Algeria abandons 13,000 migrants in the Sahara

[Underscore]

Algeria has abandoned more than 13,000 people in the Sahara Desert over the past 14 months, including pregnant women and children, expelling them without food or water and forcing them to walk, sometimes at gunpoint, under a blistering sun. Some never make it out alive.

The expelled migrants can be seen coming over the horizon by the hundreds, appearing at first as specks in the distance under temperatures of up to 48 C.

In Niger, where the majority head, the lucky ones limp across a desolate 15-kilometre no-man's-land to the border village of Assamaka. Others wander for days before a UN rescue squad can find them. Untold numbers perish; nearly all of the more than two dozen survivors interviewed by The Associated Press told of people in their groups who simply vanished into the Sahara.

"Women were lying dead, men..... Other people got missing in the desert because they didn't know the way," said Janet Kamara, who was pregnant at the time. "Everybody was just on their own."

'I lost my son'
In a voice almost devoid of feeling, she recalled at least two nights in the open before her group was rescued, but said she lost track of time.

"I lost my son, my child," said Kamara, who is Liberian.

Another woman in her early twenties also went into labour and lost her baby, she said.

Algeria's mass expulsions have picked up since October 2017, as the European Union renewed pressure on North African countries to head off migrants going north to Europe via the Mediterranean Sea or the barrier fences with Spain.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/algeria-desert-walk-gunpoint-1.4720446

This is ****ing disgusting, how can humans do this... Murder!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Same reasons if 100folk turned up in your garden wanting to stay and eat and use your WiFi you would lock your doors

:rolleyes:

[Beso]

Oh right...

Are they saying algeria are sending people that were already there...or sending the specs of dust suddenly appering en mass on the horizon?

[Cherie]

They are doing it to migrants, but that’s fine I guess as long as we let the Algerians in when they come knocking

[Beso]

I dont get this...these people either walked through a desert to get to algeria.....feed them up, then send them right back the way they came.


Or arrived by boat....and algeria sent them back through the desert...sick bastard who decided that.

[Tom4784]

The lack of empathy would be worrying if it wasn't so predictable.

[Beso]

The lack of empathy would be worrying if it wasn't so predictable.

I hope thats not referring to me and my two scenarios?

[Cherie]

Or me

[Cal.]

That is disgusting omg

[Tom4784]

Surprisingly, not everything I say or do revolves around either of you, so no.

[bots]

It's a sorry state for sure, but lets be clear, it doesn't really matter where people are dropped off in that particular region, its going to be inhospitable. Without supplies, people are ****ed

[Beso]

Surprisingly, not everything I say or do revolves around either of you, so no.


Why doesn't it surprise you that algeria have acted with so little empathy?

[Cherie]

Surprisingly, not everything I say or do revolves around either of you, so no.

:laugh:

[Amy Jade]

Horrific. Sending innocent people to death basically.

[Tom4784]

Why doesn't it surprise you that algeria have acted with so little empathy?

It's the direction the world is moving in and we're moving at a worrying pace. Why fix the real problems each country faces when immigrants can be dehumanised and blamed for all the ills in the world?

I said either yesterday or the day before that it wouldn't surprise me if the US start killing people at the border with firing squads and **** but Algeria got to that point first, they just used a different method.

[arista]

Strange this is not on any main news?

[Underscore]

Strange this is not on any main news?

It was on Sky News last night

https://news.sky.com/video/catastrophe-as-migrants-abandoned-in-sahara-11416420

[Beso]

It's the direction the world is moving in and we're moving at a worrying pace. Why fix the real problems each country faces when immigrants can be dehumanised and blamed for all the ills in the world?

I said either yesterday or the day before that it wouldn't surprise me if the US start killing people at the border with firing squads and **** but Algeria got to that point first, they just used a different method.

Yes, but why algeria, surely algeria is a country with a mainly muslim population...so i cant see why it wouldnt surprise you...it should surprise us...surely!!

Anyhow, i dont believe you, i think ut was an underhand personal attack on your fellow forum users....

You just aint got the nerve to quote them..

[Crimson Dynamo]

So profiteers make money by lying to young people and then round them up and dump them at the Algerian border and Algeria are supposed to welcome them and feed and house them, I guess they are saying er no, that is not how it works and stopping them. The fault is not Algeria but the people who dump these people at their door and make money out of it.

