Four options left - What should be done with Brexit?

[Rob!]

Personally, I think the only sensible thing we can do is revoke article 50. That, at the very least, gives us the option to try this again if we must when we have a more capable government in charge. The magic deal May seems so insistent on delivering has zero support by anybody, despite the fact that the public doesn't really have a clue what it involves and No Deal promises to completely change the face of Britain for the worst apart from in the eyes that arguably have their own agendas. Sadly though, I think it is the option that will end up happening as May is too pig headed to consider anything else.

[Crimson Dynamo]

4 options

:suspect:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Rob are you Diane Abbott?

[Oliver_W]

Just agree to a deal and get on with it.

[Rob!]

4 options

:suspect:

I know, I forgot about the ref option until I got to the poll bit :blush:

[The Slim Reaper]

Should revoke A50 with the promise of a new referendum when there is an actual plan to leave.

[Scarlett.]

Time for another referendum, it's clear the government cannot decide for themselves, so it falls to the population instead, and this time put actual options on the ballot.

[Elliot]

I meant to vote second referendum oops

[Withano]

I think it needs to be a second referendum instead of revoking article 50, otherwise the leavers will get super salty and probably start rioting. Remain will probably win by like 60%+ and that should shut them up until somebody has a valid idea we can discuss against remaining.

[Livia]

Hard Brexit. The only people who want a second referendum are those who want to remain and those who couldn't be arsed to vote in the first referendum.

Democracy has spoken. We need to leave.

[Rob!]

Hard Brexit. The only people who want a second referendum are those who want to remain and those who couldn't be arsed to vote in the first referendum.

Democracy has spoken. We need to leave.

Not true tbh.

Many leavers are looking at the mess and saying that they would now vote completely differently.

[Withano]

“Democracy has spoken” is such an odd thing to say when actively voting against democracy.

“Democracy has spoken so democracy must never speak again” ?? Odd.

[Livia]

Not true tbh.

Many leavers are looking at the mess and saying that they would now vote completely differently.

Anecdotal evidence is not useful here.


“Democracy has spoken” is such an odd thing to say when actively voting against democracy.

“Democracy has spoken so democracy must never speak again” ?? Odd.

Remainers seem to have lost their grasp of what democracy means. It's not open to interpretation.

[Withano]

Anecdotal evidence is not useful here.




Remainers seem to have lost their grasp of what democracy means. It's not open to interpretation.

That time we only ever had one election because Livia kicked up a fuss about the first one being democratic so the rest are not.

[Rob!]

Anecdotal evidence is not useful here.
.

Neither is denial from the facts.

[Livia]

That time we only ever had one election because Livia kicked up a fuss about the first one being democratic so the rest are not.

It's unlikely that we're going to continue with referendum after referendum until we reach the result you prefer.

Imagine if 'remain' had won and Brexiters started demanding another referendum. I can imagine what your reaction would be. YOU would be lecturing ME about democracy.

[Livia]

Neither is denial from the facts.

You haven't presented any facts. That's my point.

[Rob!]

You haven't presented any facts. That's my point.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-millions-leave-voters-best-for-britain-no-deal-theresa-may-conservative-government-a8521346.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-majority-of-british-people-regret-voting-for-brexit-2018-4?r=US&IR=T

Just a couple of the multitude of opinions on the subject that took me about 2.5 seconds to find on Google. Opening your eyes may well show you more.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The last time I heard the prof guy from Glasgow uni (who is the referendum voting expert) he said that a new ref would garner the exact same result so he would advise strongly against it

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-millions-leave-voters-best-for-britain-no-deal-theresa-may-conservative-government-a8521346.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-majority-of-british-people-regret-voting-for-brexit-2018-4?r=US&IR=T

Just a couple of the multitude of opinions on the subject that took me about 2.5 seconds to find on Google. Opening your eyes may well show you more.

