Pride event at London school axed after parents threaten protest

[Crimson Dynamo]

A primary school was forced to hold an event celebrating Pride in private after a group of parents threatened to protest at a playground parade.

Heavers Farm Primary School had invited families by letter to watch the “Proud to be Me!” parade on campus.

It said it wanted parents join in celebrating “the rainbow of things that make them and their family special”.

However, the event was axed at the last minute on Friday after the headteacher received warnings a group of parents planned to hold a protest.

“Some parents have taken exception to this. They feel the school is shoving LGBT issues down the kids’ throats. This takes us back decades.” Susan Papas, headteacher of the South Norwood school, told the Standard: “We thought we would celebrate Pride month so those children from LGBT families would feel included and to show the kids that children come from different families.

“But some parents aren’t happy with the term LGBT and don’t want their children knowing about these terms or what they mean.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/pride-event-at-london-school-axed-after-parents-threaten-protest-a3876841.html

do you agree this should not be part of primary schools?

[Alf]

Good on em'

[kirklancaster]

A primary school was forced to hold an event celebrating Pride in private after a group of parents threatened to protest at a playground parade.

Heavers Farm Primary School had invited families by letter to watch the “Proud to be Me!” parade on campus.

It said it wanted parents join in celebrating “the rainbow of things that make them and their family special”.

However, the event was axed at the last minute on Friday after the headteacher received warnings a group of parents planned to hold a protest.

“Some parents have taken exception to this. They feel the school is shoving LGBT issues down the kids’ throats. This takes us back decades.” Susan Papas, headteacher of the South Norwood school, told the Standard: “We thought we would celebrate Pride month so those children from LGBT families would feel included and to show the kids that children come from different families.

“But some parents aren’t happy with the term LGBT and don’t want their children knowing about these terms or what they mean.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/pride-event-at-london-school-axed-after-parents-threaten-protest-a3876841.html

do you agree this should not be part of primary schools?[/QUOTE]

Agree? The very idea that it was scheduled in a Primary School is enraging.

All the school staff who were complicit in this outrage should be sacked.

All that this extreme B.S. is going to succeed in achieving is to gradually alienate once sympathetic people and undermine the progress which has been made over the past 60 years or so.

[Matthew.]

it’s actually so sad that in today’s society, there are still parents who don’t want their kids to know that LGBT exists

[Crimson Dynamo]

it’s actually so sad that in today’s society, there are still parents who don’t want their kids to know that LGBT exists

well that is patently not true. they just want to keep the sexuality of adults away from primary school kids - plenty time after puberty to learn about that

:shrug:

[Alf]

it’s actually so sad that in today’s society, there are still parents who don’t want their kids to know that LGBT existsI can think of many much sadder things.

[Amy Jade]

I'd have taken my child to that.

It wasn't even really about sexuality just about being proud to be yourself.

[Matthew.]

well that is patently not true. they just want to keep the sexuality of adults away from primary school kids - plenty time after puberty to learn about that

:shrug:

i understand your point but i just don’t know if i like the idea of purposefully keeping them unaware of LGBT, especially because there are kids who have parents of the same sex

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'd have taken my child to that.

It wasn't even really about sexuality just about being proud to be yourself.

for adults

how many primary school kids go to a pride event?

[Crimson Dynamo]

i understand your point but i just don’t know if i like the idea of purposefully keeping them unaware of LGBT, especially because there are kids who have parents of the same sex

a fraction

probably the same that have dads in jail but they wont do a thing about crims and jail

[Smithy]

well that is patently not true. they just want to keep the sexuality of adults away from primary school kids - plenty time after puberty to learn about that

:shrug:

You don’t suddenly develop a sexuality when you become an adult, the whole point of pride is about acceptance, it’s not shoving anything in anyone’s faces

Find it so funny that the people who say sexuality shouldn’t be forced down children’s throats are probably the ones who say their kids are such “a ladies man” or “he’ll be fighting them off when he’s older the hypocrisy is hilarious

[Greg!]

You don’t suddenly develop a sexuality when you become an adult, the whole point of pride is about acceptance, it’s not shoving anything in anyone’s faces

Find it so funny that the people who say sexuality shouldn’t be forced down children’s throats are probably the ones who say their kids are such “a ladies man” or “he’ll be fighting them off when he’s older the hypocrisy is hilarious

!!

Close this thread!

[glibberglobber]

I didnt know about LGBTQ until i started Secondary school. This is apalling

[Brillopad]

A primary school was forced to hold an event celebrating Pride in private after a group of parents threatened to protest at a playground parade.

Heavers Farm Primary School had invited families by letter to watch the “Proud to be Me!” parade on campus.

It said it wanted parents join in celebrating “the rainbow of things that make them and their family special”.

However, the event was axed at the last minute on Friday after the headteacher received warnings a group of parents planned to hold a protest.

“Some parents have taken exception to this. They feel the school is shoving LGBT issues down the kids’ throats. This takes us back decades.” Susan Papas, headteacher of the South Norwood school, told the Standard: “We thought we would celebrate Pride month so those children from LGBT families would feel included and to show the kids that children come from different families.

“But some parents aren’t happy with the term LGBT and don’t want their children knowing about these terms or what they mean.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/pride-event-at-london-school-axed-after-parents-threaten-protest-a3876841.html

do you agree this should not be part of primary schools?[/QUOTE]

The guy wearing the tee shirt with gay fu**ing pride plastered all over it doesn’t make it seem very age appropriate. The whole thing is being shoved down parents’ and childrens’ throats too soon so hardly any surprise people react the way they do. Usual pushy left.

[Greg!]

The guy wearing the tee shirt with gay fu**ing pride plastered all over it doesn’t make it seem very age appropriate. The whole thing is being shoved down parents’ and childrens’ throats too soon so hardly any surprise people react the way they do. Usual pushy left.

That is a stock photo of one of many thousands of pride marches

[Greg!]

I didnt know about LGBTQ until i started Secondary school. This is apalling

That's a bad thing that you didnt know about it until then though

[GoldHeart]

The guy wearing the tee shirt with gay fu**ing pride plastered all over it doesn’t make it seem very age appropriate. The whole thing is being shoved down parents’ and childrens’ throats too soon so hardly any surprise people react the way they do. Usual pushy left.

Exactly :clap1:

How does it help matters by having the F word on a t-shirt .

This whole bells and loud whistles approach is just scaring people away :bored: .

[MB.]

I don't know about you, but I'd much rather primary school age kids were taught what being gay is rather than passively using it as an insult or an excuse to bully other kids, often being taught no better by their parents (source: someone who went to a primary school)

I don't find it a coincidence that this thread springs up the same day as a "favourite branch of Christianity?" thread, either

[Oliver_W]

“We thought we would celebrate Pride month so those children from LGBT families would feel included
The best way to make people feel included? Include them. Parades aren't necessary for that.

I didnt know about LGBTQ until i started Secondary school. This is apalling
It's LGBT. Only weirdo activists use the word "Queer".

The guy wearing the tee shirt with gay fu**ing pride plastered all over it doesn’t make it seem very age appropriate. The whole thing is being shoved down parents’ and childrens’ throats too soon so hardly any surprise people react the way they do. Usual pushy left.
That picture is obviously just for illustrative purposes, no way would he be included in the school's parade wearing that. The school seems to have had the best intentions, from the article is seems like the event was to be "self pride" first, with LGBT issues being tied into it, rather than the focus.

[MB.]

Exactly :clap1:

How does it help matters by having the F word on a t-shirt .

This whole bells and loud whistles approach is just scaring people away :bored: .

Yes, because that photo of a Pride parade, in which no children are visible, and an American flag is, was clearly taken at an event at a London primary school

I swear some people don't actually think before they react and jump to conclusions on here sometimes

[TomC]

Good on em'

This is blatantly homophobic.

well that is patently not true. they just want to keep the sexuality of adults away from primary school kids - plenty time after puberty to learn about that

:shrug:

We are exposed to heteronormative relationships from birth.

[MB.]

Only weirdo activists use the word "Queer"

Thankfully people like you are in the minority on that one

[Smithy]

https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/02/07/16/pride0702a.jpg?w968h681

Is the picture used in the original article, did LT change it just to get a more inflammatory response :conf::conf:

[Oliver_W]

Thankfully people like you are in the minority on that one

lol do you identify as "queer"?

[GoldHeart]

Yes, because that photo of a Pride parade, in which no children are visible, and an American flag is, was clearly taken at an event at a London primary school

I swear some people don't actually think before they react and jump to conclusions on here sometimes

Well it was a bad example photo to use .

Even if you disagree with it ,it's still the parents choice to allow or not allow their kids to be apart of it .

I thought LGBT parades were for adults anyway ?!

[GoldHeart]

https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/02/07/16/pride0702a.jpg?w968h681

Is the picture used in the original article, did LT change it just to get a more inflammatory response :conf::conf:

Probably :notimpressed:

[MTVN]

So would people rather that kids never know that homosexuality exists until they're at secondary school? Pretend that gay people are not a part of society? School is meant to teach kids about the world around them and making them aware of the lgbt community is a part of that and the pride aspect conveys a positive message so that they won't then find it weird or uncomfortable when they get older

[MB.]

lol do you identify as "queer"?

Whether I do or not has no bearing on the fact that it's now a widely-used term within the LGBT umbrella, be it academia, popular culture (Queer Eye says hello) or otherwise, and anyone who doesn't think so is still living in the Thatcher era

[Alf]

This is blatantly homophobic.



