Should National Service be brought back ?

[chuff me dizzy]

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1534522873345012

[Mitchell]

No

[Matthew.]

No, absolutely ****ing not

[Liam-]

That’s a solid no

[chuff me dizzy]

I agree it should be brought back it would sort the little thugs out

[Tony Montana]

No.

[Denver]

I'm not sure giving people who take lives a platform to take even more lives is a sensible decision

[Liam-]

Forcing people into a dangerous situation that could end up with them dying at worst, against their will is barbaric and belongs in the past, a dark time for the country imo

[chuff me dizzy]

Forcing people into a dangerous situation that could end up with them dying at worst, against their will is barbaric and belongs in the past, a dark time for the country imo

If wasn't for men being in the same situation ,theres a massive chance you wouldn't be here today

[Withano]

Ent it funny how the people that suggest its a great idea have no intention of joining or even helping themselves.

[Liam-]

If wasn't for men being in the same situation ,theres a massive chance you wouldn't be here today

Okay?... doesn’t make forcing people into deadly situations right

[Liam-]

Ent it funny how the people that suggest its a great idea have no intention of joining or even helping themselves.

‘We resent you, your generation and your existence, but you have to put your life on the line to save us’

Doesn’t sit well with me

[Withano]

Sexism and ageism is a thing of the past anyway, lets just send all women over 50 over, yh chuff? Or na? Because that goes against your will?

Funny thing this suggestion isn’t it.

[chuff me dizzy]

Okay?... doesn’t make forcing people into deadly situations right

Men in both wars were forced into defending your ancestors

[Greg!]

Absolutely ****ing not. I can imagine if it was introduced most people would just refuse to do it en masse.

[Liam-]

Men in both wars were forced into defending your ancestors

Still doesn’t make forcing people to their death right

[chuff me dizzy]

Absolutely ****ing not. I can imagine if it was introduced most people would just refuse to do it en masse.

When NS was in place you would be sent to prison for refusing and the cowards white feathers would be wavy at your family when they left the house

[Smithy]

Men in both wars were forced into defending your ancestors

Women didn’t, maybe you’d like a go?

[Marsh.]

I agree it should be brought back it would sort the little thugs out

Said by a woman who would never have had to do national service anyway but feels qualified to put down another generation and gender with a strange air of superiority.

[Marsh.]

When NS was in place you would be sent to prison for refusing and the cowards white feathers would be wavy at your family when they left the house

Of course, nobody could call you a coward as you didn't have such a decision forced upon you. So you feel safe and secure to throw your judgement at the people that were forced, knowing you wouldn't have that burden. Ironic as that in itself is quite cowardly.

[chuff me dizzy]

Am I shocked by the replies to my question ? Of course not, its what I expected

Am I disgusted by the selfish comments ? Oh yes I sure am

[user104658]

No and it's a daft argument / moot point as it stands absolutely no chance of getting through in a vote. I don't even know why it's come up. My guess would be that the guy knows fine well its not realistic but is swinging it about to entice some very specific votes.

[Liam-]

Am I shocked by the replies to my question ? Of course not, its what I expected

Am I disgusted by the selfish comments ? Oh yes I sure am

It’s selfish to not want to be forced to your death? Don’t be ridiculous

What about all the young carers out there, what happens to the people they care for once they’re kitted up and shipped off to die?

It’s a barbaric concept that goes against all kinds of human rights but am I surprised that you support it? Oh no, I’m really not

[Amy Jade]

No, forcing somebody to do anything like that is horrible.

Also it's not selfish to not wish to want to be sent to your death. What a stupid thing to say.

[Smithy]

Am I shocked by the replies to my question ? Of course not, its what I expected

Am I disgusted by the selfish comments ? Oh yes I sure am

Selfish :laugh3:

But you won’t do it? So you’re just as selfish

[Amy Jade]

Of course, nobody could call you a coward as you didn't have such a decision forced upon you. So you feel safe and secure to throw your judgement at the people that were forced, knowing you wouldn't have that burden. Ironic as that in itself is quite cowardly.

This is a great point.

Always easy to cast judgement upon those who are forced into difficult situations when never had to face the same situation yourself.

[Amy Jade]

I'm opting out but Chuff can take my spot since she's so keen

[Glenn.]

National service no.

A different approach with education is the answer.

[Greg!]

When NS was in place you would be sent to prison for refusing and the cowards white feathers would be wavy at your family when they left the house

Yeah, 100 years ago when there was a literal global war on.

[Matthew.]

I don’t think it’s selfish not to want to join the military

Also why make a thread asking a question like this only to shut down every single answer that’s given and call us all selfish?

[arista]

Yes
Bring it back
It will help the young

[Liam-]

Yes
Bring it back
It will help the young

By getting them killed, or at best, only seriously mentally damaged?

[arista]

By getting them killed, or at best, only seriously mentally damaged?


They will not get killed.
It will help them in Life.

[Braden]

I say no because I think there are too many mentally and physically unwell people who would not be able to do it, and to implement NS again would just strengthen the stigma that these people are not capable when we're already trying very hard to break that barrier.

It also eliminates a sense of freedom that young people are not able to explore themselves for that period of time.

[Liam-]

They will not get killed.
It will help them in Life.

If they’re lucky enough to come back alive and sane that is

[bots]

There are far more constructive things young people can be doing, like getting an education and contributing positively to the country.

