Homosexuality in the Bible

[Redway]

I know there’s tons of off-shoots of Christianity that play down some teachings over others but on the other hand the Bible makes itself pretty clear in both the old and the New Testsment about what God thinks about homosexuality. How do the hardline Christians on here see homosexuality - can you pick and match your faith with certain doctrines or must it be what the Bible says?

[Vicky.]

I doubt you will fid any hardline Christians on here. I know we have some moderates...but noone I would say was seriously religious.

[Redway]

I doubt you will fid any hardline Christians on here. I know we have some moderates...but noone I would say was seriously religious.

Mhm. Hardline as in active Christian in any shade. I just meant people religion goes deeper for than being born into some denomination.

[Tom4784]

Like with all religious texts, it's a book written by men that reflects the time. If the bible was written today, it's views on homosexuality would be completely relaxed.

With Christianity in particular, a lot of christians pick and choose the teachings they want to follow and there's plenty of ridiculous things in the bible which no one follows any more so I tend to believe that people who believe that homsexuality is a sin can't hide behind their religious beliefs because they chose which parts to believe in.

[Vicky.]

Mhm. Hardline as in active Christian in any shade. I just meant people religion goes deeper for than being born into some denomination.

Ahh right, I understand what you mean now :p

[Glenn.]

I’m not religious, I have a brain. Big up to the homos!

[Jessica.]

The bible is stupid and even if you are a fan of it, I doubt it's all supposed to be taken literally.

[user104658]

I have a Christian friend (who turned out to be more religious than I originally thought...) and her thoughts on it seem to basically be;

Homosexuality (the act) is a sin. Homosexual desires are ok so long as you don't actually act on them. A homosexual can only get into heaven if they repent when they die (to be "forgiven"). However (and I think this is the important part that most Christians don't abide by) she PERSONALLY doesn't have any issue with people being gay and doesn't judge anyone, as its not people's place to judge anyone, it's between "them and God" and no one else's business :think:. It's a "we're all sinners and we'll all be judged when we die and no one needs to judge before that" sort of deal.

So basically if she had a gay friend she wouldn't mind them being gay but would "worry about them not being able to get into heaven" or something like that. But then, she's also mentioned that she sometimes gets worried about what will happen to her non-religious friends and prays for us. I think being a godless heathen is worse than being a gay believer in that sense? :joker:

[Redway]

The bible is stupid and even if you are a fan of it, I doubt it's all supposed to be taken literally.

I’m no Bible basher. This thread’s for people who are active Christians.

[armand.kay]

I think a lot of like me don't take the teachings in religious texts so literal. While I'm not very religious anymore when I was I always did consider the time these words were written and contex also. So rather than taking everything so literal and looking at it like a rule book I instead took away the moral message and applied it to my life. For me I was raised catholic for most of my life and then introduced to Islam through my step dad so while I'm aware that neither of these are likely to be the one true religion and the only way to save me from eternal damnation, Catholicism and Islam are the only ways I know when it comes to connecting with god and embracing spirituality

[Maru]

I have a Christian friend (who turned out to be more religious than I originally thought...) and her thoughts on it seem to basically be;

Homosexuality (the act) is a sin. Homosexual desires are ok so long as you don't actually act on them. A homosexual can only get into heaven if they repent when they die (to be "forgiven"). However (and I think this is the important part that most Christians don't abide by) she PERSONALLY doesn't have any issue with people being gay and doesn't judge anyone, as its not people's place to judge anyone, it's between "them and God" and no one else's business :think:. It's a "we're all sinners and we'll all be judged when we die and no one needs to judge before that" sort of deal.

So basically if she had a gay friend she wouldn't mind them being gay but would "worry about them not being able to get into heaven" or something like that. But then, she's also mentioned that she sometimes gets worried about what will happen to her non-religious friends and prays for us. I think being a godless heathen is worse than being a gay believer in that sense? :joker:

That's a very common view imo. (maybe not in the UK)

The fact it is a considered a "sin", maybe doesn't necessarily is meant to be a label to call that person "bad"... that's the "modern" view of religion skewing that I think... it's just Christians way of thinking that they believe that homosexuality is a gateway to other problems as well as the lifestyle that it introduces those people do promote choices and temptations that ultimately lead more people astray. I think most people who are actually devout in it, they treat the rules less like a rigid set of guidelines, but rather, God's warning in text that if that person were continue to ignore his warnings, then it would likely lead to the breaking down of that person and their soul... but ultimately, all people will almost certainly sin (and probably constantly)... , in the view of Christianity.

