Should these types of benches be BANNED?

[Matthew.]

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2018/02/01/12/download-18.jpg

Considering they are intended to stop homeless people from sleeping on them, do you think these should be banned?

vote in the poll

[Cal.]

Yes it’s disgusting

[Matthew.]

Yes it’s disgusting

i agree

[MTVN]

It's nice to have armrests

[bots]

it partitions the bench up so that no-one can hog it which seems sensible to me

[Saph]

idk it doesn't affect me so i'm not overly bothered but I can see why people would want them banned

[Crimson Dynamo]

Parks are for families to enjoy and they do not want to see a tramp sleeping or drinking/taking drugs

great idea

[Nicky91]

yes, i once saw a bench similar to this and i sat on the armrest in the middle, i had lots of pain from that and i cried because of the pain :sad:


http://www.blokhutspecialist.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sophia-lugarde-prieel.jpg

this is the sort of comfortable bench, seats what we have in our garden, something similar to this :flutter:

[Ashley.]

You're not supposed to sit on the armrest Nicky

[Crimson Dynamo]

yes, i once saw a bench similar to this and i sat on the armrest in the middle, i had lots of pain from that and i cried because of the pain :sad:


http://www.blokhutspecialist.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sophia-lugarde-prieel.jpg

this is the sort of comfortable bench, seats what we have in our garden, something similar to this :flutter:

would you be ok if some tramps came and sat on them and drank beer?

[Nicky91]

would you be ok if some tramps came and sat on them and drank beer?

:nono: of course not, it's way too classy for that

[Matthew.]

they’re not for your bloody garden

[Nicky91]

they’re not for your bloody garden

D: what then for

[Matthew.]

D: what then for

the park, did you look at the photo?

[Nicky91]

you, a 26 year old man, want homeless people to be unable to sleep on a park bench because you once sat on an armrest by mistake and cried because you hurt your arse. i’ve really heard it all now

no i want homeless people to sleep on a more comfortable bench in the park then and not with these armrests in the middle which might also be uncomfortable for the homeless

[Matthew.]

no i want homeless people to sleep on a more comfortable bench in the park then and not with these armrests in the middle which might also be uncomfortable for the homeless

sorry, i misunderstood what you said

[Crimson Dynamo]

no i want homeless people to sleep on a more comfortable bench in the park then and not with these armrests in the middle which might also be uncomfortable for the homeless

and ruin the park for mothers and babies?

wow, how mean

[Wizard.]

It’s just another thing in society that is trying to push homeless people out of sight so that people don’t have to “deal” with seeing it or recognise the real issue. These benches, spikes in doorways. Where do we want these people to go? It’s not going to make them go and live in a house. If the source of the problem isn’t being sorted out at least let the homeless be near people that can offer them food / money to survive.

[Cherie]

yes, i once saw a bench similar to this and i sat on the armrest in the middle, i had lots of pain from that and i cried because of the pain :sad:


http://www.blokhutspecialist.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/650x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sophia-lugarde-prieel.jpg

this is the sort of comfortable bench, seats what we have in our garden, something similar to this :flutter:

:joker: I know I shouldn't laugh

[Matthew.]

and ruin the park for mothers and babies?

wow, how mean

and give homeless people absolutely nowhere to sleep?

wow how mean

[Crimson Dynamo]

It’s just another thing in society that is trying to push homeless people out of sight so that people don’t have to “deal” with seeing it or recognise the real issue. These benches, spikes in doorways. Where do we want these people to go? It’s not going to make them go and live in a house. If the source of the problem isn’t being sorted out at least let the homeless be near people that can offer them food / money to survive.

Do you understand what parks are for?

[Nicky91]

and ruin the park for mothers and babies?

wow, how mean

:nono: homeless and the poor come first i think

[arista]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294081

A 2015 solution to the mess we are in Matthew

[Crimson Dynamo]

:nono: homeless and the poor come first i think

No they do not - a park is a space for all and the benches are for sitting not boozing or sleeping

http://howtosurviveaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/park_bench_drunk.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/14/article-2691447-1FA11FE700000578-6_634x336.jpg

[Matthew.]

i don’t know if anyone here has ever been homeless, but to those that are voting NO on the poll, if you were a homeless person, where would you go to sleep?

