Do you trust 'facts'?

[Wizard.]

Do you trust that space is real? You've never seen it. Do you trust our governments when they tell you things? You wouldn't trust a stranger on the street, so why them? I have a hard time just believing something is real just because people of authority say that it is right. We just go along with what we're told and do not question it and I find it really strange. But the world is not flat, obvs.

[arista]

Yes I trust facts
Like live on our TV screens in the UK
2001 9/11.

A fact that Extreme Muslims
could destroy USA
and stop Planes from Flying

[user104658]

Do you trust that space is real? You've never seen it.

I mean you can literally see Jupiter with a £100 telescope so you can see at least some of space :umm2:... I guess you mean deep space though? But you can also see stars and galaxies so I'd need some sort of viable explanation for what I'm seeing (and also why anyone would lie about it) to not... err... believe in space.

Do you trust our governments when they tell you things?

lol no

You wouldn't trust a stranger on the street, so why them?

I'd trust the average stranger on the street more than any government tbqfh.

I have a hard time just believing something is real just because people of authority say that it is right.

Good, you shouldn't.

We just go along with what we're told and do not question it

Not all of us do, and none of us should :hee:

[Ammi]

...I believe for every drop of rain that falls ...a flower grows...

[Ammi]

...I believe that somewhere in the darkest night a candle glows...

[Ammi]

...I believe for everyone that goes astray...someone will come to show the way...

[joeysteele]

I go along with facts as presented as such unless I know or can prove otherwise.
Immaterial of what the facts are relating to.

Such as some do not believe humans have walked on the moon.
Yes I believe that.
No way I can disprove it.

Then I keep an open mind on lots if other issues, the religion and faith.
Religion and faith I see as 2 different things.

Yes, overall I do believe things presented as facts unless I have good reason for doubting same or able to disprove it.

[Ammi]

...I BELIEVE...

[joeysteele]

...I believe for everyone that goes astray...someone will come to show the way...

A very powerful song that.

[user104658]

...I believe for every drop of rain that falls ...a flower grows...

I don't think that's accurate Ammi :suspect:

...I believe that somewhere in the darkest night a candle glows...

That seems statistically probable.

...I believe for everyone that goes astray...someone will come to show the way...

I wish that was true :(

[Ammi]

..I believe every time ToySoldier posts this smilie http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/smilies2/frown.gif..an angel gets a frown wrinkle...

[Ammi]

...now look what you made me do...that doesn’t follow the lyrics at all...

[bots]

One can never truly trust facts to be 100% accurate and the scale can be from absolute bollocks, grain of truth, tells half the story, to pretty accurate.

One has to evaluate the source of the facts together with independent verification to decide on accuracy.

[Jessica.]

Are you a flat earther now, Riley?

[Liam-]

Scientific facts that are proven through decades of scientific research? Sure
Facts like the police and government saying something didn’t happen, when in reality it did? Very little trust

[Ammi]

...with ‘fake news’ and ‘clickbait’ etc..it’s hard to trust any written word atm...

[arista]

One can never truly trust facts to be 100% accurate and the scale can be from absolute bollocks, grain of truth, tells half the story, to pretty accurate.

One has to evaluate the source of the facts together with independent verification to decide on accuracy.



100% accurate
The World Trade Buildings
Collapsed on World Wide Live TV

[Calderyon]

Earth is not flat. And space is real.

[Oliver_W]

7/11 was a part time job!!1111!!!

[Ant.]

It's not that I don't believe Space is real. But I wonder why the oxygen from Earth doesn't just rise into space? Oh wait it does and they only say it doesn't to discourage people from going to space themselves!

[Vicky.]

I'd trust the average stranger on the street more than any government tbqfh.


Aint that the truth..

I tend to question near all 'news' these days, as the left wing rags have became as bad as the right wing rags for twisting stories so far beyond the truth that they are basically brand new stories made up on the spot. Need to read both sides, which gives me a headache wading through all the 'MUSLIMS!' but 'bigots!' stuff to try and get the full story of something, which usually turns out the actual story is that someone blew their nose on someone else or something, made out to be a murder by one side, and a suicide by the other.

Sciencey stuff though, will defer to the experts :p

[Livia]

Check everything. That's my advice.

[Tom4784]

You can't compare what is essentially a person's (or organisation or government's) take on something to scientific fact. The former is driven by agenda and is never really a fact and the latter is irrefutable and factual.

People disregarding facts is why antivaxxers and flat earthers exist.

[Twosugars]

You can't compare what is essentially a person's (or organisation or government's) take on something to scientific fact. The former is driven by agenda and is never really a fact and the latter is irrefutable and factual.

People disregarding facts is why antivaxxers and flat earthers exist.

Was about to say exactly that.

Never compare science facts with politics

[user104658]

The former is driven by agenda and is never really a fact and the latter is irrefutable and factual.

This is actually not how science works at all... scientific theorems shift, change, evolve and come in and out of general consensus constantly. There's no such thing as irrefutable science... in fact, being available for criticism and peer review is an essential part OF science, and considering any scientific observation to be "unquestionable fact" isn't science, but dogma, and about as unscientific as it gets.

[Tom4784]

This is actually not how science works at all... scientific theorems shift, change, evolve and come in and out of general consensus constantly. There's no such thing as irrefutable science... in fact, being available for criticism and peer review is an essential part OF science, and considering any scientific observation to be "unquestionable fact" isn't science, but dogma, and about as unscientific as it gets.

But in terms of 'does space exist', that **** is irrefutable. I'm talking about baseline facts that form the backbone of our reality, the earth is not flat, oxygen is a thing even though we can't see it, space is vast and exists etc.

[user104658]

But in terms of 'does space exist', that **** is irrefutable. I'm talking about baseline facts that form the backbone of our reality, the earth is not flat, oxygen is a thing even though we can't see it, space is vast and exists etc.

Well yes. Or 99.9% I suppose. Theoretically, every aspect of perception is just neurons firing and everything could be an illusion, we might be in a huge simulation in an existence that bears absolutely no similarity to this one, and the entire concept of the universe could be the imaginings of the great Lizard Race who control the system from their giant flat earth that floats through a neon cloud of energy.

... I mean it's not likely but still...

[Wizard.]

Are you a flat earther now, Riley?

No, I'm not but what can you believe? Until I see something with my own eyes then I can't believe anything really.

[Twosugars]

Well yes. Or 99.9% I suppose. Theoretically, every aspect of perception is just neurons firing and everything could be an illusion, we might be in a huge simulation in an existence that bears absolutely no similarity to this one, and the entire concept of the universe could be the imaginings of the great Lizard Race who control the system from their giant flat earth that floats through a neon cloud of energy.

... I mean it's not likely but still...

don't give people ideas TS :nono:

[user104658]

don't give people ideas TS :nono:

It's basic Descartes 2S; "Cogito, ergo sum". There is no such thing as objective fact beyond the fact of one's own existence. Everything else is a balance of probabilities.

[Twosugars]

No, I'm not but what can you believe? Until I see something with my own eyes then I can't believe anything really.
Earth is not flat, you have seen it with your own eyes: the horizon
if earth was flat you could see things as far as your telescope would allow you
earth would not fall off beyond the horizon
and bc it does, it is curved
and bc nobody experienced end of it, it must curve into an infinite shape like a ball

[Wizard.]

you have seen it with your own eyes: horizon
if earth was flat you could see things as far as your telescope would allow you
earth would not fall off beyond the horizon
and bc it does, it is curved
and bc nobody experienced end of it, it must curve into an infinite shape like a ball

Well yeah I mean if I had to choose between believing in a flat earth or a round earth then I would choose round but then again who says it's any shape and we're not just living in some weird polygon reality?

[Tom4784]

Well yes. Or 99.9% I suppose. Theoretically, every aspect of perception is just neurons firing and everything could be an illusion, we might be in a huge simulation in an existence that bears absolutely no similarity to this one, and the entire concept of the universe could be the imaginings of the great Lizard Race who control the system from their giant flat earth that floats through a neon cloud of energy.

... I mean it's not likely but still...

That sounds more like existential philosophy than anything scientific though.

[user104658]

Earth is not flat, you have seen it with your own eyes: the horizon
if earth was flat you could see things as far as your telescope would allow you
earth would not fall off beyond the horizon
and bc it does, it is curved
and bc nobody experienced end of it, it must curve into an infinite shape like a ball

Or the Lizard servers can only render a landscape up to a certain distance, and the supposed "horizon" is simply the maximum draw distance of the simulation. :suspect:

[Tom4784]

Well yeah I mean if I had to choose between believing in a flat earth or a round earth then I would choose round but then again who says it's any shape and we're not just living in some weird polygon reality?

Pretty much everywhere bar the bottom of the ocean has been documented at this point. If the earth was anything other than what we know it is, we would have discovered that truth by now.

[bots]

there is empirical science and theoretical science, both completely different. Theoretical science is based on models that approximate to defining a behaviour and by definition are not factual.

[Twosugars]

Well yeah I mean if I had to choose between believing in a flat earth or a round earth then I would choose round but then again who says it's any shape and we're not just living in some weird polygon reality?

Or the Lizard servers can only render a landscape up to a certain distance, and the supposed "horizon" is simply the maximum draw distance of the simulation. :suspect:

We can and should speculate about the wheres and the whys behind the observeable reality. But the fact remains that that observeable reality can be tested repeatedly and rendered as certain rules and facts. For the benefit of our functioning within it, we need to acknowledge those rules and facts as valid parameters of it.

[user104658]

That sounds more like existential philosophy than anything scientific though.

Existentialism isn't inherently unscientific, though, unless you disagree with the premise that all perception is ultimately experienced internally. If you accept that (and you have to, if you believe in the basics of neuropsychology above spiritualism).

If you accept that our entire perception of every aspect of reality is, to quote Mr Morpheus, "electrical signals interpreted by our brain" - this conversation, the soup you just ate, the vast complexities of every aspect of our understanding of the universe - then it logically follows that any or all of those signals could be false or manipulated... the only thing that is certain is that those signals exist in some form, and we are aware of them and have cognisance, and so with that being the case we do know that ONE thing is objective fact; simply that something must exist to ponder existance ("I am aware of myself as a thinking being, therefore at least one thinking being exists").

Obviously it's VERY highly probable that existence (as far as we can experience it) does exist in more or less the form we understand, and we can go forward from there, it is nonetheless a probability and not an objective fact. Every aspect of existence is theorem. You won't find any real scientist (who isn't a hack) describing any scientific discovery as unquestionable fact... just a series of ongoing observations that makes something increasingly likely with each repetition.

[user104658]

there is empirical science and theoretical science, both completely different. Theoretical science is based on models that approximate to defining a behaviour and by definition are not factual.

Empirical science is only at the "outlying limits" of probability, though. It's science that follows from mathematical and logical rules so as to be functionally irrefutable and thus useful. Even mathematical and physical rules start to fall apart in extreme science.

[Twosugars]

functionally irrefutable then
that will do for me :p

[user104658]

functionally irrefutable then
that will do for me :p

Yes 2S, good... you may yet be of some use to the lizard hive mind when the time comes...

[Livia]

This is actually not how science works at all... scientific theorems shift, change, evolve and come in and out of general consensus constantly. There's no such thing as irrefutable science... in fact, being available for criticism and peer review is an essential part OF science, and considering any scientific observation to be "unquestionable fact" isn't science, but dogma, and about as unscientific as it gets.

Great post, TS.

[Twosugars]

Yes 2S, good... you may yet be of some use to the lizard hive mind when the time comes...

Will be sad tho to see you go into recycling :bawling:

[Oliver_W]

Earth is not flat, you have seen it with your own eyes: the horizon
if earth was flat you could see things as far as your telescope would allow you
earth would not fall off beyond the horizon
and bc it does, it is curved
and bc nobody experienced end of it, it must curve into an infinite shape like a ball
I tried to see as far as I could through a telescope, but buildings or scenery got in the way, so I couldn't see the drop off point.
People have experienced the end of it, and they fell off the edge.

For reals though, I'd love to see a reality show where flat-Earthers try to find the edge of the world.

[Withano]

Depends who tells me them. Yes I believe in space because telescopes and satellites, don’t really trust most politicians, would take a stranger case by case.

[Twosugars]

I tried to see as far as I could through a telescope, but buildings or scenery got in the way, so I couldn't see the drop off point.
People have experienced the end of it, and they fell off the edge.

For reals though, I'd love to see a reality show where flat-Earthers try to find the edge of the world.

There was this guy recently in America who tried disproving that earth is round. Invested money into it and all. Wonder what happened to him

[Oliver_W]

There was this guy recently in America who tried disproving that earth is round. Invested money into it and all. Wonder what happened to him

He tripped over the circumfence surrounding the world, and is now floating in space :(

[Twosugars]

He tripped over the circumfence surrounding the world, and is now floating in space :(

Hope hes satisfied with that proof