We are exposed to heteronormative relationships from birth.I've been busted. That's my life over.

[TomC]

I've been busted. That's my life over.

i don't believe you have a life hunty

[Morgan.]

Well it was a bad example photo to use .

Even if you disagree with it ,it's still the parents choice to allow or not allow their kids to be apart of it .

I thought LGBT parades were for adults anyway ?!

Right so because one or two uneducated parents don't want it to happen that means none can attend?

[AnnieK]

If my son's school did this I would proudly attend. He does know about LGBT issues as I have gay friends and their relationships are as normal to him as any. He doesn't think of it in a sexual way obviously, just that Paul and Chris love each other are together like Vickie and Rob. No big deal.

If all kids were the same then homophobia would slowly diminish and we can all live our own lives without worrying about who is with who regardless of gender

[MTVN]

If my son's school did this I would proudly attend. He does know about LGBT issues as I have gay friends and their relationships are as normal to him as any. He doesn't think of it in a sexual way obviously, just that Paul and Chris love each other are together like Vickie and Rob. No big deal.

If all kids were the same then homophobia would slowly diminish and we can all live our own lives without worrying about who is with who regardless of gender

:clap2:

[montblanc]

If my son's school did this I would proudly attend. He does know about LGBT issues as I have gay friends and their relationships are as normal to him as any. He doesn't think of it in a sexual way obviously, just that Paul and Chris love each other are together like Vickie and Rob. No big deal.

If all kids were the same then homophobia would slowly diminish and we can all live our own lives without worrying about who is with who regardless of gender

:clap1:

[Alf]

i don't believe you have a life huntyThat's true, but nobody cares about me and the problems in my life, I just have to get on with it. They certainly don't invite me into primary schools to put on an event promoting proud to be straight.

[Tom4784]

Homophobes won, I guess?

Disgusting parents.

[Alf]

What's the background of the parents? London's a very diverse city, lot's of religious people in London.

[TomC]

That's true, but nobody cares about me and the problems in my life, I just have to get on with it. They certainly don't invite me into primary schools to put on an event promoting proud to be straight.

Congratulations on 'getting on' with your life. If only the bigoted parents had done the same instead of ensuring that the majority of others missed out on such a progressive and well-meaning event.

[bots]

I question the need for it. The problem i see with it at a primary school age is that it is highlighting that there are different groups where really they shouldn't give a crap. The focus should be on everything is normal, not, certain groups need a special event.

[Smithy]

I question the need for it. The problem i see with it at a primary school age is that it is highlighting that there are different groups where really they shouldn't give a crap. The focus should be on everything is normal, not, certain groups need a special event.

Congrats on missing the point of pride entirely

[Crimson Dynamo]

Homophobes won, I guess?

Disgusting parents.

2 slurs on people you don't know

I love pc

[James]

I've removed the misleading picture from the original post.

[AnnieK]

I've removed the misleading picture from the original post.

:thumbs:

[reece(:]

So cos a few dinosaurs get to moan it ruins it for everyone? Despicable :rolleyes:

[Matthew.]

i have to say that those who did not want this to happen, well it says a lot about them doesn’t it

[RileyH]

How tragic

[montblanc]

i never understand how people can make the 'shoving LGBT down our throats' argument but claim they aren't homophobes :skull:

[Northern Monkey]

I think secondary school would be a more appropriate place for it tbh rather than primary.
It’s up to parents when they talk to their kids about LGBTQRSTUV stuff.It’s taking the choice away from them.
Atleast by secondary age everyone will know about these things.5-6 year olds may not.

Although i’d guess that it wasn’t compulsory so anyone who wanted to go could and those who didn’t can just not go.

[montblanc]

homosexuality shouldn't be treated as adult content though so it shouldn't matter if it was at a secondary or primary school

[Matthew.]

i never understand how people can make the 'shoving LGBT down our throats' argument but claim they aren't homophobes :skull:

because those people are dickheads :hee:

[Withano]

I think it is a beautiful idea with a cute message, but, I mean, it should have been optional from the outset tbh... you can’t force people into feeling proud, almost defeats the point.

The ‘protesting’ parents are probably massive *****. Who would protest an event designed to make children feel proud lol. They literally sound ****ing awful.

[Jordan.]

I think secondary school would be a more appropriate place for it tbh rather than primary.
It’s up to parents when they talk to their kids about LGBTQRSTUV stuff.It’s taking the choice away from them.
Atleast by secondary age everyone will know about these things.5-6 year olds may not.

I honestly don't see how it's inappropriate for 5-6 year olds to learn that people of the same gender can fall in when they're already more than aware at that age that boys and girls fall in love. Leaving it as something to discuss in teenage years just makes it a taboo subject when it doesn't need to be.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I honestly don't see how it's inappropriate for 5-6 year olds to learn that people of the same gender can fall in when they're already more than aware at that age that boys and girls fall in love. Leaving it as something to discuss in teenage years just makes it a taboo subject when it doesn't need to be.

Pride is not a primary school message. It's an adult message and has no place in a primary school

[Brillopad]

I think it is a beautiful idea with a cute message, but, I mean, it should have been optional from the outset tbh... you can’t force people into feeling proud, almost defeats the point.

The ‘protesting’ parents are probably massive *****. Who would protest an event designed to make children feel proud lol. They literally sound ****ing awful.

When you’re a parent and actually have some knowledge on being one maybe then you will be qualified enough to slag parents off like that.

[Withano]

When you’re a parent and actually have some knowledge on being one maybe then you will be qualified enough to slag parents off like that.

Thats not how it works or you wouldnt have come on to a thread to slag off LGBT pride you fool! Lets a least try not being hypocritical!

[Matthew.]

Thats not how it works or you wouldnt have come on to a thread to slag off LGBT pride you fool! Lets a least try not being hypocritical!

oh clock ha :hehe:

[Scarlett.]

When you’re a parent and actually have some knowledge on being one maybe then you will be qualified enough to slag parents off like that.

Guess what? Having a kid doesn't
A) Make you smarter than everyone else
B) Give you the right to voice bigoted opinions
C) Make you the the most intelligent person in a room

People with kids always go "When you're a parent" popping out a sprog and raising it lets you see the world differently, sure, but it doesn't make you special.

[Brillopad]

Thats not how it works or you wouldnt have come on to a thread to slag off LGBT pride you fool! Lets a least try not being hypocritical!

Judging by the previous picture it looked unsuitable for that age group. Besides the headmistress should have run it past the parents first. They are their children - not hers.

[Matthew.]

it’s 2018, how can people be so homophobic as to still think like this

[Withano]

Judging by the previous picture it looked unsuitable for that age group. Besides the headmistress should have run it past the parents first. They are their children - not hers.

The previous picture has nothing to do with this event, that was LT baiting you... you took the bait and ran with it. Come run back, leave the irrelevant picture behind, we can discuss the actual topic if you want

[Amy Jade]

Judging by the previous picture it looked unsuitable for that age group. Besides the headmistress should have run it past the parents first. They are their children - not hers.

The picture used previously in the OP was picked by LT and not representative of the school's intended event.

[Jordan.]

Pride is not a primary school message. It's an adult message and has no place in a primary school

It may seem too adult for you to get your small mind around but it's really not that deep

[Crimson Dynamo]

Guess what? Having a kid doesn't
A) Make you smarter than everyone else
B) Give you the right to voice bigoted opinions
C) Make you the the most intelligent person in a room

People with kids always go "When you're a parent" popping out a sprog and raising it lets you see the world differently, sure, but it doesn't make you special.

Spoken like a true person with no kids

[Amy Jade]

Pride is not a primary school message. It's an adult message and has no place in a primary school

Being proud of yourself is something children shouldn't be taught from a young age?

Bloody hell I am going to be a **** mum, I will teach my kids from the time they can understand me that they should be proud of who they are no matter what.

[Scarlett.]

Spoken like a true person with no kids

Yep, I guess I don't understand the mystical magic that parents get that makes them the authority on everything from vaccines to pride

[Crimson Dynamo]

It may seem too adult for you to get your small mind around but it's really not that deep



And you can't make a point without a forum member insult?

[Withano]

Can we just stop going there as if its a zinger to put down an argument, not just here, everywhere

We dont need to be LGBT, a headmistress, a parent, or a child to discuss the people featured in this article.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yep, I guess I don't understand the mystical magic that parents get that makes them the authority on everything from vaccines to pride

Correct

You need a tougher skin to be a parent

[glibberglobber]

I honestly don't see how it's inappropriate for 5-6 year olds to learn that people of the same gender can fall in when they're already more than aware at that age that boys and girls fall in love. Leaving it as something to discuss in teenage years just makes it a taboo subject when it doesn't need to be.

But this was a pride event -not a few lessons.

An event like this may have confused youngsters.. You see homosexuals everyday around us... It's not like they're being ushered away when a parent sees homosexuals kissing. I would support this if it were a few lessons... Not an event.

[Scarlett.]

I was 9 when my dad revealed to me and my brother he was gay, and we both understood it, without any questions, and we knew we loved him just as much as we always did. From that I learned to be on the side of LGBT people, it helped me understand the struggles they endured, and still endure to this day. You know what I didn't get when I was 9? I didn't understand how someone could hate my dad because of who he loves. Pride is just about understanding, learning and celebrating people from all walks of life. I'm 27 now and I still don't understand why some people are still so scared of LGBT people.

