Favourite branch of Christianity

[Redway]

Christians and non-Christians alike - what branch of Christianity are you either aligned to (christened or born into) or most attracted to/would consider if you did become Christian?

[Eddie.]

Roman Catholicism because I am one...

[Kazanne]

Protestantism (including Anglican)

[kirklancaster]

I unashamedly and emphatically believe in God and that the historical Jesus is the Christ, but I do not believe in 'Man', therefore I do not belong to any orthodox Christian Church and I do not attend church.

[Niamh.]

I was born into Catholicism but when I could think for myself decided it all seemed very illogical and as Kirk says "man made" and you can't trust humans to tell the truth and not twist things to suit their own agendas so i wouldn't really be a fan of any religions

[Crimson Dynamo]

Has to be Orthodox for me

mainly due to the outfits

[Marsh.]

All of them are lovely girls.

[Niamh.]

All of them are lovely girls.

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/3876705/original/?width=360&version=3876705

[Marsh.]

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/3876705/original/?width=360&version=3876705

:joker::joker:

[Calderyon]

Lutherian, which is part of protestantism.

[kirklancaster]

http://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/3876705/original/?width=360&version=3876705

:laugh:

[kirklancaster]

Lutherian, which is part of protestantism.

Without the 'Bells and Whistles', Caldy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I like the cut of the Wee Free's jib

[Maru]

I guess we have a lot more to choose from in the States.. this poll doesn't look anything like the full menu of Christianity we have in the US

My least favorite denomation is prosperity gospel... Joel Osteen must have a really good dentist though... my paternal grandmother is Catholic and I feel like she and her sisters are actually practicing compared to my peers, are more connected as a community and I feel like the church here is less watered down than other denominations... many churches here now are aiming towards prosperity gospel and are Christianity Light... with exception to Baptist, which my family supposedly is rooted in and it is known to be fire & brimstone, Southernly, but strict... However, my grandmother had an abusive step-dad who was also a Pastor and did things to her and her sisters growing up. So unsurprisingly, we were never church-going growing up... I don't think it really affected her faith though.

[user104658]

I guess we have a lot more to choose from in the States.. this poll doesn't look anything like the full menu of Christianity we have in the US

My least favorite denomation is prosperity gospel... Joel Osteen must have a really good dentist though... my paternal grandmother is Catholic and I feel like she and her sisters are actually practicing compared to my peers, are more connected as a community and I feel like the church here is less watered down than other denominations... many churches here now are aiming towards prosperity gospel and are Christianity Light... with exception to Baptist, which my family supposedly is rooted in and it is known to be fire & brimstone, Southernly, but strict... However, my grandmother had an abusive step-dad who was also a Pastor and did things to her and her sisters growing up. So unsurprisingly, we were never church-going growing up... I don't think it really affected her faith though.

As far as I understand it, most forms of Christianity that are not an Orthodox or part of Catholicism are technically Protestant - it's just that in the US especially there are a LOT of different varieties of that, and they can be very different from each other and totally different to "classic" Church-of-England style Protestantism. But yeah... they'd generally either be evolutions of classical Protestantism, and so still Protestant, or new offshoots from Catholicism which would make them "new Protestant".



I was christened Church of Scotland so I've voted Protestant in the poll -- but none are my "favourite" and I would never be a practicing Christian of any variety.

[Kizzy]

All of them are lovely girls.

Craggy Island is the only place I consider Catholicism acceptable :)

[Crimson Dynamo]

I guess you are a practicing religionist by going to church once a week for an hour and murmuring under your chin and looking serious?

[Kizzy]

No! it's even easier than that... You can not go to any place of worship, or observe any religious festival whatsoever, conduct yourself in a manner that's counter to any religious doctrine and just say 'I'm a Christian actually!' and people have to believe you :/

[Marsh.]

I guess you are a practicing religionist by going to church once a week for an hour and murmuring under your chin and looking serious?

I guess you are an expert on religion by going into church for 2 minutes and expecting to be taken serious?

[kirklancaster]

I guess you are an expert on religion by going into church for 2 minutes and expecting to be taken serious?

:laugh: OUCH. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I guess you are an expert on religion by going into church for 2 minutes and expecting to be taken serious?

Tbh it probably would as no one seems to know what an actual Christian is

I expect you have a good definition for the group?

[Redway]

I guess we have a lot more to choose from in the States.. this poll doesn't look anything like the full menu of Christianity we have in the US

My least favorite denomation is prosperity gospel... Joel Osteen must have a really good dentist though... my paternal grandmother is Catholic and I feel like she and her sisters are actually practicing compared to my peers, are more connected as a community and I feel like the church here is less watered down than other denominations... many churches here now are aiming towards prosperity gospel and are Christianity Light... with exception to Baptist, which my family supposedly is rooted in and it is known to be fire & brimstone, Southernly, but strict... However, my grandmother had an abusive step-dad who was also a Pastor and did things to her and her sisters growing up. So unsurprisingly, we were never church-going growing up... I don't think it really affected her faith though.

