48 letters in : The PM Theresa May in a Leadership Contest

[arista]

Ref: SkyNewsHD and GMBHD itv


https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-on-the-brink-of-a-leadership-challenge-11578479


The ballot will be held from 6pm to 8pm this evening.

[user104658]

Strong & stable.

[arista]

She needs 158 MP's backing her.

[Crimson Dynamo]

bring back Cameron!

[Crimson Dynamo]

8.30 tonight show great for Iain Dale show

[MTVN]

Hm a few weeks ago I think she'd have survived this comfortably, now I'm not so sure. If she can't get her deal through Parliament and she can't get any more concessions from the EU then its hard to see where she has to go, she's out of ideas

[user104658]

bring back Cameron!

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/11/05/23/5809122-0-image-a-25_1541459755559.jpg

[AnnieK]

All this will do is add more instability to the uk and any incoming PM will have a harder time getting any sort of deal from the EU. Embarrassing

[Nicky91]

yep exactly what that vile parliament wants, with their ''quest for superiority''


i really hope that you get a people's vote as for the brexit-gate (to remain or to leave) cause most of our dutch politicians have said if the uk parliament goes for no deal brexit without the people's opinion it feels like a dictatorship and that isn't necessary at all

[Crimson Dynamo]

And to think we voted NO in Scotland...


:skull:

[user104658]

And to think we voted NO in Scotland...


:skull:

What makes it worse is that if Scotland had gone independent back at our own referendum, and then rUK had Brexitted, a huge chunk (most) of the London-based trade that's now moving over to Holland and Germany would have been headed to Edinburgh :shrug:. Although in practice, the question of the Scottish border would be even messier than the Irish border.

[joeysteele]

What a mess.
I'd hope she loses this.
However I do think the mainstream Conservative MPs, don't really want one of the strong voices on the harder brexit side to be leader.

So it may be they decide to, for another year, stick with the devil they know.

Theresa May has made a mess of and created shambles as to the brexit issue.
She should have worked to bring Parties and people more together.
She has stubbornly stuck to her own mind script and has likely divided more.
So it's doubtful, to me, anyone could do worse than she has.
My problem with her is, you just cannot really believe near all she politically says.

I still think she will come through this vote but it is a major blow to her and leaves her weaker for it happening, mainly due to her being the PM in government.

Then if she wins, the likelihood is, those who put these letters in, will be hardened even more against her for another year.

I think she'll win but it's a secret vote, so who knows.
For me however, the sooner this useless PM is gone the better.
I've never disliked anyone in politics, or trusted the word less of any politician of any party the way I dislike or don't trust the word of Theresa May.

[smudgie]

Theresa the appeaser.
IF she does survive , then hopefully she will realise you can’t run a government by trying to please both sides on such an important matter.
Give the people what they voted for and get on with it.

[Nicky91]

Theresa the appeaser.
IF she does survive , then hopefully she will realise you can’t run a government by trying to please both sides on such an important matter.
Give the people what they voted for and get on with it.

second people's vote

and if outcome is remain, then put those ''no deal'' superior politicians on a Island in the sea very very far away from the UK

[Livia]

So now that's two women leaders betrayed.

Why not just hand the country over to Corbyn and let us Jews leave in peace.

[Nicky91]

So now that's two women leaders betrayed.

Why not just hand the country over to Corbyn and let us Jews leave in peace.

to Israel, would also be fun next year since eurovision is there in May

and we dutch are also respectful for Jews, so you're welcome to come Livia

[The Slim Reaper]

So just to get this straight, just over 2 years ago, 60% of tories voted in May, but now they've changed their minds and want another vote.

https://media.tenor.com/images/103a6598f02b51dcca20d2f0e5540936/tenor.gif

A month before May was voted in, 51% voted for Brexit, but a 2nd vote on that is seen as an attack on democracy. This dick measuring contest in the conservative party is about to take us all down. But at least we get to hold up our national xenophobia like a participation trophy.

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/12/08/7321728-0-image-a-24_1544604093035.jpg

[Nicky91]

So just to get this straight, just over 2 years ago, 60% of tories voted in May, but now they've changed their minds and want another vote.

https://media.tenor.com/images/103a6598f02b51dcca20d2f0e5540936/tenor.gif

A month before May was voted in, 51% voted for Brexit, but a 2nd vote on that is seen as an attack on democracy. This dick measuring contest in the conservative party is about to take us all down. But at least we get to hold up our national xenophobia like a participation trophy.

UK has just become a huge joke lol


and also what Livia said, if they now get Corbyn as PM i would advise all non-british people to leave the UK cause things will be hard for them during his reign, sad but true

most other countries are more laughing what a mess this brexit thing is

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/F05E/production/_104743516_mail12dec.jpg

[The Slim Reaper]

UK has just become a huge joke lol


and also what Livia said, if they now get Corbyn as PM i would advise all non-british people to leave the UK cause things will be hard for them during his reign, sad but true

most other countries are more laughing what a mess this brexit thing is

Don't fall for the BS, Nicky. Corbyn is the only politician that's talked about the needs of society as opposed to the needs of donors and friends.

[Greg!]

if they now get Corbyn as PM i would advise all non-british people to leave the UK cause things will be hard for them during his reign, sad but true


???????

Nicky no offence but you don't know what you're talking about.

[The Slim Reaper]

???????

Nicky no offence but you don't know what you're talking about.

Conservatives - fighting for the downtrodden and foreigners is what they're known for!

[Nicky91]

???????

Nicky no offence but you don't know what you're talking about.

i'm not from the UK so maybe i don't know everything

[arista]

SkyNews Reports so far she has 107 backing her

She needs 158 by this evening .

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't fall for the BS, Nicky. Corbyn is the only politician that's talked about the needs of society as opposed to the needs of donors and friends.

this is untrue

[The Slim Reaper]

SkyNews Reports so far she has 107 backing her

She needs 158 by this evening .

Does she have your backing Arista?

[Livia]

this is untrue

It is untrue, Trumpet. But you know Corbyn supporters... they will back him and all his anti-Semitic cronies.

Thanks to Corbyn and his total inability to address the anti-Semitism in his own party, Jewish people are now, per head of capita, the most abused minority in the UK.

Oh [dear] Jeremy Corbyn.

[Nicky91]

this is untrue

just had my political lesson from him, it seems conservatives wanted the brexit, not Corbyn or the entire left

so yeah for some reason if Corbyn was in power we would've never got this whole brexit mess in the first place

secondly what UK needs to do is working together with other european countries, think of the working class british people first, being inside the EU generates jobs for them, and also FDA and EMA leaving UK for Netherlands and Germany also is a sign that it goes very much the wrong way with this brexit


we dutch had our Nexit yes, but i believe now it was a wise decision from our people to vote Remain

[Scarlett.]

I mean, I despise May... but I think I despise the rest of the Tories even more.

