Scotland will be independent in 5 years

[Cherie]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsscotland/nicola-sturgeon-scotland-will-be-independent-in-five-years/ar-BBTqE7X?ocid=spartanntp


Nicola Sturgeon has reaffirmed her intention to call another referendum on Scottish independence once the final details of Brexit have been worked out.
The First Minister used an appearance on a US talk show over the weekend to declare her belief that a majority of Scots would back a Yes vote in a possible IndyRef2 within the next five years.
The timing of another constitutional vote has the subject of intense debate among grassroots SNP members and senior politicians in recent months, with some urging the party leader to stage a plebiscite on the issue this year, while others urge a more cautious approach.

[Nicky91]

so from brexit to UKxit

wait this was my idea few months back if i remember correctly

[TomC]

so from brexit to UKxit

wait this was my idea few months back if i remember correctly

:laugh2:

[Mystic Mock]

I'll say the same thing to Scotland as I said to the Brexiters during the Brexit Referendum.

You can't beat a bigger block than yourselves, the UK as a whole is a bigger block than Scotland individually therefore will survive a lot better initially and will get all of the better deals and trade blocks during negotiations if Scotland were to pull out of the UK, just like the UK can't beat a union of 27 other countries in negotiations.

However personally I might plan on moving to Scotland if they vote to leave just so I can escape the Tories and Labour.

[Mystic Mock]

I'll say the same thing to Scotland as I said to the Brexiters during the Brexit Referendum.

You can't beat a bigger block than yourselves, the UK as a whole is a bigger block than Scotland individually therefore will survive a lot better initially and will get all of the better deals and trade blocks during negotiations if Scotland were to pull out of the UK, just like the UK can't beat a union of 27 other countries in negotiations.

However personally I might plan on moving to Scotland if they vote to leave just so I can escape the Tories and Labour.

[bots]

if Scotland wants to be independent so be it. I don't think the SNP will find it that easy

[arista]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsscotland/nicola-sturgeon-scotland-will-be-independent-in-five-years/ar-BBTqE7X?ocid=spartanntp


Nicola Sturgeon has reaffirmed her intention to call another referendum on Scottish independence once the final details of Brexit have been worked out.
The First Minister used an appearance on a US talk show over the weekend to declare her belief that a majority of Scots would back a Yes vote in a possible IndyRef2 within the next five years.
The timing of another constitutional vote has the subject of intense debate among grassroots SNP members and senior politicians in recent months, with some urging the party leader to stage a plebiscite on the issue this year, while others urge a more cautious approach.


Hang on - Vote has to come first
can she win it?

James is not going Solo

[arista]

I'll say the same thing to Scotland as I said to the Brexiters during the Brexit Referendum.

You can't beat a bigger block than yourselves, the UK as a whole is a bigger block than Scotland individually therefore will survive a lot better initially and will get all of the better deals and trade blocks during negotiations if Scotland were to pull out of the UK, just like the UK can't beat a union of 27 other countries in negotiations.

However personally I might plan on moving to Scotland if they vote to leave just so I can escape the Tories and Labour.



Yes some Brit Folks have said the same.

[James]

Hang on - Vote has to come first
can she win it?

James is not going Solo

:thumbs:

We settled this in 2014. It's a bad idea.

[arista]

:thumbs:

We settled this in 2014. It's a bad idea.



Yes but after Brexit
the SNP in Scotland and Westminster
will be demanding a Vote.

[Tom4784]

I think it's fair to give Scotland another referendum just like I think the fair thing to do in the face of a no deal Brexit is another referendum asking whether we want a no deal exit or another option.

The situation has changed since the last referendum, the majority of Scotland didn't vote for Brexit and it's only fair they get the choice of whether or not they want to be with us or not.

Give us the choice of choosing a no deal brexit, give Scotland the choice of whether or not they want to stay with us.

[Mitchell]

I think it's fair to give Scotland another referendum just like I think the fair thing to do in the face of a no deal Brexit is another referendum asking whether we want a no deal exit or another option.

The situation has changed since the last referendum, the majority of Scotland didn't vote for Brexit and it's only fair they get the choice of whether or not they want to be with us or not.

Give us the choice of choosing a no deal brexit, give Scotland the choice of whether or not they want to stay with us or not.

