Christian bakers win 'gay cake' Supreme Court fight

[arista]

https://news.sky.com/story/christian-bakers-win-gay-cake-supreme-court-fight-11522566


https://e3.365dm.com/16/10/1096x616/b712cbc96a4cbe6a4a700afa7fd64f1832c1c7290c714b2936 b81bc9d2b62074_3816326.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20161024191046

https://e3.365dm.com/16/10/750x563/ca95ee231030562956161fec884a220066fc76bc15a0fd4eeb 4db08bbc71e70a_3816313.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20161024181901
The Bakers win at the High Court today.


[Delivering the ruling, Supreme Court president Lady Hale said
the couple did not refuse to make the cake because of Mr Lee's sexual orientation.
She said: "Their objection was to the message on the cake, not to the personal characteristics of Mr Lee
or anyone else with whom he was associated.]

[Headie]

Oh dear

[Livia]

I have to support that.

The rights of gay people are not more important that someone's right to freedom of religion. They are equally as important. And this couple didn't refuse to make them a cake, they refused to make them a cake that said "support gay marriage".

Forcing this couple of make a cake with a message that did not sit with their religion would be like me owning a bookshop. refusing to stock a book that said the holocaust was a myth, and being taken to court for it.

[MB.]

Cake is an inherently queer construct so this is homophobic!

[MB.]

I have to support that.

The rights of gay people are not more important that someone's right to freedom of religion. They are equally as important. And this couple didn't refuse to make them a cake, they refused to make them a cake that said "support gay marriage".

Forcing this couple of make a cake with a message that did not sit with their religion would be like me owning a bookshop. refusing to stock a book that said the holocaust was a myth, and being taken to court for it.

I see you and Coleen Nolan have both been to the School of Melodramatic Gay Cake Analogies... (https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/05/19/loose-womens-coleen-nolan-compares-supporting-gay-rights-to-supporting-isis)

(the difference being that there's factual evidence that the Holocaust happened, whereas the Christian attitude towards same-sex marriage is a matter of opinion and interpretation. Not to mention being seen as endorsing one is considerably worse than being seen as endorsing the other, which I would hope would be self-explanatory no matter your religious views)

(also cake is an inherently queer construct so this is homophobic)

[Livia]

I see you and Coleen Nolan have both been to the School of Melodramatic Gay Cake Analogies... (https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/05/19/loose-womens-coleen-nolan-compares-supporting-gay-rights-to-supporting-isis)

(the difference being that there's factual evidence that the Holocaust happened, whereas the Christian attitude towards same-sex marriage is a matter of opinion and interpretation. Not to mention being seen as endorsing one is considerably worse than being seen as endorsing the other, which I would hope would be self-explanatory no matter your religious views)

(also cake is an inherently queer construct so this is homophobic)

Well, the high court seems to agree with me. Gay rights are not more important that religious freedom. They are equal.

.

[Oliver_W]

I don't understand why the spoilt little brats would even take it to the courts. Just go to a different bakery, princess.

[Crimson Dynamo]

A victory against a pair of self important twits

:clap1:

[Cherie]

A victory against a pair of self important twits

:clap1:

Agree with this, they did not object to baking the cake, they objected to the message on it, pretty sure they would have also objected if had said 'fcuk the pope' or similar and no one would have an issue

[Liam-]

Good, I’m tired of militant gays thinking they have more right to freedom than anyone else in the world, the irony is it’s probably cost a fortune in legal fees when all they had to do was find a bakery who was willing to do it for them.

[Marsh.]

I'm still confused why they wanted a cake like that?

Like, I assumed they wanted a wedding cake for a gay wedding. What's the purpose of a "support gay marriage" cake? Luring Homophobes with sugary treats?

[Vicky.]

Agree with this, they did not object to baking the cake, they objected to the message on it, pretty sure they would have also objected if had said 'fcuk the pope' or similar and no one would have an issue

Yup. I agree with the judgement for this reason. Obviously if it had been a case of refusing to serve someone simply because they were gay, it would be different, IMO.

http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/ashers-gay-cake-verdict-is-victory-for-freedom-of-expression/

“This verdict is a victory for freedom of expression. As well as meaning that Ashers cannot be legally forced to aid the promotion of same-sex marriage, it also means that gay bakers cannot be compelled by law to decorate cakes with anti-gay marriage slogans,” said human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell, Director of the Peter Tatchell Foundation.