[Wizard.]

No they do not - a park is a space for all and the benches are for sitting not boozing or sleeping

http://howtosurviveaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/park_bench_drunk.jpg

“A space for all” except homeless people? And you shouldn’t stereotype them all to be alcoholics and drug abusers.

[Nicky91]

No they do not - a park is a space for all and the benches are for sitting not boozing or sleeping

http://howtosurviveaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/park_bench_drunk.jpg

i'm sure i've seen many homeless sleeping on a bench, and also drinking lots of booze as well

:idc:

[Crimson Dynamo]

i don’t know if anyone here has ever been homeless, but to those that are voting NO on the poll, if you were a homeless person, where would you go to sleep?

There are plenty homeless shelter and charities that will help, no need to stink up public spaces and make women feel threatened

[Wizard.]

There are plenty homeless shelter and charities that will help, no need to stink up public spaces and make women feel threatened

How are women threatened? I think that’s quite sexist to say that. My brother is currently homesless, and yes he was put into a hostel but a man who lived in the hostel threatened to kill him for accidentally using his milk so he was too scared to stay there and now lives on the streets. Why do you think things are so black and white?

[Crimson Dynamo]

How are women threatened? I think that’s quite sexist to say that. My brother is currently homesless, and yes he was put into a hostel but a man who lived in the hostel threatened to kill him for accidentally using his milk so he was too scared to stay there and now lives on the streets. Why do you think things are so black and white?

And why do you think that a park should be violated by a few people. Its a park for people to enjoy and not to sleep in.

Its not hard to understand.

[Wizard.]

And why do you think that a park should be violated by a few people. Its a park for people to enjoy and not to sleep in.

Its not hard to understand.

I have never been to a park and seen loads of homeless people sleeping there, using drugs and intimidating people. How is it harmful for people to sleep there overnight? If a non-homeless person goes to a park and feels threatened by homeless people they shouldn’t be in a park at that time.

[Wizard.]

And actually I see young people destroy parks and intimidate people a lot more than I have ever seen homeless people do.

[Nicky91]

And actually I see young people destroy parks and intimidate people a lot more than I have ever seen homeless people do.

true, but sometimes with graffiti they also create nice art in parks :love:

[Vicky.]

I don't have as much of an issue with these benches as I do with those horrific spikes that they put under sheltered areas.

[Crimson Dynamo]

A Bournemouth council spokesman said: “As a council, we need to maintain a careful balance between our responsibility to the wider public to ensure that amenities are available to them, and our duty of care to vulnerable members of our community, including people rough sleeping.

“Changes were made to a small number of benches in very specific locations in the town centre several months ago, and only following numerous complaints by members of the public and local traders. The complaints related to a number of the benches being unavailable to members of the public throughout the day due to people lying on them during the daytime.”

The council added it provided a “wide range of services for homeless people”, including 150 hostel beds and a “rough sleeper assertive outreach team”.

:clap1: Well done Bournemouth council

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bournemouth-council-installs-metal-bars-benches-homeless-rough-sleepers-inhumane-crisis-stuart-a8186121.html

[bots]

these are public benches, not homeless benches. The fact that some homeless people try and sleep on them, doesn't mean that is what they are there for. Also there are many more homeless than single occupancy park benches, so its pointless anyway.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bcc122c05fcf96e2bbeb3ec3d3837e80-c
http://littleatoms.com/sites/default/files/spikes-big.jpg

[Vicky.]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bcc122c05fcf96e2bbeb3ec3d3837e80-c
http://littleatoms.com/sites/default/files/spikes-big.jpg
Yes those. ****ing disgusting tbh.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes those. ****ing disgusting tbh.

Id like to get some installed in the chat thread

[Maru]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bcc122c05fcf96e2bbeb3ec3d3837e80-c
http://littleatoms.com/sites/default/files/spikes-big.jpg

Someone is a fan of platformers

[smudgie]

No.
Those armrests make it easier for old or infirm people to get up.
Most parks I know of get locked up at night, so the homeless wouldn't have access to them.
I absolutely hate all those spikes:fist:

[Cherie]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/15/former-rough-sleeper-ed-sheeran-wins-permission-anti-homeless/


Pop superstar Ed Sheeran, who spent nights sleeping rough on the streets of London early in his career, has won planning permission to install “anti-homeless” railings outside his £8m London home.