[montblanc]

Spoken like a true person with no kids

this logic doesn't make sense

[Jordan.]

I was 9 when my dad revealed to me and my brother he was gay, and we both understood it, without any questions, and we knew we loved him just as much as we always did. From that I learned to be on the side of LGBT people, it helped me understand the struggles they endured, and still endure to this day. You know what I didn't get when I was 9? I didn't understand how someone could hate my dad because of who he loves. Pride is just about understanding, learning and celebrating people from all walks of life. I'm 27 now and I still don't understand why some people are still so scared of LGBT people.

:love:

[GoldHeart]

You can't parents what to do , especially if it's younger kids .

I know people disagree with this but i will always see pride parades for adults .

[Matthew.]

ugh can we just agree that people who don’t want kids to know that the LGBT community exists are homophobic

[glibberglobber]

ugh can we just agree that people who don’t want kids to know that the LGBT community exists are homophobic

Or not..

Maybe they are just firm Christian believers who think that its wrong.

Homphobia would be homophobic acts.. Not believing in your religion

[Shaun]

Pride is not a primary school message. It's an adult message and has no place in a primary school

Until you're a child growing up knowing you're different in a way that other kids are bullying you for, and now ignorant parents are choosing to brush under the carpet, you really have no light to shed on the topic

[AnnieK]

Guess what? Having a kid doesn't
A) Make you smarter than everyone else
B) Give you the right to voice bigoted opinions
C) Make you the the most intelligent person in a room

People with kids always go "When you're a parent" popping out a sprog and raising it lets you see the world differently, sure, but it doesn't make you special.

Spoken like a true person with no kids

I'm a parent and 100% agree with Chewy. No one gives you a manual or any magical powers....You just do your best to bring your kids up to be as well rounded, tolerant and accepting of others and you want people to be of them.

[GoldHeart]

ugh can we just agree that people who don’t want kids to know that the LGBT community exists are homophobic

That's not really fair now is it , i always see this homophobia argument and it's tiresome :bored: . I see pride parades as being something for for older people and adults .

Maybe these parent's just don't want their kids to be apart of this type of thing YET , it doesn't mean they're prejudice gosh !.

[Matthew.]

Or not..

Maybe they are just firm Christian believers who think that its wrong.

Homphobia would be homophobic acts.. Not believing in your religion

yeah but that’s just extreme Christians nowadays, and might i add, this is most likely the older generation that are more likely to have this view, as opposed to parents of primary school children

[Brillopad]

The picture used previously in the OP was picked by LT and not representative of the school's intended event.

Thanks Amy. I still feel that it’s a decision for the parents to make not the teachers though.

[Shaun]

That's not really fair now is it , i always see this homophobia argument and it's tiresome :bored: . I see pride parades as being something for for older people and adults .

Maybe these parent's just don't want their kids to be apart of this type of thing YET , it doesn't mean they're prejudice gosh !.

No, it just means they're too immature to explain real world issues to their children and want to pass the buck.

[Withano]

You can't parents what to do , especially if it's younger kids .

I know people disagree with this but i will always see pride parades for adults .

Them being parents is irrelevant. If you want to protest a group of children being proud of themselves, you are a ****.

[Matthew.]

That's not really fair now is it , i always see this homophobia argument and it's tiresome :bored: . I see pride parades as being something for for older people and adults .

Maybe these parent's just don't want their kids to be apart of this type of thing YET , it doesn't mean they're prejudice gosh !.

but it’s a fact of life that the LGBT community exists and we should embrace that surely?

[glibberglobber]

No, it just means they're too immature to explain real world issues to their children and want to pass the buck.

But there are more important issues for parents to pass on..

[Matthew.]

But there are more important issues for parents to pass on..

but if they do not, then their kids are more likely to grow up thinking that it is something to use as an insult

[Amy Jade]

I don't really get the argument that an event is unwelcome but 'lessons' in LGBT and pride would be fine.

Isn't that just laziness?

[GoldHeart]

No, it just means they're too immature to explain real world issues to their children and want to pass the buck.

I think you're making assumptions ok they'll be some that might not talk about it , but how do you know these parent's haven't talked about the LGBT community with their kids? , and nowadays parent's probably don't feel the need to explain as everything is plastered on TV these days . Even Youtube has videos about it .

[Brillopad]

Them being parents is irrelevant. If you want to protest a group of children being proud of themselves, you are a ****.

Play on the emotive line all you like but there are plenty of people protesting about everything these days - so don’t try to moralise when parents want to protect their children from such issues at such a young age. Secondary school should be fine - they are still only eleven. You are the ****.

[Josy]

Stop with the insults in this thread

[glibberglobber]

but if they do not, then their kids are more likely to grow up thinking that it is something to use as an insult


And racism still exists. Something you cannot CHANGE.

You cannot change your skin colour. You cannot change which country you are from. You can change being LGBT though.

There is probably more racism than homophobia. Thisis why this should cone first

[AnnieK]

But there are more important issues for parents to pass on..

But if an event like this stopped one child from developing feelings of confusion, self loathing and thinking they are abnormal then surely th at is a massive plus? A friend of mine has a daughter who is 9 and thinks she is a boy, she is currently being assessed by the CAMHS as she has already self harmed due to confusion. Had she been exposed to the LBGT community she may have not resorted to that. Her parents have a big responsibility in this too not just schools but I believe in today's society, kids should be exposed to everything possible to help them grow

[Withano]

Play on the emotive line all you like but there are plenty of people protesting about everything these days - so don’t try to moralise when parents want to protect their children from such issues at such a young age. Secondary school should be fine - they are still only eleven. You are the ****.

If they want to protect your child from feeling pride(?), they are the *****...

You can feel pride at any age... or you should anyway, bit difficult with parents like that about.

[Tom4784]

I have a massive issue with people saying that the LGBT isn't age appropriate because they insist it's only about sex. It's about more than that and if somebody doesn't think it's appopriate for children then what do they have to say about most Disney fairy tales which are based around true love and hetero relationships? Are they not appropriate for children or are you pushing the image that homosexuality or bisexuality is somehow 'dirtier' or 'inappropriate' for children? Love between two people can be as pure as any heterosexual relationship.

Plus there are kids that are raised in LGBT families, there are kids that are LGBT themselves. It's important to normalise these things because that's how you stamp out homophobia. It's learned behaviour and it's sad that these homophobes have probably sent a very negative message not only to the school but to their own children. Just imagine if any of those people's children are gay but too scared to come out/or are confused and they had to watch their parents plan a protest against pride. Such a damaging situation for the child.

[Matthew.]

And racism still exists. Something you cannot CHANGE.

You cannot change your skin colour. You cannot change which country you are from. You can change being LGBT though.

There is probably more racism than homophobia. Thisis why this should cone first

erm people do not choose to be LGBT!

[Withano]

And racism still exists. Something you cannot CHANGE.

You cannot change your skin colour. You cannot change which country you are from. You can change being LGBT though.

There is probably more racism than homophobia. Thisis why this should cone first

jfc

[glibberglobber]

erm people do not choose to be LGBT!

But they do... If I liked the same gender I would CHOOSE to become L(G)BT...

[AnnieK]

Play on the emotive line all you like but there are plenty of people protesting about everything these days - so don’t try to moralise when parents want to protect their children from such issues at such a young age. Secondary school should be fine - they are still only eleven. You are the ****.

But what do they need protecting from? Do you think they need protecting from the fact that two men can be in a loving relationship, rather than a man or a woman? Love is love and a beautiful emotion, nothing dangerous or sinister and we shouldn't have to protect our children from that

[Matthew.]

But they do... If I liked the same gender I would CHOOSE to become L(G)BT...

no. you are born lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.

you don’t wake up one morning and decide that you quite like the idea of being one and decide from there on out, you will be one.

[RileyH]

You can change being LGBT though.

sis :skull:

[Twosugars]

The picture used previously in the OP was picked by LT and not representative of the school's intended event.

Why did you do that LT?

[Withano]

But they do... If I liked the same gender I would CHOOSE to become L(G)BT...

Did you actively make a choice to not like the same gender?

[GoldHeart]

But they do... If I liked the same gender I would CHOOSE to become L(G)BT...

Suppose it depends which way you look at it , not everyone from that community are interested in parades and pride month so i can understand that side of it .

Also not everyone is open about their sexuality and they don't like labels which is what these parades seem to go on about , maybe some people don't want to be defined by their sexual preference .

[Twosugars]

But they do... If I liked the same gender I would CHOOSE to become L(G)BT...

Jesus wept!
You embarrass yourself showing such ignorance

[Brillopad]

If they want to protect your child from feeling pride(?), they are the *****...

You can feel pride at any age... or you should anyway, bit difficult with parents like that about.

It is not your decision so stop trying to make it so.

[GoldHeart]

Did you actively make a choice to not like the same gender?

I don't think that's what globber meant

[glibberglobber]

no. you are born lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.

you don’t wake up one morning and decide that you quite like the idea of being one and decide from there on out, you will be one.

And if a boy went out with a girl and said 'sorry.. I cannot do this anymore. I'm gay' and dumped her (and got with another boy) what would you call that?

I personally know someone who went from Lesbian to Bisexual

You aren't born with a nametag saying 'im gay'

[Tom4784]

But they do... If I liked the same gender I would CHOOSE to become L(G)BT...

Completely wrong.

