Afterlife

[Redway]

Deep-ish for an early morning thread. What are people’s thoughts on reincarnation/life after death?

[Elliot]

I don’t believe in it at all. While I’d like to there’s literally 0 logic behind a lot of afterlife theories, even ‘scientific’ and it’s no wonder they’re so frequent in religion

[Jigs]

I like to think I'll live again, only with no recollection of my previous life. However I realise this is extremely unlikely and there's no empirical evidence to suggest anything about any sort of afterlife

[Niamh.]

As humans we only live once imo but I suppose you could say we live on in other things when we return to the ground through plant life etc?

[smudgie]

Your body dies, your soul lives on.

None of this playing harps on fluffy clouds stuff, maybe more of waiting about to be reincarnated.:shrug:

[Northern Monkey]

What is a soul really though?
To me it’s an ancient religious idea that made it possible to enter an afterlife.An idea that has carried over until now.

I think,Once the blood stops pumping,the oxygen stops,the brain dies and the spark goes out.Then that’s it.Any idea of a soul dies with it.

Our brains are incredibly clever machines and they give us a sense of self.
We are just biological AI’s.

[user104658]

Since physical changes to the brain (deterioration or trauma, or even just hormonal and chemical fluctuation) can significantly alter both personality and memory, it seems to me that it's effectively proven that personality is not separate to the physical brain, and thus its very unlikely that an individual personality (as we understand it) persists when the brain is dead / destroyed.

As I know you've posted lots about ECT Redway, I think it's worth asking the question; how can you believe that an individual exists outside of their physical brain and persists when that brain ceases to exist, and also believe in ECT (that physically affecting the brain can alter mood or even personality)? I find the two to be inherently incompatible.

[Livia]

We don't even know how out own brains work. No way can we comprehend what happens after we die, even if we think we know. Those who have faith see it differently... and not just those who have faith, spiritual people too.

If someone believe that we go on after death, why not allow them that belief?

[Beso]

You all get sucked up into the giant brain of the very first one of your ancestors who came to earth years and years ago..he pissed off back to wherever he came from leaving his jizz to populate his brain food on earth.

[user104658]

We don't even know how out own brains work. No way can we comprehend what happens after we die, even if we think we know. Those who have faith see it differently... and not just those who have faith, spiritual people too.

If someone believe that we go on after death, why not allow them that belief?

I don't think anyone is disallowing other people their beliefs... But does allowing people their beliefs mean never discussing belief (or the lack)? Sharing the belief that it doesn't seem logically likely (and the reasons for that belief) is no different to someone sharing their belief that it is possible?

[user104658]

You all get sucked up into the giant brain of the very first one of your ancestors who came to earth years and years ago..he pissed off back to wherever he came from leaving his jizz to populate his brain food on earth.This seems like a feasible option also.

[Niamh.]

I don't think anyone is disallowing other people their beliefs... But does allowing people their beliefs mean never discussing belief (or the lack)? Sharing the belief that it doesn't seem logically likely (and the reasons for that belief) is no different to someone sharing their belief that it is possible?

It only seems to be people who don't believe in an After life who aren't allowed voice their opinions aswell. It's perfectly fine for you to say you believe in reincarnation rather than Heaven even though that's also saying you don't think Heaven is real

[joeysteele]

We don't even know how out own brains work. No way can we comprehend what happens after we die, even if we think we know. Those who have faith see it differently... and not just those who have faith, spiritual people too.

If someone believe that we go on after death, why not allow them that belief?

Well said Livia.

I have always myself tried to keep an open mind on this.

Form personal experiences and the faith I was born into, although I have moved considerably from that faith now, particularly as to its teachings.

You make very strong points.

[MTVN]

What afterlife that's non reincarnation do people believe in out of interest? Heaven?

[Shaun]

Yeah I think any form of afterlife would have to technically constitute as "reincarnation" lol, whether it's literal (ie. corporeal) or spiritual.

I don't believe in it but it's not something that preoccupies me and is something I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on, lol. Just not if that means I have to subscribe to some sort of religious code to make sure I get a "nice afterlife".