The 27-year old singer is now authorised to install pedestrian gates and cast iron railings outside his converted Victorian brickworks in Kensington and Chelsea, which will "prevent opportunities for rough sleeping" according to his planning agent.

good ol Ed :umm2:

[Northern Monkey]

No,Just because homeless people exist doesn’t mean things should be banned.

I’ve never actually seen a bench like that tbh.Must be in those posh Shires.

[Northern Monkey]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bcc122c05fcf96e2bbeb3ec3d3837e80-c
http://littleatoms.com/sites/default/files/spikes-big.jpg

They look dangerous.I’d think they’ll go after a few people trip and make injury claims.

[Matthew.]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/15/former-rough-sleeper-ed-sheeran-wins-permission-anti-homeless/


Pop superstar Ed Sheeran, who spent nights sleeping rough on the streets of London early in his career, has won planning permission to install “anti-homeless” railings outside his £8m London home.

The 27-year old singer is now authorised to install pedestrian gates and cast iron railings outside his converted Victorian brickworks in Kensington and Chelsea, which will "prevent opportunities for rough sleeping" according to his planning agent.

good ol Ed :umm2:

that’s actually what gave me the idea to make this thread

[Mokka]

Yes... those benches make it to uncomfortable to have a make out sesh... or a cuddle with your lover... and we all know benches are for lovers

[Oliver_W]

I like to rest my arm on them, so nah

[Beso]

Surely grass is more comfy than a bench in the summer...take them off for the winter cause no sane person sits on a cold bench.

[Oliver_W]

Who was the former BB housemate who did a sponsored "homelessathon" for a week?

[Matthew.]

Surely grass is more comfy than a bench in the summer...take them off for the winter cause no sane person sits on a cold bench.

or just take them off... and keep them off.

[Beso]

Ashaleeeeen.

[Matthew.]

I like to rest my arm on them, so nah

but there will still be armrests most of the time. one on the far left hand side of the bench, and another at the far right hand side of the bench

[Oliver_W]

but there will still be armrests most of the time. one on the far left hand side of the bench, and another at the far right hand side of the bench
I don't want to hog the whole bench tho

[Crimson Dynamo]

In the old days we had actual park keepers who would chase of homeless and keep the park good for families and old people

[Matthew.]

I don't want to hog the whole bench tho

how often do you sit on park benches

[Crimson Dynamo]

how often do you sit on park benches

https://media.tenor.com/images/c74fee932c016b0d433aef3479c50e55/tenor.gif

[user104658]

In the old days we had actual park keepers who would chase of homeless and keep the park good for families and old people

And now they have to chase off the old people for the good of the homeless. It's weird how these things go in cycles...

[Crimson Dynamo]

And now they have to chase off the old people for the good of the homeless. It's weird how these things go in cycles...

no we design benches for people to sit on and not for folk to sleep on making parks intimidating

[Brillopad]

It’s just another thing in society that is trying to push homeless people out of sight so that people don’t have to “deal” with seeing it or recognise the real issue. These benches, spikes in doorways. Where do we want these people to go? It’s not going to make them go and live in a house. If the source of the problem isn’t being sorted out at least let the homeless be near people that can offer them food / money to survive.

HOw about in your house or the shed in the garden. Not so keen on that no doubt.

[Tom4784]

'You can't talk about society dehumanising the homeless unless you're willing to let a stranger live with you!'

[LukeB]

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2018/02/01/12/download-18.jpg

Considering they are intended to stop homeless people from sleeping on them, do you think these should be banned?

vote in the poll

I'm not actually sure,benches are made for people to sit down not for the homeless to sleep, it's useful for the elderly and people who suffer from a disability.

[ethanjames]

yes they need to be taken the majority of people don't need armrests all over the bench yet homeless people need a place to sleep. im sure there are expectations but the majority don't need those sort of benches

[Mokka]

'You can't talk about society dehumanising the homeless unless you're willing to let a stranger live with you!'

Yeah, you can.
I have had a stranger live with me ... a street kid who had lost their way... but if I hadn't I still would he allowed to have a conversation about homelessness. It's what democratic societies have social servives set up for. Just because my govt failed in the duties my taxes pay for... doesn't mean I should be doing their job for them by letting people sleep in my house.