You can't choose which gender you are attracted to. A straight person can't make themselves attracted to the same sex any more then a gay person can be attracted to the opposite.

Sexuality is not a choice, delusion is and by pretending that it is a choice you are pushing the idea that people she delude themselves into being something they are not and that's just sweeping the issue under the table.

[Brillopad]

Is this really the level we’re at btw?

You started it and dictated the level. Or are only you allowed to sink to it now.

[Withano]

It is not your decision so stop trying to make it so.

If you wasnt prepared to read a discussion on the topic, it would have been better to avoid it. Me discussing the topic isnt me trying to take control of a group of parents minds.

Its odd that you think i have that ability.

[Matthew.]

And if a boy went out with a girl and said 'sorry.. I cannot do this anymore. I'm gay' and dumped her (and got with another boy) what would you call that?

I personally know someone who went from Lesbian to Bisexual

You aren't born with a nametag saying 'im gay'

i just want to make this point before this threads is inevitably locked.

in your scenario above, the boy had always been gay but just hadn’t realised or had tried to cover it up.

this is like courtney act explaining things to ann widdecombe

[GoldHeart]

And if a boy went out with a girl and said 'sorry.. I cannot do this anymore. I'm gay' and dumped her (and got with another boy) what would you call that?

I personally know someone who went from Lesbian to Bisexual

You aren't born with a nametag saying 'im gay'

I think it's more complex than that .

That example you used of a guy dating a girl and then dumping her , it DOES happen in real life and i think it's either confusion or again he's not a specific label of "GAY" and he might still fancy women :shrug:.

[Brillopad]

If you wasnt prepared to read a discussion on the topic, it would have been better to avoid it. Me discussing the topic isnt me trying to take control of a group of parents minds.

Its odd that you think i have that ability.

Trying does not equate to effectivity.

[Withano]

You started it and dictated the level. Or are only you allowed to sink to it now.

I was directing that at the mods. No idea i could call you a **** and get away with it. Noted.

[glibberglobber]

This is why we should not have the LGBT section as mentioned in the suggestions part.

It would constantly be an aggressive war zone with confusion and contradiction.

[Withano]

And if a boy went out with a girl and said 'sorry.. I cannot do this anymore. I'm gay' and dumped her (and got with another boy) what would you call that?

I personally know someone who went from Lesbian to Bisexual

You aren't born with a nametag saying 'im gay'

I’ll be honest, you’ve got a bit of catching up to do.. people havent thought like you in about 30 years really.

[Withano]

This is why we should not have the LGBT section as mentioned in the suggestions part.

It would constantly be an aggressive war zone with confusion and contradiction.

Depends if you join the discussion id imagine.

[Josy]

Trying does not equate to effectivity.I was directing that at the mods. No idea i could call you a **** and get away with it. Noted.Look you two either pack it in or leave thread, so sick of the same members ruining threads for others that are trying to have an actual discussion!

[AnnieK]

I disagree, it could be educational and topical but I fear the same arguments would still come up.

I'm still waiting to hear what horrors being aware of the Lgbt community we are saving our children from by keeping them wrapped in a cotton wool filled hetro world

[glibberglobber]

Depends if you join the discussion id imagine.

:shocked:

[Tom4784]

I disagree, it could be educational and topical but I fear the same arguments would still come up.

I'm still waiting to hear what horrors being aware of the Lgbt community we are saving our children from by keeping them wrapped in a cotton wool filled hetro world

There is none beyond making bigoted parents feel uncomfortable, I imagine.

If a parent can't overcome their bigotry for the sake of their child then they aren't worthy of being a parent. The world is harsh enough for LGBT people without feeling like they can't be themselves around the people who should love them unconditionally.

[glibberglobber]

My point is people make their own choice of who they want to love lgbt or not, and they should not be forced

[Withano]

There is none beyond making bigoted parents feel uncomfortable, I imagine.

If a parent can't overcome their bigotry for the sake of their child then they aren't worthy of being a parent. The world is harsh enough for LGBT people without feeling like they can't be themselves around the people who should love them unconditionally.

It would literally be traumatic for the kids of the ‘protesting parents’ if they ended up being gay. What a horrible thought.

[GoldHeart]

I disagree, it could be educational and topical but I fear the same arguments would still come up.

I'm still waiting to hear what horrors being aware of the Lgbt community we are saving our children from by keeping them wrapped in a cotton wool filled hetro world

Parent's don't like being told what to do regarding this issue.

They probably think their kids are too young , or they just don't want them to be apart of the parade.

There's people from the LGBT community that aren't interested in parades and pride month as such :shrug: .

And chances are most of these kids already know about the community , like i said everything is on TV these days and they probably have family members and people they know who are gay .

[Withano]

My point is people make their own choice of who they want to love lgbt or not, and they should not be forced

How would you force anybody to love anybody, lgbt or not.

A ‘pride to be yourself’ march isnt going to turn the world into raging gays, no matter how much glitter. Thats not how love works.

[glibberglobber]

Nowhere did I claim (along the lines of) 'tomorrow ill be lesbian. Next week I'll be gay'

I purely stated that people have a choice of whether they want to be lgbt or not

[AnnieK]

Parent's don't like being told what to do regarding this issue.

They probably think their kids are too young , or they just don't want them to be apart of the parade.

There's people from the LGBT community that aren't interested in parades and pride month as such :shrug: .

And chances are most of these kids already know about the community , like i said everything is on TV these days and they probably have family members and people they know who are gay .

The saddest part of all this is the kids would have loved it. A party atmosphere at school when parents come in are the best days for primary school kids.

[glibberglobber]

How would you force anybody to love anybody, lgbt or not. .

So now forced marriages don't exist in our world?

[Withano]

Nowhere did I claim (along the lines of) 'tomorrow ill be lesbian. Next week I'll be gay'

I purely stated that people have a choice of whether they want to be lgbt or not

Do you know what lgbt means?

[Withano]

So now forced marriages don't exist in our world?

Oh yeh right that time i was forced to marry someone but it was ok because i instantly fell in love with them. We were married after all.

[glibberglobber]

Do you know what lgbt means?

Let me rephrase that - a choice of their SEXUALITY

[Tom4784]

My point is people make their own choice of who they want to love lgbt or not, and they should not be forced

So you're defending people's rights to be homophobic? Well yes, if people want to be homophobes then they can but that doesn't give them an excuse for other people to drag them for their bigotry.

If people want the right to hate then they must also deal with the fact that their opinions have consequences.

[Withano]

Let me rephrase that - a choice of their SEXUALITY

You do not have a choice of sexuality, you have never had this choice, nor has anybody else.

[glibberglobber]

Oh yeh right that time i was forced to marry someone but it was ok because i instantly fell in love with them. We were married after all.

... You are now being ignorant

Forced marriage is still LEGAL in some parts of the world

[Tom4784]

Nowhere did I claim (along the lines of) 'tomorrow ill be lesbian. Next week I'll be gay'

I purely stated that people have a choice of whether they want to be lgbt or not

Let me rephrase that - a choice of their SEXUALITY

But it isn't a choice, you can either accept your sexuality or you can live in delusion. I don't know why anyone would think the latter is a choice....

[Twosugars]

Nowhere did I claim (along the lines of) 'tomorrow ill be lesbian. Next week I'll be gay'

I purely stated that people have a choice of whether they want to be lgbt or not

Sexual orientation is not a choice.and don't confuse the issue with examples of people who are bisexual or in the closet!

[Withano]

... You are now being ignorant

Forced marriage is still LEGAL in some parts of the world

1 what has this got to do with this
2 what has this got to do with love (that was somehow the original point)

[Matthew.]

... You are now being ignorant

Forced marriage is still LEGAL in some parts of the world

that is not what this debate is about!!!

it is about parents not wanting their kids to be aware that people in the lgbt community exist, which i believe is wrong.

[Brillopad]

There is none beyond making bigoted parents feel uncomfortable, I imagine.

If a parent can't overcome their bigotry for the sake of their child then they aren't worthy of being a parent. The world is harsh enough for LGBT people without feeling like they can't be themselves around the people who should love them unconditionally.

The only people most people love unconditionally is their chilldren. They owe no such assurances to anyone else. I think sweeping statements that claim to know who is/isn’t fit to be a parent are invalid.

[Matthew.]

it is so sad that this debate needs to be had in the 2nd half of 2018 - you would think that we would have moved on from the pissing dark ages :rolleyes:

[GoldHeart]

The saddest part of all this is the kids would have loved it. A party atmosphere at school when parents come in are the best days for primary school kids.

But kids can still have parties , why can't there just be a summer celebration for everyone does it have to specifically be about pride month? .

[Withano]

The only people most people love unconditionally is their chilldren. They owe no such assurances to anyone else. I think sweeping statements that claim to know who is/isn’t fit to be a parent are invalid.

If I made an active attempt in stopping your young child in feeling pride for being who they are, would you say I’d be ready for my own kids? Or would you think I’m a bit of a cruel nutter.

[AnnieK]

The only people most people love unconditionally is their chilldren. They owe no such assurances to anyone else. I think sweeping statements that claim to know who is/isn’t fit to be a parent are invalid.

But parents with staunchly homophobic views regularly disown gay children. That is not unconditional love....that is conditional love. They may have been perfect loving parents but a revelation of sexuality will see them cut their kids off.

[AnnieK]

But kids can still have parties , why can't there just be a summer celebration for everyone does it have to specifically be about pride month? .

