'Blocking Brexit could cause far-right surge'

[Tom4784]

Blocking Brexit could lead to a surge in far-right extremism in the UK, a cabinet minister has said.

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling told the Daily Mail that not leaving the EU would cause the 17 million people who voted for Brexit to feel "cheated".

This could end centuries of "moderate" politics in the UK, he said, as he urged his colleagues to back Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal.

A vote on the agreement takes place in the Commons on Tuesday.

MPs are widely expected to reject the deal, negotiated between the EU and UK, with more than 100 Conservative MPs among those opposing it.

Some ministers have warned the UK faces Brexit "paralysis" if this happens.

'Nastiness in politics'
Just days before the critical vote, Mr Grayling, who campaigned to leave the EU, told the Daily Mail there would be a "different tone" in British politics if the UK failed to leave the EU, and predicted a "less tolerant society" and a "more nationalistic nation".

"It will open the door to extremist populist political forces in this country of the kind we see in other countries in Europe," Mr Grayling told the paper.

"If MPs who represent seats that voted 70% to leave say 'sorry guys, we're still going to have freedom of movement', they will turn against the political mainstream," he added.

"There's already a nastiness and unpleasantness in our politics, more people with extreme views, more people willing to behave in an uncivilised way," he said.

Lord Hattersley, a former deputy Labour Party leader, dismissed Mr Grayling's comments, saying not many would regard him as "an expert in these matters".

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that he did not believe a general election - which Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has pushed for - would happen.

Lord Hattersley, a minister in the Wilson and Callaghan governments, called for another referendum, saying the party had to risk losing the support of Labour supporters who voted to leave the EU in order to do the "right" thing.Mr Grayling's intervention comes after his Conservative colleagues warned about the possibility of the UK leaving the EU with no deal.

Northern Ireland Secretary Karen Bradley said a no-deal exit would create a "feeling of unrest".

Tory rebel Dominic Grieve, who tabled the amendment that led to a second government defeat on Brexit last week, urged the prime minister to delay Brexit if her EU deal was rejected by MPs.

Mr Grieve is among a group of MPs calling for another referendum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46847169

I think it's inevitable, right wing terrorism is on the rise and I don't think extreme elements will be happy no matter what happens. If Brexit gets overturned in another referendum, the extreme right will spill blood.

Still, we can't let violence dictate the course. If people aren't happy with the deal and don't want a no deal solution than the only choice is another referendum.

[Smithy]

No surprise, the far right are more of a threat to the UK now than any other perceived terrorism :bored:

[Crimson Dynamo]

bwahahaha

so Chris Grayling said it and its fact


lol

[Alf]

And remember those mobs who protested Trump coming to the UK = not extreme

Those who confronted JRM and his children at his home = not extreme

Those protesters stopping Anne Marie Waters from attending the hustings = not extreme

People trying to overturn the result of the referendum getting protested = extreme

[Alf]

No surprise, the far right are more of a threat to the UK now than any other perceived terrorism :bored:They'll be blowing up innocent children at pop concerts next, won't they?

[arista]

One MP's view.

It will not be blocked

[Withano]

Probably. The furthest of right wing people are so easily triggered that aboloshing a terrible idea will even set them off.

[Alf]

Nothing will happen if the government do their jobs correctly. Only they have the power to cause any unrest.

[Nicky91]

Nothing will happen if the government do their jobs correctly. Only they have the power to cause any unrest.

if we had fair politics yes, but these brexiteers mostly the conservatives are more interested in their own financial gain


a honest, fair brexit could work yep, with genuine desire from all sides for independence from the EU but that will never happen so this brexit was doomed to be a huge mess from the start

[Alf]

When we leave with no deal, and the remainers kick off, it will not be extreme, if the result of the referendum is sabotaged, and the leavers kick off, then that will be extreme. But I'm not partizan, honestly!

[Nicky91]

When we leave with no deal, and the remainers kick off, it will not be extreme, if the result of the referendum is sabotaged, and the leavers kick off, then that will be extreme. But I'm not partizan, honestly!

i'm sure now that a no deal brexit won't be as bad as some might think, but this is me more hoping for a peaceful and calm departure out of EU from you guys

it shouldn't need to be a reason for chaos in UK, after 29th March there should be some work done to make UK a better country

[Withano]

When we leave with no deal, and the remainers kick off, it will not be extreme, if the result of the referendum is sabotaged, and the leavers kick off, then that will be extreme. But I'm not partizan, honestly!

Would depend entirely on how they “kick off”. Lets not kid ourselves, one group often opt for peaceful protests whilst the others tend to go down the riot route though lols.

[Alf]

Would depend entirely on how they “kick off”. Lets not kid ourselves, one group often opt for peaceful protests whilst the others tend to go down the riot route though lols.Do I have to post videos of violent left wing protests to prove you wrong? Or are you gonna admit that your not being truthful?

[lime]

When we leave with no deal, and the remainers kick off, it will not be extreme, if the result of the referendum is sabotaged, and the leavers kick off, then that will be extreme. But I'm not partizan, honestly!
Make no mistake....It's a no deal from us and your goverment So lets move on
We are prepaired ..Are you ??

[Withano]

Do I have to post videos of violent left wing protests to prove you wrong? Or are you gonna admit that your not being truthful?

“Often opt”

“Tend to”

There are exceptions obvs. Its interesting that you missed those bits out when you read my posts. Almost like you’re getting defensive of these far right types :suspect:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Probably. The furthest of right wing people are so easily triggered that aboloshing a terrible idea will even set them off.

ideally if you had nailed the spelling of abolishing it would have worked much better

[Alf]

I can only think that globalist European leaders and the controlled media are pushing for war. France is on the brink right now.

[Beso]

Here for it tbh.

