Farage uses antisemitic tropes

[Twosugars]

oh dear

Nigel Farage is facing strong criticism from Jewish organisations and a series of other groups after it emerged he repeatedly took part in interviews with a far-right US talkshow host, during which the Brexit party leader openly discussed conspiracy theories, some of which have been linked to antisemitism.

In his various appearances on Jones’s show, Farage discussed themes commonly associated with an antisemitic conspiracy theory that Jewish financiers are behind a plot to replace nation states with a global government.

A spokesman for the Board of Deputies of British Jews said: “It is vital that our politicians distance themselves from conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists, including those who trade in antisemitic tropes. We would call on Nigel Farage to repudiate these ideas and to commit not to dignify oddball nasties like Alex Jones with his presence again.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/06/nigel-farage-under-fire-alleged-antisemitic-tropes-far-right-us-talkshow-alex-jones

[Liam-]

Well I for one am shocked to the core

[Tom4784]

Flies are attracted to **** so it's no wonder why he keeps surrounding himself with bigots.

[Twosugars]

if it quacks like a duck

[Crimson Dynamo]

He does not mention Jews once and did not mean jews at all


:joker:

The failing Guardian trolling its reader again

TS you have been had

[Livia]

If he practices his anti-Semitism and allows other people in his party to do the same, and then deny there's a problem with anti_Semitism... and then get in a tireless liberal to investigate, and when she says "nah, nothing to see here..." make her a Baroness... then he will be approaching the same league as Mr Corbyn. Farage, as odious as he is, isn't even a good amateur up against the Leader of the Labour Party.

[Matthew.]

Nigel Farage supporting bigotry oh there’s a surprise :idc:

[Livia]

Nigel Farage supporting bigotry oh there’s a surprise :idc:

I'd say that claim might be a little tenuous, given the evidence.

[Tom4784]

If he practices his anti-Semitism and allows other people in his party to do the same, and then deny there's a problem with anti_Semitism... and then get in a tireless liberal to investigate, and when she says "nah, nothing to see here..." make her a Baroness... then he will be approaching the same league as Mr Corbyn. Farage, as odious as he is, isn't even a good amateur up against the Leader of the Labour Party.

So you're willing to overlook anti-semitism here because you want to focus on another party....

[The Slim Reaper]

Spread enough **** and people with **** for brains will believe it.

He was on Alex Jones' show who is only known for his love of insane conspiracy theories. Remind me again what people will believe if you spread enough of it.

[arista]

He was on Alex Jones' show who is only known for his love of insane conspiracy theories. Remind me again what people will believe if you spread enough of it.


do you know the Date?

[The Slim Reaper]

do you know the Date?

Yes, it's the 7th of May, 2019. Do you need the time as well?

[Nicky91]

He does not mention Jews once and did not mean jews at all


:joker:

The failing Guardian trolling its reader again

TS you have been had

oh well

its also in a different article than the guardian

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/nigel-farage-criticised-over-antisemitic-tropes-on-far-right-us-talk-show/

[Beso]

He was on Alex Jones' show who is only known for his love of insane conspiracy theories. Remind me again what people will believe if you spread enough of it.

Alex jones is more known for being banned by twitter and fb imo.

[The Slim Reaper]

oh well

its also in a different article than the guardian

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/nigel-farage-criticised-over-antisemitic-tropes-on-far-right-us-talk-show/

Failing jewishnews.timesofisrael trolling it's reader again

Nicky, you've been had.

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh well

its also in a different article than the guardian

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/nigel-farage-criticised-over-antisemitic-tropes-on-far-right-us-talk-show/

its lifted from the Guardian article

[The Slim Reaper]

Alex jones is more known for being banned by twitter and fb imo.

No he isn't. He made his name in the world of conspiracy theories before FB and twitter were even around.

[Nicky91]

No he isn't. He made his name in the world of conspiracy theories before FB and twitter were even around.

true, he began his career in 1990's before FB, twitter were around

[Beso]

No he isn't. He made his name in the world of conspiracy theories before FB and twitter were even around.

Oh the big bad world of conspiracy theorist that the whole world is gripped by.:joker:


Get real..the only time he became relevant to about 85 percent of the world's population is when he got banned by twitter and fb.

[arista]

Yes, it's the 7th of May, 2019. Do you need the time as well?


No
But A.Jones
is banned on Facebook
so he is not that important now.

[Nicky91]

No
But A.Jones
is banned on Facebook
so he is not that important now.

oh because ur not on social media, you aren't important :shrug:

he became famous on the radio and later tv anyway, and not social media


discussing many controversies in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting_conspiracy_t heories

gun control debate with Piers Morgan

accused the us government of planning Oklahoma city bombing, the 9/11 attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories

about the Moon Landing also a conspiracy theory, about it being fake


so he made a name for himself with this on radio/tv and not social media

[The Slim Reaper]

Oh the big bad world of conspiracy theorist that the whole world is gripped by.:joker:


Get real..the only time he became relevant to about 85 percent of the world's population is when he got banned by twitter and fb.

That's just false, Parm. Don't project your personal ignorance on to "85% of the worlds population".

[arista]

oh because ur not on social media, you aren't important :shrug:

he became famous on the radio and later tv anyway, and not social media


discussing many controversies in the US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting_conspiracy_t heories

gun control debate with Piers Morgan

accused the us government of planning Oklahoma city bombing, the 9/11 attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing_conspiracy_theories

about the Moon Landing also a conspiracy theory, about it being fake


so he made a name for himself with this on radio/tv and not social media


Yes Alex Jones had a Emotional Break down
he said sorry.
He is no longer a power figure

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes Alex Jones had a Emotional Break down
he said sorry.
He is no longer a power figure

C'mon my guy, you're better than that.

[arista]

C'mon my guy, you're better than that.



No it was on CNN HD
he cracked up,



He is no longer a power figure , for sure

[The Slim Reaper]

No it was on CNN HD
he cracked up,



He is no longer a power figure , for sure

He started using "cracked up" when he was deposed for pushing the Sandy Hook conspiracy.

Timing seems quite convenient, especially when he still pushes other conspiracies.

[Nicky91]

Yes Alex Jones had a Emotional Break down
he said sorry.
He is no longer a power figure

the delusion is real, the farage superfans to save him :o


Alex Jones had quite a few interviews with Nigel, and most are on YouTube

[arista]

He started using "cracked up" when he was deposed for pushing the Sandy Hook conspiracy.

Timing seems quite convenient, especially when he still pushes other conspiracies.


Sure
he buggered up

[Crimson Dynamo]

I remember when the Guardian was a decent newspaper, now due to catastrophic falling sales it resorts to dog whistling its small band of readers and begging them for money


:(

[arista]

I remember when the Guardian was a decent newspaper, now due to catastrophic falling sales it resorts to dog whistling its small band of readers and begging them for money


:(


Yes I agree LT

[Cherie]

we need a purge of UK politics, get rid of all the bad apples

[Nicky91]

we need a purge of UK politics, get rid of all the bad apples

get rid of everyone, have a brand new start with some new fresh faces in british politics

[Twosugars]

I'd say that claim might be a little tenuous, given the evidence.

Tell that to the board of deputies of British Jews

[Crimson Dynamo]

exactly

Guardian is still a tabloid

you tell him Nicky

[Nicky91]

you tell him Nicky

you were bashing Guardian anyway but go off :bored:

[arista]

we need a purge of UK politics, get rid of all the bad apples



Not possible

[Beso]

That's just false, Parm. Don't project your personal ignorance on to "85% of the worlds population".

896,000

That's how many followers he had....a wet fart of an amount compared to famous people.....


So that's 896,000 of the world's population that know him well enough to follow him...

I stand by my prediction.:dance:

[bots]

Nigel Farage is facing strong criticism from Jewish organisations and a series of other groups after it emerged he repeatedly took part in interviews with a far-right US talkshow host, during which the Brexit party leader openly discussed conspiracy theories, some of which have been linked to antisemitism.

so it doesnt discuss context at all, which believe it or not, is pretty important.

I'm afraid that Farage has a long way to go before he praises terrorists, speaks at terrorist sponsored events and specifically supports anti-semitism in the way that Corbyn has been shown to do, time after time after time.

Farage is a third tier idiot politician. Corbyn is the leader of the opposition and a party that has millions of members. Is the difference not obvious?

[Crimson Dynamo]

so it doesnt discuss context at all, which believe it or not, is pretty important.

I'm afraid that Farage has a long way to go before he praises terrorists, speaks at terrorist sponsored events and specifically supports anti-semitism in the way that Corbyn has been shown to do, time after time after time.

Farage is a third tier idiot politician. Corbyn is the leader of the opposition and a party that has millions of members. Is the difference not obvious?

its very poor "journalism"

[Niamh.]

Deleted some posts in here, can people please stop with the personal comments and insults and stay ontopic. Thanks.

[The Slim Reaper]

896,000

That's how many followers he had....a wet fart of an amount compared to famous people.....


So that's 896,000 of the world's population that know him well enough to follow him...

I stand by my prediction.:dance:

That's cool. However, as an example, are the numbers of followers that anyone has, the same number as the people who know what they are or what they do? I don't follow Amir Khan, bur I know what he does for a living.

Standing by your opinion (not prediction) doesn't make it anymore correct than the first time you said it.

[Oliver_W]

oh well

its also in a different article than the guardian

https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/nigel-farage-criticised-over-antisemitic-tropes-on-far-right-us-talk-show/

There are no quotes from Farage about Jews in that article either.

Both are basically saying "this is what he said, but we swear he meant something else!!11"

[Crimson Dynamo]

there are no quotes from farage about jews in that article either.

Both are basically saying "this is what he said, but we swear he meant something else!!11"

as i said its poor journalism if one can even call it that

[Twosugars]

Let's remember that Nige has a record when it comes to antisemitic remarks.

Here's what The Times of Israel reported at the end of 2017

UK’s Farage says US Jews have disproportionate influence over politics
Right-wing ex-politician’s comments on ‘very powerful’ Israel lobby sparks outrage by anti-Semitism watchdog

https://www.timesofisrael.com/farage-says-us-jews-have-disproportionate-influence-over-politics/

[Twosugars]

some of his words quoted here:

Nigel Farage: Americans Should Worry About The Jews
Nigel Farage has, apparently, now exhausted every avenue of contrarianism, and so in desperation, following in the tradition of the far-right has, as many had previously anticipated, laid the blame upon 'The Jews'.

During a discussion on the involvement of Russia in US elections, he stated that "there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews".

“There are other very powerful lobbies in the United States of America, and the Jewish lobby, with its links with the Israeli government, is one of those strong voices,” Farage said on his London-based radio show.

A caller then asked Farage if American lawmakers are "in the pockets" of Israel. To this, Farage said, "In terms of money and influence yes they are a very powerful lobby."

Jewish civil rights groups immediately condemned his comments.

“Nigel Farage’s comments about the role of a powerful ‘Jewish lobby’ in America plays into deep-seated anti-Semitic tropes about supposed Jewish control of government,” Anti-Defamation League CEO Jonathan A. Greenblatt told Newsweek. “This is fuel for white supremacists who exploit and spread conspiracy theories about ‘evil, controlling Jews.’”

Conflating a Jewish and Israeli lobby is not only conspiratorial and false, said Greenblatt, but could “have the unintended consequence of encouraging anti-Semites and extremists to exploit them.”
https://eutoday.net/news/politics/2017/nigel-farage-americans-should-worry-about-the-jews

[Twosugars]

if it quacks like an antisemite it is an antisemite

[Beso]

Did ofcom look into this?

[Nicky91]

some of his words quoted here:


https://eutoday.net/news/politics/2017/nigel-farage-americans-should-worry-about-the-jews

no denying now, he did mention ''jews'' and in a anti semitic way

[Crimson Dynamo]

no denying now, he did mention ''jews'' and in a anti semitic way

Go on then explain how

[Twosugars]

Go on then explain how

"there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews"

that's how
now you explain why would he say that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

"there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews"

that's how
now you explain why would he say that?

I was addressing Nicky please refrain from patronising him in this manner, again.

[Oliver_W]

The Israeli government is pretty influential on the world stage though.

[Beso]

"there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews"

that's how
now you explain why would he say that?

Can you post the link word for word because the example you have given is the only one that is printed out of context...if that's the correct saying...like they just say he said it but don't follow up with the conversation he said it in....they do with the other things he said.

[Twosugars]

I provided the links I used, Parmnion, you can do it yourself, there's lots on it, it's not a secret.

[The Slim Reaper]

I was addressing Nicky please refrain from patronising him in this manner, again.

To be fair, LT, Josy said a couple of weeks ago that trying to shutdown debate and decide who could post was not on.

[Josy]

To be fair, LT, Josy said a couple of weeks ago that trying to shutdown debate and decide who could post was not on.Yes and it still stands.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes and I asked Nicky a question not TS. He can answer for himself, if anything TS is shutting him down

[Twosugars]

Yes and I asked Nicky a question not TS. He can answer for himself, if anything TS is shutting him down

I'd never shut Nicky down, he knows that.
It's you who picks on him all the time.
And now you pick on me like you did yesterday when you accused me of all sorts.

[Nicky91]

Yes and I asked Nicky a question not TS. He can answer for himself, if anything TS is shutting him down

:bored: a silly question which i didn't want to give a answer to myself


TS gave a good answer to you anyway i think

[Josy]

Yes and I asked Nicky a question not TS. He can answer for himself, if anything TS is shutting him downIt's a discussion LT, if someone else wants to answer a question then they are perfectly entitled to do so.

If people want private conversations then the main forum isnt the place.

I've removed at least 4 posts today telling people what they can or cant post in here, informing them not to reply to them or they are going on ignore, it's not on, it's time for all involved to either debate like adults or step away from the discussion.

[Josy]

I'd never shut Nicky down, he knows that.

It's you who picks on him all the time.

And now you pick on me like you did yesterday when you accused me of all sorts.You are all as guilty as each other, stop diverting blame.

I've watched it for days, bumped the thread about constant arguing and still it continues.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think my lack of answer was answer enough..

But I understand your point

[Twosugars]

for Parmnion:
this from Farage's wikipedia page, there are some link numbers you can access if you visit the page

"Jewish lobby" remarks

In October 2017, Farage asserted in an LBC radio appearance that the "Jewish lobby" in the United States was more concerning to him than Russian interference in American politics, saying: "There are other very powerful lobbies in the United States of America, and the Jewish lobby, with its links with the Israeli government, is one of those strong voices...There are about 6 million Jewish people living in America, so as a percentage it's quite small, but in terms of influence it's quite big."[171][172] Farage's remarks were condemned by the Campaign Against Antisemitism[172] and the Anti-Defamation League, which said that Farage's comment "plays into deep-seated anti-Semitic tropes" and was fuel for extremist conspiracy theories.[171]

[Josy]

LT is notorious for following Nicky and picking on him, in chat and in other threads.Like I said, stop diverting blame if you want to start calling people out, you yourself have been baiting for days.

Now if you could all try debate like adults I'll leave you to it.

[Twosugars]

Like I said, stop diverting blame if you want to start calling people out, you yourself have been baiting for days.

Now if you could all try debate like adults I'll leave you to it.

Moi? The very idea :bawling:

[Beso]

for Parmnion:
this from Farage's wikipedia page, there are some link numbers you can access if you visit the page

I'm not seeing what you quoted...

[Beso]

Like I said, stop diverting blame if you want to start calling people out, you yourself have been baiting for days.

Now if you could all try debate like adults I'll leave you to it.

I get infracted for baiting.:shrug:

[Twosugars]

I'm not seeing what you quoted...
why not? it's there in my post
anyway, go to Farage's wikipedia post and the whole incident is mentioned there under the heading "The Jewish Lobby" remarks

[Beso]

why not? it's there in my post
anyway, go to Farage's wikipedia post and the whole incident is mentioned there under the heading "The Jewish Lobby" remarks

I meant what you posted to lt as an example.

[user104658]

no denying now, he did mention ''jews'' and in a anti semitic way

Go on then explain how

"there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews"


:skull:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:skull:

It's fake news TS put your crossbones away

No link, fake news

[user104658]

It's fake news TS put your crossbones away

No link, fake news

tbf I didn't even look because my opinion of Farage couldn't really be any lower so it doesn't really matter what he did or didn't say. It was still worthy of a skull though.

[bots]

Trump ally and Brexit leader Nigel Farage says there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews.

Farage in a Monday interview singled out the so-called “Jewish lobby” as an overwhelming power in America during a discussion about Russia’s interference in U.S. politics.

“There are other very powerful lobbies in the United States of America, and the Jewish lobby, with its links with the Israeli government, is one of those strong voices,” Farage said on his London-based radio show.

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-brexit-698486

[Twosugars]

It's fake news TS put your crossbones away

No link, fake news

It all over the internet.
Inconvenient truth huh

[Crimson Dynamo]

It all over the internet.
Inconvenient truth huh

But not on tibb?

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-brexit-698486

In other words it's a lie

[bots]

In other words it's a lie

the video with nigel speaking doesn't seem to tie up with the text underneath

[Twosugars]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/us-jewish-lobby-nigel-farage-pow

Plus a clip on youtube

[Beso]

The headline Twosugars posted makes it sounds like Farage is on about all Jews. .when it's not.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Link doesn't work

[The Slim Reaper]

More insanity from this grifter

1126264558727901184

[Twosugars]

Link doesn't work

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/us-jewish-lobby-nigel-farage-power-anti-semitism-ukip-leader-a8031191.html

[Twosugars]

The headline Twosugars posted makes it sounds like Farage is on about all Jews. .when it's not.

Couldn't make it up :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
"there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews"


where is this quote from ?

i cant see it anywhere

[Livia]

While people are being deflected by this kind of tenuous nonsense, anti-Semitic attacks in the UK are at a record high for the third year in a row. Frankly I'm more angry about that than what someone might... or indeed, might not have said.

[bots]

While people are being deflected by this kind of tenuous nonsense, anti-Semitic attacks in the UK are at a record high for the third year in a row. Frankly I'm more angry about that than what someone might... or indeed, might not have said.

He did talk about the power of jewish groups in america, but the quote attributed to him, he didn't make. The video evidence is there for all to see and then they misquoted him underneath it

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-brexit-698486

[Crimson Dynamo]

While people are being deflected by this kind of tenuous nonsense, anti-Semitic attacks in the UK are at a record high for the third year in a row. Frankly I'm more angry about that than what someone might... or indeed, might not have said.

Its using anti- Semitism as a prop to have a go at someone you dont like, not because you care about Jewish people

that cant be right?

[Livia]

He did talk about the power of jewish groups in america, but the quote attributed to him, he didn't make. The video evidence is there for all to see and then they misquoted him underneath it

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-brexit-698486


I know. It's the hysterical and dogged manipulation of the story that gets me, sometimes from the same people who have defended Corbyn's anti-Semitism.

I mean, there is a powerful Jewish lobby in the US and you, I and most people already know that, it isn't news. Did someone think it was a secret, I wonder? The USA recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital for example... I'm sure Trump didn't wake up one day, you know what guys, I've had a great idea...

[Livia]

Its using anti- Semitism as a prop to have a go at someone you dont like, not because you care about Jewish people

that cant be right?

No, it's not right. But it is transparent.

[Beso]

Couldn't make it up :laugh:

Whoever wrote that piss false headline certainly did.

[Twosugars]

Farage even registered in the preface to the annual Antisemitic Discourse Report by CST for 2017

The controversy over antisemitism in the Labour Party endured throughout 2017, having come to national prominence in the previous year (it would also continue into 2018). But antisemitism in political life was not confined to ongoing Labour antisemitism row. People on different parts of the political spectrum were accused of talking about the “Jewish lobby” or “Israel lobby” in terms that evoked antisemitic conspiracy theories. Examples of this phenomenon involved both Nigel Farage and the Al Jazeera TV network in 2017.
https://cst.org.uk/news/blog/2018/11/29/antisemitic-discourse-report-2017
full text:
In October Nigel Farage, the former leader
of UKIP, discussed the United States’ “Jewish
lobby” with a caller on his LBC radio show in
terms that were condemned by the Board of
Deputies of British Jews as having “crossed
the line into well-known antisemitic tropes”.
The caller, “Ahmed” from Leyton in east
London, telephoned Farage’s show which
was discussing the question of whether US
President Donald Trump “is involved in some
form of Russian collusion”. Ahmed began by
asking “how come there’s such an issue with
Russia, Russian involvement, and there’s no
one really highlighting AIPAC [American Israel
Public Affairs Committee] and the Israeli lobby
and their involvement in American politics
and elections?” Farage agreed with Ahmed
in language that immediately conflated the
“Israeli lobby” with American Jews, saying:
“Well, the Israeli lobby, that’s a reasonable
point Ahmed because there are about six
million Jewish people living in America, so
as a percentage it’s quite small, but in terms
of influence it’s quite big.” Farage then said:
“I don’t think anybody is suggesting that the
Israeli government tried to affect the result
of the American elections,” and contrasted
this with allegations that Russia had tried to
influence the 2016 US Presidential Election in
favour of Trump.
Ahmed then brought the conversation back
to the subject of Israel, saying “with Israel,
they affect both Democrats and Republicans,
they’ve got them both in their pockets.” Again,
Farage agreed and changed the discussion
from “Israeli lobby” to “Jewish lobby”, saying:
“Well, in terms of money and influence, yep,
they are a very powerful lobby…Ahmed, new
caller from Leyton, I thank you; he makes the
point that there are other very powerful foreign
lobbies in the United States of America, and
the Jewish lobby, with its links with the Israeli
government, is one of those strong voices.”

[Crimson Dynamo]

ts can you state where you got that quote from

ignoring this is not going to make it go away?

[Beso]

Yes ts...where did you get that quote from!!!

[Twosugars]

I provided all the links for the quotes, go and argue with them :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

this thread is a mess, so you made it up?

you cant slander people like that TS

[Twosugars]

this thread is a mess, so you made it up?

you cant slander people like that TS


Your trolling is getting out of control.
The incident was reported all over the world, including Jewish outlets. It made the annual antisemitism report for Britain.
Deal with that, Trumpet.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Your trolling is getting out of control.
The incident was reported all over the world, including Jewish outlets. It made the annual antisemitism report for Britain.
Deal with that, Trumpet.

just provide the link

you provided the quote

[Twosugars]

just provide the link

you provided the quote

have you read the thread? I provided the links for everything, just go back and see

[Crimson Dynamo]

have you read the thread? I provided the links for everything, just go back and see

so where does that quote come from, what link?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Trump ally and Brexit leader Nigel Farage says there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews.


this was said by a person at Newsweek magazine



you said

Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
"there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews"

that's how
now you explain why would he say that?

here is the link: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-brexit-698486

-----------------------


he never said that, Newsweek did


its wrong

[Livia]

I'm looking at the report for Anti-Semitism in the UK for 2018, the most recent one I have... the word Farage does not appear in it.

[Cherie]

Have you voted Labour under Corbyn 2TS?

[Twosugars]

Have you voted Labour under Corbyn 2TS?

no, I'm usually a labour voter but just can't

[Beso]

And ofcom did not even look into this....


This is a fake news story, made up by someone.

[Cherie]

no, I'm usually a labour voter but just can't

fair dues...

I have just had some pamphlets come through with the post

Lib Dems and Brexit Party


Nothing from Change UK.... I think they are going to flop as they just aren't getting their message out

[Twosugars]

voting change uk btw

[Twosugars]

Trump ally and Brexit leader Nigel Farage says there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews.


this was said by a person at Newsweek magazine



you said

Originally Posted by Twosugars View Post
"there’s something Americans should worry about more than Russian meddling: Jews"

that's how
now you explain why would he say that?

here is the link: https://www.newsweek.com/trump-russia-jewish-farage-brexit-698486

-----------------------


he never said that, Newsweek did


its wrong

https://eutoday.net/news/politics/2017/nigel-farage-americans-should-worry-about-the-jews
that's where I quoted from
so you saying the first line of his quote is actually from the newsweek coverage? ok
well spotted and corrected

the fact remains the convo happened, there is a recording on youtube, news outlets also quote and include that
as you'll see from the antisemitism report his way of discussing the jewish lobby was the problem, as the board of deputies said: it “crossed
the line into well-known antisemitic tropes”. Which is the topic of this thread.

[Livia]

I'm looking at the report for Anti-Semitism in the UK for 2018, the most recent one I have... the word Farage does not appear in it.

Again.

[Twosugars]

I'm looking at the report for Anti-Semitism in the UK for 2018, the most recent one I have... the word Farage does not appear in it.
it happened in nov 2017
but his latest musings on antisemitic conspiracy theories on infowars should make it in 2019 if board of deputies statement is anything to go by

[Twosugars]

fair dues...

I have just had some pamphlets come through with the post

Lib Dems and Brexit Party


Nothing from Change UK.... I think they are going to flop as they just aren't getting their message out

they are a new outfit, maybe the money is tight and they target things sparingly? Idk

[Twosugars]

Again.

excuse me? are you actually using it as an argument he is not in there every year? geez
I'm not reponsible for when and how he strays into antisemitism
blame him he's not like a clockwork

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://eutoday.net/news/politics/2017/nigel-farage-americans-should-worry-about-the-jews
that's where I quoted from
so you saying the first line of his quote is actually from the newsweek coverage? ok
well spotted and corrected

the fact remains the convo happened, there is a recording on youtube, news outlets also quote and include that
as you'll see from the antisemitism report his way of discussing the jewish lobby was the problem, as the board of deputies said: it “crossed
the line into well-known antisemitic tropes”. Which is the topic of this thread.

yes you took a misquote from a dubious source that lifted it from a newsweek article

this is how lies spread

he never said it and all the whole thread is just speculation about what he might have meant


its nothing more than gossip

[Livia]

And while we're scrabbling round trying to find some kind of provenance for these comments... let's remember this, and the scale of this:

JTA — A Jewish advocacy group in London has accused the Labour Party of “endemic anti-Jewish behavior” and asked the government to investigate.

The report by the Labour Against Antisemitism group contains “15,000 screenshots taken from hundreds of Labour members ‘and officials’ promoting anti-Semitic views.” It was was submitted to the British Equality and Human Rights Commission and seeks a “full-scale antisemitism probe.”

Jewish groups have accused the party’s leftist leader, Jeremy Corbyn, of overseeing a massive surge in anti-Semitism within the party once considered the natural home of British Jewry.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-group-releases-report-with-15000-instances-of-labour-party-anti-semitism/

[Beso]

yes you took a misquote from a dubious source that lifted it from a newsweek article

this is how lies spread

he never said it and all the whole thread is just speculation about what he might have meant


its nothing more than gossip




Well said.

[Twosugars]

yes you took a misquote from a dubious source that lifted it from a newsweek article

this is how lies spread

he never said it and all the whole thread is just speculation about what he might have meant


its nothing more than gossip

it is something that was serious enough to feature in the antisemitism report and be commented on widely, including a warning from the board of deputies.
if you don't like that take it up with them.

[Livia]

Do we have a link to the antisemitism report? Which one is it? Because Jewish groups tend to produce their own.....

[Twosugars]

And while we're scrabbling round trying to find some kind of provenance for these comments... let's remember this, and the scale of this:

JTA — A Jewish advocacy group in London has accused the Labour Party of “endemic anti-Jewish behavior” and asked the government to investigate.

The report by the Labour Against Antisemitism group contains “15,000 screenshots taken from hundreds of Labour members ‘and officials’ promoting anti-Semitic views.” It was was submitted to the British Equality and Human Rights Commission and seeks a “full-scale antisemitism probe.”

Jewish groups have accused the party’s leftist leader, Jeremy Corbyn, of overseeing a massive surge in anti-Semitism within the party once considered the natural home of British Jewry.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-group-releases-report-with-15000-instances-of-labour-party-anti-semitism/

Yes.
This thread however is about Farage.

[Twosugars]

Do we have a link to the antisemitism report? Which one is it? Because Jewish groups tend to produce their own.....
It is produced by CST, a Jewish group. You'll find the link under the quote in my post.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes.
This thread however is about Farage.

clearly it isnt

[Twosugars]

The Jewish Chronicle on Farage's Infowars interviews


https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-accused-of-using-antisemitic-codewords-on-conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-show-1.483803
Nigel Farage accused of using antisemitic 'code words' on conspiracy theorist Alex Jones' show
The Brexit Party founder talked about 'globalists' and a 'new world order'

Nigel Farage has been accused of using antisemitic "code words" while appearing on the talkshow of American extremist conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.

Mr Farage appeared at least six times with Mr Jones - whose claims include that the Sandy Hook shooting is fake - and the pair used phrases and themes associated with the conspiracy theory that Jewish financiers are behind a plot to replace nation states with a global government.

During the appearances, between 2009 and last year, the former UKIP leader was found by The Guardian to have used the word “Globalists” and the phrase "New World Order", as well as suggesting members of the annual Bilderberg conference were plotting global domination.

As recently as April 2018, Mr Farage, who is now leading the Brexit Party in this month’s European elections, told Mr Jones the EU was “the prototype for the new world order”.

He also claimed “globalists have wanted to have some form of conflict with Russia as an argument for us all to surrender our national sovereignty and give it up to a higher global level”.

Antisemitism watchdog the Community Security Trust said Mr Farage's language were "familiar code words for antisemitic conspiracy theories".

A CST spokesperson called Mr Jones “a notorious conspiracy theorist who should be beyond the pale for any mainstream politician”.

“Furthermore, for Jones’s conspiracy-minded audience, Farage’s references to ‘globalists’ and ‘new world order’ will be taken as familiar code words for antisemitic conspiracy theories,” they added.

A spokesman for the Board of Deputies said: “It is vital that our politicians distance themselves from conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists, including those who trade in antisemitic tropes.

"We would call on Nigel Farage to repudiate these ideas and to commit not to dignify oddball nasties like Alex Jones with his presence again.”

Asked at Tuesday’s Brexit Party press conference about his appearances on Mr Jones’s Infowars how, Mr Farage said: "I've done a huge amount of global media, including Chinese state media.

"As far as the Infowars site is concerned I’ve done it every couple of years. I know Jones is accused of conspiracy theories & there may be some truth of that. I have never been a conspiracy theorist.”

On Sunday, it emerged two senior members of Mr Farage’s Brexit Party were still directors – despite supposedly resigning after offensive social media messages were exposed.

The Guardian reported ex-party leader Catherine Blaiklock, who resigned after calling Islam "incompatible with liberal democracy", and Michael McGough, who resigned after saying, among other things, that Ed and David Miliband and Peter Mandelson had “shallow UK roots”, were still listed as directors.

Ms Blaiklock also retweeted far-right messages, including a reference to "white genocie" by a former BNP activist.

The CST commented here so I'd expect this will be included in their 2019 antisemitism report.

[Nicky91]

voting change uk btw

uk needs some change definitely, an all new parliament, new fresh political parties

it would do the uk good to start over new

[Twosugars]

uk needs some change definitely, an all new parliament, new fresh political parties

it would do the uk good to start over new
Thanks Nicky, agreed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

uk needs some change definitely, an all new parliament, new fresh political parties

it would do the uk good to start over new

Yes and that is what my Brexit party leaflet said

"We need to change politics for good, lets put the principles of Trust, Honesty and Integrity at the heart of our Democracy"


Welcome aboard Nicky

:clap1:

[Nicky91]

Yes and that is what my Brexit party leaflet said

"We need to change politics for good, lets put the principles of Trust, Honesty and Integrity at the heart of our Democracy"


Welcome aboard Nicky

:clap1:

i was more talking about changes against brexit


and redemption for the UK, more effort from you guys towards the EU


no longer thinking like ur an empire (which you guys aren't for a long time anymore) but working together for a strong europe, where all of us can happily live in

[Tom4784]

If you're going to take a stance against anti-semitism (A worthy stance indeed) make sure you aren't picking and choosing what anti-semitism is okay depending on who is spouting it.

[Twosugars]

If you're going to take a stance against anti-semitism (A worthy stance indeed) make sure you aren't picking and choosing what anti-semitism is okay depending on who is spouting it.

Exactly. I mean, it is pure logic, otherwise your selective condemnation and selective approval has no ethical integrity or consistency.

[Oliver_W]

Nothing from Change UK.... I think they are going to flop as they just aren't getting their message out

I have no idea what they stand for, apart from remaining in the EU - which makes the name "Change" a bit of a misnomer.

I wonder if they know what they want.

[Livia]

When you boil it down to the nuts and bolts, Farage was accused of using "familiar code words" like "new world order" and "globalism".

So be warned people.... and strike those words from your lexicons.

[Twosugars]

When you boil it down to the nuts and bolts, Farage was accused of using "familiar code words" like "new world order" and "globalism".

So be warned people.... and strike those words from your lexicons.
.
Antisemitism watchdog the Community Security Trust said Mr Farage's language were "familiar code words for antisemitic conspiracy theories".

[Livia]

You have to dig really deep for this stuff, I think.

[bots]

Farage may be antisemitic, i don't really know, i think the stuff highlighted in this thread is tenuous at best. I think there are at least 100 different other reasons I would never consider voting for him or his latest party. Unlike others, I think any success that Farage will have will be extremely short term, if it even materialises at all.

So, while there may be a problem with antisemitism and him, I don't see it as a problem at the moment. The labour party is much more mainstream and a present danger. So that has to be the prime focus.

[Livia]

Farage may be antisemitic, i don't really know, i think the stuff highlighted in this thread is tenuous at best. I think there are at least 100 different other reasons I would never consider voting for him or his latest party. Unlike others, I think any success that Farage will have will be extremely short term, if it even materialises at all.

So, while there may be a problem with antisemitism and him, I don't see it as a problem at the moment. The labour party is much more mainstream and a present danger. So that has to be the prime focus.

I agree with all of this.

[Twosugars]

Farage may be antisemitic, i don't really know, i think the stuff highlighted in this thread is tenuous at best. I think there are at least 100 different other reasons I would never consider voting for him or his latest party. Unlike others, I think any success that Farage will have will be extremely short term, if it even materialises at all.

So, while there may be a problem with antisemitism and him, I don't see it as a problem at the moment. The labour party is much more mainstream and a present danger. So that has to be the prime focus.

It was a headline when the infowars stuff emerged last week so I reported it. Then discovered the older stuff.
He says a lot of crazy **** so it's time it was highlighted here.
A third rate career politician pretending to be a saviour but peddling ****. Sorry no can do.

[Twosugars]

I'm beginning to think his hatred of the eu is based on the same whacky ideas

[Tom4784]

You have to dig really deep for this stuff, I think.

So,, Anti-Semitism is only bad when it's associated with labour, got it. It's not anti-semitism if it comes from the right wing, I guess?:shrug:

[Twosugars]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/12/farage-criticised-for-using-antisemitic-themes-to-criticise-soros

Farage criticised for using antisemitic themes to criticise Soros
Guardian reveals Brexit party leader called financier ‘biggest danger to western world’
Nigel Farage’s Brexit party has described criticism by Jewish groups and MPs as “pathetic” after it emerged he repeatedly used themes associated with antisemitism to criticise the financier George Soros.

Following strong condemnation of Farage’s use of language, echoing other conspiracy theories popular with antisemites, during interviews with the far-right US website Infowars, a Guardian investigation has found he called Soros “the biggest danger to the entire western world”, among other comments.

The Community Security Trust, which monitors and counters antisemitic sentiment, said Soros was a favourite hate figure among far-right antisemites. “Instead of dismissing these concerns, Nigel Farage should ensure that his language does not help these ideas to spread in British politics,” the charity said.

Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs from the all-party parliamentary group against antisemitism also expressed concern. Nicky Morgan, the Conservative former education secretary, said it was “lazy and deliberately divisive dog-whistle politics to attack someone, however subtly, because of their gender, race or religion”.

In response, a Brexit party spokesman said the criticism was “an exceptionally feeble attempt to portray Nigel Farage as an antisemite”, calling it “lamentable” and “pathetic”.

Farage’s claims include that Soros wants to fundamentally reshape Europe’s racial makeup and to end the continent’s Christian culture. He also praised Hungary’s prime minister, Viktor Orbán, for having the “courage to stand up against him”.

Soros, a Jewish-born Hungarian-American, is accused by Farage, Orbán and others of using his wealth to spread liberal doctrines through the work of his Open Society Foundations, to which he has transferred billions of pounds of his wealth.

However, Jewish groups say portrayals of Soros as a scheming puppet-master – as frequently used by Orbán – regularly spill over into antisemitic conspiracy theories of Jewish bankers controlling governments.

The Guardian has found that in an interview with the US network Fox News in June last year, Farage said Soros “in many ways is the biggest danger to the entire western world”.

Farage said Soros sought “to undermine democracy and to fundamentally change the makeup, demographically, of the whole European continent”. The latter claim directly echoes conspiracy theories against Soros made by far-right groups such as Generation Identity.

In other interviews and speeches in 2017 and 2018, Farage:

Said Soros “wants to break down the fundamental values of our society and, in the case of Europe, he doesn’t want Europe to be based on Christianity”.
Claimed the EU was funded and influenced “by the Goldman Sachs, the JP Morgans, and a particular Hungarian called Mr Soros”.
Alleged the work of Soros’s foundation could amount to “the biggest level of political collusion in history”.
Argued criticising Soros should not be seen as antisemitic since Soros was in fact an atheist.
Theresa Villiers, the Conservative MP who is a vice-chair of the parliamentary antisemitism group, said: “Anyone who holds elected office should take particular care with the language they use about minority groups.

“Antisemitic conspiracy theories have been causing harm for centuries. Those who speculate about conspiracy theories therefore run the risk of energising antisemitism, particularly if they combine that with reference to individuals from the Jewish community.”

Labour’s Wes Streeting, also a vice-chair, said: “Nigel Farage doesn’t want to answer questions about his smears against George Soros, because they play into some of the worst antisemitic tropes.

“He is in the gutter, capitalising on a rising tide of antisemitic conspiracy theories to peddle his political message. It is no more respectable than the racism he left behind in Ukip.”

The Lib Dem MP Tom Brake, also one of the group’s vice-chairs, said: “The suggestion that Nigel Farage can be judge and jury over what constitutes antisemitism is abhorrent, not least because of the very dubious comments he has made in the past. Despite his attempts to recast himself at these elections, the mask has already slipped.”

[bots]

Soros is a threat to western governments because he exploits and manipulates currency.

He single handed ****ed the UK over when we had the failed alignment with the euro ..... he was responsible for that and it cost us billions. What I am trying to point out is that Soros deserves a lot of the criticism he gets and it has nothing to do with religion

[Oliver_W]

I only skimmed the text wall but all the criticism of Soros is fair game.

To say talking about him is anti-Semetic is a real reach.

[Twosugars]

Soros is a threat to western governments because he exploits and manipulates currency.

He single handed ****ed the UK over when we had the failed alignment with the euro ..... he was responsible for that and it cost us billions. What I am trying to point out is that Soros deserves a lot of the criticism he gets and it has nothing to do with religion

I only skimmed the text wall but all the criticism of Soros is fair game.

To say talking about him is anti-Semetic is a real reach.

Tell that to CST

[Oliver_W]

Tell that to CST

They didn't say "Farage has said anti-Semetic things."

They said "some of the things he's said have also been said by nastywasty meanies, and we don't want that on mainstream politics!!! 111"

Just because some undesirable people have talked about Soros, that doesn't mean any discussion or criticism of him should be off the table for fear of "legitimising nazis", especially when Soros is harmful.

[Twosugars]

They didn't say "Farage has said anti-Semetic things."

They said "some of the things he's said have also been said by nastywasty meanies, and we don't want that on mainstream politics!!! 111"

Just because some undesirable people have talked about Soros, that doesn't mean any discussion or criticism of him should be off the table for fear of "legitimising nazis", especially when Soros is harmful.

Semitic not semetic
They issued a warning to him

Soros is not the first or last to speculate in currencies. Its capitalism of which you're so fond. I take you've heard of stock exchange?
And he's plowing his money into charitable projects

[Oliver_W]

And he's plowing his money into charitable projects

Giving money to BLM and the caravan of illegals doesn't exactly go in his favour.

[Liam-]

Giving money to BLM and the caravan of illegals doesn't exactly go in his favour.

Why is it a bad thing that he donates money to BLM?

[Oliver_W]

Why is it a bad thing that he donates money to BLM?

Because they're just a bunch of violent reactionaries.

I'm sure he'd be able to find a more productive and less violent group which stands for racial equality to fund.

[The Slim Reaper]

Because they're just a bunch of violent reactionaries.

I'm sure he'd be able to find a more productive and less violent group which stands for racial equality to fund.

You clearly have zero understanding of what reactionary actually means.

[Liam-]

Because they're just a bunch of violent reactionaries.

I'm sure he'd be able to find a more productive and less violent group which stands for racial equality to fund.

That’s a very broad, inflammatory statement there

[Oliver_W]

That’s a very broad, inflammatory statement there

Oh noes.

[GiRTh]

Because they're just a bunch of violent reactionaries.

I'm sure he'd be able to find a more productive and less violent group which stands for racial equality to fund.What on earth are you on about? :conf:

[GiRTh]

Oh noes.This is the serious debate section. Do you have a point to make?

[Oliver_W]

What on earth are you on about? :conf:

Yeah I admit my use of the word "reactionary"was misplaced.

[Beso]

I'm beginning to think his hatred of the eu is based on the same whacky ideas

He will be enraged that they have laughed at us and mocked the British way all through this proscess, from beginning to where we are now, they have mocked us.

They will still be doing it as they guzzle thier millionth bottle of expensive plonk, clapping and sneering like ze Germans at us.


Thank **** for nigel, about time he came back.

[Livia]

He will be enraged that they have laughed at us and mocked the British way all through this proscess, from beginning to where we are now, they have mocked us.

They will still be doing it as they guzzle thier millionth bottle of expensive plonk, clapping and sneering like ze Germans at us.


Thank **** for nigel, about time he came back.

I'm no Nigel fan, but that's about the size of it.

[The Slim Reaper]

He will be enraged that they have laughed at us and mocked the British way all through this proscess, from beginning to where we are now, they have mocked us.

They will still be doing it as they guzzle thier millionth bottle of expensive plonk, clapping and sneering like ze Germans at us.


Thank **** for nigel, about time he came back.

But lots of us on this island have also mocked the fact they promised amazing deals the day after the referendum was decided. No one with 2 brain cells should have believed that leaving trade agreements with the EU would allow us to get better deals.

Instead of blaming Europeans, does there ever come a time when you hold your hands up and say that we were lied to, and you believed it? There is no shame in believing someone else's lies when you're invested in the premise, but continuing to pretend it was the truth all along is shameful.

[Beso]

But lots of us on this island have also mocked the fact they promised amazing deals the day after the referendum was decided. No one with 2 brain cells should have believed that leaving trade agreements with the EU would allow us to get better deals.

Instead of blaming Europeans, does there ever come a time when you hold your hands up and say that we were lied to, and you believed it? There is no shame in believing someone else's lies when you're invested in the premise, but continuing to pretend it was the truth all along is shameful.



When I say they have mocked us I don't mean Europeans as such I mean the negotiating team from the eu....something I have seen from them time and time again but yet to see from our side.

[Vicky.]

No Farage fan by any possible stretch, but, I think declaring him anti-semitic on this is a bit of a joke.

Mind, I also think Farage is a bit of a joke. With his 'back for the people who have been horridly mislead' trope. Yes, the public were mislead, but it was mainly his side that mislead them, and now noone knows what to do with the mess that was made, hence stalling til they know arse from tit, to be frank :laugh:

[Vicky.]

No one with 2 brain cells should have believed that leaving trade agreements with the EU would allow us to get better
deals.
A much better way of putting the muddled 'mislead' part of the post. Struggled articulating that bit :laugh:

[The Slim Reaper]

When I say they have mocked us I don't mean Europeans as such I mean the negotiating team from the eu....something I have seen from them time and time again but yet to see from our side.

Yeah, and I still say we were absolutely worthy of being mocked. We thought we'd found a miraculous loophole that could allow us to leave the amazing deal we already had in place, for an even better deal minus the responsibility. The world doesn't work like that, I'm afraid.

The fact your anger is pointed at those who laughed when you told them you wanted a free unicorn, rather than the people who convinced you unicorns exist in the first place, says everything about the lies and BS you still want to buy.

[Beso]

Yeah, and I still say we were absolutely worthy of being mocked. We thought we'd found a miraculous loophole that could allow us to leave the amazing deal we already had in place, for an even better deal minus the responsibility. The world doesn't work like that, I'm afraid.

The fact your anger is pointed at those who laughed when you told them you wanted a free unicorn, rather than the people who convinced you unicorns exist in the first place, says everything about the lies and BS you still want to buy.

I told them nothing so Im not sure why you decided to be so personal with your last 2 replies.:shrug:...par for the course I guess.


All I'm doing is commenting on the attitude of the eu negotiators towards the uk and it's citizens during this process.

The uk needs people like Farage atm to stand up to these self indulgent morons.

[bots]

I told them nothing so Im not sure why you decided to be so personal with your last 2 replies.:shrug:...par for the course I guess.


All I'm doing is commenting on the attitude of the eu negotiators towards the uk and it's citizens during this process.

The uk needs people like Farage atm to stand up to these self indulgent morons.

all farage has done so far is the equivalent of if you don't do as i say i will knife the country in the head. So its no real wonder they are bemused.

[The Slim Reaper]

I told them nothing so Im not sure why you decided to be so personal with your last 2 replies.:shrug:...par for the course I guess.


All I'm doing is commenting on the attitude of the eu negotiators towards the uk and it's citizens during this process.

The uk needs people like Farage atm to stand up to these self indulgent morons.

It's not personal parm, I'm using "you" as in your side of the argument, not to hurt your ickle feelings. Maybe I just lack empathy like your goodself :shrug:

All I'm doing is showing you why we were worthy of being laughed at, but you refuse to look at that, and would rather still moan about being laughed at.

The EU negotiators have actually been willing and tolerant to deal with us, they just refuse to bend over and let us take them dry. I'm sorry that makes you angry.

[Beso]

It's not personal parm, I'm using "you" as in your side of the argument, not to hurt your ickle feelings. Maybe I just lack empathy like your goodself :shrug:

All I'm doing is showing you why we were worthy of being laughed at, but you refuse to look at that, and would rather still moan about being laughed at.

The EU negotiators have actually been willing and tolerant to deal with us, they just refuse to bend over and let us take them dry. I'm sorry that makes you angry.

It doesn't make angry so there is no need to be as patronising with your ickle comments etc.

You need to watch the storyville documentary made by the eu side if you believe they have been tolerant with us...cause that is way way off the mark as they have been anything but.

[Vicky.]

The fact your anger is pointed at those who laughed when you told them you wanted a free unicorn, rather than the people who convinced you unicorns exist in the first place, says everything about the lies and BS you still want to buy.

Quite (no meaning at parm, but generally speaking)

I still have no ****ing clue how on earth people thought we could just ditch the bad parts of being in the EU, and keep the good bits, maybe make the good bits even better! Why the hell would the EU agree to that?! Its just..insane, but so many were convinced that it could happen and some still seem convinced, while others just rage about how 'we' voted leave so just crash out with no deal at all and **** the consequences (despite every leaver I know voting leave whilst thinking we would get a trade deal..and saying they would change that if its no deal because we were basically promised some sort of deal:S ). It is just a huge steaming pile of crap really.

The only way I see out of it is another vote, allowing those who did vote under false pretences (and lies were told on both sides, just seemingly more of them on the leave side) to have their say. As so many leavers voted thinking a deal would be done, then surely, a vote of 'leave with no deal' or 'dont leave' makes sense, and theres good reason for it. Its not doing it because 'remoaners' dont like the result (though it makes me laugh when Farage goes on about that, given just before the votes were even confirmed he was already going on about how he would push for a second vote..obviously assuming stay would win :D ) its actually so people are actually ****ing informed this time. I have a feeling, that those who wish to plunge us into bigger recession than we have known before and such (ah yes, project fear..ignore the experts) will be in the minority tbh.

I was dead against another vote for ages too. But it really does seem to me to be the only way. EU won't keep granting us extensions, and leaving us in permanent limbo is stupid.

[Livia]

I find it par for the course that remainers think the EU is right to mock us, and leavers are angry about it.

[bots]

I find it par for the course that remainers think the EU is right to mock us, and leavers are angry about it.

do you think anyone takes our parliament seriously now? We are a laughing stock across the world, and the EU didn't do that to us, we did it all by ourselves

[Vicky.]

Of course the Eu is right to mock us. Well, to mock those of us who believed that basically, we could lose all the bad bits and keep the good, and possibly even get the good bits better. It really is unbelievable to me that anyone thought that. In what world would that ever happen..its wishful thinking, and I wish they were right, but obviously not :S

[Livia]

do you think anyone takes our parliament seriously now? We are a laughing stock across the world, and the EU didn't do that to us, we did it all by ourselves

No, I think we look ridiculous after the continued mishandling, month after month... but the EU were never going to give us an easy time. And their behaviour has been questionable at best. You know how much we pay to the EU and what proportion we get back. Of course they were always going to make it difficult.

[The Slim Reaper]

do you think anyone takes our parliament seriously now? We are a laughing stock across the world, and the EU didn't do that to us, we did it all by ourselves

Such is the ignorant delusion, they still believe the EU should bend to our will.

[Livia]

Of course the Eu is right to mock us. Well, to mock those of us who believed that basically, we could lose all the bad bits and keep the good, and possibly even get the good bits better. It really is unbelievable to me that anyone thought that. In what world would that ever happen..its wishful thinking, and I wish they were right, but obviously not :S

Well, they're mocking us now and they've mocked us from the start. The steel industry in this country is about to collapse, and the EU has to take responsibility for that. But they won't.

Who do you think thought we would keep all the good stuff and lose all the bad stuff. We have to get past this idea that everyone who voted to leave was misinformed and gullible, and those who voted remain... and lost... had it right all the time. The whole of Parliament has mocked everyone who voted to leave. That's worse than the EU mocking us.

[Livia]

Such is the ignorant delusion, they still believe the EU should bend to our will.

Yeah, I think that was meant for me.

No one here is ignorant, not even you.

[Vicky.]

Well, they're mocking us now and they've mocked us from the start. The steel industry in this country is about to collapse, and the EU has to take responsibility for that. But they won't.

Who do you think thought we would keep all the good stuff and lose all the bad stuff. We have to get past this idea that everyone who voted to leave was misinformed and gullible, and those who voted remain... and lost... had it right all the time. The whole of Parliament has mocked everyone who voted to leave. That's worse than the EU mocking us.

Erm I don't think that and have never thought that. I think most were misinformed but it IS mainly leavers I know who regret their vote as they were convinced we would have trade deals and such as..well thats what they were told D: Hell, right after the results leavers were already fighting among themselves for 'soft' or 'hard' brexit, so they were clearly voting on two seperate things in reality...soft brexit..from what I have seen appears to be wanting the good without the bad. Trade deals with no immigration, that kind of thing.

[Livia]

Erm I don't think that and have never thought that. I think most were misinformed but it IS mainly leavers I know who regret their vote as they were convinced we would have trade deals and such as..well thats what they were told D: Hell, right after the results leavers were already fighting among themselves for 'soft' or 'hard' brexit, so they were clearly voting on two seperate things in reality...soft brexit..from what I have seen appears to be wanting the good without the bad. Trade deals with no immigration, that kind of thing.

It's all I hear, Vicky... especially on here... how gullible was the electorate who voted to leave, they believed all that money would go to the NHS every year. No one believed that, Not even Boris, I suspect.

I voted leave because I want us to take control of our own borders not be told who we can and can't let in, and so that our courts could not be overruled by foreign judges. The reason we have not left yet, in my view, is twofold... Mrs May is intransigent and would take no advice from anyone, pushing her lame duck deal through time after tie to be voted down. And much of Parliament, including some Tory MPs, would have overruled anything that was produced because the majority of them are remainers, despite what their constituents voted.

If we had no deal on the date we were leaving, we should have just left with no deal. We buy more German cars than the Germans, and look at all the stuff we import from the EU. No one thinks those sellers wouldn't want to sell to us, so it's in the EU's best interest to broker a decent deal for everyone... but no, they can't make it look too easy because if they did, other countries would follow.

One thing I'm certain of... it's a ****ing mess.

[The Slim Reaper]

Erm I don't think that and have never thought that. I think most were misinformed but it IS mainly leavers I know who regret their vote as they were convinced we would have trade deals and such as..well thats what they were told D: Hell, right after the results leavers were already fighting among themselves for 'soft' or 'hard' brexit, so they were clearly voting on two seperate things in reality...soft brexit..from what I have seen appears to be wanting the good without the bad. Trade deals with no immigration, that kind of thing.

It just get's better. By saying they never believed this or never believed that, then they just reveal themselves as the most easily duped and ignorant voting bloc in the history of the country.

They believed nothing, but when you point out it must have been for xenophobic anti-immigration reasons they have a fit about that too.

They are basically saying that they voted for something for absolutely no reason, without any understanding of why it would be a benefit but want you to take them seriously. I mean c'mon, this is just primary school levels of wish fulfillment.

[Vicky.]

It's all I hear, Vicky... especially on here... how gullible was the electorate who voted to leave, they believed all that money would go to the NHS every year. No one believed that, Not even Boris, I suspect.


Of course Boris knew it was bollocks. It was his bollocks in the first place wasn't it?! (what a lovely thought :umm2: ) Unfortunately, a lot of people were duped by this, and other lies like it. Which was what the lies were meant to do. The lies were not one way, fairly sure I saw a campaign round here with placards stating that if we vote leave, noone in the country would get a pension...

It was all bollocks. Just bollocks on a stick. Stupid idea to have a vote and then basically just have a huge campaign of misinformation.

And now, we are ****ed. People in both camps are pissed off, the government look weak as **** and May is a laughing stock (though I do kind of feel for her..poisned chalice and all that.). I still don't get WHY she was so set on her ****ing deal. Putting the exact same one before them over and over is not going to convince anyone, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity ffs. THEN, trying to get it through by promising to **** off afterwards, knowing how many want shot of her so trying to basically bribe them to vote for the deal, like she bribed the DUP with random money pulled from her arse (when we are apparently broke) just so she could stay in power after her ridiculous decision to call a snap election thinking she would wipe the floor with the equally useless Corbyn! How desperate..would love to know why she was so attached to that deal mind

Honestly, at this stage I struggle to even be coherent when debating this topic. Its gone on way too long, much longer than it should and..well whats left to say really. I just end up swearing a lot :laugh:

[Vicky.]

It just get's better. By saying they never believed this or never believed that, then they just reveal themselves as the most easily duped and ignorant voting bloc in the history of the country.

They believed nothing, but when you point out it must have been for xenophobic anti-immigration reasons they have a fit about that too.

They are basically saying that they voted for something for absolutely no reason, without any understanding of why it would be a benefit but want you to take them seriously. I mean c'mon, this is just primary school levels of wish fulfillment.

I don't think thats fair tbh. Some voted for reasons other than falling for the lies or being xenophobic.

Though I have to say, in my 'friendship/family' group..it was mainly either falling for the lies or it being about immigration. Along with a fair few who voted to leave while believing pie in the sky 'no immigration or fees, but keep trade deals' stuff whcih was clearly ridiculous.

I mean, I don't pretend I even knew what I was voting for, should have looked up more at the time but was kind of put off the whole thing by all the obvious bull**** that people were falling for, along with the fact that the vote itself seemed to make some people think that it was now fine to be openly racist (again, not calling all leavers racist, but its undeniable that many took it as license to be..loud with ignorant views) It all just made me turn off. Also, again I feel the need to point out that obviously not everyone who had immigration as part of the reason for their vote was being xenophobic or whatever, some were genuine. But a fair few..were basically just like 'get the ****ers out!!!!' (which again was not going to bloody happen either..)

So I voted on better the devil you know really. Rather than being totally informed. I didn't even know on the morning I voted which way I was going to go! But decided that the leave side was just telling more lies, and I would rather no change at all than..possibly totally ****ing the country. Of course it could have really benefitted us, still a slim possibility that it might. But in hindsight, I am fairly sure I made the right call.

Just get so frustrated with it all. And how some people on my life have changed for the worse. Or not changed really, just..showed a hidden side of themselves. And how it seems to be denied that this happens.

[Tom4784]

I find it par for the course that remainers think the EU is right to mock us, and leavers are angry about it.

Leavers ARE angry, 'Grrr Remainers! Grrr Theresa May! Grrr the EU! Grrr Diane Abbot!' There's no self reflection there, just blaming everyone but themselves for buying the snake oil.

We are a laughing stock and we deserve to be, the people voted for something they didn't understand and were lied to about it and told to disregard experts who said things they didn't like and now brexit isn't likely to ever happen because the leavers want some idealised idea of Brexit that's never going to happen. We aren't going to magically be better off with no deal and we aren't likely to get a better deal than the one that was on the table.

[bots]

if you strip leave down to it's basics, it was take control of EU immigration and bring back control to our own parliament, freedom to create our own trade deals .... there really is nothing wrong with those goals. They are clear and easily understood, and that's basically what people voted leave for. Everything else was and is noise. Obfuscation is being applied from both sides of the argument. That's our MP's fault, no-one elses. They are trying to make something that is actually very simple seem very complicated. It's not complicated and it never has been. Parliament could easily have voted to approve brexit and we would be several months into the transition by now. But they blocked it because they don't want it.

I don't see any resolution coming other than a hard brexit or a cancel it. That should be the basis of any referendum. I didn't want another ref, but i think it's inevitable now.

[Livia]

if you strip leave down to it's basics, it was take control of EU immigration and bring back control to our own parliament, freedom to create our own trade deals .... there really is nothing wrong with those goals. They are clear and easily understood, and that's basically what people voted leave for. Everything else was and is noise. Obfuscation is being applied from both sides of the argument. That's our MP's fault, no-one elses. They are trying to make something that is actually very simple seem very complicated. It's not complicated and it never has been. Parliament could easily have voted to approve brexit and we would be several months into the transition by now. But they blocked it because they don't want it.

I don't see any resolution coming other than a hard brexit or a cancel it. That should be the basis of any referendum. I didn't want another ref, but i think it's inevitable now.

I agree with all of that, Bots.

[Vicky.]

if you strip leave down to it's basics, it was take control of EU immigration and bring back control to our own parliament, freedom to create our own trade deals .... there really is nothing wrong with those goals.

Agree completely with this. Nothing wrong with those goals at all.

They are clear and easily understood, and that's basically what people voted leave for.

Disagree with this. Of course I don't know everyone in the country of even my area..but in my experience no way was the majority leave vote sensible like the way you put it. It really was 'immigrants **** off back to where you are from, close the borders fullstop', 'we spend so much on the EU when it could be going to the NHS and such' (as IF anything potentially saved would go towards something worthwhile. More likely another bribe to the DUP next time theres an election...), 'the news said we could leave and not pay the fees and control immigration whilst also retaining our current trade deals and maybe even making them better'..along with a couple of people thinking it through and basically coming to the conclusion you made above, and voting accordingly and being able to actually articulate their views rather than 'rargh, immigrants'.

Could just be my area, could just be the people I know (and listen to when out, am one of those annoying eavesdroppers :D ) but yeah. Not my experience at all. Its so depressing setting it out like that..

[The Slim Reaper]

I don't think thats fair tbh. Some voted for reasons other than falling for the lies or being xenophobic.

Though I have to say, in my 'friendship/family' group..it was mainly either falling for the lies or it being about immigration. Along with a fair few who voted to leave while believing pie in the sky 'no immigration or fees, but keep trade deals' stuff whcih was clearly ridiculous.

I mean, I don't pretend I even knew what I was voting for, should have looked up more at the time but was kind of put off the whole thing by all the obvious bull**** that people were falling for, along with the fact that the vote itself seemed to make some people think that it was now fine to be openly racist (again, not calling all leavers racist, but its undeniable that many took it as license to be..loud with ignorant views) It all just made me turn off. Also, again I feel the need to point out that obviously not everyone who had immigration as part of the reason for their vote was being xenophobic or whatever, some were genuine. But a fair few..were basically just like 'get the ****ers out!!!!' (which again was not going to bloody happen either..)

So I voted on better the devil you know really. Rather than being totally informed. I didn't even know on the morning I voted which way I was going to go! But decided that the leave side was just telling more lies, and I would rather no change at all than..possibly totally ****ing the country. Of course it could have really benefitted us, still a slim possibility that it might. But in hindsight, I am fairly sure I made the right call.

Just get so frustrated with it all. And how some people on my life have changed for the worse. Or not changed really, just..showed a hidden side of themselves. And how it seems to be denied that this happens.

That's completely fair. It's far friendlier than I'm capable of being around this issue these days. I do disagree with you, and you sort of disagree with yourself in the 2nd paragraph, but you have the self awareness to acknowledge it :laugh:

You're part of the electorate, it's not your job to understand everything, it's the job of politicians trying to earn your vote to explain what is important and why. Here we have though a group of people that won't admit to believing the lies (your friends/family seem like an exception), won't admit to believing anything, won't admit to being xenophobic, and yet they still want to be taken seriously and not mocked.

And to be clear, I'm not mocking people who didn't know everything about everything to do with the referendum (otherwise I'd be attacking myself), i'm mocking those people that still pretend there is some lofty goal to be achieved with this whole mess, while trying to intellectualise themselves into a defence about not believing anything.

Your position and vote actually makes the most sense in the lead up to the referendum, but we're way past the point of making excuses for the willfully uninformed.

[Vicky.]

That's completely fair. It's far friendlier than I'm capable of being around this issue these days. I do disagree with you, and you sort of disagree with yourself in the 2nd paragraph, but you have the self awareness to acknowledge it :laugh:

:D

I do agree with most of what you say. I disagree with the way its made out to be pretty much all leave voters are either duped or racist. Not all. Many, but not all.

I know its ****ing annoying when people get all 'not all X are like that!' in response to stuff, as obviously noone means literally every person. But..I feel the need to answer it as if you actually meant every single one, as thats how people who voted leave read it. If that makes sense at all? Getting a bit garbled I think!

Here we have though a group of people that won't admit to believing the lies (your friends/family seem like an exception), won't admit to believing anything, won't admit to being xenophobic, and yet they still want to be taken seriously and not mocked.

I do agree with this on a group level. Its quite bizarre.

(The only ones I know who do admit to believing the lies, are the ones who are very vocal about how they would vote otherwise knowing what they know now)

[Oliver_W]

Disagree with this. Of course I don't know everyone in the country of even my area..but in my experience no way was the majority leave vote sensible like the way you put it. It really was 'immigrants **** off back to where you are from, close the borders fullstop', 'we spend so much on the EU when it could be going to the NHS and such' (as IF anything potentially saved would go towards something worthwhile.

I think this is probably true; I also think if our government made some sort of deal with the EU to limit immigration, Brexit wouldn't have happened.

[Beso]

Leavers ARE angry, 'Grrr Remainers! Grrr Theresa May! Grrr the EU! Grrr Diane Abbot!' There's no self reflection there, just blaming everyone but themselves for buying the snake oil.

We are a laughing stock and we deserve to be, the people voted for something they didn't understand and were lied to about it and told to disregard experts who said things they didn't like and now brexit isn't likely to ever happen because the leavers want some idealised idea of Brexit that's never going to happen. We aren't going to magically be better off with no deal and we aren't likely to get a better deal than the one that was on the table.




Sorry to pull you up.on something dezzy, and I can't really be bothered to reply back.

But I, as a leaver....well the last people I'm grrr ring at is remainers..if the vote was to stay in the eu I would still want to leave so would probably flounce about pretending my opinion to still leave was relevant.


So I would applaud these people, not grrr grrr at them, as you so eliquently put it.

[Beso]

if you strip leave down to it's basics, it was take control of EU immigration and bring back control to our own parliament, freedom to create our own trade deals .... there really is nothing wrong with those goals. They are clear and easily understood, and that's basically what people voted leave for. Everything else was and is noise. Obfuscation is being applied from both sides of the argument. That's our MP's fault, no-one elses. They are trying to make something that is actually very simple seem very complicated. It's not complicated and it never has been. Parliament could easily have voted to approve brexit and we would be several months into the transition by now. But they blocked it because they don't want it.

I don't see any resolution coming other than a hard brexit or a cancel it. That should be the basis of any referendum. I didn't want another ref, but i think it's inevitable now.

I agree, but I believe it's the eu at fault and not theressa may.