It’s a poll on a Big Brother forum. Was never gonna be all-inclusive of all 1298 sub-sects.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It’s a poll on a Big Brother forum. Was never gonna be all-inclusive of all 1298 sub-sects.

and all the subsets are there because people go to church, dont like not being in charge and go and invent a new version where they can be the boss

typical humans and their need to feel important

[Twosugars]

Catholicism for me, the real McCoy. Sentimental reasons and aesthetics. Proper organ music, old churches full of art, saints, incence, vestments, the lot.

[Redway]

Catholicism for me, the real McCoy. Sentimental reasons and aesthetics. Proper organ music, old churches full of art, saints, incence, vestments, the lot.

Warm aesthetics is where it’s at. Just for the beauty.

Plus Virgin Mary’s a mother anyone would love to bang. What a character.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Catholicism for me, the real McCoy. Sentimental reasons and aesthetics. Proper organ music, old churches full of art, saints, incence, vestments, the lot.

i love the bit where they tell children that they will burn in hell forever if they dont believe in what they say


:love:

[Twosugars]

i love the bit where they tell children that they will burn in hell forever if they dont believe in what they say


:love:

who doesn't like a frisson of danger in a story :hee:

[Niamh.]

Catholicism for me, the real McCoy. Sentimental reasons and aesthetics. Proper organ music, old churches full of art, saints, incence, vestments, the lot.

.....child abuse, sexism, cruelty, the lot

[Twosugars]

.....child abuse, sexism, cruelty, the lot

don't forget avarice, the church can be very greedy for donations

[Niamh.]

don't forget avarice, the church can be very greedy for donations

Indeed

[GoldHeart]

Tbh it probably would as no one seems to know what an actual Christian is

I expect you have a good definition for the group?

Do you know what an actual Christian is ?? I doubt it :whistle:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Do you know what an actual Christian is ?? I doubt it :whistle:

No I have no idea and that is my point

But feel free to offer up a description that is not just a cut and paste from google

[Niamh.]

Do you know what an actual Christian is ?? I doubt it :whistle:

For the most part Christians are people who's parents were Christians so they then passed it along and were told this is how it is, don't ask any questions. That's my experience of it anyway. People choosing to be Christians of their own accord are much more rare I think

[Maru]

As far as I understand it, most forms of Christianity that are not an Orthodox or part of Catholicism are technically Protestant - it's just that in the US especially there are a LOT of different varieties of that, and they can be very different from each other and totally different to "classic" Church-of-England style Protestantism. But yeah... they'd generally either be evolutions of classical Protestantism, and so still Protestant, or new offshoots from Catholicism which would make them "new Protestant".



I was christened Church of Scotland so I've voted Protestant in the poll -- but none are my "favourite" and I would never be a practicing Christian of any variety.

Yeah I figured

[Maru]

Catholicism for me, the real McCoy. Sentimental reasons and aesthetics. Proper organ music, old churches full of art, saints, incence, vestments, the lot.

Wooo, I agree with this... I enjoy going in w my grandmother to her church... it feels quite lovely

[GoldHeart]

For the most part Christians are people who's parents were Christians so they then passed it along and were told this is how it is, don't ask any questions. That's my experience of it anyway. People choosing to be Christians of their own accord are much more rare I think

But that's like saying Atheist parents so Atheist kids ,but it doesn't always go that way.

But I know what you're saying, if you have a religious family then you're likely to be brought up in the faith and taught the values .
The "don't ask questions" doesn't sound healthy to me :nono:, if you're unsure or want to learn more that's the whole point to ask questions . Maybe you have had a stricter upbringing? .

I'm not sure if it's that rare , you hear about Born again Christian's and people converting to different religions :shrug: .

[Niamh.]

But that's like saying Atheist parents so Atheist kids ,but it doesn't always go that way.

But I know what you're saying, if you have a religious family then you're likely to be brought up in the faith and taught the values .
The "don't ask questions" doesn't sound healthy to me :nono:, if you're unsure or want to learn more that's the whole point to ask questions . Maybe you have had a stricter upbringing? .

I'm not sure if it's that rare , you hear about Born again Christian's and people converting to different religions :shrug: .

Well not really, atheism isn't a belief as such, it just means you don't believe in a god or gods.

I didn't have a strict upbringing both my parents are pretty laid back and neither are religious at all eventhough they still got us baptised and made us go to mass cos that's just what you did (neither go to mass now though funnily enough) but here over 90% of state run schools are actually Catholic ethos because it was the church who originally set them up so religion is taught in schools and you didn't question the stuff you were told in Religion class because it was taught as fact which imo is incredibly wrong. The sooner we get that out of our schools here the better. Thankfully that grip the church had is getting very weak

[kirklancaster]

For the most part Christians are people who's parents were Christians so they then passed it along and were told this is how it is, don't ask any questions. That's my experience of it anyway. People choosing to be Christians of their own accord are much more rare I think

Yeah!!! I'm RARE. :laugh:

Seriously, Niamh you are correct.