Why not though is my only question, it topical and educational. There would be no sexual connotations just a "it's ok right to be you, it's all right to be different, it's normal". I would love my sons school to have had this celebration

[Oliver_W]

Whether I do or not has no bearing on the fact that it's now a widely-used term within the LGBT umbrella, be it academia, popular culture (Queer Eye says hello) or otherwise, and anyone who doesn't think so is still living in the Thatcher era

Yup, there's Queer Theory in "academia". But people who think they're queer are still homosexual, bisexual, or trans. Being "queer" doesn't actually set them apart, they're still lacking the same rights and face the same struggles as LGBT people who don't identify as the Q, and it's those things that should be focussed on rather than expanding the term.

[GoldHeart]

But parents with staunchly homophobic views regularly disown gay children. That is not unconditional love....that is conditional love. They may have been perfect loving parents but a revelation of sexuality will see them cut their kids off.

Most parents these days accept their kids no matter what , of course they'll always be parent's who find it difficult to come to terms with or they might not like it at first.

It's usually people with very strict views that would "disown" their kids . And even then would they really disown them? or is it just the idea of the marriage that puts them off? .

[Withano]

Yup, there's Queer Theory in "academia". But people who think they're queer are still homosexual, bisexual, or trans. Being "queer" doesn't actually set them apart, they're still lacking the same rights and face the same struggles as LGBT people who don't identify as the Q, and it's those things that should be focussed on rather than expanding the term.

That isn’t what queer theory means at all lol. Actually it basically means the opposite. I think you found a paper one time that said it may not exist, and criticised queer theory and you jumped a few conclusions.

[Brillopad]

. I would love my sons school to have had this celebration

As is your right. Others clearly don’t agree - do they not have that same right? Is not too much pressure being put on people to conform to a certain way of thinking in much the same way as those doing this are accusing others of?

[GoldHeart]

Why not though is my only question, it topical and educational. There would be no sexual connotations just a "it's ok right to be you, it's all right to be different, it's normal". I would love my sons school to have had this celebration

I think it would of been more encouraging if they did a celebration that was inviting everyone from different backgrounds and more diverse . Rather than focusing on that topic . then maybe the parent's would of come round more , maybe they would of identified more with it . you get festivals & parties that are open to everyone.

[Brillopad]

But parents with staunchly homophobic views regularly disown gay children. That is not unconditional love....that is conditional love. They may have been perfect loving parents but a revelation of sexuality will see them cut their kids off.

I did say most. I personally would never turn my back on my children. I would prefer my children weren’t gay - but if they were I would love them the same.

[AnnieK]

As is your right. Others clearly don’t agree - do they not have that same right? Is not too much pressure being put on people to conform to a certain way of thinking in much the same way as those doing this are accusing others of?

Of course they have the right, but I don't think they have the right to protest to such an extent that the school have to scrap the event for the other parents who were more than happy. They should have had the right to withdraw their children but plan a disruptive protest at a primary school is forcing their opinions on others, exactly what they were protesting against

[GoldHeart]

I did say most. I personally would never turn my back on my children. I would prefer my children weren’t gay - but if they were I would love them the same.

As i said most parent's would accept their kids sexuality . Some might find it difficult to come to terms with but i can't imagine many actually disowning their own kids . I think some might frown on the idea of marriage rather than actually disowning them .

These days parents usually worry about other things concerning their kids like are they having unprotected sex ,are they taking drugs, being bullied , taking a weapon to school .

[Brillopad]

Of course they have the right, but I don't think they have the right to protest to such an extent that the school have to scrap the event for the other parents who were more than happy. They should have had the right to withdraw their children but plan a disruptive protest at a primary school is forcing their opinions on others, exactly what they were protesting against

I would have gone along with that in that situation - as long as they were able to withdraw them if they wished.

[Brillopad]

As i said most parent's would accept their kids sexuality . Some might find it difficult to come to terms with but i can't imagine many actually disowning their own kids . I think some might frown on the idea of marriage rather than actually disowning them .

These days parents usually worry about other things concerning their kids like are they having unprotected sex ,are they taking drugs, being bullied , taking a weapon to school .

I agree with that.

[Oliver_W]

That isn’t what queer theory means at all lol. Actually it basically means the opposite. I think you found a paper one time that said it may not exist, and criticised queer theory and you jumped a few conclusions.

If you re-read my post, you'll see I didn't comment on what Queer Theory means, I just said that it exists. My point was that there's no point adding Q to LGBT, as "queer" people don't face any additional struggles.

[Withano]

If you re-read my post, you'll see I didn't comment on what Queer Theory means, I just said that it exists. My point was that there's no point adding Q to LGBT, as "queer" people don't face any additional struggles.

Its rarely used as a phrase to describe people with unique struggles so i dont think you have a solid point tbh.

[Twosugars]

Annie, you've been fantastic in this thread. If all parents were like you there'd be less intolerance.

[user104658]

So long as actual sex is kept out of it I don't see the issue? Young children should know that same-sex relationships are perfectly normal in the modern world... One would hope that by the time our children are older, it will be a non-issue.

One criticism I might offer, though. A young child simply encountering same sex relationships in the real world probably won't find it odd unless they've been told its odd. My daughter first met a friend of mine and his partner when she was 4; she knew they were together and it didn't register as unusual to her at all. Which is surely how it should be.

Now... By introducing the concept of Pride, you sort of cancel out that effect. By loudly announcing that it's normal, are you not by implication informing young people of the fact that there are people out there who think it ISN'T normal and trigger a whole host of questions? And the internal queation; "Do I think it's normal or not?"

And I do think that's a question better suited to a mind capable of free thinking / analytical thought. Which means no under 11's. Because they literally can't do that, which is something people tend to forget or overlook.

[Oliver_W]

Its rarely used as a phrase to describe people with unique struggles so i dont think you have a solid point tbh.

I didn't say it was for people with unique struggles, just that their struggles are the same as all other LGBT people, so there's no need for it to be LGBTQ - putting the Q on the end adds nothing, apart from another letter.

[Cherie]

Diversity and inclusion forms the basis for the curriculum in every school, parents can’t pick and choose which parts of society they want to include otherwise it’s a bit pointless

[Shaun]

One criticism I might offer, though. A young child simply encountering same sex relationships in the real world probably won't find it odd unless they've been told its odd. My daughter first met a friend of mine and his partner when she was 4; she knew they were together and it didn't register as unusual to her at all. Which is surely how it should be.

Now... By introducing the concept of Pride, you sort of cancel out that effect. By loudly announcing that it's normal, are you not by implication informing young people of the fact that there are people out there who think it ISN'T normal and trigger a whole host of questions? And the internal question; "Do I think it's normal or not?"

And I do think that's a question better suited to a mind capable of free thinking / analytical thought. Which means no under 11's. Because they literally can't do that, which is something people tend to forget or overlook.

If they literally can't do that, then they won't ask it :suspect:

I do think events such as this do help to educate though, in that they can quash the kind of "lol your gay" playground insults and taunting (perhaps I'm thinking too idealistically, though), which I would imagine is the primary motive for trying to organise an event such as this. I don't think they enhance the idea of "otherness" at all, and that's something that irritates me about adult members of the LGBT community who act all uppity and "above" pride events. The whole point is to celebrate your history and who fought for your rights - so people who just veer away and say it's "too gay for them" and "they don't want to make a scene" are just internalising the homophobia they've been subjected to on themselves.

I don't think a full queer history needs to be instilled on kids - especially not primary school children - but if this is just a one-off event in the same spirit of say, Red Nose Days or Children in Needs or War reenactments or "dress like a Victorian day" or whatever else happens at primary school, I think it's just a nice excuse for fun and also a perfectly innocent way of encouraging children to be less...judgmental I guess? But I see what you mean about that, in turn, perhaps making some kids go "hey **** this, this is lame" or whatever - but I think some kids just react this way to a lot of things :laugh:

I think we're underestimating the topics that young children are exposed to: why is it okay for kids to learn about the grim realities of the world wars, or famine in Africa, or some fat king from 600 years ago beheading his exes for failing to bear children, but not something like this?

And if it's a case of trying to shelter them from grown-up topics of romance, sex and sexuality, then let's abolish all lessons about the royal weddings, the Nativity, Romeo and Juliet, sex education...

[Eddie.]

Well I’m all for Pride events, but not in Primary Schools... :skull:

[T*]

I swear some people don't actually think before they react and jump to conclusions on here sometimes

That’s because they do lmao
That’s 90% of all of this

[Underscore]

If my son's school did this I would proudly attend. He does know about LGBT issues as I have gay friends and their relationships are as normal to him as any. He doesn't think of it in a sexual way obviously, just that Paul and Chris love each other are together like Vickie and Rob. No big deal.

If all kids were the same then homophobia would slowly diminish and we can all live our own lives without worrying about who is with who regardless of gender

:clap1:

get ha sis!

[Redway]

it’s actually so sad that in today’s society, there are still parents who don’t want their kids to know that LGBT exists

Different cultures.

[Redway]

Thats not how it works or you wouldnt have come on to a thread to slag off LGBT pride you fool! Lets a least try not being hypocritical!

And let’s not try to get all hysterical over it. Like I say it depends on the cultural background of the parents. Whether that sounds PC or not.

[Brillopad]

But it isn't a choice, you can either accept your sexuality or you can live in delusion. I don't know why anyone would think the latter is a choice....

