Transgender lag ‘sexually abused four female prisoners’

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/NINTCHDBPICT000421143704-e1531858870714.jpg?w=960



The inmate was sent there despite not having had gender reassignment surgery.

It is claimed she was visibly aroused when she allegedly assaulted the first inmate.

She was originally sent on remand to New Hall women’s prison after a judge heard how she had been living as a female for more than two years.

The alleged attacks will reignite the debate over whether transgender prisoners should be sent to women’s jails before they have had surgery.

The latest figures show there were 125 transgender prisoners in England and Wales at the end of March 2017, up from 70 a year earlier.

At the moment transgender women can only legally change their gender on their birth certificate if they have been medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria and have lived as a woman for two years.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6804433/transgender-lag-sexually-abused-four-female-prisoners-days-after-arriving-at-west-yorkshire-jail/

[ethanjames]

this person is not a portrayal of all trans people in prisons this is just one person. yes this person should be removed yet the majority of trans woman aren't like this

[Livia]

This person has foregone the right to be referred to as "she". If they're going to put people with penises in a women's jail, they need to be separated.

[Niamh.]

this person is not a portrayal of all trans people in prisons this is just one person. yes this person should be removed yet the majority of trans woman aren't like this

Prisons need to be segregated by sex otherwise you're putting women at risk so imo transwomen shouldn't be put in womens prisons unless they've had the surgery(and vice versa but it's obviously a bigger issue here for women than men)

[Livia]

this person is not a portrayal of all trans people in prisons this is just one person. yes this person should be removed yet the majority of trans woman aren't like this

No that's true. But this person has entered a women's jail while still having a penis. I'm sorry but that will not do. Women's safety needs to be a priority and this case is proof of that.

[ethanjames]

No that's true. But this person has entered a women's jail while still having a penis. I'm sorry but that will not do. Women's safety needs to be a priority and this case is proof of that.

oh yeah i agree i think overall i just think trans people have bad rep because of people like this but they should be separated by sex and unless they have had surgery that isn't fair

[Crimson Dynamo]

this person is not a portrayal of all trans people in prisons this is just one person. yes this person should be removed yet the majority of trans woman aren't like this

No one is saying that, except you?

:conf:

[ethanjames]

Prisons need to be segregated by sex otherwise you're putting women at risk so imo transwomen shouldn't be put in womens prisons unless they've had the surgery(and vice versa but it's obviously a bigger issue here for women than men)

i think if they have had surgery been living as a woman for years and had a letter proving they had gender dysphoria i don't see the problem but if you haven't had surgery it isn't fair on the other jailmates and this is coming from a trans person myself

[ethanjames]

No one is saying that, except you?

:conf:

i just know what people say and what people are like especially towards others who may be different from themselves and are minorities as a lot of the time people see one persons bad actions as a portrayal of everyone within that minority group i guess i just wanted to shut it down before it started

[Niamh.]

i think if they have had surgery been living as a woman for years and had a letter proving they had gender dysphoria i don't see the problem but if you haven't had surgery it isn't fair on the other jailmates and this is coming from a trans person myself

Totally agree, I didn't know you were trans Ethan, good to hear an opinion from a trans persons perspective though

[ethanjames]

Totally agree, I didn't know you were trans Ethan, good to hear an opinion from a trans persons perspective though

yes i am trans male! don't like to scream about it due to peoples judgemental thoughts but may as well be open :blush:

[Niamh.]

yes i am trans male! don't like to scream about it due to peoples judgemental thoughts but may as well be open :blush:

:love:

[Livia]

i think if they have had surgery been living as a woman for years and had a letter proving they had gender dysphoria i don't see the problem but if you haven't had surgery it isn't fair on the other jailmates and this is coming from a trans person myself

Agree with Niamh, I didn't know you were trans... and it's good to hear a balanced view from someone who really knows x

[Oliver_W]

I think I read/heard somewhere that transwomen assault women at the same proportionate rate as other males do?

Maybe Vicky might know more about that because it seems to be in her wheelhouse. I think I got it from a Magdalen Berns video, who said it as if everyone knows, and I never chased it up.

[ethanjames]

Agree with Niamh, I didn't know you were trans... and it's good to hear a balanced view from someone who really knows x

<3

[Brillopad]

No that's true. But this person has entered a women's jail while still having a penis. I'm sorry but that will not do. Women's safety needs to be a priority and this case is proof of that.

Completely agree with this! :clap1:

[Tom4784]

While I think incidents like this are rare and don't reflect trans people as a whole (let's face it, I think you're more likely to be assaulted by the someone who was born the same gender in a prison rather than a trans person), I have to disagree with the idea of someone who hasn't had gender reassignment going to a prison of their desired gender. It's dangerous for them and it's potentially dangerous for people around them.

[ethanjames]

While I think incidents like this are rare and don't reflect trans people as a whole (let's face it, I think you're more likely to be assaulted by the someone who was born the same gender in a prison rather than a trans person), I have to disagree with the idea of someone who hasn't had gender reassignment going to a of their desired gender. It's dangerous for them and it's potentially dangerous for people around them.

i agree with this completely!!!!

[Cherie]

i think if they have had surgery been living as a woman for years and had a letter proving they had gender dysphoria i don't see the problem but if you haven't had surgery it isn't fair on the other jailmates and this is coming from a trans person myself

.

Like anything these incidents are rare, but they are the incidents that make the news unfortunately, that said it should be a red flag to anyone thinking self identification is a good idea!

[jaxie]

The problem with this kind of thing isn't only the penis. Men are bigger and stronger than women. Even had he had the surgery he is still going to be bigger and stronger and capable of significant harm should tempers flare or should he have the motivation to do harm. It just isn't as simple as genital removal.

It doesn't matter if it's rare. Four women were still harmed by this person.

[Cal.]

i think if they have had surgery been living as a woman for years and had a letter proving they had gender dysphoria i don't see the problem but if you haven't had surgery it isn't fair on the other jailmates and this is coming from a trans person myself

.

[Scarlett.]

While I think incidents like this are rare and don't reflect trans people as a whole (let's face it, I think you're more likely to be assaulted by the someone who was born the same gender in a prison rather than a trans person), I have to disagree with the idea of someone who hasn't had gender reassignment going to a prison of their desired gender. It's dangerous for them and it's potentially dangerous for people around them.

I agree, but the problem is, it would also make them a main target in a male prison, perhaps it is just best to keep the separated from other prisoners altogether

[Vicky.]

There should be no male people in the female population, and vice versa. Solitary, or a trans wing in a few prisons would be the solution, not putting people with penises (along with the general strength and size adantage that males would have over females) in with females. Is it really a surprise to people that putting a male person, who is in there for rape anyway, in with females ends like this?!

Come the **** on...

The alleged victim — an inmate with whom she had struck up a friendship — said the remand prisoner stood close to her and touched her arm while her erect penis was sticking out from the top of her trousers.

Honestly, sentences like this should not exist in reporting.

I also think transmen would not be safe in with the general male population. Even if they are post operative, its just too dangerous, and the current rules are totally wrong. In my opinion.

[Vicky.]

I agree, but the real problem is, it would also make them a main target in a male prison, perhaps it is just best to keep the separated from other prisoners altogether

Yeah I don't think transwomen are safe as such in male prisons, but this goes for so many male people. Like, small men, gay men, disabled men...etc are all unsafe in male prisons. Infact pretty much anyone bar 'top dog' is safe.

The solution is not to put these male people who would be targeted in the female population. its to make male prisons safer for all male people. And if needed, segregate those who are in danger, or those causing the trouble :shrug:

[Scarlett.]

