to rob the place.

As with some on here, most of the internet sites with an agenda to push refrain from mentioning anything but the skimpiest details of the crime other than; 'Rhines stabbed him to death during a robbery', and on here some go as far as to maintain that the "crime is irrelevant' when compared with the 'fact' that a man might have received the Death Sentence' based upon the fact that he is Gay - which is NOT the case at all but 'hey ho' this is TIBB so more of that later.

First, let's have the TRUTH about this 'stabbing during a robbery' and an insight into what type of human this Charles Rhines is - apart from the all-important characteristic of being 'Gay' of course.

22 year old shop worker Donnivan Shaeffer was terrified and compliant when he inadvertently disturbed Rhines during his robbery but:

“Rhines locked Donnivan’s head between his knees and pounded a hunting knife into the base of Donnivan’s skull, partially severing his brain stem,” the brief says. “Unaffected by the screams and blood and death, Rhines left the store with his loot to get something to eat ... an order of french fries.” Then there was his “bloodcurdling confession, in which he cackles while comparing young Donnivan’s death spasms to a beheaded chicken running around a barnyard.”

Callous, evil, boastful, and totally unrepentant then, but perhaps 10 years of incarceration changed Rhines? Made him more remorseful?

In 2002, Joel Schwader was working as a Rapid City newspaper columnist hit on the idea of writing to death row inmates to see what life was really like on death row. Is it as bad as people thought, or did they lead a nice, cozy life?” Schwader said. He wrote to all five men waiting to be executed.

Charles Rhines, who was sentenced for Murder in 1993, was the first to respond. He said, all things considered, his life wasn’t that bad. He even had a sense of humor. “Personally speaking, I think I’d likely have gotten another murder conviction had I been forced to spend the last nine years in a cell with Donald Moeller or Ron Anderson. They’re both okay individuals to speak with, but I don’t think I could handle spending 23 1/4 hours per day in a cell with them without resorting to violence,” Schwader read from Rhines’ letter.

Rhines’ continues; “As for letting the people of South Dakota know what life on Death Row is really like, well, perhaps we’d be better off not telling anyone. It’s not as if they chain us to a wall and feed us with sling shots,” Schwader read from Rhines’ letter.

“While I’m getting rather long-winded, supper is nearing. It might even be edible tonight. It’s never fancy, but usually okay.

Sincerely yours,

Charles R. Rhines.”

But, of course NONE of the above is 'relevant' to some on this site - not the horrific manner in which he slaughtered his cowered innocent victim while he screamed for mercy, nor the evil manner in which he grinned and cackled whilst boasting to detectives that poor young Donnivan Shaeffer's death spasms resembled "a beheaded chicken running around a barnyard” nor even the totally incredulous and callous manner in which he "left the store with his loot to get something to eat ... an order of french fries.”

No - NONE of the above swayed that jury to seek the Death Penalty, only the fact that Rhines was Gay and might 'enjoy life imprisonment in a men's prison'.

What a load of TOSH.

As recently as he 6th of June 2018 - some 25 years after the trial - , the hugely respected and independent 'Marshall Project' news organistion asked; 'What really happened in the jury room?' and to help secure answers, Maurice Chammah visited three of the original jurors.

Hammah writes:

"I reached out to three jurors — one quoted by the defense, one quoted by the prosecution, and one quoted by both sides — and the picture grew even muddier.

Former juror Frances Cersosimo said last week that she vividly remembers a juror saying that Rhines might not mind life in prison because he was gay. “There was a murmuring, everyone said ‘Whaaat?” Cersosimo recalled.

Immediately, this man admitted “it was a stupid thing to say...I don’t know why I said that.” The South Dakota state investigator characterized this as a “joke,” though Cersosimo insisted, “It was not a joke.” (The juror she recalled being the one who said this declined to comment.)

In another affidavit collected by the defense, juror Harry Keeney admits the knowledge of Rhines’s homosexuality affected his decision. His signature appears shaky and the state says this is because he has dementia. His wife Janet Keeney confirmed to The Marshall Project this is true. “I think he didn’t say that,” she said of the comment in question. “I wouldn’t depend upon it.” “We’d just come back from a vacation,” she added. “We were tired...The average person can’t remember what happened 25 years ago.”

Hammah continues:

"The jurors I reached all said that they sentenced Rhines to death primarily because of the nature of the murder."