I was not raised as a Christian (my immigrant mother was Buddhist) and I never thought about any type of religion at all whilst growing up, but then in my 20's I started to search (for want of a better word) philosophies and numerous Religions and even mysticism and the paranormal, and it was as a result of this that I 'discovered' Christ and the more that I researched, the further convinced I became that Christianity was for me.

I do not try to impose my personal beliefs on to anyone else - not even my children - but I do vigorously defend my faith when I have come under attack or jeering for it (which has happened).

Each to their own, I say.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well not really, atheism isn't a belief as such, it just means you don't believe in a god or gods.

I didn't have a strict upbringing both my parents are pretty laid back and neither are religious at all eventhough they still got us baptised and made us go to mass cos that's just what you did (neither go to mass now though funnily enough) but here over 90% of state run schools are actually Catholic ethos because it was the church who originally set them up so religion is taught in schools and you didn't question the stuff you were told in Religion class because it was taught as fact which imo is incredibly wrong. The sooner we get that out of our schools here the better. Thankfully that grip the church had is getting very weak

yep no one cares what stuff people believe but get it out of schools, politics and off Radio 2 and 4

[Marsh.]

Tbh it probably would as no one seems to know what an actual Christian is

I expect you have a good definition for the group?Why would I force a definition onto a group of people I'm not even a part of?

[Marsh.]

i love the bit where they tell children that they will burn in hell forever if they dont believe in what they say


:love:Which church is this? Certainly not a Catholic one.

[Niamh.]

Yeah!!! I'm RARE. :laugh:

Seriously, Niamh you are correct.

I was not raised as a Christian (my immigrant mother was Buddhist) and I never thought about any type of religion at all whilst growing up, but then in my 20's I started to search (for want of a better word) philosophies and numerous Religions and even mysticism and the paranormal, and it was as a result of this that I 'discovered' Christ and the more that I researched, the further convinced I became that Christianity was for me.

I do not try to impose my personal beliefs on to anyone else - not even my children - but I do vigorously defend my faith when I have come under attack or jeering for it (which has happened).

Each to their own, I say.

I do find Religions in general quite interesting, funnily enough I think I'd enjoy studying them :laugh: Buddism actually is an intriguing one. I don't know alot about it but I always thought that it was more of a way of life though rather than a religion as such?

I don't set out to mock people when I post in this threads but I feel like I have every right to give my opinion on religion especially since it was forced on me for my whole childhood, i think that gives my the right to comment

[Crimson Dynamo]

Which church is this? Certainly not a Catholic one.

yes unbelievers are cast into hell and even believers i think get purified in fire


purgatory etc


either way catholics are told that death is not a good thing for unbelivers


A priest told my pal Steven that every time he sinner a black cross was written on his heart and if he got too many he would die, only by going to confession would they be removed

it terrified him as a child

[kirklancaster]

I do find Religions in general quite interesting, funnily enough I think I'd enjoy studying them :laugh: Buddism actually is an intriguing one. I don't know alot about it but I always thought that it was more of a way of life though rather than a religion as such?

I don't set out to mock people when I post in this threads but I feel like I have every right to give my opinion on religion especially since it was forced on for my whole childhood, i think that gives my the right to comment

Oh, I did not mean you, Niamh - not at all. I was speaking generally and more about in real life than TIBB.

Let's face it - NO ONE on here takes the piss out of Christianity more than old baiter LT and if I can remain friends with him then nothing that anyone on here says about Christianity is going to upset me :laugh: (apart from personal attack).

But, anyway you are correct - Buddism is a way of life and not a religion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I do find Religions in general quite interesting, funnily enough I think I'd enjoy studying them :laugh: Buddism actually is an intriguing one. I don't know alot about it but I always thought that it was more of a way of life though rather than a religion as such?

I don't set out to mock people when I post in this threads but I feel like I have every right to give my opinion on religion especially since it was forced on me for my whole childhood, i think that gives my the right to comment

Neem there is still a very prevalent belief in the UK (and in this thread and others) that religion should be looked at with respect and reverence and of course that is how it was designed to be to protect it

its utter bollocks and thankfully now that attitude is dying out but its still there

[kirklancaster]

Neem there is still a very prevalent belief in the UK (and in this thread and others) that religion should be looked at with respect and reverence and of course that is how it was designed to be to protect it

its utter bollocks and thankfully now that attitude is dying out but its still there

Not from me, LT - fire away. I'm used to you. :laugh:

[Niamh.]

yes unbelievers are cast into hell and even believers i think get purified in fire


purgatory etc


either way catholics are told that death is not a good thing for unbelivers


A priest told my pal Steven that every time he sinner a black cross was written on his heart and if he got too many he would die, only by going to confession would they be removed

it terrified him as a child

My 31 year old brother was told something similar when he was in primary school because he forgot to bring money to buy some religious necklace thing

[Niamh.]