[lime]

I can only think that globalist European leaders and the controlled media are pushing for war. France is on the brink right now.

lol france is not on the brink of war..

how many french do you know??
As much as Steve Bannoon and Nigel Farage tour our European countries trying do Putins job....We are not going to take a Knee to putin

[lime]

Here for it tbh.

here for what may I ask?

[lime]

I can only think that globalist European leaders and the controlled media are pushing for war. France is on the brink right now.

are you really Alex Jones?

[Alf]

lol france is not on the brink of war..

how many french do you know??
As much as Steve Bannoon and Nigel Farage tour our European countries trying do Putins job....We are not going to take a Knee to putinIf I show proof of civil unrest in France right now, will you show me proof that Putin is pulling all the strings?

[Twosugars]

lol france is not on the brink of war..

how many french do you know??
As much as Steve Bannoon and Nigel Farage tour our European countries trying do Putins job....We are not going to take a Knee to putin

true

Russia's used to sponsoring disruptive movements in Europe and the world.
They used to finance communist parties and peace movement in the past.
Wonder, how many current anti-EU outfits and parties get help from Kremlin :think:
Afaik, Aaron Banks still hasn't accounted for the multi-million loan to the leave campaign...?

[lime]

If I show proof of civil unrest in France right now, will you show me proof that Puton is pulling all the strings?

No denying their is civil unrest .Me personally have no problem with peacefull protest..The vast majority of French are more than vexed with those who rip up their streert s..

Putin doesnt need to show personally how he pulls strings ...But when he carries out a chemical attack in your land you folk find it hilllarios...and you want Europe to take you seriously:joker::joker:

[Cherie]

Chris Grayling the Brexiteer said this did he :think:

its as bad now as it was before the referendum with both sides trying to panic MPs into voting one way or the other

[Alf]

No denying their is civil unrest .Me personally have no problem with peacefull protest..The vast majority of French are more than vexed with those who rip up their streert s..

Putin doesnt need to show personally how he pulls strings ...But when he carries out a chemical attack in your land you folk find it hilllarios...and you want Europe to take you seriously:joker::joker:So your answer is no, you have no proof of Putin pulling the strings, just be honest, I'll respect you more.

[reece(:]

I can see this tbh the far right wingers are typically angry and easily triggered

[Twosugars]

So your answer is no, you have no proof of Putin pulling the strings, just be honest, I'll respect you more.
only various statements by political leaders and intelligence services about that
not to mention online situation with ads and accounts from russia

the nature of all of that is covert influence not overt, so don't ask people to show you a direct trail to moscow :laugh:

and no, I cba hunting for quotes for your lazy ass, Alf, so

https://i.imgur.com/gP0tuDA.gif

[lime]

So your answer is no, you have no proof of Putin pulling the strings, just be honest, I'll respect you more.

you are right ..I have no proof putin is pulling the strings.but i am sure your mother didn't rare fools..Your own millitary said so...i don't need your respect ..Britain is your land...respect that rather than admireing Putin
:shrug::shrug:

[Alf]

I can see this tbh the far right wingers are typically angry and easily triggeredThey're not far-right wingers, they're just ordinary working class people who don't think they're being listened to.

[lime]

They're not far-right wingers, they're just ordinary working class people who don't think they're being listened to.

Think is the most rellavent word in you post

[Alf]

you are right ..I have no proof putin is pulling the strings.but i am sure your mother didn't rare fools..Your own millitary said so...i don't need your respect ..Britain is your land...respect that rather than admireing Putin
:shrug::shrug:If I respect my land, I'm labaled a racist, xenophobic, bigot.

[lime]

If I respect my land, I'm labaled a racist, xenophobic, bigot.

Now you are just being a Snowflake..respect your land...and in a repsectfull way..Stop allowing the russians to dictate you train of thought

[Alf]

Now you are just being a Snowflake..respect your land...and in a repsectfull way..Stop allowing the russians to dictate you train of thoughtWho are the people not respecting the result of the referendum in my land?

[Alf]

Now you are just being a Snowflake..respect your land...and in a repsectfull way..Stop allowing the russians to dictate you train of thoughtI can live with snowflake, it's not that damaging of an insult as far-right, racist, bigot is.

[Twosugars]

Who are the people not respecting the result of the referendum in my land?
bc it was advisory, had a slim majority and people didn't know what they voted for
the issue is too big to decide it based on some marginal angry majority

[Alf]

bc it was advisory, had a slim majority and people didn't know what they voted for
the issue is too big to decide it based on some marginal angry majoritySo what do you expect to happen in that situation?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I can see this tbh the far right wingers are typically angry and easily triggered

You dont know any and have never met any so i am not sure how you can comment?

[Crimson Dynamo]

bc it was advisory, had a slim majority and people didn't know what they voted for
the issue is too big to decide it based on some marginal angry majority

Sorry people did not know what they voted for?

Do you think that many of the people who voted remain had any idea what the EU is ?

Most thought it meant geographically leaving Europe including you going by your post history

[Alf]

Think is the most rellavent word in you postThey voted to leave the EU nearly 3 years ago, and they're still in the EU, I'd say they're in their right to think it.

[Twosugars]

Sorry people did not know what they voted for?

Do you think that many of the people who voted remain had any idea what the EU is ?

Most thought it meant geographically leaving Europe including you going by your post history
don't be silly
I didn't even respond to that post of yours claiming I confused eu with europe
I said cleary there about area of free movement of people, goods and services

[Twosugars]

So what do you expect to happen in that situation?

I expect a rerun with a majority treshhold set, say, 60%
I know you won't believe me but even if I'd voted for brexit, it'd still want a rerun. The referendum result as it stands will never be accepted by the remainers.

[Twosugars]

Sorry people did not know what they voted for?

Do you think that many of the people who voted remain had any idea what the EU is ?

