Cartoon Network airs the first gay marriage proposal in a children's TV Show

[Tom4784]

Cartoon Network took a big leap forward when it comes to LGBTQ representation in children’s cartoon programming with the most recent episode of “Steven Universe.” The animated series’ July 4 episode, “The Question,” included a same-sex marriage proposal between two female characters, Ruby and Sapphire.

“Steven Universe” creator Rebecca Sugar had teased the groundbreaking episode before it aired on Twitter, writing, “The all new ‘Steven Universe’ episodes this week were years in the making, please, PLEASE do not miss these!”

The episode, the 21st installment of the show’s fifth season, included a storyline in which Ruby realized her love for Sapphire. Ruby ended up asking for Sapphire’s hand in marriage. “This way we can be together even when we’re apart,” Ruby said.

The same-sex marriage proposal is one of the more groundbreaking moments for LGBTQ representation in children’s cartoon programming. Shows such as Disney XD’s “Star vs. the Forces of Evil” have depicted a gay kiss in the past, while Nickelodeon’s “The Legend of Korra” has teased its lead character’s relationship with another female character, but a marriage proposal is an entirely different level for LGBTQ visibility.

Sugar is well known for using “Steven Universe” as a platform for inclusive storytelling. The show, which kicked off its run on Cartoon Network in 2013, also made headlines in Season 5 for when the character Pearl performed a dance about her emotions for a female character named Rose.

“Steven Universe” airs new episodes tonight and tomorrow, July 6, on Cartoon Network.

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/07/cartoon-network-steven-universe-sex-marriage-proposal-1201981487/

:clap1:

It's good that there are shows in children's TV is normalising things like this, it's good for LGBT kids to fell represented and it's good to show other kids that gay relationships shouldn't be seen as any different to hetero relationships.

[Greg!]

lovely :love:

[montblanc]

steven universe is honestly a GORGEOUS show

i must say the cartoons on cartoon network lately look stupid but are actually quite interesting

[armand.kay]

Wait so you mean to tell me you can show kids gay relationships without any sexual context?

[TomC]

:love:

[armand.kay]

lets not forget the og gay couple https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/theamazingworldofgumballfanfic/images/4/43/Mojo_%26_Him.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120408162133

[Matthew.]

:love:

[Tom4784]

steven universe is honestly a GORGEOUS show

i must say the cartoons on cartoon network lately look stupid but are actually quite interesting

I've heard good things about it tbh, I might give it a watch since everyone I know that's watched it has raved about it.

[Eddie.]

Lovely of them.

Agree with what Armand has said...

[Ammi]

...:lovedup:...hopefully this will be more the future of children’s TV...?...I’ll have to try to give it a watch also, I’m not really familiar with children’s TV atm...I just googled it and said that it’s aimed at children around 7-12 yrs old..?...it would be nice if other children’s TV series which are aimed at younger children will jump on board with it as well...to see pre-school audiences having gay relationships normalised would be a glorious thing and a much needed thing...I mean from birth gay relationships are a normal fact for children...whether it be with their own parents in a gay relationship, parents of a friend... or just a couple in the street hugging or holding hands that is seen by a child...this is a normal thing for any child to see and books/tv programmes etc are perfect ways to progress to a society and world where ‘coming out’ is something that people don’t feel any need to do anymore because there are no potential negative society views and judgements attached anymore...


...lovely..:flutter:...

[reece(:]

a positive step forward:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Tom4784]

...:lovedup:...hopefully this will be more the future of children’s TV...?...I’ll have to try to give it a watch also, I’m not really familiar with children’s TV atm...I just googled it and said that it’s aimed at children around 7-12 yrs old..?...it would be nice if other children’s TV series which are aimed at younger children will jump on board with it as well...to see pre-school audiences having gay relationships normalised would be a glorious thing and a much needed thing...I mean from birth gay relationships are a normal fact for children...whether it be with their own parents in a gay relationship, parents of a friend... or just a couple in the street hugging or holding hands that is seen by a child...this is a normal thing for any child to see and books/tv programmes etc are perfect ways to progress to a society and world where ‘coming out’ is something that people don’t feel any need to do anymore because there are no potential negative society views and judgements attached anymore...


...lovely..:flutter:...

Ikr? It's lovely to think that the next generation is going to be raised with such positive portrayals of gay relationships and how normalised they will probably be to it all.

The best way to to end homophobia is to raise the children and teach them that it's no different to any other kind of love.

[Denver]

Tinky Winky has been identifying as gay for decades get with the times

[montblanc]

Ikr? It's lovely to think that the next generation is going to be raised with such positive portrayals of gay relationships and how normalised they will probably be to it all.

The best way to to end homophobia is to raise the children and teach them that it's no different to any other kind of love.

this! people don’t realize that kids literally DON’T care about sexuality (along with race/gender/etc.) at all

it’s how they’re raised in today’s society

[Tom4784]

this! people don’t realize that kids literally DON’T care about sexuality (along with race/gender/etc.) at all

it’s how they’re raised in today’s society

Hatred is ultimately learned behaviour, raise a child in an environment where being gay isn't seen as something different to hate and they won't have any issues with it.

[Alf]

All my life gays have been loved, free and been idols of the screen in my country.

Who you fighting against?

[montblanc]

All my life gays have been loved, free and been idols of the screen in my country.

Who you fighting against?

:skull:

[Alf]

:skull:Together we are stronger.