Like most religions, the Bible is meant to practiced, not simply "read" and "interpretted". So our relationship to the document would be expected to change as we make mistakes, repent and learn from those errors. It's one thing to really know the rules, it's another thing to "understand" them and to have lived that lesson. So I see religious text(s) as more of a "living" document"... hence things like Bible Study, confessions, etc... the way I see religion and really any spirituality, is that whatever structure we choose to follow, it's sort of practiced in the rear-view mirror... for example, a child can't help but sin from day 1 if they were never taught otherwise, so it's a process.

[Ammi]

I have a Christian friend (who turned out to be more religious than I originally thought...) and her thoughts on it seem to basically be;

Homosexuality (the act) is a sin. Homosexual desires are ok so long as you don't actually act on them. A homosexual can only get into heaven if they repent when they die (to be "forgiven"). However (and I think this is the important part that most Christians don't abide by) she PERSONALLY doesn't have any issue with people being gay and doesn't judge anyone, as its not people's place to judge anyone, it's between "them and God" and no one else's business :think:. It's a "we're all sinners and we'll all be judged when we die and no one needs to judge before that" sort of deal.

So basically if she had a gay friend she wouldn't mind them being gay but would "worry about them not being able to get into heaven" or something like that. But then, she's also mentioned that she sometimes gets worried about what will happen to her non-religious friends and prays for us. I think being a godless heathen is worse than being a gay believer in that sense? :joker:

..yeah your Christian friend is pretty much my experience in mindset of many Christians I know as well, TS...it’s more the worry of ‘gay’ not being allowed into heaven because of those gay ways...they’re welcomed into church, they’re welcomed into the arms of etc with no prejudice...but there’s that worry they won’t be able to complete their Christian journey through the pearly gates when the time comes...that’s why I find it hard with things like ‘we won’t write things on a cake because it goes against...etc’...because that’s only a rule that, that specific Christian person has made...it isn’t a bible rule to follow...I’m not saying it’s not a ‘proper Christian’ who would do that../..have that mindset because it’s what they themselves believe...it’s who they are as individuals...but maybe when they get to those pearly gates themselves...their God and Jesus might give them a little tap on the hand and say...no, that wasn’t very Christian ...you can still come through but I had to say that...or maybe he might leave those mindsets in the waiting room for a few decades or so...just so they have a little time to think about it all ....we just don’t know, God is an unknown in his/her whims and decisions...so the waiting room at those gates must be pretty interesting...any old thing could happen...

[Crimson Dynamo]

hate the act

love the sinner

that is the current fudge


but all the "christians" i have ever know dislike homosexuality and look down on homosexuals no matter what sh1te they try and come out with for likes

[Ammi]

...you need to get out more and meet more Christians, LT...maybe that’s why you’re quite anti faith and anti religion..because of the dislike and look down on, types of mindsets...the likes are much more common in many people's experiences than you might think...

[Twosugars]

homosexuals are naughty naughty naughty

[Crimson Dynamo]

...you need to get out more and meet more Christians, LT...maybe that’s why you’re quite anti faith and anti religion..because of the dislike and look down on, types of mindsets...the likes are much more common in many people's experiences than you might think...

i have met many believe you me and i speak from direct experience of being in many churches, many congregations and many bible studies in england and scotland



faith is a weasel word for willful ignorance - call it what it is

[ethanjames]

i don't think the bible explicitly says that homosexuality is wrong in fact the quote most people use against gay people is actually translated against pedophilia not homosexuality. i see people use christanity as an excuse now to hate gay people an though i am not a Christian myself i think we have got to the point where we have to become more tolerant of others no matter our religious beliefs

[Crimson Dynamo]

God made male and female according to the Book of Genesis to complete each other and to procreate. Even if the couple are unable to have children, the sexual union is theoretically open to the production of children.


The natural order represented in nature is for male and female to unite. This is often linked to the natural law argument.


Homosexual practice is forbidden in the book of Leviticus: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death." (Leviticus 20:13).


In some of St Paul's letters included in the Bible, he condemns homosexuality as 'unrighteous' and claims that men who practise homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Christians should show love and compassion to homosexuals, but that homosexuals should not engage in sexual activity. This is because most churches teach that sex should only happen within marriage, which the Church defines as being between a man and a woman.

this is essentially the official line. Be gay all you want BUT DONT HAVE SEX

https://www.bbc.com/education/guides/zqd7sbk/revision/5


(so many tibbers are good Christians..) :hee:

[jaxie]

God made male and female according to the Book of Genesis to complete each other and to procreate. Even if the couple are unable to have children, the sexual union is theoretically open to the production of children.