Neem there is still a very prevalent belief in the UK (and in this thread and others) that religion should be looked at with respect and reverence and of course that is how it was designed to be to protect it

its utter bollocks and thankfully now that attitude is dying out but its still there

Honestly i don't know how anyone would have the cheek to say the catholic Church deserve respect after all the atrocities that's come out about them in the last few years especially anyone in Ireland, we've had some bad ones

[GoldHeart]

Well not really, atheism isn't a belief as such, it just means you don't believe in a god or gods.

I didn't have a strict upbringing both my parents are pretty laid back and neither are religious at all eventhough they still got us baptised and made us go to mass cos that's just what you did (neither go to mass now though funnily enough) but here over 90% of state run schools are actually Catholic ethos because it was the church who originally set them up so religion is taught in schools and you didn't question the stuff you were told in Religion class because it was taught as fact which imo is incredibly wrong. The sooner we get that out of our schools here the better. Thankfully that grip the church had is getting very weak

I know Athieism isn't a belief but I'm saying if parents are atheists it doesn't always mean the kids will stay NON religious.

Nothing wrong with teaching Religious Education in schools as long as it's taught properly, when you're being taught in schools unless it's a Catholic school etc I can't imagine them teaching it as "fact" :conf: . They never did that when I was at school , it was more a case of this is what it says and you make your minds up .

Even when kids showed disinterest or said they don't believe ,the teacher wouldn't challenge the student ,it was just a response of " well if you don't believe it ok ,I'm just telling you the story " etc .



However I think RE exams were extremely difficult back then , and I wonder what point of view they wanted people to use :suspect: . Maybe religious studies are different today.

[Niamh.]

I know Athieism isn't a belief but I'm saying if parents are atheists it doesn't always mean the kids will stay NON religious.

Nothing wrong with teaching Religious Education in schools as long as it's taught properly, when you're being taught in schools unless it's a Catholic school etc I can't imagine them teaching it as "fact" :conf: . They never did that when I was at school , it was more a case of this is what it says and you make your minds up .

Even when kids showed disinterest or said they don't believe ,the teacher wouldn't challenge the student ,it was just a response of " well if you don't believe it ok ,I'm just telling you the story " etc .



However I think RE exams were extremely difficult back then , and I wonder what point of view they wanted people to use :suspect: . Maybe religious studies are different today.

Well like I said 90+% of state schools here are Catholic ethos plus they gave priority to kids who were baptised (which has literally only just been made illegal to do this year) It's a funny one because like i said the schools in Ireland were all set up by the Catholic Church which is why they've got their grip still on there however they're now paid for by tax payers so there's the conflict. Non denominational schools are few and far between so you'd end up having to travel and the kids not wanting to do that because they'll want friends in the area etc etc and logistically it's a nightmare so people were literally baptising their kids to get them into schools and then they had to go to religion class which isn't a fact based class it's further indoctrination. Both my kids are in Secondary school now so the last couple of years I've been putting N/A on the part where it asks what religion they are just to see if anyone would say anything but they haven't :laugh:

[GoldHeart]

Well like I said 90+% of state schools here are Catholic ethos plus they gave priority to kids who were baptised (which has literally only just been made illegal to do this year) It's a funny one because like i said the schools in Ireland were all set up by the Catholic Church which is why they've got their grip still on there however they're now paid for by tax payers so there's the conflict. Non denominational schools are few and far between so you'd end up having to travel and the kids not wanting to do that because they'll want friends in the area etc etc and logistically it's a nightmare so people were literally baptising their kids to get them into schools and then they had to go to religion class which isn't a fact based class it's further indoctrination. Both my kids are in Secondary school now so the last couple of years I've been putting N/A on the part where it asks what religion they are just to see if anyone would say anything but they haven't :laugh:

Well like I said you can't do anything about that if it's a religious school obviously they'll
be teaching things a certain way :shrug: , I'm forgetting you're in Ireland with alot of Catholic schools plus they have stricter rules.

If you put N/A they might just ask your kids surely?? .

[Maru]

Yeah!!! I'm RARE. :laugh:

Seriously, Niamh you are correct.

I was not raised as a Christian (my immigrant mother was Buddhist) and I never thought about any type of religion at all whilst growing up, but then in my 20's I started to search (for want of a better word) philosophies and numerous Religions and even mysticism and the paranormal, and it was as a result of this that I 'discovered' Christ and the more that I researched, the further convinced I became that Christianity was for me.

I do not try to impose my personal beliefs on to anyone else - not even my children - but I do vigorously defend my faith when I have come under attack or jeering for it (which has happened).

Each to their own, I say.

A rare gem :love:

[kirklancaster]

A rare gem :love:

Thank you, my Queen. :flowers:

[Niamh.]

Well like I said you can't do anything about that if it's a religious school obviously they'll
be teaching things a certain way :shrug: , I'm forgetting you're in Ireland with alot of Catholic schools plus they have stricter rules.

If you put N/A they might just ask your kids surely?? .No they've never asked my kids.