[Crimson Dynamo]

tea

[Marsh.]

Surely grass is more comfy than a bench in the summer...take them off for the winter cause no sane person sits on a cold bench.

Yeah the homeless are very fussy about that.

[Glenn.]

No they shouldn’t be banned. I like a bench with an armrest

[Marsh.]

HOw about in your house or the shed in the garden. Not so keen on that no doubt.

Strawman argument.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Can anyone tell me is there any need to be homeless in the UK at the mo in terms of hostels and charities and council?

[Matthew.]

Can anyone tell me is there any need to be homeless in the UK at the mo in terms of hostels and charities and council?

no offence but you sound like you’re saying it’s a choice

[Crimson Dynamo]

no offence but you sound like you’re saying it’s a choice

can you answer the question?

[Matthew.]

can you answer the question?

nobody chooses to be homeless,

[Marsh.]

no we design benches for people to sit on and not for folk to sleep on making parks intimidating

Not sure anyone could begrudge a homeless person sleeping on a bench at a time they're curled up in their own bed in a warm house.

[Mokka]

no offence but you sound like you’re saying it’s a choice

Again, I have worked with various levels of people in poverty and on the streets.... and I have met many who did choose it. They don't fit into societal norms in their own right... and would refuse a roof over their heads over the night sky. But by that token... why do we refuse them a bench to sleep on at night? Why not live and let live. Not everyone fits into the mold we say they should.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not sure anyone could begrudge a homeless person sleeping on a bench at a time they're curled up in their own bed in a warm house.

but its not that is it

its drunks and druggies

dont peddle the innocent homeless myth

there are charities and council help for genuine homeless but there are those who shun that

i want to protect those who use parks for children and old people

i hope you do too

[Marsh.]

but its not that is it

its drunks and druggies

dont peddle the innocent homeless myth

there are charities and council help for genuine homeless but there are those who shun that

i want to protect those who use parks for children and old people

i hope you do too

Homelessness leading to addiction or addiction leading to homelessness isn't genuine?

Don't peddle that sh*t!

[Mokka]

Homelessness leading to addiction or addiction leading to homelessness isn't genuine?

Don't peddle that sh*t!

:joker::joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Homelessness leading to addiction or addiction leading to homelessness isn't genuine?

Don't peddle that sh*t!

you can only help those who want to help themselves

its not big brother

unless you want to take people against their will?

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker::joker:

its hardly a laughing matter to score likes

:skull:

[Marsh.]

you can only help those who want to help themselves

its not big brother

unless you want to take people against their will?

I haven't suggested you go and force counselling on a random drug addict LT.

Trying to take every last little right away from people who already have nothing is unnecessarily vindictive.

And for what? So Beatrice can take the twins to the park without the real world and its problems spoiling the terribly chipper and perfectly middle class view she's inflicting upon them that doesn't and will never exist?

[MTVN]

Of course homelessness is an issue but ultimately these benches have not been erected to give homeless people a marginally more comfortable resting place. How would you feel about it if you ran a small business nearby like an ice cream stand or a cafe? The image and ambience of any place is important to it's prosperity, if people feel uneasy or unsafe visiting parks or towns then they won't bother and that place goes into decline so it's kinda understandable why councils and local authorities take measures like this. Of course in the same way that's why they should also do what they can to help the homeless out of their situation

[Mokka]

Of course homelessness is an issue but ultimately these benches have not been erected to give homeless people a marginally more comfortable resting place. How would you feel about it if you ran a small business nearby like an ice cream stand or a cafe? The image and ambience of any place is important to it's prosperity, if people feel uneasy or unsafe visiting parks or towns then they won't bother and that place goes into decline so it's kinda understandable why councils and local authorities take measures like this. Of course in the same way that's why they should also do what they can to help the homeless out of their situation

I would do what my favourite cafe does in a popular part of my cities core where business people and homeless alike frequent. I'd build a free food box with my left overs .. and probably off coffee and water to the people in need... build up a relationship... and let them know that during business hours I need the bench for customers but at night they are welcome to it.

It's called shared community

[LaLaLand]

Yes.

[Northern Monkey]

The problem i see with taking away the ‘armrests’ is time.