I would also note in the somewhat hysterical articles I have read its full of anecdotal stories from the migrants and very little else

[Tom4784]

Yes, but why algeria, surely algeria is a country with a mainly muslim population...so i cant see why it wouldnt surprise you...it should surprise us...surely!!

Anyhow, i dont believe you, i think ut was an underhand personal attack on your fellow forum users....

You just aint got the nerve to quote them..

I explained why, it's pretty simple but I suppose you need an excuse to go on the attack I guess.

[Beso]

I explained why, it's pretty simple but I suppose you need an excuse to go on the attack I guess.

Defence dear boy, defence.

[Tom4784]

It's the direction the world is moving in and we're moving at a worrying pace. Why fix the real problems each country faces when immigrants can be dehumanised and blamed for all the ills in the world?

I said either yesterday or the day before that it wouldn't surprise me if the US start killing people at the border with firing squads and **** but Algeria got to that point first, they just used a different method.

Because reading is hard.

[arista]

It was on Sky News last night

https://news.sky.com/video/catastrophe-as-migrants-abandoned-in-sahara-11416420


Thank you Underscore

Sad story , for sure

[Beso]

Because reading is hard.

But yesterday....the world was in uproar at trumps border crossing...yesterday the world was in uproar at dead kids on beaches.....so again...why say its the way the worlds moving.

[Tom4784]

But yesterday....the world was in uproar at trumps border crossing...yesterday the world was in uproar at dead kids on beaches.....so again...why say its the way the worlds moving.

Because people are caring less and less about it.

If another immigrant child washes up on the beach, you'd get way more people who would just shrug it off and not care one bit. It would not get the same amount of empathy that the first incident created because we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected.

[Beso]

Because people are caring less and less about it.

If another immigrant child washes up on the beach, you'd get way more people who would just shrug it off and not care one bit. It would not get the same amount of empathy that the first incident created because we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected.

In every country:shrug:...or just the usa, where for some reason you seem to think you live in.

[Tom4784]

In every country:shrug:...or just the usa, where for some reason you seem to think you live in.

Oh look, another personal attack in place of an actual response.

Many countries are taking hostile views on immigration, there's a definite rise in extreme alt right groups in Europe for example that should have everyone both left and right worried.

[bots]

Oh look, another personal attack in place of an actual response.

Many countries are taking hostile views on immigration, there's a definite rise in extreme alt right groups in Europe for example that should have everyone both left and right worried.

The reason for the rise in alt right groups is easily attributable though, to the intransigence of the EU policy makers (driven by Merkel). If the EU hadn't implemented the ludicrous policies they had, the alt right would have had no support. People like a balance, and thats all they are requesting here.

[kirklancaster]

Because people are caring less and less about it.

If another immigrant child washes up on the beach, you'd get way more people who would just shrug it off and not care one bit. It would not get the same amount of empathy that the first incident created because we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected.

I've deliberately been staying away from most SD threads which have descended into a feckfest of extreme B.S-riddled hyperbole - in my opinion -but this is so wrong on all counts.

All around the world, people in general STILL care about tragedies such as drowning immigrants, senseless terrorist atrocities, increasing lawlessness and urban violence, and a host of other depressing trends which litter or have littered the news.

From dead immigrant babies washed up on foreign shores to dead babies in the UK who have been failed by Social Services and abused, tortured and ultimately killed by their parents, or dead toddlers horrifically tortured and sadistically murdered by other children - DECENT people STILL have Sympathy and Empathy, and MOST people ARE decent.

To state with such supreme authority and finality that "people are caring less and less about it." is - whether erroneously or by design - a totally presumptuous and false statement which is without any foundation.

The media select which 'news' will headline and which 'news' will or will not even be reported on.

Because no recent ISIS beheadings of innocent people or other atrocities are being reported by our newspapers or TV stations does not mean that such atrocities are not still occurring but what it does mean is that such news is no longer in the Public Arena - the spotlight - and therefore the general public are not discussing it or commenting on it with the same degree of fervour that they would otherwise be.

This can not EVER be interpreted as the 'Public' no longer caring and to attempt to portray it as such is simply unfair to the majority of people WORLD-WIDE who are as caring and decent as they have ever been and probably more concerned than they have ever been.

As for your statement that: "we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected." I would love to see proof of this.

Or is the above sweeping statement yet more personal unqualified opinion cloaked as authoritative fact?

If you are referring to the election of Trump in the USA and the rise of Right Wing political parties throughout Europe, then this is DEMOCRACY IN ACTION - the result of the increasingly concerned people in those countries RECOGNISING that the damage which has been done to their countries by decades of insane Neo-Liberal and Left-Wing policies NEEDED to be addressed and remedied, and accordingly and democratically, those people have spoken through the ballot box.