In regards to Catholic schools, I think in the UK that religious ethos schools are privately run where as here they're state run so every tax payer is funding them no matter what religion they are which is unfair imo state and schools should be separate

[Kazanne]

Oh, I did not mean you, Niamh - not at all. I was speaking generally and more about in real life than TIBB.

Let's face it - NO ONE on here takes the piss out of Christianity more than old baiter LT and if I can remain friends with him then nothing that anyone on here says about Christianity is going to upset me :laugh: (apart from personal attack).

But, anyway you are correct - Buddism is a way of life and not a religion.

I have had the piss taken over my religion Kirk,I just shrug it off,each to their own,live and let live and all that,I do believe in God (a higher being) and I definitely think there is something beyond.

[Twosugars]

I'd say atheism is a belief. A belief there's no god. What else is it since we don't have a proof either way?

[kirklancaster]

I have had the piss taken over my religion Kirk,I just shrug it off,each to their own,live and let live and all that,I do believe in God (a higher being) and I definitely think there is something beyond.

Hi love.

Do you know, Kaz, that I have such conviction in my faith and such confidence that God exists that I cannot help smiling whenever atheists jeer and mock.

I KNOW what I KNOW. :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'd say atheism is a belief. A belief there's no god. What else is it since we don't have a proof either way?

incorrect

its not a 50:50 thing with gods, dragons, superheros etc

the chances of everything man has learned about physics being wrong and gods being real is minute a tiny fraction of a percent

not believing in stuff with no evidence is not a badge or a thing

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have had the piss taken over my religion Kirk,I just shrug it off,each to their own,live and let live and all that,I do believe in God (a higher being) and I definitely think there is something beyond.

with respect Kaz that is not so much a belief based on anything other than a hope - a hope that we are more important than we are, that out lives have more meaning than a blade of grass (they are not)

in 2018 it would be impossible to claim to believe in an invisible god without derision as it would to claim at say a dinner party you thought goblins were real

too much debunking, too much science, too much evidence etc has flowed under the bridge for that stance to hold any water anymore

[Twosugars]

incorrect

its not a 50:50 thing with gods, dragons, superheros etc

the chances of everything man has learned about physics being wrong and gods being real is minute a tiny fraction of a percent

not believing in stuff with no evidence is not a badge or a thing

incorrect

science remains valid, but it hasn't answered the god question either way, until that happens atheism is a belief not a fact

[Niamh.]

I'd say atheism is a belief. A belief there's no god. What else is it since we don't have a proof either way?I disagree, you don't need proof that something doesn't exist

[GoldHeart]

I disagree, you don't need proof that something doesn't exist

It works both ways really
You don't necessarily need concrete proof that it does exist either , the whole point in having faith is you just believe :shrug: .

[user104658]

No they've never asked my kids.

In regards to Catholic schools, I think in the UK that religious ethos schools are privately run where as here they're state run so every tax payer is funding them no matter what religion they are which is unfair imo state and schools should be separateNo there are definitely Catholic state run schools (both primary schools and high-schools) in the UK. Not sure about other faiths. They're outnumbered by non-denominational schools by quite a big margin but they do exist, I think the only real difference between state and private religious ethos schools is that if they're state run, they can't refuse to take people of other religions / no religion and have to cater for them (by allowing them not to go to religious assemblies / church etc. and making alternative arrangements).

Most state schools are technically not non-religious... They're classed as non-denominational Christian (but exclusively have services with Church of England / Church of Scotland leanings). Even these days. There's not a huge focus on it but they do church services and the nativity etc. at Christmas is taught more as "history" than as "myths and legends"... Certainly for the first few years of Primary school at least, my daughter was confused as to why we didn't consider the Baby Jesus stories to be real or literal, when school was teaching them that way (I.e. Jesus WAS the son of God, an angel DID visit them, etc)

[user104658]

It works both ways really
You don't necessarily need concrete proof that it does exist either , the whole point in having faith is you just believe :shrug: .Yes but "faith" is that fallback argument; believing in something with no evidence is neither logical nor rational... "faith" is in my opinion just a more justifiable way of saying "wishful thinking". People have faith because it comforts and guides them. The harsh reality is, if something has been believed in passionately through faith for thousands of years and yet there is still zero real evidence of its existence, there's a very high probability that it simply does not exist.

[Twosugars]

I disagree, you don't need proof that something doesn't exist

You do otherwise you can't rule it out and the possibility of it existing remains

[Twosugars]

Absence of proof is not proof of absence

[Withano]

A quesion thats always bugged me

Why is God considered good, and the devil bad, when God is the one that chooses who makes heaven and who gets sent to hell for an eternity of damnation.

One chooses who gets punished, and the other does the punishing... kinda sounds like they’re on the same team but with different jobs...

[Niamh.]

Absence of proof is not proof of absenceYes but you could say that about anything space unicorns for instance.

[Niamh.]