[Livia]

just had my political lesson from him, it seems conservatives wanted the brexit, not Corbyn or the entire left

so yeah for some reason if Corbyn was in power we would've never got this whole brexit mess in the first place

secondly what UK needs to do is working together with other european countries, think of the working class british people first, being inside the EU generates jobs for them, and also FDA and EMA leaving UK for Netherlands and Germany also is a sign that it goes very much the wrong way with this brexit


we dutch had our Nexit yes, but i believe now it was a wise decision from our people to vote Remain

UKIP wanted Brexit. The Tories used the whole referendum promise as a vote winner in the General Election. They had no idea people would vote to leave... Cameron was so sure we'd vote to stay that the minute the vote was in he walked away.

[Nicky91]

I mean, I despise May... but I think I despise the rest of the Tories even more.

the way this brexit has gone (which was the idea of the Tories) it is now a perfect opportunity for Labour to become the better political party, try and redeem UK for the good


brexit should be demolished completely, no brexit is best option with then talks with some european countries to work closer together


that is the way things should go in the UK, no more brexit and go solve some of the UK's problems now, make life better again for the working class british people

[Livia]

the way this brexit has gone (which was the idea of the Tories) it is now a perfect opportunity for Labour to become the better political party, try and redeem UK for the good


brexit should be demolished completely, no brexit is best option with then talks with some european countries to work closer together


that is the way things should go in the UK, no more brexit and go solve some of the UK's problems now, make life better again for the working class british people

How about the majority who voted to leave? Don't they count? Is that democracy?

If Corbyn becomes PM, my Grandmother is already packed to leave. She's survived one anti-Semitic leader in her life, she has no wish to face another.

[The Slim Reaper]

Anti-semitism is unfortunately on the rise again, but it's not from the left unfortunately for those that wish to propagate this myth.

We've seen the far right in hungary and Austria growing in Europe, we've seen the American right shouting "jews will not replace us" as they march with tiki torches, but yeah, it's a problem for the left to worry about.

Cognitive dissonance is a real thing that people attached to the right are going to have to wrestle with in the coming years.

You can't have it both ways, we can't be social justice warrior snowflakes on one hand, then anti-semites on the other. Or is the claim that we are all these things, but exclude Jews?

[Scarlett.]

the way this brexit has gone (which was the idea of the Tories) it is now a perfect opportunity for Labour to become the better political party, try and redeem UK for the good


brexit should be demolished completely, no brexit is best option with then talks with some european countries to work closer together


that is the way things should go in the UK, no more brexit and go solve some of the UK's problems now, make life better again for the working class british people

I think above all, whoever is in power needs to push Brexit back and hold a People's Vote, with actual proper options and plans, unlike with the original vote. The People's Vote is the only way any party can escape the stalemate.

[Crimson Dynamo]

so yeah for some reason if Corbyn was in power we would've never got this whole brexit mess in the first place



Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.
Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

[Livia]

Anti-semitism is unfortunately on the rise again, but it's not from the left unfortunately for those that wish to propagate this myth.

We've seen the far right in hungary and Austria growing in Europe, we've seen the American right shouting "jews will not replace us" as they march with tiki torches, but yeah, it's a problem for the left to worry about.

Cognitive dissonance is a real thing that people attached to the right are going to have to wrestle with in the coming years.

You can't have it both ways, we can't be social justice warrior snowflakes on one hand, then anti-semites on the other. Or is the claim that we are all these things, but exclude Jews?

Yeah, yeah... We're not talking about the far right and we're not talking about Hungary. We're talking about the UK Labour party, led by a terrorist sympathiser who has allowed his party to drift more and more into anti-Semitism because he hates Israel.

If you can't see that there's a problem with anti-Semitism in the Labour party, then you're probably a member of the Labour party and are wearing the official party blinkers.

[Livia]

I think above all, whoever is in power needs to push Brexit back and hold a People's Vote, with actual proper options and plans, unlike with the original vote. The People's Vote is the only way any party can escape the stalemate.

And maybe at the second vote, all the people who couldn't be arsed to visit the polling station but have been outraged at the result, will this time cast a vote. You never know.

[Nicky91]

Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.
Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153744/jeremy-corbyn-brexit/

the many times you mentioned Corbyn's name in this one post, mess

[Scarlett.]

And maybe at the second vote, all the people who couldn't be arsed to visit the polling station but have been outraged at the result, will this time cast a vote. You never know.

Hopefully so, if we do get a People's Vote it could be the most important vote this generation, with the first vote people had the excuse of thinking it was a bit of a giggle, anyone who has lived through the past two years of absolute chaos will hopefully realise that voting this time is important.

[Livia]

Hopefully so, if we do get a People's Vote it could be the most important vote this generation, with the first vote people had the excuse of thinking it was a bit of a giggle, anyone who has lived through the past two years of absolute chaos will hopefully realise that voting this time is important.

Really? What happens if people vote to leave again? Are you just going to keep having referendums till you get something you agree with? That's not democracy, you know.

I don't know anyone who thought the last referendum was "a giggle". Most people I know thought long and hard about their vote.

[Nicky91]

Hopefully so, if we do get a People's Vote it could be the most important vote this generation, with the first vote people had the excuse of thinking it was a bit of a giggle, anyone who has lived through the past two years of absolute chaos will hopefully realise that voting this time is important.

definitely true, UK made an even bigger joke of themselves than they already are in the eyes of the rest of the world

nearly everyone is against the UK, with their views of them still believing to be a global power, an empire

working together with other european countries is the key to a better UK


and yes it would be the most important vote this generation for sure

[joeysteele]

This thread isn't actually about the Labour party or anti Semitism but some will use it to spout their hate against the left at any turn.

This thread is about a serving PM whose own MPs have forced her to face a no confidence vote.
Her own MPs, no one else.

I hope she loses and is gone.
For me anyone is better than her, she has further divided the Country, Parliament and even her own Party.

She answers next to nothing and it seems listens to hardly anyone.

She has handled the brexit process abominably.
From the start of her Premiership to now.
If she loses tonight, (sadly I don't think she will lose), I doubt anyone could do as frustratingly bad as she has.

[The Slim Reaper]

This thread isn't actually about the Labour party or anti Semitism but some will use it to spout their hate against the left at any turn.

This thread is about a serving PM whose own MPs have forced her to face a no confidence vote.
Her own MPs, no one else.

I hope she loses and is gone.
For me anyone is better than her, she has further divided the Country, Parliament and even her own Party.

She answers next to nothing and it seems listens to hardly anyone.

She has handled the brexit process abominably.
From the start of her Premiership to now.
If she loses tonight, (sadly I don't think she will lose), I doubt anyone could do as frustratingly bad as she has.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/4ebdc17bed7589fef926062b02529469/tenor.gif?itemid=5879412

[Scarlett.]

Really? What happens if people vote to leave again? Are you just going to keep having referendums till you get something you agree with? That's not democracy, you know.

I don't know anyone who thought the last referendum was "a giggle". Most people I know thought long and hard about their vote.

If people vote leave a second time, fine, but if there is more options the government will have more of an idea of what kinda of Brexit the population wants, rather than guessing, and then they can work towards implementing that kind of Brexit. The kind of stuff that should have been done the first time around.

