Thug punches a woman unconscious in vicious attack outside an Essex nightclub

[Crimson Dynamo]

W53caJLwOZ8

she could quite easily have died by hitting her head on the ground, seen it happen lots on liveleak


A man punches a woman and knocks her unconscious shocking video shows
Footage of the altercation outside Faces nightclub in Gants Hill has gone viral
Woman was hospitalised following the attack, and no arrests have been made


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6008299/Horrific-moment-thug-punches-woman-unconscious-vicious-attack-outside-Essex-nightclub.html

[Niamh.]

Jesus :/

[Marsh.]

:umm2:

[Cherie]

He is in clear view, someone must know him

[bots]

yeah under any definition that is using excessive force and he should be up in court for it.

[Beso]

That is not a man.

[Cal.]

Jesus Christ. She looks like a gobby cow but in no way deserved that.

[Glenn.]

He didn’t even do it in one punch

[Cherie]

It won't be anything new just now people are videoing it, the good news is he is recognisable so I guess his life might be a bit more difficult now

[Marsh.]

Literally me defending myself from Cal on a night out.

[smudgie]

Charming.:fist:

[Nicky91]

omg then you're really a tough guy, punching a woman

i would say try to take on someone your own size, but then i expect this thug to be beaten up himself


poor woman as well

[Nicky91]

Jesus Christ. She looks like a gobby cow but in no way deserved that.

honestly, no one deserves to be punched unconscious like that


except maybe thugs like this guy, and you know what they say ''karma is a bitch'' so i can see karma coming back at him for this

[RileyH]

Embarrassing

[arista]

He is in clear view, someone must know him


Yes
its not even on TV news yet?

[kirklancaster]

Don't want to post no vigilantist comment in any knee-jerk reaction, so I'll just say; 'God bless his over-exuberant little cotton socks'.

[Cherie]

Yes
its not even on TV news yet?

It's news this morning, his Mum handed him in :clap1:

[Beso]

Supermum.

[kirklancaster]

It's news this morning, his Mum handed him in :clap1:

Good for her. The RIGHT thing to do.

[Niamh.]

It's news this morning, his Mum handed him in :clap1:

Really? That's surprising but refreshing

[Black Dagger]

That comments section on YouTube needs throwing in the trash.

[kirklancaster]

That comments section on YouTube needs throwing in the trash.

FM - I have just looked at them since you posted. They are like the comments of 12-year-old *******. :shrug:

[Northern Monkey]

What an hard bastard

[Northern Monkey]

That comments section on YouTube needs throwing in the trash.

Yes,I found this one particularly endearing from Carol Jones “dirty stinking diseased ***** - get some you filth’

Just lovely

[Maru]

YT comments ... it manages to be worse than Twitter somehow.

The Mom turning him in :love: That does happen... and it is the right thing to do. He could also maybe threaten her or another family member... but maybe he also had a history, who knows. So maybe in seeing the clip it wasn't hard to put two and two together.

[Dash Darington]

No sympathy. She wanted to get in the guy's face and even continued to advance on him after she got hit the first time.

[arista]

No sympathy. She wanted to get in the guy's face and even continued to advance on him after she got hit the first time.


But his mother took him
to the police station

Men on doors
do not punch women like that.

[Cherie]

No sympathy. She wanted to get in the guy's face and even continued to advance on him after she got hit the first time.

Physical assault is never okay

[Denver]

No sympathy. She wanted to get in the guy's face and even continued to advance on him after she got hit the first time.

She was actually protecting girls he had been harassing

[hijaxers]

No sympathy. She wanted to get in the guy's face and even continued to advance on him after she got hit the first time.

No sympathy - whats wrong with you ?

[Niamh.]

No sympathy - whats wrong with you ?

He should be allowed harass women in peace :nono:

[kirklancaster]

He should be allowed harass women in peace :nono:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: O-U-C-H!

[Dash Darington]

She was actually protecting girls he had been harassing

Bull****. He wasn't within 10 feet of any girl when the aggressor got in his face. A man can't get in another man's face like that. Why should a woman expect to get away with it? Obviously it's not nice to see girls getting hit by guys, but the source of the problem is gross women thinking they have a license to get physically aggressive with men.

No sympathy. If you don't want to get punched, stop acting like you want to fight a man.

[Marsh.]

No sympathy. She wanted to get in the guy's face and even continued to advance on him after she got hit the first time.

Knocking somebody unconscious is not an appropriate response to someone screaming in your face.

[Denver]

Bull****. He wasn't within 10 feet of any girl when the aggressor got in his face. A man can't get in another man's face like that. Why should a woman expect to get away with it? Obviously it's not nice to see girls getting hit by guys, but the source of the problem is gross women thinking they have a license to get physically aggressive with men.

No sympathy. If you don't want to get punched, stop acting like you want to fight a man.

So you believe in women getting sexual harassed and rape d as long as nobody see's it?

[Dash Darington]

Physical assault is never okay

Precisely. Getting in someone's face like that is an act of assault. You don't have to make contact for it to be assault. Finally someone agrees with me. The woman should not have assaulted the man. Physical assault is never okay.

[Denver]

Precisely. Getting in someone's face like that is an act of assault. You don't have to make contact for it to be assault. Finally someone agrees with me. The woman should not have assaulted the man. Physical assault is never okay.

So everytime a woman gets in your face you beat her up until she is out cold?

[Dash Darington]

Knocking somebody unconscious is not an appropriate response to someone screaming in your face.

It's overkill, but hardly an unforseeable response. If I got in a bigger man's face like that I'd definitely see that as a possible outcome. She wanted trouble, and she got it.

[Dash Darington]

So you believe in women getting sexual harassed and rape d as long as nobody see's it?

So everytime a woman gets in your face you beat her up until she is out cold?

If you can't think of a response that doesn't require you to deliberately misrepresent the opposing position, you are defeated.