Homeless people don’t usually have alarm clocks.

What time do homeless people get up?

What time to old people sit on benches?

The homeless need to vacate the bench before the old people get to the park.

Also the smell of piss could be an issue.

The poor homeless man(they’re nearly all men) lays his head down for a good nights shuteye only to find the smell of secondhand Earl Grey on his cheek.

It’s a logistical nightmare tbh.

[michael21]

No they do not - a park is a space for all and the benches are for sitting not boozing or sleeping

http://howtosurviveaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/park_bench_drunk.jpg

But he only works on 25 Dec each year :hehe:

[Mokka]

The problem i see with taking away the ‘armrests’ is time.


Homeless people don’t usually have alarm clocks.

What time do homeless people get up?

What time to old people sit on benches?

The homeless need to vacate the bench before the old people get to the park.

Also the smell of piss could be an issue.

The poor homeless man(they’re nearly all men) lays his head down for a good nights shuteye only to find the smell of secondhand Earl Grey on his cheek.

It’s a logistical nightmare tbh.

Homeless wake up with dawn's early light... as do the elderly. Just set the local park sprinklers to go off about then... and by the time the old people get there the homeless have cleared off and the smell of "tea" will be washed away lol

[kirklancaster]

It's nice to have armrests

:laugh2:

[user104658]

Ugh both sides of this argument are awful if you think about it...



"They're good because they stop smelly homeless people sleeping there."

"Hey! NO don't do that - some people need to sleep on these park benches."



What a ****ed up world we live in where either of these statements need to be considered.

[Twosugars]

Ugh both sides of this argument are awful if you think about it...



"They're good because they stop smelly homeless people sleeping there."

"Hey! NO don't do that - some people need to sleep on these park benches."



What a ****ed up world we live in where either of these statements need to be considered.

Indeed TS. A ****ed up world, callous times.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ugh both sides of this argument are awful if you think about it...



"They're good because they stop smelly homeless people sleeping there."

"Hey! NO don't do that - some people need to sleep on these park benches."



What a ****ed up world we live in where either of these statements need to be considered.


yes isnt reality a bitch

and it gets you no +1's either

[Beso]

I haven't suggested you go and force counselling on a random drug addict LT.

Trying to take every last little right away from people who already have nothing is unnecessarily vindictive.

And for what? So Beatrice can take the twins to the park without the real world and its problems spoiling the terribly chipper and perfectly middle class view she's inflicting upon them that doesn't and will never exist?



Beartrice and her kids might just be one of those kind souls who stop and chat to the homeless, leaving them with something nice to eat...that is something you will just never know.

[Barry.]

I haven't seen these benches but I do like arms so it's comfy.

[GoldHeart]

Ugh both sides of this argument are awful if you think about it...



"They're good because they stop smelly homeless people sleeping there."

"Hey! NO don't do that - some people need to sleep on these park benches."



What a ****ed up world we live in where either of these statements need to be considered.

And even if the homeless person doesn't sleep on the bench they'll still sit/ slouch on it all day probably :shrug: .

I haven't really thought about park benches with arm rests or how it is or isn't an issue :joker:

[jaxie]

The money spent changing the benches would be better spent trying to help the homeless get off the street and into accommodation.

[Cal.]

I would do what my favourite cafe does in a popular part of my cities core where business people and homeless alike frequent. I'd build a free food box with my left overs .. and probably off coffee and water to the people in need... build up a relationship... and let them know that during business hours I need the bench for customers but at night they are welcome to it.

It's called shared community

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

The money spent changing the benches would be better spent trying to help the homeless get off the street and into accommodation.

and any council will tell you they are already do that

but they also have a duty to citizens and local business and that is what they are doing

[bots]

Provide sufficient facilities for the homeless, and re-claim our parks and public spaces. It's not beyond the wit of man

[Livia]

I can't imagine people going out of their way to make a homeless person's already cold and uncomfortable life, even worse.

Homelessness shames our nation.

[Black Dagger]

You're all heart LT. I can see what Mrs LT sees in you.

[Ant.]

You're not supposed to sit on the armrest Nicky

:joker:

[Matthew.]

You're all heart LT. I can see what Mrs LT sees in you.

:joker: I know I shouldn't laugh

.

