Fantastic Beasts 2: Backlash as Nagini twist is branded 'racist'

[Tom4784]

Nagini is a Maledictus, meaning she’s inflicted with a blood curse that lets her transform between human and snake at will - but at some point, as Harry Potter readers and viewers will know, she will become a snake permanently.

Not only that, but by the time the original Harry Potter timeline kicks in, Nagini is essentially Lord Voldemort’s villainous pet - and Horcrux.

The casting of Kim has been labelled “racially insensitive” by some fans; owing to the fact that she’s one of very few Asian women to be cast in a lead role in the franchise - and it’s a character who becomes the villain’s evil pet.

Author Ellen Oh explained on Twitter: “It's okay to love problematic things. I'll be the first to say that the Harry Potter series made me want to write children's books.

“But let's also talk about the problems. This feels like a problem.

“I feel like this is the problem when white people want to diversify and don't actually ask POC [people of colour] how to do so.

“They don't make the connection between making Nagini an Asian woman who later on is the pet of a white man.

“So I'm going to say it right now. That s**t is racist.”

Writer Gavia Baker-Whitelaw posted: “maybe ‘circus performer who turns into a murderous snake’ isn't the best choice of role for one of the two WOC in the franchise.”

And artist Hyein Jeon wrote: “There are only two Asian women in Harry Potter franchise, Cho Chang and now NAGINI?

“Not to mention Cho Chang as an Asian character's name is extremely lazy and funny (It's basically two [surnames] combined) and considering how Cho was used as a character.... This is REALLY BAD.”

Yesterday Kim herself spoke out in an interview about Nagini’s character.
“You’ve only seen her as a Horcrux. In this, she’s a wonderful and vulnerable woman who wants to live,” she told Entertainment Weekly.

“She wants to stay a human being and I think that’s a wonderful contrast to the character.”

Nagini - after long being a full-time snake - is ultimately killed by Neville Longbottom towards the end of the Harry Potter series.

Yesterday's reveal also drew plenty of excitement as the final trailer landed online ahead of the release in two months' time.

The movie stars the likes of Eddie Redmayne, Katherine Waterston, Dan Fogler, Alison Sudol, Ezra Miller, with Jude Law and Johnny Depp.

Zoë Kravitz, Callum Turner, Claudia Kim, William Nadylam, Kevin Guthrie, Carmen Ejogo, and Poppy Corby-Tuech also appear.

Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald is out on November 16.

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1022922/Fantastic-Beasts-2-Nagini-racist-backlash-Claudia-Kim-Crimes-of-Grindelwald

A ridiculous outrage for the sake of outrage, hypocritical too since I doubt the likes of Ellen Oh would have spoken out had it been a character of a different ethnicity.

It's just another case of people being outraged without knowing the context (Read: Insatiable) and it only cheapens the cause and weakens it which is annoying in itself since it's these people who desperately want to be outraged that damages the message because they need to lash out and shame people. Pathetic.

[Smithy]

The more of the article I read, the more I was like, am I reading this right? Is this a joke :skull:

[Northern Monkey]

Everything’s ‘problematic’ or ‘racist’ these days

[Daniel.]

So embarrassing

[Maru]

Everything’s ‘problematic’ or ‘racist’ these days

For example, this post is soo problematic :fist:

Because truth

[Elliot]

What a scream

[Lostie!]

Nagini used to be human??

[Oliver_W]

People will whinge about anything these days..

Though if the transformations are at will, how is it a)different from being a snake Animagus and b)a "curse" ?

[Glenn.]

It’s hilarious and extremely sad

[Glenn.]

People will whinge about anything these days..

Though if the transformations are at will, how is it a)different from being a snake Animagus and b)a "curse" ?

It’s a blood curse. Eventually she knows she will be a snake forever.

[Northern Monkey]

For example, this post is soo problematic :fist:

Because truth

You could find racism in literally anything if you’re looking for it..

Hell you can see unicorns in the clouds if you stare at them long enough

[Macie Lightfoot]

I mean whether or not it's racist or insensitive, it's ****ing stupid and it feels like a hilarious parody or Rowling retcon. Almost as dumb as the entirety of Cursed Child <3

[Jordan.]

The same people outraged over this would have been just as outraged if a white actress was given the role over her so

[Macie Lightfoot]

Also just bc I can't resist

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[LaLaLand]

"Reaching" tbh.

[AnnieK]

Good grief.....even Harry Potter is no longer sacred.

Ridiculous reaching......

[MB.]