A quesion thats always bugged me

Why is God considered good, and the devil bad, when God is the one that chooses who makes heaven and who gets sent to hell for an eternity of damnation.

One chooses who gets punished, and the other does the punishing... kinda sounds like they’re on the same team but with different jobs...Good point.

[GoldHeart]

Yes but "faith" is that fallback argument; believing in something with no evidence is neither logical nor rational... "faith" is in my opinion just a more justifiable way of saying "wishful thinking". People have faith because it comforts and guides them. The harsh reality is, if something has been believed in passionately through faith for thousands of years and yet there is still zero real evidence of its existence, there's a very high probability that it simply does not exist.

But that's what faith is whether you like it or not :joker: , and that's not entirely true as some people actually feel a sense of peace and contentment when following religion . they're happy and they believe what they believe .

Some people even experience miracles and spiritual encounters , of course some people might be sceptical but how can you know for sure they didn't experience angels and god protecting them? .

And yes it does comfort and guide people .

[Twosugars]

Yes but you could say that about anything space unicorns for instance.

But we are not talking about them.

What do you want me to say? I said before religious doctrines are unlikely to be true, but you can't prove it especially if interpreting them freely. I'm not going to condemn them and I'm happy for them to exist as long as they don't force themselves on anybody.
But I'm not going to ridicule them or selectively cite only negatives about them.
And I'm not going to trivialise the issue.
I hope that's ok with you and other strident critics of religion in this thread. I'm not budging.

[Niamh.]

But we are not talking about them.

What do you want me to say? I said before religious doctrines are unlikely to be true, but you can't prove it especially if interpreting them freely. I'm not going to condemn them and I'm happy for them to exist as long as they don't force themselves on anybody.
But I'm not going to ridicule them or selectively cite only negatives about them.
And I'm not going to trivialise the issue.
I hope that's ok with you and other strident critics of religion in this thread. I'm not budging.You don't need my approval to have an opinion? Just having a debate in Serious Debates. . .

[user104658]

Absence of proof is not proof of absenceIt's not proof of absence but it does suggest a very high likelihood of absence. There are very few things that can be "proven" in any absolute sense so there's no point going down that road; we can only deal in probability and likelihood. The likelihood that Christianity or any other mainstream religion represents anything resembling "truth", when there is zero evidence of it despite multiple-billions of people presumably having a direct interest in providing that evidence, means that the likelihood of it being accurate is not just small but miniscule.

I am well aware that people often have a strong emotional attachment to religion and would be lost, probably even depressed, without it. I think it serves a definite purpose. I would never go up to little old Betty who has just lost her husband and say "lol no Betty, it's statistically HIGHLY improbable that you'll meet again in heaven"... But, on a debates forum, in a religious debate, I think it should be safe enough to stick with what's actually rational. Religion is not rational. Faith is not rational. There are NO rational arguments for blind faith, and no reason to assume that anyone's "personal spiritual experience of God" is anything more than placebo. It's as simple as that.

And yes I know that "that's the point of faith" etc etc when it comes to day to day scenarios like poor Betty above, but it doesn't have much place in a logical, reasoned discussion.

[user104658]

That's not an Atheism argument by the way. The likelihood of there being SOME form of intelligent design / higher power is a complete unknown and therefore 50/50. It just isn't Christian God or any other human god, or anything even vaguely similar to any concept of God that humanity has suggested.

The idea that we have it figured out is ludicrously arrogant.

[Twosugars]

You don't need my approval to have an opinion? Just having a debate in Serious Debates. . .

Sorry. I lost my cool bc of the pride thread. Shouldn't have taken it out on you.

[Niamh.]

Sorry. I lost my cool bc of the pride thread. Shouldn't have taken it out on you.No worries

[Cherie]

.....child abuse, sexism, cruelty, the lot

So your kids didn’t get their first communion or confirmation?

[Cherie]

Catholicism for me, the real McCoy. Sentimental reasons and aesthetics. Proper organ music, old churches full of art, saints, incence, vestments, the lot.

Me

[Niamh.]

So your kids didn’t get their first communion or confirmation?Yes they did and I really regret it, I didn't want them to be the odd ones out in school and have to make them sit out all the time that **** takes up in school, a lot of time. If I had my time over I would have done things a lot differently

[Niamh.]

I did actually have a conversation with Luke about it when he got to 6th class though and I told him I'd rather he didn't make his confirmation but it was up to him and he wanted to do.it for 2 reasons, 1 because he didn't want to be sitting alone in class doing work while the others did confirmation stuff and 2 money money money. So yeah take it out if STATE run schools and watch those numbers drop

[Livia]

If I had to pick a good bunch of Christians, I'm going with the Salvation Army. They do so much for others, especially homeless people. They really do seem to have the courage of their convictions.