Also, there is the fact that Vote Leave subverted democracy by breaking electoral law. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992) I don't see why the democracy arguement is brought up about the People's Vote, what is more democratic than asking the people to vote? Are people just afraid the result wont be to their liking?

It's pretty clear that the government and parliament as a whole is not getting anywhere, they've spent the last two years in stalemate, nothing real has been achieved. When parliament cannot come to a conclusion on an issue such as this putting a vote to the people is the only option.

Maybe if David Cameron hadn't done the vote on the basis of party politics and had actually thought through the consequences of his actions we wouldnt have been in this mess. If he'd have taken the time to outline what happens if the Leave won, instead of presuming Remain would win, we'd be in a much better place. Maybe if he hadn't quit when things didn't go his way, we'd have had a functioning government and a united Conservative Party, but we don't.

[Livia]

This thread isn't actually about the Labour party or anti Semitism but some will use it to spout their hate against the left at any turn.

This thread is about a serving PM whose own MPs have forced her to face a no confidence vote.
Her own MPs, no one else.

I hope she loses and is gone.
For me anyone is better than her, she has further divided the Country, Parliament and even her own Party.

She answers next to nothing and it seems listens to hardly anyone.

She has handled the brexit process abominably.
From the start of her Premiership to now.
If she loses tonight, (sadly I don't think she will lose), I doubt anyone could do as frustratingly bad as she has.

Back are you, joey?

Have the courage to quote me.

[Livia]

If people vote leave a second time, fine, but if there is more options the government will have more of an idea of what kinda of Brexit the population wants, rather than guessing, and then they can work towards implementing that kind of Brexit. The kind of stuff that should have been done the first time around.

Also, there is the fact that Vote Leave subverted democracy by breaking electoral law. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992) I don't see why the democracy arguement is brought up about the People's Vote, what is more democratic than asking the people to vote? Are people just afraid the result wont be to their liking?

It's pretty clear that the government and parliament as a whole is not getting anywhere, they've spent the last two years in stalemate, nothing real has been achieved. When parliament cannot come to a conclusion on an issue such as this putting a vote to the people is the only option.

Maybe if David Cameron hadn't done the vote on the basis of party politics and had actually thought through the consequences of his actions we wouldnt have been in this mess. If he'd have taken the time to outline what happens if the Leave won, instead of presuming Remain would win, we'd be in a much better place. Maybe if he hadn't quit when things didn't go his way, we'd have had a functioning government and a united Conservative Party, but we don't.

They broke electoral law. Yeah, I hear that a lot from people who have no idea what electoral law is or how they broke it. There was a minor discrepancy in the reporting of donations. They didn't rig a ballot.

[joeysteele]

Back are you, joey?

Have the courage to quote me.

Ive never been away. Not that its anything to do with you.

I made a point re the thread but mainly stuck to the main issue of it actually.
I never said any members names or asked for anyone to identify themselves.
That you've chosen to possibly put your hand up is your affair,

[MTVN]

I don't see what the options could be for a second vote. It can't just be 'Leave' again because we're too far along in the process for that and there's different versions of Brexit. But you also can't have Remain vs Mays deal vs No deal vs Norway option etc. because none of those would get a majority and its not really fair to split the leave vote but not the remain vote. A second referendum would never settle the issue anyway, it would just lead to constant new calls for another vote

People say Vote Leave broke the law but remember that Remain had far more funding than Leave and had pretty much the whole weight of government behind it. Remain always had the much bigger advantage

[Smithy]

So the tories chose May in 2016 and now some have changed their mind and want to revote?

Seems like sound logic can it be implemented anywhere else? :think:

[Beso]

This thread isn't actually about the Labour party or anti Semitism but some will use it to spout their hate against the left at any turn.

This thread is about a serving PM whose own MPs have forced her to face a no confidence vote.
Her own MPs, no one else.

I hope she loses and is gone.
For me anyone is better than her, she has further divided the Country, Parliament and even her own Party.

She answers next to nothing and it seems listens to hardly anyone.

She has handled the brexit process abominably.
From the start of her Premiership to now.
If she loses tonight, (sadly I don't think she will lose), I doubt anyone could do as frustratingly bad as she has.



Poor woman might have split the country and her party, but the reason for that is the fact she is doing exactly what the country voted for.

[arista]

Reports (SkyNewsHD & BBCnewsHD)
she will have the 158 votes she needs
tonight.
Which means she will have a year
without this back stabbing.

We should find out after 7PM tonight.

[AnnieK]

Cameron is definitely the most to blame for this mess. Why she ever stepped up at that time is beyond me, it was a mess that was never going to end well.

[Rob!]

This is ****ing insane. And people actually support this joke of a government?

[The Slim Reaper]

I don't see what the options could be for a second vote. It can't just be 'Leave' again because we're too far along in the process for that and there's different versions of Brexit. But you also can't have Remain vs Mays deal vs No deal vs Norway option etc. because none of those would get a majority and its not really fair to split the leave vote but not the remain vote. A second referendum would never settle the issue anyway, it would just lead to constant new calls for another vote

People say Vote Leave broke the law but remember that Remain had far more funding than Leave and had pretty much the whole weight of government behind it. Remain always had the much bigger advantage

I don't see what the first part of that sentence has to do with the rest of it. You can't say "Ahh well, we may have broken the law, but they had more cash, so we'll call it evens.."

It could also be argued that the main reasons for remaining are more geared up in policy and the long term effects on the economy, and by proxy, the people, whereas leave had the much easier and effective slogans or sound bites, such as £350m each week for the NHS, stop Brussels controlling our laws, and the additional xenophobic undertones to aspects of the campaign which automatically strike a chord with low-information voters and help to scare the old people that actually won the election.

I partly agree with the first paragraph in that it's difficult to actually run another remain/leave election. However, the fact that circumstances have changed, and many people realise now that they were hoodwinked by the leave campaign, suggests to me that in a healthy democracy, it's important to find a way to make these kind of things work.

It's easier to change course mid way, than it is to hit your destination and realise we don't want to be here.

[Crimson Dynamo]

urg after she survives she will be like a grey living corpse

[Kazanne]

Alan Sugar said if ever Corbyn was made PM he would leave this country,can't say I'de blame him

[Beso]

She is a tough cookie is our there's a. .a few snotty men will not oust her this time.

[MTVN]

I don't see what the first part of that sentence has to do with the rest of it. You can't say "Ahh well, we may have broken the law, but they had more cash, so we'll call it evens.."

It could also be argued that the main reasons for remaining are more geared up in policy and the long term effects on the economy, and by proxy, the people, whereas leave had the much easier and effective slogans or sound bites, such as £350m each week for the NHS, stop Brussels controlling our laws, and the additional xenophobic undertones to aspects of the campaign which automatically strike a chord with low-information voters and help to scare the old people that actually won the election.

I partly agree with the first paragraph in that it's difficult to actually run another remain/leave election. However, the fact that circumstances have changed, and many people realise now that they were hoodwinked by the leave campaign, suggests to me that in a healthy democracy, it's important to find a way to make these kind of things work.