Also just bc I can't resist

774220103005016064

I think my favourite of these is an Onion article in which JK Rowling completely oversteps her mark by announcing that Daenerys from Game of Thrones has Chrohn's disease

[Greg!]

Screaming, the people complaining are an embarrassment to the current generation

[Wizard.]

Umm I’m so outraged that Voldemort didn’t have a nose cause it just doesn’t represent people who’s noses have collapsed because of cocaine abuse and that problematic!

[Marsh.]

1044907311058358273

:flutter:

Shuts them down so eloquently!

[Marsh.]

People will whinge about anything these days..

Though if the transformations are at will, how is it a)different from being a snake Animagus and b)a "curse" ?

It's not at will, it's a slow transformation into a beast. Hence, by the time of the Harry Potter stories Nagini is in snake form only.

It's a curse because you have no control over it and are born with it.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Umm I’m so outraged that Voldemort didn’t have a nose cause it just doesn’t represent people who’s noses have collapsed because of cocaine abuse and that problematic!

I mean I think it's totally possible to enjoy Harry Potter as a franchise while also recognizing that it's a bunch of straight white cis bull**** and acknowledging that JK Rowling is hilariously awful at this point with her absurd retconning to appeal to the left. Like "Lupin being a werewolf is actually an extended metaphor for the HIV/AIDS" crisis is a laughably stupid point to throw out there in 2016, but then it's also kinda offensive when you're comparing AIDS to a condition where you lose control of your body and start attacking people once a month, and then it's even more offensive when you consider that Greyback was a werewolf and also pretty much a child predator.

[Ammi]

Nagini used to be human??

...u WOT mate..??...

[Oliver_W]

It's not at will, it's a slow transformation into a beast. Hence, by the time of the Harry Potter stories Nagini is in snake form only.

It's a curse because you have no control over it and are born with it.
v
Nagini is a Maledictus, meaning she’s inflicted with a blood curse that lets her transform between human and snake at will - but at some point, as Harry Potter readers and viewers will know, she will become a snake permanently.

[Elliot]

I mean I think it's totally possible to enjoy Harry Potter as a franchise while also recognizing that it's a bunch of straight white cis bull**** and acknowledging that JK Rowling is hilariously awful at this point with her absurd retconning to appeal to the left. Like "Lupin being a werewolf is actually an extended metaphor for the HIV/AIDS" crisis is a laughably stupid point to throw out there in 2016, but then it's also kinda offensive when you're comparing AIDS to a condition where you lose control of your body and start attacking people once a month, and then it's even more offensive when you consider that Greyback was a werewolf and also pretty much a child predator.

NOT straight white cis bull****

[Crimson Dynamo]

Didnt Snape get fingered in Operation Yewtree?

[user104658]

They'd have kicked off if it was a white female. Or a non-white male. Basically Nagini had to be a white male or else everyone would have kicked off.

Except then they'd have kicked off because they cast another white male. :think:


Then again, it's a ****ing daft twist anyway and everything outside of the main Harry Potter series canon is cash-cow trash.. so...

[user104658]

Didnt Snape get fingered in Operation Yewtree?

It was in "The Half-Blood Prince", I think.

[Wizard.]

I mean I think it's totally possible to enjoy Harry Potter as a franchise while also recognizing that it's a bunch of straight white cis bull**** and acknowledging that JK Rowling is hilariously awful at this point with her absurd retconning to appeal to the left. Like "Lupin being a werewolf is actually an extended metaphor for the HIV/AIDS" crisis is a laughably stupid point to throw out there in 2016, but then it's also kinda offensive when you're comparing AIDS to a condition where you lose control of your body and start attacking people once a month, and then it's even more offensive when you consider that Greyback was a werewolf and also pretty much a child predator.

mess did she really say that? :skull:

[user104658]

Rowling is hardly the first person to use Werewolves / Vampires as an STI metaphor, though, so I don't know why the focus is so much on that (well, rather, I do; the huge commercial success and visibility of the series... but she's far from the first).

Aspects of Vampire mythology come ENTIRELY from the fear of sexually transmitted infections such as syphilis / other blood-borne disease.

[Oliver_W]

They'd have kicked off if it was a white female. Or a non-white male. Basically Nagini had to be a white male or else everyone would have kicked off.

Except then they'd have kicked off because they cast another white male. :think:

Then again, it's a ****ing daft twist anyway and everything outside of the main Harry Potter series canon is cash-cow trash.. so...


But then they'd whinge it's transphobic, as Nagini is referred to as female in the books.

[Glenn.]

I’ve read Harry Potter start to finish, back to front and never considered Nagini to even be a slave to Voldemort. There was always a fondness towards her and besides, you wouldn’t put a piece of your soul in a servant. People are just moaning for the sake of moaning.

[user104658]

I’ve read Harry Potter start to finish, back to front and never considered Nagini to even be a slave to Voldemort. There was always a fondness towards her and besides, you wouldn’t put a piece of your soul in a servant. People are just moaning for the sake of moaning.

True; she was the closest thing to an "equal" or "friend" he had (in his mind)... so really, it's a good thing? :think:

[JoshBB]

Absolute idiocy. Seems like a desperate attempt to be fake woke, when actually there's no racism here.

People bang on about representation and when they get it, they moan. Smh

[Oliver_W]

Xg5CQjs9rKM
Oh gods, now this mess is sticking her oar in, I think that's a pretty big flag the arguments are just stupid.

[Marsh.]

v

The last part answers your question. The difference is her control over it is brief and she will become the beast permanently.

[y.winter]

The Malfoy Family and Voldemort are whiter than white and are the epitome of the Slytherin house - villains, snakes, all of that.
Is this a bloody joke? :facepalm:

[Marsh.]

I mean I think it's totally possible to enjoy Harry Potter as a franchise while also recognizing that it's a bunch of straight white cis bull**** and acknowledging that JK Rowling is hilariously awful at this point with her absurd retconning to appeal to the left. Like "Lupin being a werewolf is actually an extended metaphor for the HIV/AIDS" crisis is a laughably stupid point to throw out there in 2016, but then it's also kinda offensive when you're comparing AIDS to a condition where you lose control of your body and start attacking people once a month, and then it's even more offensive when you consider that Greyback was a werewolf and also pretty much a child predator.

Straight cis white?

The most bullsh*t is coming from people who think every story/series/franchise must have a representative for every bloody person on the planet, which is impossible. No matter what diverse group of people JK chose to write about there would be someone somewhere criticising her for leaving them out, so I guess unless writers can include everyone they should just stop writing.

FYI, you're taking the HIV comparison far too literally. The only comparison that was made was that the blood disease suffered in the universe of the stories creates a stigma around wizards in a similar way to what HIV/AIDs does/did to a person in the real world. And that comparison was first made a long time ago.
To take that and say "Oooh, she's calling AIDS sufferers werewolves" is ridiculous hysteria on your part.

Like the comparisons always drawn between Voldemort and his hatred of Muggles with that of Hitler and the Jews have been around since the books were first released. She's not making a literal comparison.

[y.winter]

Thinking about it, suggesting that it's racist is even more racist.

[Marsh.]

Xg5CQjs9rKM

I've had to switch off with the bullsh*t comments about Dumbledore at the beginning.

His relationship with Grinelwald isn't addressed in the new movie, because they don't actually share any scenes and their relationship isn't the focal point of the story. BUT it will be in a future instalment. This is only part 2 of a 5 part franchise.

But, hey, don't let that get in the way of people making ridiculously hysterical youtube videos.

Also, "You can have people of colour as villains but you should have people of colour as good people too!" Erm, there are at least two POC protagonists too.

Edit - Also, why is this white woman getting defensive on behalf of Asians?

[Marsh.]

This is what BUGS me about stuff like this.

EVERYTHING must be EVERYTHING and do ANYTHING for EVERYONE at ALL TIMES or you're an ism or a phobe. :laugh2:

[Lostie!]

I always knew Neville Longbottom was racist.

[Marsh.]

She just accused her of being transphobic now for saying the "Maledictus curse only affects women" which would include trans-men who were born women.

I AM DONE! :laugh3:

[user104658]

I always knew Neville Longbottom was racist.

It's the teeth. He uses them to chomp down on the jugulars of ethnic minority snakes.

[user104658]

This is what BUGS me about stuff like this.

EVERYTHING must be EVERYTHING and do ANYTHING for EVERYONE at ALL TIMES or you're an ism or a phobe. :laugh2:

Why are you being so racist about oppressed people Marsh? White. Male. Asexual. TiBB Most Loved winner. You have it all and you think you can talk about oppression?

[Marsh.]

Why are you being so racist about oppressed people Marsh? White. Male. Asexual. TiBB Most Loved winner. You have it all and you think you can talk about oppression?

Don't oppress my lack of oppression. :nono:

[Macie Lightfoot]

Straight cis white?

The most bullsh*t is coming from people who think every story/series/franchise must have a representative for every bloody person on the planet, which is impossible. No matter what diverse group of people JK chose to write about there would be someone somewhere criticising her for leaving them out, so I guess unless writers can include everyone they should just stop writing.

FYI, you're taking the HIV comparison far too literally. The only comparison that was made was that the blood disease suffered in the universe of the stories creates a stigma around wizards in a similar way to what HIV/AIDs does/did to a person in the real world. And that comparison was first made a long time ago.
To take that and say "Oooh, she's calling AIDS sufferers werewolves" is ridiculous hysteria on your part.

Like the comparisons always drawn between Voldemort and his hatred of Muggles with that of Hitler and the Jews have been around since the books were first released. She's not making a literal comparison.

My point isn't so much "Rowling is a homophobe bc she compared being a werewolf to being gay," it's more that "Rowling's constant attempts to keep HP in the spotlight through absurd retconning is kinda really stupid and often times not a good look." Like the idea that she was holding onto this information for 20 years ago how Nagini *really* was an Asian woman all along is laughably absurd. Like I can't wait until there's a Pottermore update in 2021 where we learn that Viktor Krum sat down for the Bulgarian national anthem at the Quidditch World Cup.

[Glenn.]

Do I believe JK knew this about Nagini from the beginning? Yes. She is and was absurdly thorough when planning this story. You would have to be, as it’s a complex story.

[Marsh.]

My point isn't so much "Rowling is a homophobe bc she compared being a werewolf to being gay," it's more that "Rowling's constant attempts to keep HP in the spotlight through absurd retconning is kinda really stupid and often times not a good look." Like the idea that she was holding onto this information for 20 years ago how Nagini *really* was an Asian woman all along is laughably absurd. Like I can't wait until there's a Pottermore update in 2021 where we learn that Viktor Krum sat down for the Bulgarian national anthem at the Quidditch World Cup.

"Keep HP in the spotlight" Well, Fantastic Beasts is a new series of movies so she's hardly not going to discuss it all more is she?

The HIV/Lycanthropy comparison is not a retcon, it's a comparison and one that was made a very long time ago. Much like the Nazi parallels. It changes nothing.

What's laughably absurd about the Nagini twist? Whether she did think of it 20 years ago or not it's hardly like saying Harry was a young version of Dumbledore all along and radically changes the entire plot. In fact, it changes very little of the plot. Or is it laughably absurd because it's a woman becoming a snake? In which case.... erm, it's Harry Potter. Professor McGonagall turns into a cat. Fantasy fiction tends to be outlandish. :shrug:

The woman in the video above seems to have confused herself over how and why this casting is "racist" but didn't think to get her argument in order before spouting off on youtube.

[user104658]

it’s a complex story.

Is it? I won't argue that Rowling's world-building is exceptional. Her writing (especially dialogue) technically isn't "amazing", but the universe she's crafted is... however, the story itself is a relatively simple one?

[Marsh.]

Do I believe JK knew this about Nagini from the beginning? Yes. She is and was absurdly thorough when planning this story. You would have to be, as it’s a complex story.

Tbh I do too. I remember all of the interviews she used to give between each book and the old website she used to update with trivia and you could submit questions for her to answer. She had amassed a ridiculous amount of detail in the backstory she created whilst writing the HP books.

[Marsh.]

Is it? I won't argue that Rowling's world-building is exceptional. Her writing (especially dialogue) technically isn't "amazing", but the universe she's crafted is... however, the story itself is a relatively simple one?

I think he means what you mean. The world building is a large percentage of the story. That unfolds and has an effect on the plot as much as Harry and the other main characters.

[Wizard.]

Oh ffs can we just go back to the 90’s when things weren’t so complicated

[Marsh.]

Also, if I hear the word "woke" one more time.

People are so self involved these days.

[user104658]

Also, if I hear the word "woke" one more time.

People are so self involved these days.

You only fink that coz you aint woke bruv.

[Tom4784]

I've had to switch off with the bullsh*t comments about Dumbledore at the beginning.

His relationship with Grinelwald isn't addressed in the new movie, because they don't actually share any scenes and their relationship isn't the focal point of the story. BUT it will be in a future instalment. This is only part 2 of a 5 part franchise.

But, hey, don't let that get in the way of people making ridiculously hysterical youtube videos.

Also, "You can have people of colour as villains but you should have people of colour as good people too!" Erm, there are at least two POC protagonists too.

Edit - Also, why is this white woman getting defensive on behalf of Asians?

Because she's mad that, as a white person, she can't really be a victim of racism so she'll take on the causes of other races whether they like it or not!

[Macie Lightfoot]

What's laughably absurd about the Nagini twist? Whether she did think of it 20 years ago or not it's hardly like saying Harry was a young version of Dumbledore all along and radically changes the entire plot. In fact, it changes very little of the plot. Or is it laughably absurd because it's a woman becoming a snake? In which case.... erm, it's Harry Potter. Professor McGonagall turns into a cat. Fantasy fiction tends to be outlandish. :shrug:

It's absurd because it sounds like a parody of a Rowling retcon more than anything, and once again it just reeks of her casting a person of color into a largely meaningless role just so she can say there's representation. Like, I think the idea that "An Asian woman is a submissive servant to a supervillain, THAT'S RACIST," whether you think it's right or wrong, it's a gross oversimplification of what the real issue is with Rowling's new age antics. It's more that she's acting like the entire culture of the world can bend itself to her storytelling needs. And, like, I'm saying this as someone who is still a fan of the Potterverse when all is said and done, but it's getting to the point now where I have to treat it with the same sort of mockery and irony that's usually reserved for bull**** like Twilight.

[Marsh.]

It's absurd because it sounds like a parody of a Rowling retcon more than anything, and once again it just reeks of her casting a person of color into a largely meaningless role just so she can say there's representation. Like, I think the idea that "An Asian woman is a submissive servant to a supervillain, THAT'S RACIST," whether you think it's right or wrong, it's a gross oversimplification of what the real issue is with Rowling's new age antics. It's more that she's acting like the entire culture of the world can bend itself to her storytelling needs. And, like, I'm saying this as someone who is still a fan of the Potterverse when all is said and done, but it's getting to the point now where I have to treat it with the same sort of mockery and irony that's usually reserved for bull**** like Twilight.

But, let's leave aside what may or may not make it racist for a moment and just focus on the "retcon". (Which it can't be as she hasn't changed any established fact anymore than she did when Ron's rat turned out to be Peter Pettigrew).

We're not talking Voldemort was McGonagall the whole time or anything earth shattering, so from that perspective I don't see the problem either.

If anything it's nothing more than an interesting twist. Even the movie didn't deem it that amazingly world changing that it needed to be kept secret and put it in the trailer.

Some of the ridiculous twists in the Cursed Child story I could understand people's frustration with. This is more like finding out more information about a side character we didn't know much about to begin with anyway.

[Glenn.]

I never see Nagini as Voldemort’s servant ever. And lbr its hardly a meaningless role. She plays a pretty big role in the overall scheme of things. I see this as yet another example of JKs immense back story that wasn’t necessary to the Potter story. If she wants to use it here then so be it, it’s her world that she created.

The backlash is another example of over sensitive/ idiotic moaning, for the sake of moaning. It’s literally the most dumbest thing in the world to be ‘upset’ about. It’s a story.

[Marsh.]

If anything, Nagini was the only thing Voldemort ever showed any affection for.

[user104658]

If anything, Nagini was the only thing Voldemort ever showed any affection for.Yeah, the only time Voldemort was ever even close to happy was when he was stroking his snake or violently flicking his wand.

[Marsh.]

Yeah, the only time Voldemort was ever even close to happy was when he was stroking his snake or violently flicking his wand.

Dirty boy.

[JoshBB]

According to JK, she's known that Nagini was originally a human for 20 years. And it's not uncommon for JK Rowling to have written extra details that she hadn't publicly given out (hence Pottermore), if you look at some of the past documentaries this is especially evident.

I don't actually think this is retconning at all (unlike C*rsed Ch*ld, which i will forever ignore as non-canon). And it's not an "afterthought" to include an Asian actor, Claudia Kim seems genuinely suited to the role and the fact that she is coincidentally Asian rather than a bland tokenist character I actually like. Thanks for coming to my ted talk :love:

[JoshBB]

I can't help but feel like the progressive left has a real issue at the moment. Constantly bashing and vilifying socially-conscious people with minor flaws/inconsistencies in their thinking, when there are literal Nazis and people with extreme views who are just ignored

[Oliver_W]

I can't help but feel like the progressive left has a real issue at the moment. Constantly bashing and vilifying socially-conscious people with minor flaws/inconsistencies in their thinking, when there are literal Nazis and people with extreme views who are just ignored

Yeah it's like how some "feminists" ignore islamic oppression of women but moan on about how men's legs are positioned on public transport and other nonissues.

[JoshBB]

Yeah it's like how some "feminists" ignore islamic oppression of women but moan on about how men's legs are positioned on public transport and other nonissues.

I can kind of agree, but I would say that's slightly different because Islamic fundamentalism has extremely little support in Western culture, we're talking probably 0.00001% of the overall population or something. So it makes sense to focus on more prevalent forms of sexism that are more common, but I get what you're saying.