Keeping murderers alive.

[thesheriff443]

Does the fact that we keep murders alive, sentence them to life that does not mean they will die in prison.

Does this make the world a better place to live in?

Does not killing them make us a better person.

Would you support the death sentence being brought back.

Would the money that we spend on murders keeping them in prison supporting monitoring them after release be better spent on the victims families.

[Beso]

I would support the death sentence after a long period of incarceration first so they can dwell on their actions.

[smudgie]

I have no problem with the death penalty, but am against hanging.
My biggest concern is sending someone off that was innocent.
Unless there is 100% no doubt they committed the crime and not a possibility of a fit up or mistakes then it doesn’t sit well with me.
But putting someone to sleep humanely for murdering someone then I am all for it, providing the proof is beyond any doubt.
I don’t believe it makes us just as bad for taking their lives as they had a choice to kill or not, their victims didn’t have that luxury.

[The Slim Reaper]

The death penalty is pointless and barbaric.

[Toy Soldier]

Does the fact that we keep murders alive, sentence them to life that does not mean they will die in prison.

No, life sentences usually don't mean dying in prison unless it's multiple life sentences.

Does this make the world a better place to live in?

Having murderers in prison? I would assume so.

Does not killing them make us a better person.

Yes.

Would you support the death sentence being brought back.

No, or at least only in VERY extreme circumstances.

Would the money that we spend on murders keeping them in prison supporting monitoring them after release be better spent on the victims families.

I don't think money really helps victims families very often to be honest. Regardless, we should support the families of victims anyway.



Murder is a very broad-ranging crime, I think you're painting with pretty broad strokes here. There's obviously a pretty big difference between someone who has killed one person in say a revenge killing, and a serial killer who has targeted innocent people. "Kill all the murderers" seems pretty reckless.

[Livia]

I used to support the death penalty... until I studied law and saw how fraught with danger and opportunity for mistakes.

In my opinion a life sentence should mean, until you die. There'd be no Internet, TV or other luxuries for whole life prisoners unless they earn them. Any jop they did would have to benefit society as a whole, even if they're only walking on a treadmill to add to the National Grid.

[Denver]

Not all murderers are evil people, some do it to survive.

i only agree to a death sentence if they are clearly unhinged and 100% guilty

[Northern Monkey]

No.

The state having the legal power to kill its citizens makes me uncomfortable.

Mistakes and stitch-ups happen.With death there’s no room for appeal.



Terrorists killed in a war zone or during an attack i am not uncomfortable with being killed.

[Tom4784]

Murdering someone for murder is just dumb and hypocritical.

We are meant to be better than those we judge but responding to blood with blood doesn't make us any better, it makes us the same.

[Tom4784]

Also, the whole 'it costs money to keep them alive' argument holds little weight when you consider that, in American states where the death penalty is a thing, it's cheaper to keep someone alive for 60 (that number may be off but I'm pretty sure I read that it's around that) years than it is to sentence someone to death. There's a lot of litigation, appeals and due process involved with the Death Penalty, as there should be.

Putting someone to death isn't the cheap option.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes we should kill people, not to punish or deter but for the families who are left behind. Killing them is not murder it is the best scenario for those who are alive.

[Tom4784]

Killing someone in cold blood with the intention of doing so is very much murder, LT. It's basically the definition of it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Killing someone in cold blood with the intention of doing so is very much murder, LT. It's basically the definition of it.

their blood would not be cold until after they died. and its not murder in the same way prison is not holding someone against their will etc etc

[Tom4784]

their blood would not be cold until after they died. and its not murder in the same way prison is not holding someone against their will etc etc

Nope, still murder. You can't twist this around LT. What you are endorsing is straight up murder.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nope, still murder. You can't twist this around LT. What you are endorsing is straight up murder.

if it pleases you so

a bullet in the back of the head and then incineration - quick no fuss and cheap to implement

[Nicky91]

Killing someone in cold blood with the intention of doing so is very much murder, LT. It's basically the definition of it.

true, and murderers rotting away in jail is a better punishment for them


also if we take matters into our own hands and kill these criminals ourselves we could end up in jail

[Crimson Dynamo]

true, and murderers rotting away in jail is a better punishment for them


also if we take matters into our own hands and kill these criminals ourselves we could end up in jail

what if we kill them and dont tell anyone?