It's easier to change course mid way, than it is to hit your destination and realise we don't want to be here.

Well my point is that people refer to Vote Leaves spending to suggest it gave them an unfair advantage or even that it invalidates the result but the fact is that it was never a level playing field and the Remain campaign had by far the bigger advantage. Vote Leave messed up and were rightly fined but it shouldn't distort the way we treat the referendum result

There's been no consistent evidence that many people have changed their mind or that people now favour a second referendum. My view is that Mays deal is the only thing we have which actually shows how Brexit could be achieved relatively smoothly and delivers on the result. All other alternatives, whether it be no deal, a second vote or remaining in the EU, do not offer long term certainty and would leave many more people embittered and angry than May's deal does

[Crimson Dynamo]

What does it say about membership if its this hard to leave?

[The Slim Reaper]

What does it say about membership if its this hard to leave?

It's actually really easy to leave, it's difficult to have your cake, eat it, then leave.

[Twosugars]

What does it say about membership if its this hard to leave?
had uk never joined and always been out we'd have had to contribute to get access to eu markets and other juicy bits anyway
so now those expecting a clean break from the biggest trading bloc in the world on our doorstep are being disingenious, not to mention economic idiots letting some anti-eu sentiments cloud their judgement

[The Slim Reaper]

Alan Sugar said if ever Corbyn was made PM he would leave this country,can't say I'de blame him

Yeah, must be tough for the billionaire Lord. Ask the nursing professional using foodbanks this Christmas how this tory government is working out for them.

[Twosugars]

urg after she survives she will be like a grey living corpse
well, Idk about her looks, LT, but politically winning no-confidence vote strenghtens her position within the party

[Beso]

Yeah, must be tough for the billionaire Lord. Ask the nursing professional using foodbanks this Christmas how this tory government is working out for them.

I doubt his decision has anything at all to do with money.:joker:

[The Slim Reaper]

I doubt his decision has anything at all to do with money.:joker:

Oh yeah, i forgot that Corbyn would make him wear a yellow magen David, and march him off to a death camp quicker than you could say "you're fired".

[joeysteele]

Alan Sugar said if ever Corbyn was made PM he would leave this country,can't say I'de blame him

I read Paul Daniels saying he'd leave in the 90s if Labour got in.
However he didn't.

As for Alan Sugar, another one like our PM deluded with power.
He's so deluded he thinks he can fire someone before he even hires them.

It's a pity the sick and disabled don't have the means to leave this Country to avoid this government's sledgehammer taken to them.

I hope this PM loses tonight, I doubt she will but one thing she'll be certain of, there will be a growing number of her own MPs, plotting against her for another year.
Whether she comes through big or small.
If she then miraculously got this deal through Parliament too.
Then the DUP are likely to pull their support for her government as their issue is more with her than the Conservative party.

She will then hopefully be stuck between a rock and a hard place, deservedly so in my view.

[Withano]

Imagine in ten year time somebody will make a documentry about May and our kids will ask if she was on drugs or just pig-****-stupid. And we’ll all be like idfk as we wave burgundy passports and surplus cash with Corbyns face on in our perfect health :flutter:

[Denver]

I dont know how anyone can think labour will do better when they are just as bad

[arista]

I dont know how anyone can think labour will do better when they are just as bad


Yes it seems that way
they are saying the Vote Result will be at 9PM


And BBC1HD has news special 7:30PM - 9PM tonight

[Denver]

The state of the politics from all parties is a worrying sign

We need someone with a backbone who isnt a **** to step up

[Matthew.]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/12/08/7321728-0-image-a-24_1544604093035.jpg

I don’t like Theresa May but I hope she wins this vote because I’d rather have her than some of these

The idea of Jacob Reese Mogg being Prime Minister *shudders* :yuk:

[Crimson Dynamo]

had uk never joined and always been out we'd have had to contribute to get access to eu markets and other juicy bits anyway
so now those expecting a clean break from the biggest trading bloc in the world on our doorstep are being disingenious, not to mention economic idiots letting some anti-eu sentiments cloud their judgement

Who are you talking about?

[Crimson Dynamo]

The state of the politics from all parties is a worrying sign

We need someone with a backbone who isnt a **** to step up

Ruth and Nicola say hi

[arista]

[A total of 171 Tory MPs have publicly said they will continue
to back her as leader - but as the ballot is secret, they could vote differently behind closed doors.
The party has 317 seats, meaning the prime minister needs 159 votes to gain a majority.
MPs will vote between 6pm and 8pm tonight, and the result is expected to emerge at about 9pm.]


https://news.sky.com/story/mps-reveal-whether-they-support-or-oppose-pm-11578536

[Mitchell]

She’s gonna win isn’t she :(

[reece(:]

Wow what interesting timing.... :umm2:

1072889121528520705

[MTVN]

I can't see many people voting different to what they've stated, surely they'd just keep quiet if they were going to Vote against her rather than make a show of support

May should be looking to have at least 200 in support in any case

[Beso]

It's OK, diane abbot had done a recount of the letters and it's 14 not 48.

[smudgie]

If Theresa May wins tonight, this gives her 12 months before another no confidence vote can go ahead, does this include any that Jeremy Corbyn or anybody else could throw at her.
If so then the Tories are playing a very good game.:shrug:

[MTVN]

If Theresa May wins tonight, this gives her 12 months before another no confidence vote can go ahead, does this include any that Jeremy Corbyn or anybody else could throw at her.
If so then the Tories are playing a very good game.:shrug:

Nah there could still be a general vote of no confidence in the government at some point

[Withano]

She’s cancelled the vote of no confidence just in case she loses

[arista]

Nah there could still be a general vote of no confidence in the government at some point


Yes Labour plans a no confidence vote in her
Next Week.


Ref: LBC Live

[smudgie]

Nah there could still be a general vote of no confidence in the government at some point

Ahh, thanks for that, wasn’t sure.

[saiwong]

UK politicians are a complete mess right now. They care more about themselves than serving the public.

Whilst Theresa May is leader of the Conservative Party I will never vote Conservative
Whilst Jeremy Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party I will never vote Labour

The Brexit negotiations is a complete shambles. The first mistake is having a 'remainer' Theresa May leading UK negotiations with the EU. You really needed a 'leaver' to head the UK negotiations.


The referendum we had was not legally binding, and the 'leave' camp won by a small margin. IMHO I don't think the margin was large enough to start the process of triggering Article 50. If the 'leave' camp won 70%+ of the vote, then yes, go sign Article 50 but with a small percentage win I disagree that Article 50 should have been triggered.


Theresa May is a feeble, useless leader and painfully bad negotiator. This is why we have an 'EU agreement' that no one wants

[arista]

LIVE: Theresa May tells crying MPs she won't stand at next election

https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-on-the-brink-of-a-leadership-challenge-11578479

[reece(:]

LIVE: Theresa May tells crying MPs she won't stand at next election

https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-on-the-brink-of-a-leadership-challenge-11578479

Another of her many fibs?

[arista]

Another of her many fibs?


No this is true.