^^^The new study was carried out by data analysis experts Focaldata for pro-EU campaign group Best for Britain.


er

[Smithy]

Hard Brexit. The only people who want a second referendum are those who want to remain and those who couldn't be arsed to vote in the first referendum.

Democracy has spoken. We need to leave.

People voted for leave having no idea what it would entail, forecasts have shown that the UK will be worse off regardless of any deal, why should people be denied a vote now they know the facts?

The only people that don’t want a second referendum are leavers who are terrified that people have realized what a **** show this is and will vote to remain

[The Slim Reaper]

The last time I heard the prof guy from Glasgow uni (who is the referendum voting expert) he said that a new ref would garner the exact same result so he would advise strongly against it

You could well be right, but why do you think there is such opposition to putting up a brexit leave plan up against a remain?

[Crimson Dynamo]

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/second-brexit-referendum-mps-democracy-peoples-vote

[Livia]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-referendum-millions-leave-voters-best-for-britain-no-deal-theresa-may-conservative-government-a8521346.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-majority-of-british-people-regret-voting-for-brexit-2018-4?r=US&IR=T

Just a couple of the multitude of opinions on the subject that took me about 2.5 seconds to find on Google. Opening your eyes may well show you more.

It's not my job to prove your point, Rob. I could post half a dozen newspaper articles with a views in 180deg opposition to these.

[Scarlett.]

It's unlikely that we're going to continue with referendum after referendum until we reach the result you prefer.

Imagine if 'remain' had won and Brexiters started demanding another referendum. I can imagine what your reaction would be. YOU would be lecturing ME about democracy.

No one is asking for third or fourth votes, only Theresa May does that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

People voted for leave having no idea what it would entail, forecasts have shown that the UK will be worse off regardless of any deal, why should people be denied a vote now they know the facts?

The only people that don’t want a second referendum are leavers who are terrified that people have realized what a **** show this is and will vote to remain

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/second-brexit-referendum-mps-democracy-peoples-vote


Chris disagrees with you

[The Slim Reaper]

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/second-brexit-referendum-mps-democracy-peoples-vote

There wasn't a concrete plan to leave first time around. Do you agree with that?

I'm not talking about a general leave or remain referendum, I'm talking about get a brexit plan together and put that on a ballot against remaining.

Would that really be an attack on democracy?

[Livia]

People voted for leave having no idea what it would entail, forecasts have shown that the UK will be worse off regardless of any deal, why should people be denied a vote now they know the facts?

The only people that don’t want a second referendum are leavers who are terrified that people have realized what a **** show this is and will vote to remain


Neither leave nor remain had any idea what was going on because it wasn't presented to us. But people with a brain looked into the likely impacts of no deal, they considered exports and imports, at least I did before I voted. And not just leavers, remainers too... but there are small pockets on both sides who think the other side are complete morons. I guess you're in that group.

[Livia]

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/second-brexit-referendum-mps-democracy-peoples-vote


Chris disagrees with you

I agree with Chris.

[Rob!]

It's not my job to prove your point, Rob. I could post half a dozen newspaper articles with a views in 180deg opposition to these.

I'm not asking you to prove my point. It's a point that is evident from the many people who are saying it. Denying they exist is hardly beneficial is it?

[Smithy]

Neither leave nor remain had any idea what was going on because it wasn't presented to us. But people with a brain looked into the likely impacts of no deal, they considered exports and imports, at least I did before I voted. And not just leavers, remainers too... but there are small pockets on both sides who think the other side are complete morons. I guess you're in that group.

People with a brain might have, a lot of people however were riled up with right wing nonsense and a bus saying 350million pound would go to the NHS. People who voted leave were lied to. Fact.

[bots]

Sack all our current mp's and get a new lot in that actually reflect the views of their constituents

[Crimson Dynamo]

People with a brain might have, a lot of people however were riled up with right wing nonsense and a bus saying 350million pound would go to the NHS. People who voted leave were lied to. Fact.
DO you think any one is lied to in general elections?

