House of Lords approve LGBT inclusive relations and sex education

[Smithy]

The House of Lords has given its backing to new LGBT-inclusive guidance on compulsory relationships and sex education in English schools.

The upper chamber gave approval to new government guidance on relationships and sex education late on Wednesday (April 24), a month after the plan passed through the House of Commons by a vote of 538 to 21.

The new guidance is clear on the teaching about LGBT relationships expected in secondary schools and encouraged in primary while retaining the flexibility for head teachers to respond to the needs of their own schools.”

Gay peer Lord Scriven reveals he ‘considered suicide’ as a teenager

In a moving speech during the debate, gay Liberal Democrat peer Lord Scriven revealed he contemplated suicide as a teenager due to homophobia, and said he hopes the new LGBT-inclusive guidance helps others like him.

He said: “A lot has been spoken about the theory of relationships education, and people coming to terms with who they are and understanding the modern world.

“I was one of those 15 year olds who looked over the edge and contemplated suicide. Stories about the real world are far more important than theory.”


:clap1::clap1:

[TomC]

thank **** for that. can you see which mps opposed?

[TomC]

ahhh was hasty, i see the house of commons voted last month. i really wanted another reason to drag my Tory MP ugh

[Twosugars]

What about that Muslim school protest then?

[Oliver_W]

What about that Muslim school protest then?

Help them build a bridge to get over it?

[Liam-]

What about that Muslim school protest then?

They’ll all be fined and their kids suspended if they carry on I should hope

[arista]

What about that Muslim school protest then?


That Goes On.
Not Resolved.

[arista]

They’ll all be fined and their kids suspended if they carry on I should hope


No there is far to many of them
until it gets back on the news
nothing has changed

[Marsh.]

No there is far to many of them
until it gets back on the news
nothing has changed

There's far too many criminals in general, they all get punished though.

[Livia]

ahhh was hasty, i see the house of commons voted last month. i really wanted another reason to drag my Tory MP ugh

While you're dragging a Tory, remember that it was the Tories who brought in gay marriage, against the wishes of quite a lot of their members.

[Underscore]

While you're dragging a Tory, remember that it was the Tories who brought in gay marriage, against the wishes of quite a lot of their members.

It was actually a Lib Dem promise which the Tories are shamefully claiming.

Lynne Featherstone is widely credited as bringing in SSM

[Crimson Dynamo]

while retaining the flexibility for head teachers to respond to the needs of their own schools...

oh

[Livia]

It was actually a Lib Dem promise which the Tories are shamefully claiming.

Lynne Featherstone brought in SSM

A LibDem promise, don't make me laugh. The LibDems promised a lot of things... none of which they would have been able to get through had they not got into bed with the Conservative Party... an act that just about finished them off.

The Tories aren't "shamefully claiming" anything, they were in a coalition with the LibDems, and there's no way in this world or the next that the LibDems would ever have been in a position of power alone, to be able to push through a law. It was the Tory party who got it through, no amount of denial is going to change that. A large percentage of their old dyed-in-the-wool Tory members resigned their membership over it, and to give them their due, they pushed it through regardless.

[Livia]

while retaining the flexibility for head teachers to respond to the needs of their own schools...

oh

No head teacher should overrule this, but I'm guessing in places with a lot of Muslims, they're going to cave.

[Cherie]

while retaining the flexibility for head teachers to respond to the needs of their own schools...

oh



this covers the recent protest in Birmingham nicely I guess?

[Crimson Dynamo]

this covers the recent protest in Birmingham nicely I guess?

seems like a rather large and spacious loophole

[Underscore]

A LibDem promise, don't make me laugh. The LibDems promised a lot of things... none of which they would have been able to get through had they not got into bed with the Conservative Party... an act that just about finished them off.

The Tories aren't "shamefully claiming" anything, they were in a coalition with the LibDems, and there's no way in this world or the next that the LibDems would ever have been in a position of power alone, to be able to push through a law. It was the Tory party who got it through, no amount of denial is going to change that. A large percentage of their old dyed-in-the-wool Tory members resigned their membership over it, and to give them their due, they pushed it through regardless.

The Conservatives did not have it in their 2010 manifesto. The Lib Dems did. If the Lib Dems had not forced their hand, the Tories would not have held a vote because of their members.

Also 'Featherstone launched the consultation by the UK Government on introducing same-sex marriage and was the first politician to take part in the Out4Marriage campaign'

ALSO: Conservatives wouldn't have got it through alone, not by a long shot. 117 Tories voted FOR it, and 127 voted AGAINST it. The Conservative parliamentary party were AGAINST it. It wasn't the Tory party that got it through by a long shot. It was half the Tories and the vast majority of opposition MPs. So if anything, it was a cross party consensus... But facts are facts, there's no evidence there would've been a vote without the Lib Dems in coalition.

[Smithy]

While you're dragging a Tory, remember that it was the Tories who brought in gay marriage, against the wishes of quite a lot of their members.

Well... you said it :shrug:

[TomC]

While you're dragging a Tory, remember that it was the Tories who brought in gay marriage, against the wishes of quite a lot of their members.

Hmm funny that bc most of the MPs that opposed this legislation were Tories and DUP

[Cherie]

seems like a rather large and spacious loophole

If you are serious about inclusion there should be no wriggle room on it.

There are core subjects that every school has to adhere to, why not this

[Twosugars]

Well... you said it :shrug:

:laugh:

[Withano]

538 to 21? Who were the 21? DUP and tories I’m guessing?

[Denver]

Just get rid of sex ed its pointless

[Withano]

The Conservatives did not have it in their 2010 manifesto. The Lib Dems did. If the Lib Dems had not forced their hand, the Tories would not have held a vote because of their members.

Also 'Featherstone launched the consultation by the UK Government on introducing same-sex marriage and was the first politician to take part in the Out4Marriage campaign'

ALSO: Conservatives wouldn't have got it through alone, not by a long shot. 117 Tories voted FOR it, and 127 voted AGAINST it. The Conservative parliamentary party were AGAINST it. It wasn't the Tory party that got it through by a long shot. It was half the Tories and the vast majority of opposition MPs. So if anything, it was a cross party consensus... But facts are facts, there's no evidence there would've been a vote without the Lib Dems in coalition.


:clap1:

[Withano]

538 to 21? Who were the 21? DUP and tories I’m guessing?

12 tories
7 dups
1 labour
1 independent
(20 men, 1 woman)

In case anybody else was wondering

Gross *****

[Cherie]

Just get rid of sex ed its pointless

Teenage pregnancies are on the decrease, so I would say it is finally working

[Morgan.]

Sex ed in schools is needed. It's the fact it's going into later education. I found my class of 17-21 year olds the other week in sex ed and let me tell you it was just embarrassing.

[Tom4784]

Good, learning that LGBT people are no different to anyone else is vital and all schools should be made to teach inclusive lessons. I wouldn't have put in any loopholes to appease religious people, if they don't like it they can protest and get fined for it. Using religion to justify hatred should never be something that's protected.

As for the assertion by Adam that sex education is pointless.... Are you ****ing serious? Go look at the US stats of STI diagnosis rates and teen pregnancy numbers in places where sex education is optional, isn't taught at all or preaches abstinence and compare them to places that teach sex education properly as a compulsory class and see the difference.

Having no sex education puts people at risk, to make out that it's pointless is so incredibly ignorant on your part.

[Tom4784]

The Conservatives did not have it in their 2010 manifesto. The Lib Dems did. If the Lib Dems had not forced their hand, the Tories would not have held a vote because of their members.

Also 'Featherstone launched the consultation by the UK Government on introducing same-sex marriage and was the first politician to take part in the Out4Marriage campaign'

ALSO: Conservatives wouldn't have got it through alone, not by a long shot. 117 Tories voted FOR it, and 127 voted AGAINST it. The Conservative parliamentary party were AGAINST it. It wasn't the Tory party that got it through by a long shot. It was half the Tories and the vast majority of opposition MPs. So if anything, it was a cross party consensus... But facts are facts, there's no evidence there would've been a vote without the Lib Dems in coalition.

:clap1:

The Tories were never going to have the numbers in their own party to pass SSM and doing so would go against the wishes of the majority.

To claim that the Tories were responsible for SSM is a gross attempt to rewrite history in order to make the tories look good when they were actually the main opposition to it.

[Denver]

Good, learning that LGBT people are no different to anyone else is vital and all schools should be made to teach inclusive lessons. I wouldn't have put in any loopholes to appease religious people, if they don't like it they can protest and get fined for it. Using religion to justify hatred should never be something that's protected.

As for the assertion by Adam that sex education is pointless.... Are you ****ing serious? Go look at the US stats of STI diagnosis rates and teen pregnancy numbers in places where sex education is optional, isn't taught at all or preaches abstinence and compare them to places that teach sex education properly as a compulsory class and see the difference.

Having no sex education puts people at risk, to make out that it's pointless is so incredibly ignorant on your part.

It should be the parents job first and foremost, parents need to start teaching children certain things and stop leaving it to schools

[Tom4784]

It should be the parents job first and foremost, parents need to start teaching children certain things and stop leaving it to schools

Ridiculous.

You'd rather kids not go through a course which is tailor made to keep them safe so that their parents opt not to teach their kids to be safe or give them bad advice?

What is the logic behind your argument because I don't see any.

[Underscore]

Like I am glad the Tories agreed to hold a vote (not that they had a choice) but to claim it was them who passed it is just wrong

[Marsh.]

Just get rid of sex ed its pointless

:umm2:

[Marsh.]

It should be the parents job first and foremost, parents need to start teaching children certain things and stop leaving it to schools

Let's close the schools altogether and just have all parents homeschool ALL of their kids. You know.... just because.

[Oliver_W]

It should be the parents job first and foremost, parents need to start teaching children certain things and stop leaving it to schools

That would work REALLY well in places like Birmingham, Luton...

[AnnieK]

It should be the parents job first and foremost, parents need to start teaching children certain things and stop leaving it to schools

Whilst I agree that parent's should have a major input into this, school's also need to provide sex ed as there are many parent's who won't broach the subject with their kids, for many reasons. If kids are taught core aspects of sex ed at school those whose parent's won't talk to them at home will have at least some knowledge and information.

[chuff me dizzy]

It should be the parents job first and foremost, parents need to start teaching children certain things and stop leaving it to schools

Totally agree, its the parents place to decide what their child needs to learn about sex /lgbt education and at what age, if they are not happy with the schools plan, don't let their child go in to the lesson

[Withano]

Totally agree, its the parents place to decide what their child needs to learn about sex /lgbt education and at what age, if they are not happy with the schools plan, don't let their child go in to the lesson

Since when was its the parents place to decide school curriculum lol. Literally never.

[Tom4784]

Totally agree, its the parents place to decide what their child needs to learn about sex /lgbt education and at what age, if they are not happy with the schools plan, don't let their child go in to the lesson

What a selfish parent they would be to place their own biases above the needs of their own child. Ignorance is never better than knowledge.

[Wizard.]

We also need to teach secondary school students of the appropriate age about gay sex. I had a lot of unprotected sex stupidly because I wasn't even aware of HIV or anything because all they talked about were using condoms to stop pregnancy and chlamydia.

[Livia]

My Mum had a gay friend when I was little, she worked in the rag trade and he was a designer. I imagine that I always knew he was gay without really knowing what it meant. He had a boyfriend... and it seemed normal. I think the earlier we teach kids that love comes in all shapes and sizes the happier everyone will be.

[Twosugars]

Totally agree, its the parents place to decide what their child needs to learn about sex /lgbt education and at what age, if they are not happy with the schools plan, don't let their child go in to the lesson

a medieval attitude

sex is not some taboo, it is a biological function, there should be no opting out allowed

[chuff me dizzy]

My Mum had a gay friend when I was little, she worked in the rag trade and he was a designer. I imagine that I always knew he was gay without really knowing what it meant. He had a boyfriend... and it seemed normal. I think the earlier we teach kids that love comes in all shapes and sizes the happier everyone will be.

Very rare I disagree with you my lovely ........ but IMO children should keep their innocence for as long as possible, childhood goes by so quickly, let them be uncomplicated children for as long as you can

[Crimson Dynamo]

As long as its taught accurately using percentages like 2% of the population etc and explained that the HUGE majority of people are hetrosexual then its fine.

Explain that soaps chase ratings and dont care about accuracy etc

[Marsh.]

Very rare I disagree with you my lovely ........ but IMO children should keep their innocence for as long as possible, childhood goes by so quickly, let them be uncomplicated children for as long as you can

So why is teaching kids that families don't always consist of a mum and dad, but can have either two mums or two dads taking away their innocence?

The homophobia in that attitude is staggering.

[AnnieK]

My Mum had a gay friend when I was little, she worked in the rag trade and he was a designer. I imagine that I always knew he was gay without really knowing what it meant. He had a boyfriend... and it seemed normal. I think the earlier we teach kids that love comes in all shapes and sizes the happier everyone will be.

I agree Liv. I have gay friends who Matthew has always been around, he sees no difference between the marriage of my friends Paul and Chris as he does between my best friend Claire and Simon. He is 8 and says at his school kids already use "gay" as an insult. Changes in books where family settings are used could help to futher normalise.it for other kids who may not have gay couples in their lives.

I'm not saying at primary age they need to know about the physical act of sex between hetero or gay couples but they do need to know that love can come in many different forms. I honestly can't see what harm that would do to their childhood.

[Smithy]

Very rare I disagree with you my lovely ........ but IMO children should keep their innocence for as long as possible, childhood goes by so quickly, let them be uncomplicated children for as long as you can

So teaching kids that families can have two dads or two mums is robbing children of their innocence?

[Smithy]

So why is teaching kids that families don't always consist of a mum and dad, but can have either two mums or two dads taking away their innocence?

The homophobia in that attitude is staggering.

Oh Whitney pointing

[Marsh.]

Whitney points FEROCIOUSLY.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So why is teaching kids that families don't always consist of a mum and dad, but can have either two mums or two dads taking away their innocence?

The homophobia in that attitude is staggering.

who says chuff is only talking about gay sex ed? I am pretty sure she is talking about sex ed in general

your rush to take offence is staggering more like

[Marsh.]

who says chuff is only talking about gay sex ed? I am pretty sure she is talking about sex ed in general

your rush to take offence is staggering more like

The entire topic is about LGBT inclusion in already existing school syllabus.

Come back when you have something to add. :thumbs:

[Twosugars]

As long as its taught accurately using percentages like 2% of the population etc and explained that the HUGE majority of people are hetrosexual then its fine.

Explain that soaps chase ratings and dont care about accuracy etc

where did you get 2% from?
Links please to prove its validity

[Crimson Dynamo]

The entire topic is about LGBT inclusion in already existing school syllabus.

Come back when you have something to add. :thumbs:

and if you had paid attention rather than try to be contrary mary as per you would notice Chuff always talks about sex ed in general. but keep going off at chuff as she is an easy target

:thumbs:

[Crimson Dynamo]

where did you get 2% from?
Links please to prove its validity

i beleive today you told me, when i asked you a similar question about Hitler (yes you did bring Hitler into a debate) you said "go look it up"

I trust you will be a man of your word

[Twosugars]

i beleive today you told me, when i asked you a similar question about Hitler (yes you did bring Hitler into a debate) you said "go look it up"

I trust you will be a man of your word

I did bring up Hitler and I'm not apologizing for it. We were talking about extremists. Sue me.

I wondered about your sources bc I don't recognize that figure.
Alternative facts?

[AnnieK]

I did bring up Hitler and I'm not apologizing for it. We were talking about extremists. Sue me.

I wondered about your sources bc I don't recognize that figure.
Alternative facts?

To be fair, according to this report, LTs figure is correct

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2017

[Beso]

Why do the government always persecute the Muslim population? This is like rubbing a dogs nose on a pissy carpet.

[Marsh.]

So, do kids need to be assured of the statistics of ginger people? Black people? Green-eyed people in our population?

We don't want them frightened to death that everybody is like that do we? :worry: God forbid.

[Twosugars]

Why do the government always persecute the Muslim population? This is like rubbing a dogs nose on a pissy carpet.

And why are you on the side of religious bigotry against equality?

[Twosugars]

To be fair, according to this report, LTs figure is correct

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2017

Thank you Annie.
But this is self identification only.

[Beso]

And why are you on the side of religious bigotry against equality?

I'm not..I'm for equality against religion..from experiences of my friends I would say mostly the Catholic religion.

[AnnieK]

Thank you Annie.
But this is self identification only.

Yeah, I was going to say that but just thought I would add the link anyway

[Niamh.]

Very rare I disagree with you my lovely ........ but IMO children should keep their innocence for as long as possible, childhood goes by so quickly, let them be uncomplicated children for as long as you canHow is knowing that a man can love a woman or a man and woman can love a man or a woman stealing innocence? Surely making out that there's something wrong with that is the only thing that does that?

[Marsh.]

How is knowing that a man love a woman or a man and woman can love a man or a woman stealing innocence? Surely making out that there's something wrong with that is the only thing that do that?

Too right.

[Beso]

Imo that's an easy job for a parent.

[Marsh.]

Imo that's an easy job for a parent.

So it's fine for them to read books with references to mum and dad or male/female relationships but any reference to a gay relationship must be confined to parents?

That's making gay people taboo. They're not.

If that's your opinion on sex ed in general fair enough but the LGBT inclusion in education is far beyond that.

[Beso]

Just another case of humans putting themselves before the planet really..parents can take care of this pandering nonsense easily by themselves without a load of strangers force feeding it in one or 2 lessons....


The kids should be being taught about educating thier elderly parents on the harm they are doing to the planet beforethey tackle this if all rumours are to be believed...

Because I'm sorry, you know it, and I know it....if this planet goes paws up the first folk in the spaceship will 100 percent not be gay...unless putins driving.

[Marsh.]

It must be exhausting to try that hard to be edgy.

[Niamh.]

Just another case of humans putting themselves before the planet really..parents can take care of this pandering nonsense easily by themselves without a load of strangers force feeding it in one or 2 lessons....


The kids should be being taught about educating thier elderly parents on the harm they are doing to the planet beforethey tackle this if all rumours are to be believed...

Because I'm sorry, you know it, and I know it....if this planet goes paws up the first folk in the spaceship will 100 percent not be gay...unless putins driving.They're totally different issues though tbf.

[Beso]

It must be exhausting to try that hard to be edgy.

Took me 20 seconds if I'm honest.

[Marsh.]

Took me 20 seconds if I'm honest.

Oh well that's good.

[Beso]

They're totally different issues though tbf.

They are indeed, but when we are discussing the validation of the subject we can surely give a more pressing matter as an alternative for the learning subject..especially with all the latest news I've heard from central London on the news is to be believed...sort that first..with the generation it is seemingly going to effect then when that's sorted, sort this.

[Beso]

Oh well that's good.

It is, cause it's effortless...unlike the mammoth effort it will take to even make this pointless task worthwhile.

[Marsh.]

It is, cause it's effortless...unlike the mammoth effort it will take to even make this pointless task worthwhile.

What's pointless about adapting education to reflect the world we live in?

It isn't 1952 anymore.

[Niamh.]

They are indeed, but when we are discussing the validation of the subject we can surely give a more pressing matter as an alternative for the learning subject..especially with all the latest news I've heard from central London on the news is to be believed...sort that first..with the generation it is seemingly going to effect then when that's sorted, sort this.Whilst I don't disagree with you that it is something that really needs speaking about and us all doing much much more about, it doesn't have to be an either or thing surely?

[Marsh.]

They are indeed, but when we are discussing the validation of the subject we can surely give a more pressing matter as an alternative for the learning subject..especially with all the latest news I've heard from central London on the news is to be believed...sort that first..with the generation it is seemingly going to effect then when that's sorted, sort this.

Replacing one topic with another isn't improving anything.

Education on the environment comes under a different subject in school. There is room for both. School is not about picking one topic to teach kids about. What a waste of time that would be.

Talking about gay people as casually as heterosexual people are mentioned at school isn't harming anyone. Excluding it and making homosexuality taboo or something abnormal, however, is.

[Beso]

What's pointless about adapting education to reflect the world we live in?

It isn't 1952 anymore.

It's pointless cause there wont be a world left for them to live in in thier newly founded eutopian world due to a few books....why?

Because that subject was overlooked due to appeasement.

[Beso]

Whilst I don't disagree with you that it is something that really needs speaking about and us all doing much much more about, it doesn't have to be an either or thing surely?

I know that..I just gave my opinion on what I find more important but now because I've been replied to I feel I need to defend it..:joker:...


Which I will.

[Niamh.]

I know that..I just gave my opinion on what I find more important but now because I've been replied to I feel I need to defend it..:joker:...





Which I will.Welcome back [emoji23]

[Beso]

Replacing one topic with another isn't improving anything.

Education on the environment comes under a different subject in school. There is room for both. School is not about picking one topic to teach kids about. What a waste of time that would be.

Talking about gay people as casually as heterosexual people are mentioned at school isn't harming anyone. Excluding it and making homosexuality taboo or something abnormal, however, is.

Kids will just think they are reading about two pals that share a house unless they mention the gay side in the book...that then separates it from all the books that just show mum and dad with no references to thier sexuality. ..therefore I don't like the idea of strangers teaching kids of such a young age anything sexual..

[Beso]

Welcome back [emoji23]

Sure Jan.:notimpressed:

[Niamh.]

Sure Jan.:notimpressed:[emoji23]

[Niamh.]

Kids will just think they are reading about two pals that share a house unless they mention the gay side in the book...that then separates it from all the books that just show mum and dad with no references to thier sexuality. ..therefore I don't like the idea of strangers teaching kids of such a young age anything sexual..But kids don't think about mom's and dad's being sexual either

[Smithy]

Just another case of humans putting themselves before the planet really..parents can take care of this pandering nonsense easily by themselves without a load of strangers force feeding it in one or 2 lessons....


The kids should be being taught about educating thier elderly parents on the harm they are doing to the planet beforethey tackle this if all rumours are to be believed...

Because I'm sorry, you know it, and I know it....if this planet goes paws up the first folk in the spaceship will 100 percent not be gay...unless putins driving.

And they can’t learn about both because?

[Beso]

But kids don't think about mom's and dad's being sexual either

You ain't lived in a two up two down...because the noises kids hear will bring on the natural birds and bees discussion from parents.

[Niamh.]

You ain't lived in a two up two down.[emoji23]

[Beso]

And they can’t learn about both because?

Cause ones a waste of time if they don't concentrate on the other one first and foremost.

[Marsh.]

Kids will just think they are reading about two pals that share a house unless they mention the gay side in the book...that then separates it from all the books that just show mum and dad with no references to thier sexuality. ..therefore I don't like the idea of strangers teaching kids of such a young age anything sexual..

There isn't a reference to sex when discussing two dads or two mums either.

[Beso]

There isn't a reference to sex when discussing two dads or two mums either.

Won't they just see it as 2 mates living together then?.


Not sure I'm getting the point

[Marsh.]

Won't they just see it as 2 mates living together then?.


Not sure I'm getting the point

No. I think you're getting the point.

Deliberately pretending not to.

[Beso]

For all the excuses used to exclude LGBT from schools, this is the worst. :joker:

I don't want it excluded at all...I want it better educated than this pandering nonsense.

[Smithy]

Cause ones a waste of time if they don't concentrate on the other one first and foremost.

Kids are at school 30 hours a week, I’m sure there’s time

[Beso]

Kids are at school 30 hours a week, I’m sure there’s time

That probably equates to 3 stories a month....whooop****ingee...progress though...at least it's progress.:sad::sad::notimpressed:

[Marsh.]

I don't want it excluded at all...I want it better educated than this pandering nonsense.

How is it pandering?

Should all the characters drawn in their story books all be pale too? Is that pandering?

[Marsh.]

That probably equates to 3 stories a month....whooop****ingee...progress though...at least it's progress.:sad::sad::notimpressed:

Yeah. Progress is always better than backwards archaic nonsense.

[Beso]

How is it pandering?

Should all the characters drawn in their story books all be pale too? Is that pandering?

No, that according to Twosugars would be derailing the thread..

But I'm not him, it is pandering a bit Marsh. .it's like the new james bond movie. I honestly don't see a need for this...maybe educate the adults at home, but the kids well in my opinion the more you show a difference to what they are used to, the more they will point out that difference...That's not my opinion on me, just.my opinion on how I see life..


It will end up like the jehovas not going to assembly at school..nobody knew the difference until they had to sit in a room while the assembly took place...same will happen here when someone pipes up that that's what happens at home...then the bullying will start in some schools.

[Marsh.]

I honestly don't see a need for this...

Of course you don't.

[Beso]

Guess that's end of convo then...cheers guys..very, very memorable

[Oliver_W]

Why do the government always persecute the Muslim population? This is like rubbing a dogs nose on a pissy carpet.

The muslims aren't being "persecuted", if they weren't ****ting themselves at the thought of their kids being taught that gays are people and not things to be stone or thrown off buildings, this piece of legislature wouldn't have been raised.

[Beso]

The muslims aren't being "persecuted", if they weren't ****ting themselves at the thought of their kids being taught that gays are people and not things to be stone or thrown off buildings, this piece of legislature wouldn't have been raised.

I don't pray..but I do honestly pray that there isn't protest then counter protest about this.

[chuff me dizzy]

who says chuff is only talking about gay sex ed? I am pretty sure she is talking about sex ed in general

your rush to take offence is staggering more like

As per usual, that's why they never get a response from me

[Marsh.]

As per usual, that's why they never get a response from me

Stick to he topic and not members! :thumbs: If you can manage it!

You never respond because there is no defence of what you said.

[Tom4784]

i beleive today you told me, when i asked you a similar question about Hitler (yes you did bring Hitler into a debate) you said "go look it up"

I trust you will be a man of your word

What a hypocrite, you regularly demand evidence from people yet you won't uphold your own standards when asked the same thing.

If you're gonna demand a list of references whenever someone breathes then you better be able to back up your own words or be blown the **** up by your hypocrisy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What a hypocrite, you regularly demand evidence from people yet you won't uphold your own standards when asked the same thing.

If you're gonna demand a list of references whenever someone breathes then you better be able to back up your own words or be blown the **** up by your hypocrisy.

incorrect, i was just illustrating to TSII that if he tells members to google then members can tell him. its a valuable lesson in forum management

and i am sure he is big enough to speak for himself

[Tom4784]

Just another case of humans putting themselves before the planet really..parents can take care of this pandering nonsense easily by themselves without a load of strangers force feeding it in one or 2 lessons....


The kids should be being taught about educating thier elderly parents on the harm they are doing to the planet beforethey tackle this if all rumours are to be believed...

Because I'm sorry, you know it, and I know it....if this planet goes paws up the first folk in the spaceship will 100 percent not be gay...unless putins driving.

Bull**** attitude.

What the **** does eco issues have to do with lessons on diversity and sexuality? NOTHING, you're just trying to downplay helping kids become more accepting of diversity because it seems to bother you.

Do you think children only have one lesson a day or something? Because your argument makes no sense.

[Tom4784]

incorrect, i was just illustrating to TSII that if he tells members to google then members can tell him. its a valuable lesson in forum management

and i am sure he is big enough to speak for himself

No, you're being an utter hypocrite that demands references from people while offering up none of your own. I will be pointing out such hypocrisy every time you're guilty of it so you better pick a side and stick to it. You can either live up to the standards you try to impose on others or you can drop the whole 'I have no argument so I'm just gonna demand evidence for every post' thing you do.

Pick one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, you're being an utter hypocrite that demands references from people while offering up none of your own. I will be pointing out such hypocrisy every time you're guilty of it so you better pick a side and stick to it. You can either live up to the standards you try to impose on others or you can drop the whole 'I have no argument so I'm just gonna demand evidence for every post' thing you do.

Pick one.

im sorry but you are wrong and your anger is misplaced

[Tom4784]

im sorry but you are wrong and your anger is misplaced

I'm going to hold you to the standards you hold other people to, better hope you can live up to what you expect of others from now on.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm going to hold you to the standards you hold other people to, better hope you can live up to what you expect of others from now on.

I am flattered that you wish to copy my posting style and forensic approach to evidence and truth but tbh you are better off trying to develop your own style as a non-mod as i think that will be more successful? :)