[saiwong]

Theresa May cancelled the Brexit vote deal, since she knew she wouldn't win

maybe Theresa May will also cancel the vote of no confidence :hehe:

[joeysteele]

LIVE: Theresa May tells crying MPs she won't stand at next election

https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-on-the-brink-of-a-leadership-challenge-11578479

That should help her win this tonight.
Hardly any Conservative MPs, I think, really want her to fight the next election after her dismal effort last year.

[arista]

That should help her win this tonight.
Hardly any Conservative MPs, I think, really want her to fight the next election after her dismal effort last year.



Very True Joey

[Rob!]

Theresa to be ruled out on medical grounds?

[Oliver_W]

Why do some of you want her to lose this? It'll mean either Jacob Rees Mogg or Boris Johnson taking over, who I'm gonna go out an a limb and guess you think are worse?

There's no reason it would lead to a General Election, as we don't vote for the PM, we vote for our local MP, and the PM represents the party with the most MPs.

[joeysteele]

Very True Joey

Of course also knowing how much more than usual this Woman is as to political deceit.

Did she just say she will not lead the party in the 2022 election or in the next election.

If she said the former, I wouldn't put it past her calling an election if she could, next year.
Still leading the party into that one as a last gasp hope of clinging on to her PM status.

She has form for doing such a thing before.

[Jack_]

screaming Andrew Neil delivered that intro as if he was doing the X Factor results

[reece(:]

screaming Andrew Neil delivered that intro as if he was doing the X Factor results

a scream!

[reece(:]

Not a resolute and robust lady #weakandwobbly

[Smithy]

Right you’re still PM apprentice time now please!

[Underscore]

SHES DONE IT

[Underscore]

MAJORITY OF 83

[Underscore]

Screw you hard brexiteers

[arista]

200 For the PM

and 117 Against her

[Daniel-X]

SHES DONE IT

Me when she dies.

[RileyH]

Right but why did I put BBC on wanting The Apprentice and being met with a load of old people jabbering on about bloody nonsense

[saiwong]

Half expecting Dermot O'Leary to come out and announce the result of the vote, nail biting isn't it


http://i4.cdnds.net/15/03/618x405/dermot-o-leary-x-factor-itv.jpg

[Daniel-X]

Whew this episode of The Apprentice seems boring

[reece(:]

Not 117 against her

she's never gonna get a deal through commons.

[arista]

[Theresa May wins confidence vote with 200 MPs' support
117 voted against her in high-stakes ballot
PM now immune from another confidence vote for a year]

https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-on-the-brink-of-a-leadership-challenge-11578479

[Beso]

Close the thread.

[Morgan.]

[Theresa May wins confidence vote with 200 MPs' support
117 voted against her in high-stakes ballot
PM now immune from another confidence vote for a year]

https://news.sky.com/story/live-may-on-the-brink-of-a-leadership-challenge-11578479

This really is a Channel 5 style BB Situation

[Rob!]

Skin of her teeth though yikes

[Beso]

117 is basically the 48 and a pal that was due payment for an earlier favour...skin of the teeth, my arse!

[Scarlett.]

Probably the best case scenario, I still prefer May to Mogg, Boris or Gove

[Beso]

T'was a harry style landslide.

[joeysteele]

A serving PM of a minority government with 317 MPs.
Has 117 of those MPs voting no confidence in said PM.

That is disastrous.

Moves came against Thatcher as a serving PM but after 11 years of premiership.
This PM has around 37% of her own MPs losing confidence in her after barely 2 and a half years being leader and PM.

It's a poor result for Theresa May.
I always believed she'd win this vote and if the 48 who wrote letters, had only been joined by around 20 others, then that would have been a good result.
To have doubled that number of 48 and added a further 20 to that on top.
Is a really bad position now for this PM, who many now will be looking at what date she will standing down, since she has said she will not lead the Party in the election of 2022.

This is a really farcical and bad for the Nation position for any government of the UK to have come to.

[Beso]

Whatever it was, all I see is a strong determined women who could have walked at anytime with nothing more than an understanding nod from the public as she went.

Bit no! She stayed, doggedly battling away to get us out this mess we got ourselves in. Doing it for us. Not herself,not her party, just us.

She hasn't shunned the desperation of her plight, nor been visibly fazed by the indignation or scorn put upon her from her greedy self serving lynch mob.

The whole world has had its say, but our prime minister has kept smiling, kept fighting like a prime minister for the people should.

[Withano]

Bit no! She stayed, doggedly battling away to get us out this mess we got ourselves in. Doing it for us. Not herself,not her party, just us.

Speak for yourself! The Corbynite remainers will share zero responsibility for your mess!

[Beso]

Speak for yourself! The Corbynite remainers will share zero responsibility for your mess!

Ah well, at least we dragged ya down with us.

[James]

Didn't Corbyn get about the same percentage as May tonight, in his last leadership election?

[joeysteele]

Didn't Corbyn get about the same percentage as May tonight, in his last leadership election?

This isn't a leadership election though.
Corbyn has had bad results in votes of confidence yes, however he is only the opposition leader.

This is a no confidence vote in the serving PM of the present government in power.
The result showing not just that 117 don't want her as PM and leader but they also have no confidence in her.
All from her own Party.

200 of them do, for now but for a PM to have to say, she will guarantee not to lead them into a general election in 2022, in order to get votes to remain PM now, is at best farcical and worst near disastrous.
After only 30 months as Prime Minister too.

[Glenn.]

Queen of surviving :love:

[Tom4784]

I lived for the drama of it all tbh.

The people's choice lives to deliver the brexit people voted for :clap1:

[Rob!]

So, the vote was:

For May: 63%
Against May: 37%

Jacob Rees-Mogg is calling for the PM to resign. That’s kind of strange, given that he thinks that 52% is the ‘will of the people’ and that a mandate like that should be respected.

I’m of the opinion that he’s a ****.

[Scarlett.]

Rees-Mogg has thankfully exposed himself as the spiteful toad that he is today, hopefully enough people have taken notice of his true colours.

[Alf]

Rees-Mogg has thankfully exposed himself as the spiteful toad that he is today, hopefully enough people have taken notice of his true colours.This isn't Big Brother

[Cherie]

Right but why did I put BBC on wanting The Apprentice and being met with a load of old people jabbering on about bloody nonsense

and this is why the country is in this mess, take a bit of interest and vote maybe..?

[Cherie]

Speak for yourself! The Corbynite remainers will share zero responsibility for your mess!

This is the non voters mess, no one else's

[Kazanne]

Whatever it was, all I see is a strong determined women who could have walked at anytime with nothing more than an understanding nod from the public as she went.

Bit no! She stayed, doggedly battling away to get us out this mess we got ourselves in. Doing it for us. Not herself,not her party, just us.

She hasn't shunned the desperation of her plight, nor been visibly fazed by the indignation or scorn put upon her from her greedy self serving lynch mob.

The whole world has had its say, but our prime minister has kept smiling, kept fighting like a prime minister for the people should.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Kazanne]

All them dusty ugly old ccunnts in that room :skull:

Well with responses like this ,the country will always be a mess, some people just don't care or understand the complications.