Do you remember Tony Blair?

[Cherie]

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2019/jan/16/second-brexit-referendum-mps-democracy-peoples-vote

Don't ever ask for a second Scottish ref in your lifetime then

[Livia]

People with a brain might have, a lot of people however were riled up with right wing nonsense and a bus saying 350million pound would go to the NHS. People who voted leave were lied to. Fact.

I have faith in the wisdom of crowds, I don't subscribe to the thinking that anyone who wasn't of the same mind as me is an idiot. Nor am I impressed by right wing nonsense. Every time that bus appeared people were criticising it. I don't know anyone who was taken in by it. The truth is, remain lost the referendum. And that's it.

[hijaxers]

People with a brain might have, a lot of people however were riled up with right wing nonsense and a bus saying 350million pound would go to the NHS. People who voted leave were lied to. Fact.

I'm sick of hearing about that bloody bus , it had zero to do with how i voted or anyone else i know , i've been waiting years for this vote and mine went back by return of post.

[Livia]

I'm not asking you to prove my point. It's a point that is evident from the many people who are saying it. Denying they exist is hardly beneficial is it?



"Many leavers are looking at the mess and saying that they would now vote completely differently."

That's what you said initially. I know many leavers and they're all adamant that we leave, like the referendum result said. The only people I hear saying they want to remain are remainers.

[Rob!]

I have faith in the wisdom of crowds, I don't subscribe to the thinking that anyone who wasn't of the same mind as me is an idiot. Nor am I impressed by right wing nonsense. Every time that bus appeared people were criticising it. I don't know anyone who was taken in by it. The truth is, remain lost the referendum. And that's it.

Nobody is denying that. But don't you think that we now know more about the potential results that we did the first time the question was put to us? Surely that means that we deserve a second say at the very least? The definition of democracy is that we're allowed to change our minds as Theresa May so kindly keeps trying to give parliament the opportunity to do. If the UK still wants to leave, then the result surely won't change?

[James]

I'd say leave with May's deal, which is (mainly) only a transitional arrangement anyway, and would buy us two more years to find some sort of consensus about the future relationship with the EU.

It would probably end up being soft Brexit one way or another.

[reece(:]

Revoke or leave with Norway plus/Canada arrangement

[bots]

i think if no deal looks like being the way we are heading, having voted against that in the majority only last week, they should then revoke with the condition of there being a new referendum.

The referendum should then be a simple choice, remain or leave without a deal. This means everyone is clear on exactly what their choice is and there will be no further negotiation with the EU

[Livia]

Nobody is denying that. But don't you think that we now know more about the potential results that we did the first time the question was put to us? Surely that means that we deserve a second say at the very least? The definition of democracy is that we're allowed to change our minds as Theresa May so kindly keeps trying to give parliament the opportunity to do. If the UK still wants to leave, then the result surely won't change?

Regardless of the outcome of a second referendum, it would be undemocratic to hold one.

May's deal keeps us tied to the EU.

Personally I think we should still leave... but remainers have screwed the whole process into the ground, strung it out, voted against, in the hopes we'll stay.

Just my opinion of course.

[AnnieK]

"Many leavers are looking at the mess and saying that they would now vote completely differently."

That's what you said initially. I know many leavers and they're all adamant that we leave, like the referendum result said. The only people I hear saying they want to remain are remainers.

To be fair, I know a few leavers who changed their minds = mainly because they are so pissed off with the whole thing they think it would just be easier to stay in.

I voted remain, I still want to remain - but cannot be arsed with another 2 years of this. I do still believe if we leave with no deal we are in for a whole world of pain in the immediate aftermath and for a good few years but I want the whole debacle over.

Now, if you excuse me, I am off to stockpile toilet rolls and tinned tuna.

[Twosugars]

Anecdotal evidence is not useful here.




Remainers seem to have lost their grasp of what democracy means. It's not open to interpretation.