[Marsh.]

Beartrice and her kids might just be one of those kind souls who stop and chat to the homeless, leaving them with something nice to eat...that is something you will just never know.

A lovely woman.

[Marsh.]

Of course homelessness is an issue but ultimately these benches have not been erected to give homeless people a marginally more comfortable resting place. How would you feel about it if you ran a small business nearby like an ice cream stand or a cafe? The image and ambience of any place is important to it's prosperity, if people feel uneasy or unsafe visiting parks or towns then they won't bother and that place goes into decline so it's kinda understandable why councils and local authorities take measures like this. Of course in the same way that's why they should also do what they can to help the homeless out of their situation

Well, tbh, if there was help so that these homeless people actually had alternatives to park benches it would be great.

However, many of these places close down, or in some areas simply don't exist.

I find that a tad more sad and important than the "ambience' for an ice cream truck.

[Beso]

A lovely woman.

Yes, most people are.

[Vicky.]

HOw about in your house or the shed in the garden. Not so keen on that no doubt.

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here :laugh:

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no :bored:

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' :fist: kind of attitude.

[Marsh.]

Yes, most people are.

Unless they fall on hard times. Then they should be kicked whilst they're down.

[Marsh.]

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here :laugh:

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no :bored:

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' :fist: kind of attitude.

Yeah, allowing people to sleep on public property suddenly becoming well you wouldn't let them sleep in your house is a straw man argument that holds no logic.

[Vicky.]

and any council will tell you they are already do that

but they also have a duty to citizens and local business and that is what they are doing

You have got to be joking, councils have no bloody properties! :laugh: I know people who have been on the waiting lists for literally years. If you have kids and are going to be made homeless you are made a priority however, being made a priority these days tends to mean being put in a hostel or a B+B, which obviously the council cannot pay for this for everyone. So a single female/male (which homeless people usually are) have absolutely no chance of getting a council properties. In any of the surrounding areas to me anyway and I am in the North East, I expect its even worse down South.

[Vicky.]

Yeah, allowing people to sleep on public property suddenly becoming well you wouldn't let them sleep in your house is a straw man argument that holds no logic.

Quite. I wonder if people would say 'oh so you agree with poor people getting benefits? Give them your whole wage each month or you are talking crap!' or something. 'Agree with foodbanks existing? You must donate your entire months shopping to one!' 'Don't want a power plant near a school? AGREE TO HAVE IT BUILT IN YOUR BACKYARD!!!' :umm2: Seems to be only with homeless people that this argument applies, from what I have seen anyway.

[Maru]

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here :laugh:

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no :bored:

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' :fist: kind of attitude.

Yeah, I would love to open my doors to someone like that. I've known family members to do the same and there are people who only just need short-term help and an address. It's hard for me to talk to anyone and not feel some sort of empathy. If I were single, I could maybe see myself taking someone in, but even then... it's not like that person is taking in a dog and giving it feed and water. It's a living breathing human-being, with issues, with likely needs, etc... and "low maintenance" isn't exactly part of human nature, but particularly not part of our culture... so when we take someone in, it may be someone who is all take take take... but even if not, it's still a person who has their own history and their own "baggage", and so it's not a simple thing like here's some food and shelter... we're in a sense rehabilitating a person from the ground up, and if that person doing the giving is an empathic person by nature, then it's very difficult to take that on without taking it all on so to speak without having good advice with dealing with that sort of living situation... that's why I give to the churches nearby that help to shelter them, they have a network of people who help also with counseling to help with drug assistance if there's an addiction issue... things that a typical homeowner wouldn't have the resources, connections, etc to be able to achieve... but yeah, having an address is the first step... we have a lot of properties here with secondary buildings (101a, 101b, etc), and sometimes people will "rent" or "lend" those out to someone in need... that I think is ideal if those peopel can manage separate separate spaces somehow, but that situation is not for everyone as you said...

The other part of that is if we take someone in randomly, we have no idea what "stage" they're in... if they're even prepared to get situated, so to speak.

Anyway, I just see it as a balancing act... we can't be too accomodating, because then we enable the issue. On the other hand, we can't also neglect the rest of the population to care for people who legitimately have no desire to get off the streets (and that is a problem in itself).

