Actress Kate Hudson is raising her baby daughter Rani genderless

[reece(:]

Kate Hudson has revealed she's raising her three-month-old daughter Rani Rose to be 'genderless'.

The Hollywood actress, 39, says she and boyfriend Danny Fujikawa want their little girl to decide which gender she identifies with most in her own time.

Talking about finally having a sister for sons Ryder, 15, and Bingham, seven - who she had with exes Chris Robinson and Matt Bellamy respectively - Kate said her child's sex has no real baring on how she'll be brought up.

"I think you just raise your kids individually regardless - like a genderless [approach]. We still don’t know what she’s going to identify as," she told AOL.com.

However, she did reveal that Rani seems to be on the girlie side.

"I will say that, right now, she is incredibly feminine in her energy, her sounds and her way. It’s very different from the boys," she said.

"And it’s really fun to actually want to buy kids’ clothes. With the boys it was just like onesies... actually, I did pretty good with the boys. But with her it’s a whole other ball game. There’s some stuff that I’m like, “I can’t do that to her, because it’s so over-the-top.”

Kate herself was the only girl in a family of four brothers and says she was raised as a "tomboy in a spinning dress".

"My middle brother, [Boston,] who is closest to me in age, was basically my sister because I put makeup on him all the time, and I’d dress him up and he loved it," she previously said.

"But growing up as a girl with all boys, you end up with a thick skin. You really do. People say, 'Oh, your brothers must’ve really protected you.' And I’m like, 'They threw me right into the fire!'"

Kate - whose mum is Goldie Hawn - and Danny announced their pregnancy last April after just one year of dating.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/kate-hudson-raising-baby-daughter-13900015

:think:

[montblanc]

i see no problem with it as long as she doesn't overcomplicate it :skull:

[Alf]

Well that will get her some attention.

oh! It has.

It's all about attention seeking.

[Mokka]

Well that will get her some attention.

oh! It has.

It's all about attention seeking.

Well at least she has your attention :wink:

[Alf]

Well at least she has your attention :wink:Good for her, her plan worked. Meanwhile a child is being used like a fashion accessory. But who cares?

[Oliver_W]

Wow I never knew she was Goldie Hawn's daughter.

But yeah, the "genderless upbringing" thing is pretty stupid, hopefully she gives up on it before long.

[Cherie]

"I will say that, right now, she is incredibly feminine in her energy, her sounds and her way. It’s very different from the boys," she said.


Put any 3 month baby in a neutral babygro and a stranger wouldn’t be able to tell the gender

Silly woman

[smudgie]

What exactly is genderless upbringing?
I understand the theory etc, but what does it entail?

[Cherie]

What exactly is genderless upbringing?
I understand the theory etc, but what does it entail?

Not too sure tbh...

[Saph]

what kind of name is Bingham

[arista]

what kind of name is Bingham



A Town Name

[Crimson Dynamo]

attention seeking a hole

[user104658]

What exactly is genderless upbringing?

I understand the theory etc, but what does it entail?No cutesy frilly pink stuff for girls and blue for boys, no "boys toys" and "girl's toys", "princesses for girls dinosaurs for boys" etc etc.

We vaguely tried that philosophy with our first but she ended up being a total princess anyway :think:. Though I guess that's the point - it's fine for them to be whatever they want, so long as you don't push them in one specific direction.

[Cherie]

No cutesy frilly pink stuff for girls and blue for boys, no "boys toys" and "girl's toys", "princesses for girls dinosaurs for boys" etc etc.

We vaguely tried that philosophy with our first but she ended up being a total princess anyway :think:. Though I guess that's the point - it's fine for them to be whatever they want, so long as you don't push them in one specific direction.

No boys toys and girls toys so what toys do you buy then, surely you would have to buy at least some gender orientated toys otherwise how will the poor kid ever identify what they like :suspect:

[Tom4784]

I hate it when parents do this, it's not progressive or woke, they're just creating confusion for the child when, chances are, there wouldn't be any confusion for the child if they were raised typically.

Raising a child to defy gender norms and stereotypes? Yaas. Letting your child know that you'd love and support them no matter what? Yaas. Trying to explain to a child that they can pick their own gender and the complex philosophies involved? Dumb and chances are it'll just create issues that wouldn't have occurred otherwise.

If people have issues with their gender, they'll figure that out on their own, all you can do is support them but things like this are just basically forcing issues on your children for the sake of looking oh so progressive and impressive.

[smudgie]

No boys toys and girls toys so what toys do you buy then, surely you would have to buy at least some gender orientated toys otherwise how will the poor kid ever identify what they like :suspect:

Ahhh, see we have been doing it for generations then, but just didn’t need a fancy name for it.
My son never wore a dress, but he wore high heels etc and make-up ( mine of course..little beggar:fist:)
My daughter wore one frilly dress that her Nanna bought her, she wore it once when Nanna visited.
Once they were old enough to choose their own clothes they did.
Both lived in jeans and tops as toddlers, daughter wore her brothers hand me downs as well as her own.
She did wear a few stylish dresses as she got older, wouldn’t play with Barbie or Cindy, loved cuddly toys, as did son.
Both had tea sets, Lego and train sets.
Not really much difference in a lot of ways, but worlds apart in others.
The bedding sets they chose tended to be more to what their gender would favour, as in what they watched on telly.
But all down to their own choice.

[smudgie]

I hate it when parents do this, it's not progressive or woke, they're just creating confusion for the child when, chances are, there wouldn't be any confusion for the child if they were raised typically.

Raising a child to defy gender norms and stereotypes? Yaas. Letting your child know that you'd love and support them no matter what? Yaas. Trying to explain to a child that they can pick their own gender and the complex philosophies involved? Dumb and chances are it'll just create issues that wouldn't have occurred otherwise.

If people have issues with their gender, they'll figure that out on their own, all you can do is support them but things like this are just basically forcing issues on your children for the sake of looking oh so progressive and impressive.

You say it much better than me Dezzy.

[Mystic Mock]

There is nothing wrong with people having some gender stereotypes imo, as long as it's not forced on the child anyway.

If I was a parent though I'd just buy all sorts of toys for the child and see which ones they liked, for example if a boy wants to play with dolls then I would buy the boy dolls, if a girl wants to play with a Batmobile then that's what I'd get her.

As Dezzy said, this Kate woman is trying to overcomplicate things for a child that isn't even old enough to understand what gender even means.

[Kazanne]

What exactly is genderless upbringing?
I understand the theory etc, but what does it entail?

It's a strange one is she never allowed to wear a dress or play with girlie toys:shrug:

[Niamh.]

What exactly is genderless upbringing?

I understand the theory etc, but what does it entail?No idea

[user104658]

No boys toys and girls toys so what toys do you buy then, surely you would have to buy at least some gender orientated toys otherwise how will the poor kid ever identify what they like :suspect:It's not "no boys toys no girls toys" it's just whatever toy they like the look of without saying "you can't have that Jayden, that's for girls and shall turn ye ****".

So if a boy wants dolls it's not "girly", if a girl want a toolset it's not "tomboy" etc etc.

However as I said we discovered that both of our girls did naturally gravitate towards "pretty / girly" stuff so it makes me wonder if it really is hard wired to some extent :think:.

[Braden]

I don't see any problem with this at all because she's essentially allowing her child to choose how they identify through options, as opposed to 'I'm going to buy this baby girl a pink top because we all know pink equals girl', or 'I'm going to buy this baby boy a football because we all know boys want to grow up to be footballers when they're older', which still plagues our culture and society today.

I think a lot of people presume 'genderless' or 'gender-neutral' parenting means children won't be able to associate with either gender whatsoever, but I think it's just a way of saying 'I'm going to let my child be whoever they want to be'. Mary Portas did the same thing, essentially what she did was give her child options in terms of being able to play with things (or express themselves in a way) that is typically 'girly' or 'boyish'. What she found out was that her male child ended up hating dolls and wanting play with trucks, and that was that. It's not really a big deal.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I expect she will be getting the suction cups on her back and has at least 3 mindfullness books by her bedside and lives on dust and Ethiopian mule piss

[GoldHeart]

Kate Hudson sounds like a fruit loop jumping onto the bandwagon of the latest trend :bored: .

How the hell can you raise your baby as genderless at such a young age ,is she trying to confuse her kid??? :facepalm: .

And I'm still not convinced or understand the whole non binary hype

[Marsh.]

It is funny that she's all for gender neutral but then says the baby has "feminine sounds and ways". But, isn't gender neutrality about moving away from only girls do a b and c and boys do d e and f?

I'd also challenge her to tell me what's overtly feminine about a 3 month old baby?

A toddler exhibiting feminine or masculine traits, ok, but most newborns are indistinguishable in their gender. It's the pinks/blues/bows etc that they are dressed in which are used to signify it.

[Redway]

Come on.

[James]

Wow I never knew she was Goldie Hawn's daughter.

But yeah, the "genderless upbringing" thing is pretty stupid, hopefully she gives up on it before long.

Same. It always amazes me the number of famous people that turn out to have famous parents.

It's not "no boys toys no girls toys" it's just whatever toy they like the look of without saying "you can't have that Jayden, that's for girls and shall turn ye ****".

So if a boy wants dolls it's not "girly", if a girl want a toolset it's not "tomboy" etc etc.

However as I said we discovered that both of our girls did naturally gravitate towards "pretty / girly" stuff so it makes me wonder if it really is hard wired to some extent :think:.

I posted on here before about an scientific experiment that was done where newborn babies were shown a picture of a face and a shape, and it was found that girls generally showed a preference for the face and boys preferred the shape. It was meant to show that biology plays a big part in determining interests.

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9883639&postcount=19

[Marsh.]

How could you not know? I think she's the image of her mother! :eek:

[Withano]

I think the idea is to keep the child in white until they pick out a pink dress themselves, or give the child a normal brown teddybear until they pick out the action man etc.

Its more about allowing them to think their interests are normal and okay rather than ‘no, you’re a pink child, put the blue toy down you ****ing weirdo’ which i think is a cute idea.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The reason (sigh) people put pi9nk on a girl and blue on a boy is so as to avoid people saying my what a lovely baby boy when its a girl and vice versa

babies tend to look like babies and not baby boys and baby girls

its nowt to do with fecking genderising them

[Cherie]

The reason (sigh) people put pi9nk on a girl and blue on a boy is so as to avoid people saying my what a lovely baby boy when its a girl and vice versa

babies tend to look like babies and not baby boys and baby girls

its nowt to do with fecking genderising them

yes parents of newborns tend to get a bit offended if you mis gender their new little angel, they won't be picking out clothes for a while so do you keep them in beige babygros until they are 2?

[Ashley.]

So she wishes to defy stereotypes... but points out that her child is 'acting feminine'? The entire argument flies out of the window when one starts contradicting themselves. Seems as though she has absolutely no idea what she is doing or saying.

[Crimson Dynamo]

too much time and too much money makes jack a dull girl

[bots]

"look, i'm really progressive, ain't I wonderful" is what this shouts out to me.

[Niamh.]

So she wishes to defy stereotypes... but points out that her child is 'acting feminine'? The entire argument flies out of the window when one starts contradicting themselves. Seems as though she has absolutely no idea what she is doing.

I don't know why you have to not be a girl to defy stereotypes anyway, it's kind of sexist imo

[Ashley.]

I don't know why you have to not be a girl to defy stereotypes anyway, it's kind of sexist imo

It's ironic, because that is stereotypical in itself. You can be a woman and possess typical male qualities and vice versa. Assuming that you must raise a child as a boy because they're not feminine enough, or a girl because they're not masculine enough... I think all of it is pretty contradictory. All that we are going to end up with is a confused generation of young children who have no idea how to act, because they've been brought up in such ambiguous surroundings. In my best screeching old lady voice... "won't somebody please think of the children?!"

[Alf]

I think the idea is to keep the child in white until they pick out a pink dress themselves, or give the child a normal brown teddybear until they pick out the action man etc.

Its more about allowing them to think their interests are normal and okay rather than ‘no, you’re a pink child, put the blue toy down you ****ing weirdo’ which i think is a cute idea.Why put this responsibility on a child? That's the role of parent. It's a parents role to decide if their interests are normal, what if their interests aren't normal? should they just be left to it?

