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Why does everyone need labels nowadays?! I don't see a gay man, i see a man. Why is somebodies sexual orientation constantly thrown in my face by the mainstream media, are we not all equal?
Apparently im a 'sis white male'. However i do not wish to be judged on race and sexual orientation. Judge me on the kind of human being i am, thanks.
People's identity matters
Livia
01-07-2019, 12:33 PM
I have a lot of friends who are gay in real life and they're just friends like any other. Most of my gay friends are professional, most are in long term relationships or are married, they are popular at work, have active social lives. They don't let the fact that they're gay single them out from the rest of society and have a wide range of friends, both gay and straight. They are not defined by their homosexuality, it's just one facet of them.
I understand that there is more to be done to end homophobia and bigotry towards gay people and I understand the reasons for Pride month. But the way things have changed for gay people in the last fifty years I'm hoping that in another fifty years we won't need Pride... but they'll have it just for fun.
user104658
01-07-2019, 12:36 PM
You can judge and be judged on an individual basis at the same time as recognising and accepting that different specific groups face different specific issues. I agree that no one should be entirely defined by one or a few specific traits - their gender, their sexuality, their profession, their nationality - however it's a bit foolish to argue that these things should be ignored entirely as aspects of identity.
Liam-
01-07-2019, 12:39 PM
Because while people are just people, their sexuality is a part of who they are, it matters, it definitely shouldn’t be the main identifying characteristic, but it matters.
Also, the term ‘shoving it down our throats’ always irks me, especially considering how the majority of tv shows, adverts and magazines have straight folk and their relationships all over them on a daily basis but aren’t ever talked about that way, it screams ‘keep it hodden’
Why does everyone need labels nowadays?! I don't see a gay man, i see a man. Why is somebodies sexual orientation constantly thrown in my face by the mainstream media, are we not all equal?
Apparently im a 'sis white male'. However i do not wish to be judged on race and sexual orientation. Judge me on the kind of human being i am, thanks.
...I think that’s exactly the thing though...there are those who have been judged by society on race and on sexuality ...and less so on the human beings they are...and that place of ‘equality’ has not yet been reached by all in their views and in their prejudices...sadly, homosexuality still does not have equality to heterosexuality in all aspects of society ....
Livia
01-07-2019, 12:45 PM
I have noticed that suddenly there are a lot of lesbian couples having babies on various TV adverts. I think the sudden rush to be 'right on' means advertisers overdo it. So they are currently overdoing the homosexual couples on adverts, but it will calm down and slip into a kind of normality. It's like every couple on an advert right now is mixed race to the point where mixed race couples are being overrepresented. People are struggling to get it right and please everyone. And like I said earlier, in the future your sexuality will be as unimportant as the colour of your eyes.
Because while people are just people, their sexuality is a part of who they are, it matters, it definitely shouldn’t be the main identifying characteristic, but it matters.
Also, the term ‘shoving it down our throats’ always irks me, especially considering how the majority of tv shows, adverts and magazines have straight folk and their relationships all over them on a daily basis but aren’t ever talked about that way, it screams ‘keep it hodden’
TV shows, adverts, films are massively diverse. They reflect real life now more than ever.
People's identity matters
Isn't that why we have names?
arista
01-07-2019, 12:51 PM
Could you be anymore inflammatory?
People aren’t ‘on a warpath’ people are celebrating their identity and fighting a fight that still needs to be fought
They look like , they are on a Warpath,
Get out of our way......... its LGBT Day
I can see how it would wind some people up. Equally, there were many on here triggered by a "straight" pride :laugh:
If people want to moan, they will
...who told you to get out of their way, Arista..?...
Livia
01-07-2019, 12:57 PM
I can see how it would wind some people up. Equally, there were many on here triggered by a "straight" pride :laugh:
If people want to moan, they will
LOL.... so true.
arista
01-07-2019, 12:58 PM
:facepalm:
All I want
is to able to get to a meeting
not a Blocked route
because of a LGBT day
What about when people protested climate change in the streets the other week?
What about when people protested climate change in the streets the other week?
...climate change this and climate change that..?...
arista
01-07-2019, 01:05 PM
What about when people protested climate change in the streets the other week?
Yes they need to be arrested
removed
...climate change this and climate change that..?...
:joker:
What about when people protested climate change in the streets the other week?
...climate change this and climate change that..?...
Sexuality and climate change is not comparable.
Sexuality and climate change is not comparable.
I'm referring to Arista complaining about road blocks for LGBT events, despite there being road blocks for other occasions
Why did you delete the "name" comment?
Sexuality and climate change is not comparable.
...surely neither is a sexuality who has never felt prejudice and a sexuality which has ..?...
...surely neither is a sexuality who has never felt prejudice and a sexuality which has ..?...
:clap1:
...surely neither is a sexuality who has never felt prejudice and a sexuality which has ..?...
So by labelling oneself 'gay' is achieving what exactly? I wouldn't argue prejudice still exists but i feel energy and resources are very much misused when it comes to gay rights in the western world. Isn't the whole argument to educate the world on how one shouldn't be defined by their sexuality?
Anyway there's people out there that struggle with their identity regardless of whether or not they want to be judged for their sexuality alone (and I've never met anyone who wants to be judged or defined solely by their sexuality - they want to be treated at equals, but that's not really always possible even today).
Homosexuality is considered 'different'. You will read people's coming out stories about how they're conditioned to think that being attracted to the same sex is 'bad' since they aren't exposed to it in the media (although representation is improving) and offensive slurs are used far too often. So a person whose LGBT (and even straight people who explored their sexuality before realising they are in fact straight) don't really have a good time figuring themselves out. And celebrities coming out in the news are an important topic to people. Personally I am not affected by coming out stories since I am comfortable, but for a twelve year old boy seeing that a guy they saw in their favourite film is gay will validate them and help them while they figure out their identity
I truly like to believe that people are entitled to their own opinion but I don't think people can enforce people to not express their sexuality when that label can represent their struggles and their life. As I said, I didn't struggle with my sexuality - but people have, and circumstances during their process of figuring themselves out and circumstances following their coming out (being disowned, homophobia, etc) matter. If people wish to identify as gay since they lost and hurt so much in getting to a place where they can call themselves that, I don't think anyone has the right to complain that they can drop in the fact they're gay every so often, no matter what the reason
So by labelling oneself 'gay' is achieving what exactly? I wouldn't argue prejudice still exists but i feel energy and resources are very much misused when it comes to gay rights in the western world. Isn't the whole argument to educate the world on how one shouldn't be defined by their sexuality?
It's allowing a person to realise they're not alone and are part of a community. It's achieving validation. How do people calling themselves gay affect you?
Prejudice doesn't exist? How doesn't it? Was the fact I was called a ****** for being on a date with a guy not count as prejudice? Is the fact people are disowned and kicked out of their houses for being gay even in this country not qualify as prejudice? I'm really trying to understand your logic here - prejudice exists in the western world.
But people ARE defined by their sexuality. Their sexuality can represent years of their life figuring themselves out, bullying, and discrimination. That changes people and if people didn't want to be defined by that, trust me, they wouldn't.
It's allowing a person to realise they're not alone and are part of a community. It's achieving validation. How do people calling themselves gay affect you?
Prejudice doesn't exist? How doesn't it? Was the fact I was called a ****** for being on a date with a guy not count as prejudice? Is the fact people are disowned and kicked out of their houses for being gay even in this country not qualify as prejudice? I'm really trying to understand your logic here - prejudice exists in the western world.
But people ARE defined by their sexuality. Their sexuality can represent years of their life figuring themselves out, bullying, and discrimination. That changes people and if people didn't want to be defined by that, trust me, they wouldn't.
Re-read my post.
So by labelling oneself 'gay' is achieving what exactly? I wouldn't argue prejudice still exists but i feel energy and resources are very much misused when it comes to gay rights in the western world. Isn't the whole argument to educate the world on how one shouldn't be defined by their sexuality?
...sexuality is not a label though, it’s a descriptive of just a part of who someone is ...and for some it’s a very important part because it’s something there has not always been acceptance of...(...and still isn’t always..)...and something the laws have not allowed for either...I’m not sure how we’ll ever get to the stage of ‘educating the world on how one shouldn’t be defined by their sexuality’...I mean even the starting point of that..?...while their is still very much a mindset of it not being covered is schools, in children’s stories and children’s TV etc...in the same proportion of a romantic heterosexuality...
Re-read my post.
But my point still stands. The money used in the 'western world' contributes to supporting LGBT people through charity and accommodation for people who have been disowned. You can argue some.of the money spent could be used elsewhere, but not 'very much', surely?
I know, it’s not like the straight people of the world get their moment in the spotlight for putting up with all the murder, hatred and general segregation they have to put up with because of who they fall in love with is it? So unfair.
But my point still stands. The money used in the 'western world' contributes to supporting LGBT people through charity and accommodation for people who have been disowned. You can argue some.of the money spent could be used elsewhere, but not 'very much', surely?
Oh i agree, i've had read stories of teens who have been disowned by parents, family members for being gay (mostly due to religious beliefs) so i'm all for charities helping those who are struggling. However, when i say 'resources' im more referring to the thousands of people marching through the streets of London, Brighton etc celebrating their sexuality. On the whole people in the UK are perfectly fine with another's sexual orientation, prejudice does and will always exist to a certain extent, that's a fact of life unfortunately i just wouldn't waste my time on people who don't accept me for who i am. However, the middle east is a different story altogether and that's where gay rights should be fought for, that's where the thousands should go and show it's 'ok to be gay'. People are treated horrendously in certain countries due to sexual orientation.
Tom4784
01-07-2019, 01:51 PM
People who see someone celebrating who they are or celebrating how far their kind has come as them 'throwing it in their faces' often don't realise that it isn't about them and do everything they can to make it about them.
If someone sees Pride as an attack on themselves then they are the ones with the issue, if you have a problem with gay representation, then look the other way. No one is forcing you to participate and no one is forcing you to oppose it and it will happen regardless of your views because the LGBT are becoming more accepted and mainstream every day and people who dislike that have just got to get over their bigotry.
Let those of us who this world has often opposed our very existence have our month and be grateful you don't have to fight the battles we have for equal rights.
I know, it’s not like the straight people of the world get their moment in the spotlight for putting up with all the murder, hatred and general segregation they have to put up with because of who they fall in love with is it? So unfair.
Actually there are plenty of straight people who have been put through hell because of who they've fallen in love with. Social class, race, education, religion etc...
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 01:52 PM
It is laughable when the "norm" is heterosexual that you feature a few homosexuals to balance it out or a couple of lesbians in an advert and it's "shoving it down our throats" or "overdoing it".
Read your own posts for why some gay people might feel the need to speak a little louder about who they are. They're constantly made to feel like they have to keep it hidden or just not mention it.
People who see someone celebrating who they are or celebrating how far their kind has come as them 'throwing it in their faces' often don't realise that it isn't about them and do everything they can to make it about them.
If someone sees Pride as an attack on themselves then they are the ones with the issue, if you have a problem with gay representation, then look the other way. No one is forcing you to participate and no one is forcing you to oppose it and it will happen regardless of your views because the LGBT are becoming more accepted and mainstream every day and people who dislike that have just got to get over their bigotry.
Let those of us who this world has often opposed our very existence have our month and be grateful you don't have to fight the battles we have for equal rights.
My point has been completely lost here.
I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?
Nicky91
01-07-2019, 01:59 PM
My point has been completely lost here.
I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?
equality is about everyone being treated the same way
equality is about everyone being treated the same way
Oh ffs.
That's my whole point :facepalm:
Oh i agree, i've had read stories of teens who have been disowned by parents, family members for being gay (mostly due to religious beliefs) so i'm all for charities helping those who are struggling. However, when i say 'resources' im more referring to the thousands of people marching through the streets of London, Brighton etc celebrating their sexuality. On the whole people in the UK are perfectly fine with another's sexual orientation, prejudice does and will always exist to a certain extent, that's a fact of life unfortunately i just wouldn't waste my time on people who don't accept me for who i am. However, the middle east is a different story altogether and that's where gay rights should be fought for, that's where the thousands should go and show it's 'ok to be gay'. People are treated horrendously in certain countries due to sexual orientation.
If you're referring to Pride, I will agree that, to some extent, it's become a shell of what it was - with some people choosing to go to Manchester Pride because of Ariana Grande's presence and whatnot. But I'm that note, I'm curious as to what money could do for the Middle East? I've read news articles of how activists have brought about change in such countries but can money truly change the laws there? I am not by any means saying money invested in such causes is money wasted - not to any degree, but likewise the money would not be wasted here (not saying you think the money would be wasted here, that is).
I think money will always be an issue. Would the billion of dollars spent on the Lord of the Rings TV series be better spent elsewhere? Almost most definitely. And while it can be argued Pride (if that is what you're referring to) could be better spent elsewhere and is, in some cases, not what it set out to be, Pride does increase awareness and celebrates the LGBT community - it is not necessarily money down the drain. I do, however, agree for a push for more activism in the Middle East, and more money should be invested in it
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 02:06 PM
Oh ffs.
That's my whole point :facepalm:
As long as they don't mention the fact they are gay?
My point has been completely lost here.
I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?
But is equality not recognising differences and accepting them? I understand the sentiment, but can we truly see a disabled person and an able person as equal? Would equality not be accommodating to people's differences so that they are included, I.e. making a job more suitable for a disabled person?
Tom4784
01-07-2019, 02:07 PM
My point has been completely lost here.
I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?
Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.
We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.
Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.
Swan, I appreciate your sentiment but your original post seems to focus more on the fact people are proud of their identity and are open about it
Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.
We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.
Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.
:clap1: you articulated that perfectly
Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.
We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.
Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.
Are you saying by not caring about a persons sexuality that im not all for diversity?
I honesty thought the whole 'movement' was to not judge or to be judged, yet you are judging me for my opinion.
If a person kicks a dog, to me they are a piece of sh*t, a bad human being, i wouldn't ask if they were gay or not it wouldn't matter, they're still a piece of sh*t to me.
It's almost like if someone is not thinking the way you think they should you'll go in for the attack, it's worrying ironic. I am not attacking you for being gay, quite the opposite actually.
Are you saying by not caring about a persons sexuality that im not all for diversity?
I honesty thought the whole 'movement' was to not judge or to be judged, yet you are judging me for my opinion.
If a person kicks a dog, to me they are a piece of sh*t, a bad human being, i wouldn't ask if they were gay or not it wouldn't matter, they're still a piece of sh*t to me.
It's almost like if someone is not thinking the way you think they should you'll go in for the attack, it's worrying ironic. I am not attacking you for being gay, quite the opposite actually.
:facepalm:
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 02:19 PM
But you clearly DO care about people's sexuality if you feel gay people are "throwing it in your face" by simply being out and proud.
Are you not judging people for choosing to use their identity?
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 02:22 PM
"I don't like labels. I see a man, not a sexuality."
This statement should mean you treat everyone the same regardless of sexuality. But given your other posts what it actually means is you'd rather gay people don't tell you they're gay or at least make it known in their actions (idk like holding hands with their partner). It is NOT the same thing and you getting defensive about it will not change the homophobia in your posts in this thread.
So a sexuality is an identity now?
Elliot
01-07-2019, 02:23 PM
people only have to make it clear they're gay because heterosexuality is assumed
So a sexuality is an identity now?
It's what people identify as so yes?
Also why are you being so pedantic and ignoring half the points made? :suspect:
"I don't like labels. I see a man, not a sexuality."
This statement should mean you treat everyone the same regardless of sexuality. But given your other posts what it actually means is you'd rather gay people don't tell you they're gay or at least make it known in their actions (idk like holding hands with their partner). It is NOT the same thing and you getting defensive about it will not change the homophobia in your posts in this thread.
I am not homophobic. Im defending my opinion.
If introduced to someone and they felt the need to tell me they were gay i would simply shrug and say 'that's cool'.
I am not homophobic. Im defending my opinion.
If introduced to someone and they felt the need to tell me they were gay i would simply shrug and say 'that's cool'.
So why make a thread in which the first line is, "why does everyone need labels nowadays?!"
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 02:30 PM
I am not homophobic. Im defending my opinion.
If introduced to someone and they felt the need to tell me they were gay i would simply shrug and say 'that's cool'.
If that were so you wouldn't accuse it of being "thrown in your face".
Funny how you've never thought that about heterosexuality.
Tom4784
01-07-2019, 02:31 PM
Are you saying by not caring about a persons sexuality that im not all for diversity?
I honesty thought the whole 'movement' was to not judge or to be judged, yet you are judging me for my opinion.
If a person kicks a dog, to me they are a piece of sh*t, a bad human being, i wouldn't ask if they were gay or not it wouldn't matter, they're still a piece of sh*t to me.
It's almost like if someone is not thinking the way you think they should you'll go in for the attack, it's worrying ironic. I am not attacking you for being gay, quite the opposite actually.
Diversity does not exist if we are all the same.
Diversity and equality is acknowledging someone's differences yet accepting them for those differences and considering them equal. You don't want to be considered equals to us, you want to scrub our differences away, scrub our history away, scrub the sacrifice away. That is not equality or diversity, that would be us surrendering to your false equality by giving up a part of ourselves, living in a way that's pleasing to you, making sure we don't throw our biness, gayness or transness 'in your face'.
I am responding to your opinion, opinions are a two way street, we can put them out there into the world and people can respond to them. If that is something that upsets you then perhaps the debate part of the forum is not for you. You're also wrong, the LGBT have been judged since time immemorial, we don't care if you judge us we just want to be free to live how we choose without fear.
I.... Don't see the point of that dog analogy or it's relevance tbh.
So you see an opposing opinion as an attack, that speaks more to the fact that you can't accept opposing opinions so you see any discussion as an attack on you. At the end of the day, you are virtue signalling. You're not for diveristy, you are for everyone fitting into your world view and not throwing their differences in your face. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it just as much as you are to yours. Instead of acting like a victim that's under attack from the mean ol' LGBT whose identity you want to erase, argue back. Speak. Don't just go 'wahh! you're attacking me!'
So why make a thread in which the first line is, "why does everyone need labels nowadays?!"
Because i don't understand why people feel the need to identify as anything, you're labelling yourself when doing so.
It's my personal opinion that sexuality, race and gender doesn't defy a person. It's how they act as a human being. Im not saying people shouldn't be proud of who they are, im proud of how i was brought up and to treat everyone equally.
It doesn't matter to me if you're gay or straight, thus the labelling of such seems over the top to me.
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 02:39 PM
You don't see why people feel the need to identify?
:think: Are you straight? If so, that's a part of your identity. Your identity being all the many facets of your life and personality all together.
A gay person identifies as gay because they are gay.
You're literally saying "I'm fine with gays as long as they don't use the word gay or force me to endure it in public."
Because i don't understand why people feel the need to identify as anything, you're labelling yourself when doing so.
It's my personal opinion that sexuality, race and gender doesn't defy a person. It's how they act as a human being. Im not saying people shouldn't be proud of who they are, im proud of how i was brought up and to treat everyone equally.
It doesn't matter to me if you're gay or straight, thus the labelling of such seems over the top to me.
I just don't really think that "sexuality, gender, and race don't define a person" is an opinion. People are defined by the discrimination and journey they face due to homophobia, sexism, and racism
Niamh.
01-07-2019, 02:40 PM
Because i don't understand why people feel the need to identify as anything, you're labelling yourself when doing so.
It's my personal opinion that sexuality, race and gender doesn't defy a person. It's how they act as a human being. Im not saying people shouldn't be proud of who they are, im proud of how i was brought up and to treat everyone equally.
It doesn't matter to me if you're gay or straight, thus the labelling of such seems over the top to me.
I mean it's pretty necessary in a practical sense though :laugh:
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - No thanks
Woman - Why not?
Man - I'm not allowed say
I mean it's pretty necessary in a practical sense though :laugh:
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - No thanks
Woman - Why not?
Man - I'm not allowed say
Yeah that's fair enough, however the conversation should end -
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - No thanks
Woman - Ok fair enough
Sexuality shouldn't need to be justified.
Niamh.
01-07-2019, 02:48 PM
Yeah that's fair enough, however the conversation should end -
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - No thanks
Woman - Ok fair enough
Sexuality shouldn't need to be justified.
Oh fgs, can't we even talk about sexuality now? Maybe the conversation would go like this because the guy would want to let the woman feel better and not so rejected?
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - Oh I'm gay, sorry, but thanks for asking
:p
Tom4784
01-07-2019, 02:48 PM
Yeah that's fair enough, however the conversation should end -
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - No thanks
Woman - Ok fair enough
Sexuality shouldn't need to be justified.
It's easy to say that when your sexuality is presumed though, when you are considered the default.
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 02:49 PM
Yeah that's fair enough, however the conversation should end -
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - No thanks
Woman - Ok fair enough
Sexuality shouldn't need to be justified.
You see this is exactly what makes an issue of sexuality. Not people talking about it or being open about it but this contrived way of hiding it because some delicate little flower is repulsed by gay people.
Tom4784
01-07-2019, 02:50 PM
Oh fgs, can't we even talk about sexuality now? Maybe the conversation would go like this because the guy would want to let the woman feel better and not so rejected?
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - Oh I'm gay, sorry, but thanks for asking
:p
Yeah, I do think people take rejection better if they know the person doesn't swing their way.
Being dismissive of them is worse than telling them you are gay.
Yeah that's fair enough, however the conversation should end -
Woman - Do you want to go for a drink?
Man - No thanks
Woman - Ok fair enough
Sexuality shouldn't need to be justified.
It should, but it doesn't
I don't think anyone in this thread wants to be affected by their disability, gender, or sexuality (although I would say the hardships made me a better person) but we are. We would love to be in an ideal world, but alas, we're not. So yeah, I'll mention that I'm disabled and gay when necessary
Niamh.
01-07-2019, 02:57 PM
Yeah, I do think people take rejection better if they know the person doesn't swing their way.
Being dismissive of them is worse than telling them you are gay.
Makes sense, you know, he doesn't fancy any women, it's not just me kind of a thing
Liam-
01-07-2019, 03:04 PM
Everyone just stay in the closet, it’ll make the straight folk more comfortable
Oliver_W
01-07-2019, 03:05 PM
There's a difference between LGBT just visibly existing and living their lives, and maybe even *gaps* appearing in the media; and the "LGBTQRTAS+pressupdownleftright community" screeching for acceptance we already have. Nothing wrong with the first:)
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 03:07 PM
screeching for acceptance we already have.
Tell that to the gays living in places where it's illegal to be so.
people only have to make it clear they're gay because heterosexuality is assumed
And when does this enter a discussion?
Liam-
01-07-2019, 03:12 PM
Yep, the fight for equality is over, no more fights to fight, everyone loves us and nobody gets attacked, harassed or killed for their sexuality anymore, we have the ultimate acceptance, it must be true, Oliver said so
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 03:12 PM
And when does this enter a discussion?
When you ask the bloke you don't know that well, wearing a wedding ring, how his wife is and he has to clarify "My husband".
People are assumed to be straight if they don't make it clear otherwise.
When you ask the bloke you don't know that well, wearing a wedding ring, how his wife is and he has to clarify "My husband".
People are assumed to be straight if they don't make it clear otherwise.
Oh yes...That's always at the top of my list...checking strangers wedding rings so I can ask about the wife....any better examples?
Wouldn't you just ask a stranger if they were married incase thier wife or husband had died or was seriously ill?
...this is a really good article actually, Swan...(..I can’t copy and paste it in full atm so I’ll just post the link but copy a few bits from it...)...
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jun/18/school-diversity-week-founder-dont-recall-teacher-gay-tim-ramsey
“I’m often struck by how similar our stories are,” he says. “I can’t remember a single teacher at school ever using the word ‘gay’. It really was the worst thing you could be. I was terrified of being the gay boy. I’d known since the age of about six, but I never spoke about it, never opened up to anyone. It was an intensely lonely experience, and that’s what leads to mental health issues.”
The point he wants to drive home is that LGBT issues “are everyone’s business, because you can literally save someone’s life by being there for them and supporting them”.
“.... these are depressing times for those interested in changing the climate around LGBT issues in the UK. Protests in Birmingham against the teaching of LGBT equality; Ann Widdecombe’s comments about science finding a cure for homosexuality; and the backing of the one-time Tory leadership hopeful Esther McVey for allowing parents to withdraw their children from lessons around LGBT relationships are all, he says, disquieting.”
“What many people don’t appreciate is how it feels to be surrounded by these debates and controversy,” he says. “In those Birmingham schools, for example, we could expect one in 10 pupils to be LGBT; and their first experience of these issues will be people protesting at their school gates.”
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 03:20 PM
Oh yes...That's always at the top of my list...checking strangers wedding rings so I can ask about the wife....any better examples?
Wouldn't you just ask a stranger if they were married incase thier wife or husband had died or was seriously ill?
It was an example of making conversation with someone you don't know well. If you knew they were married, you would assume in a heterosexual relationship before otherwise.
But, yes, be pedantic. Always preferable to discussing the topic.
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 03:22 PM
...this is a really good article actually, Swan...(..I can’t copy and paste it in full atm so I’ll just post the link but copy a few bits from it...)...
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jun/18/school-diversity-week-founder-dont-recall-teacher-gay-tim-ramsey
“I’m often struck by how similar our stories are,” he says. “I can’t remember a single teacher at school ever using the word ‘gay’. It really was the worst thing you could be. I was terrified of being the gay boy. I’d known since the age of about six, but I never spoke about it, never opened up to anyone. It was an intensely lonely experience, and that’s what leads to mental health issues.”
The point he wants to drive home is that LGBT issues “are everyone’s business, because you can literally save someone’s life by being there for them and supporting them”.
“.... these are depressing times for those interested in changing the climate around LGBT issues in the UK. Protests in Birmingham against the teaching of LGBT equality; Ann Widdecombe’s comments about science finding a cure for homosexuality; and the backing of the one-time Tory leadership hopeful Esther McVey for allowing parents to withdraw their children from lessons around LGBT relationships are all, he says, disquieting.”
“What many people don’t appreciate is how it feels to be surrounded by these debates and controversy,” he says. “In those Birmingham schools, for example, we could expect one in 10 pupils to be LGBT; and their first experience of these issues will be people protesting at their school gates.”
But they have enough acceptance. Oliver said.
It was an example of making conversation with someone you don't know well. If you knew they were married, you would assume in a heterosexual relationship before otherwise.
But, yes, be pedantic. Always preferable to discussing the topic.
I wouldn't assume anything...is this a gay thing? Is it just gay people who assume anyone not gay instantly assumes other people are straight. ...in this day and age?
Rather narrow minded of you marsh if you don't mind me saying....I don't know about anyone else but these days I don't assume anything when it comes to people's sexuality.
brat.
01-07-2019, 03:26 PM
because there is little to none representation in mainstream media, whilst every couple in movies, television shows etc. are straight, and when a gay relationship is involved it is focused upon them... being geigh rather than being a normal couple
why it's needed is exactly because of threads like this, saying "why does it need to gay"... well why doesn't it? it's not anything different and if as you say you "just see a man" then the fact of something being labelled as gay shouldn't affect you :mwah:
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 03:27 PM
I wouldn't assume anything...is this a gay thing? Is it just gay people who assume anyone not gay instantly assumes other people are straight. ...in this day and age?
Rather narrow minded of you marsh if you don't mind me saying....I don't know about anyone else but these days I don't assume anything when it comes to people's sexuality.
Do you ever get bored of avoiding discussion and choosing to bait?
Do it elsewhere. Not interested.
Jessica.
01-07-2019, 03:28 PM
Men catcall women in the street, the other day a few women said it wasn't uncommon for men to sexually harass them. Straight men brandish their sexuality all over the place, you just don't notice because you are one.
Do you ever get bored of avoiding discussion and choosing to bait?
Do it elsewhere. Not interested.
That's not baiting...That's airing my honest opinion and how I deal with the example you set before me...
Don't ****ing ask next time if you can't see the answer when it's in front of you. .baiting...what a load of rubbish.:nono:
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 03:30 PM
Not interested Parm.
Men catcall women in the street, the other day a few women said it wasn't uncommon for men to sexually harass them. Straight men brandish their sexuality all over the place, you just don't notice because you are one.
And I've had my arse felt by a gay bloke on more than one occasion...when I didn't ask for it.:shrug:
Had my kilt.lifted by hungry women...again, when I didn't want it..
Not interested Parm.
That's avoiding discussion right there....but hey ho.
.bye bye :wavey:
Jessica.
01-07-2019, 03:31 PM
And I've had my arse felt by a gay bloke on more than one occasion...when I didn't ask for it.:shrug:
Okay, I'm not saying that's right, but that is one personal experience, the thread is about generally putting sexuality on display which isn't just done by people from the LGBT community.
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 03:32 PM
Gays should just act straight until in the comfort of a gay bar (which from the outside does not look like a gay bar).
Then everyone is comfortable and safe.
Elliot
01-07-2019, 03:38 PM
screeching for acceptance we already have.
im sick of this bs you do this every thread
just because you, personally, have had good experiences, doesn't invalidate the people that haven't. Even in the 'western world' that y'all consistently hold as this liberal haven, the lgbt community still faces discrimination and horrible experiences because of their sexuality or identity. What one person has gone through doesn't invalidate your experiences, but it also works the other way around. Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Maybe you'd be less confident making these blanket statements if you knew of more lived experiences members of the lgbt community have gone through, if only they weren't told to shut up all the time like they are being told to do so in this thread.
user104658
01-07-2019, 03:41 PM
im sick of this bs you do this every thread
just because you, personally, have had good experiences, doesn't invalidate the people that haven't. Even in the 'western world' that y'all consistently hold as this liberal haven, the lgbt community still faces discrimination and horrible experiences because of their sexuality or identity. What one person has gone through doesn't invalidate your experiences, but it also works the other way around. Just because you say so doesn't make it true. Maybe you'd be less confident making these blanket statements if you knew of more lived experiences members of the lgbt community have gone through, if only they weren't told to shut up all the time like they are being told to do so in this thread.
Honestly I would be utterly flabbergasted if Oliver has had many experiences either way, because every single opinion he has on this topic sounds like something he read elsewhere and decided "sounds right".
Very typical of a straight white man to complain that another persons identity is too much for them. You talk about us all being human beings but gay men continue to be persecuted and killed in countries where they are still viewed as pariahs. These are legitimate concerns which highlight exactly the reason why there is an ongoing fight to normalize homosexuality and to protect the lives of gay men/women and trans people across the world.
If you feel sick and tired of hearing about sexuality and race in discussions today then I would encourage you to focus your energy into thinking about why they are so prevalent. There exists very little productivity in your disapproval of people using certain words to describe themselves. To you, "gay", "trans", "black" are words that you've heard enough of. To others, they are words which define meaningful identities and are part of who we are.
What I'm trying to say is that I identify not only as a man but as a gay man and I will talk about it as much as I damn well want to~
Very typical of a straight white man to complain that another persons identity is too much for them. You talk about us all being human beings but gay men continue to be persecuted and killed in countries where they are still viewed as pariahs. These are legitimate concerns which highlight exactly the reason why there is an ongoing fight to normalize homosexuality and to protect the lives of gay men/women and trans people across the world.
If you feel sick and tired of hearing about sexuality and race in discussions today then I would encourage you to focus your energy into thinking about why they are so prevalent. There exists very little productivity in your disapproval of people using certain words to describe themselves. To you, "gay", "trans", "black" are words that you've heard enough of. To others, they are words which define meaningful identities and are part of who we are.
What I'm trying to say is that I identify not only as a man but as a gay man and I will talk about it as much as I damn well want to~
Why are you bringing race into it? What does sexuality have to do with race?
And nope, you are just assuming. How dare you try and twist my opinion into something racist. I've had enough of people like you i really have.
Why are you bringing race into it? What does sexuality have to do with race?
And nope, you are just assuming. How dare you try and twist my opinion into something racist. I've had enough of people like you i really have.
You really are fragile
You really are fragile
For accusing me that i have an issue with the colour of somebodies skin? Ok then.
Why are you bringing race into it? What does sexuality have to do with race?
And nope, you are just assuming. How dare you try and twist my opinion into something racist. I've had enough of people like you i really have.
It was merely an example but sure, go off!
If the only thing you took from that post was the need to defend yourself as a racist then you missed the entire point of my argument and I'm done here. Can't argue with a brick wall tbh x
Matthew.
01-07-2019, 05:02 PM
Why are you bringing race into it? What does sexuality have to do with race?
And nope, you are just assuming. How dare you try and twist my opinion into something racist. I've had enough of people like you i really have.
:suspect:
http://brantsteele.com/images/bigbrother/uk/06/saskia.png
For accusing me that i have an issue with the colour of somebodies skin? Ok then.
What I've noticed from the very few posts I've seen of yours in this thread is that your worldview is very self-centered. Gays can't talk about their sexuality because it offends YOU. I can't bring up race issues in a discussion about sexuality as if the two aren't adjacent because it offends YOU.
Not everything is about you. I guess that's something you will learn in time. But then again, you're straight and white, so maybe not!
It was merely an example but sure, go off!
If the only thing you took from that post was the need to defend yourself as a racist then you missed the entire point of my argument and I'm done here. Can't argue with a brick wall tbh x
You started out your post inciting race, of i will defend myself when you are underhandedly accusing me of being racist.
For accusing me that i have an issue with the colour of somebodies skin? Ok then.
Just in general really. You made a thread because you're so bothered that gay people mention that they're gay. Get over yourself
What I've noticed from the very few posts I've seen of yours in this thread is that your worldview is very self-centered. Gays can't talk about their sexuality because it offends YOU. I can't bring up race issues in a discussion about sexuality as if the two aren't adjacent because it offends YOU.
Not everything is about you. I guess that's something you will learn in time. But then again, you're straight and white, so maybe not!
When did i say someones sexuality offended me?
And there you go again with your 'straight white male'. I was bullied unmercifully throughout my secondary school years, but to you it's like because im straight, and white, and male i've somehow had a free ride in life?!
It's my personal opinion that sexuality, race and gender doesn't defy a perso.
Also, you brought race into it :pat:
Just in general really. You made a thread because you're so bothered that gay people mention that they're gay. Get over yourself
No, i was just trying to say it really doesn't matter if you're gay or not, we're all equal.
But i think it's funny who this can be somehow turned into 'white male being intolerant of homosexuality and race'.
When did i say someones sexuality offended me?
And there you go again with your 'straight white male'. I was bullied unmercifully throughout my secondary school years, but to you it's like because im straight, and white, and male i've somehow had a free ride in life?!
When did he say you had a free ride in life... Lmao
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 05:12 PM
When did i say someones sexuality offended me?
And there you go again with your 'straight white male'. I was bullied unmercifully throughout my secondary school years, but to you it's like because im straight, and white, and male i've somehow had a free ride in life?!
Were you bullied for being white or male or straight?
I doubt it.
No, i was just trying to say it really doesn't matter if you're gay or not, we're all equal.
But i think it's funny who this can be somehow turned into 'white male being intolerant of homosexuality and race'.
Except we're not all equal and you're getting past that people identify as the word "gay" :joker: :pat:
Also, you brought race into it :pat:
:facepalm:
True, and the argument of the other poster is about my race, lol. Im not bothered by another's race, we are all equal. I guess other people are bothered and offended by my race.
:facepalm:
True, and the argument of the other poster is about my race, lol. Im not bothered by another's race, we are all equal. I guess other people are bothered and offended by my race.
Love if you think we're equal to black people in this world you're a next level of delusion
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 05:14 PM
:facepalm:
True, and the argument of the other poster is about my race, lol. Im not bothered by another's race, we are all equal. I guess other people are bothered and offended by my race.
That's kind of the point though. Some minorities have to fight for equality, whilst others are naturally afforded it (as they should be). If you can't see that imbalance I dom't know what to say.
Were you bullied for being white or male or straight?
I doubt it.
I was bullied for preferring books over sport.
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 05:15 PM
I was bullied for preferring books over sport.
Right. So that has nothing to do with a poster suggesting as a straight white male you've never endured inequality due to your race, sexuality or gender.
Right. So that has nothing to do with a poster suggesting as a straight white male you've never endured inequality due to your race, sexuality or gender.
No, it's more an argument of 'straight white male had it easy in life' which is false.
No, it's more an argument of 'straight white male had it easy in life' which is false.
But who said that...
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 05:18 PM
No, it's more an argument of 'straight white male had it easy in life' which is false.
He never said that.
But who said that...
Jigs made the assumption that being im a 'straight white male' i cannot understand hardship in life.
Moniqua
01-07-2019, 05:20 PM
black lives matter
Liam-
01-07-2019, 05:20 PM
Straight white men, will on average, have a statistically easier life than those under the lgbt umbrella, that’s an unavoidable fact
Jigs made the assumption that being im a 'straight white male' i cannot understand hardship in life.
So he didn't say it and you're making a mountain out of a molehill? Got it
black lives matter
All lives matter, since I don't see race! I see everyone as EQUAL
So he didn't say it and you're making a mountain out of a molehill? Got it
Well i kind proves my original point as just seeing someone as a human being, assuming i feel a certain way due to race and sexuality is narrow minded imo.
Thinking my opinion of not caring if you're gay or not is fine, i accept that it's all up for debate. But my race shouldn't really matter whatsoever.
Shaun
01-07-2019, 05:26 PM
Everytime I see someone saying they don't like to be labelled, I see a primadonna trying too hard to be different.
Moniqua
01-07-2019, 05:29 PM
All lives matter, since I don't see race! I see everyone as EQUAL
black lives matter
black lives matter
I don't see race :dazzler: all lives!!! I'm equality incarnate
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 05:32 PM
Black, black, black, black, black, black, black! Get some colour in yer life!!
Black, black, black, black, black, black, black! Get some colour in yer life!!
Gah I was gonna say this but with "LGBT this LGBT THAT GET SOME STRAIGHT IN YA LIFE!!"
What's ironic is it's now assumed im homophobic and racist lol.
Fwiw, im perfectly comfortable in admitting that ASAP Rocky is probably the most beautiful looking man i've ever seen. And if i were to ever explore my bi-curious instincts (something i feel every man will feel once in their life whether they want to admit it or not) i would ecstatic if were to be with him (not that he would go anywhere near me, and he's straight etc).
But yeah, keep twisting because i don't feel people need to constantly label themselves.
Elliot
01-07-2019, 05:57 PM
Gah I was gonna say this but with "LGBT this LGBT THAT GET SOME STRAIGHT IN YA LIFE!!"
omg sdkfds
Morgan.
01-07-2019, 05:59 PM
What's ironic is it's now assumed im homophobic and racist lol.
Fwiw, im perfectly comfortable in admitting that ASAP Rocky is probably the most beautiful looking man i've ever seen. And if i were to ever explore my bi-curious instincts (something i feel every man will feel once in their life whether they want to admit it or not) i would ecstatic if were to be with him (not that he would go anywhere near me, and he's straight etc).
But yeah, keep twisting because i don't feel people need to constantly label themselves.
Not the classic ‘I’m not homophobic because such and such male is good looking’ card
i don't feel people need to constantly label themselves.
But they do, and that’s the point!
I’m sure if you had a label you were proud of and which defined you then you would understand this counter argument. But fine.
Greg!
01-07-2019, 06:00 PM
This RIDICULOUS scream of a thread has reminded me of this video
5qArvBdHkJA
Elliot
01-07-2019, 06:01 PM
No, it's more an argument of 'straight white male had it easy in life' which is false.
nobody, not a single soul, thinks this. Thing is, have you wholeheartedly faced hardship and discrimination for being a straight, white male? we all have issues and struggles, but were talking about sexuality here. Its not taking away from anything you've dealt with in your life, so why take it so personally?
Not the classic ‘I’m not homophobic because such and such male is good looking’ card
I thought the classic card was 'i have gay friends, i have black friends' ?
Didn't even know my statement was a 'card' but there you are i guess.
Morgan.
01-07-2019, 06:03 PM
I thought the classic card was 'i have gay friends, i have black friends' ?
Didn't even know my statement was a 'card' but there you are i guess.
I was just messin :p
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 06:14 PM
This RIDICULOUS scream of a thread has reminded me of this video
5qArvBdHkJA
This pretty much sums it up. :joker:
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 06:16 PM
What's ironic is it's now assumed im homophobic and racist lol.
Fwiw, im perfectly comfortable in admitting that ASAP Rocky is probably the most beautiful looking man i've ever seen. And if i were to ever explore my bi-curious instincts (something i feel every man will feel once in their life whether they want to admit it or not) i would ecstatic if were to be with him (not that he would go anywhere near me, and he's straight etc).
But yeah, keep twisting because i don't feel people need to constantly label themselves.
I love how you think the opposite of you being homophobic means you have to admit to homosexual desires. :skull:
I love how you think the opposite of you being homophobic means you have to admit to homosexual desires. :skull:
So by saying i don't think people should be labelled in regards to sexuality, and that i don't care if a fellow human being is gay, straight, bi, trans etc, im homophobic?
Swan reminds me of that scene from My Name is Earl, "I have two kids! One's black and one's white. I don't see race so I can't tell which ones which! :hugesmile:"
Swan reminds me of that scene from My Name is Earl, "I have two kids! One's black and one's white. I don't see race so I can't tell which ones which! :hugesmile:"
It's more about not defining someone because of race, colour, sexuality etc. Something i don't do :)
...it is a bit like the vid that Greg posted...and tbh, I don’t understand the point or reason to the thread ..(..sorry Swan..)...but it hasn’t really evolved from the OP ...of the OP not wanting their sexuality to be part of how they identify themselves...that though is not how everyone feels and there is no allowance or thought for the differences in us and our individuality ...regardless of what our sexuality is...our sexuality is a part of us and a very important part...if I was not heterosexual, I would not have the life exactly as I have ...therefore I would not be the person I am...because everything in my life makes me the person I am...everything, including my sexuality...so it’s impossible, to me...to separate an entire person...I also don’t find mainstream media ‘constantly throwing’ anything in my face with regards to sexuality...and that expression in itself would not indicate a tolerance or acceptance to me, particularly...most views that have been put forward have fairly much been rejected also because they’re not the view held and the view maintained throughout...
It's more about not defining someone because of race, colour, sexuality etc. Something i don't do :)
Whatever floats your boat sis :pat:
Whatever floats your boat sis :pat:
Same goes for you bro :pat:
Whatever floats your boat sis :pat:
This isn't me labelling you as "sis"gender before you pop off! You human :hugesmile:
Same goes for you bro :pat:
Why label me as male? Dio you see gender now?
This isn't me labelling you as "sis"gender before you pop off! You human :hugesmile:
You didn't need to clarify, but ok thanks.
Marsh.
01-07-2019, 06:53 PM
So by saying i don't think people should be labelled in regards to sexuality, and that i don't care if a fellow human being is gay, straight, bi, trans etc, im homophobic?
Well, yes, because you do care.
Your opening post is "Why is somebodies sexual orientation constantly thrown in my face". An issue you take with LGBT but not straight.
Funny that. Almost... homophobic. If you did not care you would not have made the thread.
Tom4784
01-07-2019, 06:56 PM
This RIDICULOUS scream of a thread has reminded me of this video
5qArvBdHkJA
Me describing Glenn to someone who has never met him.
https://youtu.be/5qArvBdHkJA?t=167
Well, yes, because you do care.
Your opening post is "Why is somebodies sexual orientation constantly thrown in my face". An issue you take with LGBT but not straight.
Funny that. Almost... homophobic. If you did not care you would not have made the thread.
Well it was never my intention to come across homophobic, i am certainly not homophobic. So if i offended you i apologise.
To ever obtain equality there has to be a shift in the balance in favour of the persecuted group. I fully expect a period of 50 + years where that needs to happen before things could be considered going against the norm in any meaningful way.
I mean, really, who cares what other people do, I personally have enough to do looking after myself and my family without the need to get upset over a peaceful reminder that not everyone is treated equally.
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