[Marsh.]

It's overkill, but hardly an unforseeable response. If I got in a bigger man's face like that I'd definitely see that as a possible outcome. She wanted trouble, and she got it.

The clue is in your description of him as "the bigger man". She pose no danger to him screaming her head off like a banshee.

His response was completely out of proportion.

[Denver]

If you can't think of a response that doesn't require you to deliberately misrepresent the opposing position, you are defeated.

All i see you saying is that the women deserve to be knocked out cold.

Do you know she could have died from one of those punches? do you still see it as acceptable

[Dash Darington]

All i see you saying is that the women deserve to be knocked out cold.


As previously stated, if you can't think of a response that doesn't require you to deliberately misrepresent the opposing position, you are defeated. You haven't seen me use the word "deserve."

Do you know she could have died from one of those punches? do you still see it as acceptable

I don't see any of this as acceptable. I appear to be the only person in the thread who would caution young women against engaging in this dangerous behaviour. If someone insists in putting themselves in harm's way they'll get no sympathy from me. If I had been there I would not have intervened.

[Dash Darington]

The clue is in your description of him as "the bigger man". She pose no danger to him screaming her head off like a banshee.

His response was completely out of proportion.

She posed little physical danger to him, but she doesn't have the right to get in his face like that. The whole point of getting that close to him is the implied threat of physical violence.

His response absolutely was out of proportion. So was hers. She didn't like something he said, so she got in his face yelling and pointing her finger in his face. She wanted to get physically aggressive, ironically depending on the man's restraint and compassion to ensure her safety, while she sought to abuse him. What a monumentally stupid thing to do.

[Marsh.]

She posed little physical danger to him, but she doesn't have the right to get in his face like that. The whole point of getting that close to him is the implied threat of physical violence.

His response absolutely was out of proportion. So was hers. She didn't like something he said, so she got in his face yelling and pointing her finger in his face. She wanted to get physically aggressive, ironically depending on the man's restraint and compassion to ensure her safety, while she sought to abuse him. What a monumentally stupid thing to do.

She posed no actual threat.

Hence the fact he was the one who knocked her out cold.

There is no excuse for his actions.

[Marsh.]

I don't see any of this as acceptable. I appear to be the only person in the thread who would caution young women against engaging in this dangerous behaviour. If someone insists in putting themselves in harm's way they'll get no sympathy from me. If I had been there I would not have intervened.

I don't think anybody's defending the girl for being a gobby cow.

But you're defending the guy for his actions, which are indefensible.

[Dash Darington]

She posed no actual threat.

Hence the fact he was the one who knocked her out cold.

There is no excuse for his actions.

She posed a physical threat, in addition to the lesser harm of harassing him, which she did actually inflict.

There is no excuse for her actions.

[Marsh.]

She posed a physical threat.

No she didn't. Hence her being the one out cold on the floor.

[Dash Darington]

I don't think anybody's defending the girl for being a gobby cow.

People are defending her actions by claiming that she was acting as a defender of the other women present.


But you're defending the guy for his actions, which are indefensible.

Nope. I do sympathize with the no-win situation that the man is in when a woman gets physically aggressive, because he either has to allow himself to be abused or respond physically and have the aggressor treated as a victim simply because she's a woman. I haven't defended his actions. I simply have no sympathy for someone who picks a fight with someone bigger because she knows if he does anything she'll be treated as a victim and her target will be vilified.

It's interesting to note that she probably wouldn't have behaved like this in the first place if not for the expectation that any physical response by him would be met by sympathy for her (the aggressor), and condemnation for him. That sort of response actually encourages this type of behaviour.

[Dash Darington]

No she didn't. Hence her being the one out cold on the floor.

Your reasoning skills are letting you down. Just because she has a lower capacity for violence doesn't mean she has no capacity for violence.

[RichardG]

Your reasoning skills are letting you down. Just because she has a lower capacity for violence doesn't mean she has no capacity for violence.

If she displayed this capacity for violence by trying to shoot the guy then more people might be in support of him. As it stands, the extent of the violence that she displayed was by standing in front of him and shouting at him. It doesn’t matter how hard you try to twist this story to try and justify his actions and to pass the blame on to the woman - the appropriate response to that is never to punch the person so hard that you could kill them.

[Glenn.]

Dash put down the multi pack of stella mate

[thesheriff443]

Dash, tibbs lynch mob is out on the loose.

Someone's actions will get a reaction.

Members need to look at what dash is saying not! What you think he is saying.

[Marsh.]

Your reasoning skills are letting you down. Just because she has a lower capacity for violence doesn't mean she has no capacity for violence.

Well, at least you're actually moving in the right direction, even if not actually comprehending what's being said.

If someone has more strength than another, they don't need to use FULL force in order to incapacitate the other person and overreact to the actual situation.

She was screaming in his face - he knocked her out cold. That is not an acceptable reaction.

Tie yourself in knots trying to justify this unnecessary violent action, but it does not justify it and never will.

[Marsh.]

Dash, tibbs lynch mob is out on the loose.

Someone's actions will get a reaction.

Members need to look at what dash is saying not! What you think he is saying.

No, everybody understands what he's saying. It seems you don't.

Someone's actions will get a reaction, yes. His reaction was not appropriate to her action.

Also, 3 posters holding the same opinion =/= Lynch mob. Grow up.

[Ammi]

Bull****. He wasn't within 10 feet of any girl when the aggressor got in his face. A man can't get in another man's face like that. Why should a woman expect to get away with it? Obviously it's not nice to see girls getting hit by guys, but the source of the problem is gross women thinking they have a license to get physically aggressive with men.

No sympathy. If you don't want to get punched, stop acting like you want to fight a man.