And what are we leaving? What have people voted to leave? Do they even know themselves?
EU
Single Market
Customs' Union

You do realize you can leave EU and remain in the other two? They may be conflated with the EU but in fact they are stand-alonge entities. That was not asked.

[Livia]

To be fair, I know a few leavers who changed their minds = mainly because they are so pissed off with the whole thing they think it would just be easier to stay in.

I voted remain, I still want to remain - but cannot be arsed with another 2 years of this. I do still believe if we leave with no deal we are in for a whole world of pain in the immediate aftermath and for a good few years but I want the whole debacle over.

Now, if you excuse me, I am off to stockpile toilet rolls and tinned tuna.

LOL... Annie... you do make me laugh x

[Livia]

And what are we leaving? What have people voted to leave? Do they even know themselves?
EU
Single Market
Customs' Union

You do realize you can leave EU and remain in the other two? They may be conflated with the EU but in fact they are stand-alonge entities. That was not asked.

Is this you not patronising me again, sugar squared? You're sh1t at it x

[Twosugars]

Is this you not patronising me again, sugar squared? You're sh1t at it x
doesn't answer my question :)

edit: and no, I'm not trying to patronise, that' just my style of discussion
so get used to it and lay off those lame accusations :)

[Crimson Dynamo]

I must say there is a certain irony about TM and her deal and the referendum

"its no good" says parliament

"wait let me try again" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, look at it now, iv changed the font" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, let me give a billion quid to the DUP, how about now? says may

"its no good" says parliament



"how about another referendum PM?" says the Great British Public


:omgno: says May - you had one, Brexit means Brexit, how dare you


:fan:

[Livia]

doesn't answer my question :)

Yes, I realise that you can leave one and remain in the other two. Was that your question?

[Rob!]

I must say there is a certain irony about TM and her deal and the referendum

"its no good" says parliament

"wait let me try again" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, look at it now, iv changed the font" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, let me give a billion quid to the DUP, how about now? says may

"its no good" says parliament



"how about another referendum PM?" says the Great British Public


:omgno: says May - you had one, Brexit means Brexit, how dare you


:fan:


:joker::joker::joker:

[Cherie]

I must say there is a certain irony about TM and her deal and the referendum

"its no good" says parliament

"wait let me try again" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, look at it now, iv changed the font" says may

"its no good" says parliament

"wait, let me give a billion quid to the DUP, how about now? says may

"its no good" says parliament



"how about another referendum PM?" says the Great British Public


:omgno: says May - you had one, Brexit means Brexit, how dare you


:fan:

this about sums it up :laugh:

[Twosugars]

Yes, I realise that you can leave one and remain in the other two. Was that your question?

then how come you interpret that people chose to leave all three? :shrug:

[James]

I don't think a second referendum bill would get through parliament, simply because too many MPs are in leave-voting constituencies, and they would be worried about losing their seats.

[Nicky91]

Just agree to a deal and get on with it.

then you need a newer parliament first of all, cause this current one will never agree to a deal from their PM May :hehe:

[Kazanne]

7+ million people voted to leave so that is what should happen, it's only got so messy as ministers who want to stay are having tantrums everytime something is put on the table,they have to do what is right by us and not themselves.The country will be fine we have stood on our own two feet before and will do again.

[Nicky91]

7+ million people voted to leave so that is what should happen, it's only got so messy as ministers who want to stay are having tantrums everytime something is put on the table,they have to do what is right by us and not themselves.The country will be fine we have stood on our own two feet before and will do again.

well i have more worries for shortage in food and medicine in UK with no deal brexit :worry:

[The Slim Reaper]

7+ million people voted to leave so that is what should happen, it's only got so messy as ministers who want to stay are having tantrums everytime something is put on the table,they have to do what is right by us and not themselves.The country will be fine we have stood on our own two feet before and will do again.

Kaz that's not true. There are leavers that won't support the deal and remainers that will. It's not remainers that are to blame for this sorry mess, there is enough blame to go round.