This pretty much sums up my opinion

[Greg!]

Bloody hope so!

[arista]

I think it's fair to give Scotland another referendum just like I think the fair thing to do in the face of a no deal Brexit is another referendum asking whether we want a no deal exit or another option.

The situation has changed since the last referendum, the majority of Scotland didn't vote for Brexit and it's only fair they get the choice of whether or not they want to be with us or not.

Give us the choice of choosing a no deal brexit, give Scotland the choice of whether or not they want to stay with us or not.


No

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its happening

:dance2:

[Mystic Mock]

I think it's fair to give Scotland another referendum just like I think the fair thing to do in the face of a no deal Brexit is another referendum asking whether we want a no deal exit or another option.

The situation has changed since the last referendum, the majority of Scotland didn't vote for Brexit and it's only fair they get the choice of whether or not they want to be with us or not.

Give us the choice of choosing a no deal brexit, give Scotland the choice of whether or not they want to stay with us or not.

Dezzy for PM!:dance:

[Beso]

I think it's fair to give Scotland another referendum just like I think the fair thing to do in the face of a no deal Brexit is another referendum asking whether we want a no deal exit or another option.

The situation has changed since the last referendum, the majority of Scotland didn't vote for Brexit and it's only fair they get the choice of whether or not they want to be with us or not.

Give us the choice of choosing a no deal brexit, give Scotland the choice of whether or not they want to stay with us.

ALL of scotland voted as brits in the brexit vote, britain voted to leave, so britain leaves..doesnt matter if you are welsh irish english or even scottish...you voted as a brit, not as a scot or a welshman...so you exit as a brit.

[arista]

Dezzy for PM!:dance:

No he can not Hack the Top Job

[Oliver_W]

"We don't want to be in the UK, we want to make our own laws!!!! We want to be in the EU!!!"

Kay.

[Mystic Mock]

No he can not Hack the Top Job

Neither could David Cameron but it didn't stop him.:hehe:

[Matthew.]

I’d vote to become independent

[Crimson Dynamo]

Neither could David Cameron but it didn't stop him.:hehe:

:joker:

[LaLaLand]

Didn't y'all already vote and it came back a no?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Didn't y'all already vote and it came back a no?

yes and as things have changed we wish to vote again

[Cherie]

Didn't y'all already vote and it came back a no?

leaving the EU is a big thing, even though they would still be leaving the EU as they would have to reapply to join and its not a foregone conclusion they would be accepted

[Cherie]

yes and as things have changed we wish to vote again

Don't you want out of the EU though? so basically you would be voting to go back in again :think:

[arista]

Neither could David Cameron but it didn't stop him.:hehe:


David could Hack it
but Lost his Vote (Dragged a USA President of that time ,in)
destroyed his future in Parliament

[Liam-]

"We don't want to be in the UK, we want to make our own laws!!!! We want to be in the EU!!!"

Kay.

:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't you want out of the EU though? so basically you would be voting to go back in again :think:

Not quite the same but as an independent country you have to make different choices

[Captain.Remy]

Get ha out!

[bots]

yes and as things have changed we wish to vote again

but didnt you say we have already voted for brexit in a ref so we shouldnt vote again as that would be undemocratic :skull:

[Cherie]

Not quite the same but as an independent country you have to make different choices

I think it will take years for them to accept you so it will be fine, personally I would be happy for Scotland to go

[Cherie]

but didnt you say we have already voted for brexit in a ref so we shouldnt vote again as that would be undemocratic :skull:

:fan:

[Beso]

I think it will take years for them to accept you so it will be fine, personally I would be happy for Scotland to go

:bawling:

[Firewire]

I would vote yes this time around, I think a lot of people will have changed their minds

[Crimson Dynamo]

but didnt you say we have already voted for brexit in a ref so we shouldnt vote again as that would be undemocratic :skull:

totally incomparable

just because its a vote thing does not mean you can put both side by side

it just does not work

[MTVN]

Trying to reconcile LTs support for UKIP and Brexit and hostility to a second referendum with his support for the SNP and another Scottish referendum :huh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hi Scotland

do you want to be ruled by the abject wankers in the Tory or Labour party who dont give a flying fck about you and are the worst politicians on the planet?