The natural order represented in nature is for male and female to unite. This is often linked to the natural law argument.


Homosexual practice is forbidden in the book of Leviticus: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death." (Leviticus 20:13).


In some of St Paul's letters included in the Bible, he condemns homosexuality as 'unrighteous' and claims that men who practise homosexuality will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Christians should show love and compassion to homosexuals, but that homosexuals should not engage in sexual activity. This is because most churches teach that sex should only happen within marriage, which the Church defines as being between a man and a woman.

this is essentially the official line. Be gay all you want BUT DONT HAVE SEX

https://www.bbc.com/education/guides/zqd7sbk/revision/5


(so many tibbers are good Christians..) :hee:

It's a shame the Bible isn't a bit more clear on not messing about with children. The priesthood seems a bit confused about that one.

[Niamh.]

There's a lot of crazy **** written in the bible, like others have said reflected "mens" thoughts at that time. You can choose to interpret it however you wish. it's all a load of crap anyway though imo

[user104658]

Be gay all you want BUT DONT HAVE SEX

(so many tibbers are good Christians..) :hee:

:joker::joker:

[Niamh.]

Straight people aren't supposed to have sex either unless they're married, if god hates sex so much why did he make it so much fun :think:

[user104658]

Straight people aren't supposed to have sex either unless they're married, if god hates sex so much why did he make it so much fun :think:

That was just people getting creative, sex with God is surprisingly humdrum. He's strictly lights off missionary position, no foreplay. Takes what he wants and leaves you high and dry. Just a very selfish lover really :(

[Niamh.]

That was just people getting creative, sex with God is surprisingly humdrum. He's strictly lights off missionary position, no foreplay. Takes what he wants and leaves you high and dry. Just a very selfish lover really :(

:laugh2:

[Vicky.]

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death.

So no issue with lesbians then. I think this answers the age old question, and God is indeed a man.

[Niamh.]

So no issue with lesbians then. I think this answers the age old question, and God is indeed a man.

:laugh:

[user104658]

So no issue with lesbians then. I think this answers the age old question, and God is indeed a man.

OR... a lesbian. :think:

[Vicky.]

OR... a lesbian. :think:

And back to the drawing board :bored:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Good old God

#lad

[Redway]

i don't think the bible explicitly says that homosexuality is wrong in fact the quote most people use against gay people is actually translated against pedophilia not homosexuality. i see people use christanity as an excuse now to hate gay people an though i am not a Christian myself i think we have got to the point where we have to become more tolerant of others no matter our religious beliefs

Oh come on. I know it’s open to interpretation but the Bible’s explicitly mentioned it more than once.

[Tom4784]

So no issue with lesbians then. I think this answers the age old question, and God is indeed a man.

Or a militant homophobic lesbian?

[Tom4784]

OR... a lesbian. :think:

Oh.

[armand.kay]

So no issue with lesbians then. I think this answers the age old question, and God is indeed a man.

tbh that line sounds more anti bi than gay. I mean you don't lie with women at all have you found the loop hole?

[Livia]

The same bit of Leviticus that says Homosexuals must die, also says that it's against God's law to plant two different crops in one field. shave your sideburns, or wear clothes of two different fabrics.

[Niamh.]

The same bit of Leviticus that says Homosexuals must die, also says that it's against God's law to plant two different crops in one field. shave your sideburns, or wear clothes of two different fabrics.

Yeah see to me that just proves how "man made" the bible actually is, it's totally stuff related to thinking of the times

[Maru]

i don't think the bible explicitly says that homosexuality is wrong in fact the quote most people use against gay people is actually translated against pedophilia not homosexuality. i see people use christanity as an excuse now to hate gay people an though i am not a Christian myself i think we have got to the point where we have to become more tolerant of others no matter our religious beliefs

You know, I was doing some reading after posting and apparently biblical literacy is supposedly abysmal low, including many churches... and that makes sense for a document that's been translated I guess... I mean it makes sense, given how we see information circulates and is "altered", key points "ommitted" along it's path... The Bible, the very first click-bait (flip?)...

My family was originally Baptist (non-denominational now), and I think that that particular "strain" of Christianity is very fire & brimstone, particularly Southern Baptist... I want to say they take the Bible in the most literal sense, but I'm not an expert. :spin: I just know from having gone to several denominations, I don't think Christianity in general is a religion of HATE. That is not it's core philosophy. Unfortunately, every group has it's corrupt individuals... but at least with religion, most rules are fairly clear... like don't murder, don't steal. They are just a loud minority with a couple of craft store signs...