[Cherie]

I did actually have a conversation with Luke about it when he got to 6th class though and I told him I'd rather he didn't make his confirmation but it was up to him and he wanted to do.it for 2 reasons, 1 because he didn't want to be sitting alone in class doing work while the others did confirmation stuff and 2 money money money. So yeah take it out if STATE run schools and watch those numbers drop

So it was his choice, it’s the same for many kids, mine did their confirmation at 15 but they chose to do it, neither go to church now and thats fine, they didn’t attend a catholic secondary school either and that was their choice also, the idea that children who are baptised are forever indoctrinated is a false assumption usually perpetrated by non christians

[Niamh.]

So it was his choice, it’s the same for many kids, mine did their confirmation at 15 but they chose to do it, neither go to church now and thats fine, they didn’t attend a catholic secondary school either and that was their choice also, the idea that children who are baptised are forever indoctrinated is a false assumption usually perpetrated by non christians

Yeah it was his choice but influenced heavily by the fact that everyone else in his class was doing it :laugh: Atleast with the secondary schools here now, eventhough they're mostly Catholic ethos too they now have Religion as a factual based subject (along with the "normal" religion class) My daughter actually had to do a religion exam for her Junior Cert which i thought was strange but it was on a few religions not just Catholicism

[GoldHeart]

So it was his choice, it’s the same for many kids, mine did their confirmation at 15 but they chose to do it, neither go to church now and thats fine, they didn’t attend a catholic secondary school either and that was their choice also, the idea that children who are baptised are forever indoctrinated is a false assumption usually perpetrated by non christians

:clap1:

[Niamh.]

Well Christians are hardly going to be saying it are they? :laugh:

[user104658]

So it was his choice, it’s the same for many kids, mine did their confirmation at 15 but they chose to do it, neither go to church now and thats fine, they didn’t attend a catholic secondary school either and that was their choice also, the idea that children who are baptised are forever indoctrinated is a false assumption usually perpetrated by non christians

Thankfully in the modern world, the availability of information means that (probably most at this point) are not "indoctrinated"... But that doesn't mean it isn't an attempt to do so? I certainly don't assume that children raised in a religion are forever doomed to stick with it; my dad was raised strictly Catholic and is non-religious, and my wife was also Catholic schooled from age 5 to 16 and has (more or less) the same religious stance as me.

[Maru]

Usually it's harder to keep someone involved church rather than the latter. Unless the church makes them accumulate a **** ton of debt to sell books or threaten to force their family members cut them off for the rest of eternity if they can't keep paying or won't sign a billion year contract to do hard labor for them... :spin: Just sayin'...

[kirklancaster]

If I had to pick a good bunch of Christians, I'm going with the Salvation Army. They do so much for others, especially homeless people. They really do seem to have the courage of their convictions.

I agree, Liv. They are 'Living' Christians - Deeds Not Just Words.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or Mormons is another who practice what they preach in respect of others.

I have had answered the door to Mormon 'Cold-Callers' numerous times over the years at various properties which I was renovating, and within minutes of chatting to them, once they learnt that I was refurbing, they have always genuinely volunteered to return in work clothes with other members of their church to give me' a hand'.

I have always declined these kind offers but it has stayed with me that - like the 'Sally Army - THIS is more in keeping with Christ's teachings than any 'hollow' words from a pulpit.

[bots]

I've always enjoyed Madonna's interpretation :smug:

[Cherie]

Thankfully in the modern world, the availability of information means that (probably most at this point) are not "indoctrinated"... But that doesn't mean it isn't an attempt to do so? I certainly don't assume that children raised in a religion are forever doomed to stick with it; my dad was raised strictly Catholic and is non-religious, and my wife was also Catholic schooled from age 5 to 16 and has (more or less) the same religious stance as me.

No it is not an attempt to do so at all lol, more often that not getting a child baptised is a family tradition and sending them to catholic school is down to the school doing well in league tables, but I would agree that Islam has an indoctrination element to it

[kirklancaster]

No it is not an attempt to do so at all lol, more often that not getting a child baptised is a family tradition and sending them to catholic school is down to the school doing well in league tables, but I would agree that Islam has an indoctrination element to it

:laugh: Understatement of the millennium?

[Kizzy]

The Salvation army wouldn't have me because I'm not a Christian :(

[Kizzy]

I agree, Liv. They are 'Living' Christians - Deeds Not Just Words.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or Mormons is another who practice what they preach in respect of others.

I have had answered the door to Mormon 'Cold-Callers' numerous times over the years at various properties which I was renovating, and within minutes of chatting to them, once they learnt that I was refurbing, they have always genuinely volunteered to return in work clothes with other members of their church to give me' a hand'.

I have always declined these kind offers but it has stayed with me that - like the 'Sally Army - THIS is more in keeping with Christ's teachings than any 'hollow' words from a pulpit.

But you're against indoctrination and or polygamy?... ok.

[armand.kay]

Well I was raised as a catholic gal

[kirklancaster]

But you're against indoctrination and or polygamy?... ok.

What the hell are you referring to?

Because I may recognise and admire one or more qualities in an organisation it does not follow that I 'blind' myself to all its many faults - I am NOT a Labour supporter.