It hasn’t exactly been determined there is 100% proof it’s not a choice has it. It’s not very helpful to the ‘debate’ to exaggerate the findings of studies to suit your stance. It isn’t quite as black and white as that!

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2155810-what-do-the-new-gay-genes-tell-us-about-sexual-orientation/

[Cherie]

Different cultures.

Thats exactly it, it would be interesting to know the ethnicity of the school kids

[Redway]

Thats exactly it, it would be interesting to know the ethnicity of the school kids

“Most people are tolerant these days unless they’re old or extremely religious.”

Mhm. Depends if they’re white British or not. The truth is that different ethnic communities have different attitudes to things like this. I know we like to pretend all cultures are at the same level of exposure and tolerance but we’re not. No one readily admits that because of political correctness but we all know that deep down

[bots]

Nothing is ever mandatory at a school, it's impossible to enforce

[Cherie]

“Most people are tolerant these days unless they’re old or extremely religious.”

Mhm. Depends if they’re white British or not. The truth is that different ethnic communities have different attitudes to things like this. I know we like to pretend all cultures are at the same level of exposure and tolerance but we’re not. No one readily admits that because of political correctness but we all know that deep down

100 per cent, Christianity is constantly mocked on here when its light years ahead of other religions in some respects but we can’t mention that naturally :laugh: the ethnicity of the kids at this school is the key to the parents outrage given its an inner London school the odds are 90 per cent of the kids will not be white British

[Redway]

100 per cent, Christianisty is constantly mocked on here when its light years ahead of other religions in some respects but we can’t mention that naturally :laugh: the ethnicity of the kids at this school is the key to the parents outrage given its an inner London school the odds are 90 per cent of the kids will not be white British

Yh b. None of that matters on here though because everyone’s white British.

[kirklancaster]

Heavers Farm Primary School - A few facts:

"Heavers Farm is a much larger than average-sized primary school.

Three-quarters of pupils come from mainly Black African and Caribbean backgrounds, with around a quarter of White British origin.

A third of pupils speak English as an additional language.

The proportion of pupils with disabilities and/or special educational needs is well above average; a significant number have behaviour, social and emotional difficulties.

The proportion of pupils known to be eligible for free school meals is well above average.

The school has exceeded the government floor standards for the percentage of pupils achieving Level 4 or above in English and mathematics over the past three years

The governing body runs a breakfast club and an after-school games club, both of which were inspected at the same time as the main school.

The school has Healthy School status and hold the Activemark Award. It has the Intermediate International School Award also.

Facts:

PUPILS - 719

AGES - 3 - 11

GENDER - Mixed

TYPE - Community School

Ofsted Report - 10/11/2016:

All Reports: 81% (NATIONAL AVERAGE. 61%)

PERCENTAGE of pupils meeting the expected standard in reading, writing and mathematics: 14% (NA 9%)

PERCENTAGE of pupils achieving the higher standard in reading, writing and mathematics:

READING: 106 (NA 104)

MATHS: 105 (NA 104)

PUPIL/TEACHER RATIO: 21.5:1 (NA 20.6:1)

ABSENCE: 13.7% (NA 8.2%)

SCHOOL LANGUAGE*: 28% (NA 20.5%) *Where Pupil's First Language is not English.

FREE SCHOOL MEALS: 30.3% (NA 24.9%)

PUPIL HAPPINESS RATING: 84 (NA 93)

[Redway]

There we go. Not everyone’s European and PC.

[chuff me dizzy]

A pride event in a children's school ? the worlds gone mad !! I would keep my child off school that day

[Livia]

Time for adults to stop forcing this kind of crap on kids. Someone had an agenda when they thought of this, and it wasn't one of the pupils. 'Pride' is a great thing for adults and long may the celebration continue, but forcing it on a school? Surely the message should be inclusion and not separation? Being gay doesn't make you different from the rest of society, you're not unique or special, you're just another person. Maybe that'd be a better lesson.

[Samm]

A pride event in a children's school ? the worlds gone mad !! I would keep my child off school that day

“The parade was about teaching the kids love has no label and celebrating love in all its forms.

Your poor child, making them grow up in the a small world, mindless view

[chuff me dizzy]

Time for adults to stop forcing this kind of crap on kids. Someone had an agenda when they thought of this, and it wasn't one of the pupils. 'Pride' is a great thing for adults and long may the celebration continue, but forcing it on a school? Surely the message should be inclusion and not separation? Being gay doesn't make you different from the rest of society, you're not unique or special, you're just another person. Maybe that'd be a better lesson.

100% true, no one needs it ramming down their necks esp children , its gets bloody boring after a while get over yourself you're not special or a special case

[Livia]

“The parade was about teaching the kids love has no label and celebrating love in all its forms.

Your poor child, making them grow up in the a small world, mindless view

Oi, don't make comments about another forum member, especially about their parenting skills. That's a banning offence on here.

[Samm]

you're not unique or special, you're just another person. Maybe that'd be a better lesson.

I wish that was everyone's view, but sadly it's not, many LGBT people including myself are scared of a normal activity like holding hands with another person of the same sex in public, my friend and his partner was spat on a few weeks ago in daylight as they were holding hands walking in public view, that's why LGBT issues must have a strong voice, because until LGBT people are seen as "just another person" as you stated, Pride events and awareness must still go on

[chuff me dizzy]

I wish that was everyone's view, but sadly it's not, many LGBT people including myself are scared of a normal activity like holding hands with another person of the same sex in public, my friend and his partner was spat on a few weeks ago in daylight as they were holding hands walking in public view, that's why LGBT issues must have a strong voice, because until LGBT people are seen as "just another person" as you stated, Pride events and awareness must still go on

Thats fine for consenting ADULTS but keep kids out of it

[Livia]

I wish that was everyone's view, but sadly it's not, many LGBT people including myself are scared of a normal activity like holding hands with another person of the same sex in public, my friend and his partner was spat on a few weeks ago in daylight as they were holding hands walking in public view, that's why LGBT issues must have a strong voice, because until LGBT people are seen as "just another person" as you stated, Pride events and awareness must still go on

It wasn't that long ago you could go to prison for being gay. Now you can marry the person you love and it's actually against the law to discriminate. You can't deny that things have changed for gay people and continue to change. But taking that into a primary school... I don't think it belongs there. Secondary school... maybe.

[Redway]

I wish that was everyone's view, but sadly it's not, many LGBT people including myself are scared of a normal activity like holding hands with another person of the same sex in public, my friend and his partner was spat on a few weeks ago in daylight as they were holding hands walking in public view, that's why LGBT issues must have a strong voice, because until LGBT people are seen as "just another person" as you stated, Pride events and awareness must still go on

Not all cultures have been streamlined to be PC though have they.

You’re living on cloud 9 if you think Nigerian parents in South London wouldn’t take their kids out of a primary school that advocates gay pride for primary school kids.

Pride events don’t need to go on at school. Especially black schools. That’s how it is in reality.

[Samm]

Thats fine for consenting ADULTS but keep kids out of it

Why? Pride has different forms, an adult pride parade would be much different for one centred around kids, why should we let this younger generation of kids grow up thinking something is wrong with them for years until they discovered what gay means themselves, is years of suffering and bullying worth it?

[armand.kay]

I think the fact that people find the idea of children being taught about gay people so offensive just goes to show that the idea of gayness being somehow perverted or dirty hasn't died out yet. A pride event at a school Imo is no different to the black history month days we use to have when I was in school. I hope people soon realise that you can speak to children about gay people without whipping out the gay porn

[armand.kay]

If I was the headmistress I would just put my foot down and held the event anyway.

[Redway]

I think the fact that people find the idea of children being taught about gay people so offensive just goes to show that the idea of gayness being somehow perverted or dirty hasn't died out yet. A pride event at a school Imo is no different to the black history month days we use to have when I was in school. I hope people soon realise that you can speak to children about gay people without whipping out the gay porn

Not everyone’s white British.

Outdated views on homosexuality are growing out in Western culture. But Western culture isn’t the face of world culture is it.

[Redway]

Why? Pride has different forms, an adult pride parade would be much different for one centred around kids, why should we let this younger generation of kids grow up thinking something is wrong with them for years until they discovered what gay means themselves, is years of suffering and bullying worth it?

It’s a black school. Enough said.

[Livia]

I think the fact that people find the idea of children being taught about gay people so offensive just goes to show that the idea of gayness being somehow perverted or dirty hasn't died out yet. A pride event at a school Imo is no different to the black history month days we use to have when I was in school. I hope people soon realise that you can speak to children about gay people without whipping out the gay porn

They're not being "taught". This is a kind of Pride event. No one thinks gay people are offensive, no one wants them singled out - although they do tend to do that themselves - No one thinks they're dirty... this is about the inappropriateness of taking a gay pride event into a primary school.

[chuff me dizzy]

Why? Pride has different forms, an adult pride parade would be much different for one centred around kids, why should we let this younger generation of kids grow up thinking something is wrong with them for years until they discovered what gay means themselves, is years of suffering and bullying worth it?

No form of sexuality including sex education should be rammed down young childrens necks

[Brillopad]

Not all cultures have been streamlined to be PC though have they.

You’re living on cloud 9 if you think Nigerian parents in South London wouldn’t take their kids out of a primary school that advocates gay pride for primary school kids.

Pride events don’t need to go on at school. Especially black schools. That’s how it is in reality.

