“MP’s must back deal or no Brexit” says Juncker

[Wizard.]

Jean Claude Juncker has stated tonight that there will be “no third chance” and that MP’s must back May’s deal or there will be no Brexit. This comes after the U.K. government has agreed with the EU assurances on a legally binding backstop. Source: Peston

[Beso]

Someone needs to tell him there will be a brexit.

[Wizard.]

Someone needs to tell him there will be a brexit.

May has obviously told him to say this to scare ERG members and Brexit MP’s to back her deal. I think what he means is that is the best we can get, and it’s either that, an extension which results in nothing so there’s no point, or a second referendum and a risk of remaining.

[joeysteele]

I now think MPs should just back her agreement.
It's not ideal but maybe the best we can expect.

[Wizard.]

I now think MPs should just back her agreement.
It's not ideal but maybe the best we can expect.

I agree, we cannot allow a second referendum so remoaners can claim victory.

[reece(:]

No brexit at all it is :clap1:

[Alf]

Drunken old fool.

[Twosugars]

tbf that man does eu no favours, get rid asap

[joeysteele]

I agree, we cannot allow a second referendum so remoaners can claim victory.

I voted remain but no way do I want another referendum.
I've wavered on it.
However no way do I want to go through that again.

Best just back the PMs agreement now and get on with things after that.

[arista]

Juncker
can not tell us what will happen.
It all depends if the Irish DUP back this.

[bots]

we can still leave without a deal, until the votes are done we don't know, and neither does Junker

[AnnieK]

I voted remain but no way do I want another referendum.
I've wavered on it.
However no way do I want to go through that again.

Best just back the PMs agreement now and get on with things after that.

Totally agree Joey. I wanted to remain but I don't think voting again is particularly democratic and if the result changed, I think that would be more damaging to us as a country. We need to get it done now.

[Shaun]

Totally agree Joey. I wanted to remain but I don't think voting again is particularly democratic and if the result changed, I think that would be more damaging to us as a country. We need to get it done now.

And trying to rush through a deal isn't going to damage us?

[bots]

What annoys me more than anything is our MP's all playing politics even at this late stage than thinking about our country. OK, so its not the ideal deal for everyone, but this is our country's future now we are talking about, not in 5 years, not in 10 years, not in 50 years. To suggest that any deal agreed now cannot be changed in the future is misleading the British people and doing us a very great disservice.

Corbyn, the ERG, the remainers, should all back this country's future now by agreeing the deal, or forever be held responsible for their intransigence

[Cherie]

7/10 chance now of a second referendum :dance:

[Cherie]

we can still leave without a deal, until the votes are done we don't know, and neither does Junker

I think the vote on going out without a deal will be overwhelmingly rejected

[AnnieK]

And trying to rush through a deal isn't going to damage us?

Less damage than the risk of leaving with no deal, yes. Less damage than the anarchy and unrest that will happen if they overturn a democratic vote yes.

[user104658]

. To suggest that any deal agreed now cannot be changed in the future is misleading the British people and doing us a very great disservice.

Yes I keep coming back to that. Literally ANY deal is better than no deal and - assuming we are indeed leaving - the sensible option is to take the deal that's there, get some breathing space, and go forward. The terms of any deal can always be renegotiated in future! There's this image being pushed that if we take a deal, "That's it" forever which is obviously totally false :think:.

[Northern Monkey]

Yes I keep coming back to that. Literally ANY deal is better than no deal and - assuming we are indeed leaving - the sensible option is to take the deal that's there, get some breathing space, and go forward. The terms of any deal can always be renegotiated in future! There's this image being pushed that if we take a deal, "That's it" forever which is obviously totally false :think:.

Yeah,This isn’t even THE deal.It’s just the withdrawal agreement that lets us start the real negotiations.
As you say,Anything can be changed during the future partnership negotiations if both sides agree.

Parliament needs to pull their fingers out and stop pissing around now.

I don’t think there’s any way this is going through though.

There’s Corbyn and his cronies who just want to disrupt anything that’s Tory related.
Then the likes of Ree-Smog and the ERG who may or may not get cold feet and vote in favour of this.
Then Soubry and TIG who will never ever vote for any deal and the same with the Lib Dems.

Theresa went to Europe and got some ‘legally binding assurance’ that the backstop can be time limited.That could possibly change the stance of the ERG but if the last vote result is anything to go by.That won’t be enough.

[Nicky91]

tbf that man does eu no favours, get rid asap

that's not very nice to say about the leader of the EC

he does a great job for us EU, i can fully understand him also being sick and tired of this unnecessary UK drama now, while he also has Hungary with that a-hole Orban to focus on, getting rid of him as hungary's leader

[James]

I agree with those pointing out the current deal only covers the transitional arrangements, not the final relationship with the EU - that still has to be finalised.

Accept the current deal, and there is time to work on it further. Who knows what the political scene will be like in the next few years. We'll probably end up with a soft Brexit, given the views of the current set of MPs (though they could change).

[Smithy]

I agree, we cannot allow a second referendum so remoaners can claim victory.

This reads like a 12 year old who pretends to know what’s going on with politics but really has no clue

[Wizard.]

This reads like a 12 year old who pretends to know what’s going on with politics but really has no clue

As someone who is projected to get a first class degree in Politics you sound like a snob.

[Crimson Dynamo]

oof

[Underscore]

I'm a remainer and my ideal outcome would be no brexit, but I think looking at all avenues and whatever can come out of today's vote there is only two.

May's deal or hard brexit.

I think I'd support May's deal as although not ideal, I think it's the best way to go forward for the country.

[Mystic Mock]

Totally agree Joey. I wanted to remain but I don't think voting again is particularly democratic and if the result changed, I think that would be more damaging to us as a country. We need to get it done now.

I do think a second Referendum would be good for one thing, and that's to have a choice on if you want a Hard Brexit or a Soft Brexit and see which way the people vote.

[Smithy]

As someone who is projected to get a first class degree in Politics you sound like a snob.

Guess that makes your post even more embarrassing

[Wizard.]

Guess that makes your post even more embarrassing

I think the majority of opinion is that people want this deal through, just look at this thread. You came in and attacked someone's opinion rather than contributing. That's embarrassing :idc: You're never going to win an argument with me so don't even bother.

[Smithy]

I think the majority of opinion is that people want this deal through, just look at this thread. You came in and attacked someone's opinion rather than contributing. That's embarrassing :idc: You're never going to win an argument with me so don't even bother.

:joker: you called people who disagree a bunch of remoaners, you’ve already lost because you’re the one that just insulted everyone who disagrees with you.

Grow up

[Wizard.]

:joker: you called people who disagree a bunch of remoaners, you’ve already lost because you’re the one that just insulted everyone who disagrees with you.

Grow up

Never said people who voted remain are 'remoaners', but their are people who want to force another referendum so we can stay in the EU so that they can feel victorious over something they have been so butthurt about since 2016. You literally came into a thread, mis-interpreted my post so that you could manipulate it and try to make fun of me. You should literally just stop posting because it's doing you no justice going off topic and being so obsessed with me.

[Smithy]

I agree, we cannot allow a second referendum so remoaners can claim victory.

Never said people who voted remain are 'remoaners', but their are people who want to force another referendum so we can stay in the EU so that they can feel victorious over something they have been so butthurt about since 2016. You literally came into a thread, mis-interpreted my post so that you could manipulate it and try to make fun of me. You should literally just stop posting because it's doing you no justice going off topic and being so obsessed with me.

I mean that isn’t what you said at all, but go off I guess

Obsessed? :skull: bc I called you out for your juvenile post? Ok :skull:

[Wizard.]

I mean that isn’t what you said at all, but go off I guess

Obsessed? :skull: bc I called you out for your juvenile post? Ok :skull:
But you're making it out like I am against all remainers calling them remoaners? Watch any political TV programme and you can see there is a group of them, or do you not watch them because you prefer to go into threads on a forum in an attempt to be funny?

You're a hypocrite by saying I have 'lost' an argument because I have 'insulted' people yet you literally came in here and said I sound like a 12 year old? You're clearly a baiting troll and I'm having none of it.

[Cherie]

I don't know why anyone would be fearful of a second referendum, we are pretty much aware of the full facts of what will happen now and the various scenarios that will play out, so a referendum with a clear majority built in otherwise we revert to what we have now would seem the most sensible way forward. I would also lower the voting age to 16 as they did in Scotland, this is the future of the country and as many people as possible should be included in that vote

[Smithy]

But you're making it out like I am against all remainers calling them remoaners? Watch any political TV programme and you can see there is a group of them, or do you not watch them because you prefer to go into threads on a forum in an attempt to be funny?

You're a hypocrite by saying I have 'lost' an argument because I have 'insulted' people yet you literally came in here and said I sound like a 12 year old? You're clearly a baiting troll and I'm having none of it.

Maybe just don’t people call names in the first place? I

It’s not that hard and is quite juvenile to do so :pat:

[user104658]

As someone who is projected to get a first class degree in Politics you sound like a snob.

their are people who want to force another referendum so we can stay in the EU so that they can feel victorious over something they have been so butthurt about since 2016


...... So is it a Russell Group Uni or...?

[Wizard.]

I don't know why anyone would be fearful of a second referendum, we are pretty much aware of the full facts of what will happen now and the various scenarios that will play out, so a referendum with a clear majority built in otherwise we revert to what we have now would seem the most sensible way forward. I would also lower the voting age to 16 as they did in Scotland, this is the future of the country and as many people as possible should be included in that vote

I'm not fearful of a second referendum as I am 100% confident Leave would still win. And even if it didn't and remain won, it would have no legitimacy as then it becomes a draw 1-1. My problem comes from the division it would cause in this country, the amount of money another referendum would cost, and the fact that we would be no further forward in the whole issue.

[Wizard.]

...... So is it a Russell Group Uni or...?

No, why?

[bots]

Never said people who voted remain are 'remoaners', but their are people who want to force another referendum so we can stay in the EU so that they can feel victorious over something they have been so butthurt about since 2016. You literally came into a thread, mis-interpreted my post so that you could manipulate it and try to make fun of me. You should literally just stop posting because it's doing you no justice going off topic and being so obsessed with me.

forgive me for pointing out that your posts don't indicate a deep political understanding

[Wizard.]

Maybe just don’t people call names in the first place? I

It’s not that hard and is quite juvenile to do so :pat:

It's quite juvenile to post what you did too but at least I'm not a hypocrite?

[Wizard.]

forgive me for pointing out that your posts don't indicate a deep political understanding

What do you mean by 'political understanding'? I haven't even touched on anything substantial apart from giving my view on one tiny aspect of a political issue.

[Twosugars]

I hope this deal doesn't pass bc I want a 2nd ref
no deal will be voted down, then a long extension and momentum building up to a 2nd ref

[reece(:]

I like how it's ended up people debating over the least worst option for the country over a "best"

Sums up brexit altogether

[Cherie]

I'm not fearful of a second referendum as I am 100% confident Leave would still win. And even if it didn't and remain won, it would have no legitimacy as then it becomes a draw 1-1. My problem comes from the division it would cause in this country, the amount of money another referendum would cost, and the fact that we would be no further forward in the whole issue.

It wouldn't be a draw if they build in a percentage by which Leave/remain had to win by which is what should have happened the first time

[Wizard.]

It wouldn't be a draw if they build in a percentage by which Leave/remain had to win by which is what should have happened the first time

It would probably just as close though. There's also the issue that a lot of people who voted to Leave were first time voters, and if there was another referendum it would cause that group of people (predominantly working class) to return to political apathy, which means that the turnout would probably be lower, and then how can you legitimise the result?

[Twosugars]

It wouldn't be a draw if they build in a percentage by which Leave/remain had to win by which is what should have happened the first time
exactly

[bots]

It wouldn't be a draw if they build in a percentage by which Leave/remain had to win by which is what should have happened the first time

if they are going to hold a referendum again, they cant change the rules. It would always be seen as a fix

[Alf]

Imagine siding with the EU over your own country.

A lot of traitors about today. The traitors have been manufactured over a period of time.

[MTVN]

ERG have said no to the deal

There's some irony in how those who most strongly believe in Brexit might be the ones who accidentally kill it off..

[Tom4784]

Generally it's only leavers that don't want a second referendum and that's purely down to the fact that Leave probably wouldn't win again.

The leaver camp made a campaign on presenting leaving being the will of the people but minds change and it makes the leave side utter hypocrites if they try to shoot down another referendum in fear that they'd lose.

I'm of the mind that we should just accept the deal and be done with it but if the deal gets rejected then Brexit must be delayed until we get the government in order and we should vote on whether the public wants a no deal brexit, if they vote yes, we do it. If they vote no, we look at other options and potentially do the leave/remain referendum over.

[Scarlett.]

I don't know why anyone would be fearful of a second referendum

Because in a shock twist, they're actually scared of what the current public opinion will be now that the general public is more informed after living through years of Brexit hell

[bots]

the DUP wont vote for the deal either now they have said, so it's basically going to be a rerun of the previous vote :laugh:

[Mystic Mock]

It would probably just as close though. There's also the issue that a lot of people who voted to Leave were first time voters, and if there was another referendum it would cause that group of people (predominantly working class) to return to political apathy, which means that the turnout would probably be lower, and then how can you legitimise the result?

Actually most Brexit voters were the elderly.

Most first time voters went for Remain.

[LaLaLand]

How much money are we handing over for this deal exactly that we could save by having no deal?

[Wizard.]

Actually most Brexit voters were the elderly.

Most first time voters went for Remain.

Yes there were *young* first time voters who voted for Remain but a lot of people who voted for the first time were working class people from deprived areas who aren't usually engaged in politics (of any age) and to suggest Leave would lose because "the old people have died" would be disgusting.

[Cherie]

Yes there were *young* first time voters who voted for Remain but a lot of people who voted for the first time were working class people from deprived areas who aren't usually engaged in politics (of any age) and to suggest Leave would lose because "the old people have died" would be disgusting.

They were sold a lie though, most of the areas that voted out are the ones that receive most funding from the EU and where factories are based who are now upping sticks, there wont be any halt in immigration either as 'controlled' immigration from outside the EU is far higher than within it

[Twosugars]

Yes there were *young* first time voters who voted for Remain but a lot of people who voted for the first time were working class people from deprived areas who aren't usually engaged in politics (of any age) and to suggest Leave would lose because "the old people have died" would be disgusting.

Nothing disgusting about it, it's cold arithmetics :shrug:

London's Evening Standard have done some research and according to them first time ref vote splits 3-1 for remain. Considering the over 60s were overwhelmingly for Brexit it's fair to say that the likelihood is that with every first time vote and every funeral the scales are tipping in favour of remain.

[Wizard.]

They were sold a lie though, most of the areas that voted out are the ones that receive most funding from the EU and where factories are based who are now upping sticks, there wont be any halt in immigration either as 'controlled' immigration from outside the EU is far higher than within it

There's no doubt that some lies were told but at the same time the treatment of the EU towards the UK has kind of counteracted those lies from what I have seen over the past two years. People who voted Leave might have been persuaded to vote Remain in another referendum if it wasn't for a combination of an 'established elite' trying to overturn their democratic decision and the establishment in the EU giving us a difficult time. That, is the reason why many leavers would vote Leave again and why the 'they were told a lie' argument isn't really relevant anymore.

[Matthew.]

No brexit at all it is :clap1:

Woop woop

[Wizard.]

Nothing disgusting about it, it's cold arithmetics :shrug:

London's Evening Standard have done some research and according to them first time ref vote splits 3-1 for remain. Considering the over 60s were overwhelmingly for Brexit it's fair to say that the likelihood is that with every first time vote and every funeral the scales are tipping in favour of remain.

Of course in London the favour will be for Remain though won't it, you can pluck any figure out of the air and it isn't going to prove anything unless we actually have another referendum.

[Twosugars]

Of course in London the favour will be for Remain though won't it, you can pluck any figure out of the air and it isn't going to prove anything unless we actually have another referendum.

It wasn't London only study, it was countrywide.
They forcast the 2nd ref result 60-40 for remain if it was rerun with two options leave/remain.

There's also more good news, there's a crowd-funding campaign to raise half a million for legal costs and take Boris to court for lies he told in the ref campaign.

[Wizard.]

It wasn't London only study, it was countrywide.
They forcast the 2nd ref result 60-40 for remain if it was rerun with two options leave/remain.

There's also more good news, there's a crowd-funding campaign to raise half a million for legal costs and take Boris to court for lies he told in the ref campaign.

Weren't the polls saying 60-40 in favour of remain last time? When will people stop listening to these things.

[Tom4784]

Gotta love the irony of Brexiters ****ing up their own brexit by voting against their only real option.

No Deal is going to get blown up in the vote, most politcians on both sides aren't interested in it, if people want a brexit, the only way you'll ever get it is with a deal in place.

[Cherie]

Gotta love the irony of Brexiters ****ing up their own brexit by voting against their only real option.

No Deal is going to get blown up in the vote, most politcians on both sides aren't interested in it, if people want a brexit, the only way you'll ever get it is with a deal in place.

Makes you wonder doesn't it, I don't think many want out

[bots]

The fact that the ERG voted against a deal knowing no deal was going to get blasted away today, and the fact that Jeremy says its time to implement Labours deal, even though its already been rejected in parliament and the EU have said they will not be opening the negotiated deal again, confirms to me that these people are not interested in the good of the country, they are still playing politics.

People can moan and groan about May's deal, but she has at least tried to implement the will of the British people, no one else has

[Elliot]

Just throw brexit in the bin

[Scarlett.]

Gotta love the irony of Brexiters ****ing up their own brexit by voting against their only real option.

No Deal is going to get blown up in the vote, most politcians on both sides aren't interested in it, if people want a brexit, the only way you'll ever get it is with a deal in place.

and the deal that Brexiters want is just impossible, the EU aren't going to bend over backwards to give us a good deal, with all the little caveats, and why should they?

[Northern Monkey]

xABJ3sWKIxI

[Nicky91]

xABJ3sWKIxI

:joker: :joker:

[bots]

i've been doing more investigation into this no deal off the table vote. One thing is that it is only valid until the 29th unless there is an amendment approved which is unlikely. Also, the vote is not legally binding. So, if an extension is approved tomorrow, it becomes meaningless, and if the no deal is kept on the table today, there wont be any extension. That's why the ERG weren't bothered about voting no yesterday.

[Tom4784]

and the deal that Brexiters want is just impossible, the EU aren't going to bend over backwards to give us a good deal, with all the little caveats, and why should they?

It's arrogance and self entitlement basically.