And that's why they keep us apart.

[Oliver_W]

What's that cartoon where the boy's sister is a lez, and his friend has gay parents?

[Brillopad]

Hatred is ultimately learned behaviour, raise a child in an environment where being gay isn't seen as something different to hate and they won't have any issues with it.

Hence you wanting to shove it does the throats of others peoples’ children at such a young age. Ripe for the picking hey!

Parent power I say. Parenthood, young children and associated issues like this are like anything else and people discussing such issues need to be coming from a position of actual experience.

Where did all that hate for Trump, May, Mogg etc come from I wonder - as if anyone is so pure and innocent - definitely not those on the Left :rolleyes:

[Crimson Dynamo]

never heard of it

[Black Dagger]

All my life gays have been loved, free and been idols of the screen in my country.

Who you fighting against?

Yeah I feel so loved knowing at any point in a big city on a night out with my boyfriend I could get battered if I dare hold his hand.

[Nicky91]

one small step for Cartoon Network telly, one giant leap for the LGBTQ community


amazing news this

[Brillopad]

Yeah I feel so loved knowing at any point in a big city on a night out with my boyfriend I could get battered if I dare hold his hand.

You can get raped in a big city or a small country town on a night out period if you are female. You can get battered for anything. Why is it any different being gay?

[Brillopad]

one small step for Cartoon Network telly, one giant leap for the LGBTQ community


amazing news this

Not for many parents shouting - not with my children you don’t. Much Cartoon Network banning I think.

[Ammi]

Hence you wanting to shove it does the throats of others peoples’ children at such a young age. Ripe for the picking hey!

Parent power I say. Parenthood, young children and associated issues like this are like anything else and people discussing such issues need to be coming from a position of actual experience.

Where did all that hate for Trump, May, Mogg etc come from I wonder - as if anyone is so pure and innocent - definitely not those on the Left :rolleyes:

...I don’t understand though, Brillo...it’s not ‘shoving’ anything...to say that people love each other..(..in a romantic love...)...is a fact, which is conveyed to children from birth in so many ways...to say that ...for instance...here are two males and they love each other is conveying a fact...as well as two females...those are all facts...so it’s just teaching a child love...(..in TV series for instance...)...which is often done anyway in stories and has always been done...prince meets princess for instance and then at the end of the story they live happily ever after because they fall in love...it’s not always a prince and princess though is it...?...sometimes it’s two princes and sometimes it would be two princesses...that’s just informing children of life and of love and of reality...it’s not shoving anything or taking away any innocence because nothing sexual is involved any more than it is now in things like ‘falling in love and getting married’ Disney movies and the like...


...if we withhold facts from children, if we make them taboo to be shown...?...then what happens if that child is homosexual and they grow up feeling that homosexual is something bad and something wrong....something ‘not normal’...that has to change from past mindsets and society judgements and prejudices...and TV, movies, books etc are good place to begin I feel....

[armand.kay]

never heard of it

I don't think you're the target audience luv

[Brillopad]

I don't think you're the target audience luv

No - the young and innocent are luv!

[armand.kay]

You can get raped in a big city or a small country town on a night out period if you are female. You can get battered for anything. Why is it any different being gay?

this isn't good either it's not a competition lol...

[armand.kay]

No - the young and innocent are luv!

And the scene is very innocent and appropriate for children. Whats your point?

[Brillopad]

...I don’t understand though, Brillo...it’s not ‘shoving’ anything...to say that people love each other..(..in a romantic love...)...is a fact, which is conveyed to children from birth in so many ways...to say that ...for instance...here are two males and they love each other is conveying a fact...as well as two females...those are all facts...so it’s just teaching a child love...(..in TV series for instance...)...which is often done anyway in stories and has always been done...prince meets princess for instance and then at the end of the story they live happily ever after because they fall in love...it’s not always a prince and princess though is it...?...sometimes it’s two princes and sometimes it would be two princesses...that’s just informing children of life and of love and of reality...it’s not shoving anything or taking away any innocence because nothing sexual is involved any more than it is now in things like ‘falling in love and getting married’ Disney movies and the like...


...if we withhold facts from children, if we make them taboo to be shown...?...then what happens if that child is homosexual and they grow up feeling that homosexual is something bad and something wrong....something ‘not normal’...that has to change from past mindsets and society judgements and prejudices...and TV, movies, books etc are good place to begin I feel....

Many parents don’t though. Secondary school fine - toddlers and young children not so fine. Let children be children and keep their innocence for a few years before they learn about grown-up stuff. It’s preciously short as it is.

Look how gay rights have come on - that’s because most young people are ok with it today. Why do we need to push it on to such young children - they will get the message at secondary school. Sorry Ammi I simply see no need for it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't think you're the target audience luv

no as its a kiddies show luv I guess i am not....

[Ammi]

Many parents don’t though. Secondary school fine - toddlers and young children not so fine. Let children be children and keep their innocence for a few years before they learn about grown-up stuff. It’s preciously short as it is.

Look how gay rights have come on - that’s because most young people are ok with it today. Why do we need to push it on to such young children - they will get the message at secondary school. Sorry Ammi I simply see no need for it.