[Redway]

Bumpity-bump,

I did say at the time that I liked Catholic Churches just for the whole aesthetic surrounding it but that was the start and end of it. Beyond that and one or two other things I’m not a fan of what Catholics do in the church.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/95Thesen_facsimile_colour.png

[Niamh.]

yep no one cares what stuff people believe but get it out of schools, politics and off Radio 2 and 4This thread is weirdly relatable to stuff happening now, one thing defeated and replaced so quickly in my lifetime

[Niamh.]

People are idiots is what I'm learning in my life...

[Redway]

But you're against indoctrination and or polygamy?... ok.

Even if Kirk came out tomorrow morning now to say that he wasn’t, he’d still be talking in the way that you will not like.

Long time, Kizzy. Where are you?

[Niamh.]

Aww I miss them both though, Kizzy and Kirk also I stand by all my opinions in this ancient thread

[Redway]

Yeah, me and Kizzy very rarely saw eye-to-eye on anything (hey, it happens, right?) but she was a valuable member. You don’t have to agree with someone all the time to like them.

[Redway]

I think (to add another opinion to my thread; I didn’t say this particular one before) Catholics are more likely to be born into a nominal system of Christianity and it gets passed down and upheld for convention’s sake only more times. Having a more personal relationship with your God generally (especially in certain cultural circles) isn’t thought to happen at any less than the Anglican stage (or at least that Catholic + Anglican/Methodist Protestant-Pentecostal syncretism if there have to be elements of Catholicism). Catholics aren’t exactly born again Bible warriors. They just go to mass and do their thing on Sundays from what I’ve seen over the years. If you want to be a serious Christian as an adult, you have to want in on your own terms. It doesn’t matter what your parents brought you into.

[Swan]

Catholicism

[Redway]

Catholicism

Ugh. I mean, each to their own.

[Swan]

Ugh. I mean, each to their own.

It's how i was brought up. Sorry Redway.

[Niamh.]

Ugh. I mean, each to their own.What religion are you Redway as a matter of interest?

[Redway]

What religion are you Redway as a matter of interest?

I’m way more spiritual than I am an organised religion kind of person, even. But I was raised Anglican and then Protestant. I’m naturally quite interested in all this stuff but I’m honestly not religious like that.

And yeah (going back to what you said when I first made this thread). Inasmuch as I still like the aesthetics of the Catholic Church there’s too much about them historically. The child abuse scandals was the last straw but there are times when I’ve overlooked that, not because I was ever trying to defend the Catholic faith but just because most branches of religion have all sorts of negativity attached to them. But child abuse is a different kind of evil and it does leave a black mark against Catholicism.

[Niamh.]

Honestly I don't really get the indignation people have between Catholicism and other branches of Christianity, all singing from the same hymn sheet imo

[Redway]

There’s definitely some truth to that. Personally I think the Bible is somewhat corrupted (I’m pretty sure both hell fire proper and purgatory were scare-tactics that just found their way into the official books and teachings) in the first place. There’s a lot of timeless stuff in there but a lot of stuff that just doesn’t need to be there. That’s partly why I branded myself an agnostic for years and years but the truth is I do definitely believe in God (maybe not in exactly the same way as the Bible alludes to it). I’m not religious but I’m not an unbeliever. So in that sense I’m out-and-out lukewarm.

[Niamh.]

I'm definitely an unbeliever, I believe in my family and that's how I live my life, the end.

[Redway]

One thing I hate about Christianity is that people in it are quick to spread rumours about so-and-so backsliding and going in the completely opposite direction to how their parents brought them up (I mean, that can happen generally but I mean in the context of Christianity specifically). No-one should be seeing their child as an extension of them and not expect them to have their own belief systems once they get to a certain age. So long as people aren’t moving backwards or turning into genuinely bad people it just is what it is. It’s none of my business.

[Niamh.]

Not my experience at all ^^^

[bots]

LT an I regularly meet up for church events, it's high on the social calendar

[Redway]

Not my experience at all ^^^

I suppose what I’m getting at is that Christians (in certain circles anyway) can be very judgemental about people who aren’t exactly like them, especially if they knew them a bit when they were younger.

[joeysteele]

I don't appear to have come across this thread in the past.
I'm a baptised and confirmed Roman Catholic.

There's a lot I love about the Catholic church but a lot I cannot go with too.

I just wish there was in reality one faith for Christianity and that it was just called being Christian.
Wherever my own faith has wandered and whether or not I identified myself as Christian.
I do find extremely attracting the fundamental message of Christianity most of what is set out from only the words in scripture said to have been preached by Jesus himself.

The Christian message of how we should be towards others is something I can take on board completely.
However the words stated to be of Jesus and the message from himself, have had so much added, twisted with and even contradicted by the other writings in scripture by others.

Atheists actually despite having no belief, treat others better and care more about the wrongs against others than some so called Christians do.
I have come across more unchristian attitudes already in my life from regular churchgoers and so called devout Christians.
Even from the leaders and ministers of Christian churches too.