To be fair I don’t think any culture should be given special treatment on this. Why especially black schools - there are many parents who don’t want it in ‘white’ schools either - though I doubt there is any school in the country that is 100% white these days.

[Samm]

It wasn't that long ago you could go to prison for being gay. Now you can marry the person you love and it's actually against the law to discriminate. You can't deny that things have changed for gay people and continue to change. But taking that into a primary school... I don't think it belongs there. Secondary school... maybe.

I know things have changed massively in the last twenty years, I didn't say it didn't and i'm proud of that, but that reality is there's still a lot of discrimination that occurs, secondary school it should be yes, but it's better to give the LGBT information to kids at a young age, i'm not saying they need to throw a massive pride parade to show this, but maybe adapt it to one of their lessons, inform them about LGBT and that it's perfectly normal for people of the same sex to love each other, and in terms of a pride event I don't see anything wrong with it, for parents to come in, and being able to dress up in colourful outfits with the entire school, sell food and drinks like a normal parade :shrug:

Not all cultures have been streamlined to be PC though have they.

You’re living on cloud 9 if you think Nigerian parents in South London wouldn’t take their kids out of a primary school that advocates gay pride for primary school kids.

Pride events don’t need to go on at school. Especially black schools. That’s how it is in reality.

So we should just ignore the issues? and let them stay like that, maybe not the pride parade like I was saying and maybe some educational lessons

[armand.kay]

Not everyone’s white British.

Outdated views on homosexuality are growing out in Western culture. But Western culture isn’t the face of world culture is it.

So then why should we let these people with outdated views dictate what is taught at or schools?

[Cherie]

It’s a black school. Enough said.

Its a bi product of multiculture, the natives cant pick and choose the bits of multiculture they want to embrace, its warts and all or nothing

[Samm]

I think the fact that people find the idea of children being taught about gay people so offensive just goes to show that the idea of gayness being somehow perverted or dirty hasn't died out yet. A pride event at a school Imo is no different to the black history month days we use to have when I was in school. I hope people soon realise that you can speak to children about gay people without whipping out the gay porn

:clap1:

[Redway]

To be fair I don’t think any culture should be given special treatment on this. Why especially black schools - there are many parents who don’t want it in ‘white’ schools either - though I doubt there is any school in the country that is 100% white these days.

Why especially black schools?

Because black culture is much more homophobic than white British culture. Facts whether it sounds PC or not.

White people who aren’t exposed to Afro-Caribbean tings and assume that everyone’s at the same level of political correctness might not admit the truth but I can say that.

[Livia]

I know things have changed massively in the last twenty years, I didn't say it didn't and i'm proud of that, but that reality is there's still a lot of discrimination that occurs, secondary school it should be yes, but it's better to give the LGBT information to kids at a young age, i'm not saying they need to throw a massive pride parade to show this, but maybe adapt it to one of their lessons, inform them about LGBT and that it's perfectly normal for people of the same sex to love each other, and in terms of a pride event I don't see anything wrong with it, for parents to come in, and being able to dress up in colourful outfits with the entire school, sell food and drinks like a normal parade :shrug:



So we should just ignore the issues? and let them stay like that, maybe not the pride parade like I was saying and maybe some educational lessons


I have no objection to the subject being discussed in school. I have three nieces who are now 15, 13 and 10. They all go to the same school and they all have openly gay friends at that school. Kids are far more accepting of others than adults are anyway, so having adults force a gay pride march on a primary school seems like overkill to me.

[Brillopad]

It’s a black school. Enough said.

No it isn’t.

[Samm]

No form of sexuality including sex education should be rammed down young childrens necks

Heterosexually and Homosexuality is far different from "sex", what are you on about, you can tell kids about these issues without the actual issue of talking about sex

[armand.kay]

They're not being "taught". This is a kind of Pride event. No one thinks gay people are offensive, no one wants them singled out - although they do tend to do that themselves - No one thinks they're dirty... this is about the inappropriateness of taking a gay pride event into a primary school.

I just don't see whats so inappropriate about it tbh. all I'm imagining is a few rainbow cupcakes and the kids people told that some times people of the same gender fall in love...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I just don't see whats so inappropriate about it tbh. all I'm imagining is a few rainbow cupcakes and the kids people told that some times people of the same gender fall in love...

Which is fine for secondary but not for primary

[armand.kay]

Which is fine for secondary but not for primary

why not

[Cherie]

Why especially black schools?

Because black culture is much more homophobic than white British culture. Facts whether it sounds PC or not.

White people who aren’t exposed to Afro-Caribbean tings and assume that everyone’s at the same level of political correctness might not admit the truth but I can say that.

I like your style Redway, you say it as it is, not the whitewash that is constantly spouted pardon the pun

[Crimson Dynamo]

why not

same reason lots of topics are for secondary and not primary

same reason pride is for adults and not children

[Redway]

No it isn’t.

“Three-quarters of pupils come from mainly Black African and Caribbean backgrounds“

It’s not hard to get behind the reactions if you know the culture of black London. Backward as it is in this day and age you’ll get killed on the street for being a gay boy in black London,

I dunno how many white British people that’ll shock but I’m being honest. Don’t apply modern Caucasian standards to different cultures.

[Brillopad]

Why especially black schools?

Because black culture is much more homophobic than white British culture. Facts whether it sounds PC or not.

White people who aren’t exposed to Afro-Caribbean tings and assume that everyone’s at the same level of political correctness might not admit the truth but I can say that.

Not all whites or other races/cultures are at the same level of PC as is regularly apparent in such threads and everywhere.

If living in Britain no one should expect preferential treatment due to culture.

[Samm]

I have no objection to the subject being discussed in school. I have three nieces who are now 15, 13 and 10. They all go to the same school and they all have openly gay friends at that school. Kids are far more accepting of others than adults are anyway, so having adults force a gay pride march on a primary school seems like overkill to me.

fair enough it should be discussed in schools glad we agree on that, I feel like a pride event would be fun for the kids that's all and obviously it would be marketed completely differently from how adults pride events are organised, even though the only difference would be no alcohol and of course it would be less provocative even though it's usually just the people attending adults pride events that make it provocative (myself included oop) but anyone would have the common sense to dress sensible to a event centred around kids .

[user104658]

'Pride' is a great thing for adults and long may the celebration continue, but forcing it on a school? Surely the message should be inclusion and not separation? Being gay doesn't make you different from the rest of society.

Yeah that was my thought that I was struggling to communicate... Adults understand the issue and persecution of homosexuals so "Pride" in an adult context is a great thing. But when it's young kids who don't yet really question or judge same-sex couples, does something like this - having a special event to tell them that it's OK / perfectly normal to be gay - not just plant the idea that some people MUST think that gay people are abnormal, in order for there to be an event stating that its normal?

Like if I sat down to a nice bowl of cornflakes and opened the paper and saw a huge press release saying "HEY EVERYONE! There is absolutely nothing wrong with Cornflakes!" my immediate thought would be "oh **** what are people saying is wrong with cornflakes?"

I have no idea if that makes sense.

But anyway... Yeah... For adults who have a grasp of the general situation - and even older kids - it would be great but it's just confusing and unnecessary for younger kids.

So if it was a high school, great. Even if it was specifically put together for the older kids say 9+ (when this stuff starts to become relevant), it would probably be valuable. For 5 year olds though? I think it just demonstrates a misunderstanding of how young children's minds process information and social etiquette. It assumes that kids are just like "little adults", when they're simply not.

[bots]

Yeah that was my thought that I was struggling to communicate... Adults understand the issue and persecution of homosexuals so "Pride" in an adult context is a great thing. But when it's young kids who don't yet really question or judge same-sex couples, does something like this - having a special event to tell them that it's OK / perfectly normal to be gay - not just plant the idea that some people MUST think that gay people are abnormal, in order for there to be an event stating that its normal?

Like if I sat down to a nice bowl of cornflakes and opened the paper and saw a huge press release saying "HEY EVERYONE! There is absolutely nothing wrong with Cornflakes!" my immediate thought would be "oh **** what are people saying is wrong with cornflakes?"

I have no idea if that makes sense.

But anyway... Yeah... For adults who have a grasp of the general situation - and even older kids - it would be great but it's just confusing and unnecessary for younger kids.

So if it was a high school, great. Even if it was specifically put together for the older kids say 9+ (when this stuff starts to become relevant), it would probably be valuable. For 5 year olds though? I think it just demonstrates a misunderstanding of how young children's minds process information and social etiquette. It assumes that kids are just like "little adults", when they're simply not.

Yeah that was basically what i tried to express earlier too and got shot down :laugh:

[Samm]

Which is fine for secondary but not for primary

by secondary school most kids have a clear mindset on social issues such as love, and anything being taught about homosexuality would be laughed at or ignored

[Brillopad]

“Three-quarters of pupils come from mainly Black African and Caribbean backgrounds“

It’s not hard to get behind the reactions if you know the culture of black London. Backward as it is in this day and age you’ll get killed on the street for being a gay boy in black London,

I dunno how many white British people that’ll shock but I’m being honest. Don’t apply modern Caucasian standards to different cultures.

That’s not acceptable on our streets and we should not pander to it. Multiculturalism does not mean special treatment for being non-Caucasian.

[Livia]

fair enough it should be discussed in schools glad we agree on that, I feel like a pride event would be fun for the kids that's all and obviously it would be marketed completely differently from how adults pride events are organised, even though the only difference would be no alcohol and of course it would be less provocative even though it's usually just the people attending adults pride events that make it provocative (myself included oop) but anyone would have the common sense to dress sensible to a event centred around kids .