I had a great uncle that passed away many years ago, from assault (disagreement at a bar). Anyway, he was transient and my grandmother took him in... but no matter how much we tried to ground him, he would go back to his old ways. There were kids in the home, so it could only go on for so long before he had to move on, but we all felt bad we couldn't take him in permanently... even though it wasn't on any of his siblings what happened, we had other family members that couldn't be grounded. That was just their way... a lot of my family members are stubborn like this, and it makes both people very miserable to try to reason and shove their view of life onto the other...

Society as-it-is may work for most people, but it doesn't work for all, for any variety of reasons... but this is still the best civilization has ever had it. So makes no sense to inconvenience every one else for just a few... but I'm alright with individual establishments opening their doors to folk as Mokka mentioned, giving out free food.. they do a lot of that here. There are restaurants in this area where the food bank will go by and pick up left-overs... so it's not like there are not places for these folk to go. There is definitely a need.

I do not agree with a broad stroke approach with govt, bannings, particularly welfare expansion etc, because it influences the market(s) adversely and makes poverty cyclical. I think giving works better and individual needs are better met when the charity is on a one-on-one basis, either an individual, a business or an organization reaching out directly. It's more personable and there is more "giving" in the psychological/emotional sense as well, not just the financial giving tailored to whatever numbers the beaurocratic magicians come up with to "resolve" the problem.. it also doesn't account for "failure", i.e., when money just goes into someone who either isn't genuinely needed or is not the best use for it (like someone who is trading food for cash, etc).. When we pass laws on the other hand to encourage the problem, we're not really doing anything about it... we're more or less just giving society a nice permission slip to ignore the issue and just let the politicians handle it. I don't agree with that either... so balance is necessary in both these areas I think.

Anyway, as the question was phrased... I voted against a "ban", because banning anti-homeless benches won't end homelessness... it's just another emotional barrier imo.

[RileyH]

yes, i once saw a bench similar to this and i sat on the armrest in the middle, i had lots of pain from that and i cried because of the pain :sad:

Im ****ing screaming :joker::joker::joker:

[Vicky.]

we have a lot of properties here with secondary buildings (101a, 101b, etc), and sometimes people will "rent" or "lend" those out to someone in need... that I think is ideal if those peopel can manage separate separate spaces somehow, but that situation is not for everyone as you said...

Interesting, do you not have the landlords who all charge damage deposits, month rent in advance and that? Seems all our private landlords do that (I understand why, don't get me wrong) so it would be pretty impossible for someone who is on the streets to even get a property without a job as they just would not have a spare 1k+ lying around, else they wouldn't be on the streets to start with really :laugh: Kind of ****ed up chicken and egg scenario. Need a home to get a job, but need a job to get a home.



The other part of that is if we take someone in randomly, we have no idea what "stage" they're in... if they're even prepared to get situated, so to speak.


Yeah this is definitely an issue too. I could have had him refuse to leave, rob my house, cause a lot of trouble, even maybe attack me tbh. But as a 17 year old in her first house on her own I didn't really think too much about it. I had a spare room, seemed to get on fairly well with him, and it genuinely did seem like he was just down on his luck rather than had caused it for himself (something I believe is true of most homeless people, I think only a few are there through their own actions tbh) and I am generally really good at spotting liars and that.



Society as-it-is may work for most people, but it doesn't work for all, for any variety of reasons... but this is still the best civilization has ever had it. So makes no sense to inconvenience every one else for just a few... but I'm alright with individual establishments opening their doors to folk as Mokka mentioned, giving out free food.. they do a lot of that here. There are restaurants in this area where the food bank will go by and pick up left-overs... so it's not like there are not places for these folk to go. There is definitely a need.