...I genuinely don’t understand what love has to do with innocence though, Brillo...what other message will a child get from being shown love, than love...?...many, many pre school children are shown Disney movies and many of those movies portray love...isn’t that the only message here that a child is being given..?...then is nothing else to it...to only show love between a male and a female ‘as the thing’ is surely lying to a child or concealing some truth from them, filtering the truth...perpetrating falsehoods..?...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I guess its progress and the modern thing to do but i hope that they state that same sex marriage is a very tiny percentage of all marriage and that being gay is only say 4 % of all people and stick to facts then kids will be like ok no big deal?

[Ammi]

..I do agree with you, Brillo...that explaining or showing things that develop education which are sex related do come later...it all has to be age appropriate...and an individual parent will decide age appropriate for some things for their child...but love and marriage etc are not age appropriate things....

[Ammi]

...lol...’will you marry me please to help raise that statistic and make it 4.000000000001...is just not that romantic of a proposal I don’t think...:laugh:...

...let’s keep it relatable to love and romance which is what it’s about...

[Brillopad]

..I do agree with you, Brillo...that explaining or showing things that develop education which are sex related do come later...it all has to be age appropriate...and an individual parent will decide age appropriate for some things for their child...but love and marriage etc are not age appropriate things....

But adult relationships, be it marriage or civil partnerships are based on sex - they are directly related - you can’t separate the two. It sometimes feels that some people, and I don’t mean all gay people, just some people, are trying to mould young fragile minds and steer them into their way of thinking - start with the ostensibly innocent act of slipping gay love into cartoons and then the rest when they get to secondary school.

It’s natural to want to protect the young and vulnerable and not expose them to outside influences from things they don’t need to understand so young. Just make it clear love is about loving and caring for everyone. I think we are making things too complicated too young.

[armand.kay]

But adult relationships, be it marriage or civil partnerships are based on sex - they are directly related - you can’t separate the two. It sometimes feels that some people, and I don’t mean all gay people, just some people, are trying to mould young fragile minds and steer them into their way of thinking - start with the ostensibly innocent act of slipping gay love into cartoons and then the rest when they get to secondary school.

It’s natural to want to protect the young and vulnerable and not expose them to outside influences from things they don’t need to understand so young. Just make it clear love is about loving and caring for everyone. I think we are making things too complicated too young.

so if you were to have a gay couple in your family you would just hide them away from your children?

[Brillopad]

so if you were to have a gay couple in your family you would just hide them away from your children?

No. In that situation it would need to be explained to the child by the parents in the simplest possible way. You answer according to the questions asked using a bit of commonsense. That doesn’t mean all children need to understand so young.

[Oliver_W]

But adult relationships, be it marriage or civil partnerships are based on sex - they are directly related - you can’t separate the two.
So does that mean any form of marriage or relationship should be hidden from kids' shows?

[Brillopad]

So does that mean any form of marriage or relationship should be hidden from kids' shows?

Don’t try and railroad me Oliver - you know exactly what I mean.

[Brillopad]

this isn't good either it's not a competition lol...

No it isn’t but I am just pointing out that gay people are unlikely to be at any more risk than many other groups of people.

[Crimson Dynamo]

...lol...’will you marry me please to help raise that statistic and make it 4.000000000001...is just not that romantic of a proposal I don’t think...:laugh:...

...let’s keep it relatable to love and romance which is what it’s about...

no lets stick to facts

[Twosugars]

if relationships stuff is all sex then let's ban most of the fairy tales

[The Slim Reaper]

I guess its progress and the modern thing to do but i hope that they state that same sex marriage is a very tiny percentage of all marriage and that being gay is only say 4 % of all people and stick to facts then kids will be like ok no big deal?

I completely agree with this. Obviously feelings of love are difficult for children to understand whereas the mathematical discipline of statistics is a walk in the park. Hopefully cartoon network will throw in some linear algebra and stochastic analysis to accompany a scene in which a moving drawing of a person proposes to another moving drawing of a person.

[Brillopad]

if relationships stuff is all sex then let's ban most of the fairy tales

The ‘consummation’ of a marriage/relationship speaks volumes.

[armand.kay]

I just don't see how movies like shreak or bea movie where a human falls in love with a non human character is less damaging to children than this is.

[Ammi]

But adult relationships, be it marriage or civil partnerships are based on sex - they are directly related - you can’t separate the two. It sometimes feels that some people, and I don’t mean all gay people, just some people, are trying to mould young fragile minds and steer them into their way of thinking - start with the ostensibly innocent act of slipping gay love into cartoons and then the rest when they get to secondary school.

It’s natural to want to protect the young and vulnerable and not expose them to outside influences from things they don’t need to understand so young. Just make it clear love is about loving and caring for everyone. I think we are making things too complicated too young.

..I honestly still don’t understand, Brillo...is Cinderella and Prince Charming..(..for instance..)...not an adult relationship...not an adult portrayal of falling in love...where was the sex in that...?...where did we say, no that’s not ok to portray love to children because we will make them think of sex if we do that...?...what would be the difference on TV or in a movie or a book etc...if the two people were of the same sex...it’s still love and it’s still an age appropriate portrayal of love..?...children see parental displays of love as a natural thing, the holding of hands, the hugs, the kisses etc...because love doesn’t display anything sexual between two people...?...

[Ammi]

...What if a a small child were to say ‘I have two daddies’ or ‘I have a papa and a daddy, I don’t have a mummy, like you do’....would we say...well yes that’s lovely, some people do have a mummy and a daddy and some people have a papa and daddy and that’s perfectly normal, we’re all unique families, type thing...or would we say...shhhhh now, we don’t talk about that, we don’t address that, that’s a ‘taboo subject’...you’ll find out when you’re older and able to understand it...’but I do understand it because I have them, that’s what I have...a daddy and a papa...’.....what’s to understand...?....