Most thought it meant geographically leaving Europe including you going by your post history

...and
the remainers voted for the status quo

the big chunk for brexiters voted for lower immigration which won't happen

[lime]

You dont know any and have never met any so i am not sure how you can comment?

Sorry?? but how do know who another forum member has met in life?
and if what you say is true ..how can you say that your sure they can comment.

I have never met someone from KKK...I feel very comfortable commenting on them

[Alf]

I expect a rerun with a majority treshhold set, say, 60%
I know you won't believe me but even if I'd voted for brexit, it'd still want a rerun. The referendum result as it stands will never be accepted by the remainers.So if the result will never be accepted by the losers, why are the winners getting all the bad press?

[Braden]

I don't entirely disagree with the sentiment, but I do think this is essentially fear-mongering from Chris Grayling. Just in time for Tuesday's vote, a desperate attempt to scare people into thinking that The Prime Minister's deal is the only way out of extreme discord. I'd be inclined to agree if the deal was any good.

[Twosugars]

So if the result will never be accepted by the losers, why are the winners getting all the bad press?

there are some outlets supporting brexit

but it is alarming that no respected figure from uk or abroad advocates brexit, only right wing nutters like trump, putin etc

[Alf]

there are some outlets supporting brexit

but it is alarming that no respected figure from uk or abroad advocates brexit, only right wing nutters like trump, putin etcI know you're ignorant to this fact, but I'll say it anyway. There's many respected figures support Brexit, some people actually respect JRM, some people actually respect Trump. Just because you say they don't, doesn't make it true, because there is proof that it's not true.

[Twosugars]

I know you're ignorant to this fact, but I'll say it anyway. There's many respected figures support Brexit, some people actually respect JRM, some people actually respect Trump. Just because you say they don't, doesn't make it true, because there is proof that it's not true.

enlighten my ignorance, name all those statesmen, Nobel-prize winning economists, scientists and other experts

[Alf]

enlighten my ignorance, name all those statesmen, Nobel-prize winning economists, scientists and other expertsNo, go find them yourself.

[Underscore]

Project fear :umm2:

CANCEL IT!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sorry?? but how do know who another forum member has met in life?
and if what you say is true ..how can you say that your sure they can comment.

I have never met someone from KKK...I feel very comfortable commenting on them

That's great if I need some KKK info I will deffo come to you but this inst the time nor place a

[Twosugars]

No, go find them yourself.

There's none to find

[lime]

They voted to leave the EU nearly 3 years ago, and they're still in the EU, I'd say they're in their right to think it.
That's your problem...not ours.We as irish have made our point clear:nono::nono:

[lime]

That's great if I need some KKK info I will deffo come to you but this inst the time nor place a

Jeez and I thought my english was bad,:conf::conf::conf:

[lime]

Project fear :umm2:

CANCEL IT!
and what as you rhodesian do see as fear..Grace and Robert is too much in your ear

[Alf]

There's none to findIt's Saturday night, they're probably out.

[Wizard.]

No surprise, the far right are more of a threat to the UK now than any other perceived terrorism :bored:

What a silly thing to say. How is it 'perceived terrorism' when it is actual terrorism though?

Anyway, I do agree with Chris Grayling. The thousands of people marching London in protest of Brexit claim they want peace and globalism but don't realise that if Brexit is blocked this country would see more violence than what's been going on in France recently.

[Tom4784]

And remember those mobs who protested Trump coming to the UK = not extreme

Those who confronted JRM and his children at his home = not extreme

Those protesters stopping Anne Marie Waters from attending the hustings = not extreme

People trying to overturn the result of the referendum getting protested = extreme

Protesting isn't an extreme act but assassinating an MP most certainly is. Honestly, you should be denouncing the extreme right, not defending them by attacking the left. Tribalism isn't a good look.

[user104658]

if Brexit is blocked this country would see more violence than what's been going on in France recently.

Fake news. France has a history of violent protest; they've had several riots and incidents of civil unrest per decade since the late 1800's. It's a totally different culture. If Brexit is blocked we'll have a few OAP's grumbling while they buy their porridge, milk and Daily Mail in the morning. They'll never riot, because if they try they'll all break their hips.

[Alf]

Protesting isn't an extreme act but assassinating an MP most certainly is. Honestly, you should be denouncing the extreme right, not defending them by attacking the left. Tribalism isn't a good look.These aren't the extreme right, these are working class people who have one weapon, their vote. But their vote is not being accepted. Which leaves them with nothing, and they're angry about it.

I've already said that they are not going about it in the right way, although I'm with them on the principle of why they are there.

These are working class people who are seeing their only weapon being taken away from them, and they're scared and nobody is listening to them, and they're lashing out.

They are not far-right or fascists.

[Twosugars]

It's Saturday night, they're probably out.
that must be it
tomorrow they'll be hungover
so do your list on Monday :)

[Twosugars]

These aren't the extreme right, these are working class people who have one weapon, their vote. But their vote is not being accepted. Which leaves them with nothing, and they're angry about it.

I've already said that they are not going about it in the right way, although I'm with them on the principle of why they are there.

These are working class people who are seeing their only weapon being taken away from them, and they're scared and nobody is listening to them, and they're lashing out.

They are not far-right or fascists.

they will vote again, get yourself a decent majority and all will be fine
bet you won't though

[Alf]

they will vote again, get yourself a decent majority and all will be fine
bet you won't thoughThey already did vote again in the General Election after the referendum. They again voted to leave the EU where the offer was "no deal is better than a bad deal" we just want out and we've told you twice at the ballot box. You need to listen to us, we're not holding you hostage, we just want out.

You've seen the rise of what's labaled as right wing parties in Germany and Italy, if you don't listen to the people, then we'll probably go the same way.

[Twosugars]

like ukip? lol
it's better than ruining the country for decades to come

[Beso]

here for what may I ask?

Britain being a real life tibb....I am more perched than emu ever was.

[Alf]

like ukip? lol
it's better than ruining the country for decades to comeIt might be worse than Ukip there's a lot of jossling for position and in-fighting on this side of the argument at the moment.

UKIP was finished after the referendum result and most went and put their vote back to the mainstream, but Ukip are now still alive because the people are being deceived.

[Tom4784]

These aren't the extreme right, these are working class people who have one weapon, their vote. But their vote is not being accepted. Which leaves them with nothing, and they're angry about it.

I've already said that they are not going about it in the right way, although I'm with them on the principle of why they are there.

These are working class people who are seeing their only weapon being taken away from them, and they're scared and nobody is listening to them, and they're lashing out.

They are not far-right or fascists.

They voted for the current government to handle Brexit, they're getting what they voted for. If another referendum takes place, the result of that will be just as democratic as the last vote, it's not suddenly undemocratic just because there's a decent chance it won't go your way. The will of the people isn't static, it can change or develop otherwise there wouldn't be any point in elections or any votes. If the current deal is a no go and the option to pursue a no deal brexit is blocked then the only option is to see what the people want to do.

Also, you're just proving what I've said all along to be true, you're blinded by your sense of tribalism that you can't bring yourself to condemn the extreme elements of the right, instead you're trying to downplay it and rationalise their actions. I think Jo Cox's family would disagree with what you're saying.

[Alf]

They voted for the current government to handle Brexit, they're getting what they voted for. If another referendum takes place, the result of that will be just as democratic as the last vote, it's not suddenly undemocratic just because there's a decent chance it won't go your way. The will of the people isn't static, it can change or develop otherwise there wouldn't be any point in elections or any votes. If the current deal is a no go and the option to pursue a no deal brexit is blocked then the only option is to see what the people want to do.

Also, you're just proving what I've said all along to be true, you're blinded by your sense of tribalism that you can't bring yourself to condemn the extreme elements of the right, instead you're trying to downplay it and rationalise their actions. I think Jo Cox's family would disagree with what you're saying.Listen, you don't win the argument by bringing up Jo Cox, and if you continue to use her death for political gain, then people are just going to tell you where you can stick Jo Cox. She was murdered by one low-life scum, not 17.4m people who want to leave a union. You don't own her murder, so stop using her death to think you can win the argument.You can't win it with that against me.

[James]

The problem with a second referendum is that it is being proposed by people that supported remain before and still do. It's not being proposed by people that supported leave before and have now changed their minds. Those people are just going to think that the first vote didn't count.

It would be better for remain campaigners and MPs to get behind a compromise that still delivers a version of Brexit, whether it is this deal, or if that isn't passed, a Norway-type deal.

It won't please everyone, but that is unavoidable.

[arista]

The problem with a second referendum is that it is being proposed by people that supported remain before and still do. It's not being proposed by people that supported leave before and have now changed their minds. Those people are just going to think that the first vote didn't count.

It would be better for remain campaigners and MPs to get behind a compromise that still delivers a version of Brexit, whether it is this deal, or if that isn't passed, a Norway-type deal.

It won't please everyone, but that is unavoidable.


So far not enough backing that.

[Nicky91]

They already did vote again in the General Election after the referendum. They again voted to leave the EU where the offer was "no deal is better than a bad deal" we just want out and we've told you twice at the ballot box. You need to listen to us, we're not holding you hostage, we just want out.

You've seen the rise of what's labaled as right wing parties in Germany and Italy, if you don't listen to the people, then we'll probably go the same way.

this feels similar to a hostage situation, making demands though

[Beso]

I find it disgusting that the two opposing sides in government cant get their acts together to come together enough to deliver the will of the majority of the population.

If that's not enough to get people up protesting against this failing political system I don't know what is.

[arista]

I find it disgusting that the two opposing sides in government cant get their acts together to come together enough to deliver the will of the majority of the population.

If that's not enough to get people up protesting against this failing political system I don't know what is.


The Prime Minister is at fault
last year she changed the deal
upsetting all sides.


Corbyn was expecting
her to Leave on her early deal.

[Beso]

The Prime Minister is at fault
last year she changed the deal
upsetting all sides.


Corbyn was expecting
her to Leave on her early deal.



It should never have been left to one side to sort out a deal. Probably one of the biggest tasks this country has had to deal with in modern times...I was looking for my government to come into the modern era and come together putting all differences aside and deliver what the country both wants and needs.

[Northern Monkey]

One thing’s for sure if Brexit was overturned.People would certainly move away from the 2 main parties.They would need somewhere to turn(Those that didn’t denounce British politics totally and never vote again).
I do think that a few would turn to the new sh1tshow that is UKIP.They would gain more votes for sure but not massively,Not since Gerard Batten took over and recruited Tommy Robinson.UKIP has thrown away all credibility now.
For me,The Tories would split and take along the few Euro skeptics from the other parties and form a new mainstream pro leave party.They would gain traction(more than UKIP) imo.

I don’t think there’d be a massive rise to the far right in this country.I do think it would grow but not hugely.
We rejected the BNP when they were here.
I think that the main consequence would be to deter Brits from engaging in our political system.It would be seen as a joke and disenfranchise most people.
The institution of parliament would lose most of its credibility.It’s doing a good job of that currently by trying every trick in the book(literally) to stop us leaving.When the speaker of the house can’t show neutrality then it doesn’t look good.

[arista]

One thing’s for sure if Brexit was overturned.People would certainly move away from the 2 main parties.They would need somewhere to turn(Those that didn’t denounce British politics totally and never vote again).
I do think that a few would turn to the new sh1tshow that is UKIP.They would gain more votes for sure but not massively,Not since Gerard Batten took over and recruited Tommy Robinson.UKIP has thrown away all credibility now.
For me,The Tories would split and take along the few Euro skeptics from the other parties and form a new mainstream pro leave party.They would gain traction(more than UKIP) imo.

I don’t think there’d be a massive rise to the far right in this country.I do think it would grow but not hugely.
We rejected the BNP when they were here.
I think that the main consequence would be to deter Brits from engaging in our political system.It would be seen as a joke and disenfranchise most people.
The institution of parliament would lose most of its credibility.It’s doing a good job of that currently by trying every trick in the book(literally) to stop us leaving.When the speaker of the house can’t show neutrality then it doesn’t look good.


Yes Good Points NM
it is small amount.

[lime]

These aren't the extreme right, these are working class people who have one weapon, their vote. But their vote is not being accepted. Which leaves them with nothing, and they're angry about it.

I've already said that they are not going about it in the right way, although I'm with them on the principle of why they are there.

These are working class people who are seeing their only weapon being taken away from them, and they're scared and nobody is listening to them, and they're lashing out.

They are not far-right or fascists.
Oh Bless Alf ..Do you not get that is on the left who are working class ?.
your vote is accepted,...Acccept mine:shrug::shrug:

[lime]

Just for my own record..When did folk describe the far right as extreme right ?

[Wizard.]

Fake news. France has a history of violent protest; they've had several riots and incidents of civil unrest per decade since the late 1800's. It's a totally different culture. If Brexit is blocked we'll have a few OAP's grumbling while they buy their porridge, milk and Daily Mail in the morning. They'll never riot, because if they try they'll all break their hips.

That's just a very ignorant and naive statement.

[user104658]

That's just a very ignorant and naive statement.

It isn't, it's factual. Have a look at civil unrest in France over the years; the current riots are not particularly unusual.

And majority Brexit voters were over 50 and an even higher percentage over 65.

It's not a guess or an assumption; the figures are available.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2016-06-28/vote1b.png


Old, uneducated Tories. It's not a guess, it's not ignorant or naive, it is statistical fact.


If Brexit is cancelled, 50 - 70+ year olds are not going to be rioting in the streets. The idea is ludicrous. They will grumble that it's "****ing typical" to be ignored by politicians, and go on with their day. If there's any rioting, it'll be from groups who are motivated by the "controlling the borders" xenophobic aspect of the Brexit vote, and frankly, worrying about their reaction shouldn't be a factor in any decision made... because they're going to kick off anyway when we've full Brexited and immigration from Asia, Africa and the Middle East inevitably increases instead of going down as they are hoping.

[Alf]

Just for my own record..When did folk describe the far right as extreme right ?Post number 59 of this thread, 3rd line down.

Anything else?

[Crimson Dynamo]

It isn't, it's factual. Have a look at civil unrest in France over the years; the current riots are not particularly unusual.

And majority Brexit voters were over 50 and an even higher percentage over 65.

It's not a guess or an assumption; the figures are available.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2016-06-28/vote1b.png


Old, uneducated Tories. It's not a guess, it's not ignorant or naive, it is statistical fact.


If Brexit is cancelled, 50 - 70+ year olds are not going to be rioting in the streets. The idea is ludicrous. They will grumble that it's "****ing typical" to be ignored by politicians, and go on with their day. If there's any rioting, it'll be from groups who are motivated by the "controlling the borders" xenophobic aspect of the Brexit vote, and frankly, worrying about their reaction shouldn't be a factor in any decision made... because they're going to kick off anyway when we've full Brexited and immigration from Asia, Africa and the Middle East inevitably increases instead of going down as they are hoping.

You have to wonder about that 5% of UKIP voters!

[Tom4784]

Listen, you don't win the argument by bringing up Jo Cox, and if you continue to use her death for political gain, then people are just going to tell you where you can stick Jo Cox. She was murdered by one low-life scum, not 17.4m people who want to leave a union. You don't own her murder, so stop using her death to think you can win the argument.You can't win it with that against me.

'Stop using an argument I can't win against!'

She was murdered by a right wing terrorist, pretty much everyone can agree to that but it's telling you're not calling him that. You can't just disallow a point because you don't like it, argue against it instead.

Also I'm not saying 17.4 million people killed her, again, your tribalism is showing. I've said before that both brexiteers and the right need to disavow their extreme elements but you keep, conveniently so, ignoring that.

[Tom4784]

The problem with a second referendum is that it is being proposed by people that supported remain before and still do. It's not being proposed by people that supported leave before and have now changed their minds. Those people are just going to think that the first vote didn't count.

It would be better for remain campaigners and MPs to get behind a compromise that still delivers a version of Brexit, whether it is this deal, or if that isn't passed, a Norway-type deal.

It won't please everyone, but that is unavoidable.

I think you're completely wrong there.

I think there's plenty of people who voted Leave who at the time, spurred on by false promises from the brexit side who have rethought their position now that they are faced with the choice of a bad deal or a no deal exit which will be bad for everyone.

If people still feel the same way as they did before then the result won't change, the brexit side only want to block another vote because they don't think they'll win now people are faced with the ramifications of what brexit will entail. Not very democratic, is it?

People are allowed to change their minds, I personally think people should be held to their mistakes in the choices they make but it would be undemocratic to not allow a vote just because one side believes they won't win again.

If the tide has changed, I think expecting the new majority to be silent and accept a compromise that's no longer the will of the people is wrong and hypocritical.

The only real democratic option is another vote, if people still want brexit, we leave with no deal since that deal won't ever be accepted and if people change their mind then they change their mind as is their democratic prerogative. One final vote now that we aren't voting on possibilities but real options makes the most sense.

If people's belief in Brexit is as strong as brexiteers have you believe than they have nothing to fear from the democratic process.

[Alf]

'Stop using an argument I can't win against!'

She was murdered by a right wing terrorist, pretty much everyone can agree to that but it's telling you're not calling him that. You can't just disallow a point because you don't like it, argue against it instead.

Also I'm not saying 17.4 million people killed her, again, your tribalism is showing. I've said before that both brexiteers and the right need to disavow their extreme elements but you keep, conveniently so, ignoring that.They only look extreme to you, so I don't know who you want me to disavow?

Are you going to disavow Owen Jones who looks extreme to me?

Thursday night, Owen Jones was given a platform on BBC to tell the nation that Tommy Robinson is against all Muslims, Tommy is not against all Muslims, he just speaks out about the ones who commit anus crimes, like rape, fgm, terrorism ect. What's wrong with that? and why is nobody challenging Owen Jones on his lies.

The last general election proved that the far-right is not even close to being relevant, how many seats in Parliament do they have?

[Tom4784]

They only look extreme to you, so I don't know who you want me to disavow?

Are you going to disavow Owen Jones who looks extreme to me?

Thursday night, Owen Jones was given a platform on BBC to tell the nation that Tommy Robinson is against all Muslims, Tommy is not against all Muslims, he just speaks out about the ones who commit anus crimes, like rape, fgm, terrorism ect. What's wrong with that? and why is nobody challenging Owen Jones on his lies.

The last general election proved that the far-right is not even close to being relevant, how many seats in Parliament do they have?


Owen Jones is a twat and Tommy Robinson is also a massive twat, both of which lie and spread falsities for the sake of their agenda.

Trying to come at me using the left won't really work though, I don't consider myself part of the left any more. It's becoming as warped as the right in several respects.

[Oliver_W]

No-one who can comprehend what they say like Tommy Robinson or Owen Jones, using either to represent "their side" is just pointless.

[lime]

Post number 59 of this thread, 3rd line down.

Anything else?

Checekd it Wannashag ...but it doesnt explain to me how the far right is now the extreme right?:shrug::shrug:

[lime]

No-one who can comprehend what they say like Tommy Robinson or Owen Jones, using either to represent "their side" is just pointless.

Oh look..Here's Olliver that thinks babies drowing is good

[Alf]

Checekd it Wannashag ...but it doesnt explain to me how the far right is now the extreme right?:shrug::shrug:That's because you're dumb.

[lime]

That's because you're dumb.
:joker::joker::joker::joker:intelligent in put lad

[arista]

That's because you're dumb.


He is not dumb


He is clever

[Oliver_W]

Oh look..Here's Olliver that thinks babies drowing is good
And a spurious nonsequitor to you too.

[user104658]

You have to wonder about that 5% of UKIP voters!

:think: .... :suspect:... Labour spies

[Oliver_W]

I don't think at this point trying to stop Brexit would cause a far right surge - I think most of the apparent rises in the far right across Europe is mostly caused by the migration crisis not being averted efficiently, so people are voting for those they believe will sort it out. Remaining in a trade union isn't really comparable to what some on the continent are facing, so I doubt it would lead to similar results.

[user104658]

I don't think at this point trying to stop Brexit would cause a far right surge - I think most of the apparent rises in the far right across Europe is mostly caused by the migration crisis not being averted efficiently, so people are voting for those they believe will sort it out. Remaining in a trade union isn't really comparable to what some on the continent are facing, so I doubt it would lead to similar results.

Indeed, and I personally believe such a "surge" is actually more likely post-Brexit because there will be a decline in white European immigration (which those on the further right don't actually care about) and a corresponding INCREASE in immigration from further afield (which those people currently are under the illusion will be halted or stopped through Brexit).

Honestly I think there is a section of society that is going to be very, VERY upset in 5 years time when they start to realise that Brexit didn't fulfil their immigration wishes in the slightest.

[Oliver_W]

Indeed, and I personally believe such a "surge" is actually more likely post-Brexit because there will be a decline in white European immigration (which those on the further right don't actually care about) and a corresponding INCREASE in immigration from further afield (which those people currently are under the illusion will be halted or stopped through Brexit).

Honestly I think there is a section of society that is going to be very, VERY upset in 5 years time when they start to realise that Brexit didn't fulfil their immigration wishes in the slightest.

Yeah, the chain of events won't be a)no Brexit b)far right rises, but a)any form of (no/) deal which compromises our borders b)more undesirable immigration c)far right rises.

[Nicky91]

of course majority of old people chose to leave, quite selfish of them since they aren't around on this world for that long anymore, unlike the youth who voted to remain


might seem rude this post from me, but facts are facts


poor youth in UK who wanted to remain who must now be forced to live in a brexit uk :(

[user104658]

Yeah, the chain of events won't be a)no Brexit b)far right rises, but a)any form of (no/) deal which compromises our borders b)more undesirable immigration c)far right rises.

The borders don't even need to be "compromised", there will simply be more legal migration of ethnic minorities and when it comes right down to it, for many Brexit voters that's the real problem (the "erosion of British culture", as they see it) and not the legality of migration.

Economically, the country cannot and will not have vastly reduced migration numbers. We have an ageing population, it just isn't possible to dramatically reduce net migration. Leaving the EU will (almost certainly) reduce the number of European migrants and thus the "gap" will be filled with mostly Middle Eastern, Indian/Pakistani and African migrants. You can almost hear the chorus of "This ain't wot I Brexitted for!!" already.

[Crimson Dynamo]

of course majority of old people chose to leave, quite selfish of them since they aren't around on this world for that long anymore, unlike the youth who voted to remain


might seem rude this post from me, but facts are facts


poor youth in UK who wanted to remain who must now be forced to live in a brexit uk :(

Nicky the "youth" thought we were going to sail away and leave the European continent so they are still delighted to find us on the weather map every night

they will be fine as long as insta does not crash

[Nicky91]

Nicky the "youth" thought we were going to sail away and leave the European continent so they are still delighted to find us on the weather map every night

they will be fine as long as insta does not crash

i'm fine as long as there isn't chaos in UK, and you guys aren't going on and on against us in the EU

we don't want drama honestly

[arista]

This is a Fake story
no truth in it.