[Matthew.]

So, the vote was:

For May: 63%
Against May: 37%

Jacob Rees-Mogg is calling for the PM to resign. That’s kind of strange, given that he thinks that 52% is the ‘will of the people’ and that a mandate like that should be respected.

I’m of the opinion that he’s a ****.

what a dick

[Alf]

So, the vote was:

For May: 63%
Against May: 37%

Jacob Rees-Mogg is calling for the PM to resign. That’s kind of strange, given that he thinks that 52% is the ‘will of the people’ and that a mandate like that should be respected.

I’m of the opinion that he’s a ****.Did he also say that the MP's didn't understand what they were voting for? And that this vote was done out of racism and bigotry? Is he calling for a second vote? Or does he just have an opinion that she should resign?

[Nicky91]

200 votes backing May, 117 against her

83 vote difference that's more than i was expecting

[Crimson Dynamo]

did corbyn get a lot less just the other year?

[joeysteele]

Rees-Mogg has thankfully exposed himself as the spiteful toad that he is today, hopefully enough people have taken notice of his true colours.

I voted remain and would every time again, especially after watching this farce of a PM appointing and losing 2 of her own brexjt Ministers.
Then arrive with some deal, hardly anyone likes, even as to a heavy chunk of her own Party, in Parliament.

Never known a Government be held in contempt and pulling votes at the last minute.
It's like even a pantomime gone wrong.

For me the problem is, you cannot believe or trust a thing Mrs May says.

I have little I support as to Rees- Mogg, however he has always been solid and consistent in his view and passion to be out the EU.
With the right conditions for the UK as fits his agenda.
I don't agree with him on that but admire that he doesn't waver and has stuck to his stance on this all through.

Unlike this useless PM, who says one minute, this is the deal, there's no other, nothing can be added, changed or taken away from it.
Then says she's off to negotiate and get a piece of paper possibly for her to try to deceive Parliament and the Country again with.

Honestly, how anyone still believes a word she says is a mystery to me, after her botched election last year, which she promised would never happen until 2020.
Then her objectionable and terrible judgements as to Ministerial appointments.

Even though I'm on the opposite side of him as to leaving the EU, I'll take Rees-Mogg and his honesty any day over Mrs May's endless ignorance and political deceit.

[bots]

Getting rid of May at this point wont achieve anything, there isn't going to be another deal. To have a deal, both sides need to agree and the EU wont agree to anything else. So, if the consensus is that this deal isn't acceptable (whatever the reason) then that leaves 2 choices .... a hard brexit or don't leave. It's not difficult to understand.

I have no idea what the PM thinks she is going to achieve by delaying the commons vote on it, the result isn't going to change. It's not going to get approved. So, we either hard brexit or stay in .... that's what the people need to be given the right to choose ... and sooner rather than later.

[user104658]

Even though I'm on the opposite side of him as to leaving the EU, I'll take Rees-Mogg and his honesty any day over Mrs May's endless ignorance and political deceit.

I'd be careful what you wish for Joey, May might be utterly useless as a PM but she is still vaguely human (as Tories go). I 100% believe that Smogg would happily scrap every last penny of benefits and have children back in the workhouses if he believed he could get away with it... he's the sort of person who thinks of anyone below the upper-middle classes as little more than work dogs. He is a toxic, uncaring elitist and has been since he was old enough to hold a pencil.

[joeysteele]

I'd be careful what you wish for Joey, May might be utterly useless as a PM but she is still vaguely human (as Tories go). I 100% believe that Smogg would happily scrap every last penny of benefits and have children back in the workhouses if he believed he could get away with it... he's the sort of person who thinks of anyone below the upper-middle classes as little more than work dogs. He is a toxic, uncaring elitist and has been since he was old enough to hold a pencil.

Oh I'm not wanting him as PM.
I actually don't think any leaders we have in England are PM material.

I admire his honesty and stance re brexit.
I actually do also, even though I abhore some of his personal views, at least he doesn't hide or cover them up.

I have many Conservative voter friends and many are Conservative Party members.
I am sure from them, there's no chance of Rees-Mogg or his like, getting enough support from the mainstream fairer and decent Conservatives, to ever likely reach a Ministerial position and certainly not Leader or PM.

No I'm not wishing for him to lead government TS.
No way, don't worry.
On brexit, I admire his own honesty more however than this total waste of space, deceiving PM we currently have the misfortune to be stuck with.

[Livia]

This is the non voters mess, no one else's

Quite so, Cherie.

[The Slim Reaper]

This is the non voters mess, no one else's

I'm not even sure how this is in anyway possible. The vote may have been lost because of non-voters, but everything that has happened since that date has been solely on the backs of those that voted leave, and the government trying to action it out.

You can't get what you want, then turn around and blame others when what you voted for turned out to be the ****show it was obviously going to be all along.

Take your victory and enjoy it.

[Cherie]

I'm not even sure how this is in anyway possible. The vote may have been lost because of non-voters, but everything that has happened since that date has been solely on the backs of those that voted leave, and the government trying to action it out.

You can't get what you want, then turn around and blame others when what you voted for turned out to be the ****show it was obviously going to be all along.

Take your victory and enjoy it.

what victory is this? I voted remain :hee:

[The Slim Reaper]

what victory is this? I voted remain :hee:

Ahh ok, I thought you were a leaver; either way, it's still on the backs of the government and leavers. People bought a bill of goods so let them(and definitely not you the remainer :smug:) enjoy it.

[Cherie]

Ahh ok, I thought you were a leaver; either way, it's still on the backs of the government and leavers. People bought a bill of goods so let them(and definitely not you the remainer :smug:) enjoy it.

It affects us all though, I just don't understand what leaving is going to bring to Joe Bloggs in the street, nada as far as I can see

[The Slim Reaper]

It affects us all though, I just don't understand what leaving is going to bring to Joe Bloggs in the street, nada as far as I can see

It absolutely affects us all but what can we do? We lost, and those that voted to inflict pain on the country won. The craziest thing is that even though we've seen what a mess this is and will be, people are so wed to winning (regardless of evidence), that they'd rather force this through and to hell with the consequences, than actually reevaluating what it actually means for the country.

It's political sociopathy, narcissism, and solipsism all rolled into one. If working people are so invested in racism and xenophobia dressed up as immigration concerns, that they are prepared to adversely affect future generations of their own families then there's not a lot you can do.

[user104658]

It affects us all though, I just don't understand what leaving is going to bring to Joe Bloggs in the street, nada as far as I can see

That's the thing isn't it, it'll bring nothing (and probably take a few things away) and the benefits - if there are any - are for those at the top of the pile and in control. That's the real great shame of the Leave vote... so many genuine, normal people who actually want things to be better were lied to and made to believe that Brexit was for the good of ordinary people, so they voted for it in that hope, but "taking control away from Europe" was never to place it in the hands of ordinary people in the UK, it was to unleash those at the top who want more control for themselves. The Borises, the Rees-Moggs, et al. The fact that they are STILL adamantly pro-Brexit should be all anyone needs to know... because the idea that their interests lie with the average British citizen is just so obviously false. Boris treats the lives of millions like a game, Mogg practically spews disdain for anyone who isn't landed gentry every time he opens his floppy muppet plum mouth.