I'm good with all of that. But not in primary school. Discuss it openly, answer questions honestly... but let's not make them dance to Steps in the playground, eh? :-)

[Redway]

Not all whites or other races/cultures are at the same level of PC as is regularly apparent in such threads and everywhere.

If living in Britain no one should expect preferential treatment due to culture.

Some of these cultures have been here for centuries.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say again, PC white British culture ain’t where it starts and ends.

You might be onto something if this was Cumbria we were talking about but this is black London. There’s being open-minded and there’s getting killed on the street.

You know what I’m saying deep down.

[Redway]

That’s not acceptable on our streets and we should not pander to it. Multiculturalism does not mean special treatment for being non-Caucasian.

Killed on the streets was tongue-in-cheek an all. You can’t push an agenda on people from completely different backgrounds.

[Samm]

I'm good with all of that. But not in primary school. Discuss it openly, answer questions honestly... but let's not make them dance to Steps in the playground, eh? :-)

why not I was dancing to tragedy in my bedroom when I was 7 :wavey:

[armand.kay]

same reason lots of topics are for secondary and not primary

same reason pride is for adults and not children

Ok so no actual reason, just as I thought

[Cherie]

Some of these cultures have been here for centuries.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say again, PC white British culture ain’t where it starts and ends.

You might be onto something if this was Cumbria we were talking about but this is black London. There’s being open-minded and there’s getting killed on the street.

You know what I’m saying deep down.

And alot of people are happy for other cultures to retain their own values until something like this comes up and slaps them round the chops then its a different story

[Brillopad]

Some of these cultures have been here for centuries.

I’ve said it once and I’ll say again, PC white British culture ain’t where it starts and ends.

You might be onto something if this was Cumbria we were talking about but this is black London. There’s being open-minded and there’s getting killed on the street.

You know what I’m saying deep down.

No I don’t. If black London has been exposed to these views for as long as everyone else they should be treated exactly the same as everyone else. White culture is pretty much a mixed bag with people having many different views on this - so why you think black culture has any more ‘right’ to express disagreement is ridiculous.

[Redway]

No I don’t. If black London has been exposed to these views for as long as everyone else they should be treated exactly the same as everyone else. White culture is pretty much a mixed bag with people having many different views on this - so why you think black culture has any more ‘right’ to express disagreement is ridiculous.

You’d understand if you had more black mates.

[Brillopad]

why not I was dancing to tragedy in my bedroom when I was 7 :wavey:

So what. . That doesn’t give you the right to dictate to parents how they should feel about their young children having such issues forced on them at such a young age.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ok so no actual reason, just as I thought

maybe if you have children and put them through school you will understand better, so dont worry if you dont now

:)

I would have thought you would have had an opinion of what Redway is saying?

[Brillopad]

You’d understand if you had more black mates.

Maybe you would understand more if you had more white mates. I believe you when you say that the culture maybe more homophobic, I am not disputing that, but it makes no difference to how they should be treated.

[armand.kay]

You’d understand if you had more black mates.

I'm a black Londoner and I can't see why we should cater to any culture thats homophobic,

[chuff me dizzy]

That’s not acceptable on our streets and we should not pander to it. Multiculturalism does not mean special treatment for being non-Caucasian.

No one should get special treatment be they black, white, gay or straight,I thought people wanted to be treat as equals but it doesn't seem that way, they want to be pandered to as a special case ,You cannot demand in this life

[armand.kay]

maybe if you have children and put them through school you will understand better, so dont worry if you dont now

:)

I would have thought you would have had an opinion of what Redway is saying?

why is that your concern lol...

and I'm gay so I can't imagine having children and being at all apposed to a pride event

[Northern Monkey]

Just let young kids be kids imo.There’s plenty of time for them to find out about the complexities of adult relationships.Some kids ask questions younger than others and we should be honest with them when topics come up but some kids just don’t care until they’re abit older.No need to push stuff on them.I think in secondary school it’s fine.

[Redway]

I'm a black Londoner and I can't see why we should cater to any culture thats homophobic,

You’re an exception in black London though and you know it.

I couldn’t have less of a problem with gay people myself but facts are facts as far as cultures and tolerance go.

This is going two steps further but would it be a good idea to showcase pride at a staunch Muslim school?

[chuff me dizzy]

Just let young kids be kids imo.There’s plenty of time for them to find out about the complexities of adult relationships.Some kids ask questions younger than others and we should be honest with them when topics come up but some kids just don’t care until they’re abit older.No need to push stuff on them.I think in secondary school it’s fine.

Agree, let them keep their child innocence as long as possible

[armand.kay]

You’re an exception in black London though and you know it.

I couldn’t have less of a problem with gay people but facts are facts as far as cultures and tolerance go.

This is two steps further but would it be a good idea to showcase pride at a staunch Muslim school?

ok but I'm still not getting why a bunch of homophobes should be aloud to dictate what is taught at our schools.

also muslim schools here are private schools so I can see why parents input would matter more.

[Brillopad]

No one should get special treatment be they black, white, gay or straight,I thought people wanted to be treat as equals but it doesn't seem that way, they want to be pandered to as a special case ,You cannot demand in this life

It just proves what many have said for some time - some people from different cultures expect preferential treatment and that is not what multiculturalism is supposed to be about.

[Northern Monkey]

You’re an exception in black London though and you know it.

I couldn’t have less of a problem with gay people but facts are facts as far as cultures and tolerance go.

This is two steps further but would it be a good idea to showcase pride at a staunch Muslim school?

I thought this tbh.

Would there be a gay pride event in a Muslim primary school?

If not then why do it in a black primary school,Christian primary school or any other primary school?
Not very consistent

[Redway]

No I don’t. If black London has been exposed to these views for as long as everyone else they should be treated exactly the same as everyone else. White culture is pretty much a mixed bag with people having many different views on this - so why you think black culture has any more ‘right’ to express disagreement is ridiculous.

Some have been exposed, some haven’t. A school packed with Nigerian kids doesn’t need pride lectures and those parents would sooner go straight to Hell than sign their little kids up for something like that. Shocking as that night sound to a guy like you.

[chuff me dizzy]

It just proves what many have said for some time - some people from different cultures expect preferential treatment and that is not what multiculturalism is supposed to be about.

No on one is a special case ,no one should be treat as special

[Brillopad]

Some have been exposed, some haven’t. A school packed with Nigerian kids doesn’t need pride lectures and those parents would sooner go straight to Hell than sign their little kids up for something like that. Shocking as that night sound to a guy like you.

I’m not a guy - and I would be no more happy about certain subjects being shoved down my 5 year olds throat than you say many a black parent would be. No special treatment for being black that’s all I am saying.

[chuff me dizzy]

I’m not a guy - and I would be no more happy about certain subjects being shoved down my 5 year olds throat than you say many a black parent would be. No special treatment for being black that’s all I am saying.

:clap1:

[Redway]

No on one is a special case ,no one should be treat as special

I know we like to pretend we’re the same but that’s not true. You might want to step out of your idealistic bubble and visit Brixton for the day. Have a nice picnic there an all.

[Crimson Dynamo]

ok but I'm still not getting why a bunch of homophobes should be aloud to dictate what is taught at our schools.

also muslim schools here are private schools so I can see why parents input would matter more.

"a bunch of homophobes"


wow

showing true colours here, you have no idea the reasons why parents objected but here you are calling ALL of them homophbes?


wow

[chuff me dizzy]

I know we like to pretend we’re the same but that’s not true. You might want to step out of your idealistic bubble and visit Brixton for the day. Have a nice picnic there an all.

Thanks for the invite, but I will decline it

[Redway]

Thanks for the invite, but I will decline it

That’s just it though innit.

Thanks for proving my point.

[armand.kay]

"a bunch of homophobes"


wow

showing true colours here, you have no idea the reasons why parents objected but here you are calling ALL of them homophbes?


wow

lmaoo I was speaking on Redway's theory that it was because of the homophobia in back london that so many parents were against it. nice try though

[Crimson Dynamo]

So to be clear Redway what is your point here:

that black London people hate gays a lot more than the indigenous white majority ?

[chuff me dizzy]

"a bunch of homophobes"


wow

showing true colours here, you have no idea the reasons why parents objected but here you are calling ALL of them homophbes?


wow

Did you expect anything less ? :bored:

[chuff me dizzy]

That’s just it though innit.

Thanks for proving my point.

And your point was what ?

[Brillopad]

I know we like to pretend we’re the same but that’s not true. You might want to step out of your idealistic bubble and visit Brixton for the day. Have a nice picnic there an all.

It could be argued that if as you say black culture is more homophobic than white culture it should have MORE enforced exposure to such issues to bring it to the same level.

[Redway]

And your point was what ?

South London’s rough as it gets. It’s a black majority school. The majority wouldn’t sign their kids not up to high school age for something they wouldn’t want for their kids at any age.

Like I say it’s not something that would be welcomed at a black school.

[Redway]

It could be argued that if as you say black culture is more homophobic than white culture it should have MORE enforced exposure to such issues to bring it to the same level.

It would take a third world war and 3000 years of enforced exposure to bring some communities on a similar footing about things like this. You can’t force it on them.

All this would be irrelevant if it was a majority white school somewhere up north but we’re taking Croydon. Come on. You can sit there and question it but on a practical level be real about it.

[Josy]

Closed.