MIGRANTS 'HARM UK' Trump says Britain is ‘losing its culture’ because of immigration

[Crimson Dynamo]

In his EXPLOSIVE Sun interview

The US President says the wave of migrants from the Middle East and Africa is permanently changing Europe for the worse

https://wwwassets.rand.org/content/rand/blog/2018/02/we-are-almost-dead-the-politics-of-migrants-and-refugees/_jcr_content/par/blogpost.aspectcrop.868x455.ct.jpg/x1519410589371.jpg.pagespeed.ic.2QLsuKp9AZ.jpghttp s://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/605a178/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fb4%2Ff9% 2F0835906340ffbb3196a84f58ae60%2Fresizes%2F1500%2F 170921-donaldtrump10things-editorial.jpg

The wave of migrants from the Middle East and Africa is permanently changing Europe for the worse, the 72-year-old president argued.

Mr Trump told The Sun: “I have great love for countries in Europe.

“Don’t forget, essentially I’m a product of the European Union, between Scotland and Germany.

“Right? My father Germany, my mother Scotland.”

But he added: “I think what has happened to Europe is a shame.

“Allowing the immigration to take place in Europe is a shame.

“I think it changed the fabric of Europe and, unless you act very quickly, it’s never going to be what it was and I don’t mean that in a positive way.

“So I think allowing millions and millions of people to come into Europe is very, very sad.

“I think you are losing your culture. Look around. You go through certain areas that didn’t exist ten or 15 years ago.”

Mr Trump made tackling illegal US immigration one of the planks of his 2016 election campaign.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6766947/donald-trump-britain-losing-culture-immigration/


Do you agree with President Trump that the current economic migrant crisis in Europe and the UK has changed both in a Negative way?

[bots]

click bait

[Oliver_W]

Well, huge amounts of people from the Middle East aren't exactly gonna make a place better, are they.

[Kazanne]

In his EXPLOSIVE Sun interview

The US President says the wave of migrants from the Middle East and Africa is permanently changing Europe for the worse

https://wwwassets.rand.org/content/rand/blog/2018/02/we-are-almost-dead-the-politics-of-migrants-and-refugees/_jcr_content/par/blogpost.aspectcrop.868x455.ct.jpg/x1519410589371.jpg.pagespeed.ic.2QLsuKp9AZ.jpghttp s://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/605a178/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Fb4%2Ff9% 2F0835906340ffbb3196a84f58ae60%2Fresizes%2F1500%2F 170921-donaldtrump10things-editorial.jpg

The wave of migrants from the Middle East and Africa is permanently changing Europe for the worse, the 72-year-old president argued.

Mr Trump told The Sun: “I have great love for countries in Europe.

“Don’t forget, essentially I’m a product of the European Union, between Scotland and Germany.

“Right? My father Germany, my mother Scotland.”

But he added: “I think what has happened to Europe is a shame.

“Allowing the immigration to take place in Europe is a shame.

“I think it changed the fabric of Europe and, unless you act very quickly, it’s never going to be what it was and I don’t mean that in a positive way.

“So I think allowing millions and millions of people to come into Europe is very, very sad.

“I think you are losing your culture. Look around. You go through certain areas that didn’t exist ten or 15 years ago.”

Mr Trump made tackling illegal US immigration one of the planks of his 2016 election campaign.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6766947/donald-trump-britain-losing-culture-immigration/


Do you agree with President Trump that the current economic migrant crisis in Europe and the UK has changed both in a Negative way?

I've just seen this on The Wright Stuff, a good debate on there, I have to say he is right, I think.

[Smithy]

Racist wotsit is racist statement shocker

[Crimson Dynamo]

click bait


Its leading the news agenda this morning....

[Crimson Dynamo]

I've just seen this on The Wright Stuff, a good debate on there, I have to say he is right, I think.

He says what people are thinking and what leaders are too scared to say

hence the reason he is more and more popular

[Kazanne]

It's really not racist to see that our culture is being lost,it's all around us,just look ,it's not racist just fact.

[Smithy]

It's really not racist to see that our culture is being lost,it's all around us,just look ,it's not racist just fact.

What culture? Pork pies, the EDL, and coal mines?

Good riddance

[Crimson Dynamo]

What culture? Pork pies, the EDL, and coal mines?

Good riddance

Have they ever had any one of them in Guernsey?


:puzzled:

[Smithy]

Have they ever had any one of them in Guernsey?


:puzzled:
Not relevant

I’m not FROM Guernsey? :facepalm:

[Redway]

What culture?

Except for the worst world food.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not relevant

I’m not FROM Guernsey? :facepalm:

then i am not sure what the 3 weird things represent to you?

:puzzled:

[bots]

It's really not racist to see that our culture is being lost,it's all around us,just look ,it's not racist just fact.

If you mean we have other cultures now than we used to have, i would agree, we are multi cultural, and, I can only speak for myself in welcoming other cultures.

Do i like culturally isolated ghettos? No I don't. and we certainly have a few of those.

I've been part of an ex pat community in other european countries .... we create them where ever we go .... and hated that to.


Cultural integration, there is absolutely nothing wrong with if we take the best from other cultures for everyones benefit.

I think that is the way these discussions should go personally, rather than click bait controversy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you mean we have other cultures now than we used to have, i would agree, we are multi cultural, and, I can only speak for myself in welcoming other cultures.

Do i like culturally isolated ghettos? No I don't. and we certainly have a few of those.

I've been part of an ex pat community in other european countries .... we create them where ever we go .... and hated that to.


Cultural integration, there is absolutely nothing wrong with if we take the best from other cultures for everyones benefit.

I think that is the way these discussions should go personally, rather than click bait controversy.

sadly whenever anyone raises the thorny issue of uncontrolled immigration and the horrible effect its had on cities in England people just go on about why controlled immigration is beneficial and it is but its not what the issue is

failing that they just pull out the race card and try and shut it down

[Tom4784]

The UK was built on the cultures of other countries. We'd have been a very different country were it not for the Vikings, Romans and Anglo Saxons and even our language is based off of a mix of German, Latin and French. We have always been a multicultural country.

You can't 'lose' culture, it can only adapt and change and grow.

[armand.kay]

Culture is forever adapting half of the things we see as 'british' were imported here at the time of the empire... also what exactly has been lost as a result of migration? Because I can't really think of anything

[Josy]

I agree with a lot of his points tbh

[Kazanne]

Culture is forever adapting half of the things we see as 'british' were imported here at the time of the empire... also what exactly has been lost as a result of migration? Because I can't really think of anything

https://www.learnenglish.de/britishculture.html

[Tom4784]

https://www.learnenglish.de/britishculture.html

And none of that is under threat.

Honestly, it's just all hysteria and ignorance tbh.

[Smithy]

https://www.learnenglish.de/britishculture.html

You just posted a list of things that haven’t been affected by migration in any way, shape or form, well done!

[Kazanne]

You just posted a list of things that haven’t been affected by migration in any way, shape or form, well done!

I know , what is your point ?

[Smithy]

I know , what is your point ?

Armand asked what is under threat/has been lost because of immigration and you posted that list, did you even read his post?

[Kazanne]

Armand asked what is under threat/has been lost because of immigration and you posted that list, did you even read his post?


Not that I have to answer to you , but I posted it so people can see what our cultures and traditions are , they can make their own minds up if anything has changed. :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I recall going down to get tickets at West Ham on non match days. The whole of the area was Indian/pakistani, shops, markets people. You saw the odd white person but it was and is too much.

Up in Scotland most cities have a good blend of immigrant and indigenous but look at Bradford, Birmingham or Leicester

:umm2:

[Oliver_W]

Even if British culture as a whole is under threat, no good will come from huge amounts of people coming from islamic cultures would only be a negative.

[Smithy]

Not that I have to answer to you , but I posted it so people can see what our cultures and traditions are , they can make their own minds up if anything has changed. :shrug:

:skull:

YOU LITERALLY ASKED ME WHAT MY POINT WAS; I WAS RESPONDING TO YOU

:joker::joker::joker:

[Kazanne]

:skull:

YOU LITERALLY ASKED ME WHAT MY POINT WAS; I WAS RESPONDING TO YOU

:joker::joker::joker:

So now you shout and then laugh at yourself. Bye

[Vanessa]

I've just seen this on The Wright Stuff, a good debate on there, I have to say he is right, I think.

I think he's right as well. The culture is just too different.

[Smithy]

So now you shout and then laugh at yourself. Bye

It’s the internet hun, you can’t shout, I just typed it in capitals to make sure it was clear.

Bye :wavey:

[bots]

sadly whenever anyone raises the thorny issue of uncontrolled immigration and the horrible effect its had on cities in England people just go on about why controlled immigration is beneficial and it is but its not what the issue is

failing that they just pull out the race card and try and shut it down

i am completely opposed to freedom of movement, but I see that as a completely different issue. Which ever way brexit goes, that has to stop or there will be civil war.

[Oliver_W]

Even though our culture (and most Western cultures) might be a bit of a mix of previous cultures, what does islam have to offer which isn't already here? Nothing good, so why should mass immigration from such countries be a good thing?

[Smithy]

Even though our culture (and most Western cultures) might be a bit of a mix of previous cultures, what does islam have to offer which isn't already here? Nothing good, so why should mass immigration from such countries be a good thing?

So doctors, nurses, carers, dentists shouldn’t be allowed to come here just because they’re from an Islamic country? :conf2:

[Oliver_W]

So doctors, nurses, carers, dentists shouldn’t be allowed to come here just because they’re from an Islamic country? :conf2:

Depends if they bring their culture with them. Such people aren't likely to be the illegal migrants that countries around the Med are facing. Plus, there's an entire planet out there, we can be picky.

