Birmingham school should resume LGBT lessons ex-Ofsted chief says

[TomC]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/mar/25/birmingham-school-should-resume-lgbt-lessons-says-former-ofsted-chief?CMP=fb_gu

A Birmingham primary school that suspended lessons about LGBT rights following protests by parents should resume them, the former head of the schools watchdog has said.

“Parents of pupils at Parkfield community school in Saltley have staged weekly protests over the lessons, which they claim promote gay and transgender lifestyles. Earlier this month, hundreds of mainly Muslim children, aged between four and 11, were withdrawn from the school for the day.”

[TomC]

So glad this case is getting such recognition. There’s no place for this ignorance, bigotry and downright stupidity in this country

[Beso]

So glad this case is getting such recognition. There’s no place for this ignorance, bigotry and downright stupidity in this country

How old are you?


I'm 49.

When I was at primary school I got taught maths and the usual stuff...sex came in at secondary school...but I did get me balls felt by a stranger in p6 or 4.

So what's the point in distracting the education of kids with **** like this before they are at an age when it might actually effect them.:shrug:

[TomC]

How old are you?


I'm 49.

When I was at primary school I got taught maths and the usual stuff...sex came in at secondary school...but I did get me balls felt by a stranger in p6 or 4.

So what's the point in distracting the education of kids with **** like this before they are at an age when it might actually effect them.:shrug:

It’s not about ‘sex’, don’t be imbecilic. It’s about relationships. But as a matter of fact, we did get basic sex education in primary school a decade ago. It certainly did us nothing but good.

[Beso]

It’s not about ‘sex’, don’t be imbecilic. It’s about relationships. But as a matter of fact, we did get basic sex education in primary school a decade ago. It certainly did us nothing but good.

Oh give over...it's got nothing but appeasing a minority in its agenda....


I would feel patronised if I was in their shoes.

[Tom4784]

How old are you?


I'm 49.

When I was at primary school I got taught maths and the usual stuff...sex came in at secondary school...but I did get me balls felt by a stranger in p6 or 4.

So what's the point in distracting the education of kids with **** like this before they are at an age when it might actually effect them.:shrug:

They aren't teaching kids the ins and outs of gay sex, it's literally just story books in which the child might have two moms or two dads. That's it.

I utterly despise the attitude that simply talking about gay people existing with children is seen as inappropriate.

The school should tell those parents to **** off and reinstate the lessons, any more absences on this issue should be fined. If bigots use religion as their excuse, tell them to go to a faith school instead.

[Tom4784]

Oh give over...it's got nothing but appeasing a minority in its agenda....


I would feel patronised if I was in their shoes.

Pray tell, what is this agenda you oppose so much, I really want to know.

[TomC]

Oh give over...it's got nothing but appeasing a minority in its agenda....


I would feel patronised if I was in their shoes.

Absolutely not. It’s about educating everyone, and helping a minority greatly. It doesn’t harm ANYONE, except for bigoted parents’ fragile sensibilities.

Who would feel patronised?

[Oliver_W]

Oh give over...it's got nothing but appeasing a minority in its agenda....

Cancelling the LGBT lessons was also appeasing a minority, one who it could be argued would be more in need of learning that LGBT people are just like everyone else.

[Beso]

Pray tell, what is this agenda you oppose so much, I really want to know.

The agenda of having to appease minorities in the uk these days...


Imo. ..it patronises them. And I find that humiliating and sad for the minorities that governments have to have rules and regulations that further separate them from the percieved norm...do you honestly think a person that's made thier mind up is suddenly going to change thier minds? Cause I don't!


So from my view point.....it's a case of why point out a difference to a child when the child may not care if thier is a difference anyway?

[Beso]

Cancelling the LGBT lessons was also appeasing a minority, one who it could be argued would be more in need of learning that LGBT people are just like everyone else.

They are beyond help...pointing it out shows the future generation that thier is a difference :shrug:

[Tom4784]

The agenda of having to appease minorities in the uk these days...


Imo. ..it patronises them. And I find that humiliating and sad for the minorities that governments have to have rules and regulations that further separate them from the percieved norm...do you honestly think a person that's made thier mind up is suddenly going to change thier minds? Cause I don't!


So from my view point.....it's a case of why point out a difference to a child when the child may not care if thier is a difference anyway?

So you think teaching acceptance of gay people is 'appeasing' a minority?

[Beso]

So you think teaching acceptance of gay people is 'appeasing' a minority?

I don't see a need to teach the acceptence of gay people in the schools of the United Kingdom. ..unless something drastic has happened to our pupils since I was a kid then it should all be fine....or is this cause there are so many more children being brought up in the uk to believe that homosexuality or anything else that isn't seen as manly is a criminal offence punishable by being hurled from high story buildings?

[Tom4784]

I don't see a need to teach the acceptence of gay people in the schools of the United Kingdom. ..unless something drastic has happened to our pupils since I was a kid then it should all be fine....or is this cause there are so many more children being brought up in the uk to believe that homosexuality or anything else that isn't seen as manly is a criminal offence punishable by being hurled from high story buildings?

Yes, because when we were kids, the world was so accepting... I left school in 2006 and things have changed and become way more accepting in that short window of time so if you are older and you're trying to make out that people have always been accepting of homosexuality then, lol, you don't know the first thing you're talking about.

What's the problem with telling kids that some families have same sex parents and others don't? That's literally all there is to it but teaching that to kids can save lives because it normalisses homsexuality and gives gay kids something that they have often gone without, a feeling of acceptance and security in who they are.

There are no bad sides to this, the only people that think otherwise are people who take issue with homosexuality itself and refer to it as an 'agenda'....

[Beso]

The kids don't need patronised to this extent...little Johnny is still going to get bullied in the playground if he says he used to have a dad that's now demanding to be called mum...


All its doing is pointing out further things for school bullies to pick on someone for. Cause it makes that child feel like he or she can speak about it...the bully is always perched.

[Beso]

There are no bad sides to this, the only people that think otherwise are people who take issue with homosexuality itself and refer to it as an 'agenda'....
__________________




I hope my post above helps you with your paranoia.

[TomC]

What's the problem with telling kids that some families have same sex parents and others don't? That's literally all there is to it but teaching that to kids can save lives because it normalisses homsexuality and gives gay kids something that they have often gone without, a feeling of acceptance and security in who they are.

Exactly.

The kids don't need patronised to this extent...little Johnny is still going to get bullied in the playground if he says he used to have a dad that's now demanding to be called mum...


All its doing is pointing out further things for school bullies to pick on someone for. Cause it makes that child feel like he or she can speak about it...the bully is always perched.

In the same way, this education normalises differences to bullies, rather than ‘pointing out differences’. The prejudice that bullying is based on almost always starts at home, and this kind of education actually brings the class together, normalising the issue.

[Marsh.]

The kids don't need patronised to this extent...little Johnny is still going to get bullied in the playground if he says he used to have a dad that's now demanding to be called mum...


All its doing is pointing out further things for school bullies to pick on someone for. Cause it makes that child feel like he or she can speak about it...the bully is always perched.

The bullying involving stuff like this, kids having "Gay!!" shouted at them as an insult would actually stop with education like this. Making gay as normal and as casual as straight.

To say, "it should be fine" as though there's no issue, when the big uproar from a bigoted older generation at this school proves it is still an issue in need of addressing.

[Beso]

Exactly.



In the same way, this education normalises differences to bullies, rather than ‘pointing out differences’. The prejudice that bullying is based on almost always starts at home, and this kind of education actually brings the class together, normalising the issue.



No, the bully is a bully due to his home life, perhaps beatings from older siblings or father's....girls thinking they are it in a gang perhaps..basically the come in all shapes and sizes...but this is primary school age...and there is only one or two bullies each year..and they will always be bullies.


The bullied kid will be bullied by the bully because he or she is the only kid at school that has spoken up about his dad being mum or anything else that makes him stand out from the norm to the bully.

They ain't helping **** imo.

[Rob!]

It’s about teaching kids that homophobia and discrimination is wrong, there is no way anyone with half a brain cell can object to that.
Do you realise how many gay teens consider or even commit suicide because of their sexuality because of the amount of **** they get from bullying? This aims to eradicate that. It shouldn’t even be up for discussion. Any parent objecting to this should be told that their child isn’t needed at the school if that is the attitude they want to install in them, because yes, it is the parents that will ultimately cement that in their child.

[Oliver_W]

No, the bully is a bully due to his home life, perhaps beatings from older siblings or father's....girls thinking they are it in a gang perhaps..basically the come in all shapes and sizes...but this is primary school age...and there is only one or two bullies each year..and they will always be bullies.


The bullied kid will be bullied by the bully because he or she is the only kid at school that has spoken up about his dad being mum or anything else that makes him stand out from the norm to the bully.

They ain't helping **** imo.

Granted - most bullies are bullies because they have crappy lives, and might not actually care if someone is gay, but is using as an "excuse" to target someone.

But it's not just about curing bullies. It's about making people who might otherwise see homosexuality as wrong or sinful realise there's nothing wrong with it.

[Beso]

It’s about teaching kids that homophobia and discrimination is wrong, there is no way anyone with half a brain cell can object to that.
Do you realise how many gay teens consider or even commit suicide because of their sexuality because of the amount of **** they get from bullying? This aims to eradicate that. It shouldn’t even be up for discussion. Any parent objecting to this should be told that their child isn’t needed at the school if that is the attitude they want to install in them, because yes, it is the parents that will ultimately cement that in their child.

If you took the attitude of telling the parents that thier parent isn't needed at that school their wouldn't be many kids left in school in certain areas of certain cities.

[Beso]

Granted - most bullies are bullies because they have crappy lives, and might not actually care if someone is gay, but is using as an "excuse" to target someone.

But it's not just about curing bullies. It's about making people who might otherwise see homosexuality as wrong or sinful realise there's nothing wrong with it.

12 yr old kids?


Just cancel assembly it will work out if they are left without anything being said to them.

[Rob!]

If you took the attitude of telling the parents that thier parent isn't needed at that school their wouldn't be many kids left in school in certain areas of certain cities.

Well, no, because if the parent was the sort of person who would willingly take their child out of a school because said school is trying to teach their children that homophobia is wrong, that's on the parent.

[Twosugars]

This was the ex ofsted chief talking, not the current one.

Anyway, let's see how it plays out. It's a power struggle between equality and pandering to religious prejudice. I'd not hold my breath with tories in charge.

[Beso]

Well, no, because if the parent was the sort of person who would willingly take their child out of a school because said school is trying to teach their children that homophobia is wrong, that's on the parent.

But that's the reality facing that attitude.

[Rob!]

But that's the reality facing that attitude.

As it should be. Choose between your own bigotted beliefs or the importance of your child's education.

[Elliot]

Religious bigotry should never triumph human rights, so I’m glad this is the decision that has been made and they haven’t just let themselves get walked over.

[Beso]

As it should be. Choose between your own bigotted beliefs or the importance of your child's education.

Is it really important and educational enough to be taught to children..I'm not really seeing what they are benifitting from here.:shrug:

[arista]

Aged 4 is too young
that's what the whole problem is.

[Oliver_W]

Aged 4 is too young
that's what the whole problem is.

SRE in KS1 isn't until year 2 so they're not aged 4, and even that only really talks about families and growth.

[Tom4784]

The kids don't need patronised to this extent...little Johnny is still going to get bullied in the playground if he says he used to have a dad that's now demanding to be called mum...


All its doing is pointing out further things for school bullies to pick on someone for. Cause it makes that child feel like he or she can speak about it...the bully is always perched.

Ir's patronising to tell kids that some families have same sex parents? You seem to be jumping through a lot of illogical hoops to defend what is blatant homophobia on the part of these parents. Not a good look.

The whole bullying argument is such a case of virtue signalling. 'Oh no! We can't teach kids that gay people exist or they might be bullied! It's much better for them to feel completely isolated and alone throughout their childhoods and hope they can be happier in adulthood, if they make it that far!'

The whole bullying line is just a way to keep gay people out of sight and out of mind, it's bull****. People get bullied for all sorts of reasons, it doesn't mean that we should bow to it and impede process out of fear, you're preaching cowardice.

[Tom4784]

Aged 4 is too young
that's what the whole problem is.

At that age they are watching Disney films in which princes and princesses fall in love and live happily ever after, what's the problem with telling exactly the same story but with same sex leads? Or showing same sex parents in a kid's book?

Explain it to me, Arista. What's the difference? What makes one so wrong and the other perfectly fine?

[Rob!]

Is it really important and educational enough to be taught to children..I'm not really seeing what they are benifitting from here.:shrug:

You don’t see what’s beneficial about being taught from a young age that discrimination and homophobia is wrong? :umm2:

[Beso]

You don’t see what’s beneficial about being taught from a young age that discrimination and homophobia is wrong? :umm2:

Is that what they are being taught?...isn't it that these things are normal...I'm doubting a 8yr old will even be able to say those words correctly let alone know what they mean.

[Tom4784]

Is that what they are being taught?...isn't it that these things are normal...I'm doubting a 8yr old will even be able to say those words correctly let alone know what they mean.

Homophobia is learned behaviour and people learn from a young age, what's your problem with teaching kids 'some girls and boys like other girls and boys and that's perfectly normal.'

Honestly, there's no real reason to oppose this except for that you oppose homosexuality being normalised and treated no differently heterosexuality.

[Marsh.]

Aged 4 is too young
that's what the whole problem is.

Aged 4 isn't currently too young to be read books about mummies and daddies and family groups. Including same sex parents in those stories/discussions is not teaching 4 year olds about anything sexual.

[Tom4784]

If you're okay with kids watching Disney fairy tales about people falling in love then you have no grounds against this when it's just as pure and wholesome.

[AnnieK]

We have two same sex families in my son's school and its a small school. Its becoming more commonplace now and so needs to be included in the education of children. To be honest, my son is 8 and said they all talk about sex in the playground (although he thought kissing was people having "face sex"). Kids find things out a lot earlier now and they talk, ensuring they get a balanced view of the world including relationships at an early age will lead to less stigma as they get older.

However, as much as schools play a part, what is said at home plays a huge part too - no good schools normalising LGBT issues and then kids going home to be told differently, which is part of the problem and teaching in school will only be effective if it is coupled with back up from home.

[Niamh.]

Face sex :laugh2: Brilliant

[Marsh.]

I dread to think how small kids discuss sex in the playground, my nephew said it was when people rub their jeans together when he was little. :umm2: I mean, he was in the right area of the body I guess but. :omgno:

[Twosugars]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/02/parkfield-school-protest-teacher-silenced
Parkfield LGBT protest: Why has the school’s top teacher been silenced?
Andrew Moffat faces daily taunts and graffiti amid fears of capitulation to parents

On the same day that MPs voted 538 to 21 for the introduction of compulsory relationship and sex education last week Muslim activists at a Birmingham school were accusing teachers of using clay models to demonstrate LGBT “sexual mechanics” with children aged four and five.

It is the latest in a series of outlandish and unproven claims that teachers at Parkfield community school, twice judged outstanding by Ofsted, have had to endure over the past six weeks. After four years of good relations with parents – 98% Muslim – the school has become the test bed of the law before it is even introduced due to its award-winning teaching on equality and diversity. Parents, backed by activists from outside the catchment area, have been holding weekly demonstrations at the school and keeping pupils out of lessons, claiming that teachers are encouraging their children to be gay.

The school strongly denies that it is teaching about sex to young children. Yet it has been advised by Department for Education (DfE) officials negotiating with parents to call off the lessons and not to issue denials or talk to the media for fear of inflaming the situation.

Hazel Pulley, Parkfield’s headteacher for nine years and now CEO of the Excelsior Trust, which has run it for the past two, told the Guardian in 2016: “Parents know that we respect Islam here and we are not in any way disrespecting it. We are saying that we are teaching is the law of our country. I tell them that whatever they say indoors is their decision but it is lovely that children will hear both views.”

Protest organisers make it clear that they are aiming to have the teaching abolished “not just in this school but at every school in Birmingham and every school in the country”. Observers warn that what is happening in Birmingham will be mirrored across England when the lessons are introduced in September 2020, unless the government stands firm on equal rights and diversity.

Parkfield appears to be teaching only what the government – and MPs – want all primary schools to tell pupils. Statutory DfE guidance in February said the new primary relationship teaching should include “different family relationships” and “the right to equality under the law for people who are LGBT”.

However, Andrew Moffat, Parkfield’s gay assistant headteacher, who drew up the award-winning lesson programme for equality and diversity, has been targeted, nicknamed “Mufti Moffat” and even had to walk into school past graffiti saying “No Gays Here.”

His “No Outsiders” lessons showing that everyone is welcome whatever their differences, have been stopped and last week he was banned from taking equalities assemblies – showing how different communities come together to help each other – after some children walked out in protest.