[user104658]

It absolutely affects us all but what can we do? We lost, and those that voted to inflict pain on the country won. The craziest thing is that even though we've seen what a mess this is and will be, people are so wed to winning (regardless of evidence), that they'd rather force this through and to hell with the consequences, than actually reevaluating what it actually means for the country.

It's political sociopathy, narcissism, and solipsism all rolled into one. If working people are so invested in racism and xenophobia dressed up as immigration concerns, that they are prepared to adversely affect future generations of their own families then there's not a lot you can do.

That didn't just spring up out of the ground, though, the propaganda of fear has been pushed and pushed every day for a decade or more to get people to this point. It was done deliberately and nefariously, chipping away at the public mindset, and the effects of that are now pretty clear. The same people who orchestrated that are heavily pro-Brexit and stand to gain in various ways through Brexit and that's no coincidence.

[joeysteele]

That didn't just spring up out of the ground, though, the propaganda of fear has been pushed and pushed every day for a decade or more to get people to this point. It was done deliberately and nefariously, chipping away at the public mindset, and the effects of that are now pretty clear. The same people who orchestrated that are heavily pro-Brexit and stand to gain in various ways through Brexit and that's no coincidence.

You make very strong points there TS.
I agree wholeheartedly.

[arista]

If Labour /SNP/LibDem and Some Possible Angry Conservatives
call for a No Confidence Vote
the PM could end up gone

[bots]

If Labour /SNP/LibDem and Some Possible Angry Conservatives
call for a No Confidence Vote
the PM could end up gone

the tories voting to put themselves out of a job? Nope they wont do that.

It would be a close vote but its not a certainty by any means

[Nicky91]

If Labour /SNP/LibDem and Some Possible Angry Conservatives
call for a No Confidence Vote
the PM could end up gone

Rees-Mogg leading those angry conservatives i think

[The Slim Reaper]

That didn't just spring up out of the ground, though, the propaganda of fear has been pushed and pushed every day for a decade or more to get people to this point. It was done deliberately and nefariously, chipping away at the public mindset, and the effects of that are now pretty clear. The same people who orchestrated that are heavily pro-Brexit and stand to gain in various ways through Brexit and that's no coincidence.

I agree and disagree. I agree that this has been an on-going propaganda campaign for years, but it's way longer than the last decade. However, I can't absolve people of blame for buying into it; unless the seeds were there to begin with, then bigotry doesn't flower.

You are 100% correct in those that stand to gain from this mess though. Imagine all the regulations that can be scrapped to appease more and more corporations that won't have to pay taxes, with their nice MP's as board members.

All regulations that actually protect those on the bottom rung of society are in absolute and real danger.

[Alf]

This time next year, we'll still be tied the EU and We'll be in a post democracy era. That change will come with catastrophic consequences. I wonder if that was the plan all along?

[Nicky91]

1072909865520168960

[joeysteele]

If Labour /SNP/LibDem and Some Possible Angry Conservatives
call for a No Confidence Vote
the PM could end up gone

It can't work at this time arista.
I cannot see even the harder brexit MPs supporting an opposition no confidence motion.

If the awful DUP were to indicate they'd support it or at least abstain.
Then it would have a chance.

The DUP won't bring this government down until possibly this deal gets passed.
I wouldn't trust the DUP even then.

It's sad for me a Party like the DUP now has so much influence and indeed the real power in the UK Parliament.

[Twosugars]

This time next year, we'll still be tied the EU and We'll be in a post democracy era. That change will come with catastrophic consequences. I wonder if that was the plan all along?

get off the sherry, Alf, it's not Christmas yet :rolleyes:

[Cherie]

That didn't just spring up out of the ground, though, the propaganda of fear has been pushed and pushed every day for a decade or more to get people to this point. It was done deliberately and nefariously, chipping away at the public mindset, and the effects of that are now pretty clear. The same people who orchestrated that are heavily pro-Brexit and stand to gain in various ways through Brexit and that's no coincidence.

The MPs talking about short term pain if we go out with no deal won't feel any of it

[Cherie]

I agree and disagree. I agree that this has been an on-going propaganda campaign for years, but it's way longer than the last decade. However, I can't absolve people of blame for buying into it; unless the seeds were there to begin with, then bigotry doesn't flower.

You are 100% correct in those that stand to gain from this mess though. Imagine all the regulations that can be scrapped to appease more and more corporations that won't have to pay taxes, with their nice MP's as board members.

All regulations that actually protect those on the bottom rung of society are in absolute and real danger.


I heard a stat today about the funding the North East gets from the EU can't remember the figure, an area that voted out by a mile, who will fill that funding when we are out, its like turkeys voting for Christmas

[Alf]

get off the sherry, Alf, it's not Christmas yet :rolleyes:You won't be laughing when conscription to the EU army starts.

[The Slim Reaper]

You won't be laughing when conscription to the EU army starts.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/239/110/8a8.gif

[Alf]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/239/110/8a8.gifDid you see the tanks with the EU logo on them that got sent to keep the French people in order last weekend?

[The Slim Reaper]

Did you see the tanks with the EU logo on them that got sent to keep the French people in order last weekend?

I'm missing the link to conscription though.

[Alf]

I'm missing the link to conscription though.It's inevitable, how else will they get people to join?

[Alf]

-xg7JwbJfWA

[The Slim Reaper]

It's inevitable, how else will they get people to join?

Ahh, it's inevitable? Apologies, I didn't realise.

I'd suggest that maybe, and I know this is a stretch so go with it for a minute, there would be some kind of agreement between member states to provide numbers when needed/necessary. You do realise that we already have forces in different parts of the world?

Our military doesn't go England - war - back to England.

We already have a military that doesn't require conscription, so there is a working model available.

[Twosugars]

Verhofstadt is a federalist :shrug: Doesn't mean anything. EU has always been a compromise between federalists and nationalists. It all depends. Some things are better addressed locally, some nationally and others internationally.
Of course politicians will wrestle over power, be it devolution or central government, central government or international body.
The trick is to divide these things wisely. Best so that they keep each other in check bc you can't trust any of them.

[Alf]

Verhofstadt is a federalist :shrug: Doesn't mean anything. EU has always been a compromise between federalists and nationalists. It all depends. Some things are better addressed locally, some nationally and others internationally.
Of course politicians will wrestle over power, be it devolution or central government, central government or international body.
The trick is to divide these things wisely. Best so that they keep each other in check bc you can't trust any of them.if you can't trust them, then shouldn't we have the power to elect and remove them?

[Cherie]

You won't be laughing when conscription to the EU army starts.