From a Conservative MP who Demands the PM Deal

Project Fear 2

[Livia]

Opening our borders and letting in all the trash in the world caused a rise in the far right. Shhhhh though.

[user104658]

Opening our borders and letting in all the trash in the world caused a rise in the far right. Shhhhh though.

Lovely :idc:

[bots]

if people are extremists they will continue to be extremists whether brexit is blocked or not. As an example, Nigel never stopped being an arse after the referendum, not even for a minute.

[Livia]

Lovely :idc:

You may want to pretend that we've not let anyone dubious in, and as ever, that's your right.

[Livia]

if people are extremists they will continue to be extremists whether brexit is blocked or not. As an example, Nigel never stopped being an arse after the referendum, not even for a minute.

LOL... true.

[Crimson Dynamo]

if people are extremists they will continue to be extremists whether brexit is blocked or not. As an example, Nigel never stopped being an arse after the referendum, not even for a minute.

King of consistency

:flutter:

[lime]

Britain being a real life tibb....I am more perched than emu ever was.


Ok .so eitheir my English is bad..or maybe yours is woeful:shrug::shrug:
l

[lime]

Opening our borders and letting in all the trash in the world caused a rise in the far right. Shhhhh though.
You are far right or not...no one is to blame for that....sure carry on deffering to your fellow humans as trash..I guess they have the wrong skin colour and relegion.

[Livia]

You are far right or not...no one is to blame for that....sure carry on deffering to your fellow humans as trash..I guess they have the wrong skin colour and relegion.

With respect Lime, you know nothing about me and I object to you assuming I'm racist.

I am the descendent of refugees. That doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge that this country's open door policy and our habit of allowing illegal migrants to stay, has meant that not just hard working, tax paying law abiding people have entered and sadly, we don't know exactly how many have arrived - good and bad.

[Twosugars]

It's funny how sometimes it is descendants of immigrants are the loudest opponents of immigration. Farage for example etc

[The Slim Reaper]

It's funny how sometimes it is descendants of immigrants are the loudest opponents of immigration. Farage for example etc

I can't be racist, some of my best ancestors were were foreigners!

You would think that history would have taught us by now, that when people are dehumanized to the point of being equal to waste, then we open the door for it to happen all over again.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's funny how sometimes it is descendants of immigrants are the loudest opponents of immigration. Farage for example etc

sigh

illegal immigration

he has no problem with legal immigration if controlled.

Surely you knew this? :shrug:

[lime]

With respect Lime, you know nothing about me and I object to you assuming I'm racist.

I am the descendent of refugees. That doesn't mean that I can't acknowledge that this country's open door policy and our habit of allowing illegal migrants to stay, has meant that not just hard working, tax paying law abiding people have entered and sadly, we don't know exactly how many have arrived - good and bad.

And with respect Livia your post i quoted said nothing about illegal migrants ( still think it's dreadfull to refer to illegals as trash)

I'm not sure you are a racist ...only you know that..I do however object to you refering to illegal migrants as trash....did history teach us nothing?

[Mystic Mock]

Opening our borders and letting in all the trash in the world caused a rise in the far right. Shhhhh though.

To have such a problem with European immigrants probably means that the far right was already present in the UK but was just lying dormant.

[bots]

To have such a problem with European immigrants probably means that the far right was already present in the UK but was just lying dormant.

Wanting to keep affordable housing, our benefit system and the NHS for the people who contribute to it is not a far right or extremist philosophy though, it's simple fair play

[Cherie]

Wanting to keep affordable housing, our benefit system and the NHS for the people who contribute to it is not a far right or extremist philosophy though, it's simple fair play

and it is what they do in many countries in the EU for instance Spain and no one has an issue

[Livia]

It's funny how sometimes it is descendants of immigrants are the loudest opponents of immigration. Farage for example etc

Well, Farage's family came here in the 19th Century from Germany.

My grandparents came here in 1945, from the German death camps.

I don't like being lumped in with him.

[Livia]

And with respect Livia your post i quoted said nothing about illegal migrants ( still think it's dreadfull to refer to illegals as trash)

I'm not sure you are a racist ...only you know that..I do however object to you refering to illegal migrants as trash....did history teach us nothing?

Well object away, Lime. I stand by what I said, the dregs I referred to are the dregs. The criminals the terrorists, the pickpockets... dregs.

[Livia]

I can't be racist, some of my best ancestors were were foreigners!

You would think that history would have taught us by now, that when people are dehumanized to the point of being equal to waste, then we open the door for it to happen all over again.

Honestly... you have no idea to what I'm referring, and I think that's by choice.

[Livia]

Wanting to keep affordable housing, our benefit system and the NHS for the people who contribute to it is not a far right or extremist philosophy though, it's simple fair play

But Bots, we have to let everyone in! Otherwise we're all bloody racists!

[The Slim Reaper]

Honestly... you have no idea to what I'm referring, and I think that's by choice.

We always have a choice; your choice was to use the words you did, my choice was to make a blanket statement about the state of the discourse and how some people describe other humans, and how some of those people should know more and be better.

[Tom4784]

But Bots, we have to let everyone in! Otherwise we're all bloody racists!

I generally hate this viewpoint from the right, it's just misinformation to further their agenda. It's like how the right in the US make out that gun control = banning all guns in order to completely disrupt any attempts of common sense gun control being implemented.

Nobody worth listening to on either the right, left or centre wants open borders.

[user104658]

But Bots, we have to let everyone in! Otherwise we're all bloody racists!I generally hate this viewpoint from the right, it's just misinformation to further their agenda. It's like how the right in the US make out that gun control = banning all guns in order to completely disrupt any attempts of common sense gun control being implemented.