“Businesses can now lawfully refuse a customer’s request to emblazon a political message if they have a conscientious objection to it. This includes the right to refuse messages that are sexist, xenophobic or anti-gay, which is a good thing.

“Although I profoundly disagree with Ashers opposition to marriage equality, in a free society neither they nor anyone else should be forced to facilitate a political idea that they oppose.

“The ruling does not permit anyone to discriminate against LGBT people. Such discrimination rightly remains unlawful.

“Ashers did not discriminate against the customer, Gareth Lee, because he was gay. They objected to the message he wanted on the cake: Support gay marriage.’

“Discrimination against LGBT people is wrong. But in a free society, people should be able to discriminate against ideas that they disagree with. I am glad the court upheld this important liberal principle.

“If the original judgement against Ashers had been upheld it would have meant that a Muslim printer could be obliged to publish cartoons of Mohammed and a Jewish printer could be forced to publish a book that propagates Holocaust denial. It could have also encouraged far right extremists to demand that bakers and other service providers facilitate the promotion of anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim opinions.

“That would have set a dangerous, authoritarian precedent that could have been open to serious abuse.

“Discrimination against people should be illegal but not discrimination against ideas and opinions,” said Mr Tatchell.

[Withano]

What was the message on the cake?

Bit hard to judge without that info

[Withano]

Oh i thought that picture was a joke lol

I dont know why the bakers were offended by the message on that cake? Seems super snowflakey.

[Marsh.]

Oh i thought that picture was a joke lol

I dont know why the bakers were offended by the message on that cake? Seems super snowflakey.

Don't think it's necessarily offence. They don't support gay marriage so don't wish to offer their sevices in the promotion of it?

[Marsh.]

Still baffled by the purpose of a cake like that.

It would be like getting a cake with anti-immigrant slogans. Why would you want a cake with these opinions on? :laugh:

Almost as though they asked them to make that cake after knowing their views on it and in order to kick up a stink.

[Withano]

Don't think it's necessarily offence. They don't support gay marriage so don't wish to offer their sevices in the promotion of it?

Stubbornness?
Closed mindedness?
Not caring for the beliefs of others?
Still might just be offence

I can see why they wasnt sued, I just think the bakers must be very sad individuals lol.

[thesheriff443]

They could of got a plain cake and wrote their message on it!

God I’m good, lol

[Ammi]

...:sad:...it’s sad that they don’t support the legal union of people who love each other, regardless of sexuality..I don’t support their ‘christianity’...

[armand.kay]

I cant say I'm surprised by this result if that was the message in the cake. This whole time I was under the impression that the couple had just wanted a wedding cake and the shop refused, because thats pretty bad. However a cake that says "support gay marriage" is inherently political and if the business doesn't want to align themselves with the specific beliefs then they have every right to refuse service. I also cant understand why the couple wouldn't support a queer owned business rather than fighting to give your money to a business that doesn't support you? Their best move would've been to let everyone know what this business stands for and urgh people not to support them, I guess they did that with this but were the legal fees worth it lol

[joeysteele]

I think I come down myself against the Bakers.

2 lower courts have upheld the customer argument, this one hasn't.

I agree, best not to waste so much money making a bigger issue of it.
However this dinosaur attitude of the Bakers doesn't warrant them being in business.

Just never use them again.
Then tell all you come in contact with about their bigotry, that would have been a good way for this couple to proceed.

[Marsh.]

Stubbornness?
Closed mindedness?
Not caring for the beliefs of others?
Still might just be offence

I can see why they wasnt sued, I just think the bakers must be very sad individuals lol.

I imagine not many people would promote a political idea they did not agree with.

[Headie]

1050058764425015296

[Redway]

Have to agree with Livia.

[Oliver_W]

1050058764425015296

They're businesses ran by people. People who have their own opinion, and should be able to use their time and resources as they see fit.

[Marsh.]

1050058764425015296

If it's nothing to do with the scriptures, it's nothing to do with any political persuasions either.

[Cal.]

But they’re gay so they’re automatically more important than normal people?

[armand.kay]

But they’re gay so they’re automatically more important than normal people?

Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that yet

[Marsh.]

But they’re gay so they’re automatically more important than normal people?

Not normal. :skull:

[Cal.]

Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that yet

Well I’m not interested in living in a world that isn’t like that yet

https://i.imgur.com/Fm4yE6m.gif

^us being a gay Thelma & Louise

[Marsh.]

Well I’m not interested in living in a world that isn’t like that yet

https://i.imgur.com/Fm4yE6m.gif

^us being a gay Thelma & Louise

That passenger seat is empty? Armand is in the boot?

[Alf]

Well I’m not interested in living in a world that isn’t like that yet

https://i.imgur.com/Fm4yE6m.gif

^us being a gay Thelma & LouiseHave you tried the Samaritans? they may be able to help.

[Marsh.]

Nobody can help Cal.

[armand.kay]

Well I’m not interested in living in a world that isn’t like that yet

https://i.imgur.com/Fm4yE6m.gif

^us being a gay Thelma & Louise
the gays need hurry up with their so called agenda I cant take this anymore


That passenger seat is empty? Armand is in the boot?

urgh yes the diet is working.

[montblanc]

the gays need hurry up with their so called agenda I cant take this anymore




urgh yes the diet is working.

kay is shook!

[Matthew.]

I see you and Coleen Nolan have both been to the School of Melodramatic Gay Cake Analogies... (https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/05/19/loose-womens-coleen-nolan-compares-supporting-gay-rights-to-supporting-isis)

:joker:

[Glenn.]

As much as I can’t stand Christians/religions of any kind by far the most infuriating thing is that they wanted ‘Support Gay Marraige’ on their wedding cake? Get a life you tasteless queers!

[Northern Monkey]

Like i always said.You wouldn’t go to an Islamic Halal butchers and then take them to court for not giving you bacon as it’s against their religious beliefs.
Same for asking Christian bakers to put a political message on a cake which goes against their religious beliefs.

[Marsh.]

Tbf I imagine Islamic Halal plays directly into what they do sell and what they don't. Like going into an Indian restaurant and asking for a Chinese dish. Not the best comparison really.

I doubt the bakery itself was inherently a Christian Bakery. Just the bakers themselves are Christian, I doubt the place was advertised as such. Unless they only sold Christian themed cakes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I and memo to gay militant duo


Bert and Ernie are not gays

FACT

[Twosugars]

refused to do translation editing to brexit supporting companies, twice
felt good :D

[Crimson Dynamo]

refused to do translation editing to brexit supporting companies, twice
felt good :D

What has that to do with this thread?

[Oliver_W]

What has that to do with this thread?

Because, like the bakery, he declined service to someone based on beliefs?

[Twosugars]

Everything. Refusing serviçe for political reasons:D

[Crimson Dynamo]

Everything. Refusing serviçe for political reasons:Dit isn't remotely comparible

Its just a poor attempt at sour grapes

[Niamh.]

I've done work for things I disagree with Politically, most recently Anti Abortion information before the referendum. I said "boo" as I was working on it but at the end of the day its business :laugh:

[Twosugars]

it isn't remotely comparible

Its just a poor attempt at sour grapes

whateva :D It felt great and will do it again :D

[Oliver_W]

If Twosugars is self-employed, he can take or pass whatever assignments he wants. If he's turning business down on behalf of an employer, I just hope their views align/they don't mind!

[Tom4784]

The ol' Halal analogy is as flawed as it's always been. Those shops are built upon being Halal based companies and it's often stated in the name or on the premises in a prominent fashion, to go into those shops and expect something non-halal would just be foolishness.

These bakeries are not christian businesses, they are normal businesses that refused custom on the grounds of sexuality because of the bias of the owners. That's the difference.

Plus, given how flexible Christianity is as a religion, if you think the rules against eating shellfish or not wearing different kinds of fabrics are silly but then you preach the anti-gay stuff then you're just a bigot looking for justification for being a bigot. People pick and choose which parts of religion they wish to follow. the Anti-gay stuff is just as silly as stoning someone for wearing different fabrics but people choose to follow the prior because it suits their agenda.

[Twosugars]

If Twosugars is self-employed, he can take or pass whatever assignments he wants. If he's turning business down on behalf of an employer, I just hope their views align/they don't mind!
Self-employed.

[Twosugars]

The ol' Halal analogy is as flawed as it's always been. Those shops are built upon being Halal based companies and it's often stated in the name or on the premises in a prominent fashion, to go into those shops and expect something non-halal would just be foolishness.

These bakeries are not christian businesses, they are normal businesses that refused custom on the grounds of sexuality because of the bias of the owners. That's the difference.