[Livia]

I don't think anyone is disallowing other people their beliefs... But does allowing people their beliefs mean never discussing belief (or the lack)? Sharing the belief that it doesn't seem logically likely (and the reasons for that belief) is no different to someone sharing their belief that it is possible?

No, it doesn't mean no one should discuss it. It's just that the "once you're dead, you're dead and that's it" stance is pretty cold because the people who uphold that belief are so very sure of themselves. I remember being recently-bereaved and having several people tell me in a discussion how once you're dead you just rot in the ground. Now, I don't claim that they were saying stuff to upset me, they weren't. It's just no one knows for sure. No one. And in addition, non-religious people don't understand faith so attack it all the time in the firm opinion that they're right.

I do believe our soul, our energy, whatever you want to call it goes on and I also believe that what happens to you when you're dead depends on the kind of life you've lived.

Jews don't believe in heaven and hell, it's complicated... but there's a Jewish joke that says when we die we all go the the same place where Moses and other rabbis teach the Torah and the Talmud for eternity. To the righteous, this is heaven. To the wicked, it equates to eternal suffering.

[Livia]

What afterlife that's non reincarnation do people believe in out of interest? Heaven?

I believe "something" happens. I have no idea what.

[Livia]

It only seems to be people who don't believe in an After life who aren't allowed voice their opinions aswell. It's perfectly fine for you to say you believe in reincarnation rather than Heaven even though that's also saying you don't think Heaven is real

That's not true.

The people that have no religion and the people who believe you just rot when you die believe they're right. I'm tired of defending my religion on here while people insult it because somehow they think they're more enlightened. It's impossible to discuss religion, and as a consequence, life after death, and not have your faith attacked by people with what they believe to be facts.

[Niamh.]

That's not true.

The people that have no religion and the people who believe you just rot when you die believe they're right. I'm tired of defending my religion on here while people insult it because somehow they think they're more enlightened. It's impossible to discuss religion, and as a consequence, life after death, and not have your faith attacked by people with what they believe to be facts.

No one is asking you to defend anything, if you don't want to debate then don't? And so what if people believe they're right about there being no afterlife, people who believe there is also believe they're right

[Livia]

No one is asking you to defend anything, if you don't want to debate then don't? And so what if people believe they're right about there being no afterlife, people who believe there is also believe they're right

I don't know why you're being prickly with me Niamh. Have I upset you in some way?

I always say I uphold everyone's right to have their own their beliefs without being called a moron, or told they're believing in fairy stories. Everyone has a right to their beliefs, or to having none. Sadly that doesn't ever seem to be a two way street.

[Moniqua]

when we die, our spirit/soul leaves our bodies and then we just float wherever we want around the world for eternity WHEW :dazzler:

[Nicky91]

i don't know what to believe honestly

[user104658]

Giving it consideration I've gone with "other".

I stand by what I said before; "personality" is so firmly linked to the physical structure and chemical makeup of the brain that I don't think, in the absense of that brain, anything that's left behind could feasibly be thought of as "that same person". After all, what is a person? It so fundamentally affected by things like hormonal changes - and even just time - that surely it's impossible to take a snapshot of "a person" and say that it persists. Which version of the self? You today? You 5 years ago? You when your adrenaline is spiking? You when your serotonin is low? All very "different people" and you can take that to an extreme with dementia and brain injury. Brain injury has been shown to RADICALLY alter personality; turning the nicest people you'll ever meet nasty, or the gentlest of "souls" dangerously violent. So what if that happens to someone, and then 5 years later they die? "Who" is in the afterlife? Is it that "good" person who once existed, or is it the "bad" violent one that existed at the time of death? What of dementia? Does the healthy adult they were 30 years before they died live on in the afterlife, or the confused 90 year old with no memory of their loved ones who existed in the years leading up to death? And if we say it's the younger one - then what of that older personality? Did they simply never exist? Is their existence doomed because they're a less desirable version of "them"?

I can't get my head around that. I just don't know that identities are strong enough to persist in any meaningful way even DURING life, let alone beyond it. People who existed 10 years ago don't exist today - and it's not because they died. Where are those individuals?


So then I get onto, what IS possible in terms of persistent life... because I'm not dogmatically atheist and I don't think we as human beings have even scraped the surface of science, let alone having "all the answers".

There's a lot of pretty solid theory that "time" is nothing like we perceive it or understand it... and that's where I think it gets interesting. In theory, there is no such thing as now, or then, today, or yesterday... and thus no such thing as alive, or dead. If time really isn't linear then everyone who exists today, has ever existed, or will ever exist as we perceive it actually all exist concurrently and infinitely. So I suppose that's believing in life after death, or rather, life alongside death? "After" is a meaningless word if you're talking about non-linear existence though so I guess not technically an afterlife... just "life", no before or after. Just existence, all at once.

[The Slim Reaper]

There is no evidence that any of this is more than a nice story we tell each other to feel better about the fact we die.

[user104658]

There is no evidence that any of this is more than a nice story we tell each other to feel better about the fact we die.

Well yes, to be fair there's a lot of evidence (or at least supporting theory) that the classic concepts of "heaven" and "reincarnation" aren't even to make us feel better about the dead, but rather, to make the "average working person" in a society feel better about their life as it is. From classic agricultural societies onwards there's been a heavy focus on "the good stuff" / morality that gets you into heaven involving A) Hard work and B) Not complaining about the hard work. People are less likely to complain about being oppressed and exploited if they believe that the "sweat of their brow" is a moral victory, and less likely to complain about poor or unequal quality of life if they believe that their "grand reward" awaits in the afterlife.

If people can see a light at the end of the tunnel, they'll keep trudging down the tunnel. If there's no light at the end - they might try to find their own solution - and "those at the top" certainly do NOT want that to happen.

It's slowly phasing out in the modern world though, in favour of entertainment and distraction. People are content with bite-sized servings of everyday happiness rather than "BIG happiness at the end, I promise!"

[Twosugars]

I don't share your optimism that religion is being phased out.
Don't underestimate the irrationality of people. It is merely dormant and liable to come back stronger and stranger at any point when societies go through a difficult patch.

[user104658]

I don't share your optimism that religion is being phased out.
Don't underestimate the irrationality of people. It is merely dormant and liable to come back stronger and stranger at any point when societies go through a difficult patch.

My observation of it is that it's polarising. You don't really get your "granny's" religion any more where everyone was "quite religious" and went to Church on a Sunday etc. etc... there are far more people who either actively don't believe (having given it thought) or "passively" don't observe religion (having given it no thought and don't care either way)... but on the other hand... the still large section of society that believes, is becoming "more religious". I wouldn't use the word "extreme" as that's an exaggeration, mostly, but definitely more "involved" and well read on their religion.

I guess in theory, it's that the "default" for people who aren't interested either way is now NON-religion, whereas the "default" used to be going along with the rituals and ceremonies of religion out of tradition?


That said - I don't think "the afterlife" and "organised religion" are necessarily the same debate. I mean obviously, organised religions have their doctrine on the afterlife, but I don't think everyone who believes in (or at least is open to the idea of) an afterlife necessarily observes any religious practice.

[bots]

We have proven pre birth memories so why not post death? The brain and the nervous system and then individual cells are so inter connected that we just dont have the requisite knowledge to make a valued judgement at this point in time.

Also, i'm one that believes in the possibilities of alternative universes. If you have an alternate self in another universe are you then truly dead?

[Lostie!]

I believe "something" happens. I have no idea what.

This is exactly the same for me. I don't subscribe to any particular religious belief, but I do think (or perhaps like to think) that there's something after.

And if there's not at least I won't know :laugh:

[Twosugars]

We have proven pre birth memories so why not post death? The brain and the nervous system and then individual cells are so inter connected that we just dont have the requisite knowledge to make a valued judgement at this point in time.

Also, i'm one that believes in the possibilities of alternative universes. If you have an alternate self in another universe are you then truly dead?

Have we? :conf:
Care to link to the relevant proof/research?

[Niamh.]

Have we? :conf:
Care to link to the relevant proof/research?

I was wondering about this one too :o

[bots]

I was wondering about this one too :o

ok, maybe not proven, but lots of anecdotal evidence :laugh: For example I know that children can remember music played in the womb

[Redway]

Since physical changes to the brain (deterioration or trauma, or even just hormonal and chemical fluctuation) can significantly alter both personality and memory, it seems to me that it's effectively proven that personality is not separate to the physical brain, and thus its very unlikely that an individual personality (as we understand it) persists when the brain is dead / destroyed.

As I know you've posted lots about ECT Redway, I think it's worth asking the question; how can you believe that an individual exists outside of their physical brain and persists when that brain ceases to exist, and also believe in ECT (that physically affecting the brain can alter mood or even personality)? I find the two to be inherently incompatible.

Because there’s more to life than what meets the average eye.

[Matthew.]

I just hope I’m reincarnated as something decent, but knowing my luck I’ll come back as a bowling pin or something

[Twosugars]

ok, maybe not proven, but lots of anecdotal evidence :laugh: For example I know that children can remember music played in the womb
Anecdotal is not good enough, it means bc someone said so.
Besides what would that have to do with afterlife? The foetus is a living organism not a decaying one.

[Niamh.]

Anecdotal is not good enough, it means bc someone said so.
Besides what would that have to do with afterlife? The foetus is a living organism not a decaying one.

Yeah I mean there's lots of anecdotal stories saying ghosts are real too

[Ant.]

On the fence.

I like to believe that, once I die, it's not just complete darkness. Although the fact I'm not 'certain' (conflicting evidence to suggest there is one/isn't one, but on that note, no one is sure. Plus my knowledge on the arguments is minimal and I've not pursued it further so I don't feel like I can truly have a strong opinion on it since I've got little to base it on) plus the fact I never really think about a life after death means I'm not 100% believing it

Whether I believe in it or not is completely separate from my religious beliefs, despite the overlap.

So yeah, I'm open-minded as to what happens after death but I'd like to hope there is something.

[Smithy]

We have proven pre birth memories so why not post death?

ok, maybe not proven,


:laugh2:

[AnnieK]

I've written about this before but when my Grandad died he promised if there was anything on the "other side", he would come back and tell me. I spent 6 months ****ting it after he died that he would be sat on my edge of my bed in the middle of the night.....but nothing.

Then when my mum was in the hospice about 24 hours before she died, the weirdest thing happened. She had been completely unresponsive for 2 days, breathing but no reaction to anything around her. She hadn't been with it for around a week but for 2 days there was nothing. However, she opened her eyes, looked into the corner.of the room, smiled and put her arms up as if she was hugging someone, she didn't look at any of us and as soon as her arms.met she was out of it again. One of the hospice nurses said similar things happen quite often with people near death and some say it's when previously passed loved ones come to "get" their spirits / souls, whatever.

Now I know.its probably some brain activity triggered by approaching death but I would love to think it was her dad coming to greet her. She died about 24 hours after that happened. My heart says there's something after, my head says there isn't.

TLDR : I'm on the fence

[GoldHeart]

We have proven pre birth memories so why not post death? The brain and the nervous system and then individual cells are so inter connected that we just dont have the requisite knowledge to make a valued judgement at this point in time.

Also, i'm one that believes in the possibilities of alternative universes. If you have an alternate self in another universe are you then truly dead?

Bots that sounds more like science fiction or something from Twilight Zone , still interesting though .

[Redway]

Bots that sounds more like science fiction or something from Twilight Zone , still interesting though .

He might have a point though.

[Northern Monkey]

The Multiverse is a legitimate scientific theory.

[GoldHeart]

He might have a point though.

I don't believe in that , but i find those things fascinating especially in movies:shrug: .

[Jessica.]

Everything about you is gone when you die. You just stop existing. There's still some organic matter that was your body, but it's not really you. That's my perspective. I don't think it's scary but I don't find it exciting either, obviously, it's just what it is. I don't have a problem with people believing in other things, you do you.

[Milja.]

when we die, our spirit/soul leaves our bodies and then we just float wherever we want around the world for eternity WHEW :dazzler:

Like a wig?

[Moniqua]

Like a wig?

NOT you still being alive :skull:

[Redway]

On the fence.

I like to believe that, once I die, it's not just complete darkness. Although the fact I'm not 'certain' (conflicting evidence to suggest there is one/isn't one, but on that note, no one is sure. Plus my knowledge on the arguments is minimal and I've not pursued it further so I don't feel like I can truly have a strong opinion on it since I've got little to base it on) plus the fact I never really think about a life after death means I'm not 100% believing it

Whether I believe in it or not is completely separate from my religious beliefs, despite the overlap.

So yeah, I'm open-minded as to what happens after death but I'd like to hope there is something.

What are your religious beliefs?

[Livia]

The Multiverse is a legitimate scientific theory.

The operative word being, theory, Monkey.

No one knows for sure, no matter how scientific you think you are or what "evidence" you might have seen. So what's the point in trying to beat someone down with an opinion? Not you personally, Monkey, I'm talking generally.

[Twosugars]

yeah, we don't have evidence either way so theoretically anything is possible: a god or no god. But the specificity of most religious doctrines makes them unlikely I.e. there may be a god out there, but the chances s/he is exactly as described by this or that set of holy scriptures are slim.

[Redway]

yeah, we don't have evidence either way so theoretically anything is possible: a god or no god. But the specificity of most religious doctrines makes them unlikely I.e. there may be a god out there, but the chances s/he is exactly as described by this or that set of holy scriptures are slim.

The Bible as it stands today is highly distorted, no doubt about that.

[joeysteele]

I've written about this before but when my Grandad died he promised if there was anything on the "other side", he would come back and tell me. I spent 6 months ****ting it after he died that he would be sat on my edge of my bed in the middle of the night.....but nothing.

Then when my mum was in the hospice about 24 hours before she died, the weirdest thing happened. She had been completely unresponsive for 2 days, breathing but no reaction to anything around her. She hadn't been with it for around a week but for 2 days there was nothing. However, she opened her eyes, looked into the corner.of the room, smiled and put her arms up as if she was hugging someone, she didn't look at any of us and as soon as her arms.met she was out of it again. One of the hospice nurses said similar things happen quite often with people near death and some say it's when previously passed loved ones come to "get" their spirits / souls, whatever.

Now I know.its probably some brain activity triggered by approaching death but I would love to think it was her dad coming to greet her. She died about 24 hours after that happened. My heart says there's something after, my head says there isn't.

TLDR : I'm on the fence

Fascinating read that.

So many things even from my teens I've come across has convinced me of more after human physical death.

I agree with the conflicts of mind and heart too.

However, already in my life,.I find my best decisions and how I approach issues, are the ones from my heart.

The mind is too practical and clinical mostly and often when I let my mind rule my heart.
They are my less good choices.

Great read AnnieK, thanks for posting it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

lets just deal with some science and facts that we all live our lives by and run the universe we live in

FiI-34PNsXY

[Redway]

lets just deal with some science and facts that we all live our lives by and run the universe we live in

FiI-34PNsXY

Let’s have a bit of respect for people’s opinions going forward.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Let’s have a bit of respect for people’s opinions going forward.

people can believe any stuff they want but there already is a scientific answer and its one that the laws of science that run the universe are based on

now you can either accept them or think that they are all wrong and that some anecdote is right - entirely your choice of course :)

[Redway]

people can believe any stuff they want but there already is a scientific answer and its one that the laws of science that run the universe are based on

now you can either accept them or think that they are all wrong and that some anecdote is right - entirely your choice of course :)

What rigid dogmatists fail to understand is that nothing’s proven for an absolute fact. Nothing.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What rigid dogmatists fail to understand is that nothing’s proven for an absolute fact. Nothing.

so we can wexect to see you jump out an airplane with no parachute?


refute that pesky gravity and biology and physics

[Redway]

Okay.

[Crimson Dynamo]

aB01BL0jVe8

[Redway]

We don’t have the same background or experiences re. spirituality and it shows.

[Livia]

Like I said earlier, just weeks after my husband died I was on a thread like this with people telling me to accept that when people die they just rot in the ground, with no thought to what those left behind go through. I mean, if that's what you believe, fine. But I'm so tired of people stating stuff as fact because a scientist said it. No one knows for sure, none of us will have a clue what happens until we shuffle off this mortal.... and that is the truth.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Like I said earlier, just weeks after my husband died I was on a thread like this with people telling me to accept that when people die they just rot in the ground, with no thought to what those left behind go through. I mean, if that's what you believe, fine. But I'm so tired of people stating stuff as fact because a scientist said it. No one knows for sure, none of us will have a clue what happens until we shuffle off this mortal.... and that is the truth.

Id rather listen to hundreds of years of peer reviewed scientific reasearch, research that has doubled life expentancy in the last 100 years and got us to the moon, than some book written 5000 years ago or an anecdote.

when people go into hospital they rely on science and human knowledge they dont get cured by bibles or praying, or a wise anecdote

[user104658]

What rigid dogmatists fail to understand is that nothing’s proven for an absolute fact. Nothing.There is no such thing as absolute fact, that much is true, the entire universe could (quite easily) be a dream or illusion.

However,

There being nonsuch thing as absolute certainty does not mean that all possibilities are assigned an equal share of probability. Which is something that I personally find a lot of specifically religious people (rather than openly spiritual people) fail to understand.

So whilst Christian heaven, reincarnation, or the idea that we all spring violently into another dimension via LT's butt hole are all theoretically possible, that doesn't make them probable, and in my opinion, any organised religious concept of afterlife is accurate is so highly improbable that it becomes functionally false.

The only viable (probable) answers are 1) there's simply nothing, or 2) it's something no one has thought of yet and that is likely beyond current human understanding completely.

[user104658]

Like I said earlier, just weeks after my husband died I was on a thread like this with people telling me to accept that when people die they just rot in the ground, with no thought to what those left behind go through. I mean, if that's what you believe, fine. But I'm so tired of people stating stuff as fact because a scientist said it. No one knows for sure, none of us will have a clue what happens until we shuffle off this mortal.... and that is the truth.Livia if someone came onto an unrelated thread and said those things to someone who had experienced recent loss, or worse came onto a thread about that loss to say things like "I don't think there's an afterlife sorry" then that would be reprehensible and awful. But... If it's a thread that's specifically about people's opinions on the afterlife (or lack of) then I don't think people can really be expected to share anything other than their genuine opinion on that topic; and it's inevitable that people will not always be in the place to be involved in or read that sort of discussion and should just avoid.

[Smithy]

Where do ghosts fit into all this?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Where do ghosts fit into all this?

ever seen a black one, or one dressed in a hoody and Nike?

[user104658]

Where do ghosts fit into all this?Some would say "the spirits of the dead lingering", others might argue that they're echoes in time, like memories stuck on a loop. Interestingly, you don't have to believe in anything supernatural or religious to believe in the second type of "ghost", you only have to understand that "time" is more complicated than it seems...

[Livia]

Livia if someone came onto an unrelated thread and said those things to someone who had experienced recent loss, or worse came onto a thread about that loss to say things like "I don't think there's an afterlife sorry" then that would be reprehensible and awful. But... If it's a thread that's specifically about people's opinions on the afterlife (or lack of) then I don't think people can really be expected to share anything other than their genuine opinion on that topic; and it's inevitable that people will not always be in the place to be involved in or read that sort of discussion and should just avoid.

You weren't here at the time so I have no real interest in you explaining to me why I was wrong.

[Livia]

Id rather listen to hundreds of years of peer reviewed scientific reasearch, research that has doubled life expentancy in the last 100 years and got us to the moon, than some book written 5000 years ago or an anecdote.

when people go into hospital they rely on science and human knowledge they dont get cured by bibles or praying, or a wise anecdote

It was sixty years between learning to fly and landing on the moon.... we have truly been here for an insignificant moment in the scheme of things. we know **** all, Trumpet. And after all those triumphs you've stated, what have we done to the planet in the course of it? Oh yeah, we're all really clever us humans.

And you know, I don't think I mentioned religion. We were talking about what happens when you die. And like I said... no one really knows. And beating people down with what is essentially your own unfounded opinion doesn't make you any more right.

[joeysteele]

Like I said earlier, just weeks after my husband died I was on a thread like this with people telling me to accept that when people die they just rot in the ground, with no thought to what those left behind go through. I mean, if that's what you believe, fine. But I'm so tired of people stating stuff as fact because a scientist said it. No one knows for sure, none of us will have a clue what happens until we shuffle off this mortal.... and that is the truth.



Absolutely right and very well said.

I don't think actually either that all Scientists would discount the possibility of something after death.

[Livia]

Absolutely right and very well said.

I don't think actually either that all Scientists would discount the possibility of something after death.

I always talk about my cousin who is a physicist and a devout Jew. There are plenty of religious scientists... even thought I've had a few discussions on here with people who refuse to believe a devoutly religious person could also be a successful scientist. I don't understand why a person's personal view has to be knocked if it's different from someone else's. We might all be right! Or we might all be wrong... there's only one way to find out and I don't think any of us are ready to find out for sure.

[bots]

i was asked the question if I believed in the afterlife just after a close relative died. I don't think it is something that one can answer because it means so many things both spiritual and scientific. You are formed from your biological parents, so children by definition are a form of afterlife. Ask someone else and they could easily take another definition.

For those that are a bit older, how many times have people thought, what would my old Dad have thought of that, or acted in a particular circumstance. That is also a form of afterlife. A spiritual definition doesn't have to be the only viable option.

[Livia]

Agree with all that Bots. It's a massive question, isn't it.

[Elliot]

Nobody knows what happens for sure, but why put your eggs in the basket of a 5000 year old book that has been proven to be scientifically inaccurate?

[Redway]

Id rather listen to hundreds of years of peer reviewed scientific reasearch, research that has doubled life expentancy in the last 100 years and got us to the moon, than some book written 5000 years ago or an anecdote.

when people go into hospital they rely on science and human knowledge they dont get cured by bibles or praying, or a wise anecdote

Having scientific views is one thing but rudely telling someone who’s lost a spouse that she’ll never see him again just because you’re a conc. rationalist is low. That’s all I meant when I excluded hardline rationalists from this thread initially but that didn’t go down well with swathes of this forum.

[Redway]

There is no such thing as absolute fact, that much is true, the entire universe could (quite easily) be a dream or illusion.

However,

There being nonsuch thing as absolute certainty does not mean that all possibilities are assigned an equal share of probability. Which is something that I personally find a lot of specifically religious people (rather than openly spiritual people) fail to understand.

So whilst Christian heaven, reincarnation, or the idea that we all spring violently into another dimension via LT's butt hole are all theoretically possible, that doesn't make them probable, and in my opinion, any organised religious concept of afterlife is accurate is so highly improbable that it becomes functionally false.

The only viable (probable) answers are 1) there's simply nothing, or 2) it's something no one has thought of yet and that is likely beyond current human understanding completely.

Like I say we’re not all empiricists. Personal experience in the spiritual realm isn’t something you can shake no matter how much you try. Some people live outside of academia and feel things in a deeper realm.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Like I say we’re not all empiricists. Personal experience in the spiritual realm isn’t something you can shake no matter how much you try. Some people live outside of academia and feel things in a deeper realm.

they dont, their either have not taken the time to learn about why things happen or they use "supernaturality" to make them feel important in their peer group

there is no spiritual realm like their is no Narnia

it exists as fiction in the mind

[Redway]

they dont, their either have not taken the time to learn about why things happen or they use "supernaturality" to make them feel important in their peer group

there is no spiritual realm like their is no Narnia

it exists as fiction in the mind

Was it not you who told Livia with all your renowned sensitivity and tact that she’ll never see some of her loved ones again?

[Redway]

There’s a way to be a rationalist without being cold.

[Crimson Dynamo]

there’s a way to be a rationalist without being cold.

that would depend what you mean by cold

[Crimson Dynamo]

And btw redway i am not having a go at you , its a good and interesting thread

[Redway]

that would depend what you mean by cold

Any reason why you edited my name to lowercase text?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Any reason why you edited my name to lowercase text?

no

[Redway]

So why do it?