It is no coincidence that most of the countries where the Right-Wing HAVE gained traction are the very countries most adversely affected by the EU and the consequences of its shambolic policies - most notably the chaos which is the Migrant crisis.

There is also a growing recognition in people generally of how 'Fake News' and 'Tragic Imagery' is being cynically used by extremist political organisations on both the Left and Right to further their agendas - the washed-up dead immigrant child and the 'crying 2-year-old Honduran girl' so dishonestly placed with 'an overlooking Trump' by Time magazine being two examples - and this tempers any PUBLIC outpouring of the natural reaction of empathy, anger, and horror which the public do still feel.

[Brillopad]

I've deliberately been staying away from most SD threads which have descended into a feckfest of extreme B.S-riddled hyperbole - in my opinion -but this is so wrong on all counts.

All around the world, people in general STILL care about tragedies such as drowning immigrants, senseless terrorist atrocities, increasing lawlessness and urban violence, and a host of other depressing trends which litter or have littered the news.

From dead immigrant babies washed up on foreign shores to dead babies in the UK who have been failed by Social Services and abused, tortured and ultimately killed by their parents, or dead toddlers horrifically tortured and sadistically murdered by other children - DECENT people STILL have Sympathy and Empathy, and MOST people ARE decent.

To state with such supreme authority and finality that "people are caring less and less about it." is - whether erroneously or by design - a totally presumptuous and false statement which is without any foundation.

The media select which 'news' will headline and which 'news' will or will not even be reported on.

Because no recent ISIS beheadings of innocent people or other atrocities are being reported by our newspapers or TV stations does not mean that such atrocities are not still occurring but what it does mean is that such news is no longer in the Public Arena - the spotlight - and therefore the general public are not discussing it or commenting on it with the same degree of fervour that they would otherwise be.

This can not EVER be interpreted as the 'Public' no longer caring and to attempt to portray it as such is simply unfair to the majority of people WORLD-WIDE who are as caring and decent as they have ever been and probably more concerned than they have ever been.

As for your statement that: "we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected." I would love to see proof of this.

Or is the above sweeping statement yet more personal unqualified opinion cloaked as authoritative fact?

If you are referring to the election of Trump in the USA and the rise of Right Wing political parties throughout Europe, then this is DEMOCRACY IN ACTION - the result of the increasingly concerned people in those countries RECOGNISING that the damage which has been done to their countries by decades of insane Neo-Liberal and Left-Wing policies NEEDED to be addressed and remedied, and accordingly and democratically, those people have spoken through the ballot box.

It is no coincidence that most of the countries where the Right-Wing HAVE gained traction are the very countries most adversely affected by the EU and the consequences of its shambolic policies - most notably the chaos which is the Migrant crisis.

There is also a growing recognition in people generally of how 'Fake News' and 'Tragic Imagery' is being cynically used by extremist political organisations on both the Left and Right to further their agendas - the washed-up dead immigrant child and the 'crying 2-year-old Honduran girl' so dishonestly placed with 'an overlooking Trump' by Time magazine being two examples - and this tempers any PUBLIC outpouring of the natural reaction of empathy, anger, and horror which the public do still feel.

Once again I agree with every word of that Kirk! Democracy is one way traffic with the far-left. Agree with their ideologies or get labelled - and they have many labels ready to stick - racism, bigotry, transphobia, homophobia, islamophobia, fascist, de-humatize, elitist... the list goes on.

Such behaviour is pre-meditated, deliberate, control-seeking rhetoric all aimed at intimidating people to shut the hell up. Thankfully the value of free-thought, free-speech and democracy has been instilled in all of us, whatever our views, by the great nations of the West and we will not be controlled. How does that famous expression go - sticks and stones...

The far-left can suck it up!

[Twosugars]

Once again I agree with every word of that Kirk! Democracy is one way traffic with the far-left. Agree with their ideologies or get labelled - and they have many labels ready to stick - racism, bigotry, transphobia, homophobia, islamophobia, fascist, de-humatize, elitist... the list goes on.

Such behaviour is pre-meditated, deliberate, control-seeking rhetoric all aimed at intimidating people to shut the hell up. Thankfully the value of free-thought and free-speech has been ingrained in all of us, whatever our views, by the great countries of the West and we will not be controlled.

Militant bigotry covers it nicely.

[Brillopad]

Militant bigotry covers it nicely.

Just another one to add to the list. Hence Brexit!

[Twosugars]

Because people are caring less and less about it.

If another immigrant child washes up on the beach, you'd get way more people who would just shrug it off and not care one bit. It would not get the same amount of empathy that the first incident created because we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected.

:clap1:

[Twosugars]

Just another one to add to the list. Hence Brexit!

Not bothered, have EU passport

[Brillopad]

:clap1:

Liars and halos - what an odd mix!

[Twosugars]

Liars and halos - what an odd mix!

:laugh:

[Brillopad]

Not bothered, have EU passport

You’re welcome to it!

[kirklancaster]

:clap1:

:laugh: Come on Twosugars - this applause is mere hollow gesture and has more to do with 'cocking a snook' at Brillopad's post than any genuine endorsement and appreciation of Dezzy's post.

[Twosugars]

:laugh: Come on Twosugars - this applause is mere hollow gesture and has more to do with 'cocking a snook' at Brillopad's post than any genuine endorsement and appreciation of Dezzy's post.

I've also stayed clear of SD. Bigotry depresses me which is not good for my health.
But I endorse Dezzy and others who argue for progressive not regressive politics.

On this issue well we live in callous times. All started with neoconservatives destabilising the region and provoking new wave of radical islam and displacement and migration. But now it is the lefts fault of course.

[kirklancaster]

I've also stayed clear of SD. Bigotry depresses me which is not good for my health.
But I endorse Dezzy and others who argue for progressive not regressive politics.

On this issue well we live in callous times. All started with neoconservatives destabilising the region and provoking new wave of radical islam and displacement and migration. But now it is the lefts fault of course.

I agree. SD is full of bigotry. Just who the bigots are though depends on one's politics I suppose.

[Beso]

Oh look, another personal attack in place of an actual response.

Many countries are taking hostile views on immigration, there's a definite rise in extreme alt right groups in Europe for example that should have everyone both left and right worried.

What has that got to do with dehumanising people to get elected?

You seem to have taken the fact that trumps in office, and used that to claim that the worlds leaders are being elected because they are dehumanising people....that baffled me and i am surprised you missed the response.

[Twosugars]

What has that got to do with dehumanising people to get elected?

You seem to have taken the fact that trumps in office, and used that to claim that the worlds leaders are being elected because they are dehumanising people....that baffled me and i am surprised you missed the response.
Trump is a good example, but there are others. Extreme right wing promoting the narrative of besieged nation that needs to close ranks, close borders, withdraw onto itself because it's survival is at stake. Hence outsiders are dehumanized as criminals, terrorists, danger to our way of living, basicaly a menace to be tackled by any means possible. **** the compassion and humanism.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Trump is a good example, but there are others. Extreme right wing promoting the narrative of besieged nation that needs to close ranks, close borders, withdraw onto itself because it's survival is at stake. Hence outsiders are dehumanized as criminals, terrorists, danger to our way of living, basicaly a menace to be tackled by any means possible. **** the compassion and humanism.

who are you talking about specifically?

[Twosugars]

who are you talking about specifically?
Trump, right wing in Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland, Hungary, Italy, Turkey, the list goes on

[Crimson Dynamo]

Trump, right wing in Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland, Hungary, Italy, Turkey, the list goes on

And you think their concerns are unfounded?

[Twosugars]

And you think their concerns are unfounded?

there are real problems at the root of those "concerns", that's all I can agree on as far as these people are concerned; I don't agree with their ideology, their definitions and their solutions.

[Tom4784]

The reason for the rise in alt right groups is easily attributable though, to the intransigence of the EU policy makers (driven by Merkel). If the EU hadn't implemented the ludicrous policies they had, the alt right would have had no support. People like a balance, and thats all they are requesting here.

You don't respond to an imbalance with extremism. that just imbalances things further. We are simply doomed to repeat history's mistakes.

[bots]

Why should prospering countries downgrade their security, standard of living and democratic principles for economic migrants, which is what the majority seeking relocation are?

Why shouldn't the regimes from where the come be held responsible for their peoples plight rather than putting that burden on others?

[Brillopad]

I've also stayed clear of SD. Bigotry depresses me which is not good for my health.
But I endorse Dezzy and others who argue for progressive not regressive politics.

On this issue well we live in callous times. All started with neoconservatives destabilising the region and provoking new wave of radical islam and displacement and migration. But now it is the lefts fault of course.

But what you fail to acknowledge is that ‘progressive politics’ means different things to different people. Your idea of progressive politics is not the same as someone else’s - so there is no definitive position on the ‘rights and wrongs’ on this issue.

[Brillopad]

You don't respond to an imbalance with extremism. that just imbalances things further. We are simply doomed to repeat history's mistakes.

If that was so the hard left and their controlling behaviour would have a big part to play in that!

[Tom4784]

I've deliberately been staying away from most SD threads which have descended into a feckfest of extreme B.S-riddled hyperbole - in my opinion -but this is so wrong on all counts.

All around the world, people in general STILL care about tragedies such as drowning immigrants, senseless terrorist atrocities, increasing lawlessness and urban violence, and a host of other depressing trends which litter or have littered the news.

From dead immigrant babies washed up on foreign shores to dead babies in the UK who have been failed by Social Services and abused, tortured and ultimately killed by their parents, or dead toddlers horrifically tortured and sadistically murdered by other children - DECENT people STILL have Sympathy and Empathy, and MOST people ARE decent.

To state with such supreme authority and finality that "people are caring less and less about it." is - whether erroneously or by design - a totally presumptuous and false statement which is without any foundation.

The media select which 'news' will headline and which 'news' will or will not even be reported on.

Because no recent ISIS beheadings of innocent people or other atrocities are being reported by our newspapers or TV stations does not mean that such atrocities are not still occurring but what it does mean is that such news is no longer in the Public Arena - the spotlight - and therefore the general public are not discussing it or commenting on it with the same degree of fervour that they would otherwise be.

This can not EVER be interpreted as the 'Public' no longer caring and to attempt to portray it as such is simply unfair to the majority of people WORLD-WIDE who are as caring and decent as they have ever been and probably more concerned than they have ever been.

As for your statement that: "we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected." I would love to see proof of this.

Or is the above sweeping statement yet more personal unqualified opinion cloaked as authoritative fact?

If you are referring to the election of Trump in the USA and the rise of Right Wing political parties throughout Europe, then this is DEMOCRACY IN ACTION - the result of the increasingly concerned people in those countries RECOGNISING that the damage which has been done to their countries by decades of insane Neo-Liberal and Left-Wing policies NEEDED to be addressed and remedied, and accordingly and democratically, those people have spoken through the ballot box.

It is no coincidence that most of the countries where the Right-Wing HAVE gained traction are the very countries most adversely affected by the EU and the consequences of its shambolic policies - most notably the chaos which is the Migrant crisis.

There is also a growing recognition in people generally of how 'Fake News' and 'Tragic Imagery' is being cynically used by extremist political organisations on both the Left and Right to further their agendas - the washed-up dead immigrant child and the 'crying 2-year-old Honduran girl' so dishonestly placed with 'an overlooking Trump' by Time magazine being two examples - and this tempers any PUBLIC outpouring of the natural reaction of empathy, anger, and horror which the public do still feel.

First bold point, of course people still care about child abuse IN the UK, they are British children after all. You only have to look at the US immigration child abuse thread and general response to it across the world to see that a lot of people simply no longer care if it's immigrant children that are facing abuse. You can deny it all you want but that doesn't really make what I'm saying any less true.

As for my statement about elections, look at the US and look at various EU countries that are seeing a rise in hate fuelled parties. You'd have to be completely wilfully ignoring what happened in the US election to think that Trump's dehumanisation of mexican people didn't play a huge part in his victory and rise to power.

As for the 'authoritive text' BS, I've never said that this was anything other than my opinion, what you've said in this sentence is simply a way of making my opinion seem more like I'm stating facts so you can discredit what I'm saying without actually putting any effort into it. Do I have to signify that everything I say is an informed opinion or can I trust in your reading comprehension skills to tell the difference in future?

Saying that Trump's election is democracy in action doesn't justify what he does with it. Plenty of countries in the past and present have had democratically elected leaders that have corrupted the process to their own advantage. You can't say DEMOCRACY and act like anyone who has a negative opinion on the leadership is somehow opposed to democracy. That's just a blatant attempt at disallowing opinions you disagree with by smearing them.

Finally you responded to a lot of my points saying they are unfounded (because they are informed opinions) but a lot of your time your responses have been basically 'people are still good!' but you've provided no real evidence of this like you've demanded of me. I think if you want your opinion to hold water, you need to provide something to go along with your opinion if you're going to try to repress other opinions like you have in this post.

[Tom4784]

If that was so the hard left and their controlling behaviour would have a big part to play in that!

Can you remember what I said a few days ago when I suspected you didn't realise there were different factions of the Right and how most of the Right dislike Alt Right and other extreme elements but you didn't know that because you'd jump into full on 'LEFT'S FAULT' mode whenever the alt right was brought up?

Well this kinda confirms my suspicions. I made a point of differentiating between the right and the alt right and even said that the right should be worried (which they are, no one wants to see the Alt Right gain prominence) but you've seen 'right' and gone into your usual left spiel although it has zero relevance to the discussion.

It might be a good idea to research what you are defending so vehemently.

[Brillopad]

Can you remember what I said a few days ago when I suspected you didn't realise there were different factions of the Right and how most of the Right dislike Alt Right and other extreme elements but you didn't know that because you'd jump into full on 'LEFT'S FAULT' mode whenever the alt right was brought up?

Well this kinda confirms my suspicions. I made a point of differentiating between the right and the alt right and even said that the right should be worried (which they are, no one wants to see the Alt Right gain prominence) but you've seen 'right' and gone into your usual left spiel although it has zero relevance to the discussion.

It might be a good idea to research what you are defending so vehemently.

Really! I seem to recall telling you that you shouldn’t imply that everyone who does not support mass immigration of economic migrants is far right. So don’t try to transfer your lack of understanding onto me.

Personally I believe that those that support this type of immigration despite the security risks its poses to our citizens and the increase of cultures incompatible with our own as well as trying to dictate against free-thought and free-speech via legislation are far-left.

And unless you can produce evidence of good research yourself it would be best not to try to lecture others. Practice what you preach!

[Tom4784]

Really! I seem to recall telling you that you shouldn’t imply that everyone who does not support mass immigration of economic migrants is far right. So don’t try to transfer your lack of understanding onto me.

Personally I believe that those that support this type of immigration despite the security risks its poses to our citizens and the increase of cultures incompatible with our own as well as trying to dictate against free-thought and free-speech via legislation are far-left.

And unless you can produce evidence of good research yourself it would be best not to try to lecture others. Practice what you preach!

This is another case of your imagination overwriting what I actually said...again. Honestly, this is becoming a problem. You take what people write, you ignore it and you just run with your own narrative. A very toxic attitude when it comes to debates.

You can believe what you want but it doesn't make it factually correct. The far left certainly isn't everyone who supports immigration (or, more specifically, it seems, anyone that doesn't share your views). You talk of free speech but in truth you just want your own opinion to be heard whilst shutting down any voices that aren't aligned with yours. What you want is controlled speech that benefits you. Acting like opposing freedoms is something that only the left does is again, simply not correct. There are plenty of right leaning groups that want the same.

The problem is that you think left and right is a black and white issue and it's not. It's all grey. There are far left groups just like there are far right groups and neither define each side but you are determined to simplify it just so you can blame the left for all the ills in the world.

[Brillopad]

This is another case of your imagination overwriting what I actually said...again. Honestly, this is becoming a problem. You take what people write, you ignore it and you just run with your own narrative. A very toxic attitude when it comes to debates.

You can believe what you want but it doesn't make it factually correct. The far left certainly isn't everyone who supports immigration (or, more specifically, it seems, anyone that doesn't share your views). You talk of free speech but in truth you just want your own opinion to be heard whilst shutting down any voices that aren't aligned with yours. What you want is controlled speech that benefits you. Acting like opposing freedoms is something that only the left does is again, simply not correct. There are plenty of right leaning groups that want the same.

The problem is that you think left and right is a black and white issue and it's not. It's all grey. There are far left groups just like there are far right groups and neither define each side but you are determined to simplify it just so you can blame the left for all the ills in the world.

You accuse me of things I have accused you of on several occasions in the past. Trying to turn it around on me is fruitless.

As I said I am well aware of this so don’t try preaching to me to give the impression you know best - you don’t.

[Tom4784]

You accuse me of things I have accused you of on several occasions in the past. Trying to turn it around on me is fruitless.

As I said I am well aware of this so don’t try preaching to me to give the impression you know best - you don’t.

You've never accused me of anything what I've written in that post because you've shown that you don't understand the intricacies of the left and right. You've just parroted what I said and tried to turn it on me with your 'I know you are but what am I?' routine which is what you always do when you're losing an argument and can't think of anything to respond with.

Your imagined versions of what people write and what they actually wrote are two different things, you need to try to focus on what people actually write.