Yeah I don't think transwomen are safe as such in male prisons, but this goes for so many male people. Like, small men, gay men, disabled men...etc are all unsafe in male prisons. Infact pretty much anyone bar 'top dog' is safe.

The solution is not to put these male people who would be targeted in the female population. its to make male prisons safer for all male people. And if needed, segregate those who are in danger, or those causing the trouble :shrug:

Indeed, male prisons are notoriously dangerous, massively so in America

[Crimson Dynamo]

Indeed, male prisons are notoriously dangerous, massively so in America

You don't say.

[Scarlett.]

You don't say.

Ok?

[bots]

Indeed, male prisons are notoriously dangerous, massively so in America

i wouldn't say womens prisons were any safer

[Niamh.]

i wouldn't say womens prisons were any safer

I would

[Vicky.]

i wouldn't say womens prisons were any safer

They definitely are. Hence prison governors and such warning about men saying they are women simply to get put in the safer place. Rather than actually having sex dysphoria

[Marsh.]

Tbh, this person was jailed for rape to begin with so that should've raised a red flag from the start.

Having male, female and trans wings seems the only logical solution.

[Niamh.]

Tbh, this person was jailed for rape to begin with so that should've raised a red flag from the start.

Having male, female and trans wings seems the only logical solution.

Yep agree with both your points

[Crimson Dynamo]

Tbh, this person was jailed for rape to begin with so that should've raised a red flag from the start.

Having male, female and trans wings seems the only logical solution.

Yes because overcrowding isn't an issue for prisons..

Are you having a
bubble?

[Vicky.]

Tbh, this person was jailed for rape to begin with so that should've raised a red flag from the start.

Having male, female and trans wings seems the only logical solution.

Indeed. The current solution is just ridiculous and very dangerous. Putting a male rapist in a female prison ffs, and noone could predict how it would end, seemingly, or didn't care :umm2:

[Marsh.]

Yes because overcrowding isn't an issue for prisons..

Are you having a
bubble?

I don't seem to recall saying it wasn't.

Are you having a crackle?

[Northern Monkey]

Prisons need to be segregated by sex otherwise you're putting women at risk so imo transwomen shouldn't be put in womens prisons unless they've had the surgery(and vice versa but it's obviously a bigger issue here for women than men)

Yep 100%.I mean what did they think was going to happen?

Any idiot can see this is dangerous

[Tom4784]

I agree, but the problem is, it would also make them a main target in a male prison, perhaps it is just best to keep the separated from other prisoners altogether

Although I imagine it could cause a ****storm, when it comes to prisons, separating trans people from men and women may be the safest option for them.

[Scarlett.]

Tbh, this person was jailed for rape to begin with so that should've raised a red flag from the start.

Having male, female and trans wings seems the only logical solution.

Didn't even notice this, wtf were they thinking?

[user104658]

I agree, but the problem is, it would also make them a main target in a male prison, perhaps it is just best to keep the separated from other prisoners altogether

The problem then though is that it would be (rightly) considered cruel and unusual punishment; isolation is a form of torture. It would literally be better to just kill people than to sentence them to several years imprisonment in what would essentially be solitary confinement... people are permanently scarred mentally by a few months of it.

It starts to get very complicated very quickly.

[Marsh.]

The problem then though is that it would be (rightly) considered cruel and unusual punishment; isolation is a form of torture. It would literally be better to just kill people than to sentence them to several years imprisonment in what would essentially be solitary confinement... people are permanently scarred mentally by a few months of it.

It starts to get very complicated very quickly.

Why would it be solitary confinement?

They have separated wings for specific purposes?

[user104658]

Why would it be solitary confinement?

They have separated wings for specific purposes?

Well it assumes that there will be multiple transgender inmates in each prison in order not to have at least the possibility of isolation?

[Marsh.]

Well it assumes that there will be multiple transgender inmates in each prison in order not to have at least the possibility of isolation?

Then that should be sorted. :hmph:

But the entire system is in need of a bloody overhaul, it's a shambles.