[Rob!]

7+ million people voted to leave so that is what should happen, it's only got so messy as ministers who want to stay are having tantrums everytime something is put on the table,they have to do what is right by us and not themselves.The country will be fine we have stood on our own two feet before and will do again.

And around 16m voted to remain. That is almost HALF the country. It is WRONG to just completely dismiss those people. There are changes that the Leave people, quite rightly want to see, but there are ways of doing that without throwing the country's future into risk and uncertainty.

[Greg!]

Revoke article 50. If the UK really is 'a union of equals' it should never have even been triggered in the first place since Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to remain.

[chuff me dizzy]

No deal for me

[smudgie]

To be fair, I know a few leavers who changed their minds = mainly because they are so pissed off with the whole thing they think it would just be easier to stay in.

I voted remain, I still want to remain - but cannot be arsed with another 2 years of this. I do still believe if we leave with no deal we are in for a whole world of pain in the immediate aftermath and for a good few years but I want the whole debacle over.

Now, if you excuse me, I am off to stockpile toilet rolls and tinned tuna.

Think I beat you to it.
Cupboards are full to bursting.

I voted leave..and still want to leave.
No deal is ok by me.

[Rob!]

No deal for me

[/B]

Think I beat you to it.
Cupboards are full to bursting.

I voted leave..and still want to leave.
No deal is ok by me.

So go on then. Explain it to us. Sell it. Why?

[Northern Monkey]

Reluctantly.
May’s deal.
It’s probably the least bad and most democratic option.

No deal - used to be my preferred option but our Parliament could not be trusted to take full advantage of it imo.

Second referendum - would cause more problems and there is no fair way to do it.It should also not even be considered an option until the result of the first one has been honoured.

Revoke Article 50 - What?? Lol

[smudgie]

So go on then. Explain it to us. Sell it. Why?

I don’t need to sell it, it’s already been sold.:hehe:

My reasons for wanting out outweighed any I had for staying in, I thought long and hard about it.
Didn’t believe the bull$hit from either sides campaigns, had nothing to do with the money saving on the side of the bus, had very little to do with free movement.
I would simply like us to make our own rules and abide by them.
I don’t yearn for the good old days either, my glasses are not rose coloured.

[Northern Monkey]

Sack all our current mp's and get a new lot in that actually reflect the views of their constituents

:clap1:

[The Slim Reaper]

I don’t need to sell it, it’s already been sold.:hehe:

My reasons for wanting out outweighed any I had for staying in, I thought long and hard about it.
Didn’t believe the bull$hit from either sides campaigns, had nothing to do with the money saving on the side of the bus, had very little to do with free movement.
I would simply like us to make our own rules and abide by them.
I don’t yearn for the good old days either, my glasses are not rose coloured.

What rules would you like us to implement post brexit that we can't do now?

[smudgie]

What rules would you like us to implement post brexit that we can't do now?

All and any.....particularly future rulings.
Free trading would be top of the list.
Hopefully we can still trade with Europe as well, beneficial to both sides.

[The Slim Reaper]

All and any.....particularly future rulings.
Free trading would be top of the list.
Hopefully we can still trade with Europe as well, beneficial to both sides.

Those bottom 2 we already have now and there is no way in hell we can leave the eu and get the same/better deals as an individual country.

I know that won't change your mind, but I'm just trying to provide some honesty about what's over the horizon.

No rules that you can think of at the moment?

[bots]

i was listening to someone that was anti brexit last night trying to say how bad it would be trading with a no deal. He quoted tariffs, standards etc. Being in the EU now, we already produce to the correct standards, and tariff wise we would win on some things, lose on others. It's not the end of the world by any imagination. MP's know this. It's all a game to them.

[smudgie]

Those bottom 2 we already have now and there is no way in hell we can leave the eu and get the same/better deals as an individual country.

I know that won't change your mind, but I'm just trying to provide some honesty about what's over the horizon.