National service is a remnant of the class system where ordinary people are taught their place in society, and it doesn't wash

[Tom4784]

Military service should be a choice, it's a very archaic way of thinking that forcing young people in Military service somehow prepares them for adult life. It was abolished for a reason, no need to bring it back just because the baby boomers want younger generations to suffer.

[Tom4784]

We don't take good enough care of veterans that chose to serve and people want to throw unwilling young people to the wolves and add to that burden out of a twisted sense of wanting to 'teach' young people their place. Gross.

[reece(:]

Certainly not - we do not live in a dictatorship

[Liam-]

If you really want to force people into war, it should be older people as they have less life to lose, but that would be deemed immoral by the people that want to kill off youngsters.. just for being young

[Marsh.]

Am I shocked by the replies to my question ? Of course not, its what I expected

Am I disgusted by the selfish comments ? Oh yes I sure am

Selfish? How so?

As selfish as an elderly generation wanting to bring back an archaic system to punish a younger generation they despise for.... having youth?

[Smithy]

Selfish? How so?

As selfish as an elderly generation wanting to bring back an archaic system to punish a younger generation they despise for.... having youth?

Serving the witch that poisoned Snow White teas

[sleleen]

Oh yes I sure am, I love that Ava Max bop:love:

[Alf]

Rory Stewart plans to bring this back, I believe.

National citizen service, not military, for every 16 year old.

[Tom4784]

Rory Stewart plans to bring this back, I believe.

National citizen service, not military, for every 16 year old.

Even if it's not military, the whole idea of bringing it back is just baby boomer bitterness towards the young.

A vote grab on Rory's part.

[Denver]

I think we should prepare the youth ready just incase but only training not sending them out unless they ask

[Alf]

Even if it's not military, the whole idea of bringing it back is just baby boomer bitterness towards the young.

A vote grab on Rory's part.I agree it's a vote grab.

[Tom4784]

I think we should prepare the youth ready just incase but only training not sending them out unless they ask

I don't think we should force any kind of military training on people. If we're gonna train kids for adult life, teach them how to do taxes and handle finances. Teach them the important aspects of adult life that schools don't ready them for.

[joeysteele]

No.

Not only from the angle of the young people being called up for it.
Also the reason the services themselves wouldn't want it.

No good having those doing any training not wanting to, nor those to get the training not wanting it either.

A major recipe for disaster across the board that would be.

[Denver]

A reason why it wouldnt work is mainly because of our culture.

Korea have had it drilled into their culture since the 50s so it works perfectly for their country but people in Asia have different mindsets then those of the west so I doubt we would adapt to it very well

[MB.]

I'm sure Marsh already gets serviced by the nation on a regular basis

[Morgan.]

Oh yes I sure am, I love that Ava Max bop:love:

:conf:

[sleleen]

:conf:

Someone said oh yes I sure am and it sounds like one of Ava Max’s songs sksksk

[Oliver_W]

Not National Service as it was, but maybe some form of community schemes for NEETs, to give then a boost of responsibility and self-worth.

[Morgan.]

Someone said oh yes I sure am and it sounds like one of Ava Max’s songs sksksk

Oh sksk I was actually concerned that was your response

[sleleen]

Oh sksk I was actually concerned that was your response

:joker:

[Shaun]

if by 'national service' you mean practicing ribbon-choreography to Ella Henderson's "Ghost" then yes

[Liam-]

if by 'national service' you mean practicing ribbon-choreography to Ella Henderson's "Ghost" then yes

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3oz8xwNlejeJDQREic/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5cfc1727583248386ff93e1a&rid=giphy.gif

[Mitchell]

if by 'national service' you mean practicing ribbon-choreography to Ella Henderson's "Ghost" then yes

Sign me up

[Beso]

Not national service but certainly the borstal system should.

[Northern Monkey]

I kind of wished we’d had it when i was young.One thing I regret was never joining up.
I had mates who did.
Probably would’ve put me on the right path earlier too.

[Cherie]

I think some form of national service might be better for young offenders , not sending them off to war or anything, but some form of it that would instill discipline and morals, because prison or the threat of clearly isn't working

[Mokka]

I'm sure Marsh already gets serviced by the nation on a regular basis

:joker::joker:

[Marsh.]

I'm sure Marsh already gets serviced by the nation on a regular basis

I wear nappies for this reason.

[Barry.]

What happens to the mentally ill or disabled?

[Mitchell]

What happens to the mentally ill or disabled?

Teach them hard work apparently

[AnnieK]

Nope.

[Tom4784]

Teach them hard work apparently

Nothing sorts out disability like teaching them how to shoot a gun!!!

[Mitchell]

Nothing sorts out disability like teaching them how to shoot a gun!!!

If it wasn’t for men being forced to do it back in the day they wouldn’t be able to hold a gun!

[Matthew.]

Nothing sorts out disability like teaching them how to shoot a gun!!!

That’ll sort the little ****s right out won’t it :fist:

[Marsh.]

Yeah, them thugs out punching innocent people, SHOW 'EM OUT T'SHOOT 'EM!!!!

[Cherie]

Yeah, them thugs out punching innocent people, SHOW 'EM OUT T'SHOOT 'EM!!!!


That’s not what I said at all :umm2: did you miss the bit where I said I instill morals and discipline, not sure shooting a gun comes into that

[Kazanne]

I think some form of national service might be better for young offenders , not sending them off to war or anything, but some form of it that would instill discipline and morals, because prison or the threat of clearly isn't working

Yes ,this is my line of thinking , a bootcamp or similar to teach them the world does not owe them a living and some sort of education thrown in,lets face it a lot of thugs roaming round towns etc are pretty clueless and ignorant,NS was not all about shooting guns they were taught respect,manners and how to be a decent human being as many parents just let them run feral ,I looked at those soldiers the other day with pride,if the same were to happen today,God knows where we would be, they were just a different breed and some kids today need some guidance.

[Kazanne]

What happens to the mentally ill or disabled?

Well they wouldn't be called to do it would they?:shrug:

[smudgie]

No.
Concentrate on good education and building confidence in our young.

[Vicky.]

No I do not think national service should be brought back. Theres no real reason for it these days and honestly, those who suggest it seem to see it as bascally, some sort of punishment for being young more than actual service/helping the country/whatever.

I have yet to see someone it would affect suggest it, it is always people who are older who seem to have..bitterness?..towards younger people for whatever reason.

I am probably past the age now where I would be drafted, and as a female and someone with a disablity I wouldn't be involved anyway I wouldn't think, but honestly, I think its an awful idea and seems to be borne out of dislike of the younger generation rather than owt else :shrug:

(Edit. Adding in, it being criminals and such being drafted, wouldn't really work as they would just..well not do it right. Same for it being drug addicts as suggested in here too. Again, seems to be seen as punishment for being undesibrable in some way, more than anything. Though its slightly better to see it being 'criminals should do it' than more..'young people these days do nowt, send em out to die' type comments that it tends to be on FB and such)

[Vicky.]

We don't take good enough care of veterans that chose to serve and people want to throw unwilling young people to the wolves and add to that burden out of a twisted sense of wanting to 'teach' young people their place. Gross.

Quite. Its ****ign disgusting the way people who have been injured or whatever are treat in this country these days. On the streets, a lot of them, no help, ****ing ATOS assessments over and over where the assessors who get bonuses for claiming ill people are well will repeatedly say that they are trying it on and that...its all just awful :( But then again, poor people, ill people, whatever, should all just disappear and die somewere, **** actually looking after them, lazy twats could do some kind of work couldn't they?! People today, all just wanting something for nothing :fist:

[Vicky.]

Was going to edit out all the swearing as, that post looks even more ragey than usual. But nah, anger is what should come out when talking about how ex veterans (and disabled people in general really) are treat by the system tbh. Rather than trying to put even more people in a bad situation, I think its best to try and help the current ones..out of it.

[bots]

National service comes from an era where young men were brainwashed into believing that they were subservient to the master in charge. What possible reason could anyone want to return to that class system?

[chuff me dizzy]

No I do not think national service should be brought back. Theres no real reason for it these days and honestly, those who suggest it seem to see it as bascally, some sort of punishment for being young more than actual service/helping the country/whatever.

I have yet to see someone it would affect suggest it, it is always people who are older who seem to have..bitterness?..towards younger people for whatever reason.

I am probably past the age now where I would be drafted, and as a female and someone with a disablity I wouldn't be involved anyway I wouldn't think, but honestly, I think its an awful idea and seems to be borne out of dislike of the younger generation rather than owt else :shrug:

(Edit. Adding in, it being criminals and such being drafted, wouldn't really work as they would just..well not do it right. Same for it being drug addicts as suggested in here too. Again, seems to be seen as punishment for being undesibrable in some way, more than anything. Though its slightly better to see it being 'criminals should do it' than more..'young people these days do nowt, send em out to die' type comments that it tends to be on FB and such)

Bit too far there Vicky !!

[Vicky.]

Bit too far there Vicky !!

How? Thats genuinely how I see it. The comments on any FB video/story/post about this..always chock full of older people basically saying young people should be punished for not much more than being young. It only seems to be people who it wouldn't affect who are FOR it. :shrug:

[Liam-]

National service comes from an era where young men were brainwashed into believing that they were subservient to the master in charge. What possible reason could anyone want to return to that class system?

Because young people are clearly ruining the country, might as well teach them a lesson by sending them to their death, that’ll teach ‘em!

[chuff me dizzy]

How? Thats genuinely how I see it. The comments on any FB video/story/post about this..always chock full of older people basically saying young people should be punished for not much more than being young. It only seems to be people who it wouldn't affect who are FOR it. :shrug:

Utter rubbish :joker:

[Vicky.]

Utter rubbish :joker:

You think its not older people who advocate for this? You have seen someone who would be forced into it..saying it should happen? If so, I haven't so only going on my experience..

Apologies if you were offended by that part. But really, if you aren't one of those bitter towards the young for being young, then I wasn't referring to you. Its kind of a 'not all men' response really :p

[chuff me dizzy]

You think its not older people who advocate for this? You have seen someone who would be forced into it..saying it should happen? If so, I haven't so only going on my experience..

Apologies if you were offended by that part. But really, if you aren't one of those bitter towards the young for being young, then I wasn't referring to you. Its kind of a 'not all men' response really :p

Of course lowlifes aren't going to be happy about having to actually do something with their idle lives apart from sitting on their X Box and computer all day !!

[Vicky.]

Of course lowlifes aren't going to be happy about having to actually do something with their idle lives apart from sitting on their X Box and computer all day !!

So you haven't seen anyone who is in the age group that would be affected ever say it would be a good idea then? Interesting how 'the young' becomes lowlifes who do nowt besides sit on an x box. Easier to see where you are coming from really when you put it that way. Bit of a depressing way to look at the world in all honesty, thinking the younger generation are all idle good for nothing scumbags, or whatever.

[Vicky.]

Mind, I guess that reply to what I wrote kind of..clarifies the 'are you one of those bitter about the young being young?' part.

[Glenn.]

Utter rubbish :joker:

Of course lowlifes aren't going to be happy about having to actually do something with their idle lives apart from sitting on their X Box and computer all day !!

??

[Liam-]

All young people should be punished for being young, because some young people don’t want to work, got to love a rational idea

[Kazanne]

All young people should be punished for being young, because some young people don’t want to work, got to love a rational idea

No one has said that though,people are just putting thier own spin on things.

[Glenn.]

No one has said that though,people are just putting thier own spin on things.

Chuff literally just did though

[Oliver_W]

Education isn't for everyone. Something should be in place for 16-18 year olds who need some purpose in their lives. But instead of National Service in the military, maybe something like Rory Stewart suggested, working on community projects etc.

[chuff me dizzy]

Chuff literally just did though

Its the young who need sorting out to put them on the path to be better people and less selfish

[Morgan.]

Education isn't for everyone. Something should be in place for 16-18 year olds who need some purpose in their lives. But instead of National Service in the military, maybe something like Rory Stewart suggested, working on community projects etc.

It already is. Not going to further education isn’t an option now. It’s college, sixth form or apprenticeship for 2 years regardless.

[Liam-]

Its the young who need sorting out to put them on the path to be better people and less selfish

And there we have it, the young need to die because the old don’t like them

[Glenn.]

Its the young who need sorting out to put them on the path to be better people and less selfish

There’s some of the older generation that need this too

[Vicky.]

Education isn't for everyone. Something should be in place for 16-18 year olds who need some purpose in their lives. But instead of National Service in the military, maybe something like Rory Stewart suggested, working on community projects etc.

I am fairly sure that 16-18 year olds have no choice but to be in education these days? Thats what stepson says anyway as he was planning on getting an appreticeship after school but apparently he hasto pick between college and sixth form as they can't leave at 16 now.

I left at 16 and went straight into work. Only got paid 2.50 an hour mind but was totally loaded compared to friends who chose to stay in education, who were living on 30 quid a week (and only if their parents were not well off..if your parents had cash you didn't get the 30 a week).

Because of my experience, I don't think I agree with them having to stay in education til 18, that would have depressed me and it turned out that working straight from school was by far the best thing for me, that kids today don't have that option seems a bit unfair. Mind, I guess the jobs aren't really there for them to do straight from school these days..back then, you could literally walk out of a job into the next one. So again ,much more choice and employers couldn't get away with treating you like **** as you could just walk right out...as I did once. Walked out of a job at around 6pm, and had another by 7 and started that night :laugh:

[chuff me dizzy]

There’s some of the older generation that need this too

I agree some older people could do with bringing in line too, the ones who've abused the system all their lives, never worked and believe the country owe them a living

[Oliver_W]

It already is. Not going to further education isn’t an option now. It’s college, sixth form or apprenticeship for 2 years regardless.

Did you know - college, sixth form, and apprenticeships have educational aspects to them?

These don't suit everyone, and despite doing a stirling course in fine art, some people still find it difficult to get a start in adult life.

[Kazanne]

And there we have it, the young need to die because the old don’t like them

Oh C'mon where does it say there the young have to die ? lets be sensible here, and i am sure lots of older people love youngsters, infact some of us have some, I think that the 'young' description is just because NS was aimed at the young, but no where did anyone say youngsters should die,that's just silly.

[Morgan.]

I am fairly sure that 16-18 year olds have no choice but to be in education these days? Thats what stepson says anyway as he was planning on getting an appreticeship after school but apparently he hasto pick between college and sixth form as they can't leave at 16 now.

I left at 16 and went straight into work. Only got paid 2.50 an hour mind but was totally loaded compared to friends who chose to stay in education, who were living on 30 quid a week (and only if their parents were not well off..if your parents had cash you didn't get the 30 a week).

Because of my experience, I don't think I agree with them having to stay in education til 18, that would have depressed me and it turned out that working straight from school was by far the best thing for me, that kids today don't have that option seems a bit unfair. Mind, I guess the jobs aren't really there for them to do straight from school these days..back then, you could literally walk out of a job into the next one. So again ,much more choice and employers couldn't get away with treating you like **** as you could just walk right out...as I did once. Walked out of a job at around 6pm, and had another by 7 and started that night :laugh:

That’s odd, when I left school it was between college, sixth form and apprenticeship because the latter did count as education. Unless they changed it since?

[Oliver_W]

I am fairly sure that 16-18 year olds have no choice but to be in education these days?
At the moment, yes. But obviously if additional things were in place, this would be adjusted.

[Vicky.]

It already is. Not going to further education isn’t an option now. It’s college, sixth form or apprenticeship for 2 years regardless.

:suspect: Stepson says hes not allowed to do the appreticeship that he wants, as been told he has to do 'normal' education instead. I wonder if part of the problem is that the apprenticeship he wants to do..has a half decent wage. Its something like 6 quid an hour, which would be classed as too good for a 16 year old..which again is utterly crap. Saying that they have to work for pennies, when proper wages are available.

Meanwhile, ****ing subway refuse to pay their staff properly and instead all their positions are 'apprenticeships' so they can get away with paying next to nothing. Apprenticeship in sandwich making man..give me strength..

[chuff me dizzy]

Oh C'mon where does it say there the young have to die ? lets be sensible here, and i am sure lots of older people love youngsters, infact some of us have some, I think that the 'young' description is just because NS was aimed at the young, but no where did anyone say youngsters should die,that's just silly.

My Mam used to say "They go in a boy and come out a man " This can only do good IMO

[Liam-]

Education isn't for everyone. Something should be in place for 16-18 year olds who need some purpose in their lives. But instead of National Service in the military, maybe something like Rory Stewart suggested, working on community projects etc.

In my eyes, what Rory has put on the table is just yet another way for businesses getting out of having to fork out another wage, why do that when they can just get a youngster in to do it for free?

[Twosugars]

I'd make old bigots volunteer at asylum seekers detention centres

[Liam-]

Oh C'mon where does it say there the young have to die ? lets be sensible here, and i am sure lots of older people love youngsters, infact some of us have some, I think that the 'young' description is just because NS was aimed at the young, but no where did anyone say youngsters should die,that's just silly.

Force someone into war, there’s a very high chance that they’ll die, therefore young people would be forced into a situation where they’re very likely to die, that’s it

[chuff me dizzy]

That’s odd, when I left school it was between college, sixth form and apprenticeship because the latter did count as education. Unless they changed it since?

My grandson has been told if he gets an apprenticeship he can leave at 16

[Morgan.]

Did you know - college, sixth form, and apprenticeships have educational aspects to them?

These don't suit everyone, and despite doing a stirling course in fine art, some people still find it difficult to get a start in adult life.

Sorry, I misread your comment. I thought you were saying that there was nothing in place at all for 16-18 year olds.

But tbh, I think people would find it harder getting a start in adult life at 16 with just GCSE’s, than at 18+ with A Levels and Degrees. Everywhere you look are desperate for people with further education - they’re not bothered what in but having those higher qualifications shows them you have what it takes to work in adult environments.

And besides - there’s lots of different options. I don’t do well with exams or studying, so sixth form wasn’t for me and I picked a vocational course at college where there’s 40% theory work and 60% practical. Now I’m looking at my next steps, I decided against uni because I don’t like that environment but I’m looking between an apprenticeship and a HND - both more relaxed environment.

So I find it hard to believe this system is forcing people to do something when there’s so many different options.

[Vicky.]

In my eyes, what Rory has put on the table is just yet another way for businesses getting out of having to fork out another wage, why do that when they can just get a youngster in to do it for free?

Thats all it ever is. Excuses to not pay properly, and not give proper workers rights.

Similar to 'workfare' schemes. Where, if these pisstaking employers just paid the staff as they should, then the person who is made to work for free, would be off the dole and have a decent bloody wage. But no, lets punish those who are out of work by giving employers a chance to get free workers, meanwhile the person with no job still has no job or wage, but is working 40 hours per week, and still being referred to as lazy scum because they have to claim JSA to survive, while doing a fulltime job. Ugh. This topic makes me rage so much, its vile, yet people support it because 'lazy scroungers'..meanwhile the lazy scroungers are doing more actual work than those calling them lazy scroungers.

[Oliver_W]

In my eyes, what Rory has put on the table is just yet another way for businesses getting out of having to fork out another wage, why do that when they can just get a youngster in to do it for free?

He wasn't talking about young people stacking shelves in Tesco, it was community projects. That's the sort of thing which councils usually do rather than businesses.

[Glenn.]

Thats all it ever is. Excuses to not pay properly, and not give proper workers rights.

Similar to 'workfare' schemes. Where, if these pisstaking employers just paid the staff as they should, then the person who is made to work for free, would be off the dole and have a decent bloody wage. But no, lets punish those who are out of work by giving employers a chance to get free workers, meanwhile the person with no job still has no job or wage, but is working 40 hours per week, and still being referred to as lazy scum because they have to claim JSA to survive, while doing a fulltime job. Ugh. This topic makes me rage so much, its vile, yet people support it because 'lazy scroungers'..meanwhile the lazy scroungers are doing more actual work than those calling them lazy scroungers.

Pretty much

[Liam-]

He wasn't talking about young people stacking shelves in Tesco, it was community projects. That's the sort of thing which councils usually do rather than businesses.

Community projects like what, litter picking, communal gardening, looking after old folk? All things that people could and should be paid to do, it’s just another way to vilify the young and get away with free labour

[Kazanne]

Force someone into war, there’s a very high chance that they’ll die, therefore young people would be forced into a situation where they’re very likely to die, that’s it

But, the bootcamp kinda thing I was talking about was not about sending anyone to war, I think thugs and criminal offenders would benefit from learning some manners and respect and how to behave and maybe learn a trade and work hard would be more beneficial that letting them roam feral or putting them in prison

[joeysteele]

Force someone into war, there’s a very high chance that they’ll die, therefore young people would be forced into a situation where they’re very likely to die, that’s it

I agree 100%

[Morgan.]

At college we are currently being encouraged to do ‘industry placements’.

We would basically go to a company for a week, complete work they need doing, and all for free. Now this in itself is a bad idea, as all we gain from it is a little experience. But in the field I’m in, filmmaking, it’s a tough job making an entire film or advert solo, and for free. There’s the casting, planning, filming, editing, sound production, rendering etc - and to do that alone for no money is just something I’d rather not do. Especially when we are so used to working in groups where everyone can focus on their strong suit.

When we are giving them a skill, talent, whatever you call it, it’s the kind of thing I expect to be paid for. Yes I’m just starting out, so I’m not asking for much as it’s not the same quality as an industry professional, but it’s passable work and not something that in the industry would be given as a freebie.

[Vicky.]

But, the bootcamp kinda thing I was talking about was not about sending anyone to war, I think thugs and criminal offenders would benefit from learning some manners and respect and how to behave and maybe learn a trade and work hard would be more beneficial that letting them roam feral or putting them in prison

That works in theory. However realistically, thugs and criminals are not really going to learn anything, regardless of how many bootcamp type things you put them through.

Also, I have no issue at all with people thinkng of ways to sort out criminals and that. Its when its just applied to 'the young' in general and its made out that 'the young' are all lazy ****ers who would benefit from being put on the frontline or something because some of them are lazy (just like older people..oddly enough. Lazy people will always exist in all sections of society) that it kind of gets my back up.

I mean, am not even part of 'the young' now, but I still feel defensive when older people just demonize them constantly. Especially given how much bloody harder it is for younger people these days compared to like..30-40 years back when those complaining about the young were young themselves. Back when you could buy a house with a years wage, and there were numerous jobs available. Its so much worse for the young' these days. Obviously not compared to..like war times, before someone tries being clever. But things today compared to when boomers were starting out...

I mean, as an example theres 'I had bought a house and had a job when I was 20' people..because those today struggle to get on the ladder, this mean they are lazy. No, its damn near impossible to buy a house when young today, unless your family has money, and if your family buys it for you, its not you earning it is it..

[Liam-]

But, the bootcamp kinda thing I was talking about was not about sending anyone to war, I think thugs and criminal offenders would benefit from learning some manners and respect and how to behave and maybe learn a trade and work hard would be more beneficial that letting them roam feral or putting them in prison

But with respect, that wasn’t the topic at hand, the question that was posed about specifically about national service, a scheme that specifically targeted young people just because they were born after a certain time, whether they’ve broke the law or not

[Liam-]

In my experience old people are the worst; rude, entitled, ignorant, what about those sorts of people, who just sit and knit all day? Should something be done about them? :think:

[Morgan.]

At college we are currently being encouraged to do ‘industry placements’.

We would basically go to a company for a week, complete work they need doing, and all for free. Now this in itself is a bad idea, as all we gain from it is a little experience. But in the field I’m in, filmmaking, it’s a tough job making an entire film or advert solo, and for free. There’s the casting, planning, filming, editing, sound production, rendering etc - and to do that alone for no money is just something I’d rather not do. Especially when we are so used to working in groups where everyone can focus on their strong suit.

When we are giving them a skill, talent, whatever you call it, it’s the kind of thing I expect to be paid for. Yes I’m just starting out, so I’m not asking for much as it’s not the same quality as an industry professional, but it’s passable work and not something that in the industry would be given as a freebie.

My first, and only, industry placement was for a local musician who wanted a music video but wouldn’t give me any direction. I made one. He didn’t like it. He didn’t use it. I re aimed unpaid, for what frankly was a waste of my time.

[bots]

In my experience old people are the worst; rude, entitled, ignorant, what about those sorts of people, who just sit and knit all day? Should something be done about them? :think:

you do realise that your words are 100% discriminatory

[Liam-]

you do realise that your words are 100% discriminatory

No more discriminatory than saying young people are lazy, lowlife scrowngers that sit and play Xbox all day

[Vicky.]

At college we are currently being encouraged to do ‘industry placements’.

We would basically go to a company for a week, complete work they need doing, and all for free. Now this in itself is a bad idea, as all we gain from it is a little experience. But in the field I’m in, filmmaking, it’s a tough job making an entire film or advert solo, and for free. There’s the casting, planning, filming, editing, sound production, rendering etc - and to do that alone for no money is just something I’d rather not do. Especially when we are so used to working in groups where everyone can focus on their strong suit.

When we are giving them a skill, talent, whatever you call it, it’s the kind of thing I expect to be paid for. Yes I’m just starting out, so I’m not asking for much as it’s not the same quality as an industry professional, but it’s passable work and not something that in the industry would be given as a freebie.

Yup, you are working, even though you are learning, and should be paid for it.

Its odd, when people think stuff lie this is ok because 'lazy young', should work for free, but then complain that they have to claim JSA or whatever to survive on. Like, you cannot logically agree with both forcing people to work for free, but also complain that they have no income.

I think even learning on the job stuff should be paid. I think workfare and the likes should be done away with and employers should be made to pay proper wages when people work for them, rather than picking from an endless pool of unfortunate people who have to do all the bad sides of working without the one upside, which is a wage and cash to do what you want. I also think employers such as subway, should be made to pay properly rather than using 'apprenticeship' as a way to pay half, or less. Its horrible and exploitative and absolutely should not be encouraged or allowed.

[Rob!]

My Mam used to say "They go in a boy and come out a man " This can only do good IMO

And you consider a “man” to be what exactly? Someone who’s prepared to put themselves in front of a fired gun?

[LukeB]

you do realise that your words are 100% discriminatory

Pretty much and it’s gross but you should pull up others for doing it too about the younger generation. Young and old are as bad as each other.

[Vicky.]

you do realise that your words are 100% discriminatory
Well I obviously agree 100% but its clearly a reply to the likes of...

No more discriminatory than saying young people are lazy, lowlife scrowngers that sit and play Xbox all day

This kind of thing. Which seems fine and dandy.

6 of one 2 3s of the other IMO.

[Liam-]

Obviously not all old people are that way, but I’ve crossed paths with way more rude old people than younger people, but that reply to my post kinda proves the point that you’re only allowed to discriminate against the young and it be acceptable

[user104658]

And you consider a “man” to be what exactly? Someone who’s prepared to put themselves in front of a fired gun?

Stoic, emotionally shut off, traumatised, unquestioning adherence to authority... one supposes.

[Rob!]

Stoic, emotionally shut off, traumatised, unquestioning adherence to authority... one supposes.

And someone who is sent out onto a battle field to sacrifice themselves because the leaders of two different countries want to show the other they have a bigger dick. It’s pointless and senseless.

At least the past two generations have grown up in a time where peace in their country is the norm. Why would anybody want to put themselves in a situation that threatens that?

[Rob!]

Of course lowlifes aren't going to be happy about having to actually do something with their idle lives apart from sitting on their X Box and computer all day !!

No, you don’t hate or generalise the young at all, do you?

[Kazanne]

And someone who is sent out onto a battle field to sacrifice themselves because the leaders of two different countries want to show the other they have a bigger dick. It’s pointless and senseless.

At least the past two generations have grown up in a time where peace in their country is the norm. Why would anybody want to put themselves in a situation that threatens that?

So would your answer be to get rid of all our military ?

[Twosugars]

In my experience old people are the worst; rude, entitled, ignorant, what about those sorts of people, who just sit and knit all day? Should something be done about them? :think:

Very true. Just sit on their arses and pronounce on everything

[Oliver_W]

At college we are currently being encouraged to do ‘industry placements’.

We would basically go to a company for a week, complete work they need doing, and all for free. Now this in itself is a bad idea, as all we gain from it is a little experience. But in the field I’m in, filmmaking, it’s a tough job making an entire film or advert solo, and for free. There’s the casting, planning, filming, editing, sound production, rendering etc - and to do that alone for no money is just something I’d rather not do. Especially when we are so used to working in groups where everyone can focus on their strong suit.

When we are giving them a skill, talent, whatever you call it, it’s the kind of thing I expect to be paid for. Yes I’m just starting out, so I’m not asking for much as it’s not the same quality as an industry professional, but it’s passable work and not something that in the industry would be given as a freebie.
You could go and be a runner for a week? Sure, it's the butt-end of the career ladder in film and tv, but it's where most have to start, and you'd get to see a lot of the different aspects of putting the thing together.

[Oliver_W]

In my experience old people are the worst; rude, entitled, ignorant, what about those sorts of people, who just sit and knit all day? Should something be done about them? :think:
Very true. Just sit on their arses and pronounce on everything

Maybe they should be retroactively made to work for several decades, pay taxes, and in some cases fight for the country ... or something?

[Twosugars]

Maybe they should be retroactively made to work for several decades, pay taxes, and in some cases fight for the country ... or something?

They should be less judgmental that's all

[Liam-]

Maybe they should be retroactively made to work for several decades, pay taxes, and in some cases fight for the country ... or something?

I’m not the one suggesting we force anyone born after 2000 into war zones, no-one should be forced into anything because of their age, that’s sort of the point I’m trying to make

[Kazanne]

I’m not the one suggesting we force anyone born after 2000 into war zones, no-one should be forced into anything because of their age, that’s sort of the point I’m trying to make

Its not about forcing them though,its those who commit crimes, and wonder round aimlessly commiting all sorts, we force them into prison so why not a boot camp style facility,

[Kazanne]

They should be less judgmental that's all

People need to take a good long look at themselves before they diss other people old or young.

[Liam-]

Its not about forcing them though,its those who commit crimes, and wonder round aimlessly commiting all sorts, we force them into prison so why not a boot camp style facility,

Once again, boot camp for criminals isn’t the subject that’s been put on the table,

[Vicky.]

Its not about forcing them though,its those who commit crimes, and wonder round aimlessly commiting all sorts, we force them into prison so why not a boot camp style facility,

Yeah you seem to be focussed on criminals which is a different convo really and something I could probably get on board with.

However the general thread, along with the answers to stuff, is about just..'the young'. No criminals, just younger people in general who are apparently all idle and do nowt but play on xboxes (an answer that kind of shocked me tbh)

One thing saying its for those who do wrong in society. Quite another for it to be about people who are just born after a certain date, and for seemingly no reason besides some being lazy!

[Morgan.]

You could go and be a runner for a week? Sure, it's the butt-end of the career ladder in film and tv, but it's where most have to start, and you'd get to see a lot of the different aspects of putting the thing together.

My point wasn’t that though. I’d happily be a runner. But those opportunities aren’t given us because we aren’t near any studios. The opportunities we get are make a film for someone for free.

[Nicky91]

no, the only thing what is a MUST should be breathing, eating, drinking, sleeping, going to toilet, and taking a shower


everything else is a choice

[chuff me dizzy]

you do realise that your words are 100% discriminatory

Got away with it yet again

[Tom4784]

My Mam used to say "They go in a boy and come out a man " This can only do good IMO

The older generations used to lock mentally ill and mentally disabled people in asylums and throw away the key, they didn't know their elbow from their arse when it came to knowing the effects forcing people into service could do to them.

Before anyone demands that they bring back national service, they should campaign to make sure our veterans are properly taken care of first. Too many veterans slip through the cracks into homelessness and are wrecked by PTSD and they don't get the help they need and National Service will only add to that. It's just a pointless exercise in spite by the older generations and nothing more.

As I said before, they'd be better putting all that money towards teaching teenagers how to function in the adult world and handle things like taxes, credit scores and banking and learning their rights and what they are entitled to. That will do more good then a pointless scheme just to make the older generations think they've got one over on the young.

[Morgan.]

no, the only thing what is a MUST should be breathing, eating, drinking, sleeping, going to toilet, and taking a shower


everything else is a choice

:clap1:

[Mitchell]

Nobody ever answered what would happen with those suffering with bad mental health issues and those that are disabled?

[chuff me dizzy]

So its ok for someone else to face a bullet for you ? but you wont do it for anyone else ? ...Wow ......just wow !!!

[Marsh.]

So its ok for someone else to face a bullet for you ? but you wont do it for anyone else ? ...Wow ......just wow !!!

So it's ok for you to dictate that a bunch of kids should but you wouldn't have to face any similar situation?

Wow... just wow!!!

[Greg!]

So its ok for someone else to face a bullet for you ? but you wont do it for anyone else ? ...Wow ......just wow !!!

Why exactly does anyone need to be taking bullets for anyone at the present moment in time? Is there a war on that threatens this country?

[AnnieK]

So its ok for someone else to face a bullet for you ? but you wont do it for anyone else ? ...Wow ......just wow !!!

Did your boys join the military? My only child is a boy and the thought if him being forced to do National Service sickens me. Should he choose that career path, I will support him but no child should be forced into it. He will make his own career choice when it comes to it. I would not force anyone to take a bullet for me unless they choose to

[Tom4784]

So its ok for someone else to face a bullet for you ? but you wont do it for anyone else ? ...Wow ......just wow !!!

It's okay for someone to make that choice for themselves, it's not okay to force them to by insisting they serve.

Also, as Marsh said, you want to force a bunch of young people into service so.... Why are you trying this angle when it's the same thing as what you are doing?

[Greg!]

Chuff if you’re that keen on fighting for your country why don’t you do it? Why don’t you get involved!

[LukeB]

Nobody ever answered what would happen with those suffering with bad mental health issues and those that are disabled?

They wouldn't be able to go would they? they can't join the army

Imagine sending someone with asthma and they have an attack in the middle of it all..They basically sending them off to die.

[Scarlett.]

So its ok for someone else to face a bullet for you ? but you wont do it for anyone else ? ...Wow ......just wow !!!

Um, isn't that exactly what supporters of national service want?

[Mitchell]

They wouldn't be able to go would they? they can't join the army

Imagine sending someone with asthma and they have an attack in the middle of it all..They basically sending them off to die.

Just some of the reasons that thankfully national service is a thing of the past :clap1:

[Kazanne]

Nobody ever answered what would happen with those suffering with bad mental health issues and those that are disabled?

I did Mitch,I said those people would not be called up.

[Mitchell]

I did Mitch,I said those people would not be called up.

I know you did Kaz, once again you’ve engaged in a debate rather than stated a few opinions and ran off, only respect for my MP ;) x

[chuff me dizzy]

I did Mitch,I said those people would not be called up.

That goes without saying doesn't it ?

[Marsh.]

Does it?

Your idea of X-Box National Service is extremely vague and generalising an entire generation.

There are bone idle thugs and wasters of all ages.

[Vicky.]

Was also suggested at some point that drug addicts should do this..which would be fantastic, especially if cold turkeying in the field!

[Mitchell]

Was also suggested at some point that drug addicts should do this..which would be fantastic, especially if cold turkeying in the field!

‘Teach them to be real men’ was a Facebook post I saw

[chuff me dizzy]

Was also suggested at some point that drug addicts should do this..which would be fantastic, especially if cold turkeying in the field!

Its clear you know absolutely nothing about how the armed forces work :joker:

[Vicky.]

Its clear you know absolutely nothing about how the armed forces work :joker:

:joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker: Ah well.

[Mitchell]

:joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker: Ah well.

:joker:

[Rob!]

Does it?

Your idea of X-Box National Service is extremely vague and generalising an entire generation.

There are bone idle thugs and wasters of all ages.

Like older keyboard warriors who spend their time posting hate on the internet for example? :hehe:

[LukeB]

‘Teach them to be real men’ was a Facebook post I saw


should have sent them the link to sign up.

[Mitchell]

should have sent them the link to sign up.

:joker: they’d fit in