....obviously it’s not nice to see a guy have a girl get in his face like that...but the source of the problem is gross men thinking they have a licence to get physically aggressive with a woman if they do that ...no sympathy, if you don’t want to get charged with grievous bodily harm, stop acting in such a way...(...and be thankful the charge wasn’t something more serious if her head had hit the ground in a way that the charge could have been much more serious..)...

[JerseyWins]

Wow this guy is gross no matter what she was telling him :skull:

The way she's lying on the ground after :worry:

[thesheriff443]

No, everybody understands what he's saying. It seems you don't.

Someone's actions will get a reaction, yes. His reaction was not appropriate to her action.

Also, 3 posters holding the same opinion =/= Lynch mob. Grow up.

Trying to drag someone to your way of thinking and make them conform to your way of thinking by continually pushing your opinion of what's right!

He explained him self and defended himself against but you just can't accept someone's else's opinion.

It's what you and others do!

You grow up and accept other members opinions

[thesheriff443]

If he pushed her away she could of fell hit her head and died.

[thesheriff443]

Big man small woman

If a 6 foot 15 stone body builder or 5 foot 8 stone woman threatens to kill you.

The police and the courts treat both threats the same, woman are just as responsible for their actions.

[user104658]

His response absolutely was out of proportion. So was hers. She didn't like something he said, so she got in his face yelling and pointing her finger in his face. She wanted to get physically aggressive, ironically depending on the man's restraint and compassion to ensure her safety, while she sought to abuse him. What a monumentally stupid thing to do.

At the risk of popping my head over the parapet... I don't actually disagree with that.

I would absolutely never advocate or justify anyone punching anyone else unless it's in direct response to being hit first, but on the other hand, the claim that there was zero provocation is simply false and there IS a worrying culture of people being verbally aggressive and making aggressive gestures on the assumption that they "cannot" be hurt "because that's not allowed". His action were thuggish, dangerous, and massively out of proportion and he doesn't deserve vindication but... Trying to insist that she was doing "nothing wrong" is irresponsible and dangerous. Pointing, screaming and getting in someone's face isn't an appropriate response to any situation, either. It's also (as we can see) risky behaviour that shouldn't be encouraged, for obvious reasons... Because there are people like this guy, who will snap and hurt you. It's all very well pointing out that he "shouldn't"... Of course he shouldn't... But acting as if the world IS as it SHOULD BE on principle and expecting that alone to keep you safe is not practical.

I have to also note that Dash hasn't once said that the guy's actions were right, nor made excuses that justify what he did, and has in fact repeatedly stated in one way or another that the guy crossed the line... And yet is being repeatedly accused of "saying what he did was OK" / "justifying violence" / "making excuses" and sorry guys but that is misrepresentation and strawman.

Really no different to when I'm constantly accused of "making excuses" for criminals / murderers by stating that they have psychological disorders and that those disorders are interesting and we should work to understand them.

You know. When people come in like "Understand?? What do you MEAN understand! They are evil monsters nothing to understand. Why are u saying we should just let them out and feed them lollipops and children herp de derp why u making excuses!?"


So yeah. I don't think it's wrong to try to understand this situation as a whole series of events and make criticisms of other aspects. Saying that she wasnt behaving well by pointing and shouting is NOT justifying him punching her in the face, which was horrendous.

But people are constantly making the error that "explanation" = "excuse", and failing to look at situations objectively because they're blinded by incredulity.

[AnnieK]

At the risk of popping my head over the parapet... I don't actually disagree with that.

I would absolutely never advocate or justify anyone punching anyone else unless it's in direct response to being hit first, but on the other hand, the claim that there was zero provocation is simply false and there IS a worrying culture of people being verbally aggressive and making aggressive gestures on the assumption that they "cannot" be hurt "because that's not allowed". His action were thuggish, dangerous, and massively out of proportion and he doesn't deserve vindication but... Trying to insist that she was doing "nothing wrong" is irresponsible and dangerous. Pointing, screaming and getting in someone's face isn't an appropriate response to any situation, either. It's also (as we can see) risky behaviour that shouldn't be encouraged, for obvious reasons... Because there are people like this guy, who will snap and hurt you. It's all very well pointing out that he "shouldn't"... Of course he shouldn't... But acting as if the world IS as it SHOULD BE on principle and expecting that alone to keep you safe is not practical.

I have to also note that Dash hasn't once said that the guy's actions were right, nor made excuses that justify what he did, and has in fact repeatedly stated in one way or another that the guy crossed the line... And yet is being repeatedly accused of "saying what he did was OK" / "justifying violence" / "making excuses" and sorry guys but that is misrepresentation and strawman.

Really no different to when I'm constantly accused of "making excuses" for criminals / murderers by stating that they have psychological disorders and that those disorders are interesting and we should work to understand them.

You know. When people come in like "Understand?? What do you MEAN understand! They are evil monsters nothing to understand. Why are u saying we should just let them out and feed them lollipops and children herp de derp why u making excuses!?"


So yeah. I don't think it's wrong to try to understand this situation as a whole series of events and make criticisms of other aspects. Saying that she wasnt behaving well by pointing and shouting is NOT justifying him punching her in the face, which was horrendous.

But people are constantly making the error that "explanation" = "excuse", and failing to look at situations objectively because they're blinded by incredulity.

To a certain extent I agree. I don't believe in women hiding behind the "I'm a woman" line when it comes to situations like this. I believe if a woman is going to strike a man, she better be prepared to get one back.

This guy did completely overstep the mark as she had not laid a hand on him so his reaction was not justified. I have seen some girls on nights out laying into men with punches and kicks and when retaliated against cry foul because "you can't hit women" but feel completely justified in punching and kicking men.

This situation shows how alcohol and confrontation do not mix. The guy in question is without doubt a douche bag and deserves an assault charge, he is lucky that is all he is facing - with a knock out like that it could have been easily much much worse.

[Northern Monkey]

I agree with TS and AnnieK to a point.Women shouldn’t be able to hide behind their vaginas to excuse assaulting men.

However this guy was waay excessive in the force he used and almost looked as if hitting a woman was second nature or enjoyable.She wasn’t actually hitting him,Just trying to intimidate him.He should’ve warned her to get out of his face,then he should have tried to move away.If she then followed him then push her away or restrain her and NOT KO her.If she was actually attacking him physically then he had more grounds to defend himself although I wouldn’t make the same choice he did tbh.

[bots]

I'm with Toy Soldier with respect to this case. I mean its not even a sexist thing, the situation equally applies to it being 2 men or 2 women. Don't over react and don't provoke.

[Cherie]

Of course as a woman she can't expect not to be hit, woman are raped, murdered and physically abused at the hands of their partners evey day of the week so it is ridiculous to claim that a woman feels safe due to her gender :unsure: she was verbally agressive yes but then we don't know what happened before hand to make her react in this way? I am assuming she didn't just waltz up to him and start verbally assaulting him, she was defending herself or someone else maybe not in a controlled way but I doubt reasoning with this guy in a calm manner would have elicted a different response.

[Cherie]

Precisely. Getting in someone's face like that is an act of assault. You don't have to make contact for it to be assault. Finally someone agrees with me. The woman should not have assaulted the man. Physical assault is never okay.

Physical ...and verbals ....two different things entirely

[Niamh.]

Of course as a woman she can't expect not to be hit, woman are raped, murdered and physically abused at the hands of their partners evey day of the week so it is ridiculous to claim that a woman feels safe due to her gender :unsure: she was verbally agressive yes but then we don't know what happened before hand to make her react in this way? I am assuming she didn't just waltz up to him and start verbally assaulting him, she was defending herself or someone else maybe not in a controlled way but I doubt reasoning with this guy in a calm manner would have elicted a different response.

I know yeah, that's ****ing hilarious

[Niamh.]

I'm with Toy Soldier with respect to this case. I mean its not even a sexist thing, the situation equally applies to it being 2 men or 2 women. Don't over react and don't provoke.

If she'd put her hands on him yes but she didn't so no

[Cherie]

I know yeah, that's ****ing hilarious

I think what is being purported is know your place little lady and don't react because the guy might hit you

the lady in Paris reacted in a calm and reasoned manner she still got whacked...

[Niamh.]

I think what is being purported is know your place little lady and don't react because the guy might hit you

the lady in Paris reacted in a calm and reasoned manner she still got whacked...

Yep, how dare you little girls stand up for yourselves, back in your boxes

[bots]

If she'd put her hands on him yes but she didn't so no

She still provoked a response. I mean if i went up to a guy in the street and used her approach, i would be playing the lottery on what happened next. Add booze into the equation and it will only get worse.

For sure we don't know all the context, particularly what went on before and where she would likely get a caution for aggressive behaviour he would get an assault charge. The 2 things are not like for like, but neither are in the category of civilised behaviour.

[Ammi]

...just to say I don’t have sympathies with the female as such because she wasn’t seriously harmed or worse ...but a verbally abusive situation could never be predicted to have the same possible outcomes as those punches he laid...they were very predictable in the possible outcome to those..whatever her verbal abuse and whatever the reasons leading up to etc...possibly giving someone life changing injuries or worse, taking a life...should never be a risk someone should take for having someone in their face like that...

...my every sympathy is with her friends and family if any ‘worsts’ had have happened...and also with her yeah...because what he did was not a ‘natural’ reaction in any way whatsoever that could find any level of understandability for me...

[Niamh.]

She still provoked a response. I mean if i went up to a guy in the street and used her approach, i would be playing the lottery on what happened next. Add booze into the equation and it will only get worse.

For sure we don't know all the context, particularly what went on before and where she would likely get a caution for aggressive behaviour he would get an assault charge. The 2 things are not like for like, but neither are in the category of civilised behaviour.

We don't know what had went on beforehand but logically speaking something went on beforehand to provoke her and make her angry, don't you think?

[bots]

We don't know what had went on beforehand but logically speaking something went on beforehand to provoke her and make her angry, don't you think?

logic would say so, but ive seen some situations that completely defy logic where a person can go completely off the plot for no reason at all. I've seen things like that happen when someone has spilled a drink for example, or bumped into someone by mistake :shrug:

[Niamh.]

logic would say so, but ive seen some situations that completely defy logic where a person can go completely off the plot for no reason at all. I've seen things like that happen when someone has spilled a drink for example, or bumped into someone by mistake :shrug:

Someone in the thread said he'd apparently been harassing her friend but I haven't seen a link for that

[RichardG]

Trying to drag someone to your way of thinking and make them conform to your way of thinking by continually pushing your opinion of what's right!

He explained him self and defended himself against but you just can't accept someone's else's opinion.

It's what you and others do!

You grow up and accept other members opinions

It's called a debate. People continue to argue their point and push their opinion until they decide to stop, or 'the time is up' so to speak if it were a public debate/the TIBB thread gets locked.

[Ammi]

...I have to say just reading the DM link about his mum giving his name to the police...he’s been her carer for many years due to her having a brain injury..(..ironic..)..and rarely goes out in the evening or has any personal time...by those words, it seems out of character to do what he did../...to react in that way...but there are still legal consequences to his action/reaction which he has to face now...and it could have been very worse in consequences had her injuries been what they could have been...

[Ammi]

...I don’t like the ‘thug’ label he has been given by the media and social sites but the boy did wrong in his reaction...in my opinion...

[Niamh.]

Of course as a woman she can't expect not to be hit, woman are raped, murdered and physically abused at the hands of their partners evey day of the week so it is ridiculous to claim that a woman feels safe due to her gender :unsure: she was verbally agressive yes but then we don't know what happened before hand to make her react in this way? I am assuming she didn't just waltz up to him and start verbally assaulting him, she was defending herself or someone else maybe not in a controlled way but I doubt reasoning with this guy in a calm manner would have elicted a different response.

Actually coming back to this Cherie, it reminded me of this quote from Margaret Atwood (she wrote The Handmaids Tale) -

"Why do men feel threatened by women?" I asked a male friend of mine
"I mean," I said, "men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power." "They're afraid women will laugh at them," he said. "Undercut their world view." Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, "Why do women feel threatened by men?" "They're afraid of being killed," they said.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Atwood

[Cherie]

Actually coming back to this Cherie, it reminded me of this quote from Margaret Atwood (she wrote The Handmaids Tale) -

"Why do men feel threatened by women?" I asked a male friend of mine
"I mean," I said, "men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power." "They're afraid women will laugh at them," he said. "Undercut their world view." Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, "Why do women feel threatened by men?" "They're afraid of being killed," they said.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Atwood

Great quote :love:

[Tom4784]

There's no excuse for violence in that situation. If someone is screaming in your face then you remove yourself from the situation. You don't respond by knocking them out, especially when it's not a violent situation to begin with. It would be a different story if she was attacking him but she wasn't.

[user104658]

Again, though, and still, people are confusing "understanding how a situation arises and escalates" with "justifying and making excuses".

No, there is no excuse for his actions, he shouldn't have touched her. Literally no one has said that he was right to hit her, let alone knock her out, under any circumstances.

But the problem is people saying that and then shouting "END OF STORY!" Hands over eyes, fingers in ears, la la la not listening everything about this situation was fine up until the punch was thrown.

But is it the end of the story? Not really. Because whilst in an ideal world, there wouldn't be violent people like this guy out there, there are. And like I said; if people go around confident that the world is as it should be, rather than how it is, they are putting themselves at risk.

"Hilarious" or otherwise, there are young women who do - especially when drunk - think that so long as there are "plenty of people around", they are safe from physical harm in a verbal confrontation. They are not. Evidently so. SHOULD they be safe? Of course, yes, but how much of what should happen in the world actually happens?

Stats from abusive / violent encounters and attacks in different situations are not really relevant here.

[Marsh.]

Trying to drag someone to your way of thinking and make them conform to your way of thinking by continually pushing your opinion of what's right!

He explained him self and defended himself against but you just can't accept someone's else's opinion.

It's what you and others do!

You grow up and accept other members opinions

We continue to reply to one another in a conversation/debate.

But I'm trying to force my opinion on him but... what's he doing?

You're pathetic. Try adding a post to the discussion instead of commenting on those actually debating the topic as you always do.

[Niamh.]

Again, though, and still, people are confusing "understanding how a situation arises and escalates" with "justifying and making excuses".

No, there is no excuse for his actions, he shouldn't have touched her. Literally no one has said that he was right to hit her, let alone knock her out, under any circumstances.

But the problem is people saying that and then shouting "END OF STORY!" Hands over eyes, fingers in ears, la la la not listening everything about this situation was fine up until the punch was thrown.

But is it the end of the story? Not really. Because whilst in an ideal world, there wouldn't be violent people like this guy out there, there are. And like I said; if people go around confident that the world is as it should be, rather than how it is, they are putting themselves at risk.

"Hilarious" or otherwise, there are young women who do - especially when drunk - think that so long as there are "plenty of people around", they are safe from physical harm in a verbal confrontation. They are not. Evidently so. SHOULD they be safe? Of course, yes, but how much of what should happen in the world actually happens?

Stats from abusive / violent encounters and attacks in different situations are not really relevant here.

Maybe people shouldn't wear jewelry or carry money ever because if they get mugged I can understand how that situation arose, I mean they were wearing an expensive watch, there shouldn't be muggers in this world but there are so people should stop teasing them by having money and expensive stuff on them

[user104658]

Maybe people shouldn't wear jewelry or carry money ever because if they get mugged I can understand how that situation arose, I mean they were wearing an expensive watch, there shouldn't be muggers in this world but there are so people should stop teasing them by having money and expensive stuff on them

You can be passive aggressive and flippant about it all day but it's not really helpful, nor is it a debate? By using the word "teasing" you're still replying as though anyone has tried to defend or justify the guy's actions or has suggested that he shouldn't be arrested and charged with serious assault, which literally no one has.

Also... Yes... Walking around at night flashing a handful of cash or an expensive watch WOULD be potentially dangerous? Advising caution isn't victim blaming.

A pretty basic example; I don't leave cash / my phone / etc. sitting on the counter when I move away from it. Because people can (and do) lean over the counter to steal. It's happened to several people I know. If I left my phone there and it was stolen... Would it be my fault? No. Would it stop the person who stole it from being a thieving scumbag? Would it mean they shouldn't be charged? Or that I wouldn't be angry? No, no and no.

None of that means that precautions shouldn't be taken or that those things won't happen because they shouldn't happen.

Or,

No one walks home alone through a notoriously bad area of town and doing so is pretty reckless. No one starts crying foul when people advise others not to do it, though, do they?

Etc. etc. etc.

So likewise, telling people clearly: if you get into a drunken verbal confrontation, you might get punched in the head.

Is true, valid, and sensible. It's good advice for everyone. It's not excusing violence.

[Niamh.]

You can be passive aggressive and flippant about it all day but it's not really helpful, nor is it a debate? By using the word "teasing" you're still replying as though anyone has tried to defend or justify the guy's actions or has suggested that he shouldn't be arrested and charged with serious assault, which literally no one has.

Also... Yes... Walking around at night flashing a handful of cash or an expensive watch WOULD be potentially dangerous? Advising caution isn't victim blaming.

A pretty basic example; I don't leave cash / my phone / etc. sitting on the counter when I move away from it. Because people can (and do) lean over the counter to steal. It's happened to several people I know. If I left my phone there and it was stolen... Would it be my fault? No. Would it stop the person who stole it from being a thieving scumbag? Would it mean they shouldn't be charged? Or that I wouldn't be angry? No, no and no.

None of that means that precautions shouldn't be taken or that those things won't happen because they shouldn't happen.

Or,

No one walks home alone through a notoriously bad area of town and doing so is pretty reckless. No one starts crying foul when people advise others not to do it, though, do they?

Etc. etc. etc.

So likewise, telling people clearly: if you get into a drunken verbal confrontation, you might get punched in the head.

Is true, valid, and sensible. It's good advice for everyone. It's not excusing violence.

Women get blamed for being victims of crimes, men very very rarely do. Fact.

[Niamh.]

You can be passive aggressive and flippant about it all day but it's not really helpful, nor is it a debate? By using the word "teasing" you're still replying as though anyone has tried to defend or justify the guy's actions or has suggested that he shouldn't be arrested and charged with serious assault, which literally no one has.

Also... Yes... Walking around at night flashing a handful of cash or an expensive watch WOULD be potentially dangerous? Advising caution isn't victim blaming.

A pretty basic example; I don't leave cash / my phone / etc. sitting on the counter when I move away from it. Because people can (and do) lean over the counter to steal. It's happened to several people I know. If I left my phone there and it was stolen... Would it be my fault? No. Would it stop the person who stole it from being a thieving scumbag? Would it mean they shouldn't be charged? Or that I wouldn't be angry? No, no and no.

None of that means that precautions shouldn't be taken or that those things won't happen because they shouldn't happen.

Or,

No one walks home alone through a notoriously bad area of town and doing so is pretty reckless. No one starts crying foul when people advise others not to do it, though, do they?

Etc. etc. etc.

So likewise, telling people clearly: if you get into a drunken verbal confrontation, you might get punched in the head.

Is true, valid, and sensible. It's good advice for everyone. It's not excusing violence.

Also, Mr. patronising, I was being sarcastic not passive aggressive

[thesheriff443]

We continue to reply to one another in a conversation/debate.

But I'm trying to force my opinion on him but... what's he doing?

You're pathetic. Try adding a post to the discussion instead of commenting on those actually debating the topic as you always do.

Get a bloody life instead of trolling this forum for a conversation, no wait argument.

People don't post because if you don't act like a nodding dog you are made to feel like you just killed the family pet.

You ain't interested in anyone's opinion only your own and how your sense of right from wrong is worth more than any one else's.

Stop calling what I can and can't say on here.

[user104658]

Women get blamed for being victims of crimes, men very very rarely do. Fact.Maybe. When it comes to serious crime. For petty crime I don't think "very, very rarely" is accurate at all to be honest and I would need to see some sort of statistic to back that up? People get blamed all the time when it comes to things like theft and minor assault and its not gender specific at all? Called an idiot for leaving a car unlocked / parking in a bad neighbourhood... Told they had it coming when they get hit... Etc... Happens to both males and females all the time? I mean, "talk **** get hit" is an actual saying, and it's not aimed at women or men specifically?

But again what does this have to do with anything that has been said in this thread? Where has anyone said that that's not the case? And for the third time; who is blaming the victim on this thread. Literally EVERYONE has stated that his actions were criminal and were not justified. Any attempt to say that there's victim blaming going on here is just straight up false :shrug:.

(Also, not to be patronising further, but sarcasm *is* passive-aggressive so...)

[Niamh.]

Maybe. When it comes to serious crime. For petty crime I don't think "very, very rarely" is accurate at all to be honest and I would need to see some sort of statistic to back that up? People get blamed all the time when it comes to things like theft and minor assault and its not gender specific at all? Called an idiot for leaving a car unlocked / parking in a bad neighbourhood... Told they had it coming when they get hit... Etc... Happens to both males and females all the time? I mean, "talk **** get hit" is an actual saying, and it's not aimed at women or men specifically?

But again what does this have to do with anything that has been said in this thread? Where has anyone said that that's not the case? And for the third time; who is blaming the victim on this thread. Literally EVERYONE has stated that his actions were criminal and were not justified. Any attempt to say that there's victim blaming going on here is just straight up false :shrug:.

(Also, not to be patronising further, but sarcasm *is* passive-aggressive so...)

No it isn't.

[Niamh.]

Maybe. When it comes to serious crime. For petty crime I don't think "very, very rarely" is accurate at all to be honest and I would need to see some sort of statistic to back that up? People get blamed all the time when it comes to things like theft and minor assault and its not gender specific at all? Called an idiot for leaving a car unlocked / parking in a bad neighbourhood... Told they had it coming when they get hit... Etc... Happens to both males and females all the time? I mean, "talk **** get hit" is an actual saying, and it's not aimed at women or men specifically?

But again what does this have to do with anything that has been said in this thread? Where has anyone said that that's not the case? And for the third time; who is blaming the victim on this thread. Literally EVERYONE has stated that his actions were criminal and were not justified. Any attempt to say that there's victim blaming going on here is just straight up false :shrug:.

(Also, not to be patronising further, but sarcasm *is* passive-aggressive so...)

Yes the person committing the crime always gets a mention in a - I mean obviously the rapist is bad but........... kind of a way, same story here in this thread

[kirklancaster]

I have always stated on here that we all have a circle of space around us and that anyone 'intimately' stepping into that circle should do so only by 'invitation', otherwise, they are 'invading' that personal space.

I have also stated that when someone invades my personal space in an 'aggressive' manner, then they bear culpability for anything which should subsequently develop.

If I am punched, I will punch back, or if they 'telegraph' the incoming punch I will land mine first.

If the aggressor comes off worse and subsequently suffers a broken jaw or other serious injuries as a consequence of him starting the trouble, then I won't lose any sleep over it.

However, in the case of a woman - no matter how 'mouthy', aggressive, or physically violent she may be - there ARE other, more ACCEPTABLE options of self-defence than punching her; by using my masculine superior strength to take a hold of her arms and 'wrap her up' to stop her throwing punches or clawing, for example.

It is not too difficult either for the average male to restrict her legs at the same time to stop her from kicking.

There certainly ARE times when knocking a female aggressor out CAN be justified; if she is armed with a knife or cosh and attacking you for example - self-preservation of life ALWAYS takes precedence over moral concerns.

However, in the context of the video above, the guy delivering the punches is most definitely Bang-Out-Of-Order.

No matter WHAT transpired prior to what is seen in the video, he could have restrained that girl without actually physically harming her, and though she 'invaded' his personal space in an aggressive manner, she did NOT ever attempt to throw a punch or physically attack him and he cannot claim 'Self-Defence' because his punches were the first and ONLY ones thrown.

In addition, any 'perceived threat' on his part that she 'might have attacked him' is ridiculous given her weight, strength, and size disadvantage and the fact that she is a woman - let alone the fact that NOTHING in that video supports any claim that she was about to start throwing punches at him.

Disgusting and bang-out-of-order.

In my opinion, of course.

[Marsh.]

Get a bloody life instead of trolling this forum for a conversation, no wait argument.

People don't post because if you don't act like a nodding dog you are made to feel like you just killed the family pet.

You ain't interested in anyone's opinion only your own and how your sense of right from wrong is worth more than any one else's.

Stop calling what I can and can't say on here.

Oh dear, seems you need to look up the definition of "debate" love.

Maybe get a life instead of being obsessed with other posters and not actually getting involved in the topic?

The irony of you calling me a troll when it was YOU who came into the thread to get personal. Go away.

[user104658]

Yes the person committing the crime always gets a mention in a - I mean obviously the rapist is bad but........... kind of a way, same story here in this thread

Well I suppose it depends on whether or not people are looking for a debate forum, or a forum for tooth-gnashing and outrage. But I thought we already had Facebook for that.

Attempting to understand crime is not victim blaming, is not justifying crime, and is not an attempt to vindicate the perpetrator.

I understand that people find it difficult to comprehend that in situations that anger them on a personal level.

I really don't have anything more to say about it than that.

[Niamh.]

Well I suppose it depends on whether or not people are looking for a debate forum, or a forum for tooth-gnashing and outrage. But I thought we already had Facebook for that.

Attempting to understand crime is not victim blaming, is not justifying crime, and is not an attempt to vindicate the perpetrator.

I understand that people find it difficult to comprehend that in situations that anger them on a personal level.

I really don't have anything more to say about it than that.

I have strong feelings on these topics yes, so why would I not comment on these stories and disagree with posts that I disagree with. Incidentally I don't really post on FB stories like this if that was supposed to be some sort passive aggressive dig at me? I don't know.

[Ammi]

You can be passive aggressive and flippant about it all day but it's not really helpful, nor is it a debate? By using the word "teasing" you're still replying as though anyone has tried to defend or justify the guy's actions or has suggested that he shouldn't be arrested and charged with serious assault, which literally no one has.

Also... Yes... Walking around at night flashing a handful of cash or an expensive watch WOULD be potentially dangerous? Advising caution isn't victim blaming.

A pretty basic example; I don't leave cash / my phone / etc. sitting on the counter when I move away from it. Because people can (and do) lean over the counter to steal. It's happened to several people I know. If I left my phone there and it was stolen... Would it be my fault? No. Would it stop the person who stole it from being a thieving scumbag? Would it mean they shouldn't be charged? Or that I wouldn't be angry? No, no and no.

None of that means that precautions shouldn't be taken or that those things won't happen because they shouldn't happen.

Or,

No one walks home alone through a notoriously bad area of town and doing so is pretty reckless. No one starts crying foul when people advise others not to do it, though, do they?

Etc. etc. etc.

So likewise, telling people clearly: if you get into a drunken verbal confrontation, you might get punched in the head.

Is true, valid, and sensible. It's good advice for everyone. It's not excusing violence.

...in an ideal/perfect world though, TS...no one would get drunk which might contribute to a verbal confrontation happening but it isn’t a perfect world and tha5 having happened in this case for whatever reasons which led to it...?...it’s still not sound reasoning to think punch blows will be laid on you to have you fall to the ground like that ...leaving a wallet or phone lying on the counter or in view like that...then it wouldn’t be a sound and reasoned thing to do...there is a difference...

[user104658]

I have strong feelings on these topics yes, so why would I not comment on these stories and disagree with posts that I disagree with. Incidentally I don't really post on FB stories like this if that was supposed to be some sort passive aggressive dig at me? I don't know.There's disagreeing and then there's attempting to smear anyone who thinks that there's a discussion to be had with accusations of victim blaming, etc., when there is no evidence at all of victim blaming and in fact multiple (repeatedly ignored) examples of everyone agreeing that what the attacker did was completely wrong.

Its a debate and discussion forum, if people want to just say "oh god this is awful!" and leave it at that, that's fine, but attempting to insist that other people "shouldn't" believe there's further discussion / debate to be had, or that wanting to discuss it further and not just accepting it as "JUST BAD END OF STORY" is somehow a bad person / doesn't care about victims of assault / blatantly implying misogyny... Well... I wouldn't say that's particularly healthy on a debate forum.

[Niamh.]

There's disagreeing and then there's attempting to smear anyone who thinks that there's a discussion to be had with accusations of victim blaming, etc., when there is no evidence at all of victim blaming and in fact multiple (repeatedly ignored) examples of everyone agreeing that what the attacker did was completely wrong.

Its a debate and discussion forum, if people want to just say "oh god this is awful!" and leave it at that, that's fine, but attempting to insist that other people "shouldn't" believe there's further discussion / debate to be had, or that wanting to discuss it further and not just accepting it as "JUST BAD END OF STORY" is somehow a bad person / doesn't care about victims of assault / blatantly implying misogyny... Well... I wouldn't say that's particularly healthy on a debate forum.

So basically you're telling me that because you believe that there is no evidence of victim blaming in this thread that I should just say OK and move on despite me feeling that yes some people on here are victim blaming? That doesn't sound fair. I disagree with you that people aren't victim blaming. That is what I'd like to contribute to this thread

[user104658]

So basically you're telling me that because you believe that there is no evidence of victim blaming in this thread that I should just say OK and move on despite me feeling that yes some people on here are victim blaming? That doesn't sound fair. I disagree with you that people aren't victim blaming. That is what I'd like to contribute to this threadFair enough, but for it to be worth engaging with you should surely quote and discuss some actual examples of victim blaming instead of just standing on a soapbox shouting "Victim blaming!!"

I'd also add that if you can't do it calmly it isn't worth much anyway, but again, that's personal opinion. There's not a lot of point in debating angry. But then again, there's not a lot of point in debating against someone who is incredulous. So I guess I should take my own advice :shrug:.

[Amy Jade]

People are seriously blaming the woman?

She was defending another girl the guy had been harrasing inside the club. Anyone defending him ask yourself this, had his second punch not resulted in her falling over knocked out how far would this guy have gone?

[user104658]

People are seriously blaming the woman?

No.

[JoshBB]

oml I saw this on someone's Snapchat story, nice to see my hometown goin viral for all the right reasons.............. LMAO

[Northern Monkey]

TS is right.As far as i can make out.Nobody is blaming the victim.Some people are saying maybe it’s not a sensible idea to get up into some arsehole who seems to have no morals or apprehension towards slugging a woman’s face.
The dickhead who hit her is 100% to blame for his own actions so probably the best thing to do is not approach him.Specially if he was already showing worrying behaviour inside the club.
Ever hear on Crimewatch “Do not approach this man as he is known to be dangerous”?
He was well out of order and nobody man or especially smaller woman should expect to get twatted.I know what it’s like as it’s happened to me on a couple of occasions.Once with a glass and all totally unprovoked.But just maybe she could have made a better decision also?
Or is that non debatable?

[Cherie]

It's easy to say walk away, and in an ideal world we all would but what if she walked away and he kept harrassing her, is she supposed to let him bully and harrass her without comment?

[Maru]

It's interesting that she gets pegged the first time, she still moves back into position to confront him verbally and aggressively. People don't do that if they feel scared. They may do that if they are emboldened, but it's possible she was thrown off guard by the first hit.

Also looking at the video, her right elbow is up with her hand getting closer to his face and it looks like her hand touches chest (over his heart), literally right before he bops her. Hard to tell conclusively as it's a pretty quick blur in the video, but I would lean towards she at least having tapped his chest with her finger, which could be enough to constitute assault. It still wasn't at the level that warranted him hitting her back, but I think a fair assessment to say she instigated things a little bit there.

My thought on what happened, she pushed the envelope by provoking him up to that point before and during the video and with her moving in towards him, assertive body language and getting in his face, maybe tapping his chest, he saw it as a "license" then to hit her... it's a dubious defense on its own, but consider maybe he thought if he had escalated the situation with the victim, she would then fight back in kind and it would be make them both willing participants... but instead, he ended up knocking her out, putting him in deeper hot water imo as it will be no question how much intention he had with the strength behind the punch... even if she were guilty of tapping him and making terroristic threats, he can't then claim he was simply defending himself in that matter, not with the way he locked eyes and encouraged the situation.

Dash is correct that assault doesn't require physical contact if there is a threat, i.e., waving a baseball bat at someone, etc. Battery is when actual contact is involved. However, he didn't appear in the video to be in the process of trying to deescalate the threat either. Instead he quite obviously locked eyes with her and seemed more emboldened than threatened. He had a few seconds to think about walking away, to try to move away from her, to put his hands up, to show some resistance or a sign of wanting to leave the confrontation, but absent these actions appear and direct eye contact (sign of aggression) appear to say the opposite...

This video really reminds me of the Ray Rice dilemma (NFL player). The victim ends up later going on TV and having interviews where she basically OK's his behavior... so yeah, I can understand where people are sensitive about making it out as if the victim played a part in enabling the situation, but law enforcement and a judge would hear the details of witnesses and consider the role each played, body language, witness impressions, etc... I think in the case of Ray Rice and his fiance (now his wife :skull:), they were both drunk, so that did play a strong role I think... but even adding in alcohol, that doesn't then enable him to hit her... which is another common scapegoat for domestic violence and bar fights, etc...

Disgusting? Horrible? Criminal? What’s your adjective? They’re all right when it comes to this one.

After TMZ released video of then Ray Rice’s girlfriend, now Ray Rice’s wife Janay Rice getting a vicious left hook to the face, the world exploded and demanded responsibility be taken. The NFL and Baltimore Ravens denied having ever seen the video before the TMZ footage went public, but took steps, albeit late steps, to rectify the situation.

The Baltimore Ravens cut him.
The NFL has suspended him indefinitely.

The Atlantic City DA still seems content with the agreed plea deal to Pre Trial Intervention, which in light of the video seems increasingly egregious. The world is happy to see the punishment meted out to Rice, but it seems like an afterthought to know how Rice’s wife Janay is doing through this.

While cutting Rice was almost the only possible outcome, let’s not forget how the Ravens initially tackled this one. During the farce of a press conference put on by the ever-classless Ravens organization (how’s that Ray Lewis statue doing?), the Ravens were sure to Tweet out, “Janay Rice deeply regrets the role that she played in the night of the incident.” While the Tweet was removed, the Ravens can rest peacefully knowing that we all know the victim is sorry for getting her face in the way.

qkAiDoIc1I4

[michael21]

It's news this morning, his Mum handed him in :clap1:

This is good news :cheer2: