Official Channel 4 statement - Emily

[Amy]

Contestant Emily Parr was removed from the Big Brother house in the early hours of this morning (7th June) after using a racially offensive word to a fellow housemate.

Emily was dancing with Charley and Nicky in the living room of the Big Brother house at approximately 8.30pm last night (Wednesday 6th June) when she was heard to say “Are you pushing it out you n****r?” to Charley.

Emily immediately made clear that she had not intended to offend and that the comment had been meant as a joke. In discussing what she had said, Charley and Nicky agreed that they were not personally offended, although both did express shock at the language she had used. In the ensuing discussion, Emily acknowledged that she should have been more careful with her words.

The comment was not screened as part of the ‘as live’ streaming on E4 and was immediately reported up to senior production staff at Brighter Pictures, the Endemol UK subsidiary that produces the show. In consultation with senior executives at Channel 4 the decision was taken to remove Emily from the house on the grounds that she had broken the rules governing contestant behaviour.

The House Rules given to all contestants clearly state:

- Big Brother will intervene and take appropriate action if Housemates behave in a way that Big Brother considers is unacceptable.
- Unacceptable behaviour includes: behaving in a way that could cause serious offence to either their fellow Housemates or members of the viewing public including serious offence based on the grounds of race.
- Housemates who act in a way that is seriously unacceptable will be evicted.

Emily was called to the Diary Room at approximately 03.30 am to be informed of the decision and was removed from the house immediately without further contact with other contestants. The remaining housemates were informed of Big Brother’s decision at approximately 9.30am.

Emily was one of two housemates nominated for eviction this week and as a result the latest eviction vote has been suspended.

Angela Jain, who heads the Big Brother commissioning team at Channel 4, said: “I think people watching the show tonight will agree that Emily spoke carelessly rather than maliciously – certainly Charley and Nicky, the two housemates most directly involved in the conversation with her, seem to accept that she did. She understands why her involvement in Big Brother has had to come an end and she very much regrets what she said.

“In the wake of Celebrity Big Brother we must consider the potential offence to viewers regardless of Emily’s intentions and her housemates’ response. The word ni**er is clearly racially offensive and there was no justification for its use. We have removed Emily from the house to once again make it clear to all housemates and the viewers at home that such behaviour won’t be tolerated.”

This is a provisional transcript of the conversation between Emily, Charley and Nicky that led to Emily’s departure from the house. The incident will be aired as part of the Big Brother highlights show on Channel 4 at 10pm tonight (Thursday 7th June).

Emily: (referring to Charley dancing/pushing her hips forward) You pushing it out you ni**er.
Nicky: (shocked laughter) Em, I can’t believe you said that.
Charley: You are in trouble.
Emily: Don’t make a big thing out of it then. I was joking.
Charley: I know you were… but that’s some serious ****, sorry.
Emily: Why?
Charley: Oh my god. I’m not even saying it.
Nicky: Just don’t talk about it anymore.
Emily: I was joking
Charley: Do you know how many viewers would watch that?
Nicky: Okay, don’t make a big deal out of it.
Charley: Fancy you saying that. I can’t believe you said that.
Emily: Somebody has already used that word in this house.
Charley: No way. (Pause) Yeah, me. I’m a n*****r.
Nicky laughs.
Charley: I am one. Fancy you saying it. I know maybe you see it in a rap song. Maybe you and your friends sit there saying it.
Emily: I’m friendly with plenty of black people.
Nicky: And you call them *******?
Emily: Yeah and they call me n*****s. They call me wiggers as well.
Nicky: I’m quite shocked.
Charley: I’m ****ing in shock.
Emily: It’s not a big deal though is it?
Charley: Not for us it ain’t. ******* me.

From Channel 4

[Slartibartfast]

The House Rules given to all contestants clearly state:

- Big Brother will intervene and take appropriate action if Housemates behave in a way that Big Brother considers is unacceptable.
- Unacceptable behaviour includes: behaving in a way that could cause serious offence to either their fellow Housemates or members of the viewing public including serious offence based on the grounds of race.
- Housemates who act in a way that is seriously unacceptable will be evicted.

She can't really have any argument then, the rules are pretty clear and it looks from that statement that she has accepted she broke the rules.

I quite like this piece of damage control by Channel 4:

Angela Jain, who heads the Big Brother commissioning team at Channel 4, said: “I think people watching the show tonight will agree that Emily spoke carelessly rather than maliciously

LOL, basically saying she's not nasty just stupid! :pat:

[Amy]

She was very silly...:nono: It'll be interesting to see tonights show.

[gazza127]

They were very quick to act this time.

[DOG]

The girl is an idiot and should have known better than to use the N word, even in the context that she did use it. :nono:

[Psychonaut]

I don't think anyone should use the word at all, even Charlie. It's just as offensive in my opinion whoever says it. It's a word many people had thrown at them as a form of racial abuse and has become just unacceptable, even in music in my opinion. America doesn't have racism laws like in the Uk, so that's why they get away with that kind of crap.

[ben_evans_07]

i cant believe what she said i know she was mean to all the housemates but that takes it to a new level, even if she didnt mean to say what she said she still said it and she deserves everything she gets, i dont like the girl anyway, an wanted her to be evicted anyway, i am glad she is gone now cause the housemates dont have to worry bout the constant bitching arguing and backstabbing.

[xkatex]

Glad she's gone. I wonder what will happen on Friday now??

[superscott789]

That was quite shocking, and people may say C4 overreacted - especially when they, Emily and Charley all know that it was a mistake. Charley went and used the word herself. However, it is good to see action being taken - we don't want the plug pulled now do we?

[Amy21]

I just got a new bulletin from Big Blagger website saying she has been removed from the house. I hope she get arrested and charged for that racist comment. She shouldnt be allowed to get away with that at all. I am glad Big Brother acted quickly on that and got her removed from the house. I dont know what good its going to do Big Brother image now as they have already been in trouble with off come about this. I hope that nasty Emily doesnt get Big Brother taken off the air because of her racist comment otherwise I will be so mad :mad:.

So Friday eviction is cancelled now. What happens to all the money that people have spent voting on. I think Channel 4 should give the money back as they already took aload of money from last year series because of people walking out and Celebrity Big Brother too.

This isnt a good start to Big Brother 8 at all. Its only been the first week.

[Wiglet]

So it wasn't because she got her baps put then after all!

Sorry it is serious......

I had to go out at 9.15 and missed out on what the REAL story was.

I find a little sad actually. There are some seriously racial attacks out there which are brushed under the carpet and when you hear about something like a silly little girl making a stupid comment like this and it WILL not doubt be blown out of all proportion I do wonder "Why?"

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by wiglet
So it wasn't because she got her baps out then after all!

I know wiglet, would have been so much easier if that's all she had done. And personally, I was quite looking forward to seeing some bap action :wink: :laugh:

[actor]

Here is the link, by the way:

http://www.metro.co.uk/bigbrother/article.html?in_article_id=52127&in_page_id=22

Her last moment in the house:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06/emilyevicted_450x250.jpg

:sad:

[Arneldo]

That is shocking! I cant believe she could be so stupid to say somthing like that. BB did the right thing in kicking her out.

[Amy21]

Originally posted by actor
Here is the link, by the way:

http://www.metro.co.uk/bigbrother/article.html?in_article_id=52127&in_page_id=22

Her last moment in the house:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06/emilyevicted_450x250.jpg

:sad:

Good riddence to a nasty bitch like her :mad:.

[Listedabive]

Does anyone else find this all a little suspect?

It's only a few days since Channel 4 were forced to apologise for tolerating the racism from Celeb BB (yes it had dragged on for that long). So they're keen to prove that they won't tolerate it this time round.

And very conveniently there is a reason to kick someone out for saying a racist word - in the first week!

Hmm...

If I was a suspicious person I'd be thinking that Emily was a mole from the start. And that Channel 4 had given her a massive payoff to say the word after about a week so they could boot her out. That way the nation respects Channel 4 again and Ofcom leave them alone.

It's probably not the case. But it's something to think about.

[Spider]

Originally posted by Amy21
I hope she get arrested and charged for that racist comment. She shouldnt be allowed to get away with that at all.


Are you honestly serious? Arrested for saying that word in a humorous context? What a ridiculous idea. :laugh2:

I agree it was stupid, especially when someone as intlligent as her would have known how BB were likely to act after the CBB row, but I still feel as if a housemate has been wasted to simply prevent Channel 4 from getting told off again. I don't see why they couldn't have just shown it and let Emily be the one to take responsibility. The fact is it was an off-the-cuff remark, one which shouldn't have been said but none the less offended no one to whom it was said.

Agree though, money should be returned for the evictions, and I also think it's pretty stupid because it now makes the whole introduction of Ziggy and his task completely pointless.

[actor]

Originally posted by Listedabive
Does anyone else find this all a little suspect?

It's only a few days since Channel 4 were forced to apologise for tolerating the racism from Celeb BB (yes it had dragged on for that long). So they're keen to prove that they won't tolerate it this time round.

And very conveniently there is a reason to kick someone out for saying a racist word - in the first week!

Hmm...

If I was a suspicious person I'd be thinking that Emily was a mole from the start. And that Channel 4 had given her a massive payoff to say the word after about a week so they could boot her out. That way the nation respects Channel 4 again and Ofcom leave them alone.

It's probably not the case. But it's something to think about.

OMG YES!!

Plus, she is an actress!

:dance2::cheer2:

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Spider
Originally posted by Amy21
I hope she get arrested and charged for that racist comment. She shouldnt be allowed to get away with that at all.


Are you honestly serious? Arrested for saying that word in a humorous context? What a ridiculous idea. :laugh2:

I agree it was stupid, especially when someone as intlligent as her would have known how BB were likely to act after the CBB row, but I still feel as if a housemate has been wasted to simply prevent Channel 4 from getting told off again. I don't see why they couldn't have just shown it and let Emily be the one to take responsibility. The fact is it was an off-the-cuff remark, one which shouldn't have been said but none the less offended no one to whom it was said.

Agree though, money should be returned for the evictions, and I also think it's pretty stupid because it now makes the whole introduction of Ziggy and his task completely pointless.


I too agree to suggest arrest is ridiculous extremism....You could say its a sign of hatred which is what racists do.......

I note on another now closed thread that racism cannot be debated without extremists throwing out accusations just because others may have a different perspective..The extremists always have to be right........


I too cannot believe the stupidity of her making such a statement considering the warning that were given prior to the show.......I can't help but think she knew what she was doing.........Maybe she thinks in the long run she will sell stories from such a controversy.....Foolish if she does as there are complete nutters out there likely to threaten her safety....

[Sam]

I dont think she should have gone but should have been strongly warned

[andybigbro]

i am shocked she went

And a bit anoyyed but she shouldnt of said that

[BigBrotherFan..*]

i cant believe it ! :O omg! emily was the best :( dont wanna watch it now!!!

[Crystal-Rose]

i cant believe she has gone!
i dont think she is racist
its because of last series big brother think it wil start another race row :(
but it was nowhere near as bad as before last year there was bullying and everything

i think its just big brother protecting themselves just in case because they know it will cause a stir in the papers ect

its a shame shes gone
i dont think at all she ment to say it in a bad way, shes friends with charley so i dont see why she would have the reason to say it in a bad way :sad:

[xPrInCeSs-MaYx]

stupid bitch - i told you it was racism - you should of believed me - ungrateful little cow

[Sticks]

Lets start with one thing

I am not acting as a Cyber Devil's Advocate for Emily. I am still retired.

First of all, where did the N word come from? Answer it was a derogative used of African slaves in the Southern United States of America and it was used after the abolition and during the time America had segregation. That is it's history. It is now seen as so offensive that even words that have nothing at all to do with it, but sound similar, are unacceptable, as one political aide found to his cost (http://www.adversity.net/special/*****rdly.htm) when he wanted to use a word that means stingy or mean.

Incidentally this word is used a lot with impunity in modern rap music.

Now lets compare what happened here with what happened in January. The situation in January was very different, as you had a number of people ganging up on the "innocent victim".

Here the majority were on the side of the "victim" and more able to instantly challenge the use of one word. The two contestants, Nicky and Charlie dealt with it internally, and in normal times it would probably have been left at that.

Now C4 is running paranoid, because of the OFCOM adjudication and this does come across as heavy handed. I heard that someone in the equal opportunities industry is welcoming this, if Emily had been immediately arrested and banged up, I suspect they would be equally welcoming this. This is Hatred, but coming from the other side.