:think:

[Tom4784]

if it pleases you so

a bullet in the back of the head and then incineration - quick no fuss and cheap to implement

Yet still it's murder.

[Alf]

"Let him have it, Chris"

Derek Bentley was hanged for saying those words.

His friend Chris Craig shot a policeman dead after he said those words.

When Bentley said "Let him have it Chris" did he mean let him (the policeman) have the gun or let him have a bullet?

Obviously Bentley was wrongly hanged in 1953.

40 years later in 1993, Bentley received a posthumous Royal pardon. And in 1998 his murder conviction was quashed.


It's cases like this where the death penalty fails. So as much as I'd like to see evil monsters put down, it's for the best that they're just locked in cages for the rest of their days or until new evidence proves them not guilty.

[Marsh.]

Also, the whole 'it costs money to keep them alive' argument holds little weight when you consider that, in American states where the death penalty is a thing, it's cheaper to keep someone alive for 60 (that number may be off but I'm pretty sure I read that it's around that) years than it is to sentence someone to death. There's a lot of litigation, appeals and due process involved with the Death Penalty, as there should be.

Putting someone to death isn't the cheap option.

Not to mention it takes years, even decades, for a lot to move through Death Row so this idea that the death penalty is just tossing murderers into a fiery pit and rinsing your hands is ridiculous.

[Marsh.]

if it pleases you so

a bullet in the back of the head and then incineration - quick no fuss and cheap to implement

Except, it's not cheap and it's not quick.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Except, it's not cheap and it's not quick.

are you referring to the American legal system?

[bots]

We could remove their brains for scientific research and then keep them alive on life support .... win/win

[Marsh.]

are you referring to the American legal system?

Are you referring to no legal system and a form of vigilantism?

What about the people wrongly convicted? Them being murdered is ok on the off chance that someone who gets shot is also a murderer themselves?

[Crimson Dynamo]

A Japanese argument

This is a rather quirky argument, and not normally put forward.

Japan uses the death penalty sparingly, executing approximately 3 prisoners per year.

A unique justification for keeping capital punishment has been put forward by some Japanese psychologists who argue that it has an important psychological part to play in the life of the Japanese, who live under severe stress and pressure in the workplace.

The argument goes that the death penalty reinforces the belief that bad things happen to those who deserve it. This reinforces the contrary belief; that good things will happen to those who are 'good'.

In this way, the existence of capital punishment provides a psychological release from conformity and overwork by reinforcing the hope that there will be a reward in due time.

Oddly, this argument seems to be backed up by Japanese public opinion. Those who are in favour currently comprise 81% of the population, or that is the official statistic. Nonetheless there is also a small but increasingly vociferous abolitionist movement in Japan.

source: bbc ethics

[Marsh.]

A Japanese argument

This is a rather quirky argument, and not normally put forward.

Japan uses the death penalty sparingly, executing approximately 3 prisoners per year.

A unique justification for keeping capital punishment has been put forward by some Japanese psychologists who argue that it has an important psychological part to play in the life of the Japanese, who live under severe stress and pressure in the workplace.

The argument goes that the death penalty reinforces the belief that bad things happen to those who deserve it. This reinforces the contrary belief; that good things will happen to those who are 'good'.

In this way, the existence of capital punishment provides a psychological release from conformity and overwork by reinforcing the hope that there will be a reward in due time.

Oddly, this argument seems to be backed up by Japanese public opinion. Those who are in favour currently comprise 81% of the population, or that is the official statistic. Nonetheless there is also a small but increasingly vociferous abolitionist movement in Japan.

source: bbc ethics

:unsure: Is this supposed to be an argument for?

LT supporting conformity, brainwashing and psychological stress. :o

[Crimson Dynamo]

Kenneth E. Hartman, prisoner serving a sentence of life in prison without parole for murder and Executive Director of The Other Death Penalty Project, stated the following in his 2008 essay titled "The Other Death Penalty," available at theotherdeathpenalty.org:

"I was sentenced to the quieter, less troublesome death penalty, the one too many of those well-meaning activists bandy about as the sensible alternative to state-sanctioned execution: life without the possibility of parole…

I have often wondered if that 15 or 20 minutes of terror found to be cruel and unusual wouldn't be a better option.

There is more to it than the mere physical act of imprisonment, much more. The more than 3,000 life without parole prisoners in this state [California] also enter a rough justice kind of limbo existence. We are condemned to serve out our lives in the worst (maximum security) prisons, which otherwise are specifically designed to be punitive. This means, in practice, rehabilitative and restorative type programs, the kind of programs that can bring healing and meaning to a prisoner's life, are generally not available to us. The thinking goes that since we will never get out of prison there is no point in expending scarce resources on dead men walking…

I agree that state-sanctioned execution is morally repugnant. I do not agree that a life devoid of any possibility of restoration is a reasonable or humane alternative. It simply is not. A death penalty by any other name is as cruel, as violent, and as wrong... Both forms of the death penalty need to be discarded in a truly just society."

https://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=001017

[Tom4784]

Japan has a ****ed up view in a lot of things and they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world, I love Japan but you can't hold up many of it's soceital views as a good example of anything.

Peadophillia is not only lightly punished in Japan but it's also used as a damn marketing tool, sexual assault rates are sky high yet rarely prosecuted and work related deaths are so common that Japan is one of the few countries in a world to term their own phrase for it, Karōshi.

You've also got a pandemic in which care for the elderly is so bad that retired people are comitting crimes just so they can have a roof over their heads in prison. I won't even go into the LGBT issues since it's just bizarre how Japan is equally open to LGBT relationships but opposed to it as well.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Support for the DP in the USA is on the increase

[Elliot]

I've never understood why people draw this moral line at killing people and not locking them away from the world for the rest of their lives to dwell on their fate and actions? people clearly aren't against the death penalty because its an 'easy escape' for the criminal lol

[Tom4784]

I've never understood why people draw this moral line at killing people and not locking them away from the world for the rest of their lives to dwell on their fate and actions? people clearly aren't against the death penalty because its an 'easy escape' for the criminal lol

A life sentence can be overturned if new evidence comes to light, you can't overturn a death sentence once it's been carried out.

For me, murdering someone for murder is just hypocritical.

[Crimson Dynamo]

USA 2018

25 perps executed

Average age executed: 53 years

Average age of crime: 29 years

Average time betwixt the 2: 24 years

:skull:

[Marsh.]

Support for the DP in the USA is on the increase

I am surprised, given their Presidency and proclivity towards gun violence I was under the impression they made rational and good decisions. :smug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am surprised, given their Presidency and proclivity towards gun violence I was under the impression they made rational and good decisions. :smug:

well you love their film,tv and music output so I guess that makes you quite the fan

:pipe:

[Marsh.]

well you love their film,tv and music output so I guess that makes you quite the fan

:pipe:

They make a lot of quality TV.

Can give or take their music output.

Their movie output is 50/50.

[thesheriff443]

Yet still it's murder.

It can’t be classed as murder as it is legal in some states of America.

It’s punishment for their crimes if they never purposefully ended someone’s life then they would not be losing their life.

[Marsh.]

It can’t be classed as murder as it is legal in some states of America.

It’s punishment for their crimes if they never purposefully ended someone’s life then they would not be losing their life.

Including the wrongly convicted, you know, who never purposefully ended someone's life.

[Tom4784]

It can’t be classed as murder as it is legal in some states of America.

It’s punishment for their crimes if they never purposefully ended someone’s life then they would not be losing their life.

Killing someone and intending to do so is murder in my eyes, it doesn't matter if the backwards states still endorse it or not.

Responding to murder with murder is the ultimate hypocrisy, you can't be morally outraged about murder then endorse doing the same to the murderer, it's foolishness.

[arista]

The death penalty is pointless and barbaric.


But many want it
Parliament scared to debate it.

[The Slim Reaper]

But many want it
Parliament scared to debate it.

Who gives a ****? People have all kind of ridiculous, selfish, and backward wants. Should we pander to all of them?

[Cherie]

No too many innocents have been incarcerated in the past

[Kazanne]

Does the fact that we keep murders alive, sentence them to life that does not mean they will die in prison.

Does this make the world a better place to live in?

Does not killing them make us a better person.

Would you support the death sentence being brought back.

Would the money that we spend on murders keeping them in prison supporting monitoring them after release be better spent on the victims families.

We could use them to experiment on,much better than using beautiful animals.
They could then give back to society what they took away.

[Tom4784]

Yeah, encouraging human testing on people against their will, that's not some 1984 dictatorship level bull**** at all...

I think conversations like this always reveal what people are truly like because it shows how malicious and monstrous a person can be when they think they won't be judged for it.

[joeysteele]

I don't support the death penalty.

There are cases where I would lose no sleep at all if the murderers were executed.
However, there is no way I could support the return of the death penalty.

I agree with Livia when she points out the error element and I further agree that in prison, conditions should be harsher.

[Crimson Dynamo]

so its fine we lock up innocent people but not that we kill them?

nice

[Redway]

so its fine we lock up innocent people but not that we kill them?

nice

One’s reversible, the other isn’t.

[Beso]

I changed my mind to depends on the crime....some sadistic people, obviously need somehow to feel the pain they have caused on innocent people....


To explain this I can only draw on the experience of watching horrid **** on the Web, like isis videos or Mexican stuff...I felt less horrified by videos of rapists and child killers being brutalised than I did captured soldiers from whatever side....


I don't watch **** like that anymore, or say if a guy had killed my son with one punch I wouldn't be wanting him put to death for that.


But you know the script, nasty nasty crimes and the criminals need put down like a biting dog.

[Beso]

The bradys should have been hung on the spot, if only to save the parents of the children to hear their name ever mentioned again.


It ain't our business that they did that, or any other child killer. That is such a private matter that it should never be made public..if possible.

The punishment in cases like that; or this case in bute (I think) should, and would if I had my way, be solely down to the parents judgement within a three year period.

[Marsh.]

I don't watch **** like that anymore, or say if a guy had killed my son with one punch I wouldn't be wanting him put to death for that.

But in cases like that, wouldn't he be charged with manslaughter.

Murder is about intent.

[Beso]

True..

[Beso]

I would probably want him charged with murder if I am honest....sorry.

[Marsh.]

Well, there's a difference between what you would want him charged with and what he can and would be. :joker:

[Livia]

One thing I do believe is that all prisoners should be put to work. Not punishing work, not rock breaking... but valid work that benefits the community in some way and that would give them a skill to sell when (or if) they gt out. And pay them for it... so the harder they work the more privileges they can get. Unless they're studying... properly studying... not Media studies, something useful.. in which case they should be supported.

[Vicky.]

I see the death penalty of people basically getting away with their crimes unpunished. I get why some think its the ultimate punishment, but honestly, if I had a choice between dying or being locked up in say a supermax for life (meaning actual life) I would chose dying everyday. I would not bother with all the appealing at all..just get it over with quickly.

[thesheriff443]

Do people actually think that some one kills some one will feel guilty or sorry

[Marsh.]

Do people actually think that some one kills some one will feel guilty or sorry

Who said that?

[Twosugars]

We could use them to experiment on,much better than using beautiful animals.
They could then give back to society what they took away.

:eek:
:facepalm:

[Toy Soldier]

Do people actually think that some one kills some one will feel guilty or sorryPlenty of murderers feel guilt and remorse, it's just incorrect to try to suggest that every person who has killed another person is a sociopath.