When they turn 16 and are able to make their own way in life, then they can do what they like, but until then, the parent is the boss and makes the decisions.

[Niamh.]

It's ironic, because that is stereotypical in itself. You can be a woman and possess typical male qualities and vice versa. Assuming that you must raise a child as a boy because they're not feminine enough, or a girl because they're not masculine enough... I think all of it is pretty contradictory. All that we are going to end up with is a confused generation of young children who have no idea how to act, because they've been brought up in such ambiguous surroundings. In my best screeching old lady voice... "won't somebody please think of the children?!"

:laugh2:

But yeah, I mean women especially and to a point men have been fighting against these stereotypes for years, it feels like we're going backwards again

[Withano]

Why put this responsibility on a child? That's the role of parent. It's a parents role to decide if their interests are normal, what if their interests aren't normal? should they just be left to it?

When they turn 16 and are able to make their own way in life, then they can do what they like, but until then, the parent is the boss and makes the decisions.

You’re basically an advert for a genderless upbringing because this post is ridiculous.

[Niamh.]

I think the idea is to keep the child in white until they pick out a pink dress themselves, or give the child a normal brown teddybear until they pick out the action man etc.

Its more about allowing them to think their interests are normal and okay rather than ‘no, you’re a pink child, put the blue toy down you ****ing weirdo’ which i think is a cute idea.

Which is great but alot of parents already do that without making a big "genderless" only wear white statement about it :laugh:

[Withano]

Which is great but alot of parents already do that without making a big "genderless" only wear white statement about it :laugh:

Well tbf, not many parents would need to make a statement about it because nobody cares what sarah from the nail salon does with her kids. We all only care now because this one is famous enough for a media outlet to report on something that a lot of parents already do.

[Alf]

You’re basically an advert for a genderless upbringing because this post is ridiculous.Yeah it's ridiculous for parents to take responsibility for their children. Instead let the 4 year olds make the decisions, after-all, they haven't even started school yet and can't even tie their shoe laces or bath themselves, but they know the score on gender.

[Ashley.]

:laugh2:

But yeah, I mean women especially and to a point men have been fighting against these stereotypes for years, it feels like we're going backwards again

Yeah. We've reverted back to the same strict male/female rules we spent most of the 20th century trying to eliminate... except now you can actually change your gender if you're not suited to it. Of course I'm not against the whole idea of transitioning as I know there are people who would genuinely benefit from it, but we shouldn't be forcing it on children at such a young age and raising them so ambiguously. It's harmful. You hear all sorts of stories about people who have transitioned and end up being so much more unhappy than before.

[Niamh.]

Well tbf, not many parents would need to make a statement about it because nobody cares what sarah from the nail salon does with her kids. We all only care now because this one is famous enough for a media outlet to report on something that a lot of parents already do.

Well, I've seen stories about non celebrities doing this aswell and it gets a similar reaction.

My point is that this is potentially damaging to how much ground we've gained trying to get rid of these gender stereotypes so it seems like a step backwards to me. Like, I'll give you an example, when I was in secondary school in the 90's, there was 2 boys in the Home Ec class. My son is 14 and he chose Home Ec as one of his options as did more than half the other boys in his year and it was perfectly normal where as before it was a "girls subject" That's a step forward imo, putting gender in strict male/female boxes again like this is focusing on stereotypes again and saying they're either male or female, that's the opposite of progression imo

[Withano]

Yeah it's ridiculous for parents to take responsibility for their children. Instead let the 4 year olds make the decisions after-all, they haven't even started school yet and can't even tie their shoe laces or bath themselves, but they know the score on gender.

So you don’t trust a 4 year old to know what toys they’d like to play with? That seems more like an issue with you than the rest of the world. Work on it.

[Alf]

So you don’t trust a 4 year old to know what toys they’d like to play with? That seems more like an issue with you than the rest of the world. Work on it.Whoever is paying for the toys will decide what toys the child will play with.

[Niamh.]

Whoever is paying for the toys will decide what toys the child will play with.

You wouldn't buy your kid whatever toy they wanted? that's a bit mean

[Niamh.]

Yeah. We've reverted back to the same strict male/female rules we spent most of the 20th century trying to eliminate... except now you can actually change your gender if you're not suited to it. Of course I'm not against the whole idea of transitioning as I know there are people who would genuinely benefit from it, but we shouldn't be forcing it on children at such a young age and raising them so ambiguously. It's harmful. You hear all sorts of stories about people who have transitioned and end up being so much more unhappy than before.

Exactly.

[Withano]

Well, I've seen stories about non celebrities doing this aswell and it gets a similar reaction.

My point is that this is potentially damaging to how much ground we've gained trying to get rid of these gender stereotypes so it seems like a step backwards to me. Like, I'll give you an example, when I was in secondary school in the 90's, there was 2 boys in the Home Ec class. My son is 14 and he chose Home Ec as one of his options as did more than half the other boys in his year and it was perfectly normal where as before it was a "girls subject" That's a step forward imo, putting gender in male/female boxes again like this is focusing on stereotypes agin and saying they're either male or female, that's the opposite of progression imo

Depends how its done... everything could be gender neutral really, letting a toddler and child believe their ideas aren’t outside socially constructed norms doesn’t seem like a bad idea at all. They’ll develop their interests long before they work out what social norms are, and they’ll be comfortable in knowing their hobbies are about them personally, and not about the societal standards... which I think is pretty cute.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you were a boy and you did Home EC (none did) you would have been beaten up and called a gay when i was at school.

Thankfully we all have moved on and boys can do home EC and get stabbed on the way home with their Apple Crumble. The stabbing can be filmed and put on youtube/twitter where children all around the world can call him a gay and rejoice in his attack via the comments.


:flutter:

[Withano]

Whoever is paying for the toys will decide what toys the child will play with.

Yeah, thats your issue. I’m not gonna help you through it because theres probably a few decades of unteaching to go through. Somebody else might spare you the time.

[Alf]

You wouldn't buy your kid whatever toy they wanted? that's a bit meanLifes tough and you can't always get what you want. I wanted all the toys in the shop, but I had to make do with whatever my parents got me.

[Niamh.]

Depends how its done... everything could be gender neutral really, letting a toddler and child believe their ideas aren’t outside socially constructed norms doesn’t seem like a bad idea at all. They’ll develop their interests long before they work out what social norms are, and they’ll be comfortable in knowing their hobbies are about them personally, and not about the societal standards... which I think is pretty cute.

mmm I mean I agree with you, kids should just be left to figure out what they like themselves whether that be clothes, colours, toys, school subjects etc, I just don't want it to be the case again of if you decide to go with the kitchen set you must be a girl, that is going backwards and that's what it sounds like when you're raising someone genderless until they decide if they like girls stuff or boys stuff. We really have come so far with this stuff since I was a kid/teen, it would be soul destroying for all that to be undone again

[Alf]

Yeah, thats your issue. I’m not gonna help you through it because theres probably a few decades of unteaching to go through. Somebody else might spare you the time.I'm not the subject matter.

[Niamh.]

Lifes tough and you can't always get what you want. I wanted all the toys in the shop, but I had to make do with whatever my parents got me.

mmhhmm

[Niamh.]

Basically Withano, what I'm asking is why can't you be a girl or boy and figure out what you like? Why do you have to be no gender until you do? It's a sexist idea and a gender stereotype enforcing one

[Withano]

mmm I mean I agree with you, kids should just be left to figure out what they like themselves whether that be clothes, colours, toys, school subjects etc, I just don't want it to be the case again of if you decide to go with kitchen set you must be a girl, that is going backwards and that's what it sounds like when you're raising someone genderless until they decide if they like girls stuff or boys stuff. We really have come so far with this stuff since I was a kid/teen, it would be soul destroying for all that to be undone again

I don’t think it would. I’d imagine genderless parenting will get more popular, people will work out that a high percentage of children will want to play with plastic kitchens, remote controlled cars, dollies, and Legos all in the same week, and people will work out that it was our socially constructed norms that pushed them towards girls or boys toys all along.

It wont be the odd few, it will be the sharp majority imo.

[Withano]

I'm not the subject matter.

Then stop talking about yourself.

[Alf]

I don’t think it would. I’d imagine genderless parenting will get more popular, people will work out that a high percentage of children will want to play with plastic kitchens, remote controlled cars, dollies, and Legos all in the same week, and people will work out that it was our socially constructed norms that pushed them towards girls or boys toys all along.

It wont be the odd few, it will be the sharp majority imo.And that's the utopia is it? That's the Heaven on Earth you're searching for?

[user104658]

The reason (sigh) people put pi9nk on a girl and blue on a boy is so as to avoid people saying my what a lovely baby boy when its a girl and vice versa

babies tend to look like babies and not baby boys and baby girls

its nowt to do with fecking genderising them

It's not about the "reason for it" though it's about whether or not it's necessary, and it's more about how that leads to male and female children being given different things and being treated differently by adults in general (which frankly, they are).

[Withano]

Basically Withano, what I'm asking is why can't you be a girl or boy and figure out what you like? Why do you have to be no gender until you do? It's a sexist idea and a gender stereotype enforcing one

Gender is something you think and feel, probably shouldnt be something the parents decide based on their childs fashion sense... should probably be something the child decides what they begin to associate themselves with an identity.

[Withano]

And that's the utopia is it? That's the Heaven on Earth you're searching for?

I mean, sooner that than have a parent tell a child they’re not allowed a toy they love because they were born the wrong sex.

[Niamh.]

Gender is something you think and feel, probably shouldnt be something the parents decide based on their childs fashion sense... should probably be something the child decides what they begin to associate themselves with an identity.

Well here's where our opinions will veer off, I just can't see how sex and gender are different

[Niamh.]

I mean, sooner that than have a parent tell a child they’re not allowed a toy they love because they were born the wrong sex.

See you've just contradicted yourself here now by saying that they like a certain toy so they must have been born in the wrong sex

[Withano]

Well here's where our opinions will veer off, I just can't see how sex and gender are different

Sex is between your legs, gender is in your head.

Usually people know they are the same gender and sex, sometimes people know they have a different gender and sex, sometimes people dont feel strongly either way.

[Withano]

See you've just contradicted yourself here now by saying that they like a certain toy so they must have been born in the wrong sex

No i strongly disagree with that... Alf said its something he’d do on page 2 something to do with his money and he decides, idk.

[Niamh.]

Sex is between your legs, gender is in your head.

Usually people know they are the same gender and sex, sometimes people know they have a different gender and sex, sometimes people dont feel strongly either way.

Alright well here is where we end up back around in circles I think.

[Withano]

Alright well here is where we end up back around in circles I think.

You almost definitely know at least one person from all three examples I used in the last post so I don’t understand why.

There are transgenders, cisgenders and agenders (and probably lots in between) on tibb alone. Them existing shouldnt be the end-all of discussion.

[user104658]

Well here's where our opinions will veer off, I just can't see how sex and gender are different

They are different though by necessity or the term "gender" wouldn't even exist. I think there's a common misconception that gender "used to mean" the same thing as sex / the terms were interchangeable, and that "over time gender has come to mean" something different.

However that isn't the case and the term "gender" was created specifically to differentiate what would traditionally be considered male / female behavioural characteristics, from biological sex. Gender refers to behaviours, and ONLY behaviours, it (by definition) has nothing to do with biology.

In other words... if "sex" and "gender" were the same thing, then the term "gender" wouldn't NEED to exist at all.

[Niamh.]

They are different though by necessity or the term "gender" wouldn't even exist. I think there's a common misconception that gender "used to mean" the same thing as sex / the terms were interchangeable, and that "over time gender has come to mean" something different.

However that isn't the case and the term "gender" was created specifically to differentiate what would traditionally be considered male / female behavioural characteristics, from biological sex. Gender refers to behaviours, and ONLY behaviours, it (by definition) has nothing to do with biology.

In other words... if "sex" and "gender" were the same thing, then the term "gender" wouldn't NEED to exist at all.

So basically gender is stereotypes.........

[user104658]

So basically gender is stereotypes.........

Well yes, that's where it gets complicated because gender essentially is (arguably) a social construct in the first place. That's where you get into much deeper history / anthropology though and trying to figure out where those social constructs came from and whether or not any of them are rooted in structurally biological / hormonal differences.

But that said, just because they're social constructs, doesn't mean that they aren't "real" in a modern context... and whether or not they're positive or negative is a debate in itself.

But yeah I don't think something can be discounted as "a real thing" just because it's of human invention. I mean, humour (beyond basic slapstick, other primates find that funny) is a human invention and where would we be without that?

[Withano]

So basically gender is stereotypes.........

Usually transgenders will typically perform better at some sterotypical tasks because of the way their brain is wired. There are differences between male and female brains. A female brain is built very similarly to an transwomans brain, and they will often share some skills that are typically harder for men and transmen.

So yes in a way? Some stereotypes exist for a reason. That probably doesnt have much to do with kids’ toys and coloured tshirts though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's not about the "reason for it" though it's about whether or not it's necessary, and it's more about how that leads to male and female children being given different things and being treated differently by adults in general (which frankly, they are).

men and women are different so I would hope they are treated differently in certain circumstances

[Niamh.]

@TS & Withano - That just confirms for me though that raising genderless children is counter active to breaking stereotypes and will end up reinforcing gender roles and limiting girls and boys. And a massive backwards step

[Withano]

@TS & Withano - That just confirms for me though that raising genderless children is counter active to breaking stereotypes and will end up reinforcing gender roles and limiting girls and boys. And a massive backwards step

Brain differences exist between men and women so avoiding picking out a pink dress for your 3 year old daughter is a massive backstep?

I don’t understand your reasoning at all.

Gender will always exist. Postponing the idea of gender until the child can understand gender wont change that. It’s either that or force gender on a child.

What actually is your solution lol. You seem to be against both.

[Niamh.]

Brain differences exist between men and women so avoiding picking out a pink dress for your 3 year old daughter is a massive backstep?

I don’t understand your reasoning at all.

Gender will always exist. Postponing the idea of gender until the child can understand gender wont change that. It’s either that or force gender on a child.

What actually is your solution lol. You seem to be against both.

Can we please talk about this without the condescension because I'm really not in the mood today.

"Brain differences exist between men and women so avoiding picking out a pink dress for your 3 year old daughter is a massive backstep?"

When did I say that? I said specifically saying some things like pink dresses are for girls so lets wait a while to see if you go for the pink dress to see if you're a girl or not is a sexist idea and a backwards step.

You seem to be against both.

Against both what? you've lost me now

[Withano]

Can we please talk about this without the condescension because I'm really not in the mood today.

"Brain differences exist between men and women so avoiding picking out a pink dress for your 3 year old daughter is a massive backstep?"

When did I say that? I said specifically saying some things like pink dresses are for girls so lets wait a while to see if you go for the pink dress to see if you're a girl or not is a sexist idea and a backwards step.

You seem to be against both.

Against both what? you've lost me now

Against both a genderless upbringing, and a gender role upbringing. Whats the solution?

[Niamh.]

Against both a genderless upbringing, and a gender role upbringing. Whats the solution?

I'm for raising girls and boys to decide what they like for themselves. Things like colours, clothes, school subjects etc should not be considered as one genders preferences or another or one sexes preference for that matter. They should be just personal tastes, down to the individual. What I'm saying is linking these things to gender at all is counter productive and sexist. I've been saying this all the way through the thread, I'm not sure what you're confused about?

[Withano]

I'm for raising girls and boys to decide what they like for themselves. Things like colours, clothes, school subjects etc should not be considered as one genders preferences or another or one sexes preference for that matter. They should be just personal tastes, down to the individual. What I'm saying is linking these things to gender at all is counter productive and sexist. I've been saying this all the way through the thread, I'm not sure what you're confused about?

Well the thread is about a genderless upbringing which is exactly what you just described, but it seemed like you turned against the idea after mine and TS’ post. Maybe you were just against anything sciency being related to gender? But theres not much anyone can do about that.

Female and transwomen brains just are better (on average) at multi-tasking, empathy and verbal expression etc because of the way the brains are built. This probably created a few stereotypes over the last few thousand years.

[chuff me dizzy]

Well that will get her some attention.

oh! It has.

It's all about attention seeking.

:clap1: Poor kid

[Crimson Dynamo]

:clap1: Poor kid

yep and she isnt even married and also she has 2 other kids by 2 different fathers


:rolleyes:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I will say that, right now, she is incredibly feminine in her energy, her sounds and her way. It’s very different from the boys," she said.


says it all really

[Niamh.]

Well the thread is about a genderless upbringing which is exactly what you just described, but it seemed like you turned against the idea after mine and TS’ post. Maybe you were just against anything sciency being related to gender? But theres not much anyone can do about that.

Female and transwomen brains just are better (on average) at multi-tasking, empathy and verbal expression etc because of the way the brains are built. This probably created a few stereotypes over the last few thousand years.

Again with the condescension Withano, come on you're better than that

[Tony Montana]

Well that will get her some attention.

oh! It has.

It's all about attention seeking.

Spot on Alf :clap1: her acting career has gone nowhere so she has to find other ways to stay relevant


Funny how she didn't do this with her first two boys

[Withano]

Again with the condescension Withano, come on you're better than that

That was genuinely trying to understand your perspective, i out it as a question because I wasnt sure. You seemed to switch your outlook straight after those posts and I dont understand why.

[Niamh.]

That was genuinely trying to understand your perspective, i out it as a question because I wasnt sure. You seemed to switch your outlook straight after those posts and I dont understand why.

I don't believe likes or dislikes are down to biology and not all science supports your stance either. I'm firmly of the belief that gender "norms" are down to socialization and should not even be a thing as we're all individuals and shouldn't be put in boxes because of our personalities or preferences

The experience of being a man is fundamentally different from the experience of being a woman. "That throws a huge wrench in the works for trying to relate the differences in brain structure to different behaviors," says David Freedman, professor of neurobiology at the University of Chicago, who was not involved in the UK study. "You can't do the controlled experiments. I don't know if you could ever come up with a group of men and a group of women where you could say, 'Well, they have an equivalent life experience and so it's valid to make the comparison.' That's what makes it super hard to really say something conclusive."

https://curiosity.com/topics/is-there-a-difference-between-male-and-female-brains-curiosity/

[Mystic Mock]

Lifes tough and you can't always get what you want. I wanted all the toys in the shop, but I had to make do with whatever my parents got me.

Can't the child be taught these life lessons once they're getting closer to 10 years old? At 4 years old you're suppose to not have a care in the world and within reason get everything that you want, not be being told about how “lifes tough” as they'll know that as they start reaching adulthood.

[Cherie]

On a practical note what would you dress an 14 month old toddler in if they showed both an interest in Thomas the Tank Engine and Barbie :think: In my experience todders will play with most things, say for argument sake they were invited to a birthday party what would you dress them in? @TS and Withano

[Alf]

If you allowed a child to eat what they want, they wouldn't eat fruit and veg. They need parental guidence.

Until the little brats can provide for themselves, then they've no right to call the shots.

[Tom4784]

If you allowed a child to eat what they want, they wouldn't eat fruit and veg. They need parental guidence.

Until the little brats can provide for themselves, then they've no right to call the shots.

Making sure your baby is eating healthily is the same as making sure they are dressed up in right clothes according to their gender?

I oppose the whole 'genderless' upbringing (it's not a big deal to let kids play with whatever toys they want and like what they like and people need to stop making out that it is) but that's a completely silly comparison to make.

[Ashley.]

If you allowed a child to eat what they want, they wouldn't eat fruit and veg. They need parental guidence.

Until the little brats can provide for themselves, then they've no right to call the shots.

That's doesn't really compare Alf. Unless you're saying that you'd feed your child only fruit and veg until they're old enough to buy their own food... in which case that would be silly.

Like Dezzy said, making sure a child is happy and healthy is unrelated to giving them a bloody toy to play with.

[Mystic Mock]

If you allowed a child to eat what they want, they wouldn't eat fruit and veg. They need parental guidence.

Until the little brats can provide for themselves, then they've no right to call the shots.

Parents deciding what food a child should eat is very different to telling a child that they can't play with a toy that they like.

[Crimson Dynamo]

by the time a kid is 4 they know exactly what toys they like and dont like

mums and dads censor by price more than anything else

[Beso]

Nothing really changes in adulthood.....men drink pints and women drink wine or gin.

[montblanc]

yep and she isnt even married and also she has 2 other kids by 2 different fathers


:rolleyes:

that's not relevant tbh

[Crimson Dynamo]

that's not relevant tbh

3 kids by 3 fathers?

i think that tells you its own tale

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nothing really changes in adulthood.....men drink pints and women drink wine or gin.

nothing worse than a woman drinking a pint

:umm2:

[Mystic Mock]

Nothing really changes in adulthood.....men drink pints and women drink wine or gin.

I definitely am a stereotype when it comes to Wine, I can't stand the stuff.

Give me Whisky, Vodka, and Rum anyday of the week.:laugh:

[user104658]

Nothing really changes in adulthood.....men drink pints and women drink wine or gin.

That proves the point more than anything though Parm, because pints are ****ing disgusting.

Or, OK, rather... I know that SOME people enjoy them, but I also know that a lot of men (especially young men) will order a pint "because that's what men order" despite not actually liking beer. I was one of them from 18 (well... 16 :umm2: ) up until about 22 when I stopped being arsed about "ordering what other blokes order" and started ordering what I actually wanted. I also knew LOADS of guys who started to admit mid-20's that they don't actually like beer and would rather drink wine, or spirits with mixer.

And I guess that's kind of the point, isn't it.

Poor souls forcing down that bloody bathwater swill instead of a delicious alcopop "cos that's wot burly blokes do, arrrr".


My other prime example is Football. ALL boys pretend to like it up until about age 12. After that, slowly some people start to admit they never were fussed for it. Do some still love it? Obviously, yes, but it starts to become apparent that a lot of kids will pretend a lot of things "to fit in with their gender peers".

[Cherie]

That proves the point more than anything though Parm, because pints are ****ing disgusting.

Or, OK, rather... I know that SOME people enjoy them, but I also know that a lot of men (especially young men) will order a pint "because that's what men order" despite not actually liking beer. I was one of them from 18 (well... 16 :umm2: ) up until about 22 when I stopped being arsed about "ordering what other blokes order" and started ordering what I actually wanted. I also knew LOADS of guys who started to admit mid-20's that they don't actually like beer and would rather drink wine, or spirits with mixer.

And I guess that's kind of the point, isn't it.

Poor souls forcing down that bloody bathwater swill instead of a delicious alcopop "cos that's wot burly blokes do, arrrr".


My other prime example is Football. ALL boys pretend to like it up until about age 12. After that, slowly some people start to admit they never were fussed for it. Do some still love it? Obviously, yes, but it starts to become apparent that a lot of kids will pretend a lot of things "to fit in with their gender peers".


That's not true at all

[Crimson Dynamo]

That proves the point more than anything though Parm, because pints are ****ing disgusting.

Or, OK, rather... I know that SOME people enjoy them, but I also know that a lot of men (especially young men) will order a pint "because that's what men order" despite not actually liking beer. I was one of them from 18 (well... 16 :umm2: ) up until about 22 when I stopped being arsed about "ordering what other blokes order" and started ordering what I actually wanted. I also knew LOADS of guys who started to admit mid-20's that they don't actually like beer and would rather drink wine, or spirits with mixer.

And I guess that's kind of the point, isn't it.

Poor souls forcing down that bloody bathwater swill instead of a delicious alcopop "cos that's wot burly blokes do, arrrr".


My other prime example is Football. ALL boys pretend to like it up until about age 12. After that, slowly some people start to admit they never were fussed for it. Do some still love it? Obviously, yes, but it starts to become apparent that a lot of kids will pretend a lot of things "to fit in with their gender peers".

to be fair TS if your old man loves football then chances are you will too, if he somehow does not like football then chances are you wont either

why some people grow up to like football AND support Celtic is really beyond me however

baffling

[Cherie]

to be fair TS if your old man loves football then chances are you will too, if he somehow does not like football then chances are you wont either

why some people grow up to like football AND support Celtic is really beyond me however

baffling

100 per cent my Dad had no interest and neither did my brother, and I knew loads of boys growing up who had no interest

[Niamh.]

That proves the point more than anything though Parm, because pints are ****ing disgusting.

Or, OK, rather... I know that SOME people enjoy them, but I also know that a lot of men (especially young men) will order a pint "because that's what men order" despite not actually liking beer. I was one of them from 18 (well... 16 :umm2: ) up until about 22 when I stopped being arsed about "ordering what other blokes order" and started ordering what I actually wanted. I also knew LOADS of guys who started to admit mid-20's that they don't actually like beer and would rather drink wine, or spirits with mixer.

And I guess that's kind of the point, isn't it.

Poor souls forcing down that bloody bathwater swill instead of a delicious alcopop "cos that's wot burly blokes do, arrrr".


My other prime example is Football. ALL boys pretend to like it up until about age 12. After that, slowly some people start to admit they never were fussed for it. Do some still love it? Obviously, yes, but it starts to become apparent that a lot of kids will pretend a lot of things "to fit in with their gender peers".

Yeah exactly because lots of these "gender norms" are just personal preferences and different tastes. It's as ridiculous to say all boys like beer as it would be to say all boys like apples

[Cherie]

On a practical note what would you dress an 14 month old toddler in if they showed both an interest in Thomas the Tank Engine and Barbie :think: In my experience todders will play with most things, say for argument sake they were invited to a birthday party what would you dress them in? @TS and Withano

Bringing this forward on the page as I am really interested in the responses if I get any that is ..

[Mystic Mock]

That proves the point more than anything though Parm, because pints are ****ing disgusting.

Or, OK, rather... I know that SOME people enjoy them, but I also know that a lot of men (especially young men) will order a pint "because that's what men order" despite not actually liking beer. I was one of them from 18 (well... 16 :umm2: ) up until about 22 when I stopped being arsed about "ordering what other blokes order" and started ordering what I actually wanted. I also knew LOADS of guys who started to admit mid-20's that they don't actually like beer and would rather drink wine, or spirits with mixer.

And I guess that's kind of the point, isn't it.

Poor souls forcing down that bloody bathwater swill instead of a delicious alcopop "cos that's wot burly blokes do, arrrr".


My other prime example is Football. ALL boys pretend to like it up until about age 12. After that, slowly some people start to admit they never were fussed for it. Do some still love it? Obviously, yes, but it starts to become apparent that a lot of kids will pretend a lot of things "to fit in with their gender peers".

I don't get why anybody would dislike/hate Football, or any Sport for that matter, but then I'm a competition buff so could watch almost anything competition related.:joker:

[Beso]

That proves the point more than anything though Parm, because pints are ****ing disgusting.

Or, OK, rather... I know that SOME people enjoy them, but I also know that a lot of men (especially young men) will order a pint "because that's what men order" despite not actually liking beer. I was one of them from 18 (well... 16 :umm2: ) up until about 22 when I stopped being arsed about "ordering what other blokes order" and started ordering what I actually wanted. I also knew LOADS of guys who started to admit mid-20's that they don't actually like beer and would rather drink wine, or spirits with mixer.

And I guess that's kind of the point, isn't it.

Poor souls forcing down that bloody bathwater swill instead of a delicious alcopop "cos that's wot burly blokes do, arrrr".


My other prime example is Football. ALL boys pretend to like it up until about age 12. After that, slowly some people start to admit they never were fussed for it. Do some still love it? Obviously, yes, but it starts to become apparent that a lot of kids will pretend a lot of things "to fit in with their gender peers".

It's like the world and it's surroundings somehow makes ya brain chicken livered...:shrug:


Not sure about the football mind..I was brought up to play and love rugby..but just at school leaving age I got into going to watch hearts with my mates..my dad never even knew..I would be away up to places like dundee and Falkirk if hearts were not at home...

I loved it, every single second..but not the 2nd hearts got at the end of my first season....Anyway I'm slavering....

I love watching rugby now and only really watch the champions league and world cups on TV nowadays as far as football is concerned....

So I've went from being forced into playing and watching rugby, to rebelling against my parents and seeking of to the football every Saturday. .to then loving my rugby again....mind that may be down to getting punched in the mouth by grimsby football hooligans the last time Scotland played England at Wembley.

[user104658]

That's not true at allOk to be fair; I'm talking about when I was a kid which is like 20+ years ago now :bawling: and "All" was an exaggeration but it was the vast majority, and any who didn't were made fun of. A lot. Maybe its even a Scottish thing but I assure you it was very real to be accused of being "a girl" or of course "a gay" if you were a boy who didn't like football. to be fair TS if your old man loves football then chances are you will too, if he somehow does not like football then chances are you wont either

why some people grow up to like football AND support Celtic is really beyond me however

bafflingMaybe as I suppose a lot of boys will get really into it to "impress" a parent? But of course, emulation of parents is a whole part of the gender divide, too. A lot of "tough guy man's man" guys do NOT like it if their son is less so and will heavily encourage "boy behaviour".

Likewise "girly mums", of course, less likely to approve of their girls being boyish in their interests.

[Twosugars]

[/B]

Bringing this forward on the page as I am really interested in the responses if I get any that is ..
want to know too, but let every parent here answer it, not just TS and Whitano

[Mokka]

Ok to be fair; I'm talking about when I was a kid which is like 20+ years ago now :bawling: and "All" was an exaggeration but it was the vast majority, and any who didn't were made fun of. A lot. Maybe its even a Scottish thing but I assure you it was very real to be accused of being "a girl" or of course "a gay" if you were a boy who didn't like football. Maybe as I suppose a lot of boys will get really into it to "impress" a parent? But of course, emulation of parents is a whole part of the gender divide, too. A lot of "tough guy man's man" guys do NOT like it if their son is less so and will heavily encourage "boy behaviour".

Likewise "girly mums", of course, less likely to approve of their girls being boyish in their interests.

My sister used to have screaming matches with her daughter for wanting to wear her favorite hockey Jersey and sweatpants to school. I didn't understand what good that would do... kids go through fads of clothing, but as long as its clean, what does it matter. You cant scream who they want to be out of them... :shrug:

[user104658]

I don't get why anybody would dislike/hate Football, or any Sport for that matter, but then I'm a competition buff so could watch almost anything competition related.:joker:

It's not about disliking football... I mean, I don't dislike football any more than I dislike any other hobby or activity, each to their own... what I dislike about football is the idea that "everyone LIKES it" and must follow it / play it / declare that they follow a team and it's "weird" not to. That was genuinely a thing when I was growing up. I successfully pretended to support my local team until I was 13 at which point I admitted that I just wasn't interested in football at all and never had been. It seems that in the teens a lot of people stop needing to conform to the same level, and branch off in their interests, which it's why it's a shame that younger kids feel like they have to "be like the others". That's a wider issue than gender as there are plenty of cross-gender examples of this too... but, there is a huge amount of expected gender conformity of "things boys do" and "things girls do".

But that doesn't mean "being genderless" or that gendered things aren't OK! Like I said, both of my daughters have gravitated towards "girly stuff" in the end without any prompting... it's not about shouting "HEY! No that's a gender stereotype you can't do that!"

Boys can like football if they like football. That's great. It's just wrong for boys to feel like they SHOULD like football if they have no interest in it, and if they don't they're "odd".

[Cherie]

want to know too, but let every parent here answer it, not just TS and Whitano

No point asking people who think this is a load of old bolloxio though :laugh:

[Cherie]

My sister used to have screaming matches with her daughter for wanting to wear her favorite hockey Jersey and sweatpants to school. I didn't understand what good that would do... kids go through fads of clothing, but as long as its clean, what does it matter. You cant scream who they want to be out of them... :shrug:


seems a stupid waste of time on your sisters behalf

[Beso]

No point asking people who think this is a load of old bolloxio though :laugh:

This thread has been chopped to bits....bit I'm. Interested as a parent to know what the question was.

[Twosugars]

No point asking people who think this is a load of old bolloxio though :laugh:
yeah, but you never know
my parents were obvs traditionalists etc but thinking back I wasn't made to conform to the male gender stereotype that much, they were sort of happy to go along with me rather than expect I'd like football, boys toys etc
So my point is there's always some room for manouvre even if you're not arsed about being "above" the gender stuff

[Beso]

What do girls do when all the boys are on ps2.

[Alf]

What do girls do when all the boys are on ps2.Put up posters of the the latest heart-throb on their bedroom wall, they're happy as Larry doing that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What do girls do when all the boys are on ps2.

jesus parmy its ps4 now!

and i will tell you what they are doing, they are snapchatting

end of

[Beso]

jesus parmy its ps4 now!

and i will tell you what they are doing, they are snapchatting

end of

Crikey...do they still do resident evil and worms? Does snapchatting involve long nails rattling on a screen accompanied by some ridiculous facial expressions?

[Zizu]

:think:



I understand the wacky Paloma Faith is doing the same thing ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beso]

Put up posters of the the latest heart-throb on their bedroom wall, they're happy as Larry doing that.

Larry grayson...Larry hagman....or in the words of jabet street porter...Red Larry yerrow larry?


Who is this larry?

[Matthew.]

I don't get why anybody would dislike/hate Football, or any Sport for that matter, but then I'm a competition buff so could watch almost anything competition related.:joker:

Football’s mind-numbingly boring imo

[Cherie]

yeah, but you never know
my parents were obvs traditionalists etc but thinking back I wasn't made to conform to the male gender stereotype that much, they were sort of happy to go along with me rather than expect I'd like football, boys toys etc
So my point is there's always some room for manouvre even if you're not arsed about being "above" the gender stuff

I think most parents are like this and if you have a boy and a girl they will play with each other toys and no one used to bat an eyelid but now the spotlight is firmly on little Johnny and Mary to see what they could/should/should not be doing, let kids be kids, they have plenty time to identify as whatever down the line

[Crimson Dynamo]

Football’s mind-numbingly boring imo

what sport do you love?

[user104658]

jesus parmy its ps4 now!

and i will tell you what they are doing, they are snapchatting

end of

TikTok LT it's 2019 :idc:

[Crimson Dynamo]

TikTok LT it's 2019 :idc:

tik what?

isnt that Chinese?

:suspect:

[Cherie]

This thread has been chopped to bits....bit I'm. Interested as a parent to know what the question was.

On a practical note what would you dress an 14 month old toddler in if they showed both an interest in Thomas the Tank Engine and Barbie In my experience todders will play with most things, say for argument sake they were invited to a birthday party what would you dress them in? @TS and Withano

[Niamh.]

What do girls do when all the boys are on ps2.Ps2? Bit behind the times there

[AnnieK]

My son is now 8 and and loves football and cars. When he was younger his favourite colour was pink, it's now blue. He still loves teddies (but would never admit that to his friends), when he was little he asked for a pram. I've never told him what he can and can't like or play with.

[Tony Montana]

Ps2? Bit behind the times there

:joker:

[Livia]

She called Rani? That's not gender-neutral for a start.

Nothing anyone does in California surprises me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

She called Rani? That's not gender-neutral for a start.

Nothing anyone does in California surprises me.

Yes

spelled Rani but pronounced Ronnie

so a lifetime of correcting people due to the stupidity of her mum

brilliant

[Livia]

Yes

spelled Rani but pronounced Ronnie

so a lifetime of correcting people due to the stupidity of her mum

brilliant

Ridiculous woman.

[Zizu]

Football’s mind-numbingly boring imo



All manner of things can be considered boring if you don't have an interest or an understanding of them ..

I find politics to be extremely boring but I have no desire to learn about it as they all appear to be corrupt in one way or another ..


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[Nicky91]

uh, don't get me wrong but if her child is genderless, it is neither her son or daughter

but without a gender, so epic fail there ''actress kate hudson is raising her baby daughter rani genderless''

or do i say something stupid now :unsure:

[Zizu]

I'm not sure what they're ( her and Paloma Faith ) doing is a wise thing to be honest ..

Life is hard enough these days without having something else to draw attention to them


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[smudgie]

My brother was never interested in football as a kid, but I loved it, both playing and watching.:shrug: Same as cricket.
I also loved playing with baby dolls, not Barbie though.