As one who also goes up against the evils of racial hatred, this smacks more of wanting to be seen to be doing something rather than modifying attitudes. Nikky and Charlie did attempt to do that and that is where it should have been allowed to rest.

Now as the other people involved were not offended, it seems that the infracted rule was to do with "offending members of the viewing public" But hang on a moment, this was from an incident that was not on the live feed. As said, the people involved were handling it. It was the perpetrator this time that was ganged up on, not the victim as in January. C4 could have kept this contained, with the perpetrator brought to heel.

This racially offensive word could have been kept away from the public consciousness. It was a word fading into history, and now it has been revived. So thanks to a knee jerk reaction of channel 4 a racially offensive word is again appearing in print and on the electronic media, when it should have been allowed to wither and die on the linguistic vine."

[001steven]

she was a silly girl.. she should of realised the rule.. wonder why she said it... cant wait to watch tonight wonder whats gonna happen on friday

[Sanguinar]

I can't believe they call this a 'reality' show.

Message to Channel 4; people use all kinds of words in reality. Are we all now pretending that they don't?

Also, if the transcript is correct, (and the word is the problem), then Charley said it as well. Why haven't they both been evicted?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

[CassetteFinger]

i bet she is kicking her self now shows you should think brfore you speak.

[DavinaRocks]

Never in a million years would I have thought Emily would be the first one out, even after she was put up for eviction.

But she does deserve it, some people will just never learn.

[Sticks]

On the BBC Radio 4 PM programme this evening, they had someone on from the ethnic community and they said she should not have been kicked out.

[cc100]

Originally posted by Sticks
On the BBC Radio 4 PM programme this evening, they had someone on from the ethnic community and they said she should not have been kicked out.

Good point.

Do you recall Jermaine Jackson calling Jade Goody 'white trash'? Was he kicked out? No.

Double-standards as per usual.

[Lil-Lindz]

Emily was very silly and careless and i can understand why BB was forced to remove her

[rapido123]

Emily Parr was the best and most interesting housemate in there, unlike the others. Should'nt have been racist, but shooldnot have been ejected

[MummyJens01]

Its a set up!
Its got to be!
Emily was paid to say that, so channel 4 look good for booting her!
Thats what i think.... Bit far fetched maybe though!!!

[InTheHood]

I agree it was a setup.

Big Brother's chance to show that racism matters to them and that they don't condone it.

Emily is an actress.

[Sticks]

C4 are not that clever or that stupid

This was a genuine slip of the tongue from someone who has a circle of friends who use it, and was trying to speak "street" followed by a knee-jerk over reaction.

[mr-roboto]

What a complete load of bollocks and storm in a tea-cup. Why hasn't Charley been evicted too for use of such an allegedly vile word- or does is she treated differently because of the colour of her skin?
Well, either way- I'm tuning off. Emily's yummy peachy bottom is far better than some name-dropping Stringfellows slapper's.

What a complete load of PC twaddle and cobblers. Shame on you for caving to the PC thugs Channel 4 shame. You're as gutless as that prize pansy Tony Blair.

[Nickk.]

The House Rules given to all contestants clearly state:

.Unacceptable behaviour includes: behaving in a way that could cause serious offence to either their fellow Housemates or members of the viewing public including serious offence based on the grounds of race.
- Housemates who act in a way that is seriously unacceptable will be evicted


So, if Charley was not offended, that means that there was no serious offense. It also says behaviour, not language.

If Emily was evicted for offending the public, surely the other 2 who also said it should be evicted on the grounds of using language that offends

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
Lets start with one thing

I am not acting as a Cyber Devil's Advocate for Emily. I am still retired.

First of all, where did the N word come from? Answer it was a derogative used of African slaves in the Southern United States of America and it was used after the abolition and during the time America had segregation. That is it's history. It is now seen as so offensive that even words that have nothing at all to do with it, but sound similar, are unacceptable, as one political aide found to his cost (http://www.adversity.net/special/*****rdly.htm) when he wanted to use a word that means stingy or mean.

Incidentally this word is used a lot with impunity in modern rap music.

Now lets compare what happened here with what happened in January. The situation in January was very different, as you had a number of people ganging up on the "innocent victim".

Here the majority were on the side of the "victim" and more able to instantly challenge the use of one word. The two contestants, Nicky and Charlie dealt with it internally, and in normal times it would probably have been left at that.

Now C4 is running paranoid, because of the OFCOM adjudication and this does come across as heavy handed. I heard that someone in the equal opportunities industry is welcoming this, if Emily had been immediately arrested and banged up, I suspect they would be equally welcoming this. This is Hatred, but coming from the other side.

As one who also goes up against the evils of racial hatred, this smacks more of wanting to be seen to be doing something rather than modifying attitudes. Nikky and Charlie did attempt to do that and that is where it should have been allowed to rest.

Now as the other people involved were not offended, it seems that the infracted rule was to do with "offending members of the viewing public" But hang on a moment, this was from an incident that was not on the live feed. As said, the people involved were handling it. It was the perpetrator this time that was ganged up on, not the victim as in January. C4 could have kept this contained, with the perpetrator brought to heel.

This racially offensive word could have been kept away from the public consciousness. It was a word fading into history, and now it has been revived. So thanks to a knee jerk reaction of channel 4 a racially offensive word is again appearing in print and on the electronic media, when it should have been allowed to wither and die on the linguistic vine."

In one word Sticks....Exactly.........


Channel 4 have knee jerked reacted because they like all broadcasters are slaves to control freak Ofcom numbskulls who would not recognize proportionality if it dropped on their head from a great height.

The bottom line is we all allow Government sponsored institutions to control us....In that respect those that do not try and kick back deserve the injustices we that come about
because of that.

Ofcoms ruling on CBB was fraudulant...as usual for that bunch of govermnent controlled so called independant jerks.

If there were a full on racial accouint for channel 4 to be accountable for way back in CBB then Ofcom would have fined CH4 many thousands of pounds. They did not..

If there was a case for racism the police would have prosecuted someone........They did not.

Channel4 bowed to the pressure of knee jerk public and media reaction. You can be sure that many of the 40000 complaints were from those that never even watched the program but just jumped on the bandwagon knee jerk reactions for the drama of it....

At the end of the day 40 or 50 thousand complaints is still a drop in the ocean of the total population.

Emily was hung out to dry so CH4 can boost the ratings by generating public concern drama while at the same time surrendering to our regulator dictators...

[Sticks]

It seems 922 people complained to Channel 4 saying she should not have been evicted (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1269565,00.html)

[xxxxxsammiexxxxx]

i think this is all blown WAY out of proportion again big brother cud of avoided the whole situation but instead dicided to make the whole thing seem bigger than it is, i dnt agree on what she sed and im not sticking up for her cus i didnt like her anyway i thought she was a snobby cow, but charlie kept going on bout it i no she prob was offended but cum on she cud of chatted to big brother bout it instead of sayin it through out the nite knowing it will be plasterd all ova the paper. im not stickin up for anybody im mixed my self and my mum is black and she got spat out in the street and other horrible stuff and got called the ''n'' word lots of times when she was small but even she sed it wasnt a racial attack she was jus trying to ''fit'' in and bond wit charlie the whole thing is jus to make good tv, we wasnt there we didnt no the atmosphere so we are jus judgin on wot big bro did, im not tryin to make an argument and im not tryin to be racial my self but this whole situation cud of been avoided.

[BB-Fan2k7]

I couldnt beleive what emily had done its amazing what the slip of the tounge does to people especially on television she could have gone far in the competion oh well let the game begin

if someone else got kicked out who do you think it would be :shrug:

[Sam]

Originally posted by BB-Fan2k7
I couldnt beleive what emily had done its amazing what the slip of the tounge does to people especially on television she could have gone far in the competion oh well let the game begin

if someone else got kicked out who do you think it would be :shrug:

I agree , welcome to the forum! She could have made it at least half way through the competition! I dont know who else may get kicked out for racial abuse , hopefully nobody! :tongue:

[Eugene!]

I know I will be probablys shouted at for saying this but I think Emily 's pumishment for saying the word "n****r", was innaprpiate. I think she should have been punished by Big Brother, without adoubt, but I think being evicted from the house is too strong. I know the word "n****r" can be a racially offenisve word, but the question is not whether the word is offensive, but whether it was MEANT to be offenisve or not, and whether it is taken to be offensive by the person it was said to. On both counts it was not. - Emily did not mean it to be offensive, it was a silly, SILLY slip of the toungue, and Charlie did not take offense to it, and even used the word to describe herself? Should she be evicted? Or is this another case of black people are allowed rto call themselves "n*****s", but other people are not. I personally despise the word, and would never use it unless in a conversation like this. I would not use it to insult somebody because I do not see the reason for insulting black peopple. But if "n*****" is seen to be an offenive word, then it should be opffensive for black people to use it.

[Shiva]

It was ridiculous.

I wonder if she was trying to appear all cool, and down with the urban kids.

I suspect she may have been lying when she said she uses it all the time with her friends at home.

I also think that one of the reasons it seemed so bad, was due to her saying 'YOU n*****r'. At least if it was 'my n*****r', it would look like a dumb attempt at cameraderie.

[Shiva]

I do feel a bit bad for her brutal eviction as well. As funny as it was.

Woken up in the middle of the night and kicked out the back door, not even wearing your underwear. No interview with Davina. No 'best bits' highlight reel.

So long, intelligent lady.

[Turrican]

Originally posted by Sticks
It seems 922 people complained to Channel 4 saying she should not have been evicted (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1269565,00.html)

which is a tiny, insignificant number compared to the 6MILLION people who watched! 46,000 people complained about shilpa's treatement to put your "922" in perspective!

I'm so glad that nasty, spoilt, racist girl was BOOTED OUT!

:hello:

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Turrican

which is a tiny, insignificant number compared to the 6MILLION people who watched! 46,000 people complained about shilpa's treatement to put your "922" in perspective!

I'm so glad that nasty, spoilt, racist girl was BOOTED OUT!

:hello:

As I said, there is an industry formula which takes complaints and gives an estimate of how many agree with the complainants but never speak up.

The 46,000 was allowed to build up as the situation with CBB was over a longer period of time, plus there was publicity about it at the time as people were drawn in.

If you look at the short space of time, for this case 922 is quite high, given that Channel 4 had 1000 complaints.

As to if she is racist, that is moot, given that she was trying to be friends with Charlie and assumed the kind of banter with her outside acquaintances would be acceptable, which it was not.

You are failing to look at the intent and only focusing on the word.

Intent is crucial. Suppose a man gives a child a teddy bear, is that a good thing?

But suppose the child has been conditioned the believe that a teddy bear was a precursor to abuse and that bad things will happen if they open their mouths. The child's guardian may think the gesture of giving a teddy bear is a nice one, but they have not seen the intent.

I saw no racist intent from Emily, and I have spoken with outright racists and ripped down their vile posters of hate, so I have a fair deal of experience in this matter.

[easypeasy]

The way Charley handled the situation was well out of order, she made a point of telling everybody all day that it was no big deal and took delight in it. Charley and Nicky both said the word to, how come they didnt get booted?

[easypeasy]

so its acceptable for an asian to call a black person n~~~~~# but not for a whitte person?

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
Originally posted by Turrican

which is a tiny, insignificant number compared to the 6MILLION people who watched! 46,000 people complained about shilpa's treatement to put your "922" in perspective!

I'm so glad that nasty, spoilt, racist girl was BOOTED OUT!

:hello:

As I said, there is an industry formula which takes complaints and gives an estimate of how many agree with the complainants but never speak up.

The 46,000 was allowed to build up as the situation with CBB was over a longer period of time, plus there was publicity about it at the time as people were drawn in.

If you look at the short space of time, for this case 922 is quite high, given that Channel 4 had 1000 complaints.

As to if she is racist, that is moot, given that she was trying to be friends with Charlie and assumed the kind of banter with her outside acquaintances would be acceptable, which it was not.

You are failing to look at the intent and only focusing on the word.

Intent is crucial. Suppose a man gives a child a teddy bear, is that a good thing?

But suppose the child has been conditioned the believe that a teddy bear was a precursor to abuse and that bad things will happen if they open their mouths. The child's guardian may think the gesture of giving a teddy bear is a nice one, but they have not seen the intent.

I saw no racist intent from Emily, and I have spoken with outright racists and ripped down their vile posters of hate, so I have a fair deal of experience in this matter.


Excellent summary Sticks....It's strange how people who are against racial hatred are the first to display points of view that implies hatred of somekind against an individual.....Do two hates make a right..:bigsmile: I doubt it.....