Nobody worth listening to on either the right, left or centre wants open borders.It's a waste of time Dezzy, it doesn't matter how many times you say "sensible immigration controls are required" zitll just be met with the same old strawman sarcasm because its easier to win an argument against something made-up than to actually bother to formulate any sort of genuine reasoning.

"AHA! So you're saying you LOVE terrorists and you want them to live in your spare room! I knew it!"

[Cherie]

It's a waste of time Dezzy, it doesn't matter how many times you say "sensible immigration controls are required" zitll just be met with the same old strawman sarcasm because its easier to win an argument against something made-up than to actually bother to formulate any sort of genuine reasoning.

"AHA! So you're saying you LOVE terrorists and you want them to live in your spare room! I knew it!"

Tbf that is not mooted at all, for instance the Dover crossing where people are coming across from a safe country, and people highlight that this is not a safe way to accept immigrants, the argument is 'wouldn't you do the same in their shoes', etc etc etc

[Beso]

thank you mods.....fed up with being branded racist on here...

[user104658]

Tbf that is not mooted at all, for instance the Dover crossing where people are coming across from a safe country, and people highlight that this is not a safe way to accept immigrants, the argument is 'wouldn't you do the same in their shoes', etc etc etc

They're entirely separate arguments but I understand that not everyone gets that. You WOULD do the same in their shoes. It IS tragic that they have to undertake such dangers for the hope of a better life. Nothing in that is even suggesting that it's possible for us to accept unlimited immigrants; it's the difference between;

"Sorry, we sympathise with your situation, we know how hard life is for so many people, but unfortunately we can't take everyone in"

and

"Bleeeergh yuck! Immigrants! Trash! Turn them round!"



To clarify I suppose... it's the difference between saying that it's not logistically possible for US to take in huge numbers of migrants, and the suggestion that it's somehow immoral or wrong for THEM to try to get in... and that they deserve to be vilified or dehumanized for "daring to try" because they "should have been happy that they got to a safe country". Essentially suggesting that it's immoral for individuals to put the UK's economic concerns above the health and wellbeing of themselves and their own families... at a time when they are effectively living out of cardboard boxes. And even more bizarrely - the implication that any one of us in their situation would do the same. That if Europe was a bombed out shell and we somehow made it to a shanty town in eastern Russia, that we would just accept that as our new life, and wouldn't be trying to get to Canada, the US or Australia. That's NOT the same as saying that Canada, the US or Australia have a duty to take us in.

[lime]

Well object away, Lime. I stand by what I said, the dregs I referred to are the dregs. The criminals the terrorists, the pickpockets... dregs.
TBf Livia you have moved the goalpsts.

you started off refreing to immigrants as trash..and then went on to blame migrants for crime..You either have an opinions or not...maybe just own it ?
The oringial post of yours that I quoted was not about the "dregs" of soiceity .


You were takling about illegal migrants and referring to them as trash...take a moment and imagine the Uk didn't give your people a chance to settle...Then yor people would be illegal immigrants?

[Beso]

Livia. ..are any of "your people" available for an aging old man?

[lime]

Livia. ..are any of "your people" available for an aging old man?
Get over yourself.....you are not an aging old man nor than i am as 46yr old woman...


I know what raciisim was gang raped at 13 ...my father and my favourite Oom
Were murdered by panga gangs..
I know what it is to be murdered and raped because you are white:nono::nono:

[lime]

Livia does not hold a trump card on this matter..livia talks about the horiffic abuse her ancestors went through...she doesn't suffer herself but feels the need to call other migrants as trash

Anywayt I am listening to pink Floyd Us and Them.....maybe stomfom lite can take a day off and do the same

[Withano]

Livia does not hold a trump card on this matter..livia talks about the horiffic abuse her ancestors went through...she doesn't suffer herself but feels the need to call other migrants as trash


You’re not going mad, it is completely bizarre. ‘My immigrant status is ok because I’m great, all others are trash because I say so’. Bizarre.

[lime]

You’re not going mad, it is completely bizarre. ‘My immigrant status is ok because I’m great, all others are trash because I say so’. Bizarre.

and when is somone going to talk about what happened to us Boers in the british concertation camps..
had the benifit of speaking to my greart ouma...The only survivor of 4

[Crimson Dynamo]

and when is somone going to talk about what happened to us Boers in the british concertation camps..
had the benifit of speaking to my greart ouma...The only survivor of 4

I think Nicky made a thread last year about that but it did not get beyond page 1 as it was over 100 years ago and only Smudgie could recall any specifics

[Alf]

and when is somone going to talk about what happened to us Boers in the british concertation camps..
had the benifit of speaking to my greart ouma...The only survivor of 4I think you should be more concerned with what's happening to you boers today, than what happened before any of us was even born.

[lime]

I think Nicky made a thread last year about that but it did not get beyond page 1 as it was over 100 years ago and only Smudgie could recall any specifics
Yes and the Holocast was just yesrday:shrug:

[lime]

I think you should be more concerned with what's happening to you boers today, than what happened before any of us was even born.

I AM concered as a Boers But it is not juju and the EFF who are totally resobsible...we still as Boers have a boss mentality..we need to get over that and engage otherwise the scum likw Juju will thrive,,,,jeez did you see now even the DA are wearing berets

so are saying folks should get over WW1..pretty sure that was over 100 years ago...much like the British conertraion camps

[Smithy]

I AM concered as a Boers But it is not juju and the EFF who are totally resobsible...we still as Boers have a boss mentality..we need to get over that and engage otherwise the scum likw Juju will thrive,,,,jeez did you see now even the DA are wearing berets



What the **** does this say

[lime]

What the **** does this say

its african ****..go poilsh your nails


Nothing to see here