Scotland: No id rather inject battery acid up my urethra


yes wins

[Crimson Dynamo]

Trying to reconcile LTs support for UKIP and Brexit and hostility to a second referendum with his support for the SNP and another Scottish referendum :huh:


Typical imperialist English thinking

:rolleyes:

[Cherie]

:bawling:

aw Parm you will still be my neighbour in Sasanach if you get a visa :laugh:

[arista]

Hi Scotland

do you want to be ruled by the abject wankers in the Tory or Labour party who dont give a flying fck about you and are the worst politicians on the planet?

Scotland: No id rather inject battery acid up my urethra


yes wins



Feel The Force

[Livia]

The last one, in 2014, was a "once in a lifetime" referendum.

Who knew five years represented a lifetime?

[Livia]

Trying to reconcile LTs support for UKIP and Brexit and hostility to a second referendum with his support for the SNP and another Scottish referendum :huh:

He moves in mysterious ways, MTVN.

[Beso]

aw Parm you will still be my neighbour in Sasanach if you get a visa :laugh:

Stick it up yer erse hen.:joker::joker:

[Tom4784]

ALL of scotland voted as brits in the brexit vote, britain voted to leave, so britain leaves..doesnt matter if you are welsh irish english or even scottish...you voted as a brit, not as a scot or a welshman...so you exit as a brit.

England and Wales were the majority when it came to brexit, Northern Ireland and Scotland voted Remain for the most part, It's only diplomatic that countries within the union that didn't vote for the outcome get to decide whether or not they want to go along with it or not.

[Beso]

England and Wales were the majority when it came to brexit, Northern Ireland and Scotland voted Remain for the most part, It's only diplomatic that countries within the union that didn't vote for the outcome get to decide whether or not they want to go along with it or not.

Do that then you should break it down to counties or maybe even individuals and perhaps they should decide if they go along with it!

[Toy Soldier]

Do that then you should break it down to counties or maybe even individuals and perhaps they should decide if they go along with it!Only if you consider Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to be equivalent to English counties, which is simply false.

[Beso]

Only if you consider Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to be equivalent to English counties, which is simply false.

I mean every individual voting constituency in the UK should be allowed to decide if it joins..as we voted as brits. .not as Scots or welsh etc..what I am saying is why stop at breaking it up into countries because Scotland voted remain when there were voting constituencies all over the uk that will have had the majority wanting to remain...is it fair to kick them into touch whilst allowing Scotland another vote?

[Toy Soldier]

I mean every individual voting constituency in the UK should be allowed to decide if it joins..as we voted as brits. .not as Scots or welsh etc..what I am saying is why stop at breaking it up into countries because Scotland voted remain when there were voting constituencies all over the uk that will have had the majority wanting to remain...is it fair to kick them into touch whilst allowing Scotland another vote?

"Fair" probably not but that doesn't mean it's comparable, as Scotland has its own parliament, legal system, spending, is well on the way to having a separate tax and benefits system, etc... which obviously, English counties do not.

[Cherie]

Stick it up yer erse hen.:joker::joker:

:smug:

[Livia]

Once another referendum is called we could ask TS to make a book on how long after a "leave" result will Scotland cancel free tuition fees, free elderly care, free prescriptions etc. etc.?

[Toy Soldier]

Once another referendum is called we could ask TS to make a book on how long after a "leave" result will Scotland cancel free tuition fees, free elderly care, free prescriptions etc. etc.?

At this point I'd actually lowkey advocate for only partially funded University fees (at the same level as now but allowing Universities to charge as much again covered by loan) because increased funding for Universities can only be a good thing, and I think there's a slight issue at the moment with Universities taking on more students than they can realistically teach well in order to cover costs as they can't increase fees. That said, I'd cap them at around £4k other than for intensive courses like medicine, dentistry, law, maybe heavy engineering courses etc. because the £9k fees in England for basic Arts Faculty bachelors degrees are utterly ludicrous.