Homophobic incidents at the school have quadrupled compared with the same time last year, several directed at him, school sources say.

Moffat, unable to eat or sleep properly, has effectively been silenced, say his friends. Other teachers are also upset and shaking and staff absence has increased significantly. Pulley has said staff are “distraught”.

Moffat has received hundreds of messages of support by email and post – one parent even sent a hamper of cakes and biscuits to cheer him up. Though many parents at the school support him and the teaching, the un-challenged allegations are fuelling concern.

In fact, Moffat, who is in charge of pastoral care, does not take the lessons. That is done by classroom teachers with the doors open with teaching assistants – mainly from the Muslim community – present. The concern appears to be over two of the books used with children aged four and five – the first encourages pupils to think about different families. “Some families are big, some families are small …some have a step mum or dad, some adopt children … some families have two mums or two dads, sometimes they have one parent instead of two,” it says.

The second, Mommy, Mama and Me, is about a child with two mummies, showing how both can care for the child.

Ofsted carried out a special inspection last month and reported that the teaching was “age appropriate” and that most parents accepted it. It re-confirmed its “outstanding” judgment.

Moffat has been awarded the CBE for his work to promote community cohesion and last month was one of 10 finalists worldwide for the prestigious US$1m Varkey Foundation global teacher prize.

Prof Colin Diamond, of the University of Birmingham and a former deputy education commissioner, says the decision to call off the lessons is “terrifying”.

“It’s sending out the message that the curriculum is negotiable according to mob rule. I have yet to see any statement of unequivocal support for the school from the DfE. Headteachers working further afield where the protests have spread, such as Oldham and Manchester, are vulnerable unless they can count on local and national support,” warns Diamond, a former deputy education commissioner for Birmingham.

A spokesperson for the Department for Education said: “We want children to know that there are many types of relationships – that’s why we are making relationships education compulsory in all primary schools from 2020. This will ensure pupils are taught the building blocks needed for positive and safe relationships of all kinds – starting with family and friends – and how to treat each other with kindness, consideration and respect.

“Following the introduction of the new regulations, there is time for schools to consult parents on how the new subjects will be taught. Schools talk to their parents all the time so we trust head teachers to take the decisions as to what is appropriate for their pupils to be taught.

“No school or teacher should face undue pressure from outside their school communities. The department will do all it can to support headteachers to do their jobs, free from intimidation.”

• This article was amended on 2 April 2019 to add a response from the Department for Education that was received after the production deadline.

I still don't know what the situation is atm? Anybody heard anything?

[Beso]

Homophobia is learned behaviour and people learn from a young age, what's your problem with teaching kids 'some girls and boys like other girls and boys and that's perfectly normal.'

Honestly, there's no real reason to oppose this except for that you oppose homosexuality being normalised and treated no differently heterosexuality.



You mean teach Johnny and Cheryl who sit next to each other in class and play with each other at playtime that it's normal that boys can like girls and girls can like girls and boys can like boys...or are we sneeking sexual preferences into it somewhere along the line, cause uou ain't teaching them nothing that they don't already know about boys being allowed to like boys, or girls....so it can only be about sexual preferences and that should all be incumbered in the sex ed years if school, not some sit down for 8 yr old olds with the local transvestite shoving his hand up a puppets arse.

[Twosugars]

You mean teach Johnny and Cheryl who sit next to each other in class and play with each other at playtime that it's normal that boys can like girls and girls can like girls and boys can like boys...or are we sneeking sexual preferences into it somewhere along the line, cause uou ain't teaching them nothing that they don't already know about boys being allowed to like boys, or girls....so it can only be about sexual preferences and that should all be incumbered in the sex ed years if school, not some sit down for 8 yr old olds with the local transvestite shoving his hand up a puppets arse.

what vivid imagination you have

luckily back on planet earth, the government-approved curriculum teaches children that there are different family setups, including two dads or two mums.
Statutory DfE guidance in February said the new primary relationship teaching should include “different family relationships” and “the right to equality under the law for people who are LGBT”.
so you know, they are teaching equality and diversity, the stuff that's the law of the land?

[Beso]

Stupid law.

[Tom4784]

So you're a homophobe, cool. Thanks for clearing that up.