William Hill Betting shops to shut 700 shops placing 4,500 jobs at risk

[arista]

This has been expected


[Gambling firm William Hill has confirmed plans to shut
700 betting shops, placing 4,500 jobs at risk.
The bookmaker had threatened such a move before a crackdown
on controversial fixed-odds betting terminal (FOBT)
stakes was implemented on 1 April.
William Hill said in a statement: "Since then the company has seen
a significant fall in gaming machine revenues, in line with the guidance given
when the government's decision was announced in May 2018." ]


["Subject to the outcome of the consultation process, shop closures
are likely to begin before the end of the year."
Which stores are to go will not be confirmed
until the end of the consultation period.]


https://news.sky.com/story/william-hill-to-shut-700-shops-placing-4-500-jobs-at-risk-11756484

[user104658]

Is this only just news? :think: it will be over 2000 shops (approx 10,000 jobs) across Hills / LadbrokesCoral / Betfred / Paddies over the next two years. It was inevitable with the changes to machines. My shop (and job) were safe but I've left anyway because A) The industry is scum and no one should work for them, B) I found a much better job and C) The way that staff - some of whom have worked for these companies for 20+ years - are being treated currently is abysmal. I've seen colleagues who have been friends for 15 years at each others throats over job competition worries. I've seen staff members hard-selling online accounts to clearly vulnerable individuals because they think bumping up their numbers will make them more likely to be "safe". All for jobs with crap pay, crappier working conditions, and support from upper management that is so tokenistic / lip-service that it's an actual joke.

Also;

The restrictions on machines don't go anywhere near far enough. They ARE highly addictive, people ARE still blowing small fortunes on them even with the limits (which don't affect slots, the most addictive product, that the industry is very aware is the most addictive product, and deliberately pushes on Over The Counter customers in hopes of getting them interested, for profit). Oh and the basic message when they stopped the high stakes casino games - a move designed to protect gambling addicts who were losing their money, relationships and sanity? "Get them online they can still do it there". Incentivised to spend that money gambling elsewhere. Either casino games online, or onto the dogs over the counter. Grim. Really ****ing grim. Getting out has been the best thing that's ever happened to me career wise, handing in my resignation was so satisfying, but I still don't even get to feel happy when I think about it, because thinking about the industry at all just boils my blood :shrug:.

[Beso]

You can't play the ten pound fortune spins on slots anymore..

[michael21]

Betting shops have been around long before fobt

The reason there closing in because people are moving online

William hill head office staff are safe for now

[Marsh.]

You can't play the ten pound fortune spins on slots anymore..

Since they went to £2 max stake? Ooh, who'd have thought?

[user104658]

Betting shops have been around long before fobt

The reason there closing in because people are moving online

William hill head office staff are safe for now

The reason they're closing (now) is FOBT £2 max stakes - it's killed any physical shop that can't support itself over the counter. I sat through the actual meetings about it :joker:.

[user104658]

Online will be the next major crackdown and then hopefully the entire industry will crumble :hee:.

[michael21]

The reason they're closing (now) is FOBT £2 max stakes - it's killed any physical shop that can't support itself over the counter. I sat through the actual meetings about it :joker:.

So Your saying online betting has no impact in the betting shops

[michael21]

Online will be the next major crackdown and then hopefully the entire industry will crumble :hee:.

Sure in abut 800 years

[Marsh.]

So Your saying online betting has no impact in the betting shops

You're saying online betting will only just now be impacting their business?

It's 2019 lad, not 1999.

[michael21]

You're saying online betting will only just now be impacting their business?

It's 2019 lad, not 1999.

Shops are closing all the time because more are going online :smug:

[Marsh.]

Shops are closing all the time because more are going online :smug:

Of course they are, but you're suggesting bookmakers on the high street are facing closure due to online as though online betting is a new thing. It isn't.

[michael21]

Of course they are, but you're suggesting bookmakers on the high street are facing closure due to online as though online betting is a new thing. It isn't.

But if there were no online betting then people would bet in shop :shrug:

[Twosugars]

Is this only just news? :think: it will be over 2000 shops (approx 10,000 jobs) across Hills / LadbrokesCoral / Betfred / Paddies over the next two years. It was inevitable with the changes to machines. My shop (and job) were safe but I've left anyway because A) The industry is scum and no one should work for them, B) I found a much better job and C) The way that staff - some of whom have worked for these companies for 20+ years - are being treated currently is abysmal. I've seen colleagues who have been friends for 15 years at each others throats over job competition worries. I've seen staff members hard-selling online accounts to clearly vulnerable individuals because they think bumping up their numbers will make them more likely to be "safe". All for jobs with crap pay, crappier working conditions, and support from upper management that is so tokenistic / lip-service that it's an actual joke.

Also;

The restrictions on machines don't go anywhere near far enough. They ARE highly addictive, people ARE still blowing small fortunes on them even with the limits (which don't affect slots, the most addictive product, that the industry is very aware is the most addictive product, and deliberately pushes on Over The Counter customers in hopes of getting them interested, for profit). Oh and the basic message when they stopped the high stakes casino games - a move designed to protect gambling addicts who were losing their money, relationships and sanity? "Get them online they can still do it there". Incentivised to spend that money gambling elsewhere. Either casino games online, or onto the dogs over the counter. Grim. Really ****ing grim. Getting out has been the best thing that's ever happened to me career wise, handing in my resignation was so satisfying, but I still don't even get to feel happy when I think about it, because thinking about the industry at all just boils my blood :shrug:.

Well done, TS. You deserve better

[Beso]

Of course they are, but you're suggesting bookmakers on the high street are facing closure due to online as though online betting is a new thing. It isn't.

It's a new thing for tens of thousands of people arriving at the legal age of betting.

[Swan]

Shops are closing all the time because more are going online :smug:

Nah i disagree with this statement. Basically before betting shops had those evil, conning FOBT's they would open at like 12pm (not 8am like they do now) and shut at the latest 7pm after the day's racing (not 10pm like they do now). Also, these firms make/made so much money from FOBT's that they would be opening new shops daily, literally half the shops that exist now were most likely opened in the last 15/20 years as FOBT's became more and more profitable. People losing their jobs is a shame, but do we really need 5 betting shops in one street?!

Online will have had an impact for sure, but they wouldn't be closing anywhere near as many shops if the limits were to stay the same.

[Marsh.]

It's a new thing for tens of thousands of people arriving at the legal age of betting.

But those people only just arriving at that age weren't going into shops to begin with.

[Vicky.]

Online will be the next major crackdown and then hopefully the entire industry will crumble :hee:.

With a bit of luck..

Online gambling is a horrific vice of mine that I seem to be unable to get rid of. Have signed up to that gamstop thing thats meant to self exclude you from everywhere, yet most casinos still allow me to deposit (when I have my weak moments, usually prompted by medication tbh) over and over, and only ever bring up the exlucision when I win and try to withdraw. So basically, gamstop does nothing to help except for putting the casinos in a win/win situation. Where they can accept endless deposits, but then say 'you are excluded' when a win happens. Its vile. Just more loopholes for them.

I do accept that its partly my fault of course. But really really hate how its made out to be help for problem gamblers when if anything, its just made things worse and given casinos even more scope to exploit people. Ontop of this, its part of gamstops T&Cs that 'you will not attempt to log into existing accounts, nor make new accounts'...like..if it was that easy for problem gamblers, they would not need something like gamstop to start with?! Stupid stupid term which makes me rage a lot when its quoted by casinos while they are denying me winnings whilst also keeping deposits.

[Marsh.]

But if there were no online betting then people would bet in shop :shrug:

Obviously.

I'm saying online betting has been battling with the shops for 15-20 years. Again, not new.

[Marsh.]

With a bit of luck..

Online gambling is a horrific vice of mine that I seem to be unable to get rid of. Have signed up to that gamstop thing thats meant to self exclude you from everywhere, yet most casinos still allow me to deposit (when I have my weak moments, usually prompted by medication tbh) over and over, and only ever bring up the exlucision when I win and try to withdraw. So basically, gamstop does nothing to help except for putting the casinos in a win/win situation. Where they can accept endless deposits, but then say 'you are excluded' when a win happens. Its vile. Just more loopholes for them.

I do accept that its partly my fault of course. But really really hate how its made out to be help for problem gamblers when if anything, its just made things wors and given casinos even more scope to exploit people. Ontop of this, its part pf gamstops T&Cs that 'you will not attempt to log into existing accounts, nor make new accounts'...like..if it was that easy for problem gamblers, they would not need something like gamstop to start with?! Stupid stupid term which makes me rage a lot when its quoted by casinos wile they are denying me winnings whilst also keeping deposits.

That's disgusting. Surely that's illegal.

Then again "surely that's illegal" seems to be the response to anything related to this industry, including their employment terms. Seems they get away with murder through loopholes.

[Vicky.]

That's disgusting. Surely that's illegal.

Then again "surely that's illegal" seems to be the response to anything related to this industry, including their employment terms. Seems they get away with murder through loopholes.

You would think, yet the casinos all quote the stupid gamstop term of 'will not attempt to log into accounts' and say that since I broke the gamstop t&cs, its my own problem and basically, **** off.

As I said, gamstop is made out to be helpful for problem gamblers, but realistically all it has done is give casinos more chance to **** over players and make profit from people who should not even be playing.

[Beso]

But those people only just arriving at that age weren't going into shops to begin with.

The people dying at the other end of the age gap need replacing though :shrug:

[Vicky.]

Dear Victoria.

We are writing to you with reference to Unibet.co.uk account 104247701, and further to your email dated the 15/06/2019.

Please be advised that your complaint has been fully investigated in accordance with our complaints procedure, as detailed in our terms and conditions (Section 21 - Complaints). https://www.unibet.co.uk/general-info/terms#section-21

The main focus of your complaint is that you were permitted to access Unibet account 104247701 despite being registered with Gamstop, the National On-line Self-Exclusion Scheme. In doing so, you were able to deposit and incur losses totaling £644, which you believe should be refunded.

Gamstop is a relatively new but welcome addition to the tools available to individuals wishing to manage access to on-line gaming companies. However, it is by no means foolproof and certainly not intended to function as a replacement for willpower.

Furthermore, their terms of use are quite clear in that by registering with them, you agree not to attempt to register any new gambling accounts, log into any of your existing accounts, or in any way try to circumvent Gamstops mechanisms for the duration of your exclusion.

To have accessed this account whist knowingly excluded with Gamstop is therefore clearly a breach of their terms of use, and Unibets terms and conditions. As previously advised, the scheme is by no means foolproof and its effectiveness is reliant on the accuracy of the details registered with them. It is clear from our investigation that your account failed to be suspended by your Gamstop registration owing to the clear discrepancies in your registration details, your phone number was different to the one registered with gamstop.

With reference to your comments regarding certain similarities in the registration details, we would remind you that operators do not have access to the Gamstop database.

Having fully investigated your complaint, we can find no evidence of our responsible gaming procedures, or our social responsibility commitments having been breached. We can only conclude that the Gamstop mechanisms functioned as intended in this instance, and as such we do not believe there is any basis for a claim.

We are satisfied we are operating our business in a socially responsible manner, compliant with all applicable law and regulation, and respectfully remind you that ultimately responsible gaming requires a joint commitment, and cannot be the sole responsibility of operators,

Please do not hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further assistance.


Kind regards,

Samuel.




Unibet UK Customer Support

I might delete this as its quite..identifying. But here is an example of casinos wiggling their way out of refunds, when account has only been identified as a withdrawal was requested. For ****s sake, I only withdrew a hundred quid too, given they see how compulsive my gambling is, they would have made a lot more from me by just paying it and allowing me to continue..I very rarely actually request withdrawals and tend to play back anything won.

I believe, if they refuse withdrawals they should also refund deposits. OR they should allow withdrawals, one of the two, not keep deposits AND refuse withdrawals.

But this shows, how they use unfair terms to deny refunds, while also denying withdrawals. Which surely is unfair as it places the player in a no win situation. Now as I said, I do accept this is partly my fault, however it cannot be denied really that casinos are just using gamstop as a way to exploit players like me, who have addictions. It probably seems stupid to people that I do keep signing up and trying, but..I cannot really explain it. Its just something I do do, generally while heavily medicated and feeling a bit down, as gambling was always my go to way of feeling a bit better.

They also tend to claim they have no access to the gamstop database, while simultaneously exluding you as your details match gamstops database, something thats oddly enough only ever picked up on whe withdrawal is requested :rolleyes:

[Marsh.]

The people dying at the other end of the age gap need replacing though :shrug:

What's this got to do with what I said? :laugh:

I didn't say online doesn't affect the shops. I'm saying it is not a new thing. The change in stakes, however, is.

[Beso]

What's this got to do with what I said? :laugh:

I didn't say online doesn't affect the shops. I'm saying it is not a new thing. The change in stakes, however, is.



There you have it then...the people who can't play the higher stakes in shop have turned to online gaming as it still has the higher max stake.:smug:

[Marsh.]

There you have it then...the people who can't play the higher stakes in shop have turned to online gaming as it still has the higher max stake.:smug:

Exactly.

[user104658]

Shops are closing all the time because more are going online :smug:

Heavy-hitters can't / won't bet online because you can't gamble online anonymously. Is the short answer. Men in suits betting £500+ per punt don't want their name on it and they never will, basically. As for the "everyday customer", you'll generally find that these days in-shop customers ALSO have online accounts and simply use both. As Marsh says, the "damage" from online gambling was done 5+ years ago and has stabilized.

Not to be blunt Michael but you're basing your assumptions on pure guesswork whereas up until a couple of months ago I had full access to the actual figures of 30+ shops going back years. Shop trading dropped approx 25% when the "big push for online" happened , years ago, and it stabilised within a year. The FOBT "boom" happened AFTER online became big. The reason is as above; the heavy betters like to gamble anonymously... they don't want bookmakers having access to their name, address and other contact details. I've had multiple instances of the Gambling Commission asking for a customer to be restricted until their identity / proof of income can be confirmed (for money laundering / proceeds of crime compliance); as soon as you ask them for anything more than a first name you won't see them again for dust. That doesn't mean they're doing anything dodgy. It just means that they know they have a multiple-thousand-pound-a-month habit that could ruin their life if it got out. Those are the people that the bookmakers REALLY, REALLY WANT betting with them, and they're the people who will never have an online account or even a loyalty card.

A final tidbit to be considered by the gamblers out there:

If you start winning consistently and making a profit you'll be actively monitored (whether that's online or not). If your monitored customer data shows that you consistently make profit over the long term you'll be banned. You'll be marked as a "Red Alert" customer and have your bets restricted to the point that they become worthless. Simple as that. You literally cannot win.... they won't let you.

[user104658]

Sure in abut 800 years

2 - 5 years my friend. I'll bump this post when it happens :joker:.