[thesheriff443]

I don't have a problem with gay people, the way I see it I could of easily been gay.

Within in gay community there are lyers cheats thiefs and murderers who kill other gay people.

Being gay does not give you the right to preach to non gays that your life is anymore important than anyone else.

Children are sponges they soak up what's being said to them.

[Toy Soldier]

Normie marriage is about lovehearts and holding hands, gay marriage is all about penises and bums and spunk every all everywhere. Walls, ceilings, everywhere. Take a mug out of the cupboard and what's that in the bottom? OH JUST GAY SPERM. So don't start telling me that it's OK for homosexuality to ejaculate it's way into kids television, I'm not having it.

[Ammi]

Normie marriage is about lovehearts and holding hands, gay marriage is all about penises and bums and spunk every all everywhere. Walls, ceilings, everywhere. Take a mug out of the cupboard and what's that in the bottom? OH JUST GAY SPERM. So don't start telling me that it's OK for homosexuality to ejaculate it's way into kids television, I'm not having it.

...see this is why you’ll never be in charge of a children’s TV network channel TS...because there’s all kinds of wrong in how you would portray gay marriage to very young children right there...now I can see why some may feel a little wary...

[Ammi]

..and who is Normie btw..?...is he/she in a straight marriage or in a gay one..?

[Oliver_W]

Don’t try and railroad me Oliver - you know exactly what I mean.

I'm not trying to railroad - I'm just asking how a gay relationship is inherently more sexual than a straight one, especially if the presentation onscreen makes it so they're no different to straights?

[Brillopad]

I'm not trying to railroad - I'm just asking how a gay relationship is inherently more sexual than a straight one, especially if the presentation onscreen makes it so they're no different to straights?

How can being of a given sexuality not be based on sex. Also It has always been presumed (wedding night) that any such relationship is consummated to legitimise it. I wouldn’t imagine there are many, if any, such relationships that have never involved sex. It’s not all about sex, but sex is a very relevant part of it - especially in the young and/or new relationships.

At no point did I say a gay relationship was inherently more sexual. But including it in cartoons is about planting a seed - and I think it is inappropriate and unnecessary at that age.

[Oliver_W]

How can being of a given sexuality not be based on sex. Also It has always been presumed (wedding night) that any such relationship is consummated to legitimise it. I wouldn’t imagine there are many, if any, such relationships that have never involved sex. It’s not all about sex, but sex is a very relevant part of it - especially in the young and/or new relationships.

At no point did I say a gay relationship was inherently more sexual. But including it in cartoons is about planting a seed - and I think it is inappropriate and unnecessary at that age.

I guess we'd better not show parents in cartoons then - they have definitely bumped uglies at some point! In fact, all relatives are evidence of sex, better not show any!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/94/41/10/944110feb21f52fee7cbf3ea5e6de9a6.jpg

[Ammi]

How can being of a given sexuality not be based on sex. Also It has always been presumed (wedding night) that any such relationship is consummated to legitimise it. I wouldn’t imagine there are many, if any, such relationships that have never involved sex. It’s not all about sex, but sex is a very relevant part of it - especially in the young and/or new relationships.

At no point did I say a gay relationship was inherently more sexual. But including it in cartoons is about planting a seed - and I think it is inappropriate and unnecessary at that age.

...but heterosexual is a sexuality also...but there are many portrayals of love and marriage for children within that sexuality...is that wrong also, Brillo...Cinderella and Prince Charming, Aladdin and Jasmine, Robin Hood and Maid Marion, Ariel and Eric...are they all wrong because they portray heterosexual love and marriage so are based on sex..?...

[Toy Soldier]

...but heterosexual is a sexuality also...but there are many portrayals of love and marriage for children within that sexuality...is that wrong also, Brillo...Cinderella and Prince Charming, Aladdin and Jasmine, Robin Hood and Maid Marion, Ariel and Eric...are they all wrong because they portray heterosexual love and marriage so are based on sex..?...

They don't have bum fun or oral shenanigans and there's only 50% of the semen (a manageable amount) so it's acceptable.

[Tom4784]

The negative reactions to this scene wouldn't have happened if it was a straight couple getting engaged. If you don't have a problem with hte likes of Disney pushing heterosexual love stories on children for decades then you can't argue against the same kind of love story that just so happens to feature a same sex couple.

It just goes to show that the problem is not with 'shoving something down people's throats' but the fact that it's a homosexual relationship that's the problem.

[Toy Soldier]

Homosexuality is just too PC for pre watershed television to be quite honest. One minute they're watching two men getting engaged, the next they're buying Trump balloons using their benefits money and voting for Jeremy Corbyn. It has to end somewhere.

[Tom4784]

3igfVgv55dY

The clip in question, you could have the same scene in any fairy tale or kids show and people wouldn't blink if it was a straight couple.

[Ant.]

steven universe is honestly a GORGEOUS show

i must say the cartoons on cartoon network lately look stupid but are actually quite interesting

then why didn't you comment on my SU thread? FAKE

[RileyH]

i must say the cartoons on cartoon network lately look stupid but are actually quite interesting

We stan Gumball

[Toy Soldier]

Surely it's more concerning that one of them is blatantly a child :think:

[Ant.]

We stan Gumball

https://i.imgur.com/GpM7pa0.gif

[Ant.]

Surely it's more concerning that one of them is blatantly a child :think:

they're both at least 5,750 years old :hmph:

[Vicky.]

I actually can't believe this is the first time its happened in a cartoon.

I do think though, it should be more common but also a huge fuss doesn't have to be made each time. Like, kids will see this, and then see all the fuss about it and think 'hey, this must not be normal given the fanfare/kickoffs about it'...if that makes sense? Just needs to be more common but with less fuss, IMO.

Not understanding the protests at all. And I much prefer to see gay weddings that humans marrying animals and such D:

[Toy Soldier]

they're both at least 5,750 years old :hmph:So is Baby Jesus but you don't see him getting married do you.

[Ant.]

So is Baby Jesus but you don't see him getti g married do you.

Th'baby Jesus is only around 2,000 years old :hmph:

[Tom4784]

I actually can't believe this is the first time its happened in a cartoon.

I do think though, it should be more common but also a huge fuss doesn't have to be made each time. Like, kids will see this, and then see all the fuss about it and think 'hey, this must not be normal given the fanfare/kickoffs about it'...if that makes sense? Just needs to be more common but with less fuss, IMO.

Not understanding the protests at all. And I much prefer to see gay weddings that humans marrying animals and such D:

In time there won't be a fuss but for now there has to be otherwise the negative response would be louder and taint the whole situation.

[Brillopad]

...but heterosexual is a sexuality also...but there are many portrayals of love and marriage for children within that sexuality...is that wrong also, Brillo...Cinderella and Prince Charming, Aladdin and Jasmine, Robin Hood and Maid Marion, Ariel and Eric...are they all wrong because they portray heterosexual love and marriage so are based on sex..?...

I never used the word ‘wrong’ about either sexuality Ammi. I just know that like many parents I wouldn’t want that seed planted in my children’s minds so young. It am also annoyed by the continued pressure from certain quarters to force parents to conform to their way of thinking.

I think secondary school is a perfectly suitable time for children to learn more about same sex relationships and the rights of parents of that opinion to have that opinion are just as valid as those who don’t agree. The pushiness of some on this subject is getting pretty tiresome to be honest - I don’t mean you Ammi, you are always pleasant and considerate even when you don’t agree.

[Toy Soldier]

Th'baby Jesus is only around 2,000 years old :hmph:

That doesn't sound right...

[Vicky.]

In time there won't be a fuss but for now there has to be otherwise the negative response would be louder and taint the whole situation.

Oh yeah I understand that.

Genuinely not sure what people are objecting to here. I could understand if the cartoon had showed graphic scenes of the wedding night or something, but that would be an issue with a straight relationship too :laugh:

[Ammi]

I never used the word ‘wrong’ about either sexuality Ammi. I just know that like many parents I wouldn’t want that seed planted in my children’s minds so young. It am also annoyed by the continued pressure from certain quarters to force parents to conform to their way of thinking.

I think secondary school is a perfectly suitable time for children to learn more about same sex relationships and the rights of parents of that opinion to have that opinion are just as valid as those who don’t agree. The pushiness of some on this subject is getting pretty tiresome to be honest - I don’t mean you Ammi, you are always pleasant and considerate even when you don’t agree.

...yeah sorry I should have said inappropriate or not suitable, Brillo...apologies for that...I guess I’m just trying to understand your thought connections in this...I mean I see you have an opinion but there reasons for our opinions, you know reasons why they’re formed...either with experiences or thought processes and connections..?..and I’m just struggling to understand really because I’d like to say...ah yeah, I do see...even if I don’t agree, at least I do understand why your opinion is what it is, you know....?...anyways I don’t want to contribute to any ‘pushed feelings’ ...so I’ll just leave it there...


...I think it’s just that thing for me that some people seem to perceive gay as ‘sex’ but don’t perceive straight as ‘sex’ in the same way, which when you think about it, doesn’t make sense...gay people love, straight people love and so far as young children’s information goes...that’s as far as the story goes...people love in a romantic way, sexuality doesn’t need to be addressed any further...

[montblanc]

then why didn't you comment on my SU thread? FAKE

i didn’t know you had one :suspect:

[TomC]

I never used the word ‘wrong’ about either sexuality Ammi. I just know that like many parents I wouldn’t want that seed planted in my children’s minds so young. It am also annoyed by the continued pressure from certain quarters to force parents to conform to their way of thinking.

I think secondary school is a perfectly suitable time for children to learn more about same sex relationships and the rights of parents of that opinion to have that opinion are just as valid as those who don’t agree. The pushiness of some on this subject is getting pretty tiresome to be honest - I don’t mean you Ammi, you are always pleasant and considerate even when you don’t agree.

Secondary school is too late; without positive exposure to same-sex relationships, homophobic rhetoric is commonplace by the start of secondary school.

I don't think you can quite underestimate what kind of impact having positive exposure to LGBT relationships at a young age would have on young LGBT people's lives.

[Tom4784]

Oh yeah I understand that.

Genuinely not sure what people are objecting to here. I could understand if the cartoon had showed graphic scenes of the wedding night or something, but that would be an issue with a straight relationship too :laugh:

It's the whole idea that gay relationships are somehow incapable of being presented as pure or as similar to straight relationships. It's just a thought process to prevent it being normalised tbh even though it makes no sense.

[Vicky.]

Yeah sometimes with stuf like this I can understand the opposing viewpoint, even if I disagree with it. For example the gay cake thing. I could understand both sides of it. But with this, I can think of no reason at all to be against it, besides being homophobic. Which may seem obvious...but yeah, I would love someone to change my mind on that though..or at least try to get me to understand, someone who disagrees that gay relationships should be portayed on TV/kids shows. But I cannot see it. All the negative reactions seem to be along the 'omg, pure filth!' line, which is ridiculous.

[Withano]

So cute, I’m assuming the PC brigade are kicking up a fuss about this?

[Ant.]

i didn’t know you had one :suspect:

well I did and it flopped so I've just been here unable to talk about the D***** A***** to ANYONE

[Brillopad]

Secondary school is too late; without positive exposure to same-sex relationships, homophobic rhetoric is commonplace by the start of secondary school.

I don't think you can quite underestimate what kind of impact having positive exposure to LGBT relationships at a young age would have on young LGBT people's lives.

And I don’t think you understand this from a parent’s point of view. Stalemate I think.

[Brillopad]

...yeah sorry I should have said inappropriate or not suitable, Brillo...apologies for that...I guess I’m just trying to understand your thought connections in this...I mean I see you have an opinion but there reasons for our opinions, you know reasons why they’re formed...either with experiences or thought processes and connections..?..and I’m just struggling to understand really because I’d like to say...ah yeah, I do see...even if I don’t agree, at least I do understand why your opinion is what it is, you know....?...anyways I don’t want to contribute to any ‘pushed feelings’ ...so I’ll just leave it there...


...I think it’s just that thing for me that some people seem to perceive gay as ‘sex’ but don’t perceive straight as ‘sex’ in the same way, which when you think about it, doesn’t make sense...gay people love, straight people love and so far as young children’s information goes...that’s as far as the story goes...people love in a romantic way, sexuality doesn’t need to be addressed any further...

Maybe Ammi - I just don’t feel that comfortable with it.

[Vicky.]

I understand it from a parents point of view. And have no issue with it at all. Infact I would like to see much more normalizing of gay relationships. They are not something that should be hidden away tbh. Just think how many kids have 'unconventional' families these days, be that single parent families, 2 fathers, 2 mothers..whatever. If all kids see is the general mum and dad and 2.4 children type families, it will surely make them think there is something 'wrong' with their own setup?

[Withano]

And I don’t think you understand this from a parent’s point of view. Stalemate I think.

There are several parents in this thread. You can’t blame you discomfort with homosexuality on being a parent, sorry, you just cant.

[Oliver_W]

Just think how many kids have 'unconventional' families these days, be that single parent families, 2 fathers, 2 mothers..whatever.

Well, quite. When I was on supply the other day one kid said "my mums are from Poland and Australia" and I accidentally said "pardon?" and someone else loudly said "Poland and Australia" haha

[montblanc]

And I don’t think you understand this from a parent’s point of view. Stalemate I think.

:skull:

[montblanc]

ah just CAN’T

[Ammi]

And I don’t think you understand this from a parent’s point of view. Stalemate I think.

..I guess from a parental point of view, Brillo...I would say that you would be a parent that would never ever want your child to feel they were perceived as ‘taboo’ in some way...something that wasn’t suitable for children, for their peers somehow...that some society views would perceive them or their family as ‘not the norm’....so to encourage TV programmes like this that present the realities of love and marriage, could only be a good and progressive thing...any discomfort that a parent might feel is only because of their own ‘conditioning’ from childhood as a perceived ‘norm’...the only way that can change and prevent prejudice is for it to end and for change to happen...changes like this and what we as parents present to our children as the norm....

[Maru]

I'm failing to see the issue here... Yes I do agree govt and institutions often try to supercede the parents on their parental authoritt, but that is for a different thread and not related to media... even if it is an issue with religion, even then I dont think normalizing cartoons with what they may encounter irl is not sensible... if you're religious then that will be the reality. anyway.

[TomC]

There are several parents in this thread. You can’t blame you discomfort with homosexuality on being a parent, sorry, you just cant.

Put better than I could put it. Ridiculous, why should a parent have a problem?

[TomC]

I am gay, and I am the child of two parents, and I am sure my parents quite understand how beneficial more exposure would have been to me and other LGBT children.

[TomC]

Then again, I'm not sure why I am bothering, as one person, or even ten individuals cannot argue with ingrained homophobia

[Ninastar]

Hate the show and everything Bout it, but I can’t deny that it’s great for our community

[Black Dagger]

You can get raped in a big city or a small country town on a night out period if you are female. You can get battered for anything. Why is it any different being gay?

If you can't see it I am not going to force you too. You be you!

[Brillopad]

There are several parents in this thread. You can’t blame you discomfort with homosexuality on being a parent, sorry, you just cant.

And those that don’t share the same opinion are entitled to it. There are plenty of parents that don’t. You don’t tell others how to feel!

[Brillopad]

Put better than I could put it. Ridiculous, why should a parent have a problem?

Many do. It isn’t your place to tell them you know better - you don’t.

[Mystic Mock]

What's that cartoon where the boy's sister is a lez, and his friend has gay parents?

Are you on about The Loud House? I love the practical joker in that cartoon, she has my awful sense of humour.:joker:

With Steven Universe I'm glad that they're joining this campaign to make gay relationships acceptable on children's TV, and hopefully they don't make them as annoying as adult TV Show romances can be between two homosexuals sometimes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So cute, I’m assuming the PC brigade are kicking up a fuss about this?

no as no one really cares about a cartoon on the arse end of sky channels

well apart from all the "omg its just love" posts

:hehe:

[Withano]

no as no one really cares about a cartoon on the arse end of sky channels

well apart from all the "omg its just love" posts

:hehe:

This thread would suggest otherwise

[Withano]

And those that don’t share the same opinion are entitled to it. There are plenty of parents that don’t. You don’t tell others how to feel!

But that isnt because they are parents, it is because they are homophobic wrecks who, unfortunately for the world, bred.

[Tom4784]

Also the show is wildly critically acclaimed and successful so obviously people care about it but LT already knew that.

[Brillopad]

But that isnt because they are parents, it is because they are homophobic wrecks who, unfortunately for the world, bred.

I wouldn’t expect anything else from you - full of hate for those that think for themselves.

[Withano]

I wouldn’t expect anything else from you - full of hate for those that think for themselves.

This literally translates to ‘i’m disappointed that you dislike homophobes’. I can live with that brillo.

[Brillopad]

This literally translates to ‘i’m disappointed that you dislike homophobes’. I can live with that brillo.

Sticks and stones. The playground awaits you.

[Maru]

As I think about it, I was exposed to these relationships through Japanese media when I was a pre-teen and I'm 33 now. I don't remember any of the characters getting married though, but I think there was always playful chat about it... a vast majority of bishouju shows/manga were hetero relationships, but that makes sense (majority demographic)... I know yaoi is insanely popular now (even with female readers)...

I remember when anime was just starting to come to the US, was called "japanimation"... it was heavily censored in comparison to how it is now. Including same-sex relationships... I think Cartoon Network started airing on the promise they would no longer censor, but they still had to go with the original DIC(?) license so the original series (US version) is still mostly censored afaik? Anyway, that was the beginning of "Adult Swim" which was pretty much created on top of the rise of anime fandom. Anyway, to censor LGBT relationships, they gave those characters sex changes to "correct" it. For example... these two were cousins in the US version... I don't remember their "new" names, that's how lame and non-believable it was... and really no reason to censor their relationship(s) as it is pretty harmless... it's bishoujo ("pretty girl", a genre) for God sakes so pretty tame by Japanese standards


https://i.imgur.com/Ay5Ihnq.jpg

I'm still bummed we never got Sailor Stars, which was the finale series (and the greatest one imo). I guess because the Starlights went through a magical sex change pretty much everytime they transformed which was from male to female... there's no way they could've shielded us from Stars, as they can't hide that with clever writing as it's tied in pretty heavily into the plot. Also Sailor Moon almost has a lesbian relationship with the leader...

♪ From no boobies to boobies... ♪

https://i.imgur.com/6nPjTPU.gif

Also everyone important is naked in the last episode (for some reason)

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.wired.it%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2F13114024%2F1492069 222_sailor-moon-galaxia.gif&f=1

:laugh:

[Ninastar]

I used to looooooooove sailor moon as a kid and didnt know about any of this!!! wtfffff

[Ninastar]

Also cause its slightly on topic... I will never EVER forget how blown away I was with the Korrasami ending on Legend of Korra. I was happy for DAYS, so hopefully kids who watch this feel slightly similar!

[montblanc]

Are you on about The Loud House? I love the practical joker in that cartoon, she has my awful sense of humour.:joker:

that show is a scream

[Maru]

True story, but the first year or so of my life on the internet was dedicated to searching SM spoilers/trailers and downloading videos in the school lab... to floppies. Lots and lots of floppies... where-ever I could find them, used, unused all the same to me :spin:

Adult Swim was a welcome change to the young anime fan in the US who had to pay through the nose for "unaltered" copies of things. Not so bad if you got it on DVD, but in the case of SM and licensing issues, the only way we could get SM unaltered /w subs was to pay some weird website to create homebrewed VHS' with their own subtitles...

Then came the wonderful age of IRC fileservs and CD burners :love:

[Maru]

Ironically, I would credit the PC-ification of our media (when it was more right-leaning) and some of the early censorship tactics and other consumer blocks to expaditing and encouraging an entire generation of kids to literally be raised upon the practice of piracy... thus making certain things far less immutable in the consumer's mind when it comes to the "worth" of things that are officially licensed... so attitudes towards media have clearly changed to be more liberal, not only economically speaking, but also clearly of the mind that people prefer to get things from the source...

Cartoon Network just replayed the content then (I guess it has it's own stuff now?), but they pretty much changed their fortunes by delivering content that wasn't tampered from it's original source (with Adult Swim)... that used to be the territory for piracy... in some ways, I guess it made anime more profitable. The same way early cartoons were only made if they could sell toys to go with their media venture, etc... before that, they were pretty much a channel with nothing but Bugs Bunny and Tom & Jerry reruns... it wasn't much more than the local channels were playing here during "peak" hours, as much of it was widely syndicated cartoons.

[Tom4784]

As I think about it, I was exposed to these relationships through Japanese media when I was a pre-teen and I'm 33 now. I don't remember any of the characters getting married though, but I think there was always playful chat about it... a vast majority of bishouju shows/manga were hetero relationships, but that makes sense (majority demographic)... I know yaoi is insanely popular now (even with female readers)...

I remember when anime was just starting to come to the US, was called "japanimation"... it was heavily censored in comparison to how it is now. Including same-sex relationships... I think Cartoon Network started airing on the promise they would no longer censor, but they still had to go with the original DIC(?) license so the original series (US version) is still mostly censored afaik? Anyway, that was the beginning of "Adult Swim" which was pretty much created on top of the rise of anime fandom. Anyway, to censor LGBT relationships, they gave those characters sex changes to "correct" it. For example... these two were cousins in the US version... I don't remember their "new" names, that's how lame and non-believable it was... and really no reason to censor their relationship(s) as it is pretty harmless... it's bishoujo ("pretty girl", a genre) for God sakes so pretty tame by Japanese standards


https://i.imgur.com/Ay5Ihnq.jpg

I'm still bummed we never got Sailor Stars, which was the finale series (and the greatest one imo). I guess because the Starlights went through a magical sex change pretty much everytime they transformed which was from male to female... there's no way they could've shielded us from Stars, as they can't hide that with clever writing as it's tied in pretty heavily into the plot. Also Sailor Moon almost has a lesbian relationship with the leader...

♪ From no boobies to boobies... ♪

https://i.imgur.com/6nPjTPU.gif

Also everyone important is naked in the last episode (for some reason)

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.wired.it%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2F13114024%2F1492069 222_sailor-moon-galaxia.gif&f=1

:laugh:

Cardcaptor Sakura is another one that was originally heaped in homo/bisexuality but when they brought it to the West, they cut it all out. The main character (Sakura) and her love interest both had a crush on Sakura's brother's best friend who in turn had feelings for the brother while Sakura's best friend has feelings for her.

Japan's quite odd when it comes to things like that, they portray gay relationships a lot and have done so for years but their overall attitude towards homosexuality is typically a bit archaic although it's getting better. They traditionally portray things like that as a phase that kids have to grow out of, 'you can have your crushes and all that but eventually you have to find a nice wife and settle down!'. It's also quite problematic that a lot of gay characters and relationships are typically played up as fanservice rather than representation.

It's a bizarre dichotomy, really.

[Maru]

Cardcaptor Sakura is another one that was originally heaped in homo/bisexuality but when they brought it to the West, they cut it all out. The main character (Sakura) and her love interest both had a crush on Sakura's brother's best friend who in turn had feelings for the brother while Sakura's best friend has feelings for her.

Japan's quite odd when it comes to things like that, they portray gay relationships a lot and have done so for years but their overall attitude towards homosexuality is typically a bit archaic although it's getting better. They traditionally portray things like that as a phase that kids have to grow out of, 'you can have your crushes and all that but eventually you have to find a nice wife and settle down!'. It's also quite problematic that a lot of gay characters and relationships are typically played up as fanservice rather than representation.

It's a bizarre dichotomy, really.

It's all fanservice in the end really as we can't expect a cartoon to cater to real life. I think that defeats the purpose of being creative for the purposes of being entertaining. By being entertaining, it can be far more effective in the bridging the gaps for some folk, than if it were to be too politically correct... Disney too could convey deep messaging for it's time, but as time went on, it remained too close to "safer" territory. Anime has always been whackadoo, but it was our escape from the rigid box of the PC of back then.

My first exposure to LGBT and what it was was actually through that fanbase, so I can't say it hasn't helped with representation. In fact, I think largely the opposite, anime forces a lot of uncomfortable topics into the forefront, particularly for us sheltered folk in the US. It's not exactly apologetic either, which is simply ironic, given the rigid nature of their culture...

I think with media in the West, we "reign it in" so to speak, to help "guide" an otherwise self-obsessed culture... with Japan, it's a bit more the opposite. The culture is expected to remain rigid, with those folk staying within expected "guidelines" at all times for the sake of the group... but their media is the opposite, it counters that vibe entirely and loosens it all up.

Given the incredibly low birthrate in Japan and the obstacles with even hetero relationships succeeding, it's interesting to say the least... though I was reading an article on our own birthrates and it's possible we could eventually be on a similar course.

[Jordan.]

I never used the word ‘wrong’ about either sexuality Ammi. I just know that like many parents I wouldn’t want that seed planted in my children’s minds so young. It am also annoyed by the continued pressure from certain quarters to force parents to conform to their way of thinking.

I think secondary school is a perfectly suitable time for children to learn more about same sex relationships and the rights of parents of that opinion to have that opinion are just as valid as those who don’t agree. The pushiness of some on this subject is getting pretty tiresome to be honest - I don’t mean you Ammi, you are always pleasant and considerate even when you don’t agree.

Planting a seed for what exactly? If you're scared kids seeing a gay relationship on TV will somehow determine their sexuality later in life you needn't worry because we'd all be straight with the amount of princes and princesses shoved down our throats at a young age.

It's actually your way of thinking that it's something that's best "suitable" to be discussed later in life that leaves so many LGBT people struggling to accept their sexuality and why so many straight people completely refuse to believe in it because they've been brought up from a young age to only believe heterosexual relationships exist.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Also the show is wildly critically acclaimed and successful so obviously people care about it but LT already knew that.

never heard of it, never seen it mentioned on tibb bar this thread

:shrug:

probably will never hear about it again

[Tom4784]

ofL2noMSQAA

:clap1:

Progress.