[armand.kay]

Even though our culture (and most Western cultures) might be a bit of a mix of previous cultures, what does islam have to offer which isn't already here? Nothing good, so why should mass immigration from such countries be a good thing?

you do realise that islam doesn't really have a culture it all depends what country you're it. for example Nigerian, Turkish and Asian muslims are very different from each other, so it's a bit unfair to stick them all into one camp

[Smithy]

Depends if they bring their culture with them. Such people aren't likely to be the illegal migrants that countries around the Med are facing. Plus, there's an entire planet out there, we can be picky.

Not once does that article reference the immigrants coming to Europe as being illegal immigrants. And why shouldn’t they be allowed to bring their culture? Who are you to say that they can’t? Yeah good luck being picky after Brexit :thumbs:

[armand.kay]

Depends if they bring their culture with them. Such people aren't likely to be the illegal migrants that countries around the Med are facing. Plus, there's an entire planet out there, we can be picky.

what the **** does this even mean? "you're aloud in but leave everything about your identity behind"... how would you even in force this, check up on them on ramadan to make sure they're eating?

[Smithy]

you do realise that islam doesn't really have a culture it all depends what country you're it. for example Nigerian Turkish and Asian muslims are very different from each other, so it's a bit unfair to stick them all into one camp

That’s right wing ignorance for you

[Crimson Dynamo]

@Smithy and Armand

Do you both agree that uncontrolled immigration to Britain is and has been a bad thing?

And do you agree that what we have in say Bradford is bad for Britain?

[Oliver_W]

you do realise that islam doesn't really have a culture it all depends what country you're it. for example Nigerian Turkish and Asian muslims are very different from each other, so it's a bit unfair to stick them all into one camp

Middle Eastern muslims throw gays off roofs, while in Indonesia 93% (http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/) of muslims think being gay is unacceptable, and even in London only half (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law)of muslims think being gay is okay. There might be superficial differences country to country, but the same crap comes up.

[Redway]

Middle Eastern muslims throw gays off roofs, while in Indonesia 93% (http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/) of muslims think being gay is unacceptable, and even in London only half (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law)of muslims think being gay is okay. There might be superficial differences country to country, but the same crap comes up.

Would you say Indonesians are a threat to Britain?

What about white southerners from the Bible Belt? Is their homophobia better because they’re Caucasian?

[Oliver_W]

Would you say Indonesians are a threat to Britain?

What about white southerners from the Bible Belt? Is their homophobia better because they’re Caucasian?

Indonesians aren't directly a threat, but the fact the same stuff comes up in islamic cultures across the world shows how despite the apparent diversity within islam, it all boils down to the same stuff.

As for the Bible Thumpers, they're a relic in their own country. Most people don't give a crap either way if someone's LGBT, and LGBT people have all the rights we need. Their homophobia is bad as well, but they're not a huge "culture" which is trying to spread, they're a dying breed.

[Smithy]

Donald trump is in power and the bible bashing LGBT haters are a dying breed lmfao, ok

[kirklancaster]

Trump is correct in what he has stated and THAT subject is what this thread should be about.

[Oliver_W]

Donald trump is in power and the bible bashing LGBT haters are a dying breed lmfao, ok

Well, more Americans than ever support (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/same-sex-marriage-support_us_5b05a1ebe4b05f0fc8441c8f)gay marriage, and "even" Donald Trump says he's fine (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-same-sex-marriage-231310)with it.

[arista]

Racist wotsit is racist statement shocker


Stopping Illegal Migrants
is Not Racist , though

[Crimson Dynamo]

Trump is correct in what he has stated and THAT subject is what this thread should be about.

Kirk every time what happens is those who seem to be against what the thread is about just attack certain posters and rarely address the issue

but then you and I know this already

[Redway]

Well, more Americans than ever support (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/same-sex-marriage-support_us_5b05a1ebe4b05f0fc8441c8f)gay marriage, and "even" Donald Trump says he's fine (https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-same-sex-marriage-231310)with it.

Same Donald Trump who’s said pervy things about his own flipping daughter. I’d take whatever he says with a pinch of salt

I wasn’t talking about any Americans either. White southerners from the Deep South.

[Oliver_W]

Same Donald Trump who’s said pervy things about his own flipping daughter. I’d take whatever he says with a pinch of salt

I wasn’t talking about any Americans either. White southerners from the Deep South.

What did he say about his daughter, that passed me by?

The views of those white Southerners are evidently a minority in the USA, and increasingly so!

[Marsh.]

What would Trump know about British culture? :joker:

Fake news.

[Redway]

What did he say about his daughter, that passed me by?

The views of those white Southerners are evidently a minority in the USA, and increasingly so!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/donald-trumps-10-worst-sexist-9013070

[Tom4784]

Middle Eastern muslims throw gays off roofs, while in Indonesia 93% (http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/) of muslims think being gay is unacceptable, and even in London only half (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law)of muslims think being gay is okay. There might be superficial differences country to country, but the same crap comes up.

You mean extremists that belong to terrorist organisations, right? Suggesting that all muslims in the middle east do or support that is a dangerously ignorant statement.

Most religions demonise the gays, you can't pick on muslims for it when a good chunk of all religious people believe that homosexuality is a sin. Conversion therapy is a real and present danger and that's something that is purely western in nature.

If you're going to hate on a religion, hate on them all since a lot of the points you're hitting on is not exclusive to muslims.

[Tom4784]

Trump is correct in what he has stated and THAT subject is what this thread should be about.

Except he isn't correct about anything he's said about the UK. He knows nothing of UK culture or culture in general. Anybody who thinks that culture is a static thing doesn't understand what culture is.

[Kazanne]

What did he say about his daughter, that passed me by?

The views of those white Southerners are evidently a minority in the USA, and increasingly so!

It's probably come from some rag top newpaper,or the silly made up stuff from his detractors,all hearsay,until proved

[Oliver_W]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/donald-trumps-10-worst-sexist-9013070
Here's the full exchange (https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/donald-trump-ivanka-ass_us_57f9553ae4b0b6a43032d9a0):
“By the way, your daughter,” Stern said to Trump.

“She’s beautiful,” the brash businessman responded.

“Can I say this? A piece of ass,” Stern asked.

“Yeah,” Trump replied.
So rather than referring to her that way himself, he said that a "shock jock" on an R-rated radio show could say it.

[Smithy]

Stopping Illegal Migrants
is Not Racist , though

Where in the article does it state he’s talking about illegal migrants?

It doesn’t

[Crimson Dynamo]

Where in the article does it state he’s talking about illegal migrants?

It doesn’t

The UK has no idea what migrants are legal or illegal so that is a null point

[Brillopad]

What culture? Pork pies, the EDL, and coal mines?

Good riddance

Maybe you have no culture - others of us do! The usual if you don't value something it doesn't exist nonsense. Speak for yourself - not the rest of us!

[Smithy]

Maybe you have no culture - others of us do! The usual if you don't value something it doesn't exist nonsense. Speak for yourself - not the rest of us!

What is British culture that’s being threatened then?

[Brillopad]

What is British culture that’s being threatened then?

If you don't FEEL it you don't have it. It shouldn't need pointing out unless of course people just take everything our culture offers for granted because they know nothing different.

[Twosugars]

The UK has no idea what migrants are legal or illegal so that is a null point

That's the UK fault, without border control and id cards you can't do it properly

[Smithy]

If you don't FEEL it you don't have it. It shouldn't need pointing out unless of course people just take everything our culture offers for granted because they know nothing different.

So it isn’t even an actual thing, it’s just a feeling, wow that makes the whole thing even ****ing stupider

[Brillopad]

So it isn’t even an actual thing, it’s just a feeling, wow that makes the whole thing even ****ing stupider

It's much more than that as anyone who actually understands would know. But as I say culture is something you feel - something that has shaped your life and understanding, that gives you rights and freedoms, that makes you feel comfortable with a sense of belonging and pride and a lot more...

[Smithy]

It's much more than that as anyone who actually understands would know. But as I say culture is something you feel - something that has shaped your life and understanding, that gives you rights and freedoms, that makes you feel comfortable with a sense of belonging and pride and a lot more...

And people coming here take that away from you?

How pathetic :joker:

[Tom4784]

Culture is history and tradition in part. It's not a feeling, it's certainly not something vague enough that you can deny someone's opinion on it by saying 'they don't understand.'

History and traditions are ever growing. It isn't overwritten, it just grows to encompass more and more aspects of living in Britain.

The whole idea that we are 'losing our culture' is as ignorant as when people are saying 'muslims are taking over'. It's just ignorant hysteria.

[The Slim Reaper]

It's much more than that as anyone who actually understands would know. But as I say culture is something you feel - something that has shaped your life and understanding, that gives you rights and freedoms, that makes you feel comfortable with a sense of belonging and pride and a lot more...

Culture isn't static, it's a dynamic constantly evolving thing. Curry and Kebabs are part of English culture, and yet only around 50-60 years ago, how many English people had ever tried them?

Public executions, child labour, and poor houses were part of our culture at one time, too.

[Smithy]

Culture is history and tradition in part. It's not a feeling, it's certainly not something vague enough that you can deny someone's opinion on it by saying 'they don't understand.'

History and traditions are ever growing. It isn't overwritten, it just grows to encompass more and more aspects of living in Britain.

The whole idea that we are 'losing our culture' is as ignorant as when people are saying 'muslims are taking over'. It's just ignorant hysteria.

Culture isn't static, it's a dynamic constantly evolving thing. Curry and Kebabs are part of English culture, and yet only around 50-60 years ago, how many English people had ever tried them?

Public executions, child labour, and poor houses were part of our culture at one time, too.

:clap1:


“It’s a feeling”

What a load of bollocks, just an excuse to spout racist tosh

[Crimson Dynamo]

So it isn’t even an actual thing, it’s just a feeling, wow that makes the whole thing even ****ing stupider

If there was a thread about gay culture i am quite sure your posts would not be attacking the word culture


:facepalm:

[Tom4784]

If there was a thread about gay culture i am quite sure your posts would not be attacking the word culture


:facepalm:

Gay culture is a real thing though. It isn't a feeling, it's a history.

The battles for equal rights, the arts, history, speech and traditions. It's tangible and real.

[Smithy]

If there was a thread about gay culture i am quite sure your posts would not be attacking the word culture
:facepalm:

That’s because I’m not ****ing ***** enough to claim that culture is a feeling :joker::joker::joker::joker:

[The Slim Reaper]

If there was a thread about gay culture i am quite sure your posts would not be attacking the word culture


:facepalm:

What does that have to do with anything? The discussion is the supposed harm migrants/refugees/asylum seekers are doing to english/british culture.

[Brillopad]

That’s because I’m not ****ing ***** enough to claim that culture is a feeling :joker::joker::joker::joker:

You clearly lack understanding if you don't get what I mean by 'feel'. Your problem not mine.

[Smithy]

You clearly lack understanding if you don't get what I mean by 'feel'. Your problem not mine.

:laugh3::laugh3:

[The Slim Reaper]

You clearly lack understanding if you don't get what I mean by 'feel'. Your problem not mine.

Fighting Double Standards :laugh3:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Gay culture is a real thing though. It isn't a feeling, it's a history.

The battles for equal rights, the arts, history, speech and traditions. It's tangible and real.

as is English, scottish Irish culture etc


i am glad you agree

[Smithy]

as is English, scottish Irish culture etc


i am glad you agree

How are people taking that away though? That’s the question that was originally asked that nobody has been able to answer

[Oliver_W]

How are people taking that away though? That’s the question that was originally asked that nobody has been able to answer

It might not be taken away or hugely changed within our lifetimes, but mass migration can slowly change a culture, as culture has changed and evolved before. Western culture is better to live in than islamic culture, and I know which I'd rather my descendants get to live in.

[Tom4784]

as is English, scottish Irish culture etc


i am glad you agree

You should read my posts before you make comments like that which contradict what I've already written.

I've never denied that the UK culture exists, just that it isn't a 'feeling' which is just meaningless. It's history and traditions and more which can't be ovewritten, only expanded upon.

Culture simply is not a 'feeling'.

[Tom4784]

It might not be taken away or hugely changed within our lifetimes, but mass migration can slowly change a culture, as culture has changed and evolved before. Western culture is better to live in than islamic culture, and I know which I'd rather my descendants get to live in.

But this is the same as people saying 'MUSLIMS ARE TAKING OVER!' and to that I say, how?

It's a minority of muslims that believe Shariah Law should be a thing in the UK. So a minority of a minority in essence. How is their mindset going to take over when the vast majority of the UK opposes it? Does everyone else aside from Extremist muslims stop breeding for a decade or so? Do we just vanish into the ether? It's a senseless and irrational fear brought on by ignorance.

[Oliver_W]

:joker::joker:

Well I feel a lot better after rereading this thread, your delusions have perked me right up
Do you think the culture across the UK, as it is now, will remain static forever?

It's a minority of muslims that believe Shariah Law should be a thing in the UK.
For now, but that could change with mass migration.

[Matthew.]

yeah he can leave...

[Smithy]

Do you think the culture across the UK, as it is now, will remain static forever?

For now, but that could change with mass migration.

No of course not, other cultures will only help to improve it

But I’m done with this now, dezzy already managed to show that you’re just ignorant and you yourself have just said it COULD change, not that it will, as he said, it’s an irrational fear.

It’s ****ing dumb :joker: :joker::joker:

[Tom4784]

Do you think the culture across the UK, as it is now, will remain static forever?


For now, but that could change with mass migration.

Again, how? Not enough muslims are coming in to override the majority because not everyone that's coming in is a fundamentalist or an extremist. You are painting in broad strokes.

The minority, if anything, will likely shrink in generations to come since newer generations will be and have been raised in a western culture and will only know the freedoms that comes with it.

[Underscore]

And do you agree that what we have in say Bradford is bad for Britain?

Bradford literally isn't as bad as people make out, yes it's scruffy and grotty (no thanks to white chavs either) but I could go in the town centre and I'd see a good mix.

I live 30 mins from Bradford

[Brillopad]

:joker::joker:

Well I feel a lot better after rereading this thread, your delusions have perked me right up

They are not delusions because you say so. Many equally feel that your delusion of Britain being one big melting pot of cultures that understand and respect each other is one big delusion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

uQCn-6N9hng

[arista]

uQCn-6N9hng


Yes a sad Fact
LT

[kirklancaster]

Kirk every time what happens is those who seem to be against what the thread is about just attack certain posters and rarely address the issue

but then you and I know this already


True, LT, and know it already we certainly do. It is a shame, really.

[Alf]

You can argue until the cows come home, but it's all gonna end in war, you'll have to decide what side you're on then.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How are people taking that away though? That’s the question that was originally asked that nobody has been able to answer

well if whole areas are immigrants, who have their own religion, shops, entertainment and all hark back to their original country it replaces british culture with that of the original

that is not hard to work out. :shrug:

if one street has one family who are say Indian or two them cultures can merge and take the best bits of both but if the whole street is Indian and the next and the next and they want to live like they were in India in the UK then it creates issues

that is a crude way of explaining it but you get my point

[Crimson Dynamo]

im sure the Spanish get sick of Brits doing the same on the costa

[Kazanne]

You can argue until the cows come home, but it's all gonna end in war, you'll have to decide what side you're on then.

Many a true word said in jest Alf,:wavey:

[Oliver_W]

Again, how? Not enough muslims are coming in to override the majority because not everyone that's coming in is a fundamentalist or an extremist. You are painting in broad strokes.
You don't need to be extremist to be against LGBT, that's pretty mainstream in islamic culture. Enough to shift the majority might not be coming right now, but if the boats keep sailing, and the migrants keep getting distributed across Europe, things could change.

The minority, if anything, will likely shrink in generations to come since newer generations will be and have been raised in a western culture and will only know the freedoms that comes with it.

Is that why half of muslims in London are against homosexuality, because of how integrated they are?

[arista]

Yes Strict Muslims
Hate gays

[Twosugars]

You can argue until the cows come home, but it's all gonna end in war, you'll have to decide what side you're on then.

what is it with you Alf and a civil war? It's not the first time you say that :shrug:

[bots]

what is it with you Alf and a civil war? It's not the first time you say that :shrug:

there will be a civil war if free movement is not stopped

[Twosugars]

free movement with the EU?
didn't know Poles were so upsetting

[bots]

free movement with the EU?
didn't know Poles were so upsetting

nobody in themselves is upsetting, its the numbers coming in unchecked .... we have had polish immigration in Scotland since the 2nd world war and never had issues

[Crimson Dynamo]

nobody in themselves is upsetting, its the numbers coming in unchecked .... we have had polish immigration in Scotland since the 2nd world war and never had issues

yes and very welcome they are too

[Twosugars]

yes and very welcome they are too

so why war if they're welcome?

[armand.kay]

You don't need to be extremist to be against LGBT, that's pretty mainstream in islamic culture. Enough to shift the majority might not be coming right now, but if the boats keep sailing, and the migrants keep getting distributed across Europe, things could change.



Is that why half of muslims in London are against homosexuality, because of how integrated they are?

if you did the same survey with people from conservative christian countries would you not get similar results? I mean look at Jamaica gay people are still being heavily prosecuted. A lot of the world still doesn't share our progressive views on homosexuality so blocking people from coming into our country simply based on that.

Like Dezzy said the muslims here are the minority. So far their presence here has had no effect on my life as a gay man in this country and I've not seen anything to suggest they've made any impact on my rights. Also what does homosexuality have to do with British culture wasn't it only 35 years ago when homosexuality was decriminalised across all of Britain and isn't our own prime minister in bed with the DUP a notoriously religious and homophobic party???

Trumps statements suggest that we are already in the process of us loosing our cuture and nobody in this thread has managed to convince me that this is happening. So back to the actual topic. What about British culture has actually been taken away from us by immigrants?

[Twosugars]

You can argue until the cows come home, but it's all gonna end in war, you'll have to decide what side you're on then.

there will be a civil war if free movement is not stopped

so glad I have my EU passport
but sorry for those who have nowhere to go

[Beso]

if you did the same survey with people from conservative christian countries would you not get similar results? I mean look at Jamaica gay people are still being heavily prosecuted. A lot of the world still doesn't share our progressive views on homosexuality so blocking people from coming into our country simply based on that.

Like Dezzy said the muslims here are the minority. So far their presence here has had no effect on my life as a gay man in this country and I've not seen anything to suggest they've made any impact on my rights. Also what does homosexuality have to do with British culture wasn't it only 35 years ago when homosexuality was decriminalised across all of Britain and isn't our own prime minister in bed with the DUP a notoriously religious and homophobic party???

Trumps statements suggest that we are already in the process of us loosing our cuture and nobody in this thread has managed to convince me that this is happening. So back to the actual topic. What about British culture has actually been taken away from us by immigrants?

You need to walk hand in hand with your boyfriend in the right areas...it will soon become a problem for you.:smug:

[Brillopad]

Again, how? Not enough muslims are coming in to override the majority because not everyone that's coming in is a fundamentalist or an extremist. You are painting in broad strokes.

The minority, if anything, will likely shrink in generations to come since newer generations will be and have been raised in a western culture and will only know the freedoms that comes with it.

There are already at least four towns in the country than have a majority non-white population - so how does that tally with your wild claim there are not enough muslims coming into to override the majority.

It isn't just about extremists, though of course the biggest concern, but a very different way of living and thinking as you well know. Your last paragraph is optimistic but by no means a certainty, more hopeful, and if you are wrong life in this country could be very different for future generations who may not be able to enjoy the freedoms we are used to.

Not a situation I want to contribute to.

[Twosugars]

You need to walk hand in hand with your boyfriend in the right areas...it will soon become a problem for you.:smug:
tbh it's always been a problem
My bf and I would never dream of holding hands in public

[Kazanne]

You need to walk hand in hand with your boyfriend in the right areas...it will soon become a problem for you.:smug:

I was going to say similar to this ,just because it hasn't affected you armand,doesn't mean to say it never will or doesn't happen.

[Kazanne]

There are already at least four towns in the country than have a majority non-white population - so how does that tally with your wild claim there are not enough muslims coming into to override the majority.

It isn't just about extremists, though of course the biggest concern, but a very different way of living and thinking as you well know. Your last paragraph is optimistic but by no means a certainty, more hopeful, and if you are wrong life in this country could be very different for future generations who may not be able to enjoy the freedoms we are used to.

Not a situation I want to contribute to.

Well for one,our girls wont be able to dress as they want and will be second class citizens, and used and abused.

[Tom4784]

You don't need to be extremist to be against LGBT, that's pretty mainstream in islamic culture. Enough to shift the majority might not be coming right now, but if the boats keep sailing, and the migrants keep getting distributed across Europe, things could change.



Is that why half of muslims in London are against homosexuality, because of how integrated they are?

Blatant changing of the goalposts here.

You couldn't win the argument on the culture side of things so now you're bringing up the LGBT again to try to score points.

As I said before, you could bring as many muslims into the country as you want, as many hardliners as you can fit and it won't affect the culture one bit because they aren't the overwhelming majority. They are outnumbered in the muslim community itself and are miniscule outside of it. All these people acting like Muslims can just Thanos click their fingers and everything that made this country what it is would disappear in an instant are just irrational. They always forget the tens of millions of non muslims that aren't suddenly going to disappear in this scenairio.

It's just illogical ignorance.

As for the LGBT point, ask any religion the same question and you'd get a similar 50/50 split, you cling to that stat so you can hate muslims while ignoring the fact that all religions preach a similar view on homosexuality. A 50/50 religious split hasn't stopped the march to progress in the past and it won't change anything now.

[Oliver_W]

As I said before, you could bring as many muslims into the country as you want, as many hardliners as you can fit and it won't affect the culture one bit because they aren't the overwhelming majority. They are outnumbered in the muslim community itself
Do you have a source for this?

[Tom4784]

You can argue until the cows come home, but it's all gonna end in war, you'll have to decide what side you're on then.

This desire for a war is kinda disturbing.

[Tom4784]

Do you have a source for this?

Ah, the 'SD Special! Losing an argument? Buy time by asking the opposition to do a google search for you!'

If you want to disprove what I'm saying then go ahead and disprove it, be less lazy and research your own damn counter arguments.

I see you ignored my remarks about all religion having a similar 50/50 split in relation to views on LGBT, very telling that.

[Alf]

This desire for a war is kinda disturbing.No desire from me, just pointing out the inevitable.

You don't need to be disturbed by me, I'm no threat to you.

[Tom4784]

No desire from me, just pointing out the inevitable.

You don't need to be disturbed by me, I'm no threat to you.

It's not inevitable, it's irrational. People clamouring for a damn race war disturb me more than muslim people just wanting to get on with their lives.

[Twosugars]

Ah, the 'SD Special! Losing an argument? Buy time by asking the opposition to do a google search for you!'

If you want to disprove what I'm saying then go ahead and disprove it, be less lazy and research your own damn counter arguments.

I see you ignored my remarks about all religion having a similar 50/50 split in relation to views on LGBT, very telling that.

so true :laugh:

[Tom4784]

This thread is really starting to remind me of a certain Beauty and the Beast song.

qAZmHrtloD8

'We don't like what we don't understand
In fact it scares us
And this monster is mysterious at least'

[Twosugars]

It's not inevitable, it's irrational. People clamouring for a damn race war disturb me more than muslim people just wanting to get on with their lives.

don't think it's just a race war
any foreigners, including whites, would get it

[Alf]

It's not inevitable, it's irrational. People clamouring for a damn race war disturb me more than muslim people just wanting to get on with their lives.War has happened right throughout history and is still happening today. What makes you think that we're safe from it?

[Oliver_W]

Ah, the 'SD Special! Losing an argument? Buy time by asking the opposition to do a google search for you!'

If you want to disprove what I'm saying then go ahead and disprove it, be less lazy and research your own damn counter arguments.

I see you ignored my remarks about all religion having a similar 50/50 split in relation to views on LGBT, very telling that.

I've already linked how prevalent anti-LGBT views are among multiple islamic communities.

According to this (http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-homosexuality/#data-2), over 60% of Orthodox Christians are in favour of LGBT being accepted. And that's lower than those of Catholics and Mainline Protestants who think the same.

[Tom4784]

I've already linked how prevalent anti-LGBT views are among multiple islamic communities.

According to this (http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/views-about-homosexuality/#data-2), over 60% of Orthodox Christians are in favour of LGBT being accepted. And that's lower than those of Catholics and Mainline Protestants who think the same.

Ah, so you compare muslims as a whole and you cherry pick whatever factions of Christianity suit you best. I getcha.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I note

once again

The naysayers are just not addressing the issue of uncontrolled immigration and the negative effect on the UK culture and communities

Perhaps they could address that?

[Twosugars]

I thought Scotland needed immigration?

[GoldHeart]

Ah, so you compare muslims as a whole and you cherry pick whatever factions of Christianity suit you best. I getcha.

Why has a debate about Trump & immigration turned into another argument about religion :facepalm: .

Trump is a mentally disturbed bull in a China shop and most of what he says is BS abd his tweets are mostly incoherent :crazy: .
And today's debate on The Wright stuff was unwatchable ,Nigel Farage is a weasel on crack with his head so far up Trump's bum :bored: I had to stop watching.

[Oliver_W]

Ah, so you compare muslims as a whole and you cherry pick whatever factions of Christianity suit you best. I getcha.

Okay I'll put it this way - the mean average of the different Christian groups who view it as acceptable was 57%, as opposed to 45% of muslims according to that data.

[Tom4784]

Why has a debate about Trump & immigration turned into another argument about religion :facepalm: .

Trump is a mentally disturbed bull in a China shop and most of what he says is BS abd his tweets are mostly incoherent :crazy: .
And today's debate on The Wright stuff was unwatchable ,Nigel Farage is a weasel on crack with his head so far up Trump's bum :bored: I had to stop watching.

Why quote my post like I'm responsible for it? I'm not the one clamouring for war or acting like Shariah Law is even a possibility.

The muslim hysteria is utterly ridiculous and illogical, there's never going to be a 'muslim takeover' it's just people doing their best to justify their prejudice and Trump feeds on that prejudice since it's what got him elected.

[Tom4784]

Okay I'll put it this way - the mean average of the different Christian groups who view it as acceptable was 57%, as opposed to 45% of muslims according to that data.

So just over a ten percent difference, that's not much. You would have to be pedantic to the point of impracticality to act like 45% isn't basically a 50/50 split if you're gonna argue that 57% is dramatic enough to argue that the same 50/50 split isn't in effect for christianity. Thus my point stands, it's an issue common with all religion.

[GoldHeart]

Why quote my post like I'm responsible for it? I'm not the one clamouring for war or acting like Shariah Law is even a possibility.

The muslim hysteria is utterly ridiculous and illogical, there's never going to be a 'muslim takeover' it's just people doing their best to justify their prejudice and Trump feeds on that prejudice since it's what got him elected.

I never said YOU were solely responsible .
I just responded to the latest comment ,which happened to be yours so don't take it personal :idc: .

But this thread is losing its way with the "Muslim hysteria" as you put it .

[kirklancaster]

Again, how? Not enough muslims are coming in to override the majority because not everyone that's coming in is a fundamentalist or an extremist. You are painting in broad strokes.

The minority, if anything, will likely shrink in generations to come since newer generations will be and have been raised in a western culture and will only know the freedoms that comes with it.

Sorry, but this is ALL grossly erroneous.

1) "Not enough muslims are coming in to override the majority because not everyone that's coming in is a fundamentalist or an extremist. "

The above statement is factually wrong because:

a) It takes no account of exploding birthrates among Immigrant mothers who are ALREADY in the UK.

Data from September 2015 show that the number of migrant babies born in the UK was at a record high with over a quarter of all births now being to foreign-born mothers and it is calculated that by 2021 over one-third of all UK babies born will be to immigrant mothers if the trend continues.

By contrast birthrates to UK-born mothers fell slightly from 1.77 to 1.76.
.
By way of example, the birthrate to non-UK born mothers in the heavily immigrant-populated London borough of Newham was a staggering 76.7 per cent of all births in there in 2016.

Immigrants, notably Muslims, are also much younger - 30.4 years as opposed to 43.8 to their UK born counterparts and produce more children; 2.6 as opposed to 1.6.

b) Even in 2014 ONS data showed that mass migration had caused the UK's population to soar past 64 million for the first time and in just ONE year - from 2012 to 2013 an extra 400,000 people were living here - a large number of whom were Muslim.

So while you are correct that "not everyone that's coming in is a fundamentalist or an extremist" a percentage of those 'coming in' ARE fundamentalists and it also follows that of the Muslim babies which are born here SOME are being born into Islamic Fundamentalist families.

When added to those fundamentalists and their sympathisers who are ALREADY ensconced here, the above numbers - though still a tiny minority of the majority of peaceful, law-abiding moderate Muslims within the UK - become seriously problematical:

TIBB has tens of thousands of members but it is only a hard-core of members who are the most vociferous and 'pro-active', and in some cases the more 'extreme', who post so regularly on the SD forums, the rest - being more passive - do not.

Yet, the greater the membership of TIBB becomes, then the greater the probability of at least some of those new members being pro-active, vociferous and even extreme in their views.

The difference between TIBB and the Muslim community is that on this forum WE hold no power and even our views are 'policed' for extremism or rule breaking by 'Moderators'.

Sadly, however, history teaches us that in the Muslim community it is the very fundamentalist minority themselves who control the silent peaceful majority.