An old friend, a liberal jew (later agnostic), she had her pencil taken away by a group of Christian mean girls and the one girl held it in front of her and demanded she repent her sins, that she would return it if she repented for her sins and pledged her love(?) for Jesus Christ... that type of treatment is obviously traumatic for so many people, particularly at a young age, so I don't think that the criticism is necessarily unwarranted... but my opinion, these things shouldn't be forced on us so young... I think most religion/spirituality, we reap better if we are grounded first as individuals and then taught other ways of "seeing" the world...

I think spirituality itself can actually be quite beneficial... even just being agnostic (or even atheist I hear O_o), I think a lot can be gained, because you're more receptive to the deeper experiences of life, and have a desire to experiment with re-interpretation... a lot of people interpret most experiences as good/bad... and that's quite a sad way to view the world, imo... I think everything has a little bit of good, and a little bit of bad... joy in life for me is searching for the good and cultivating that in your life as well as in your heart+mind... we human-beings rely heavily on story-telling to help "guide" our emotional well-being and sense of personal power.. those narratives say a lot about us at a deeper level really... if even just in a psychological sense.

[Jamie89]

Homosexual practice is forbidden in the book of Leviticus: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death." (Leviticus 20:13).



It's not really possible anyway if you think about it, I'm planning to exploit that loophole when I reach the gates :laugh:

[Livia]

There's a lot of focus on what the Bible says about homosexuality. In truth, it doesn't say that much, neither does the Quran. The Bible has been written by countless people over many centuries and has been translated and edited many times. I cannot see where the words of God himself say that homosexuals must die. Other people may have said that, but not God, neither in the Quran nor the Bible. The story of Lot appears in both books... and the words of Allah are clear in the Quran, as they are in the Torah... nowhere does he say kill homosexuals. Mohammed said it... but not Allah.

So in conclusion, I don't believe God hates gay people. He gave us Ten Commandments to live by, commandments to live a good and wholesome life... gays don't get a mention.

[glibberglobber]

The first people were man and woman.

Case closed

[Livia]

The first people were man and woman.

Case closed

Ah so you're a creationist? You believe the world is only 5000 years old.

Good for you...…………...

[Twosugars]

The first people were man and woman.

Case closed

Oh glob off

[glibberglobber]

Ah so you're a creationist? You believe the world is only 5000 years old.

Good for you...…………...


Whoever said 5000 years ago? There is physical proof for the existence of Egyptians in 3000 BC and Scientists believe humans evolved into our current form at least 100,000 years ago..

If the first people were not man and woman how would life continue?

[AnnieK]

Whoever said 5000 years ago? There is physical proof for the existence of Egyptians in 3000 BC and Scientists believe humans evolved into our current form at least 100,000 years ago..

If the first people were not man and woman how would life continue?

I dont quite get your point, even if it were men and women first, what does that prove and why case closed?

[glibberglobber]

I dont quite get your point, even if it were men and women first, what does that prove and why case closed?

Leviticus 20:13

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

[user104658]

The Old Testament is explicitly anti-homosexual and anyone who is claiming to be able to interpret it differently is simply lying to themselves. However (for Christians) the New Testament supposedly "overrules" the Old Testament.

The New Testament explicitly describes homosexual relations as a sin but doesn't suggest that people should judge or punish based on those sins, rather that we should all accept each other regardless of sin (because literally everyone has varying degrees of sin) and that acceptance into heaven depends solely on repenting for those sins (which can actually be done at the pearly gates after death.. you can basically live how you want).

Sooo... I guess it depends on how people feel about the proposition that being gay in life is fine, and should be accepted, but is nonetheless sinful and will eventually need to be apologised for.

[Livia]

Whoever said 5000 years ago? There is physical proof for the existence of Egyptians in 3000 BC and Scientists believe humans evolved into our current form at least 100,000 years ago..

If the first people were not man and woman how would life continue?

Hmmm... you use Adam and Eve as an analogy and then need creationism spelled out for you. I feel embarrassed for you.

[Livia]

Leviticus 20:13

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

These are words that have been translated from words supposedly spoken to Moses which he repeated to the Israelites. It was spread by word of mouth and wasn't written down for aaaaaages. Then it's been translated time after time.

The only words God gave to Moses that were written on tablets of stone were the commandments, and again... gays don't get a mention.

[kirklancaster]

As Livia so rightfully says; some of what is written in the Judeo Christian bible is man's authorship but the 10 commandments are the direct words of God, and NOWHERE in those commandments does God even mention Homosexuality let alone condemn or castigate it.

(Incidentally, God's Commandments are irrefutably THE greatest and wisest lifestyle guide ever presented to mankind.)