“The pictures of the kid, he way he bragged about the kid begging for his life. Those things never leave your head,” said juror Delight McGriff, who has no memory of any comments about homosexuality, though she admitted “this was a long time ago.”

In addition, despite the hysterical reaching of some to the contrary, NO ONE stated that Rhines would enjoy life imprisonment with men because he was a homosexual apart from one juror who claimed it was a joke and who immediately regretted his 'stupid' comment.

To me, it DOES seem more like a bad joke than a serious comment, but the point is that the majority of jurors took exception to the homophobic comment - joke or not - and did NOT 'row in' with this juror's homophobia.

Even Hammah states that the jurors he reached out to ALL concluded that they had passed the Death Sentence NOT because of any other consideration but the horrific nature of the crime and the killer's evil boasting and complete lack of humanity.

So NO death Sentence passed because the depraved coward killer was 'Gay' then only compelling evidence that the sole homophobic comment made repulsed the rest of thejurors and did not play any part in the majority decision.

For the record, before the jurors decided Charles Rhines fate having just found him guilty of fatally stabbing 22-year-old Donnivan Schaeffer, they sent a handwritten note to the judge with QUESTIONS which they needed answering for clarification:

If they didn’t vote for the death penalty, what would his life in prison look like? Would he be “allowed to mix with the general inmate population”? Would he be able “to create a group of followers or admirers”? Would he have a cellmate?

The judge said that he was unable to answer and the jury then determined the Death Penalty.

The RIGHT decision in my opinion,but one reached according to NOTHING but the horrific nature of the crime and the even more horrific nature of the killer.

Anything else is tiresome hysterical 'reaching' and hyperbole - also in my opinion.

Well researched Kirk. A bit of sanity on the subject at last!

[Brillopad]

And that's the point of this thread. Regardless of the crime, there is evidence to suggest that someone has been sentenced based not on their crime but their sexuality. That is the issue here.

That’s what you want to think as it means you can get up there on your soapbox! The usual hysterical garbage when there is any mention of perceived discrimination of minorities. :bored:

[Marsh.]

Any pity I have is saved for the victim and their family

Yet if the story was "Heterosexual given severe sentence by gay judge for being straight" you'd be first in the queue to slag them off.

So predictable.

[GoldHeart]

Well researched Kirk. A bit of sanity on the subject at last!

:clap1:
I read it all
It just confirms what an evil person this killer is , no remorse and even gloating about what he did :shocked: utter sicko ! .

It's funny how nobody mentioned any of this full detailed information :suspect: , instead it's all about his sexuality . What about the victim and his family and the horrible crime itself .

As I suspected things were misconstrued and taken out of context as per usual :bored: .

[Marsh.]

Because the debate isn't about whether he was guilty of his crime, nor whether he should be punished.

But whether the punishment should be chosen based on his sexuality, not his crime.

But, yes, twist to fit your own agenda.

[Brillopad]

:clap1:
I read it all
It just confirms what an evil person this killer is , no remorse and even gloating about what he did :shocked: utter sicko ! .

It's funny how nobody mentioned any of this full detailed information :suspect: , instead it's all about his sexuality . What about the victim and his family and the horrible crime itself .

As I suspected things were misconstrued and taken out of context as per usual :bored: .

And those doubting the story were supposed to be the uncaring and discriminating ones. What a joke! As you say those getting all hysterical about discrimination showed no compassion for that poor victim and his family - just the animal who so brutally murdered him because he is gay - they just wanted to obsess about so-called discrimination and point-score. Sickening. I hope the cold-blooded, twisted murderer rots in hell and every part of his gay body suffers - not because he is gay but because he is an evil bast**d! Some people need to get their priorities right!

[Brillopad]

Because the debate isn't about whether he was guilty of his crime, nor whether he should be punished.

But whether the punishment should be chosen based on his sexuality, not his crime.

But, yes, twist to fit your own agenda.

I think the ones with agendas stood out a mile and it wasn’t the doubters. The usual hysterics on such subjects.

[Marsh.]

I think the ones with agendas stood out a mile and it wasn’t the doubters. The usual hysterics on such subjects.Of course it did.

:rolleyes:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Because the debate isn't about whether he was guilty of his crime, nor whether he should be punished.

But whether the punishment should be chosen based on his sexuality, not his crime.

But, yes, twist to fit your own agenda.

"The jurors I reached all said that they sentenced Rhines to death primarily because of the nature of the murder."


can we now have your reaction?

[Beso]

You're still missing the point.

It's not about getting the murderer freed or anything like that, it's about getting him the same punishment as anyone else would in the same situation. This situation needs to be investigated and the sentencing, if found to be discriminatory, needs to be re-evaluated. You can't push to sentence a gay man to die because he 'might enjoy living with men in prison'. As I said before, that sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to gay people getting harsher sentences than their straight counterparts.

You can gloss over it all you want but all that achieves is condoning discriminatory treatment in the law.

Saying all that, wouldnt a gay person get a lighter sentence?

Say if he was straight abd comitted a theft he would get jail time...but if a gay person did the same crime they would be spared jail because they might enjoy it:shrug:

[Brillopad]

Saying all that, wouldnt a gay person get a lighter sentence?

Say if he was straight abd comitted a theft he would get jail time...but if a gay person did the same crime they would be spared jail because they might enjoy it:shrug:

Wouldn't that be a case of positive discrimination yet again. Only in this mad PC world!

[chuff me dizzy]

The innocent victim of cowardly 'Gay' monster Charles Rhines was just a 22 years old 'ordinary' kid who just happened to be at his rightful place of work when Rhines decided to rob the place.

As with some on here, most of the internet sites with an agenda to push refrain from mentioning anything but the skimpiest details of the crime other than; 'Rhines stabbed him to death during a robbery', and on here some go as far as to maintain that the "crime is irrelevant' when compared with the 'fact' that a man might have received the Death Sentence' based upon the fact that he is Gay - which is NOT the case at all but 'hey ho' this is TIBB so more of that later.

First, let's have the TRUTH about this 'stabbing during a robbery' and an insight into what type of human this Charles Rhines is - apart from the all-important characteristic of being 'Gay' of course.

22 year old shop worker Donnivan Shaeffer was terrified and compliant when he inadvertently disturbed Rhines during his robbery but:

“Rhines locked Donnivan’s head between his knees and pounded a hunting knife into the base of Donnivan’s skull, partially severing his brain stem,” the brief says. “Unaffected by the screams and blood and death, Rhines left the store with his loot to get something to eat ... an order of french fries.” Then there was his “bloodcurdling confession, in which he cackles while comparing young Donnivan’s death spasms to a beheaded chicken running around a barnyard.”

Callous, evil, boastful, and totally unrepentant then, but perhaps 10 years of incarceration changed Rhines? Made him more remorseful?

In 2002, Joel Schwader was working as a Rapid City newspaper columnist hit on the idea of writing to death row inmates to see what life was really like on death row. Is it as bad as people thought, or did they lead a nice, cozy life?” Schwader said. He wrote to all five men waiting to be executed.

Charles Rhines, who was sentenced for Murder in 1993, was the first to respond. He said, all things considered, his life wasn’t that bad. He even had a sense of humor. “Personally speaking, I think I’d likely have gotten another murder conviction had I been forced to spend the last nine years in a cell with Donald Moeller or Ron Anderson. They’re both okay individuals to speak with, but I don’t think I could handle spending 23 1/4 hours per day in a cell with them without resorting to violence,” Schwader read from Rhines’ letter.

Rhines’ continues; “As for letting the people of South Dakota know what life on Death Row is really like, well, perhaps we’d be better off not telling anyone. It’s not as if they chain us to a wall and feed us with sling shots,” Schwader read from Rhines’ letter.

“While I’m getting rather long-winded, supper is nearing. It might even be edible tonight. It’s never fancy, but usually okay.

Sincerely yours,

Charles R. Rhines.”

But, of course NONE of the above is 'relevant' to some on this site - not the horrific manner in which he slaughtered his cowered innocent victim while he screamed for mercy, nor the evil manner in which he grinned and cackled whilst boasting to detectives that poor young Donnivan Shaeffer's death spasms resembled "a beheaded chicken running around a barnyard” nor even the totally incredulous and callous manner in which he "left the store with his loot to get something to eat ... an order of french fries.”

No - NONE of the above swayed that jury to seek the Death Penalty, only the fact that Rhines was Gay and might 'enjoy life imprisonment in a men's prison'.

What a load of TOSH.

As recently as he 6th of June 2018 - some 25 years after the trial - , the hugely respected and independent 'Marshall Project' news organistion asked; 'What really happened in the jury room?' and to help secure answers, Maurice Chammah visited three of the original jurors.

Hammah writes:

"I reached out to three jurors — one quoted by the defense, one quoted by the prosecution, and one quoted by both sides — and the picture grew even muddier.

Former juror Frances Cersosimo said last week that she vividly remembers a juror saying that Rhines might not mind life in prison because he was gay. “There was a murmuring, everyone said ‘Whaaat?” Cersosimo recalled.

Immediately, this man admitted “it was a stupid thing to say...I don’t know why I said that.” The South Dakota state investigator characterized this as a “joke,” though Cersosimo insisted, “It was not a joke.” (The juror she recalled being the one who said this declined to comment.)

In another affidavit collected by the defense, juror Harry Keeney admits the knowledge of Rhines’s homosexuality affected his decision. His signature appears shaky and the state says this is because he has dementia. His wife Janet Keeney confirmed to The Marshall Project this is true. “I think he didn’t say that,” she said of the comment in question. “I wouldn’t depend upon it.” “We’d just come back from a vacation,” she added. “We were tired...The average person can’t remember what happened 25 years ago.”

Hammah continues:

"The jurors I reached all said that they sentenced Rhines to death primarily because of the nature of the murder."

“The pictures of the kid, he way he bragged about the kid begging for his life. Those things never leave your head,” said juror Delight McGriff, who has no memory of any comments about homosexuality, though she admitted “this was a long time ago.”

In addition, despite the hysterical reaching of some to the contrary, NO ONE stated that Rhines would enjoy life imprisonment with men because he was a homosexual apart from one juror who claimed it was a joke and who immediately regretted his 'stupid' comment.

To me, it DOES seem more like a bad joke than a serious comment, but the point is that the majority of jurors took exception to the homophobic comment - joke or not - and did NOT 'row in' with this juror's homophobia.

Even Hammah states that the jurors he reached out to ALL concluded that they had passed the Death Sentence NOT because of any other consideration but the horrific nature of the crime and the killer's evil boasting and complete lack of humanity.

So NO death Sentence passed because the depraved coward killer was 'Gay' then only compelling evidence that the sole homophobic comment made repulsed the rest of thejurors and did not play any part in the majority decision.

For the record, before the jurors decided Charles Rhines fate having just found him guilty of fatally stabbing 22-year-old Donnivan Schaeffer, they sent a handwritten note to the judge with QUESTIONS which they needed answering for clarification:

If they didn’t vote for the death penalty, what would his life in prison look like? Would he be “allowed to mix with the general inmate population”? Would he be able “to create a group of followers or admirers”? Would he have a cellmate?

The judge said that he was unable to answer and the jury then determined the Death Penalty.

The RIGHT decision in my opinion,but one reached according to NOTHING but the horrific nature of the crime and the even more horrific nature of the killer.

Anything else is tiresome hysterical 'reaching' and hyperbole - also in my opinion.

Brilliant piece Kirk ,but blasts " he was only given death penalty because he is gay " right out of the window !!:joker:

[bots]

also, the murder was committed in 1993, there have been 25 years for appeals to be heard .... 25 years!

[Beso]

also, the murder was committed in 1993, there have been 25 years for appeals to be heard .... 25 years!

Oh thats just nasty..all those cute buttocks he has been watching from his cell window, unable to touch.

[Twosugars]

Oh thats just nasty..all those cute buttocks he has been watching from his cell window, unable to touch.

At least he had something to admire. Pity straight prisoners who eventually end up doing the same :hee:

[chuff me dizzy]

I think the ones with agendas stood out a mile and it wasn’t the doubters. The usual hysterics on such subjects.

Spot on my lovely

[Northern Monkey]

Well done DI Kirk.

It did seem quite unbelievable that a whole jury would come to the decision of the death penalty ‘because he’s gay’.
You’re maybe likely to get one maybe two homophobics on a jury but not the whole jury.
Atleast somebody would speak out.

The NY Times should be ashamed of themselves.They’ve made their agenda pretty transparent.

[Brillopad]

Well done DI Kirk.

It did seem quite unbelievable that a whole jury would come to the decision of the death penalty ‘because he’s gay’.
You’re maybe likely to get one maybe two homophobics on a jury but not the whole jury.
Atleast somebody would speak out.

The NY Times should be ashamed of themselves.They’ve made their agenda pretty transparent.

Not to mention some of those on here. Commonsense flies out the window when there is an agenda on the table.

[chuff me dizzy]

Not to mention some of those on here. Commonsense flies out the window when there is an agenda on the table.

So true ,its par for the course and pretty boring now too

[Niamh.]

Can you all please stick to the thread topic which isn't "eachother", thanks.

[Tom4784]

That’s what you want to think as it means you can get up there on your soapbox! The usual hysterical garbage when there is any mention of perceived discrimination of minorities. :bored:

It got investigated, that's all I wanted.

[Beso]

Can you all please stick to the thread topic which isn't "eachother", thanks.

ALL.:nono:

[Niamh.]

ALL.:nono:

Yes that's what I said?

[Beso]

Yes that's what I said?

:nono:

[Niamh.]

Parmnion if you have an issue or question please PM a mod or admin, stop derailing the thread and trying to cause trouble. This is a warning to drop it or take it to PM, just to be clear

[Marsh.]

"The jurors I reached all said that they sentenced Rhines to death primarily because of the nature of the murder."


can we now have your reaction?My reaction to what?

The point of the discussion was whether a man deserved a harsher punishment due to his sexuality.

This got twisted into people suggesting a murderer didn't deserve a harsh sentence for murder.

That's misrepresenting what was being talked about and what my post was directed at.

I don't recall stating I knew how and why the jury came to the decision they did.

[GoldHeart]

also, the murder was committed in 1993, there have been 25 years for appeals to be heard .... 25 years!

Yeah I only realised last night that it was an old case !!! Jeez :facepalm: , so yeah plenty of time indeed . And let's not forget a horrible murder was committed so I have no sympathy for the criminal, especially when he bragged in Glee about what he'd done,no shed of remorse . Truly disgusting ! , sympathy should go towards the victim's family.

The responses were as if this happened this year ! :bored: .

[Niamh.]

Yeah I only realised last night that it was an old case !!! Jeez :facepalm: , so yeah plenty of time indeed . And let's not forget a horrible murder was committed so I have no sympathy for the criminal, especially when he bragged in Glee about what he'd done,no shed of remorse . Truly disgusting ! , sympathy should go towards the victim's family.

The responses were as if this happened this year ! :bored: .

The sun must be messing with my head, when I read your post my first though was "He was in Glee?" :facepalm:

[GoldHeart]

The sun must be messing with my head, when I read your post my first though was "He was in Glee?" :facepalm:

:joker: No

[chuff me dizzy]

Yeah I only realised last night that it was an old case !!! Jeez :facepalm: , so yeah plenty of time indeed . And let's not forget a horrible murder was committed so I have no sympathy for the criminal, especially when he bragged in Glee about what he'd done,no shed of remorse . Truly disgusting ! , sympathy should go towards the victim's family.

The responses were as if this happened this year ! :bored: .

Totally agree, any pity should go to the victim and their family

[GoldHeart]

Well done DI Kirk.

It did seem quite unbelievable that a whole jury would come to the decision of the death penalty ‘because he’s gay’.
You’re maybe likely to get one maybe two homophobics on a jury but not the whole jury.
Atleast somebody would speak out.

The NY Times should be ashamed of themselves.They’ve made their agenda pretty transparent.

:clap1:
So true !
My thoughts as well

And even if the jury were predjudiced AF ! it would of been investigated for a fair outcome.

And usually juries are supposed to be a mixture of different people both men & women & diverse .

[Marsh.]

Yeah I only realised last night that it was an old case !!! Jeez :facepalm: , so yeah plenty of time indeed . And let's not forget a horrible murder was committed so I have no sympathy for the criminal, especially when he bragged in Glee about what he'd done,no shed of remorse . Truly disgusting ! , sympathy should go towards the victim's family.

The responses were as if this happened this year ! :bored: .

The responses were solely on the idea that someone's sentenced could be changed based on their sexuality.

I don't think anyone questions the seriousness and horror of the crime committed. Nor would they have sympathy for such a criminal.

[Beso]

Totally agree, any pity should go to the victim and their family

:clap1: