Gay Women couple get beaten by thugs on a bus in Camden

[arista]

1136934326522863617


https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/north/camden/gay-couple-beaten-refusing-kiss-thugs-camden/


Shocking.

[Niamh.]

Scarily similar to a conversation me and Vicky had yesterday about lesbians and mens reactions to them, like they have some ownership over them because they don't have a man who "owns" them.............

[Liam-]

And people like to say gays don’t struggle any more :idc:

This is disgusting.. but not all that surprising sadly

[Epic.]

Another reason to be disgusted by this society

[Samm]

And this is why we don’t have straight pride

[Scarlett.]

What the **** is wrong with people?

[Jake.]

Absolutely disgusting. A certain batch of people are never going to change, unfortunately.

[Vicky.]

Copying my FB posts about this tbh. Yes, I post this aggressively on facebook about stuff..

'****ing vile but unsurprising. Misogyny, homophobia plus mens general feeling of entitlement to womens bodies..all in one go.'

'People keep commenting that its 'shocking'. I don't find it shocking in the slightest because basically, this is how such men behave, its not surprising at all as its common as ****. It SHOULD be surprising and should be rare so yeah, shocking, but its not. Its just business as usual. Awful. Lesbophobia seems to be on the rise again after seemingly settling down somewhat..men just cannot understand how women can be happy without a dick involved. Ugh.'

[Alf]

Disgusting coward scum!

I assume buses have CCTV? So it shouldn't be difficult to bring them to justice.

Have they been arrested and if not. Why isn't there pictures of them for people to identify them?

I heard somewhere that this happend 8 days ago, don't know if that's true or not.

[Vicky.]

Disgusting coward scum!

I assume buses have CCTV? So it shouldn't be difficult to bring them to justice.

Have they been arrested and if not. Why isn't there pictures of them for people to identify them?

I heard somewhere that this happend 8 days ago, don't know if that's true or not.

Should be easy enough to find them as yeah I think all buses and stuff have cctv now. Whether they are actually charged will be a different story, given when its attacks on women, even recordings of the attacks are apparently not enough proof to secure a proescution these days :umm2:

[Oliver_W]

Jesus, I hope they find the thugs...

[thesheriff443]

Not all men see gay women gay men or women as lesser human beings.

[Amy Jade]

****ing scum. Praying they catch them.

[reece(:]

Horrendous, utterly horrendous...

[Glenn.]

Not all men see gay women gay men or women as lesser human beings.

True.

But there’s enough to make it an ongoing problem...

[thesheriff443]

True.

But there’s enough to make it an ongoing problem...

Humans are attacking and killing each other every minute of the day.

Education and punishment is the answer but it will take decades in my opinion and still I don’t think it will stop it happening completely.

[AnnieK]

Awful attack :sad:

In the article I read it said the bus stopped and the Police boarded, hopefully the driver called the police and they were arrested.

[Tom4784]

And this is a good example of why Pride is a thing and why that Straight Pride festival is a joke.

Nobody has ever suffered prejudice or violence on the grounds of being straight but anyone who isn't straight has to consider that they are at risk of incidents like this if they just so happen to be with a same sex partner in public.

I hope the beasts that did this face the full extent of the law, it's a vile crime.

[Jordan.]

And this is a good example of why Pride is a thing and why that Straight Pride festival is a joke.

Nobody has ever suffered prejudice or violence on the grounds of being straight but anyone who isn't straight has to consider that they are at risk of incidents like this if they just so happen to be with a same sex partner in public.

I hope the beasts that did this face the full extent of the law, it's a vile crime.

:clap1:

[GiRTh]

Absolutely disgraceful.

[Tony Montana]

****ing pricks! Hopefully they catch them. Lock them up and throw away the key.

[Shaun]

Nobody has ever suffered prejudice or violence on the grounds of being straight but anyone who isn't straight has to consider that they are at risk of incidents like this if they just so happen to be with a same sex partner in public.

The first half of this will be picked apart by people who've cried whenever they read someone on Twitter say "hetties are gross" or whatever but it really doesn't compare to the fear people still feel when they want to hold hands with their partner, or express their opinions on something seen as too gay/camp/flamboyant. We've a long way to go and I don't think we'll ever get there; division is inherently human and there'll always be something 'different' about the LGBT community that some drunken idiot, or pack of bullies, will want to exploit.

I've thankfully never experienced physical violence (as a victim or a witness) but the verbal abuse is still commonplace enough to require Pride events as a morale boost, if nothing more. I've always seen them as a celebration of queer history though, an opportunity to learn about Stonewall, people like Harvey Milk and Marsha P Johnson, or to thank the trans and drag pioneers who were most unafraid when they had every right to be. I can see why people are put off by the "big party" element of it and corporations definitely still exploit Pride for queer $ but I wouldn't wish it away just because of that... would be like wanting rid of Mother's Day because the floral industry is doing massive damage to the environment.

Cases like this are extremely rare and we like to think we are a tolerant society now but you needn't look far to see hateful attitudes and open insults. Especially in the trade that I work in (manual labour, contractor work, building sites, etc... it's quite routine to hear the words 'cocksucker' and '****' used liberally).

[Twosugars]

The first half of this will be picked apart by people who've cried whenever they read someone on Twitter say "hetties are gross" or whatever but it really doesn't compare to the fear people still feel when they want to hold hands with their partner, or express their opinions on something seen as too gay/camp/flamboyant. We've a long way to go and I don't think we'll ever get there; division is inherently human and there'll always be something 'different' about the LGBT community that some drunken idiot, or pack of bullies, will want to exploit.

I've thankfully never experienced physical violence (as a victim or a witness) but the verbal abuse is still commonplace enough to require Pride events as a morale boost, if nothing more. I've always seen them as a celebration of queer history though, an opportunity to learn about Stonewall, people like Harvey Milk and Marsha P Johnson, or to thank the trans and drag pioneers who were most unafraid when they had every right to be. I can see why people are put off by the "big party" element of it and corporations definitely still exploit Pride for queer $ but I wouldn't wish it away just because of that... would be like wanting rid of Mother's Day because the floral industry is doing massive damage to the environment.

Cases like this are extremely rare and we like to think we are a tolerant society now but you needn't look far to see hateful attitudes and open insults. Especially in the trade that I work in (manual labour, contractor work, building sites, etc... it's quite routine to hear the words 'cocksucker' and '****' used liberally).

Wonderful post, agree 100 percent

[Barry.]

Shocked that men beat up women.

[arista]

Shocked that men beat up women.


Thugs that wanted them to Perform
in front of them.
One of the Women said they kissed
that's when the Thugs got closer.


It was on CNN HD

Happened on the 30th of may
night bus in Camden.

[arista]

Awful attack :sad:

In the article I read it said the bus stopped and the Police boarded, hopefully the driver called the police and they were arrested.


No I think they ran off
As Police are asking for Witness
The Driver did the right thing.

[smudgie]

Shocked that men beat up women.

These are not men, they are barbaric bullying knobheads.
Big brave beasts that can knock around a couple of innocent women.
Hopefully karma will catch them one day.:fist:

[chuff me dizzy]

Absolutely disgusting ,their poor faces ,I hope they catch who did it and lock them up

[arista]

1137020503737208832

[Kate!]

1137020503737208832

Good

[Glenn.]

I say castrate them

[Tom4784]

The first half of this will be picked apart by people who've cried whenever they read someone on Twitter say "hetties are gross" or whatever but it really doesn't compare to the fear people still feel when they want to hold hands with their partner, or express their opinions on something seen as too gay/camp/flamboyant. We've a long way to go and I don't think we'll ever get there; division is inherently human and there'll always be something 'different' about the LGBT community that some drunken idiot, or pack of bullies, will want to exploit.

I've thankfully never experienced physical violence (as a victim or a witness) but the verbal abuse is still commonplace enough to require Pride events as a morale boost, if nothing more. I've always seen them as a celebration of queer history though, an opportunity to learn about Stonewall, people like Harvey Milk and Marsha P Johnson, or to thank the trans and drag pioneers who were most unafraid when they had every right to be. I can see why people are put off by the "big party" element of it and corporations definitely still exploit Pride for queer $ but I wouldn't wish it away just because of that... would be like wanting rid of Mother's Day because the floral industry is doing massive damage to the environment.

Cases like this are extremely rare and we like to think we are a tolerant society now but you needn't look far to see hateful attitudes and open insults. Especially in the trade that I work in (manual labour, contractor work, building sites, etc... it's quite routine to hear the words 'cocksucker' and '****' used liberally).

Yeah, the town I live in was known for being homophobic AF so I was very much raised in a place where I always believed that people knowing what I was would lead to, at best, rejection from everyone and, at worst, being harmed or worse. Things have gotten better, I almost can't believe how far we've come since I was a kid but still.. Even now, being raised in this place has affected me. I'm extremely cautious if I'm out and about with another man and I'm not particularly forthcoming with people about that part of my life, I can be very closed off because of it all. I'm better than I used to be but there's still that feeling in the air. People have become more accepting but the problem's still there beneath the surface.

[hijaxers]

Complete and utter turds ~ i don't know any 'man' that would behave so disgustingly , my daughter is gay and i would go after bastard if they went for her.

[Cherie]

horrendous attack, there must be footage, why hasn't it been released, this happened 30th May

[Cherie]

1137020503737208832

good

[bots]

it's not acceptable for anyone to be assaulted. I hope they get a heavy punishment

[Vicky.]

horrendous attack, there must be footage, why hasn't it been released, this happened 30th May

Maybe the women involved didn't want it to be released.

[arista]

Some of the Evil Attackers are just 18.

[hijaxers]

Some of the Evil Attackers are just 18.

Well i hope their parents are well proud of what they produced ! unfit humans for society.

[Jigs]

Ugh this brought a tear to my eye. Traumatic that anyone should have to experience such a thing.

[Beso]

I shared a few gins with a cuddling gay male couple on the way down on the train from Edinburgh to London the other day...they begged me not to share it on tibb after I explained the place the best I could to them.

[Cherie]

Maybe the women involved didn't want it to be released.

maybe not but there must have been footage of the guys on the bus before the attack, maybe they didnt release because they were confident of arresting them or something

[caprimint]

I'm really shocked and disgusted by this.

I just don't know why they thought they could tell somebody what to do... then because they refused actually physically assault them? :umm2: So so awful.

[caprimint]

Oh and a similar thing could've happened if they were guys. Although the attackers wouldn't have told them to kiss most likely, just attacked them anyway. So being girls isn't really that relevant, I don't agree that it's because they wanted to 'control' them, I think it's simply because they didn't get what they wanted and it would've been the same regardless of their gender

[Ammi]

...an awful and cowardly attack...I hope the couple get all the emotional support required and the attackers are fully punished by the law...


...Dezzy and Shaun also..:hug:...I’m so sorry for your own personal experiences of prejudice that still continue...and make you feel you restricted in who you are and how you express yourselves...I’m so, so sorry you experience those things..:hug:...

[Beso]

It's tragic..just kids...

This is horrid cause I would never let anyone be put down in my prescence if they were gay...so this is a serious question..the age of the kids.


Do you think that might have something to do with how much the LGBT community is featured these days in every walk of life...

[Marsh.]

It's tragic..just kids...

This is horrid cause I would never let anyone be put down in my prescence if they were gay...so this is a serious question..the age of the kids.


Do you think that might have something to do with how much the LGBT community is featured these days in every walk of life...

Are you saying LGBTQ being too visible is the reason behind stuff like this?

[Tom4784]

It's tragic..just kids...

This is horrid cause I would never let anyone be put down in my prescence if they were gay...so this is a serious question..the age of the kids.


Do you think that might have something to do with how much the LGBT community is featured these days in every walk of life...

So it's not the kids' fault, it's down to the LGBT being better represented in today's world? Good grief.

I've got a better idea, these animals are arseholes that decided to attack two people and rob them because of their sexuality and gender. Let's not blame anything else other than these ***** for their own actions.

[Twosugars]

Tbh, even in London anywhere outside of Soho, you're taking your chances with holding hands or being affectionate.

[Ammi]

...where does it say the ages of the attackers, I’ve missed that..?..

[arista]

...where does it say the ages of the attackers, I’ve missed that..?..



It was on SkyNewsHD Live


They said some were 18 year olds

[Ammi]

It was on SkyNewsHD Live

...:love:...what are their ages, Arista..?..

[Ammi]

...oh 18yrs old, I saw your post Arista...I’ll learn to read soon..:laugh:...they’re adults in the eyes of the law and hopefully will receive adult judgements...

[Redway]

It was on SkyNewsHD Live


They said some were 18 year olds

So legally grown-arse men. People need to find some other excuse to justify these stupid boys (or not).

[arista]

...oh 18yrs old, I saw your post Arista...I’ll learn to read soon..:laugh:...they’re adults in the eyes of the law and hopefully will receive adult judgements...



Ch4HD news just said 4 Teenagers arrested

[Twosugars]

Ages 15 to 18 says the Guardian

[Liam-]

Try them all as adults and throw away the key, especially since it’s going to be considered a hate crime

[caprimint]

Tbh, even in London anywhere outside of Soho, you're taking your chances with holding hands or being affectionate.
Camden is one of the most 'diverse' areas though. I'd still say it's not 'safe' to do it anywhere (which is really really sad). The thing is it happened because it was a night bus and they were alone with nobody else there.

[Livia]

You can see attitudes like ‘why are they moaning? That have it so good these days’ all over the place

It’s events like these that actually show that there’s still a long way to go before gays are treated like proper equals rather than sideshow tokens for entertainment or profit.

I don't know if you mean me, Liam, I have definitely said how things have changed for gay people, that they used to be jailed and suffer terrible injustices and now they can marry and have equal rights under the law.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone on here say gay people should just accept the beatings because things are improving. This was a despicable crime.

[armand.kay]

Nothing like a cute gay bashing to remind you that despite all this "gays have no reason to complain" "Britain is a progressive country" homophobia is still rife and you're still not truly safe being openly gay in public. I'm so sorry that these women had to go through this and I can only hope the monsters responsible are caught.

[Smithy]

Ages 15 to 18 says the Guardian

But we can can’t teach kids about LGBT!!

[GiRTh]

It's tragic..just kids...

This is horrid cause I would never let anyone be put down in my prescence if they were gay...so this is a serious question..the age of the kids.


Do you think that might have something to do with how much the LGBT community is featured these days in every walk of life...:umm2::umm2::umm2::umm2:

[Twosugars]

But we can can’t teach kids about LGBT!!

I know :facepalm:

[Beso]

So legally grown-arse men. People need to find some other excuse to justify these stupid boys (or not).

I agree I thought they were 16.

[Beso]

Are you saying LGBTQ being too visible is the reason behind stuff like this?

Sorry..I had something to do..


Yeah, maybe in the mentality nifty these idiots..perhaps the promotion of it gave them a target...I dunno though, just asking x

[Marsh.]

Sorry..I had something to do..


Yeah, maybe in the mentality nifty these idiots..perhaps the promotion of it gave them a target...I dunno though, just asking x

Do you mean promotion generally or these two specific girls?

[Beso]

Do you mean promotion generally or these two specific girls?

I mean that these horrible people that attacked these two girls for showing affection have had the rights of these 2 girls force fed to them for ages that it has made them target the girls.

To some extent.


.I'm not trying to diminish anything if dezzy can see me,.it's just a random thought to be honest.

[Vicky.]

Nah I think they attacked these women because they are homophobic misogynistic entitled young men who think the world exists to please them and their knobs.

I don't think the rising visibility of gay people in media, news and such will have influenced them to attack them. That would be a poor excuse if they tried to use that one (most likely it will be 'I was drunk' then all will be forgiven as poor drunk men don't know what they are doing. Bless.) I think. I mean.. 'Last week I saw a local pride march, then I opened my paper and saw a story about a gay couple getting married, then turned on my TV and RuPaul was on, then I saw two girls kissing and just SNAPPED' would be an interesting defence to try I guess. And it may even be sucessful given the dire rates of prosecution for men who attack women.

[Marsh.]

I mean that these horrible people that attacked these two girls for showing affection have had the rights of these 2 girls force fed to them for ages that it has made them target the girls.

To some extent.


.I'm not trying to diminish anything if dezzy can see me,.it's just a random thought to be honest.

But the boys attacked them after actually asking them to 'show affection'?

Like they wanted to get off on them kissing. :think:

[thesheriff443]

There is no defence or excuse for what these animals did.

What needs to happen is they get very long prison sentences and it is shown in all media outlets, we need zero tolerance not only on these types of crimes but all crime.

[Jordan.]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone on here say gay people should just accept the beatings because things are improving. This was a despicable crime.

I mean Parmnion is in here suggesting if gay rights weren't so prevalent or "force fed" as he put it maybe they wouldn't have been attacked so we're not far off.

[bots]

Not wishing to down play this attack, but the people who did it obviously set out to attack vulnerable people. If it hadn't been them, someone else would have been the target. Thugs are thugs, and we can try to sub label them if that makes people understand it better, but I don't think that is the root of the problem. Anyone who is vulnerable should be able to go on a night out and be safe at the end of it

[Beso]

I mean Parmnion is in here suggesting if gay rights weren't so prevalent or "force fed" as he put it maybe they wouldn't have been attacked so we're not far off.

I am not suggesting that at all....I merely asked if it could be that...I got a good enough answer to dispel.that thought....but keep twisting g everything I post...

[user104658]

It's not technically homophobic, I don't think they had any problem with these women being gay, the problem was that they wouldn't comply with their aggression and put on a show. Misogynistic thuggery basically. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they'd do the same to any female or group of females, and have a completely twisted idea of entitlement almost.

That's not to diminish the attack or say that homophobic attacks don't exist, obviously they do.

[caprimint]

It's not technically homophobic, I don't think they had any problem with these women being gay, the problem was that they wouldn't comply with their aggression and put on a show. Misogynistic thuggery basically. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they'd do the same to any female or group of females, and have a completely twisted idea of entitlement almost.

That's not to diminish the attack or say that homophobic attacks don't exist, obviously they do.
Yeah I totally agree with this

Not wishing to down play this attack, but the people who did it obviously set out to attack vulnerable people. If it hadn't been them, someone else would have been the target. Thugs are thugs, and we can try to sub label them if that makes people understand it better, but I don't think that is the root of the problem. Anyone who is vulnerable should be able to go on a night out and be safe at the end of it
I don't think they 'planned' to attack anyone, it was because the girls didn't do what they wanted and Chris 'confronted' them

[thesheriff443]

What ever catagory of crime you want to put it in does not matter
An unprovoked attack on two women should come with at least a five year prison sentence.

[Ammi]

...there is still a homophobic element to the attack..(..imo..)...if it’s something they wouldn’t have requested of a heterosexual couple...fir them to show public displays of affection for the attackers’ personal amusement in some way...the request was made purely because of their sexuality, I feel...that is homophobia..

[user104658]

...there is still a homophobic element to the attack..(..imo..)...if it’s something they wouldn’t have requested of a heterosexual couple...fir them to show public displays of affection for the attackers’ personal amusement in some way...the request was made purely because of their sexuality, I feel...that is homophobia..I don't disagree that it's partly driven by them being gay and these individuals noticing that and them being targeted because of that, so they were targeted because they were gay, but not because the attackers were homophobic. Its a complicated one there and like I said it doesn't lessen the seriousness of the crime AT ALL, but I do think it's worth preserving words like homophobia and not letting them fall into the realms of dubious meaning. Homophobes are people who dislike or hate homosexuals and think that homosexuality is morally wrong or distasteful. That's what it should always mean... It should be clear what someone means when they say something is homophobic. IMO it's quite important.

[user104658]

Tbh I also think that specifically calling this a homophobic attack kind of downplays the fact that it was primarily an attack by a group of men on two women who were minding their own business. It shifts the focus away from that horrifying fact.

[bots]

Tbh I also think that specifically calling this a homophobic attack kind of downplays the fact that it was primarily an attack by a group of men on two women who were minding their own business. It shifts the focus away from that horrifying fact.

yeah, that was the point i was trying to make. First and foremost, these attackers are thugs

[Ammi]

I don't disagree that it's partly driven by them being gay and these individuals noticing that and them being targeted because of that, so they were targeted because they were gay, but not because the attackers were homophobic. Its a complicated one there and like I said it doesn't lessen the seriousness of the crime AT ALL, but I do think it's worth preserving words like homophobia and not letting them fall into the realms of dubious meaning. Homophobes are people who dislike or hate homosexuals and think that homosexuality is morally wrong or distasteful. That's what it should always mean... It should be clear what someone means when they say something is homophobic. IMO it's quite important.

...I think you and I are going to disagree on this one TS...I do feel that it’s important to preserve words as you say...so that they keep their weight and the gravity ...but I cannot look at the blood on those faces and running down their clothes...realise the fear and confusion they must have felt then and look at how that will effect them in the future...?...and not have the word and the mindset of homophobia scream at me in the loudest of voices...

[Cherie]

...I think you and I are going to disagree on this one TS...I do feel that it’s important to preserve words as you say...so that they keep their weight and the gravity ...but I cannot look at the blood on those faces and running down their clothes...realise the fear and confusion they must have felt then and look at how that will effect them in the future...?...and not have the word and the mindset of homophobia scream at me in the loudest of voices...

just a question Ammi, I don't know if you recall the disabled woman covered in flour while minding her own business in a park maybe a year or so back and you pointed to a lack of things to do as being a possible factor in their behaviour, would you say the same for these 4 given it appears the age range starts at 15?

for clarification I personally don't think a lack of things to do is any excuse for thuggery anywhere...

[bots]

A boy aged 16 has been arrested over a homophobic attack which left two women covered in blood after refusing to kiss on a bus.

Melania Geymonat, 28, said the attack on her and partner Chris happened on the top deck of a London night bus.

A group of young men began harassing them when they discovered the women were a couple, asking them to kiss while making sexual gestures.

Four other males aged between 15 and 18 remain in custody, the Met said.

They are being questioned on suspicion of robbery and aggravated grievous bodily harm.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48566800

[user104658]

...I think you and I are going to disagree on this one TS...I do feel that it’s important to preserve words as you say...so that they keep their weight and the gravity ...but I cannot look at the blood on those faces and running down their clothes...realise the fear and confusion they must have felt then and look at how that will effect them in the future...?...and not have the word and the mindset of homophobia scream at me in the loudest of voices...That's where it gets difficult for me thoygh too Ammi and I find this hard to express in a way that doesn't sound like I'm trying to excuse or downplay attacks on LGBT people; like some people might see a gay person being attacked specifically for being gay and say "Forget homophobia assault is never acceptable" but that's not what I'm aiming for here at all.

I look at those pictures and they scream at me the entitlement and aggression of a group of males who wanted to use two women for their own pleasure, and became angry and violent when they weren't able to control them and they didn't comply. I think people might (wrongly) use the fact that they are gay to dismiss that part of this attack entirely. I don't know to what expent homophobic thought motivated these individuals but I am fairly certain that their over-riding mindset in doing any of it is that women are the belongings and playthings of men, and FAR, FAR too many young men are growing up with that idea.

[Ammi]

just a question Ammi, I don't know if you recall the disabled woman covered in flour while minding her own business in a park maybe a year or so back and you pointed to a lack of things to do as being a possible factor in their behaviour, would you say the same for these 4 given it appears the age range starts at 15?

for clarification I personally don't think a lack of things to do is any excuse for thuggery anywhere...

...I can’t recall the thread or the context in which I said that..if I did and if you say I did then I must have, Cherie...unless I can recap then I can’t possible reply to your question ...as I’m sure you’ll realise...


...I guess all I can say..?... as a general on the forum I don’t go with these type of ‘analogies’ because I prefer to look at things individually with all of the factors involved ..and less a one size fits all, type thing...if that makes sense...

[Ammi]

That's where it gets difficult for me thoygh too Ammi and I find this hard to express in a way that doesn't sound like I'm trying to excuse or downplay attacks on LGBT people; like some people might see a gay person being attacked specifically for being gay and say "Forget homophobia assault is never acceptable" but that's not what I'm aiming for here at all.

I look at those pictures and they scream at me the entitlement and aggression of a group of males who wanted to use two women for their own pleasure, and became angry and violent when they weren't able to control them and they didn't comply. I think people might (wrongly) use the fact that they are gay to dismiss that part of this attack entirely. I don't know to what expent homophobic thought motivated these individuals but I am fairly certain that their over-riding mindset in doing any of it is that women are the belongings and playthings of men, and FAR, FAR too many young men are growing up with that idea.

...I agree that there is a good possibility the same wouldn’t have been requested of two males...to ‘perform’, you know...so that obviously is factored in ...that they were exerting a control ...but that still for me doesn’t take away the homophobia...it only adds another level...their action was still homophobic and I use that word with its full weight, TS...but obviously those are just my feelings...

[Cherie]

...I can’t recall the thread or the context in which I said that..if I did and if you say I did then I must have, Cherie...unless I can recap then I can’t possible reply to your question ...as I’m sure you’ll realise...


...I guess all I can say..?... as a general on the forum I don’t go with these type of ‘analogies’ because I prefer to look at things individually with all of the factors involved ..and less a one size fits all, type thing...if that makes sense...

Okay no worries, thanks for the response

[user104658]

...I agree that there is a good possibility the same wouldn’t have been requested of two males...to ‘perform’, you know...so that obviously is factored in ...that they were exerting a control ...but that still for me doesn’t take away the homophobia...it only adds another level...their action was still homophobic and I use that word with its full weight, TS...but obviously those are just my feelings...

I just can't see that the element motivated by their sexuality is hatred or fear or disgust which to me are essential components of homophobia. I'm not saying those sort of attacks don't happen, especially sexual assaults on gay women ("Women and women together is wrong, women are for men" sort of mindset) and maybe an element of that was going on here? But I honestly get the impression that they found the idea of two girls together appealing and wanted a front row seat, with the anger coming from being denied that and confronted.

[Ammi]

...but if the same requests for those displays would not have been made to a heterosexual couple ...then that is showing prejudice in the first instance and the very definition of homophobia...first there was homophobia and then something else equally unpleasant followed ...

[bots]

I just can't see that the element motivated by their sexuality is hatred or fear or disgust which to me are essential components of homophobia. I'm not saying those sort of attacks don't happen, especially sexual assaults on gay women ("Women and women together is wrong, women are for men" sort of mindset) and maybe an element of that was going on here? But I honestly get the impression that they found the idea of two girls together appealing and wanted a front row seat, with the anger coming from being denied that and confronted.

yeah, i would have thought a homophobic attack would not have been encouraging the activity, but it's only my opinion

[Twosugars]

yeah, i would have thought a homophobic attack would not have been encouraging the activity, but it's only my opinion

Not sure about that
They wanted to humiliate them

[Ammi]

..yeah humiliation, a good word Sugars...the homophobia was in the attempt to humiliate which was because of their sexuality...and the violence followed when the ladies refused to comply...

[Vicky.]

I just can't see that the element motivated by their sexuality is hatred or fear or disgust which to me are essential components of homophobia.

I get where you are coming from but..I know dislike/hatred it technically the definition of homophobia, but I would also probably say the likes of fetishisation are on very dodgy ground. I don't really mean like, men who like lesbian porn as that would mean half the male population was homophobic, but when they transfer that to real life..I don't know how to explain what I mean here to be honest. Mind, I also guess that part could be pure old male entitlement also, thinking that basically, people just exist to get them off.

I still think this is a mix of homophobia, miosgyny and male entitlement, all in one lovely ****ing mix. I do think theres a chance these lads would have done it to any female couple sat there, be they partners or friends, but, even that has an element of homophobia to it in my eyes because they are..well basically assuming that women who might/do have attaraction to other women are there for their enjoyment, nothing else, and are willing to physically attack them when the women say no. If gay men had been attacked for being presumed to be gay, even if they were straight, the intent was to beat a couple of gay people so while the attack would not be homophobc due to, well the victims not being gay, the thought behind the attack was homophobic. If that make sense. I wonder if in that case..the prosecution would actually have the hate crime element, as the intent was there, just they were mistaken in their victim choice? Not something I have thought about before.

[user104658]

I guess I might be being pedantic in saying that not all prejudice is phobia and I personally think it confuses a very delicate issue to, I guess, lump things in as "all the same". The issue I guess is that I can't think of an - ism for LGBT issues like this to illustrate. It's definitely "Homosexualityism" but that word doesn't exist?

I guess to use race as a comparison... ALL xenophobia is racism. Not every incidence of racism is rooted in xenophobia. And the meanings of the two words are not identical. This is definitely the equivalent of racism, but not necessarily the equivalent of xenophobia. :think:

[Ammi]

...institutionalised homophobia, internalised homophobia and etc...’homophobia’ is all encompassing of many prejudices, intolerances and ‘hates’ which are obviously related in sexualities...but to use the word in this case I think is accurate in the weight it carries and is in no way a misuse...


....anyways it’s not something I want to get involved in ‘pedantic’ about just because I personally think that does devalue in its distraction...

[Ammi]

...it’s really hard to think how such young people in 2019...can have so much intolerance of sexuality instilled in their mindsets ..?...as is the same when we hear of racism in the same way...terrifying....

[arista]

5 young punks arrested

[armand.kay]

Do you think that might have something to do with how much the LGBT community is featured these days in every walk of life...

no.

[Tom4784]

I think it's splitting hairs debating if this was homophobia or not, these women were attacked because of their sexuality, that's all that matters. If you chose to attack someone because of their sexuality then that makes you a homophobe in my eyes.

[user104658]

I think it's splitting hairs debating if this was homophobia or not, these women were attacked because of their sexuality, that's all that matters. If you chose to attack someone because of their sexuality then that makes you a homophobe in my eyes.I don't think it's splitting hairs when there are a hell of a lot of men out there who will happily put this down to being "a terrible LGBT issue" and happily brush aside the threatening atmosphere that women face when confronted by groups of men every single day, just because they're female.

[Cherie]

...it’s really hard to think how such young people in 2019...can have so much intolerance of sexuality instilled in their mindsets ..?...as is the same when we hear of racism in the same way...terrifying....

yes it is, I thought we were moving forward but it like we are stuck or even going into reverse

[user104658]

yes it is, I thought we were moving forward but it like we are stuck or even going into reverseIt's been ingrained for so long that I think it just plateau'd decades ago. We reached the point where everyone who really believes in equality openly wants it, and then for a while we pushed past into an era where the ones who deep down never wanted it still "went along with it" and were (quite rightly) embarrassed by their opinions but now that thread has broken and the types of people who never really wanted it will just happily and openly declare it.

Social media has played a huge part - showing people that they're not alone in their toxic views so they feel supported in sharing them - but crap like Trump winning the presidency and the popularity of the likes of Tommy Robinson have really finished it off. "PC" is officially dead, just as some people wanted, and these are the effects.

The truth is that people are VULNERABLE out in the world. Especially women, and gay couples, and other minorities. The only thing protecting anyone when it comes right down to it, is social etiquette, and that's being eroded by the day. What's left when people don't feel ashamed to do and say whatever the hell they want? The thin illusion that the authorities or the government can actually protect anyone meaningfully slips away like it never existed. The worst kind of anarchy.

[GiRTh]

It's been ingrained for so long that I think it just plateau'd decades ago. We reached the point where everyone who really believes in equality openly wants it, and then for a while we pushed past into an era where the ones who deep down never wanted it still "went along with it" and were (quite rightly) embarrassed by their opinions but now that thread has broken and the types of people who never really wanted it will just happily and openly declare it.

Social media has played a huge part - showing people that they're not alone in their toxic views so they feel supported in sharing them - but crap like Trump winning the presidency and the popularity of the likes of Tommy Robinson have really finished it off. "PC" is officially dead, just as some people wanted, and these are the effects.

The truth is that people are VULNERABLE out in the world. Especially women, and gay couples, and other minorities. The only thing protecting anyone when it comes right down to it, is social etiquette, and that's being eroded by the day. What's left when people don't feel ashamed to do and say whatever the hell they want? The thin illusion that the authorities or the government can actually protect anyone meaningfully slips away like it never existed. The worst kind of anarchy.:thumbs:

[Beso]

Did they go out looking to attack a lesbian couple....I doubt it..


They attacked though, i think this is more a psychological issue more than a direct and targeted attack on the gay community.

[Marsh.]

Did they go out looking to attack a lesbian couple....I doubt it..


They attacked though, i think this is more a psychological issue more than a direct and targeted attack on the gay community.

Is there a difference?

No, they didn't go out on the hunt for a gay couple to attack. But, they still attacked a gay couple... for being gay. The difference doesn't change anything.

[Beso]

Is there a difference?

No, they didn't go out on the hunt for a gay couple to attack. But, they still attacked a gay couple... for being gay. The difference doesn't change anything.

Could easily have been an old man that had told them to show some respect.

[Smithy]

Could easily have been an old man that had told them to show some respect.

Did you miss the part where they demanded the lesbian couple kiss for their amusement?

No it couldn’t have easily been an old man

[Twosugars]

Could easily have been an old man that had told them to show some respect.

Their hostility towards gays was pre existing. Opportunity to act on it presented itself and they took it.

But also what kind of a man beats up women? :facepalm:

[armand.kay]

Could easily have been an old man that had told them to show some respect.

Well it wasn't was it? It was a lesbian couple minding their business before being subjected to misogynist and homophobic harassment. ****ing hell why are you trying to derail from this??

[Beso]

Did you miss the part where they demanded the lesbian couple kiss for their amusement?

No it couldn’t have easily been an old man

It could have been, if he was sat where they were and turned and told them to shut up...

[reece(:]

They attacked though, i think this is more a psychological issue more than a direct and targeted attack on the gay community.
I'd say the only vulnerable ones were the ones left blooded and scarred. Ridiculous to suggest this was not homophobic attack!

[Beso]

Their hostility towards gays was pre existing. Opportunity to act on it presented itself and they took it.

But also what kind of a man beats up women? :facepalm:

The same kind that would be at up and old man that told them to shut up in front of thier mates.

[user104658]

Did they go out looking to attack a lesbian couple....I doubt it..


They attacked though, i think this is more a psychological issue more than a direct and targeted attack on the gay community.Psychological in a sense but we're in the realms of social psychology here not individual psychology. Gang mentality, bystander apathy, boasting and displays of "power". These individuals are not mentally ill.

[Twosugars]

The same kind that would be at up and old man that told them to shut up in front of thier mates.

Why discuss hypotheticals?
Let's stick to facts. They perpetrated a violent homophobic attack

[Beso]

Psychological in a sense but we're in the realms of social psychology here not individual psychology. Gang mentality, bystander apathy, boasting and displays of "power". These individuals are not mentally ill.

But they are immature enough to react violently if they are somehow belittled in front of thier mates...like when they refused to kiss...


Same would have happened if an old bloke had pulled them up for swearing or something..

Imo..there wasn't an attack until the couple started standing thier ground, making the mockers turn volent to save face.

[sleleen]

I'd say the only vulnerable ones were the ones left blooded and scarred. Ridiculous to suggest this was not homophobic attack!

:clap1:

[Beso]

Why discuss hypotheticals?
Let's stick to facts. They perpetrated a violent homophobic attack

That's been established, please allow the discussion to move on.

[GiRTh]

...it’s really hard to think how such young people in 2019...can have so much intolerance of sexuality instilled in their mindsets ..?...as is the same when we hear of racism in the same way...terrifying....Yes its very depressing.

[thesheriff443]

Real life, I was in McDonald’s this evening a group of teenagers 14 to 15 one black girl three white girls and a gay guy, the started lighting cigarettes und the table this was noticed by a new polish girl who was cleaning tables she reported it to the counter staff who did nothing she was then abused by all in the group calling her names this including the gay guy, called her a polish *****. They left,

I later had a conversation with another member of staff and told him of the abuse, because of their age they can do nothing even when the police are called they can do nothing.

He said we are facing this problem every day.

[Smithy]

Real life, I was in McDonald’s this evening a group of teenagers 14 to 15 one black girl three white girls and a gay guy, the started lighting cigarettes und the table this was noticed by a new polish girl who was cleaning tables she reported it to the counter staff who did nothing she was then abused by all in the group calling her names this including the gay guy, called her a polish *****. They left,

I later had a conversation with another member of staff and told him of the abuse, because of their age they can do nothing even when the police are called they can do nothing.

He said we are facing this problem every day.

What has that got to do with anything?

And how do you know he was gay?

[GiRTh]

But they are immature enough to react violently if they are somehow belittled in front of thier mates...like when they refused to kiss...


Same would have happened if an old bloke had pulled them up for swearing or something..

Imo..there wasn't an attack until the couple started standing thier ground, making the mockers turn volent to save face.Its almost like the women made the men attack them. We see this attitude in other areas of life so its not so shocking here. :thumbs:

[thesheriff443]

What has that got to do with anything?

And how do you know he was gay?

It’s whats going on in town every day people have no respect for one another.

[thesheriff443]

Even straight guys can spot gay guys.

[Cherie]

It’s whats going on in town every day people have no respect for one another.

true enough

[Smithy]

It’s whats going on in town every day people have no respect for one another.

Even straight guys can spot gay guys.

So it has nothing to do with the thread

And you’re just assuming someone’s sexuality based on how they look

Great contribution

[Beso]

Its almost like the women made the men attack them. We see this attitude in other areas of life so its not so shocking here. :thumbs:

It's not like that though...

And neither is a women wearing a short skirt an excuse....


I bet one of these kids faces was turning red in front of his mates..and I would happily back myself in thinking that's when it turned violent

[thesheriff443]

So it has nothing to do with the thread

And you’re just assuming someone’s sexuality based on how they look

Great contribution

See that’s you all over you think because I’m straight I don’t have gay friends well you are very wrong.

Why it was important to list who was in group is because abuse can come from anyone towards anyone.

[GiRTh]

It's not like that though...

And neither is a women wearing a short skirt an excuse....


I bet one of these kids faces was turning red in front of his mates..and I would happily back myself in thinking that's when it turned violentLets stop speculating and concentrate on what we know. The fact that it turned violent is my main concern, humiliation or not?

[Northern Monkey]

They needed the **** kicking out of them there and then.



Edit:The wankers who did it that is.Not the lesbians.

[Smithy]

See that’s you all over you think because I’m straight I don’t have gay friends well you are very wrong.

Why it was important to list who was in group is because abuse can come from anyone towards anyone.

I didn’t say that?

And no it’s not? That’s not relevant, posting that is just trying to minise the obvious homophobic attack that this is

“Oh well it happens to everyone” **** off with that bull**** Not All Men level attitude

[Beso]

Lets stop speculating and concentrate on what we know. The fact that it turned violent is my main concern, humiliation or not?

If that is your main concern you should listen to all opinions...instead of belittling to a minor extent.....the ones that make no sense to you..



The social workers will be on my hymn sheet

[thesheriff443]

I didn’t say that?

And no it’s not? That’s not relevant, posting that is just trying to minise the obvious homophobic attack that this is

“Oh well it happens to everyone” **** off with that bull**** Not All Men level attitude

No not all men have level attitudes that why you have swore at me for giving an example of what’s going on in town.

I never said it took anything away from the attack on those two women and if you look at my previous posts I’ve said it should be dealt with a five year prison sentence.


You want to make this thread about straight v gays when you are the one being disrespectful.

[GiRTh]

If that is your main concern you should listen to all opinions...instead of belittling to a minor extent.....the ones that make no sense to you..



The social workers will be on my hymn sheetNice try, dont do that.

You said you're not surprised it got violent? Yes or no? That concerns me? Do you wish to discuss it or act the victim. Remember, you - not me - said it. :thumbs:

[Beso]

Imo..the first thing to learn from this(i learned it years ago)

See a bunch of dodgy looking kids on a bus.....get off the next stop and get the next one.

[Matthew.]

Gross that the victims are getting blamed for what happened to them

[Beso]

Nice try, dont do that.

You said you're not surprised it got violent? Yes or no? That concerns me? Do you wish to discuss it or act the victim. Remember, you - not me - said it. :thumbs:

I can only go on past experiences....groups of boisterous kids, yeah they seen harmless.

You soon know it's not like that when you speak up.

[sleleen]

Imo..the first thing to learn from this(i learned it years ago)

See a bunch of dodgy looking kids on a bus.....get off the next stop and get the next one.

Well sorry they shouldn’t have to

[Beso]

Well sorry they shouldn’t have to

I know that...don't blame me for that.

[Mitchell]

Even straight guys can spot gay guys.

I have no words for the ignorance in this post.

[Mitchell]

Although to be honest, most of this thread is pure ignorance, a couple got assaulted because they wouldn’t kiss, going off on tangents about how people shouldn’t be gay in front of elderly people and the sort is rather vile, there is NO excuses for verbally or physically attack someone for their age, sexuality, race, religion etc and if you think there is, then you’re the mistaken one.

[Beso]

Although to be honest, most of this thread is pure ignorance, a couple got assaulted because they wouldn’t kiss, going off on tangents about how people shouldn’t be gay in front of elderly people and the sort is rather vile, there is NO excuses for verbally or physically attack someone for their age, sexuality, race, religion etc and if you think there is, then you’re the mistaken one.

The immature brain is a mysterious organ.

[Beso]

Quick question.....would 5, 39nyr old homophobes on the same bus attack these women physically?

[GiRTh]

I can only go on past experiences....groups of boisterous kids, yeah they seen harmless.

You soon know it's not like that when you speak up.Thats not what you said. You speculated that it became violent after the couple stood their ground nothing was mentioned about speaking up. You seem to be saying that the couple could not get out of this situation. That concerns me.

[Matthew.]

Although to be honest, most of this thread is pure ignorance, a couple got assaulted because they wouldn’t kiss, going off on tangents about how people shouldn’t be gay in front of elderly people and the sort is rather vile, there is NO excuses for verbally or physically attack someone for their age, sexuality, race, religion etc and if you think there is, then you’re the mistaken one.

Ignorance with a dash of homophobia and sheer bigotry :idc:

[thesheriff443]

I have no words for the ignorance in this post.

Ignorance is all I got from your post.

[Mitchell]

The immature brain is a mysterious organ.

Agreed, have you been to the doctors to see if they can do anything about it?

[Mitchell]

Ignorance is all I got from your post.

You’re assuming someone’s sexuality and saying that you can identify someone’s sexuality by just looking at them? Why don’t you audition for Britain’s got talent?

[Beso]

Thats not what you said. You speculated that it became violent after the couple stood their ground nothing was mentioned about speaking up. You seem to be saying that the couple could not get out of this situation. That concerns me.

Please explain how they could have?



Or at least why they should have?

[Beso]

Agreed, have you been to the doctors to see if they can do anything about it?

You don't agree though, you just used what I said to make a personal insult.:shrug:

[Beso]

Girth....


Refusing to kiss us standing your ground..it hadn't become violent until orders were refused....That's what I kean by the idiot trying to make them kiss in front of thier mates. .that gets refused and probably, and foolishly (I know all to well) rebuffed sternly...


So the immature prick react....like they would have if an old man had stood up and told them to shut up..I'm assuming they were loud and swearing etc.

[thesheriff443]

You’re assuming someone’s sexuality and saying that you can identify someone’s sexuality by just looking at them? Why don’t you audition for Britain’s got talent?

It was not just by his looks i was sitting next them he was very camp, plus I have gays friends, you should go somewhere as you think you know it all.

[Mitchell]

It was not just by his looks i was sitting next them he was very camp, plus I have gays friends, you should go somewhere as you think you know it all.

Just because someone is very camp, doesn’t mean someone is gay? I’m glad you have gay friends, but regardless, you can’t tell someone’s sexuality from the way they act.

[Liam-]

Just because someone is very camp, doesn’t mean someone is gay? I’m glad you have gay friends, but regardless, you can’t tell someone’s sexuality from the way they act.

Unless they’re sucking a dick or two in a whetherspoons car park obvs :p

[Mitchell]

Unless they’re sucking a dick or two in a whetherspoons car park obvs :p

Even then, could be a bisexual or just someone who enjoys sucking on other men’s todgers :p

[Liam-]

Even then, could be a bisexual or just someone who enjoys sucking on other men’s todgers :p

We stan Marsh :p

[Mitchell]

We stan Marsh :p

Has anyone offered the fella business cards?