As a matter of interest Alf what for you as a leaver do you see as a benefit because I am struggling and I try to be open minded about it

[Twosugars]

if you can't trust them, then shouldn't we have the power to elect and remove them?
you do
eu parliament is directly elected
eu officials are chosen by national governments which are directly elected

[Alf]

As a matter of interest Alf what for you as a leaver do you see as a benefit because I am struggling and I try to be open minded about itWho knows what the benifits could be? We can all predict anything, but psychics and Crystal balls are make believe.



The future is what we make it, but we need to make it on our own, because at the moment we're only as prosperous as the other 27 countries we"re shackled to.

You"re only as strong as your weakest member.

[The Slim Reaper]

Who knows what the benifits could be? We can all predict anything, but psychics and Crystal balls are make believe.

The future is what we make it, but we need to make it on our own, because at the moment we're only as prosperous as the other 27 countries we"re shackled to.

Mate, I thought Cheries question was fair and reasonable, and I was actually interested in what your answer was going to be, but that answer is illuminating, and unfortunately not in a good way.

[Alf]

Mate, I thought Cheries question was fair and reasonable, and I was actually interested in what your answer was going to be, but that answer is illuminating, and unfortunately not in a good way.What would you like to hear?

[Twosugars]

why do you say you're strong as the weakest member?
that's not true, there're richer and poorer countries

[The Slim Reaper]

What would you like to hear?

I wouldn't like to hear anything, I just wanted your truth, which I have no doubt that you provided.

[Alf]

why do you say you're strong as the weakest member?
that's not true, there're richer and poorer countriesSo then we carry the weaker members, which holds us back and makes us weaker.

[Twosugars]

you contribute to eu, yes, but you get preferential trade access etc which generates wealth

[Alf]

you contribute to eu, yes, but you get preferential trade access etc which generates wealthWealth for whom?

In my experience, people want to take my money off me, rather than give it to me.

[Beso]

Ahh, it's inevitable? Apologies, I didn't realise.

I'd suggest that maybe, and I know this is a stretch so go with it for a minute, there would be some kind of agreement between member states to provide numbers when needed/necessary. You do realise that we already have forces in different parts of the world?

Our military doesn't go England - war - back to England.

We already have a military that doesn't require conscription, so there is a working model available.

England?

[Tom4784]

It's inevitable, how else will they get people to join?

So there's no link to that and your claims other than your mental gymnastics. Okay.

[bots]

I'm old enough to remember the UK before we even joined the common market, and believe it or not we did just fine, travelled where we wanted to, worked where we wanted to. Traded with who we wanted to.

However, the world is not the same anymore. We have a global economy that is dependent on other countries. If they fail, we fail. So being connected with them and having a shared vision is a necessity for prosperity. We will struggle without a good trade agreement with europe, be in no doubt about that. They are our cheapest market and without a good agreement with them we will suffer and a hard brexit wont help that. That is reality, and I challenge any brexiteer to disagree.

[joeysteele]

I'm old enough to remember the UK before we even joined the common market, and believe it or not we did just fine, travelled where we wanted to, worked where we wanted to. Traded with who we wanted to.

However, the world is not the same anymore. We have a global economy that is dependent on other countries. If they fail, we fail. So being connected with them and having a shared vision is a necessity for prosperity. We will struggle without a good trade agreement with europe, be in no doubt about that. They are our cheapest market and without a good agreement with them we will suffer and a hard brexit wont help that. That is reality, and I challenge any brexiteer to disagree.

That's really interesting bitontheslide.

It also ties in with a great deal older members of my family say too.
You point out a stark reality in that the World is not the same anymore as it was 40+ years ago.

Really strong content in your post.

[Twosugars]

Wealth for whom?

In my experience, people want to take my money off me, rather than give it to me.
free trade generate more profit than trade with tariffs, more profit stays in company's coffers
taxation is a different matter, very much decided by national governments and local authorities, not the eu

[Tom4784]

The problem is that we live in a world where facts are considered optional, BOTS. What you are saying is factually true, but given the Leave campaign and how effective their easily fact checked lies were, people want the lies more than they want to acknowledge the truth of the matter.

That's why people are so content to keep banging on about remain like how Trump will still bring up Hillary even now, years on from the election. It's a distraction from the realities upon us all. Why focus on the ramifications of our decisions when we can look for a scapegoat instead?

[Twosugars]

I'm old enough to remember the UK before we even joined the common market, and believe it or not we did just fine, travelled where we wanted to, worked where we wanted to. Traded with who we wanted to.

However, the world is not the same anymore. We have a global economy that is dependent on other countries. If they fail, we fail. So being connected with them and having a shared vision is a necessity for prosperity. We will struggle without a good trade agreement with europe, be in no doubt about that. They are our cheapest market and without a good agreement with them we will suffer and a hard brexit wont help that. That is reality, and I challenge any brexiteer to disagree.

the stark truth is we'll need to compromise anyway
say we do hard brexit, countries like us, india or china will want all sorts of concessions for good trade agreement and they'll know we have no choice as we won't have backing of a powerful bloc behind us
us may want access for their big pharma (I pity nhs if that happens), agriculture (gm food) etc, India may want visa restrictions lifted (more immigration here), China? who knows... it's not going to be that the world will embrace us with open arms; oh, new zealand and their lamb? what will farmers say?

the big problem is people are generally not well-informed about the eu and decades of hostile press owned by people who live abroad (and hate eu bc it has a say over their rapacious media empires) have done their damage
Some brexiteers wan't do kick the relatively benign eu not realizing it will be replaced by much more unpleasant partners

we're part of europe and should stick together, only eu can talk as equal partner to the likes of china or us

[Twosugars]

and eu army makes perfect sense
europe should not expect america to pay for its defence indefinitely
most if not all eu countries have professional, career armed forces, there's no need for conscription anyway

[Alf]

So there's no link to that and your claims other than your mental gymnastics. Okay.Very rude and sarcastic to me there, If I report you, will you ban yourself?

[Crimson Dynamo]

people want the lies more than they want to acknowledge the truth of the matter.



what utter nonsense

you literally just made that up

ironically

[Twosugars]

Very rude and sarcastic to me there, If I report you, will you ban yourself?

Not rude and sarcasm well within DS standards.
:nono: Alfred

[Alf]

Not rude and sarcasm well within DS standards.
:nono: AlfredI got banned last week for being sarcastic to Dezzy, because when I'm sarcastic, I'm apparently baiting.

And you don't get to decide what I find rude, it's 2018.

[Twosugars]

:hug:

[Beso]

I got banned last week for being sarcastic to Dezzy, because when I'm sarcastic, I'm apparently baiting.

And you don't get to decide what I find rude, it's 2018.

Which is why tibb is ****.

[Nicky91]

1073270078509105152

[Livia]

I got banned last week for being sarcastic to Dezzy, because when I'm sarcastic, I'm apparently baiting.

And you don't get to decide what I find rude, it's 2018.



The "you don't get to decide..." is always a dead giveaway.

And they ask, is TiBB dying?

[Withano]

This is the non voters mess, no one else's

The mess that is the tory government and brexit? I mean, in part, but not really anywhere near as directly as it it the tories’ and the brexiteers? Nice try but no.