[kirklancaster]

These are words that have been translated from words supposedly spoken to Moses which he repeated to the Israelites. It was spread by word of mouth and wasn't written down for aaaaaages. Then it's been translated time after time.

The only words God gave to Moses that were written on tablets of stone were the commandments, and again... gays don't get a mention.

Oops - you posted this while I was typing my now redundant post. :laugh:

[user104658]

I thought it was widely held Christian belief that the bible (all of it in order to be officially included), and all official translations, are guided by the hand of God and therefore infallible? :suspect:

I mean otherwise... you have to take THE ENTIRE BOOK with a pinch of salt, because anyone could have stuck whatever they wanted in there, and there's no way to know which parts are right :think:. I mean even the commandments... it's written that they're the direct word of God... but if it's being argued that "flawed men" made up other parts of the bible, it has to be accepted that some bloke could just have made up that part too. Surely?

[Twosugars]

And i bet all the angels do each other
I know they're meant to be asexual, but cmon they're as camp as Christmas

[Livia]

And i bet all the angels do each other
I know they're meant to be asexual, but cmon they're as camp as Christmas

I like the idea of angels, but I prefer the angels in His Dark Materials trilogy...

[kirklancaster]

I thought it was widely held Christian belief that the bible (all of it in order to be officially included), and all official translations, are guided by the hand of God and therefore infallible? :suspect:

I mean otherwise... you have to take THE ENTIRE BOOK with a pinch of salt, because anyone could have stuck whatever they wanted in there, and there's no way to know which parts are right think:. I mean even the commandments... it's written that they're the direct word of God... but if it's being argued that "flawed men" made up other parts of the bible, it has to be accepted that some bloke could just have made up that part too. Surely?

Not ALL Christians or Jews believe that, T.S. In much the same way that not all Muslims believe that the Quran is 100% the word of Allah.

Only extremists and fundamentalists in the above religions believe that.

As for the emboldened, that's where the discerning utilise a combination of intellect, wisdom, and Faith.

A logical extension of your premise, of course, would be that we should totally disregard ANY book which is found to contain erroneous information; History textbooks which state that Henrik Schleeman excavated Troy - he located the site of ancient Troy but actually virtually destroyed the city by excavating through it to many levels below it.

Or how about disregarding all the information in Science textbooks which might still have now-disproven articles on Static Universe or Cold Fusion?

[user104658]

Not ALL Christians or Jews believe that, T.S. In much the same way that not all Muslims believe that the Quran is 100% the word of Allah.

Only extreme fundamentalists in the above religions believe that.Surely the point stands though... That if we only know about the commandments from religious texts, but religious texts are fallible and open to being altered or corrupted either initially or during translation, how can anyone be sure that even those are correct?

I mean, maybe there were originally only 8 commandments but then the guy who was writing it walked in on his missus shaking the headboard with the bloke next door, so he was like "OI! What is this? Where's my pen? Hmph. NO ADULTERY. NO TO BANGING YOUR NEIGHBOURS WIFE. THAT MEANS YOU, BOB!" and so now there's 10.

[Niamh.]

Surely the point stands though... That if we only know about the commandments from religious texts, but religious texts are fallible and open to being altered or corrupted either initially or during translation, how can anyone be sure that even those are correct?

I mean, maybe there were originally only 8 commandments but then the guy who was writing it walked in on his missus shaking the headboard with the bloke next door, so he was like "OI! What is this? Where's my pen? Hmph. NO ADULTERY. NO TO BANGING YOUR NEIGHBOURS WIFE. THAT MEANS YOU, BOB!" and so now there's 10.That would make 9 [emoji12]

[user104658]

That would make 9 [emoji12]"Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife" are two separate commandments :nono:. (He was REALLY mad about it)

[Niamh.]

"Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife" are two separate commandments :nono:. (He was REALLY mad about it)[emoji23] the first 4 are basically the same as well actually

[user104658]

[emoji23] the first 4 are basically the same as well actuallySo basically there are two commandments

1) There's only one, awesome God and don't forget it.

2) Get off my missus, Bob!

[Niamh.]

So basically there are two commandments

1) There's only one, awesome God and don't forget it.

2) Get off my missus, Bob!Bloody Bob [emoji34]

[Livia]

So this discussion descended into a piss-take like the topic of religion always does.

[kirklancaster]

So this discussion descended into a piss-take like the topic of religion always does.

Nah, not 'religion' just Judaism and Christianity. I've never witnessed anything similar on the Quran or Islam on here.

Not that it bothers me though, Liv because I KNOW what I know, and am very comfortable in my faith.