No rules that you can think of at the moment?

I know it’s not going to be easy, I have never thought differently.
Hopefully we can get back on our feet after a very short period.
I can’t see what good another referendum would do, May’s deal won’t get passed, whatever she comes up with, so I am left with the no deal option.:shrug:

[bots]

At this point Brexit is the only viable option that will let the country stop in fighting and move forward. A new ref or revoking article 50 wont solve anything, it will just prolong the agony.

No deal brexit, may be painful, but I would rather peoples energies were focused positively moving forward. May's deal is the best option available that stops all the crap now, followed by no deal. Revoking article 50 will extend this mess for years.

[The Slim Reaper]

At this point Brexit is the only viable option that will let the country stop in fighting and move forward. A new ref or revoking article 50 wont solve anything, it will just prolong the agony.

No deal brexit, may be painful, but I would rather peoples energies were focused positively moving forward. May's deal is the best option available that stops all the crap now, followed by no deal. Revoking article 50 will extend this mess for years.

Whatever happens with brexit, the country is going to be divided for years and possibly decades, so expecting people to hop on board and deal with unnecessary pain because you want them to channel it into positivity won't work. I know from reading your posts that you're sincere and try to come from a good place, but it's naive of you to expect people at risk of losing their businesses etc to just get on with it.

The referendum meant that there will be no winners from this sorry mess.

[chuff me dizzy]

So go on then. Explain it to us. Sell it. Why?

I do not need to sell anything to anyone no more than your vote doesn't need explaining either ( are you old enough to vote ?) My vote, my choice ,my priorities

[Tom4784]

Get an extension and gauge whether the people want no deal or not via a referendum, if No deal loses then Parliament needs to go back to the drawing board and see if the deal can be negotiated. If that falls through again, have another referendum to decide if people want to stay or go and then go from there.

[chuff me dizzy]

Get an extension and gauge whether the people want no deal or not via a referendum, if No deal loses then Parliament needs to go back to the drawing board and see if the deal can be negotiated. If that falls through again, have another referendum to decide if people want to stay or go and then go from there.

So therefore destroying democracy ?

[Alf]

I think we should surrender, like the cowards that we are.

[chuff me dizzy]

I think we should surrender, like the cowards that we are.

No backbones now Alf,we should take a leaf out of the Frenchs book !!

[Rob!]

I do not need to sell anything to anyone no more than your vote doesn't need explaining either ( are you old enough to vote ?) My vote, my choice ,my priorities

Gee, I wonder why there’s such division with such pleasant, non aggressive attitudes like that around?

[The Slim Reaper]

No backbones now Alf,we should take a leaf out of the Frenchs book !!

Do you know that it's a xenophobic myth that the French are surrendering cowards?

[Alf]

Do you know that it's a xenophobic myth that the French are surrendering cowards?Tell us something that isn't phobic or an ism?

Did you know that by speaking negative of Everton football club, could be considered a hate crime, if I decided that my feelings were hurt?

[The Slim Reaper]

Tell us something that isn't phobic or an ism?

Did you know that by speaking negative of Everton football club, could be considered a hate crime, if I decided that my feelings were hurt?

I can tell you that speaking negatively about everton isn't phobic or an ism, it's just picking low hanging fruit.

[Ant.]

this thread is why I steer clear of SN&D

[Withano]

It's unlikely that we're going to continue with referendum after referendum until we reach the result you prefer.

Imagine if 'remain' had won and Brexiters started demanding another referendum. I can imagine what your reaction would be. YOU would be lecturing ME about democracy.

Untrue. If there was genuine motive for a new referendum after remain won (like an ibvious shift in mindsets or ukip ever winning a single seat) then it would be worth discussing again.

The mindset of 2016 is not a reason to go against the mindset of people in 2019. And if the mindset shifts once more in 2022 back to leaves favour - it would be stupid to ignore it based on how we felt in 2019.

[Brother Leon]

Second referendum. No one explicitly voted for a No Deal Brexit, not even the Leavers were pushing that.

[Alf]

Second referendum. No one explicitly voted for a No Deal Brexit, not even the Leavers were pushing that.In the General election, the Conservatives ran on, "No deal is better than a bad deal" and they were voted in. So we did vote for no deal.

[Northern Monkey]

Er.....

The armed forces have activated a team in a nuclear-proof bunker under the Ministry of Defence as the government prepares next Monday to enter "very high readiness mode" for a no-deal Brexit, Sky News can reveal.

Control of overall planning for the impact of the UK leaving the European Union without a withdrawal agreement next week shifts from the Cabinet Office to the government's emergency committee Cobra.

[chuff me dizzy]

Second referendum. No one explicitly voted for a No Deal Brexit, not even the Leavers were pushing that.

Nowhere on the ballot paper did it say DEAL, there were 2 options "Leave or remain "

[Rob!]

Nowhere on the ballot paper did it say DEAL, there were 2 options "Leave or remain "

Nowhere did it say “leave with no deal” either.

[chuff me dizzy]

Nowhere did it say “leave with no deal” either.

Leave is leave

[Twosugars]

Leave is leave

leave the eu
what about single market and customs union? you can leave the eu and remain a member in these two as people were not asked about that
it's all bs

[Wizard.]

Hard Brexit. The only people who want a second referendum are those who want to remain and those who couldn't be arsed to vote in the first referendum.

Democracy has spoken. We need to leave.

True. I see people who wanted a 'second referendum' to allow the people to have a say, only to now say they want Article 50 revoked realising that a second ref is highly unlikely now we have an actual deadline of May 22nd. So it shows all they ever really wanted was to try and win and remain anyway.

[Wizard.]

Nowhere did it say “leave with no deal” either.

No but that surely comes under the Leave category. There were many different ways of 'Leave' and only one way to Remain, so whatever way we leave deal or no deal then Leave voters have to accept that and Remain voters should respect that.

[Daniel-X]

This thread really separates the level headed among us huh

[Daniel-X]

May’s deal or No Deal, either way the future is ****ing bleak.

[Alf]

May’s deal or No Deal, either way the future is ****ing bleak.The future is what you make it.

Didn't you learn anything from Back to the future?

[Glenn.]

Hard Brexit. The only people who want a second referendum are those who want to remain and those who couldn't be arsed to vote in the first referendum.

Democracy has spoken. We need to leave.

.

[joeysteele]

If I could, I would vote for the agreement as Mrs May has it.
Reluctantly.
More to get it over with than any other reason.

However, were a second referendum held,. With all the nightmare it would be.
Then it would depend what choices were on the ballot paper.

If remain was on, I'd vote remain again.

If it wasn't, then it would depend what was on the ballot paper but I'd never vote for a hard brexit no deal.
Never ever.

[user104658]

"Democracy has spoken - more than half of the country agreed to commit economic suicide, and thus - even in full knowledge that it will be a disaster - that is what we shall do, else democracy is dead or something"

[Crimson Dynamo]

Do you know that it's a xenophobic myth that the French are surrendering cowards?

explain this please

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Democracy has spoken - more than half of the country agreed to commit economic suicide, and thus - even in full knowledge that it will be a disaster - that is what we shall do, else democracy is dead or something"

TS people dont vote worrying about big business share prices


this cant be news?

[The Slim Reaper]

explain this please

It's pretty self explanatory. Which bit do you need me to explain? The idea that the French are, as Partridge would say "cheese-eating surrender-monkeys" is a myth.

[user104658]

TS people dont vote worrying about big business share prices





this cant be news?You can't be suggesting that real jobs and incomes (and prices) won't be affected?

[Rob!]

Leave is leave

Do you even know what that means love

[Tom4784]

So therefore destroying democracy ?

If you think that then you don't understand what democracy is or, more likely, you only value democracy when it swings your way.

Just wondering, do you think we should no longer have elections? After all, we voted one way a few years back and it would be completely undemocratic to ignore that result or see if we want a change of leadership because, in your eyes, votes are a one time thing and can never be done again.... As long as they go your way.

People voted for Brexit back in 2016, they didn't vote what kind of brexit they want. When faced with a no deal brexit, it's only fair if the people are heard in regards to what kind of brexit they want. If you have a problem with that then it's you that's 'destroying democracy' since you seem to want to strip people of their right to have a say seemingly out of fear that it won't go your way.

[Tom4784]

Do you even know what that means love

Brexiters rarely do.

[Wizard.]

If you think that then you don't understand what democracy is or, more likely, you only value democracy when it swings your way.

Just wondering, do you think we should no longer have elections? After all, we voted one way a few years back and it would be completely undemocratic to ignore that result or see if we want a change of leadership because, in your eyes, votes are a one time thing and can never be done again.... As long as they go your way.

People voted for Brexit back in 2016, they didn't vote what kind of brexit they want. When faced with a no deal brexit, it's only fair if the people are heard in regards to what kind of brexit they want. If you have a problem with that then it's you that's 'destroying democracy' since you seem to want to strip people of their right to have a say seemingly out of fear that it won't go your way.

Remain isn't a kind of Brexit though. I just do not believe that if we had another referendum and it went in the way of Remain that we could put the last 2 years behind us and carry on as normal. If we want to go back to the EU in 10 years time, then have another referendum then and if the majority is to seek to re-join then so be it, but let us implement the result of the 2016 referendum first.

[Tom4784]

Remain isn't a kind of Brexit though. I just do not believe that if we had another referendum and it went in the way of Remain that we could put the last 2 years behind us and carry on as normal. If we want to go back to the EU in 10 years time, then have another referendum then and if the majority is to seek to re-join then so be it, but let us implement the result of the 2016 referendum first.

My original post stated that I'd have a vote whether people wanted No Deal or not. Chuff assumed that the brexit she wanted is the same that everyone else wants and completely misunderstood what I was saying. I think it's important to gauge whether the country wants a no deal brexit before we are thrown into it.

If people voted against No Deal Brexit but opposed any of deals that the EU offered than a do over off the original referendum is the only realistic option. If the 'will of the people' is still the same as it was back in 2016 then leavers have nothing to fear, it's only people who are scared that votes won't go their way that try to shut such votes down.

If people voted to leave in that referendum then I'd say just go for a no deal and let them suffer the consequences.

[bots]

i am getting to the point now where I just don't care what way we end up going as long as it gets resolved one way or another without further delay. Whatever way we go, people will just have to make the best of it.

[chuff me dizzy]

THIS is how desperate the referendum losers are

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR04G7WetZi6NmpP3u4lJHDBW77xhPBMYfIaIv26p 4UUWUepoP-UaMbIiIc

[The Slim Reaper]

THIS is how desperate the referendum losers are

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR04G7WetZi6NmpP3u4lJHDBW77xhPBMYfIaIv26p 4UUWUepoP-UaMbIiIc

4chan are internet alt-right trolls. They aren't doing this to support the petition, they're doing it to try and screw it up on behalf of your side. Which is perfectly in keeping with the chicanery used for the referendum.

The problem is that we all lose when this goes through, especially if it's a no deal.

[Northern Monkey]

i am getting to the point now where I just don't care what way we end up going as long as it gets resolved one way or another without further delay. Whatever way we go, people will just have to make the best of it.

Kind of in the same boat.
I think morally we should leave but not super passionate about it.Whatever we do,just get on with it ffs.

[Rob!]

THIS is how desperate the referendum losers are

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR04G7WetZi6NmpP3u4lJHDBW77xhPBMYfIaIv26p 4UUWUepoP-UaMbIiIc

Lol that’s the leave losers trying to wreck the poll and thereby the notion of free speech. Pathetic AND desperate :)