I will not go into detail here but will do so in another post if challenged with the usual delusional dismissiveness, but it is a FACT that many Mosques and schools throughout the UK are preaching Jihad and hatred of 'Dirty Kuffar' non-Muslims - especially British whites.

It is a fact that many areas which are little more than Muslim enclaves are 'No Go' areas to indigenous white British.

It is a fact that Sharia Law is being OPENLY practised in many Towns and Cities within the UK and UK Law contemptuously ignored.

It is a fact that young Brtish Muslim males are attacking and insulting and intimidating British women on British streets who just happen to be wearing Western clothes and make-up.

It is a fact that even foreign tourists to the UK have been violently attacked by Muslims because they were walking along drinking from a can of beer on a hot Summer's day or some other innocent 'affront' to their Islamic code.

It is a fact that a cameraman filming a policeman talking with Islamic radicals who were recruiting was threatened ON FILM by Muslim males that he would "be killed" if he kept on filming. (The cowardly PC - probably intimidated by P.C. and a fear of being labelled 'Islamaphobic' - walked away. )

It is a fact that two elderly Christian Ministers were threatened with arrest by the British police because they were trying to hand out Christan pamphlets on a British street and were told: "This is a Muslim area and you are not allowed to do that in here" - and THIS from a British policeman.

The above are NOT isolated incidents but are occurring EVERY day somewhere in the UK.

The authorities; including Government, Councils AND police, are so intimidated by Political Correctness and a fear of being labelled 'Racist' and 'Islamaphobic' that they 'turn a blind eye' to these problems - which is why the Pakistani Muslim 'Child-Sex' grooming gangs were able to flourish with impunity for so long and in so many areas of the UK.

There is also the fact that a lot of our Councils, Education Boards, and other branches of the all-powerful decision-making, policy-drafting Civil service are already peppered with Muslims in positions of power.

British culture, British values and British traditions ARE already being eroded by Islamic Fundamentalists who have NO respect for their own people let alone the people of this country and I'm sorry, but it is you and every other like you who deny the truth about this who is a part of the problem.

Ridiculing members who try to illustrate this truth in their posts does not help.

Note to the Admin and Mods:

This is NOT an 'anti-Muslim' post, it is an anti-Muslim fundamentalist post - one which is merely responding to an erroneous post with provable fact and truth.

[armand.kay]

You need to walk hand in hand with your boyfriend in the right areas...it will soon become a problem for you.:smug:

I was going to say similar to this ,just because it hasn't affected you armand,doesn't mean to say it never will or doesn't happen.

I don't really feel comfortable walking around anywhere in England holding hands with a man and that has nothing to do with muslims here... In fact the only time I was made to feel uncomfortable because of my gayness was by a group of older white men in a pub

[Alf]

I think people should stop being racist. No one is being personal.Earlier in this thread us British people were told that we have no culture.

How far up on your insult hierarchy does that get? because you haven't confronted them yet, so I'm guessing that you think it's ok to insult the British?

[kirklancaster]

I read and concur :love:

Hi Maru,

I am conflicted by the urge/need to rectify propaganda and erroneous posts and the long-held realisation that this place is as much an arena for 'debate' as the average town centre pub at 11 pm on a Saturday night. :laugh:

I think I've had enough though for a few months.:wavey:

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-Europe-Immigration-Identity/dp/1472942248

This is a very interesting book that tackles this subject head on (and about culture)

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61bPgEl9KIL._SX327_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Maru]

I don't see LT as racist at all. His and other comnents in this section have been very helpful to understanding the anxiety behind the 2016 elections in the US.. which is kinda crazy actually because I've learned more here than from ppl back home. We don't all have to agree to benefit, but because SD has only become an echochamber for all the cultural upheaval in the West, it may not play well on a site that struggles with lowering activity.... there is going to be increasing tendency to clique up in response to these issues and for personal issues to play out there.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't see LT as racist at all. His and other comnents in this section have been very helpful to understanding the anxiety behind the 2016 elections in the US.. which is kinda crazy actually because I've learned more here than from ppl back home. We don't all have to agree to benefit, but because SD has only become an echochamber for all the cultural upheaval in the West, it may not play well on a site that struggles with lowering activity.... there is going to be increasing tendency to clique up in response to these issues and for personal issues to play out there.

:douf:

[Tom4784]

Sorry, but this is ALL grossly erroneous.

1) "Not enough muslims are coming in to override the majority because not everyone that's coming in is a fundamentalist or an extremist. "

The above statement is factually wrong because:

a) It takes no account of exploding birthrates among Immigrant mothers who are ALREADY in the UK.

Data from September 2015 show that the number of migrant babies born in the UK was at a record high with over a quarter of all births now being to foreign-born mothers and it is calculated that by 2021 over one-third of all UK babies born will be to immigrant mothers if the trend continues.

By contrast birthrates to UK-born mothers fell slightly from 1.77 to 1.76.
.
By way of example, the birthrate to non-UK born mothers in the heavily immigrant-populated London borough of Newham was a staggering 76.7 per cent of all births in there in 2016.

Immigrants, notably Muslims, are also much younger - 30.4 years as opposed to 43.8 to their UK born counterparts and produce more children; 2.6 as opposed to 1.6.

b) Even in 2014 ONS data showed that mass migration had caused the UK's population to soar past 64 million for the first time and in just ONE year - from 2012 to 2013 an extra 400,000 people were living here - a large number of whom were Muslim.

So while you are correct that "not everyone that's coming in is a fundamentalist or an extremist" a percentage of those 'coming in' ARE fundamentalists and it also follows that of the Muslim babies which are born here SOME are being born into Islamic Fundamentalist families.

When added to those fundamentalists and their sympathisers who are ALREADY ensconced here, the above numbers - though still a tiny minority of the majority of peaceful, law-abiding moderate Muslims within the UK - become seriously problematical:

TIBB has tens of thousands of members but it is only a hard-core of members who are the most vociferous and 'pro-active', and in some cases the more 'extreme', who post so regularly on the SD forums, the rest - being more passive - do not.

Yet, the greater the membership of TIBB becomes, then the greater the probability of at least some of those new members being pro-active, vociferous and even extreme in their views.

The difference between TIBB and the Muslim community is that on this forum WE hold no power and even our views are 'policed' for extremism or rule breaking by 'Moderators'.

Sadly, however, history teaches us that in the Muslim community it is the very fundamentalist minority themselves who control the silent peaceful majority.

I will not go into detail here but will do so in another post if challenged with the usual delusional dismissiveness, but it is a FACT that many Mosques and schools throughout the UK are preaching Jihad and hatred of 'Dirty Kuffar' non-Muslims - especially British whites.

It is a fact that many areas which are little more than Muslim enclaves are 'No Go' areas to indigenous white British.

It is a fact that Sharia Law is being OPENLY practised in many Towns and Cities within the UK and UK Law contemptuously ignored.

It is a fact that young Brtish Muslim males are attacking and insulting and intimidating British women on British streets who just happen to be wearing Western clothes and make-up.

It is a fact that even foreign tourists to the UK have been violently attacked by Muslims because they were walking along drinking from a can of beer on a hot Summer's day or some other innocent 'affront' to their Islamic code.

It is a fact that a cameraman filming a policeman talking with Islamic radicals who were recruiting was threatened ON FILM by Muslim males that he would "be killed" if he kept on filming. (The cowardly PC - probably intimidated by P.C. and a fear of being labelled 'Islamaphobic' - walked away. )

It is a fact that two elderly Christian Ministers were threatened with arrest by the British police because they were trying to hand out Christan pamphlets on a British street and were told: "This is a Muslim area and you are not allowed to do that in here" - and THIS from a British policeman.

The above are NOT isolated incidents but are occurring EVERY day somewhere in the UK.

The authorities; including Government, Councils AND police, are so intimidated by Political Correctness and a fear of being labelled 'Racist' and 'Islamaphobic' that they 'turn a blind eye' to these problems - which is why the Pakistani Muslim 'Child-Sex' grooming gangs were able to flourish with impunity for so long and in so many areas of the UK.

There is also the fact that a lot of our Councils, Education Boards, and other branches of the all-powerful decision-making, policy-drafting Civil service are already peppered with Muslims in positions of power.

British culture, British values and British traditions ARE already being eroded by Islamic Fundamentalists who have NO respect for their own people let alone the people of this country and I'm sorry, but it is you and every other like you who deny the truth about this who is a part of the problem.

Ridiculing members who try to illustrate this truth in their posts does not help.

Note to the Admin and Mods:

This is NOT an 'anti-Muslim' post, it is an anti-Muslim fundamentalist post - one which is merely responding to an erroneous post with provable fact and truth.

You could make a baby factory out of extremist muslim women and they still wouldn't become capable of 'taking over'.

The problem with your point of view is that you discount that all the non-extremist people in the UK are also having babies and growing out the majority. I said before but for an extremist islamic mindset to be prevalent enough to take hold, everyone that isn't a muslim would probably have to stop having babies for years, a less than one percent drop in birth rates from non muslims is not going to change a single thing.

The whole thing about Shariah Law is fake news as well. Shariah Law has not overtaken the law of the land ANYWHERE in the UK and it never will because there's still the vast majority of the country opposed to it and that majority will always be in place since extremism is a minority in the muslim communities, never mind in comparison to the majority of british people as a whole.

Your 'facts' are very much skewed and poisoned by opinion. Most women will tell you that, if they get abuse, it'll be from more than just muslims. Men treating women like **** is an issue that transcends race or religion.

[Brillopad]

so true :laugh:

Yes it is for those accusing others. Dezzy always used to tell people to provide evidence for their comments until people started to telling him to do one and if he wanted proof he could go and find it. Now he is doing the same.

[kirklancaster]

You could make a baby factory out of extremist muslim women and they still wouldn't become capable of 'taking over'.

The problem with your point of view is that you discount that all the non-extremist people in the UK are also having babies and growing out the majority. I said before but for an extremist islamic mindset to be prevalent enough to take hold, everyone that isn't a muslim would probably have to stop having babies for years, a less than one percent drop in birth rates from non muslims is not going to change a single thing.

The whole thing about Shariah Law is fake news as well. Shariah Law has not overtaken the law of the land ANYWHERE in the UK and it never will because there's still the vast majority of the country opposed to it and that majority will always be in place since extremism is a minority in the muslim communities, never mind in comparison to the majority of british people as a whole.

Your 'facts' are very much skewed and poisoned by opinion. Most women will tell you that, if they get abuse, it'll be from more than just muslims. Men treating women like **** is an issue that transcends race or religion.

Thank you for the response, Dezzy.

[Tom4784]

Plus Kirk, you're discounting the fact a lot of muslim people were raised in a western culture and current and future generations will only identify more with the freedoms they have in a western soceity. As I said to Oliver, chances are the minority of extremists will grow smaller with future generations, not bigger.

[Maru]

Hi Maru,

I am conflicted by the urge/need to rectify propaganda and erroneous posts and the long-held realisation that this place is as much an arena for 'debate' as the average town centre pub at 11 pm on a Saturday night. :laugh:

I think I've had enough though for a few months.:wavey:

I misread for a second there and thought you said you were conflicted while at the pub @ 11pm (believable time difference bc Im still waking up :spin:), and that you had had enough beer for a few months....

[bots]

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

[Kazanne]

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

:clap1::clap1:

[Brillopad]

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

Very true.

[Crimson Dynamo]

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

nailed it

[hijaxers]

I think he's right as well. The culture is just too different.

Yes i agree with you Donald is right on this.

[hijaxers]

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

Absolutely spot on there.

[Maru]

it's simple laws of physics that if you add to much of something too quickly, you upset the equilibrium, so in order to avoid that, you fit a valve or a tap, add a drainage point etc etc

The same is true of cultures. If you swamp a culture it will get eroded. The only way to avoid that is to discourage ghettos and control the rate of entry based on what maintains the equilibrium.

I don't see how that is difficult to grasp and it is in no way racist or prejudiced to insist on that method of controlling the equilibrium.

Yeah I had said something recently to this effect when I went to go reply to something in that order. I didn't post it because it got too long and I wasn't really "ready" to get my shoulder tapped to be pulled into any other surrounding discussions. I think people underestimate the sort of energy level that a person has to have in order to regularly participate in SD discussions that regularly branch off into multiple intense conversations...again, is another reason why I support a strict offtopic rule ... that is really unattractive for the casual user of this site, either because they don't have the energy or the time.. so we really are getting only skewed perspective in SD, we're not really seeing the casual player... we are only see posts from the most emotionally or intellectually invested of folk, usually... and that leads to a lot of conversations to appear to be more straight forward than they likely would be in the real world.

On topic to what you were saying... I grew up in a very old part of the city, and that is where the immigrant community has really moved in. First 18 years of my life I was not really "in touch" with the "white" culture as many so "colorfully" describe often... that's not really a thing where I came from.

Anyway, we used joke often about all our individual differences then and now. It's not stigmatized the way it is in other parts of the country... anyway, we all knocked our ghetto, but loved our community strangely enough. A lot of my peers have either moved out of the area or stubbornly stick to what they know... but it's not like they too didn't suffer from the same adverse effects of immigration. They had their own views.. it wasn't just a "white-ness" thing imo. Many of these people move to these areas for a better life.. and are also unhappy when they see negative conditions or the behaviors of a view usher in a speedy decline.

I think what you say about the speed of it is the gist of it for issues where space is limited. In Europe this is the case, but we also see this in older cities across the US. Houston is very young in comparison, but grew very rapidly and unchecked in recent decades, particularly in terms of sprawl... there is no geography in the way of that as it is flat as a pancake (short of the Gulf), and we suffer from chronic flooding now as a result of this constant ever-growing sprawl... it can take 1.5-2hrs (3 if counting rural areas) to get from one end of that sprawl to the other by highway (65mph~75mph)... so that's saying a lot.

Obviously being closer to the southern border, we get a higher intake of illegal immigrations. However, because of the ample space to grow... I feel like a lot of the mixed demographics can move around in a more liberated fashion, not only economically, but logistically in such a way that the cost of living is still relatively cheap, and even flood ins is cheap (thanks FEMA subdizing that policy).

Anyway, so we don't see these divisions play out here as they do in other parts of the US. For example, in CA and in the northeast, some of the most liberal parts of the country, there is a major income gap between lower and upper class... conversely, there's a much bigger chance the leaderships there are Democrat... that's not by coincidence imo. They are happy to take in as many folk into the welfare safety net unchecked... despite the fact this literally destroying those communities and causing not only civil unrest (particularly in Baltimore), but also putting in place gun control laws to try to stimmy that.. absolutely hasn't resolved gun crime.

So this emphasis on Conservatism in general just not wanting illegal immigration at all because of skin color, is false... there needs to be in essence, some form of crowd control. Keeping that in mind, racist folk in particular will always exist, and yes, they too engage in fear-mongering... but that's also coming from the left as well, "white flight", etc, all these racist terms... I think the same racial undertones can be found in a lot of the fear-mongering that is going on in our culture atm...

In Houston, obviously we have the ability to carry and access means to self-protection... which means an underpaid and undermanned police force is not going to present the issues it does in other areas... doesn't mean we don't have crime, but we don't feel we are under siege like other parts of the US, primarily because of the culture of self-protection. Besides, if an area is bad, it's very easy to pick up and to move out in comparison... given that cost of living is not really an issue here. Adding in those geographical benefits and unchecked sprawl, currently, we're not experiencing the issues that are rampant across the rest of the country...

My neighbors are first/second/third generation Americans from Mexico/South America. They have the same exact anxieties we all do about the liberal policies that are destroying our historic cities. In fact, one of my neighbors to my surprise who are first generation voted Trump... and we were still literally on the fence... like no joke, we were rebuilding the fence between our properties while we had this conversation. It was just before the vote, so it was a little bit ironic for us all.

Overall in talking to citizens here and away from the viral internet, I get the sense we all just want common sense policies and to be able to establish ourselves within our communities and live in a culture that makes sense for each of us... anyway, so I don't think that Trump is wrong to point out that some people are feeling under-represented by policies that have prevailed and allowed for a ransacking of their communities... citizens in foreign countries often have a problem with allowing white folk coming in in droves and watering down their culture, interfering with their way of life... so I don't think this is a unique aspect to Trump-ism.

[Scarlett.]

I don't know what dream world people live in these days, but British culture is most certainly not under threat.

[Kizzy]

Yeah I had said something recently to this effect when I went to go reply to something in that order. I didn't post it because it got too long and I wasn't really "ready" to get my shoulder tapped to be pulled into any other surrounding discussions. I think people underestimate the sort of energy level that a person has to have in order to regularly participate in SD discussions that regularly branch off into multiple intense conversations...again, is another reason why I support a strict offtopic rule ... that is really unattractive for the casual user of this site, either because they don't have the energy or the time.. so we really are getting only skewed perspective in SD, we're not really seeing the casual player... we are only see posts from the most emotionally or intellectually invested of folk, usually... and that leads to a lot of conversations to appear to be more straight forward than they likely would be in the real world.

On topic to what you were saying... I grew up in a very old part of the city, and that is where the immigrant community has really moved in. First 18 years of my life I was not really "in touch" with the "white" culture as many so "colorfully" describe often... that's not really a thing where I came from.

Anyway, we used joke often about all our individual differences then and now. It's not stigmatized the way it is in other parts of the country... anyway, we all knocked our ghetto, but loved our community strangely enough. A lot of my peers have either moved out of the area or stubbornly stick to what they know... but it's not like they too didn't suffer from the same adverse effects of immigration. They had their own views.. it wasn't just a "white-ness" thing imo. Many of these people move to these areas for a better life.. and are also unhappy when they see negative conditions or the behaviors of a view usher in a speedy decline.

I think what you say about the speed of it is the gist of it for issues where space is limited. In Europe this is the case, but we also see this in older cities across the US. Houston is very young in comparison, but grew very rapidly and unchecked in recent decades, particularly in terms of sprawl... there is no geography in the way of that as it is flat as a pancake (short of the Gulf), and we suffer from chronic flooding now as a result of this constant ever-growing sprawl... it can take 1.5-2hrs (3 if counting rural areas) to get from one end of that sprawl to the other by highway (65mph~75mph)... so that's saying a lot.

Obviously being closer to the southern border, we get a higher intake of illegal immigrations. However, because of the ample space to grow... I feel like a lot of the mixed demographics can move around in a more liberated fashion, not only economically, but logistically in such a way that the cost of living is still relatively cheap, and even flood ins is cheap (thanks FEMA subdizing that policy).

Anyway, so we don't see these divisions play out here as they do in other parts of the US. For example, in CA and in the northeast, some of the most liberal parts of the country, there is a major income gap between lower and upper class... conversely, there's a much bigger chance the leaderships there are Democrat... that's not by coincidence imo. They are happy to take in as many folk into the welfare safety net unchecked... despite the fact this literally destroying those communities and causing not only civil unrest (particularly in Baltimore), but also putting in place gun control laws to try to stimmy that.. absolutely hasn't resolved gun crime.

So this emphasis on Conservatism in general just not wanting illegal immigration at all because of skin color, is false... there needs to be in essence, some form of crowd control. Keeping that in mind, racist folk in particular will always exist, and yes, they too engage in fear-mongering... but that's also coming from the left as well, "white flight", etc, all these racist terms... I think the same racial undertones can be found in a lot of the fear-mongering that is going on in our culture atm...

In Houston, obviously we have the ability to carry and access means to self-protection... which means an underpaid and undermanned police force is not going to present the issues it does in other areas... doesn't mean we don't have crime, but we don't feel we are under siege like other parts of the US, primarily because of the culture of self-protection. Besides, if an area is bad, it's very easy to pick up and to move out in comparison... given that cost of living is not really an issue here. Adding in those geographical benefits and unchecked sprawl, currently, we're not experiencing the issues that are rampant across the rest of the country...

My neighbors are first/second/third generation Americans from Mexico/South America. They have the same exact anxieties we all do about the liberal policies that are destroying our historic cities. In fact, one of my neighbors to my surprise who are first generation voted Trump... and we were still literally on the fence... like no joke, we were rebuilding the fence between our properties while we had this conversation. It was just before the vote, so it was a little bit ironic for us all.

Overall in talking to citizens here and away from the viral internet, I get the sense we all just want common sense policies and to be able to establish ourselves within our communities and live in a culture that makes sense for each of us... anyway, so I don't think that Trump is wrong to point out that some people are feeling under-represented by policies that have prevailed and allowed for a ransacking of their communities... citizens in foreign countries often have a problem with allowing white folk coming in in droves and watering down their culture, interfering with their way of life... so I don't think this is a unique aspect to Trump-ism.

Oh we got around that.. We just killed them.

[Oliver_W]

Oh we got around that.. We just killed them.

"We"? I've never killed anyone. I guess if we're a collective, I've been on the Moon!

[Cherie]

Kizzy and her family have gone abroad on a killing spree :nono:

[GoldHeart]

What about all the innocent immigrants escaping war zones and serious poverty .
They're NOT all criminals ,I know Trump would like to brainwash people into thinking they are :crazy: .

Its funny how every time he's called out then it's "fake news" , but it's OK for him to talk so much BS :sleep:

[user104658]

Hmmm. Scotland isn't losing its culture... N.Ireland isn't losing its culture... if England is losing it's culture, frankly it's because England never had a particularly strong cultural heritage in the first place.

Or rather, it did, but it was rooted in the British Empire, the end of which had nowt to do with immigration (other than the fact that it left half the world dirt poor and keen to migrate).

Now before the bleating starts; I know that Scotland played a large role in the British Empire. But Scotland also has a strong cultural identity and history aside from that that England just doesn't have. There are some strong regional identities but those aren't really the same thing.

[Oliver_W]

What about all the innocent immigrants escaping war zones and serious poverty .
They're NOT all criminals ,I know Trump would like to brainwash people into thinking they are :crazy: .

Its funny how every time he's called out then it's "fake news" , but it's OK for him to talk so much BS :sleep:

The existence of innocent migrants doesn't magically make us have unlimited space and unlimited resources. At a certain point, it's not Europe's problem.

[GoldHeart]

The existence of innocent migrants doesn't magically make us have unlimited space and unlimited resources. At a certain point, it's not Europe's problem.

I never said that :notimpressed:

[Brillopad]

What about all the innocent immigrants escaping war zones and serious poverty .
They're NOT all criminals ,I know Trump would like to brainwash people into thinking they are :crazy: .

Its funny how every time he's called out then it's "fake news" , but it's OK for him to talk so much BS :sleep:

Our small island is not responsible for people from halfway across the world who have jumped on boats and tried to force their way into our country. We have to think if our own people first. Such a huge influx of people from those countries iimpacts negatively on Britain. Criminals or not they are NOT our responsibility.

[Brillopad]

I never said that :notimpressed:

But you want us to just let them all in anyway. :shrug: Newsflash - others live here too who have a right to disagree.

[Brillopad]

Hmmm. Scotland isn't losing its culture... N.Ireland isn't losing its culture... if England is losing it's culture, frankly it's because England never had a particularly strong cultural heritage in the first place.

Or rather, it did, but it was rooted in the British Empire, the end of which had nowt to do with immigration (other than the fact that it left half the world dirt poor and keen to migrate).

Now before the bleating starts; I know that Scotland played a large role in the British Empire. But Scotland also has a strong cultural identity and history aside from that that England just doesn't have. There are some strong regional identities but those aren't really the same thing.

Haggis, tartan kilts, bag-pipes and lots of rain - sounds like a strong culture you have there. You must tell us all where we are going so wrong. :rolleyes:

[Ammi]

Hmmm. Scotland isn't losing its culture... N.Ireland isn't losing its culture... if England is losing it's culture, frankly it's because England never had a particularly strong cultural heritage in the first place.

Or rather, it did, but it was rooted in the British Empire, the end of which had nowt to do with immigration (other than the fact that it left half the world dirt poor and keen to migrate).

Now before the bleating starts; I know that Scotland played a large role in the British Empire. But Scotland also has a strong cultural identity and history aside from that that England just doesn't have. There are some strong regional identities but those aren't really the same thing.



....hmmmm it is hard to fathom what the British culture is that we’re apparently losing...is it fish and chip suppers on a Friday night..?...but we haven’t lost that, we can still have fish and chips if we want to and if we’re lucky enough to be able to afford it because that culture comes with a very high price tag...is British culture going to the cinema and watching a movie with our families..?...but we haven’t lost that either, we can still do that but again...only if it’s affordable to us...but migrants haven’t been responsible for the high cost of things...is it going going out for a family picnic, is that what the culture that is so British...having a pub lunch on a Sunday....?...I’m just kind of wondering which boxes of ‘ ritish culture’ are not being ticked because of the ‘harm’ of migrants...it’s not an easy one to find the answers for...maybe it’s because the migrants took all of our NHS away...no it can’t be that because the governments through time have caused that to happen by not keeping investment in line with growing population...or maybe that was just impossible to do...?...maybe it’s because the migrants took our benefits..no again, it can’t be that because it’s goverment purse strings that is the main factor there...the pesky governments, not the pesky migrants...anyway I’ll carry on giving thought to what it is the migrants have harmed with the apparent loss of our culture...and when I get that eureka moment...I’ll be on those darn migrants, how very dare they cos I’m not having it, TS..:fist:...(...help me though in finding out where the harm came, TS ...because I’m struggling a bit on my own...)...

[Brillopad]

....hmmmm it is hard to fathom what the British culture is that we’re apparently losing...is it fish and chip suppers on a Friday night..?...but we haven’t lost that, we can still have fish and chips if we want to and if we’re lucky enough to be able to afford it because that culture comes with a very high price tag...is British culture going to the cinema and watching a movie with our families..?...but we haven’t lost that either, we can still do that but again...only if it’s affordable to us...but migrants haven’t been responsible for the high cost of things...is it going going out for a family picnic, is that what the culture that is so British...having a pub lunch on a Sunday....?...I’m just kind of wondering which boxes of ‘ ritish culture’ are not being ticked because of the ‘harm’ of migrants...it’s not an easy one to find the answers for...maybe it’s because the migrants took all of our NHS away...no it can’t be that because the governments through time have caused that to happen by not keeping investment in line with growing population...or maybe that was just impossible to do...?...maybe it’s because the migrants took our benefits..no again, it can’t be that because it’s goverment purse strings that is the main factor there...the pesky governments, not the pesky migrants...anyway I’ll carry on giving thought to what it is the migrants have harmed with the apparent loss of our culture...and when I get that eureka moment...I’ll be on those darn migrants, how very dare they cos I’m not having it, TS..:fist:...(...help me though in finding out where the harm came, TS ...because I’m struggling a bit on my own...)...

Introducing large numbers from misogynistic cultures to The West is detrimental to women in the West no matter what some people say. We have seen many examples of that already with some men and women trying to tell British women what to wear and to cover up.

Some insist that our more forward thinking way of life will rub off on people from these cultures with time rather than the other way round but if the demographics of cultures in this country change significantly that is unlikely to be the case. Religious ideology runs deep and the optimism of some that once people experience more freedoms their views will change is more optimistic than realistic.

Personally I find it quite offensive when those defending mass immigration attack and insult British culture and use it as a reason why we shouldn’t care about things such as culture as ours apparently is so invisible and unimportant we wouldn’t be losing anything of any value anyway - another big fat straw man. Many, many Brits love their culture and way of life and won’t just hand over the reigns to suit the agendas of others.

[GoldHeart]

But you want us to just let them all in anyway. :shrug: Newsflash - others live here too who have a right to disagree.

ERM NO !:nono: :facepalm: that's not what i said either , obviously there needs to be control of it and security and criminal checks and the right system in place . But there's people who think all immigrants are bad people which is WRONG .

And there's some who are harmless who just come over to the UK and they work hard , not all of them are lazy or illegally here with criminal dodgy pasts with the intent to do more damage.

[Cherie]

Personally I don't think it is a loss of culture so much as a loss of diversity and communities, when I moved to the area I live in 20 years ago there as a great mix of people, of all nationalities and creeds, now it is more or less an Asian area, and where my sons went to school they were spot the white on their class photos :laugh: it doesn't bother me as I wasn't born here but I can understand that people who were born and bred in an area like this and have had family homes for generations are gradually they have become a minority in the area of their birth, the other issue is even the second and third generation Indian/Pakastanis speak their own language to each other, not English. My neighbours are all very nice but there is a barrier and a point beyond which I would never be taken into their circle, that is my experience anyway.

[Ammi]

Introducing large numbers from misogynistic cultures to The West is detrimental to women in the West no matter what some people say. We have seen many examples of that already with some men and women trying to tell British women what to wear and to cover up.

Some insist that our more forward thinking way of life will rub off on people from these cultures with time rather than the other way round but if the demographics of cultures in this country change significantly that is unlikely to be the case. Religious ideology runs deep and the optimism of some that once people experience more freedoms their views will change is more optimistic than realistic.

Personally I find it quite offensive when those defending mass immigration attack and insult British culture and use it as a reason why we shouldn’t care about things such as culture as ours apparently is so invisible and unimportant we wouldn’t be losing anything of any value anyway - another big fat straw man. Many, many Brits love their culture and way of life and won’t just hand over the reigns to suit the agendas of others.

...people try to tell me stuff all of the time, Brillo..they can tell all they want really but if something doesn’t feel right to me, if it doesn’t represent me or if it isn’t true to who I am...I just tend to take no notice ...I’ll listen but I won’t necessarily act though, isn’t that the way for most people in this country...because we’re fortunate enough to have choices that not all countries have, sadly...and again, I’m just trying to work out what the British culture is that immigrants are harming, which I’m struggling with...I think ‘caring’ is a huge part of our culture, as it is for many more fortunate countries...and that’s something I definitely don’t want any other culture to take away...I don’t want to say no, don’t come here with your culture...you all have to go back to your own lane and stay there...and then feel heartbroken at the things that happen in ‘that lane’...when we see all of those atrocities on our TV screens...I don’t want to feel that some people didn’t have to go through that or struggle in the lives they have in their country’s opportunities...and I just closed the door on them and said....no, not in my backyard, so long as some awful things don’t happen here, i’m much more comfortable with that.... mixing cultures of good and not so good values...(..rather than isolating off into ‘own lanes’..)...will always create the better world balance of these things for me, Brillo...

[Brillopad]

ERM NO !:nono: :facepalm: that's not what i said either , obviously there needs to be control of it and security and criminal checks and the right system in place . But there's people who think all immigrants are bad people which is WRONG .

And there's some who are harmless who just come over to the UK and they work hard , not all of them are lazy or illegally here with criminal dodgy pasts with the intent to do more damage.

I don’t think anyone said they are all lazy - but our countries duty is to protect its citizens first and foremost. British citizens should be the first priority. People who come in should be vetted and have something to offer to the country.

[Kazanne]

Personally I don't think it is a loss of culture so much as a loss of diversity and communities, when I moved to the area I live in 20 years ago there as a great mix of people, of all nationalities and creeds, now it is more or less an Asian area, and where my sons went to school they were spot the white on their class photos :laugh: it doesn't bother me as I wasn't born here but I can understand that people who were born and bred in an area like this and have had family homes for generations are gradually they have become a minority in the area of their birth, the other issue is even the second and third generation Indian/Pakastanis speak their own language to each other, not English. My neighbours are all very nice but there is a barrier and a point beyond which I would never be taken into their circle, that is my experience anyway.

Indeed Cherie, some of them don't even speak English.

[Northern Monkey]

Immigration is a good thing,Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


Take what we need.Everything in moderation

[Brillopad]

Immigration is a good thing,Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


Take what we need.Everything in moderation

Summed up in one sentence NM. :thumbs:

[Kazanne]

Immigration is a good thing,Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


Take what we need.Everything in moderation

:clap1::clap1:

[Ammi]

...even second/third generations etc...still have family connections in their country of birth...so speaking and understanding their own country language is very important...English is something they will understand and speak as well and probably as a first language as the generations go on...but using their country language within the family etc is also important...it’s keeping who someone is through their ancestry and family connections...

[Brillopad]

...even second/third generations etc...still have family connections in their country of birth...so speaking and understanding their own country language is very important...English is something they will understand and speak as well and probably as a first language as the generations go on...but using their country language within the family etc is also important...it’s keeping who someone is through their ancestry and family connections...

The power of culture - something we all cherish including us boring Brits!

[Cherie]

...even second/third generations etc...still have family connections in their country of birth...so speaking and understanding their own country language is very important...English is something they will understand and speak as well and probably as a first language as the generations go on...but using their country language within the family etc is also important...it’s keeping who someone is through their ancestry and family connections...

No problem with people knowing the language of birth and speaking it to family members who can't speak English or between themselves if no one else is present, I never said that Ammi, but when you are in a staff room with other people of different nationalities, and you were born in Engand and are speaking to a person born in England in a different language that is just down right rude imo, they know it as well because they apologise afterwards, but why do it all all when you are in the company of other people who cannot understand what you are saying, and it happened regularly, and it didn't just happen to me either, I am no longer at the school and am still friends with them but they used to piss me off doing that. What happens now is that all the Asian staff take their break in a classroom and stay away from the staffroom, these are all English born teaching assistants, so where is the integration there, that is not what multiculturalism is about. We had quite a few Spanish staff they never spoke their own language in company. Go to Spain and you will find the Spanish have the same gripe about the English, living in their expat communities and not bothering to learn the language or associate.

[bots]

Just to add some other things in to the mix. Control of immigration doesnt need to be some big nasty thing. It could mean that nearly everyone that wants to come in is allowed, its just a mechanism to make sure that everything still runs smoothly.

From a political stand point .... it's also perfectly feasible for 1 government to open the flood gates as it were and another to close them. The point being that in the EU as it stands, we as a sovereign nation are not allowed that level of control, whether we need it or not. That is the fundamental issue.


With regard to integration. Where I grew up in Scotland, we have had loads of immigrants from poland, pakistan and china. While they have still managed to retain some of their cultural identity, my experience is that the majority are now proud to be scottish too. In England, that has not been my experience so much. So what has caused that. Is it an unwillingness to integrate or less than welcoming country willing to accept immigrants. My feeling is that it's a bit of both

[Brillopad]

Just to add some other things in to the mix. Control of immigration doesnt need to be some big nasty thing. It could mean that nearly everyone that wants to come in is allowed, its just a mechanism to make sure that everything still runs smoothly.

From a political stand point .... it's also perfectly feasible for 1 government to open the flood gates as it were and another to close them. The point being that in the EU as it stands, we as a sovereign nation are not allowed that level of control, whether we need it or not. That is the fundamental issue.


With regard to integration. Where I grew up in Scotland, we have had loads of immigrants from poland, pakistan and china. While they have still managed to retain some of their cultural identity, my experience is that the majority are now proud to be scottish too. In England, that has not been my experience so much. So what has caused that. Is it an unwillingness to integrate or less than welcoming country willing to accept immigrants. My feeling is that it's a bit of both

Maybe that’s because England is more over-crowded than Scotland - just a thought!

[armand.kay]

Isn't immigration from outside of the EU controlled anyway?

[Cherie]

Isn't immigration from outside of the EU controlled anyway?

It is but more often than not English born men will return to India or wherever and bring back a bride! or the girls will be married off and on they come as well. We had a family at the school the boy was profound special needs and no way should he have been married as his mental age was about 8 or 9 but he is now married to a lady who works as an escort on the special needs bus, and his wife is here legally

[Livia]

Immigration is a good thing,Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


Take what we need.Everything in moderation

There's not much more to say. Out culture is being slowly erased. And if you don't believe that, it hasn't impacted on you yet. But it will.

[Tom4784]

You can't erase culture. It's complete hysteria to think it can be or that it is.

It seems to literally come down to 'There are more brown faces around and I feel threatened by that.'

[Smithy]

You can't erase culture. It's complete hysteria to think it can be or that it is.

It seems to literally come down to 'There are more brown faces around and I feel threatened by that.'
Pretty much!

[Cherie]

You can't erase culture. It's complete hysteria to think it can be or that it is.

It seems to literally come down to 'There are more brown faces around and I feel threatened by that.'

Pretty much!

Lol that must be it naturally, are you including David Dickenson in this summary

[bots]

You can't erase culture. It's complete hysteria to think it can be or that it is.

It seems to literally come down to 'There are more brown faces around and I feel threatened by that.'

Homophobia is cultural, and its being erased, so have to disagree with that. A culture can easily be erased with the right conditions

[Tom4784]

Homophobia is cultural, and its being erased, so have to disagree with that. A culture can easily be erased with the right conditions

I disagree, homophobia is an attitude, it's not ingrained into our national identity. Our history? certainly but not out culture. To erase a culture you basically have to wipe out the people that embody that culture like what the settlers did to the native americans and extremism will never become such a majority in which that could come to pass.

Britain's identity has not really changed much at all despite the regular fear mongering 'MUSLIMS ARE TRYING TO KILL CHRISTMAS!/PORKPIES!/TRYING TO FORCE SHARIAH LAW!' articles.

[bots]

I disagree, homophobia is an attitude, it's not ingrained into our national identity. Our history? certainly but not out culture. To erase a culture you basically have to wipe out the people that embody that culture like what the settlers did to the native americans and extremism will never become such a majority in which that could come to pass.

Britain's identity has not really changed much at all despite the regular fear mongering 'MUSLIMS ARE TRYING TO KILL CHRISTMAS!/PORKPIES!/TRYING TO FORCE SHARIAH LAW!' articles.

cultural changes are usually gradual things that disappear over time. One could argue that the have a natural evolution. The UK doesn't have the same culture since the days it was first inhabited. It evolves over time, Those cultural changes will be more pronounced when there is a greater external influence. Many changes could well be for the better, and I have no problem with that. It's the speed of change that is important to regulate, to ensure that everything remains compatible.

[Cherie]

Fear of brown people is such a lazy argument, multiculturalism is meant to be that...multi as in many...

[Brillopad]

Fear of brown people is such a lazy argument, multiculturalism is meant to be that...multi as in many...

Oh just what I was thinking Cherie. Same tired old lazy argument that is regressive - NOT progreesive as some like to claim! It sets politics back decades.

[Vicky.]

Immigration is a good thing,Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


Take what we need.Everything in moderation

My thoughts, tbh

[GoldHeart]

I don’t think anyone said they are all lazy - but our countries duty is to protect its citizens first and foremost. British citizens should be the first priority. People who come in should be vetted and have something to offer to the country.

There's this negative stigma attached with being an immigrant, people think they're wanting to scam the UK system and rinse it for everything :notimpressed: .

If anything the bad ones always slip through the net ,and the hardworking decent ones get penalised and treated like a criminal.

Just look at the wind rush scandal ,absolutely disgusting & inhumane :nono: .

[Maru]

Immigration is a good thing,Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.


Take what we need.Everything in moderation

Yeah it really doesn't need to be more complicad than that, NM