I also think the situation with prescriptions is actually fine in England; free to those on low income (I'm not sure if everyone realises that this is the case in the rest of the UK. There are huge flaws with the "free for all" prescriptions model... it's a disproportionate financial burden when the money could be much better spent elsewhere in the NHS. Especially with people filling prescriptions that they don't even need, to have them sit in a medicine cupboard gathering dust. It might also make people think twice about over-using antibiotics, if they had to pay for them. I'd make an exception for people with lifelong conditions like type 1 diabetes though, with a cap on medication costs per month no matter what their income is. :hee:

Elderly care is of course a thread in itself because we (the entire western world) have an aging population and we're ALL kind of ****ed when it comes to care of the elderly and pensions :joker:.

[Niamh.]

At this point I'd actually lowkey advocate for only partially funded University fees (at the same level as now but allowing Universities to charge as much again covered by loan) because increased funding for Universities can only be a good thing, and I think there's a slight issue at the moment with Universities taking on more students than they can realistically teach well in order to cover costs as they can't increase fees. That said, I'd cap them at around £4k other than for intensive courses like medicine, dentistry, law, maybe heavy engineering courses etc. because the £9k fees in England for basic Arts Faculty bachelors degrees are utterly ludicrous.

I also think the situation with prescriptions is actually fine in England; free to those on low income (I'm not sure if everyone realises that this is the case in the rest of the UK. There are huge flaws with the "free for all" prescriptions model... it's a disproportionate financial burden when the money could be much better spent elsewhere in the NHS. Especially with people filling prescriptions that they don't even need, to have them sit in a medicine cupboard gathering dust. It might also make people think twice about over-using antibiotics, if they had to pay for them. I'd make an exception for people with lifelong conditions like type 1 diabetes though, with a cap on medication costs per month no matter what their income is. :hee:

Elderly care is of course a thread in itself because we (the entire western world) have an aging population and we're ALL kind of ****ed when it comes to care of the elderly and pensions :joker:.

Ours are capped at €3k here

[Livia]

At this point I'd actually lowkey advocate for only partially funded University fees (at the same level as now but allowing Universities to charge as much again covered by loan) because increased funding for Universities can only be a good thing, and I think there's a slight issue at the moment with Universities taking on more students than they can realistically teach well in order to cover costs as they can't increase fees. That said, I'd cap them at around £4k other than for intensive courses like medicine, dentistry, law, maybe heavy engineering courses etc. because the £9k fees in England for basic Arts Faculty bachelors degrees are utterly ludicrous.

I also think the situation with prescriptions is actually fine in England; free to those on low income (I'm not sure if everyone realises that this is the case in the rest of the UK. There are huge flaws with the "free for all" prescriptions model... it's a disproportionate financial burden when the money could be much better spent elsewhere in the NHS. Especially with people filling prescriptions that they don't even need, to have them sit in a medicine cupboard gathering dust. It might also make people think twice about over-using antibiotics, if they had to pay for them. I'd make an exception for people with lifelong conditions like type 1 diabetes though, with a cap on medication costs per month no matter what their income is. :hee:

Elderly care is of course a thread in itself because we (the entire western world) have an aging population and we're ALL kind of ****ed when it comes to care of the elderly and pensions :joker:.

That last para... it IS a thread in itself. And what a bloody mess it is. It's distressing to see how elderly and frail people are treated. Families used to take care of their own, but now everyone lives miles away from each other and let's face it, some families just don't want to take care of an elderly relative. It's a worry. It's off-topic... but it's still a worry.

[Northern Monkey]

Not a fan of neverendums but i’m not a Scot so not my business.

What do the polls say,Do Scots want a second ref?

[arista]

Not a fan of neverendums but i’m not a Scot so not my business.

What do the polls say,Do Scots want a second ref?


Under Half does


Its all to do with Brexit

[Toy Soldier]

Families used to take care of their own, but now everyone lives miles away from each other and let's face it, some families just don't want to take care of an elderly relative. It's a worry. It's off-topic... but it's still a worry.

I think changed circumstances with work are a huge factor as well... my grandparents-in-law are all over 80 now and one of her grandads needs full time care, but her parents both work full time as does her uncle who lives nearby so there's no one who even COULD be a full time carer if they wanted to. And the quality of care varies so widely from home to home it's bewildering, and doesn't even seem usually related to cost. Some NHS homes are great some are shameful. Some private places are top notch, others put on a good facade when there are eyes on them but then are just as bad as anywhere else when there's no one watching. And the costs per week are just mind-boggling.