Plus, given how flexible Christianity is as a religion, if you think the rules against eating shellfish or not wearing different kinds of fabrics are silly but then you preach the anti-gay stuff then you're just a bigot looking for justification for being a bigot. People pick and choose which parts of religion they wish to follow. the Anti-gay stuff is just as silly as stoning someone for wearing different fabrics but people choose to follow the prior because it suits their agenda.

:clap2: Amen!

[Oliver_W]

I agree that the halal analogy is pretty daft, but I still think that even bigots (should) have the right to refuse service based on their beliefs. If the word spreads that the place is run by a bigot, then maybe they'll lose custom. But only if it happens organically, I don't agree with taking these things to the courts or media.

[Tom4784]

Bigots are entitled to their bigotry but they shouldn't profit from it or discrimination.

[Livia]

If a couple of Christian fundamentalists walked into a bakery run by a gay couple and asked for a cake saying, for instance, "Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God", I would expect the gay couple to refuse point blank. They'd have my backing just like the Christian couple have my support in this instance.

[Oliver_W]

Bigots are entitled to their bigotry but they shouldn't profit from it or discrimination.

Bigotry is a hard thing to discriminate from, as far as we know they didn't make cakes which said BURN THE GAYS. Turning down business is the opposite of profiting from bigotry.

[Tom4784]

If a couple of Christian fundamentalists walked into a bakery run by a gay couple and asked for a cake saying, for instance, "Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God", I would expect the gay couple to refuse point blank. They'd have my backing just like the Christian couple have my support in this instance.

I think that is quite a poor comparison though.

You're comparing 'Support gay marriage' to 'Homosexuality is an abomination...', that's two different ballparks completely. One is a message of support, the other is a negative derogatory comment. A better comparison would have been if the christian customers wanted a cake displaying a positive religious notion that the gay bakers disagreed with but oh well.

I would not expect anyone to agree to making a discriminatory product, just like I wouldn't expect anyone to be forced to make products that support racism etc but if you were to come up with a 1:1 comparison (IE a positive religious slogan instead) then the gay bakers would have to make the cake whether they agreed with it or not.

Running a business means sometimes supplying services to people you disagree with.

[thesheriff443]

No one should be forced to do something they don’t want to do be they Christians or gays in a business situation or a private one.

[GoldHeart]

Is this happening again ?? :facepalm: .

This reminds me of another story about a wedding cake . And I still feel the same way , taking the bakery to court is ridiculous ! .

They could go to a different bakery or find another option.
As other's have said it does feel like the message on this cake is looking for unnecessary attention. Like they're trying to bait people .

[Northern Monkey]

Ok here’s one....
A gay butcher goes into a Muslim bakery which has no Halal signs on display and asks for a cake that says ‘support British Pork industries’ but the Muslim baker refuses due to religious grounds thus being discriminatory to pork munchers everywhere.
He will still serve the gay butcher but he can’t in all conscience put that message on the cake.
Should the gay butcher sue?

[Oliver_W]

No, the gay butcher should not. No-one in similar shoes should. Never mind the public hissyfits about not having your gay cake made, just go elsewhere.

[Crimson Dynamo]

People should get over it. The law spoke

Move on

[Livia]

Ok here’s one....
A gay butcher goes into a Muslim bakery which has no Halal signs on display and asks for a cake that says ‘support British Pork industries’ but the Muslim baker refuses due to religious grounds thus being discriminatory to pork munchers everywhere.
He will still serve the gay butcher but he can’t in all conscience put that message on the cake.
Should the gay butcher sue?

Nice try Monkey... sadly it seems seems like all analogies are poor ones on here if you've decided this is a case of bigotry. Even if the law says it was not.

[Vicky.]

The actual definition of bigot is

'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.'

I would say that goes for people both sides of the fence on a lot of topics.

[Cherie]

The actual definition of bigot is

'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.'

I would say that goes for people both sides of the fence on a lot of topics.

Yes tolerance works both ways

[Alf]

How this even got to court is the most disturbing thing, they should have been laughed at and told to pi55 off.

[Maru]

The actual definition of bigot is

'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.'

I would say that goes for people both sides of the fence on a lot of topics.

Pretty much.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How this even got to court is the most disturbing thing, they should have been laughed at and told to pi55 off.

a disgraceful waste of court time

for the vanity of a couple of herberts trying to get likes on FB

VILE