You know, I worked in a fair few food places. I have worked in Burger King, Peters Bakery, a sandwich place, a cafe and a chip shop. Every one of these places point blank refused to do anything except throw their leftovers from the day in the bin. Peters was the worst, I questioned why on earth such a rich chain (well, seems they weren't as rich as they seemed as they got taken over by someone else a few years later, I guess :laugh: ) did this when there were homeless people/poor people who needed fed...it just seems so wasteful. Anyway, turns out apparently Peters head office or whatever actually send random inspectors out to check the BINS to make sure that all the stock left at the end of the day is actually thrown out. In addition to this, the bins were locked well away from everyone, and padlocked and such :umm2: I got quite irate at the manager about this actually, (I am not sure that this is actually a real thing, about the inspectors or if he just made up crap on the spot to shut me up...either way, they do write down whats left at the end of the night on a checklist thing, then throw it in the bin though) it possibly contributed to me being sacked for being 'not a good fit and 'causing trouble' :joker:

[Maru]

Interesting, do you not have the landlords who all charge damage deposits, month rent in advance and that? Seems all our private landlords do that (I understand why, don't get me wrong) so it would be pretty impossible for someone who is on the streets to even get a property without a job as they just would not have a spare 1k+ lying around, else they wouldn't be on the streets to start with really :laugh: Kind of ****ed up chicken and egg scenario. Need a home to get a job, but need a job to get a home.

Not necessarily if it's a homeowner with a dettached extension that doesn't have plumbing or a kitchen, etc, and is just an extension of the the main property (common enough), then it's maybe not a large enough expense to them to just let someone live there for a bit. There's usually a separate light bill, but if it's just one person and they are not a huge resource drain, then it may be worth letting them stay a few months to get themselves situated. I guess it is called a shed there? When it's been insulated, drywalled and had electric connected, we usually call it an extension?

Yeah this is definitely an issue too. I could have had him refuse to leave, rob my house, cause a lot of trouble, even maybe attack me tbh. But as a 17 year old in her first house on her own I didn't really think too much about it. I had a spare room, seemed to get on fairly well with him, and it genuinely did seem like he was just down on his luck rather than had caused it for himself (something I believe is true of most homeless people, I think only a few are there through their own actions tbh) and I am generally really good at spotting liars and that.

So in a way, your naivety paid off because you received a positive experience from it. I think if our culture was different, it would easier I think to provide that kind of charity. I feel like part of the reason is, 1) there is a reinforcement of this behavior to some degree societally (not in a positive way), but there's also 2) the general paranoia we all have for each other... is really quite high actually. and 3) There is a lot of reinforcement of that paranoia in the local media here... never leave your doors unlocked, never do this, never do that... warnings of scams, etc. Everyone is out to get us, etc...

You know, I worked in a fair few food places. I have worked in Burger King, Peters Bakery, a sandwich place, a cafe and a chip shop. Every one of these places point blank refused to do anything except throw their leftovers from the day in the bin. Peters was the worst, I questioned why on earth such a rich chain (well, seems they weren't as rich as they seemed as they got taken over by someone else a few years later, I guess :laugh: ) did this when there were homeless people/poor people who needed fed...it just seems so wasteful. Anyway, turns out apparently Peters head office or whatever actually send random inspectors out to check the BINS to make sure that all the stock left at the end of the day is actually thrown out. In addition to this, the bins were locked well away from everyone, and padlocked and such :umm2: I got quite irate at the manager about this actually, (I am not sure that this is actually a real thing, about the inspectors or if he just made up crap on the spot to shut me up...either way, they do write down whats left at the end of the night on a checklist thing, then throw it in the bin though) it possibly contributed to me being sacked for being 'not a good fit and 'causing trouble' :joker:

Yeah, it's astonishing the amount of waste that can come out of a single restaurant. It's infuriating. Not only in food, but in product waste in general, just the general production/running of a restaurant is pretty wasteful... the local businesses though seem to have a choice to donate or throw, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's not in certain company's policy to avoid this for health reasons :rolleyes: Even if it's not directly to the homeless from the front/back of their shop, the shelters that will pick up bulk food on their behalf if the restaurant tells them it is available. We have natural disasters often enough that there always seems to be loads of non-profits and local restaurants ready and willing to step up at a moments notice and come to the shelters with food when they open... so that could be somewhat of a local custom... we all need a little bit of extra help sometimes I feel though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That is to much writing ffs

[Jase.]

yes, i once saw a bench similar to this and i sat on the armrest in the middle, i had lots of pain from that and i cried because of the pain :sad:

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Iconic QUEEN!

[JerseyWins]

^ :laugh2:

[Mystic Mock]

Do you understand what parks are for?

For me it's playing Football and getting Ice Cream.:laugh:

But personally I feel like we as a society should be helping the homeless, not hindering them even more.