Thankfully(...? I guess that sounds bad :umm2: ) the only relative I have that's older than my sister (36) is my dad (64)... and his new wife is 39 so he's her problem! She knew what she was getting into :hehe:. I do find it an odd choice really. I mean, I know you can't choose who you fall in love with, and he's not "old" for 64 or anything... but realistically, she's got like 5 - 10 years of a normal marriage and then 10+ of being a carer?

**** I hope my dad doesn't secretly read TiBB. Haaa...

[Toy Soldier]

What do the polls say,Do Scots want a second ref?

Probably not and the result will probably still be "no". I personally think this is premature. I don't think the question should be put to bed forever, but I do think it should be after Brexit settles and things can be assessed rationally, so 2025 and beyond. Everyone is suffering political fatigue at the moment, surely.

[Livia]

I think changed circumstances with work are a huge factor as well... my grandparents-in-law are all over 80 now and one of her grandads needs full time care, but her parents both work full time as does her uncle who lives nearby so there's no one who even COULD be a full time carer if they wanted to. And the quality of care varies so widely from home to home it's bewildering, and doesn't even seem usually related to cost. Some NHS homes are great some are shameful. Some private places are top notch, others put on a good facade when there are eyes on them but then are just as bad as anywhere else when there's no one watching. And the costs per week are just mind-boggling.

Thankfully(...? I guess that sounds bad :umm2: ) the only relative I have that's older than my sister (36) is my dad (64)... and his new wife is 39 so he's her problem! She knew what she was getting into :hehe:. I do find it an odd choice really. I mean, I know you can't choose who you fall in love with, and he's not "old" for 64 or anything... but realistically, she's got like 5 - 10 years of a normal marriage and then 10+ of being a carer?

**** I hope my dad doesn't secretly read TiBB. Haaa...


Ahh... the heart wants what the heart wants, TS. She must really love him.

[Niamh.]

I think changed circumstances with work are a huge factor as well... my grandparents-in-law are all over 80 now and one of her grandads needs full time care, but her parents both work full time as does her uncle who lives nearby so there's no one who even COULD be a full time carer if they wanted to. And the quality of care varies so widely from home to home it's bewildering, and doesn't even seem usually related to cost. Some NHS homes are great some are shameful. Some private places are top notch, others put on a good facade when there are eyes on them but then are just as bad as anywhere else when there's no one watching. And the costs per week are just mind-boggling.

Thankfully(...? I guess that sounds bad :umm2: ) the only relative I have that's older than my sister (36) is my dad (64)... and his new wife is 39 so he's her problem! She knew what she was getting into :hehe:. I do find it an odd choice really. I mean, I know you can't choose who you fall in love with, and he's not "old" for 64 or anything... but realistically, she's got like 5 - 10 years of a normal marriage and then 10+ of being a carer?

**** I hope my dad doesn't secretly read TiBB. Haaa...

That's creepily similar to my dad who is 64 and his wife is 38.......... whom I have never and will never meet either

[Toy Soldier]

That's creepily similar to my dad who is 64 and his wife is 38.......... whom I have never and will never meet either

Niamh are we secret siblings? My dad's mum was Irish :omgno:

[Niamh.]

Niamh are we secret siblings? My dad's mum was Irish :omgno:

:o


Is your dads wife French? :suspect:

[Toy Soldier]

:o


Is your dads wife French? :suspect:

No she's extremely English. Oh well, it was a shortlived dream :flutter:

[Niamh.]

No she's extremely English. Oh well, it was a shortlived dream :flutter:

:laugh:

[Nicky91]

can see this independence not going through


what i can see happening within UK is, after 29th of March bigger rivalry happening between England and Scotland, and Wales and Northern Ireland

[Toy Soldier]

can see this independence not going through


what i can see happening within UK is, after 29th of March bigger rivalry happening between England and Scotland, and Wales and Northern Ireland

Ahh yes, the age old battle between the Welsh and Northern Irish peoples. Bloody it has been, Nicky. Bloody and senseless.

[bots]

i'm looking forward to the time Scotland is independent and has a football team to be proud of :dance:

(i wont hold my breath)

[Tom4784]

Do that then you should break it down to counties or maybe even individuals and perhaps they should decide if they go along with it!

Please tell me I don't have to describe the differences between countries and counties and why your argument is ridiculous.

[Beso]

Please tell me I don't have to describe the differences between countries and counties and why your argument is ridiculous.

Oh please do....I can't wait.

[Ramsay]

Ahh yes, the age old battle between the Welsh and Northern Irish peoples. Bloody it has been, Nicky. Bloody and senseless.

:joker:

[Beso]

Doesn't matter anyway cause in this vote for brexit..jock from oban is exactly the same person as shiela from Shropshire. ...so my ridiculous argument about all being one and therefore allowing all to decide individually, rather than allowing a whole nation who didn't even vote as a nation if they want to be in eu or not is not as ridiculous as first thought...

[Toy Soldier]

Doesn't matter anyway cause in this vote for brexit..jock from oban is exactly the same person as shiela from Shropshire. ...so my ridiculous argument about all being one and therefore allowing all to decide individually, rather than allowing a whole nation who didn't even vote as a nation if they want to be in eu or not is not as ridiculous as first thought...

The issue, Parm, is that "guaranteed EU membership" was used as a major selling point by the "no" campaign during the Scottish independence vote ("Stay in the UK and you'll have EU membership; leave the UK and you might not!"). That alone is a perfectly valid reason to call a second independence vote, as it seems that the exact opposite is true: Leave the UK and have a chance at continued / renewed EU membership, stay with the UK and we're out.

[Tom4784]

Oh please do....I can't wait.

Well you see Parmy, Britain isn't so much a country as it is a union of four smaller countries. A country is really different to a county as a county is a division of land within a country. It doesn't typically govern itself, it's not independent but a part of the larger country it's situated in. Scotland and NI are not counties within England or Wales, they are countries within the United Kingdom, a union.

If a country within a union is unsatisfied with the direction the union is going, they have the option to leave.... Hmm, that sounds oddly familiar, doesn't it? Counties are not countries surprisingly enough and don't have the same rights, as for individuals, we can all leave the UK when we wish, it's this process that's known as emigrating.

[Cherie]

At this point I'd actually lowkey advocate for only partially funded University fees (at the same level as now but allowing Universities to charge as much again covered by loan) because increased funding for Universities can only be a good thing, and I think there's a slight issue at the moment with Universities taking on more students than they can realistically teach well in order to cover costs as they can't increase fees. That said, I'd cap them at around £4k other than for intensive courses like medicine, dentistry, law, maybe heavy engineering courses etc. because the £9k fees in England for basic Arts Faculty bachelors degrees are utterly ludicrous.

I also think the situation with prescriptions is actually fine in England; free to those on low income (I'm not sure if everyone realises that this is the case in the rest of the UK. There are huge flaws with the "free for all" prescriptions model... it's a disproportionate financial burden when the money could be much better spent elsewhere in the NHS. Especially with people filling prescriptions that they don't even need, to have them sit in a medicine cupboard gathering dust. It might also make people think twice about over-using antibiotics, if they had to pay for them. I'd make an exception for people with lifelong conditions like type 1 diabetes though, with a cap on medication costs per month no matter what their income is. :hee:

Elderly care is of course a thread in itself because we (the entire western world) have an aging population and we're ALL kind of ****ed when it comes to care of the elderly and pensions :joker:.

im all for it, its really not on that students in the UK end up with a 27k debt while in the same Union they exit with 12 or none

[Niamh.]

im all for it, its really not on that students in the UK end up with a 27k debt while in the same Union they exit with 12 or none

9k a year is crazy

[arista]

9k a year is crazy


Yes it may not be debt
they can do low pay work
And never Pay it back in England , that is.

[Cherie]

9k a year is crazy

Yes it may not be debt
they can do low pay work
And never Pay it back in England , that is.

I think its 9500 now lol. You have to earn 25k a year before you start paying anything back and then there is a scale, its some really small percentage that ever pays back the whole thing so its a bit stupid really, better to have a smaller fee that everyone can pay off :shrug:

this is why people in England get fed up with the Scots always moaning as their fees are subsidised by the UK taxpayer :hmph: