Patient banned from a hospital after demanding to be seen by a white doctor

[Tony Montana]

A hospital boss has blasted a patient who walked into A&E and demanded to be treated by a white doctor.

The appalling incident happened at Wigan Infirmary in June.

But Andrew Foster, Chief Executive Officer of Wrightington, Wigan and Leigh NHS Foundation Trust, decided to share details publicly after the patient followed up their racist behaviour by making a formal complaint.

The patient, who is not being identified, has written to the Trust complaining that they were unable to see a white doctor and demanded an apology.

Mr Foster tweeted earlier today: "Would you believe a patient coming to A&E and asking to see a white doctor?

"When politely told that a white doctor was not available, the patient walked out and has formally complained about this. This was hugely upsetting for the staff involved. Appalling."
Mr Foster, who has been CEO of the Trust for 12 years, told the Manchester Evening News he is 'angry on behalf of my staff' and has banned the patient from Wigan Infirmary.

They will still receive emergency treatment at A&E if needed, but for anything else they will have to go elsewhere.

Mr Foster has also raised the incident with Greater Manchester Police.

Speaking to the M.E.N on Thursday afternoon, Mr Foster said although the reaction to his tweet has been overwhelmingly positive, many NHS colleagues after said the incident is far too familiar.

"I'm sad to say it wasn't regarded as unusual to report it," he said.

"Sadly we've spoken to consultants in A&E and they agree.

"[It happens] from time to time, usually when somebody has been drinking too much."

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patient-banned-wigan-hospital-after-16533041

****ing vile, racist, scummy little prick.

[Cherie]

When politely told that a white doctor was not available, the patient walked out and has formally complained about this. This was hugely upsetting for the staff involved. Appalling."
Mr Foster, who has been CEO of the Trust for 12 years, told the Manchester Evening News he is 'angry on behalf of my staff' and has banned the patient from Wigan Infirmary.

So many people who turn up at A and E when they dont need to....he/she should be fined as well for wasting time

[bots]

Banning him from the facility is the perfect response

[Oliver_W]

Either the NHS is for all citizens, or it isn't. Racists deserve treatment as much as anyone else.

[Kazanne]

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/patient-banned-wigan-hospital-after-16533041

****ing vile, racist, scummy little prick.

Its a shame Harold Shipman wasn't on duty.:hehe:

[Elliot]

horrific piece of ****

[Vicky.]

Clearly did not need to be in a+e if he could walk back out and just make a complaint, when told there was not a white doctor :bored:

[SherzyK]

Either the NHS is for all citizens, or it isn't. Racists deserve treatment as much as anyone else.

But the racist gets to talk however he wants to the doctor and they’re supposed to take it? Right then

[SherzyK]

He was just wasting time, Oliver. Think about other patients who have to wait hours just to see a doctor because a racist wanted to see a ‘white doctor’

[Vicky.]

Either the NHS is for all citizens, or it isn't. Racists deserve treatment as much as anyone else.
He could have treatment. But he doesnt get to chose which doctor treats him..not in a+E anyway. If he was fine to walk out to complain instead, he should have made an appointment at his local GPs, where he could request a doctor of his chosing for whatever proble m he reckoned he had :shrug:

[Kazanne]

I will admit,I do have trouble understanding some foreigners as their English is not so good and I find it embarrassing as I am deaf in one ear which makes understanding them worse, but I would never refuse treatment from one most make excellent doctors.A doctor is a doctor no matter what colour they are.

[Tony Montana]

Either the NHS is for all citizens, or it isn't. Racists deserve treatment as much as anyone else.

Seriously? :umm2:

[Tony Montana]

Its a shame Harold Shipman wasn't on duty.:hehe:

Just looked him up now and yikes! :skull:

[smudgie]

Heaven forbid he ever really does need a doctor or nurse in an emergency.:fist:

[Liam-]

From experience, you’re lucky to actually see a doctor in A&E, having the audacity to demand a white one is disgusting.

Like people have said, if he was willing to walk out and not be seen, he didn’t need to be seen to at A&E, off you pop you loathable little bigot

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Scum!

[joeysteele]

Just completely unacceptable and offensive.

Had he been in real difficulty or genuine agonising pain, I wonder would he then even care who was alleviating that suffering.

Idiotic bigot.

[Redway]

I will admit,I do have trouble understanding some foreigners as their English is not so good and I find it embarrassing as I am deaf in one ear which makes understanding them worse, but I would never refuse treatment from one most make excellent doctors.A doctor is a doctor no matter what colour they are.

Because all foreigners are non-white and all non-whites are foreign and all foreigners speak bad English, innit. Got you.

[Tom4784]

Either the NHS is for all citizens, or it isn't. Racists deserve treatment as much as anyone else.

So your first response is to defend the racist. Hmm.

If you read the article, you'd have seen that they won't be turned away in emergencies but not for anything else and, judging by how they walked out after they were told there were no white people available, I'm guessing it wasn't serious. A time wasting racist that wanted to get hardworking staff into **** because they couldn't fulfill this arsehole's racist request..

[SherzyK]

So your first response is to defend the racist. Hmm.

If you read the article, you'd have seen that they won't be turned away in emergencies but not for anything else and, judging by how they walked out after they were told there were no white people available, I'm guessing it wasn't serious. A time wasting racist that wanted to get hardworking staff into **** because they couldn't fulfill this arsehole's racist request..

:clap1:

[Mokka]

Because all foreigners are non-white and all non-whites are foreign and all foreigners speak bad English, innit. Got you.

Yep... nailed it :hehe:

[Mokka]

Either the NHS is for all citizens, or it isn't. Racists deserve treatment as much as anyone else.

He wasn't declined service... he rejected the service on offer because of his own racist belief system. That's a choice. He chose not to be treated.

[Kazanne]

Because all foreigners are non-white and all non-whites are foreign and all foreigners speak bad English, innit. Got you.

No one said that but it always takes one to twist it, not going to argue with you ,most people know what I mean most are ok but some are not so clear have you got it now ? or does everything need spelling out nowadays.Jeez, if I had put black person that would have been wrong too ffs,cant say anything now unless someone is crying about it

[Northern Monkey]

Reminds of when people ring a taxi and say “Can you send a white driver please”.Heard that many a time.

If this guy had asked for an English/British DR then fair enough as they are hard to understand sometimes.I struggle to understand some of my GP’s at times.
BUT,He didn’t.He said a WHITE doctor.
That is clearly racist.Skin colour does not define effectiveness at a profession.

[DouglasS]

No one said that but it always takes one to twist it, not going to argue with you ,most people know what I mean most are ok but some are not so clear have you got it now ? or does everything need spelling out nowadays.Jeez, if I had put black person that would have been wrong too ffs,cant say anything now unless someone is crying about it

I don’t think you said anything wrong Kazanne. You were actually saying most doctors are clearly capable regardless of their race and got message has been twisted. I also am rubbish at understanding any accent to be honest

[Kazanne]

I don’t think you said anything wrong Kazanne. You were actually saying most doctors are clearly capable regardless of their race and got message has been twisted. I also am rubbish at understanding any accent to be honest

Exactly Douglas,some people like to find drama when there really isn't any ,lol.

[Twosugars]

Some foreigners speak better English than the natives

[SherzyK]

Exactly Douglas,some people like to find drama when there really isn't any ,lol.

No one was looking for drama I assure you. I personally find it hard to understand some accents so you can’t be faulted for that. I too am deaf in one ear and have difficulty understanding some accents like the Scottish and Welsh.

I love Scotland and Wales so don’t take it the wrong way :p

[Oliver_W]

He wasn't declined service... he rejected the service on offer because of his own racist belief system. That's a choice. He chose not to be treated.

"They will still receive emergency treatment at A&E if needed, but for anything else they will have to go elsewhere."

So if whatever his ailment was progresses, he won't be able to receive treatment in his local hospital.

[SherzyK]

"They will still receive emergency treatment at A&E if needed, but for anything else they will have to go elsewhere."

So if whatever his ailment was progresses, he won't be able to receive treatment in his local hospital.

Again, if he was that desperate then he should have stuck with the doctor that came to see him. If it progresses then that’s his own fault, not the doctors

[bots]

if you go to a doctors surgery and cause trouble you will immediately be removed from the practice list. This is standard procedure. It is up to the individual to take responsibility for their own actions.

[Twosugars]

"They will still receive emergency treatment at A&E if needed, but for anything else they will have to go elsewhere."

So if whatever his ailment was progresses, he won't be able to receive treatment in his local hospital.

I'm sure they looked at all options available
Medical professionals have the ethical code to follow
They'd not deny treatment if there was no alternative eg as they specified in emergency

At the end of the day they're a human being. Like refugees and illegals are, don't you think Oliver? You'd try to help, not let them drown for example...wouldn't you Oliver?

[Jake.]

"They will still receive emergency treatment at A&E if needed, but for anything else they will have to go elsewhere."

So if whatever his ailment was progresses, he won't be able to receive treatment in his local hospital.

Good :joker:

Who gives a ****? He’d receive all the treatment he likes if he wasn’t a racist prick.

[AnnieK]

As most people have said, were it an actual medical emergency, he would have been happy to be treated by anyone, regardless.of race, skin colour etc. Looks like someone who wanted to kick off more than get treated.

My GP is a white Russian, heavily accented, she's like a Bond villian. I took my son recently for the first time in years...she looked at him, gestured him over and said "come". She then looked at the reason I had took him, wrote a prescription and I still had no idea what was wrong with him till.I left and googled what the medication was for :laugh:

[Cherie]

No one was looking for drama I assure you. I personally find it hard to understand some accents so you can’t be faulted for that. I too am deaf in one ear and have difficulty understanding some accents like the Scottish and Welsh.

I love Scotland and Wales so don’t take it the wrong way :p

Nobody will take it the wrong way, we all struggle with some regional accents and no one bats an eyelid except when the person is black, then we are all racists for struggling

[Kazanne]

No one was looking for drama I assure you. I personally find it hard to understand some accents so you can’t be faulted for that. I too am deaf in one ear and have difficulty understanding some accents like the Scottish and Welsh.

I love Scotland and Wales so don’t take it the wrong way :p

I get that but some are just so eager to pull someone up for anything , its hard to know what to say or call anyone now as I recently quite innocently called someone 'coloured' and got an infraction for it , so just how are we supposed to describe people :shrug:I will probably now get another infraction because I used that naughty word :fist:

[SherzyK]

Nobody will take it the wrong way, we all struggle with some regional accents and no one bats an eyelid except when the person is black, then we are all racists for struggling

Skin colour doesn’t define how well you speak English though. You can be brown, black, orange, pink, pistachio and speak fluent English.

[SherzyK]

I get that but some are just so eager to pull someone up for anything , its hard to know what to say or call anyone now as I recently quite innocently called someone 'coloured' and got an infraction for it , so just how are we supposed to describe people :shrug:I will probably now get another infraction because I used that naughty word :fist:

Just don’t use it then if you know it’s gonna offend people, Kazanne.

[Cherie]

Skin colour doesn’t define how well you speak English though. You can be brown, black, orange, pink, pistachio and speak fluent English.

I was speaking about black people who are not English natives? nobody can say a word if they can't understand them? yet we can quite openly and rightly so say we cant understand say a Scottish person whose first language is English

[SherzyK]

But I was talking about native English speakers who have strong accents and are sometimes difficult to understand.

It’s really not that hard to understand but I guess some people like to exaggerate

[Cherie]

But I was talking about native English speakers who have strong accents and are sometimes difficult to understand.

It’s really not that hard to understand but I guess some people like to exaggerate

I know you were, no idea what point you are making at all now tbh, and I will leave it there as I really cant be arsed

[Twosugars]

Afaik all foreign doctors have their qualifications verified and their English tested before they're allowed to practice in this country.
Idg where all these negative experiences come from. I've never come across a foreign health professional with problematic English

[Kazanne]

Afaik all foreign doctors have their qualifications verified and their English tested before they're allowed to practice in this country.
Idg where all these negative experiences come from. I've never come across a foreign health professional with problematic English

Well lucky,you,Ive often come away from hospital without a clue what has been related to me. it doesn't bother me I just find it a bit embarrassing having to keep saying pardon so most times I just give up as I would never ask to see someone else.

[AnnieK]

Afaik all foreign doctors have their qualifications verified and their English tested before they're allowed to practice in this country.
Idg where all these negative experiences come from. I've never come across a foreign health professional with problematic English

I rarely see.my GP but she is heavily accented, I was trying to make the point that she is white and still difficult to understand but I trust her judgement and have no issues with the care she gives.

[SherzyK]

I know you were, no idea what point you are making at all now tbh, and I will leave it there as I really cant be arsed

I don’t know what point you were trying to make either but we shall drop it :love:

[Kazanne]

I was speaking about black people who are not English natives? nobody can say a word if they can't understand them? yet we can quite openly and rightly so say we cant understand say a Scottish person whose first language is English

:laugh: that can be difficult too.

[MTVN]

I get that but some are just so eager to pull someone up for anything , its hard to know what to say or call anyone now as I recently quite innocently called someone 'coloured' and got an infraction for it , so just how are we supposed to describe people :shrug:I will probably now get another infraction because I used that naughty word :fist:

Its pretty well understood now that that's not a term that's appropriate and it is offensive to many people, its not hard not to use it

[Oliver_W]

Like refugees and illegals are, don't you think Oliver? You'd try to help, not let them drown for example...wouldn't you Oliver?

And then I'd drop them off where they came from, yes.

[Kazanne]

Its pretty well understood now that that's not a term that's appropriate and it is offensive to many people, its not hard not to use it

And I haven't as such, I was just explaining why I described some people as foreigners as its hard to know what to call them,without someone getting irate,well that worked well didn't it ?:hee:

[Twosugars]

Well lucky,you,Ive often come away from hospital without a clue what has been related to me. it doesn't bother me I just find it a bit embarrassing having to keep saying pardon so most times I just give up as I would never ask to see someone else.
You have the right to understand so I'd ask until I understand.
I rarely see.my GP but she is heavily accented, I was trying to make the point that she is white and still difficult to understand but I trust her judgement and have no issues with the care she gives.

Wasn't having a go, sorry if it came across that way

[Twosugars]

And then I'd drop them off where they came from, yes.

I'm glad we've progressed then

[hijaxers]

Well lucky,you,Ive often come away from hospital without a clue what has been related to me. it doesn't bother me I just find it a bit embarrassing having to keep saying pardon so most times I just give up as I would never ask to see someone else.

Same ~ i rarely understand what my eye doctor is saying as he has a strong accent and talks very fast and i feel its rude to keep saying pardon, but i like him lots so i just get my special prescripton and see him next time :laugh:
I don't care at all what nationality anyone is as long as can do their job and would not dream of asking for a white person .

[Amy Jade]

I will admit,I do have trouble understanding some foreigners as their English is not so good and I find it embarrassing as I am deaf in one ear which makes understanding them worse, but I would never refuse treatment from one most make excellent doctors.A doctor is a doctor no matter what colour they are.

Because all foreigners are non-white and all non-whites are foreign and all foreigners speak bad English, innit. Got you.

That's not fair Redway.

Kazanne was clearly just saying she prefers somebody of good English because she has partial deafness and can struggle understanding otherwise. She even ended her post saying colour/race is irrelevant.

[Twosugars]

I feel it's important those who don't understand ask until they do
It's their right. Coming home frustrated by not understanding can lead to resentment of foreign medics. And it's not doing them a favour either as it leaves them unaware of the problem

[Oliver_W]

I feel it's important those who don't understand ask until they do
It's their right. Coming home frustrated by not understanding can lead to resentment of foreign medics. And it's not doing them a favour either as it leaves them unaware of the problem
For some, if they're hard of hearing or just don't come across funny accents that often, it will never happen, and Dr Hamish McHaggis will have to find someone else to explain

[joeysteele]

I feel it's important those who don't understand ask until they do
It's their right. Coming home frustrated by not understanding can lead to resentment of foreign medics. And it's not doing them a favour either as it leaves them unaware of the problem

That's a strong valid point Twosugars.

It can be very frustrating if you haven't grasped all that was said and re medical matters that's important.

I'd always ask to have anything I hadn't understood clearly to be said again.
I have never had a problem with it as to Doctors of any nationality.

[Kazanne]

That's not fair Redway.

Kazanne was clearly just saying she prefers somebody of good English because she has partial deafness and can struggle understanding otherwise. She even ended her post saying colour/race is irrelevant.

Thanks AJ that is exactly what I meant.

[Redway]

I get that but some are just so eager to pull someone up for anything , its hard to know what to say or call anyone now as I recently quite innocently called someone 'coloured' and got an infraction for it , so just how are we supposed to describe people :shrug:I will probably now get another infraction because I used that naughty word :fist:

Innocent or ignorant?

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Redway;10618003]Innocent or ignorant?[/QUOTE

innocent

[Redway]

Ignorantly really.

That word along with half-caste ain't been acceptable in parlance since the mid-80s at the latest and everyone should know that.

[Kizzy]

Yep refuse to treat, agree with that if your predudice is manifest enough to compromise your own health then there's no helping you anyway.

[Vicky.]

And I haven't as such, I was just explaining why I described some people as foreigners as its hard to know what to call them,without someone getting irate,well that worked well didn't it ?:hee:

I think mtvn was explaining the infraction you got that you were talking about, rather than saying you are doing anything wrong now. Its just well known that 'coloured people' does offend many. Hence, the infraction for when you used it :p

[joeysteele]

Ignorantly really.

That word along with half-caste ain't been acceptable in parlance since the mid-80s at the latest and everyone should know that.

Hi Redway.
I agree with your main paragraph.
Personally, I felt it a word that oughtn't be seen as wrong myself.

However it is, and people are extremely intensely offended by it, hence it not being acceptable.
So you are totally right in that main paragraph.

[Ammi]

...I guess if he had genuine concerns about an aspect of his health...his only thought would be of seeing someone with medical experience ...if he just left then surely he was just ‘trolling’ the hospital and didn’t require any medical assistance...

[Kazanne]

Ignorantly really.

That word along with half-caste ain't been acceptable in parlance since the mid-80s at the latest and everyone should know that.

Well I'm sorry ,I don't spend my days thinking about such things,whether you deem it right or wrong it was never meant as an insult, but you go ahead with your insults

[Kazanne]

I think mtvn was explaining the infraction you got that you were talking about, rather than saying you are doing anything wrong now. Its just well known that 'coloured people' does offend many. Hence, the infraction for when you used it :p

Ok, I have always found MTVN fair and accept that

[user104658]

For some, if they're hard of hearing or just don't come across funny accents that often, it will never happen, and Dr Hamish McHaggis will have to find someone else to explain

Really though? [emoji19]

Tibb's littlest bigot rides again, choo choo! If I hadn't sworn off the gambling game, I'd be taking bets on how much longer your free pass is going to last, Oli.

[Kizzy]

Really though? [emoji19]

Tibb's littlest bigot rides again, choo choo! If I hadn't sworn off the gambling game, I'd be taking bets on how much longer your free pass is going to last, Oli.

You mean bigot mc biggotface?... ;)

[Mokka]

Really though? [emoji19]

Tibb's littlest bigot rides again, choo choo! If I hadn't sworn off the gambling game, I'd be taking bets on how much longer your free pass is going to last, Oli.

This is the Tea

[GiRTh]

Really though? [emoji19]

Tibb's littlest bigot rides again, choo choo! If I hadn't sworn off the gambling game, I'd be taking bets on how much longer your free pass is going to last, Oli.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[lime]

I think mtvn was explaining the infraction you got that you were talking about, rather than saying you are doing anything wrong now. Its just well known that 'coloured people' does offend many. Hence, the infraction for when you used it :p
I think this guy was a Knob and was never refused healthcare.

But in South Africa colored people would be very offended if you called them black.I think kazanne was a wee bit lazy in her post saying that this guy only requested a white so he could understand them as a patient..No he wanted a white because he is a racist....I don't know Kazanne's intentions...but I can hazzard a guess...The word coloured in South Africa is what alot of we white people need to understand is not racist ..it is who they proudly are

[Kazanne]

I think this guy was a Knob and was never refused healthcare.

But in South Africa colored people would be very offended if you called them black.I think kazanne was a wee bit lazy in her post saying that this guy only requested a white so he could understand them as a patient..No he wanted a white because he is a racist....I don't know Kazanne's intentions...but I can hazzard a guess...The word coloured in South Africa is what alot of we white people need to understand is not racist ..it is who they proudly are

This is what I mean lime it's all a bit complicated what is right for some is not right for others , and yes I should have worded it differently but no insult was intended, the thing I was trying to portray is the only problem I have ever had is understanding some people.:wavey:

[Ammi]

..it’s a term that goes back to a time of segregation and a time of white privilege, which is why it’s not a modern day acceptable term...and it implies that ‘colour’ is somehow different when every single one of us has a skin colour...so it would in reality apply to us all...?...

[lime]

..it’s a term that goes back to a time of segregation and a time of white privilege, which is why it’s not a modern day acceptable term...and it implies that ‘colour’ is somehow different when every single one of us has a skin colour...so it would in reality apply to us all...?...

I understand what "coloured " means in the west ...but where I come from ..Africa...coloured people are offended that we whites take their right away...They idendify as coloured...surely that's their right?

It's difficult for them because they are not accepted by Whites/Blacks.

They call theselves colored ..and who am I to deny them:shrug::shrug:

[Tom4784]

If this was actually about accents or something then they would have requested an english doctor, they asked for a white doctor so there's no doubt that they were motivated by racism.

[Mokka]

I understand what "coloured " means in the west ...but where I come from ..Africa...coloured people are offended that we whites take their right away...They idendify as coloured...surely that's their right?

It's difficult for them because they are not accepted by Whites/Blacks.

They call theselves colored ..and who am I to deny them:shrug::shrug:

They call themselves coloured? Or do the actually ask white men to call them coloured.

There is a difference

[Mokka]

If this was actually about accents or something then they would have requested an english doctor, they asked for a white doctor so there's no doubt that they were motivated by racism.

Agreed. The fact this "debate" headed in the direction of justifying this man by changing his words and insinuating different meaning on them says a lot.

[joeysteele]

If this was actually about accents or something then they would have requested an english doctor, they asked for a white doctor so there's no doubt that they were motivated by racism.

Absolutely spot on.
It's crystal clear I'd say.

[Tony Montana]

Really though? [emoji19]

Tibb's littlest bigot rides again, choo choo! If I hadn't sworn off the gambling game, I'd be taking bets on how much longer your free pass is going to last, Oli.

:joker: :clap1:

[Tony Montana]

If this was actually about accents or something then they would have requested an english doctor, they asked for a white doctor so there's no doubt that they were motivated by racism.

QFT!

[Withano]

Good.

[Marsh.]

Either the NHS is for all citizens, or it isn't. Racists deserve treatment as much as anyone else.

So... you're saying the patient should be allowed to be racist and refuse treatment or contact with any non-white staff? :umm2:

[Marsh.]

No one said that but it always takes one to twist it, not going to argue with you ,most people know what I mean most are ok but some are not so clear have you got it now ? or does everything need spelling out nowadays.Jeez, if I had put black person that would have been wrong too ffs,cant say anything now unless someone is crying about it

Well, yeah, if you'd have said "Black people speak bad English" that would've been wrong.

[Marsh.]

Nobody will take it the wrong way, we all struggle with some regional accents and no one bats an eyelid except when the person is black, then we are all racists for struggling

Nobody said it was racist to struggle with another person's accent.

[Marsh.]

That's not fair Redway.

Kazanne was clearly just saying she prefers somebody of good English because she has partial deafness and can struggle understanding otherwise. She even ended her post saying colour/race is irrelevant.

But where did the "foreigner doctor with a dodgy accent" come from?

The story was about a patient not wanting to be treated by a "non-white" doctor.
Redway was pointing out that non-white does not mean the doctor was foreign. Obviously. And not all foreigners are non-white.

[Vicky.]

If this was actually about accents or something then they would have requested an english doctor, they asked for a white doctor so there's no doubt that they were motivated by racism.

Yup.

And tbh, from my experience, 'english' doctors have not really been easier to understand than foreign ones. I have in the past been sent people with very strong accents, and the likes of very strong Scottish or Irish I tend to not understand very well (though Irish, regardless of me being able to understand or not I could listen to all day!). Also one of the GPs in my surgery is English, and from the same area as me but tends to bloody mumble all the time and speak really really fast at others. The amount of 'pardon?!'s I have to do when seeing her is insane really. White would also mean he could be sent, for example a Polish or Russian doctor too, which could maybe not be that easy to understand either depending. And of course, he could be sent a black english doctor too. So yeah, definitely about racism rather than wanting someone he could understand tbh.

[Marsh.]

Well I'm sorry ,I don't spend my days thinking about such things

Oh, so true.

We can't all spend all our lives not being racist. It's SUCH a struggle. You need a degree in it. :think:

[Cherie]

So... you're saying the patient should be allowed to be racist and refuse treatment or contact with any non-white staff? :umm2:

I think what he was saying as that we treat everyone whatever their crime, no one is denied treatment or banned from a hospital even if they have committed the most henious of crimes

[Marsh.]

I think what he was saying as that we treat everyone whatever their crime, no one is denied treatment even if they have committed the most henious of crimes

Well, he's been banned from a hospital in which he was racist towards members of their staff.

He's not been banned from the NHS has he?

Seems he's denying himself treatment.

[Tom4784]

And he won't be denied treatment at the A&E, let's not make the racist out to be a victim here. He looked down on staff members and refused their help if they weren't white and THEN he tried to get the staff in trouble by complaining, overworked staff that keep the NHS affloat and whom we can't afford to lose.

[Vicky.]

Noone would be denied treatment in A&E with an actual emergency. Hell they even treat people who..are known serial killers/terrorists and such. So being a racist twat certainly would not make them say, **** it, let him die.

[Cherie]

Well, he's been banned from a hospital in which he was racist towards members of their staff.

He's not been banned from the NHS has he?

Seems he's denying himself treatment.

And he won't be denied treatment at the A&E, let's not make the racist out to be a victim here. He looked down on staff members and refused their help if they weren't white and THEN he tried to get the staff in trouble by complaining, overworked staff that keep the NHS affloat and whom we can't afford to lose.

Noone would be denied treatment in A&E with an actual emergency. Hell they even treat people who..are known serial killers/terrorists and such. So being a racist twat certainly would not make them say, **** it, let him die.


I was interpreting Olivers comment,he turned up at A and E, so how would it work if he wasn't banned from A and E as well as the hospital itself, if he presents at A and E in the future what will they do if they have to admit him? personally I think he should have been fined for wasting everyones time, hit him/her in his pocket, and eveyone else who rocks up at A an E for non emergencies as well, he was a racist twat yes, did he deserve banning ....not sure he did, just say we cant accommodate your request and you can been seen by the on duty doctors, then it is up to him, and far more humiliating for him (I assume its a him) to have to climb down if he really did need to be seen at some point

[Marsh.]

I was interpreting Olivers comment,he turned up at A and E, so how would it work if he wasn't banned from A and E as well as the hospital itself, if he presents at A and E in the future what will they do if they have to admit him? personally I think he should have been fined for wasting everyones time, hit him/her in his pocket, and eveyone else who rocks up at A an E for non emergencies as well, he was a racist twat yes, did he deserve banning ....not sure he did, just say we cant accommodate your request and you can been seen by the on duty doctors, then it is up to him, and far more humiliating for him (I assume its a him) to have to climb down if he really did need to be seen at some point

A&E was where he refused to accept any treatment and walked out before later making a complaint about the non-white doctors.

The hospital have now banned him for racism.

If he showed up in A&E with an actual emergency in the future they're not going to refuse to treat him.

[Cherie]

A&E was where he refused to accept any treatment and walked out before later making a complaint about the non-white doctors.

The hospital have now banned him for racism.

If he showed up in A&E with an actual emergency in the future they're not going to refuse to treat him.

so whats the point banning him then?

[Marsh.]

so whats the point banning him then?

Well, he can't use the hospital in non-emergency cases, which would amount to 99% of his hospital needs.

[Twosugars]

He wont be able to use outpatient services or inpatient non emergency
Basically he will have to travel further if he needs those.
Idk why this is so hard to understand Cherie
NHS would never deny him treatment if there was no alternative available or if it is emergency

[user104658]

so whats the point banning him then?To put it as simply as we can;

If he has a heart attack they'll treat him. If he wants a vasectomy he's going to have to buy a donut pillow because it'll be a longer drive.

[Redway]

But where did the "foreigner doctor with a dodgy accent" come from?

The story was about a patient not wanting to be treated by a "non-white" doctor.
Redway was pointing out that non-white does not mean the doctor was foreign. Obviously. And not all foreigners are non-white.

Exactly. Kazane's just doing her as per. And I don't believe for a second that she didn't know that coloured's an offensive term.

[Redway]

Well I'm sorry ,I don't spend my days thinking about such things,whether you deem it right or wrong it was never meant as an insult, but you go ahead with your insults

Who's insulting you though?

[Withano]

I recently quite innocently called someone 'coloured' :

Oh hunny no

[bots]

twisting the meaning of posters words, and passive aggressively targeting them to meet your own agenda, is not the spirit of good debate

[Mokka]

twisting the meaning of posters words, and passive aggressively targeting them to meet your own agenda, is not the spirit of good debate

And who are you accusing of this??

[Cherie]

To put it as simply as we can;

If he has a heart attack they'll treat him. If he wants a vasectomy he's going to have to buy a donut pillow because it'll be a longer drive.

So he is not banned in the usual sense of being banned, it’s a partial ban, like when you were banned from SD

I just wonder why when NHS staff are regularly physically and verbally abused why this partial ban shouldn’t be introduced as a regular thing across the board then

[bots]

So he is not banned in the usual sense of being banned, it’s a partial ban, like when you were banned from SD

I just wonder why when NHS staff are regularly physically and verbally abused why this partial ban shouldn’t be introduced as a regular thing across the board then

Round my way it's standard practice. People are barred for misbehaviour from treatment centres, but that ban doesn't include life threatening illness

[Cherie]

Round my way it's standard practice. People are barred for misbehaviour from treatment centres, but that ban doesn't include life threatening illness

Oh that’s good, never heard of this before but it makes a lot of sense, they need to start fining people who turn up at A and E for non emergencies as well

[bots]

Oh that’s good, never heard of this before but it makes a lot of sense, they need to start fining people who turn up at A and E for non emergencies as well

i've seen seemingly innocuous people threaten doctors receptionists for completely trivial reasons and that has to stop, so I'm all for it. If people can't put their point across politely, they shouldn't be there.

[Ammi]

...I think there is a notice up in most..(..if not all..)..A & E sections ...as well as in most..(..if not all..)..GP surgeries..a zero tolerance policy notice of verbal and physical abuse etc...and although NHS treatment is not being denied as a whole...it can obviously be denied at a particular medical establishment if it’s non emergency/non life threatening...I’m guessing that zero tolerance is usually upheld, it’s just that this incident has gained media interest...

[Ammi]

i've seen seemingly innocuous people threaten doctors receptionists for completely trivial reasons and that has to stop, so I'm all for it. If people can't put their point across politely, they shouldn't be there.

...well that’s the thing really...innocuous is not a physical thing that can be seen or something we could know about someone...they were obviously not innocuous if their behaviour was threatening...

[Cherie]

...I think there is a notice up in most..(..if not all..)..A & E sections ...as well as in most..(..if not all..)..a zero tolerance policy notice of verbal and physical abuse etc...and although NHS treatment is not being denied as a whole...it can obviously be denied at a particular medical establishment if it’s non emergency/non life threatening...I’m guessing that zero tolerance is usually upheld, it’s just that this incident has gained media interest...

Yes I have seen those notices, they are everywhere now, the tube, supermarkets, cinemas etc, but I didn't know what people were actually banned, I guess it is easier to do this in a hospital setting as a note can be put on file, far more difficult to implement in other areas of life unfortunately

With regard to media interest I think someone being physically attacked should take precedence over someone being a complete twat which I think most people can get over more than a physical assault.

[AnnieK]

A girl I work with got a letter from our local hospital warning her that she would be banned if she took her kids to A and E for non emergency situations again. She was a very nervous parent when they were young and did take them a lot for things that a pharmacist could have advised on. She was mortified after getting the letter and actually relaxed a little

[Ammi]

...sorry I don’t understand..this incident of racism didn’t take priority over an ongoing physical attack...a zero policy is a protection of staff from all abuse, both verbal and physical...

[Cherie]

...sorry I don’t understand..this incident of racism didn’t take priority over an ongoing physical attack...a zero policy is a protection of staff from all abuse, both verbal and physical...

My comment was in regard to the media interest, I have never seen a 'banned from hospital' story before, maybe there have been dozens and I haven't seen them though

[Kizzy]

Yes I have seen those notices, they are everywhere now, the tube, supermarkets, cinemas etc, but I didn't know what people were actually banned, I guess it is easier to do this in a hospital setting as a note can be put on file, far more difficult to implement in other areas of life unfortunately

With regard to media interest I think someone being physically attacked should take precedence over someone being a complete twat which I think most people can get over more than a physical assault.
Get over your racial abuse...it's not like youve been punched in the face! Is that what you're saying?

[joeysteele]

...sorry I don’t understand..this incident of racism didn’t take priority over an ongoing physical attack...a zero policy is a protection of staff from all abuse, both verbal and physical...

Yes that's what zero means Ammi.

2 of my cousins were Doctors, on times they were in a&e at times, they came across verbal and physical incidents.
Some were frightening too.
They no longer work in the UK though,having gone abroad to do their medical work after this government's appalling treatment of junior Doctors.

This request from this 'patient', was clearly fuelled from his own unacceptable racism.
I can't see how any cannot see that, if they don't.
Racism will come under the zero tolerance criteria too, as it is abuse in itself.

[Ammi]

...(..I’m hoping...)...there aren’t many mindsets of demanding a ‘white doctor and not a foreigner’ and that it’s a more rare occurrence in A & E..so I would say there are specifics with this incident which gained the interest of national media...

[bots]

i think we need to be careful and look at the specifics. I'm perfectly entitled to go to a hospital and request to be treated by someone with red hair and tattoos of Margaret Thatcher. The hospital is equally entitled to say that's not possible. If I then cause a disturbance because I am not able to get what I want, I'm at fault for creating the disturbance, and that's what I would be banned for.

[Ammi]

i think we need to be careful and look at the specifics. I'm perfectly entitled to go to a hospital and request to be treated by someone with red hair and tattoos of Margaret Thatcher. The hospital is equally entitled to say that's not possible. If I then cause a disturbance because I am not able to get what I want, I'm at fault for creating the disturbance, and that's what I would be banned for.

...you would be banned for the disturbance for sure...(...typical of you with your disturbing behaviour, bots...:laugh:..)...but your demands of a specific medical person did not show a prejudice because of race, religion, sexuality etc...in this incident that was the case ...you were just unreasonable, this is prejudice ..they can’t be quite comparable in the same way...

[Ammi]

...I read that this was also reported to the police for ‘hate speech’...whether charges will be brought, I don’t know...

[Cherie]

Get over your racial abuse...it's not like youve been punched in the face! Is that what you're saying?

No

[lime]

They call themselves coloured? Or do the actually ask white men to call them coloured.

There is a difference

Thats just a silly post.Coloured people do not ask or seek permission to be called coloured...they are coloured with their own culture and my fok they make a lekker curry...My best friend Magda is coloured and I have shown her these post's.It upsets her as a colured woman to see her culture as offensive

[smudgie]

Thats just a silly post.Coloured people do not ask or seek permission to be called coloured...they are coloured with their own culture and my fok they make a lekker curry...My best friend Magda is coloured and I have shown her these post's.It upsets her as a colured woman to see her culture as offensive

South African culture is not understood as much in the West Lime.
Coloureds or Cape coloureds as they were known are proud of their culture.

[Ammi]

...so in South Africa ‘coloured’ is a specific term used to denote a multi-heritage, is that what you’re saying, Lime...but the term in the U.K. and indeed also in Canada where Mokka is from...does not imply the same meaning...it’s an out-dated terminology that implied a ‘non-white’ skin colouring and the ‘white colouring’ being considered ‘the norm’....

[lime]

...so in South Africa ‘coloured’ is a specific term used to denote a multi-heritage, is that what you’re saying, Lime...but the term in the U.K. and indeed also in Canada where Mokka is from...does not imply the same meaning...it’s an out-dated terminology that implied a ‘non-white’ skin colouring and the ‘white colouring’ being considered ‘the norm’....

Ammi you are one of my favortie posters here .I don't like that you use the words that coloured is term to denot a person of multi-heritage...Coloured people are coloured people and very proudly so....It is not a term used by "White men"as Mokkka has said.Many people are multi-heritage....that doesn't make them coloured...I am struggling to understand that people fail to understand that saying colored is offensive whilst knowing that saying Magda and her family as very proud colored people are upset when in the west their culure is described as offensive:shrug::shrug:

[lime]

South African culture is not understood as much in the West Lime.
Coloureds or Cape coloureds as they were known are proud of their culture.

I am beginig to see it Smudgie:love::love:

[user104658]

...so in South Africa ‘coloured’ is a specific term used to denote a multi-heritage, is that what you’re saying, Lime...but the term in the U.K. and indeed also in Canada where Mokka is from...does not imply the same meaning...it’s an out-dated terminology that implied a ‘non-white’ skin colouring and the ‘white colouring’ being considered ‘the norm’....I think that's the issue really, the white-by-default. Either "default" or "coloured" which makes it quite a loaded term.

[Cherie]

South African culture is not understood as much in the West Lime.
Coloureds or Cape coloureds as they were known are proud of their culture.

Interesting post Smudge

[user104658]

Ammi you are one of my favortie posters here .I don't like that you use the words that coloured is term to denot a person of multi-heritage...Coloured people are coloured people and very proudly so....It is not a term used by "White men"as Mokkka has said.Many people are multi-heritage....that doesn't make them coloured...I am struggling to understand that people fail to understand that saying colored is offensive whilst knowing that saying Magda and her family as very proud colored people are upset when in the west their culure is described as offensive:shrug::shrug:

I think the issue is that the word has been used differently in UK and US English, and so in different parts of the world there are going to be different connotations. Basically... I doubt many people (black or white) know what "coloured" refers to in South Africa.

That said in all honestly avoiding controversy can seem difficult at times. For example, Will Smith was on a Graham Norton recently and referred to himself and others as "people of colour" which I thought was considered out of date / offensive, as I've ALSO seen black actors in interviews insisting "just say black". :shrug:. Though Will Smith is getting on a bit so maybe he is using out of date terminology?

[Ammi]

Ammi you are one of my favortie posters here .I don't like that you use the words that coloured is term to denot a person of multi-heritage...Coloured people are coloured people and very proudly so....It is not a term used by "White men"as Mokkka has said.Many people are multi-heritage....that doesn't make them coloured...I am struggling to understand that people fail to understand that saying colored is offensive whilst knowing that saying Magda and her family as very proud colored people are upset when in the west their culure is described as offensive:shrug::shrug:

...Mokka hasn’t said that though, Lime...she has asked how the term is used in South Africa, as you’ve stated it has a different meaning and no negative connotations whatsoever...that isn’t the case in other parts of the world though...and my question wasn’t meant to offend...I truly apologise to you if it did...again I was trying to understand how the term ‘colour’ is applied in South Africa ...if it applied to those of a multi heritage...but obviously it doesn’t...

[Ammi]

South African culture is not understood as much in the West Lime.
Coloureds or Cape coloureds as they were known are proud of their culture.

I am beginig to see it Smudgie:love::love:

..I promise I will do my reading up on ‘coloured’ and ‘cape coloured’, ladies...

[Ammi]

I think that's the issue really, the white-by-default. Either "default" or "coloured" which makes it quite a loaded term.

..yeah and the mindset of ‘no coloured’ which was so frequent of a time, also denoted a white superiority...

[bots]

There are so many terms that are deemed offensive that it is quite difficult to keep up in these times. Look even at Islamic State, that was deemed offensive so it morphed to "so called Islamic State" and the to daesh. By the time it got to daesh everyone was going who?

It's quite right not to be deliberately offensive, but many will make unintentional mistakes and it does become really difficult to keep up with what is correct and what's not

[Ammi]

There are so many terms that are deemed offensive that it is quite difficult to keep up in these times. Look even at Islamic State, that was deemed offensive so it morphed to "so called Islamic State" and the to daesh. By the time it got to daesh everyone was going who?

It's quite right not to be deliberately offensive, but many will make unintentional mistakes and it does become really difficult to keep up with what is correct and what's not

..yeah I think that ‘coloured’ was just questioned though because it’s widely known it hasn’t been deemed acceptable for decades...unacceptable and offensive terms can be used unintentionally, of course...?...but it’s also important to question when and how they are used, I think...

[Vicky.]

That some people are happy with, or proud of being called coloured, does not take away from the fact that many many black people in the UK/USA have said that using that term to describe them is offensive. As such, its been widely known for a while that coloured is not a term that should be used for us. I get that it can be a bit confusing at times to know what is and is not offensive as it tends to change a lot and what one black person says could be the opposite of what others say. But still, coloured has been widely demeed offensive so..well I won't use it as I know that.

This does not mean I am trying to erase the culture of those who do chose to call themselves coloured, or that saying because the word is offensive to many means I am saying their culture is offensive or anything. Just that I acknowledge repeated requests from many in the black community that such terms not be applied to them.

This coloured/black/whatever thing is kind of not the point of this thread though. Regardless of what terminology this guy used, I would think that everyone on here (and its rare that we have a unianimus/nearly unanimous thread) would agree that such prejudice, especially in what is supposed to be an emergency situation, is ridiculous.

[lime]

..I promise I will do my reading up on ‘coloured’ and ‘cape coloured’, ladies...
I know Ammi you meant no offfence,,,but do read up on coloured people..My best freind is coloured and it does upset them to hear coloured is an insult.I moved to Ireland in 1999 and I can honestly say the Irish /coloured culture are very simular:love::love:

[Twosugars]

There are so many terms that are deemed offensive that it is quite difficult to keep up in these times. Look even at Islamic State, that was deemed offensive so it morphed to "so called Islamic State" and the to daesh. By the time it got to daesh everyone was going who?

It's quite right not to be deliberately offensive, but many will make unintentional mistakes and it does become really difficult to keep up with what is correct and what's not

These terms were not deemed offensive at all. The multitude of acronyms were to do with different translations of the name like ISIS and ISIL in English or using the Arabic acronym of the name, Daesh.
Adding "so called" was to underline that it was not recognised as a state.
Not a good example, bots.

[lime]

I think the issue is that the word has been used differently in UK and US English, and so in different parts of the world there are going to be different connotations. Basically... I doubt many people (black or white) know what "coloured" refers to in South Africa.

That said in all honestly avoiding controversy can seem difficult at times. For example, Will Smith was on a Graham Norton recently and referred to himself and others as "people of colour" which I thought was considered out of date / offensive, as I've ALSO seen black actors in interviews insisting "just say black". :shrug:. Though Will Smith is getting on a bit so maybe he is using out of date terminology?

It is the issue and it was wrong of me to presmume that outside of Africa people would know what coloured meant.


I do get "coloured" is used as an offensive word in the west.It's a community of great people in South Africa...I am the godmother of two coloured girls

[Twosugars]

After wikipedia



In British usage, the term refers to "a person who is wholly or partly of non-white descent" and its use may be regarded as antiquated or offensive,[6][7] and other terms are preferable, particularly when referring to a single ethnicity.

In South Africa, the term coloureds is used to describe people of a mixed parentage.[8] Thus South Africa has people broadly classified as four races, namely Blacks, Whites, Coloureds and Indians.[9]



Looks like theres a difference how the term coloured is perceived in these two countries.
It's ok in SA but it is offensive here. Cultural differences.

[Cherie]

Not so long ago, it used to be offensive to refer to people as brown....not any more!

we can also refer to people of colour ... its a constantly changing minefield, and I do believe there are still people left who have no idea that using the term 'coloured' is offensive and would be mortified at using it if they did

[Livia]

Not so long ago, it used to be offensive to refer to people as brown....not any more!

we can also refer to people of colour ... its a constantly changing minefield, and I do believe there are still people left who have no idea that using the term 'coloured' is offensive and would be mortified at using it if they did

My grandmother has several "coloured" friends. She thinks it's terrible to call people black. She obviously means no offence. Of course, she's in her 90s... But I suppose those of us who will live into our 90s will also fall foul of the currently acceptable words.

[Kizzy]

Maybe the days of categorising our friends or doctors by colour are dying out?

[Mokka]

Maybe the days of categorising our friends or doctors by colour are dying out?

Wouldn't that be nice :flutter:

[Northern Monkey]

Who even decides what the latest offensive term is.It changes so bleedin often these days.
Is there some grand high comittee making new rules every couple of years?

And how is ‘people of colour’ any better than ‘coloured’.

[Kizzy]

Yes I should like to know what is deemed offensive these days too, could someone please whitesplain it to me?

[Oliver_W]

And how is ‘people of colour’ any better than ‘coloured’.
I think "people of colour" is mostly an American thing, to the point where seeing "colour" spelled in the correct way just looks wrong when used in the phrase.

[montblanc]

And how is ‘people of colour’ any better than ‘coloured’.

:skull:

[montblanc]

racism kills x

[Marsh.]

Who even decides what the latest offensive term is.It changes so bleedin often these days.
Is there some grand high comittee making new rules every couple of years?

I know, it's SO difficult to not be racist.

[Mokka]

Yes I should like to know what is deemed offensive these days too, could someone please whitesplain it to me?

:joker::joker:

It's official... I missed you on here lol

[Livia]

I am amused that some of the people outraged about this are the same people who will say that any anti-Semitism in Labour is over-exaggerated and just a ploy to bring down the party.

[Kizzy]

I am amused that some of the people outraged about this are the same people who will say that any anti-Semitism in Labour is over-exaggerated and just a ploy to bring down the party.

I'm amused how some on here can be adamant that Anti-Semetism exists in the Labour party with no evidence (apart from the 0.01% obviously) but refuses to accept racism does..even when it's right in front of you :/

[Cherie]

I'm amused how some on here can be adamant that Anti-Semetism exists in the Labour party with no evidence (apart from the 0.01% obviously) but refuses to accept racism does..even when it's right in front of you :/

Who has said racism doesn't exist :umm2: , the conversation has moved on to acceptable terminology, and its ever changing face, if I didn't post on TiBB I doubt I would be aware of the term POC and I remember when it was first used in BB related post, a lot of people had to ask what the it stood for as they had never heard it used previously

[Kizzy]

Nope the conversation has moved on to why 'coloured' should be an acceptable term. We've had the , well they like it!.. the, it was perfectly acceptable 50 yr ago! and now what? I'm just so ignorant I can't be held responsible for offending people?...

[Twosugars]

Nope the conversation has moved on to why 'coloured' should be an acceptable term. We've had the , well they like it!.. the, it was perfectly acceptable 50 yr ago! and now what? I'm just so ignorant I can't be held responsible for offending people?...

You've summed up the thread quite well actually

[joeysteele]

Nope the conversation has moved on to why 'coloured' should be an acceptable term. We've had the , well they like it!.. the, it was perfectly acceptable 50 yr ago! and now what? I'm just so ignorant I can't be held responsible for offending people?...

Indeed.
Very well said Kizzy.
Nothing more to add, I agree with Twosugars, you summed it up well.

[GiRTh]

Nope the conversation has moved on to why 'coloured' should be an acceptable term. We've had the , well they like it!.. the, it was perfectly acceptable 50 yr ago! and now what? I'm just so ignorant I can't be held responsible for offending people?...You've summed up about a dozen threads in Sd in one post. :clap1:

[lime]

You've summed up about a dozen threads in Sd in one post. :clap1:

For the first time you have dissapointed me ...Colored means something differerent in Africa...It's not a case of like in US during segeration that areas were allocated to "colored " During Aparhereid it was whites only..

[lime]

Nope the conversation has moved on to why 'coloured' should be an acceptable term. We've had the , well they like it!.. the, it was perfectly acceptable 50 yr ago! and now what? I'm just so ignorant I can't be held responsible for offending people?...

The only ignorant comment is coming from YOU,I dare you to go to SA and call colored people black...

It's not a case of they accepted it ..During Apartheid..It was WHITES ONLY..So coloured and black were not accpeted ,,,come back to me what you have spend a day in Africa

[Livia]

When a Muslim man demands that only a female doctor can touch his wife or daughter, is that sexist? Or is that acceptable?

[smudgie]

The only ignorant comment is coming from YOU,I dare you to go to SA and call colored people black...

It's not a case of they accepted it ..During Apartheid..It was WHITES ONLY..So coloured and black were not accpeted ,,,come back to me what you have spend a day in Africa

Quite frustrating Lime hey.
Coloured is derogatory in British culture, Colored is something to be proud of in South African culture.

[Cherie]

The only ignorant comment is coming from YOU,I dare you to go to SA and call colored people black...

It's not a case of they accepted it ..During Apartheid..It was WHITES ONLY..So coloured and black were not accpeted ,,,come back to me what you have spend a day in Africa

Quite frustrating Lime hey.
Coloured is derogatory in British culture, Colored is something to be proud of in South African culture.

Your personal experiences or the fact that you actually lived in Africa matter not a jot, we must all fall in to line and use acceptable UK terminology even if this is not wanted or needed by the people being addressed….white saviours eh

[Twosugars]

Your personal experiences or the fact that you actually lived in Africa matter not a jot, we must all fall in to line and use acceptable UK terminology even if this is not wanted or needed by the people being addressed….white saviours eh

How do you know its unwanted or not needed? Proof?

[Livia]

Your personal experiences or the fact that you actually lived in Africa matter not a jot, we must all fall in to line and use acceptable UK terminology even if this is not wanted or needed by the people being addressed….white saviours eh

It's hardly ever the people actually involved who make the most noise.

[Mokka]

For the first time you have dissapointed me ...Colored means something differerent in Africa...It's not a case of like in US during segeration that areas were allocated to "colored " During Aparhereid it was whites only..

We have all accepted that in South Africa that the term has been claimed differently... but in North America and obviously the UK it still is not an acceptable way to address anyone. It's associated with slavery and ownership. It is not uplifting but a way for the white man to keep a foot on the neck of African people.
Why can't you accept the term means something different in another part of the world... the part we are discussing.

[Cherie]

How do you know its unwanted or not needed? Proof?

Lime has just posted why it is unacceptable in SA? its safe to say that in it is the same in other African countries as well, for the record I would never use the word, my point was that what can and can't be used is not set in stone, when my son started primary school less than 20 years ago, you could not call someone brown, now you can, I would never have heard of PoC unless I was on Tibb, not everyone uses forums or social media, so its understandable that some people particularly older people will use terminology and not realise that they are being insulting

[Cherie]

It's hardly ever the people actually involved who make the most noise.

So true Livia

[GiRTh]

For the first time you have dissapointed me ...Colored means something differerent in Africa...It's not a case of like in US during segeration that areas were allocated to "colored " During Aparhereid it was whites only..I think Kizzys point is perfect on how the subject has changed in this thread.

[GiRTh]

When a Muslim man demands that only a female doctor can touch his wife or daughter, is that sexist? Or is that acceptable?
Do you have an example? When that happens we'll discuss it? :thumbs:

[GiRTh]

It's hardly ever the people actually involved who make the most noise.Not sure how this comment is relevant? Who are the people making the most noise?

[GiRTh]

Lime has just posted why it is unacceptable in SA? its safe to say that in it is the same in other African countries as well, for the record I would never use the word, my point was that what can and can't be used is not set in stone, when my son started primary school less than 20 years ago, you could not call someone brown, now you can, I would never have heard of PoC unless I was on Tibb, not everyone uses forums or social media, so its understandable that some people particularly older people will use terminology and not realise that they are being insultingSo do you find it a huge problem then? Are you complaining on behalf of the elderly?

[Twosugars]

Lime has just posted why it is unacceptable in SA? its safe to say that in it is the same in other African countries as well, for the record I would never use the word, my point was that what can and can't be used is not set in stone, when my son started primary school less than 20 years ago, you could not call someone brown, now you can, I would never have heard of PoC unless I was on Tibb, not everyone uses forums or social media, so its understandable that some people particularly older people will use terminology and not realise that they are being insulting

I know, I posted the bit from wikipedia about how the term coloured is perceived in SA and UK. There're cultural differences no question. But we need to be primarily concerned how things are seen in our culture. And as it happens the term coloured has bad connotations due to the segregation era in the US.
In SA it's not the case so Lime has a point about that there.
As whites the best we can do is to listen to black people in our midst and respect their wishes as to terminology. We cant make lazy excuses that something was ok 50 years ago or that we're ignorant. It's not that difficult to move with the times.

[Kizzy]

The only ignorant comment is coming from YOU,I dare you to go to SA and call colored people black...

It's not a case of they accepted it ..During Apartheid..It was WHITES ONLY..So coloured and black were not accpeted ,,,come back to me what you have spend a day in Africa

Thanks for the hypothetical ...I dont live in Africa, I can only comment from a perspective that is relevant here which on this instance is within the UK.
I haven't advocated calling anyone anything btw :/

[Kizzy]

When a Muslim man demands that only a female doctor can touch his wife or daughter, is that sexist? Or is that acceptable?

Another hypothetical that has little to do with the thread in fairness, I am always asked if I would prefer a female doctor for some consultations so it's not really comparable.

[Tom4784]

When a Muslim man demands that only a female doctor can touch his wife or daughter, is that sexist? Or is that acceptable?

That's a very dumb hypothetical because it has no relation to the original story. The man in story went to a hospital and demanded to see a white doctor, when they couldn't do that, he refused help and complained. There was no reason to his preference other than racism.

In your situation, the hospital would oblige if they can if it involved intimate examination, being uncomfortable with a doctor of the opposite sex handling your business is different to flat out refusing to see a non-white doctor. I shouldn't have to explain why because it's obvious. Also making your example about a muslim person is strange and rather telling in itself.

[Cherie]

So do you find it a huge problem then? Are you complaining on behalf of the elderly?

I am not complaining about anything or speaking on behalf of anybody apart from myself, just saying there is a couple of generations out there who don't sit on the net all day or do social media or watch reality tv so keeping up with a changing situation isn't as simple as it is made out, as an example PoC I have mainly come across on TiBB, I have rarely heard this used in rl

[Mokka]

I am not complaining about anything or speaking on behalf of anybody apart from myself, just saying there is a couple of generations out there who don't sit on the net all day or do social media or watch reality tv so keeping up with a changing situation isn't as simple as it is made out, as an example PoC I have mainly come across on TiBB, I have rarely heard this used in rl

And yet for the entirety of my 40+ years in the planet.... predating the internet... calling someone coloured in western culture has been considered a racist term.
This is not a new thing

[GiRTh]

I am not complaining about anything or speaking on behalf of anybody apart from myself, just saying there is a couple of generations out there who don't sit on the net all day or do social media or watch reality tv so keeping up with a changing situation isn't as simple as it is made out, as an example PoC I have mainly come across on TiBB, I have rarely heard this used in rlA couple of generations? Immigrants have been in this country since the 50's. That generations will be in their 90's now. All generations after have no excuse.

I dont see the point you're trying to make here. It seems like you're saying 'let these people be with their ignorance' if so then I have to differ with you. I dont think it takes a lot of effort from someone who want to try.

[Twosugars]

I've heard an old woman referring to person of colour as "one of them". She was racist and proud of it. Some oldies just dont care about other people's feelings and wallow in discriminatory terminology. Prince Phillip comes to mind. Somehow they think they've earned a right to be nasty.:shrug:

[bots]

i think the "problem" is in the rapid changing of what is correct to say and what isn't. I'm on the net and fairly aware of what's going on in the world and I have difficulty keeping up, so someone that isn't particularly socially aware is going to get in to difficulties easily. That's not making excuses for anyone, we should always try not to offend, but it can be easily done if you are not aware.

[Cherie]

i think the "problem" is in the rapid changing of what is correct to say and what isn't. I'm on the net and fairly aware of what's going on in the world and I have difficulty keeping up, so someone that isn't particularly socially aware is going to get in to difficulties easily. That's not making excuses for anyone, we should always try not to offend, but it can be easily done if you are not aware.

and that is exactly the point I am trying to make BOTs, we are continually told the younger generations are more accepting, more tolerant etc, but only it seems when they choose to, I am not saying everyone over 75 is unaware but there is a large percentage that isn't

[Cherie]

A couple of generations? Immigrants have been in this country since the 50's. That generations will be in their 90's now. All generations after have no excuse.

I dont see the point you're trying to make here. It seems like you're saying 'let these people be with their ignorance' if so then I have to differ with you. I dont think it takes a lot of effort from someone who want to try.

20 years ago it was not acceptable to call a black person brown, now it fine, the point I am making is that the terminology and what is acceptable and what is not changes, it is not set in stone

[Cherie]

I've heard an old woman referring to person of colour as "one of them". She was racist and proud of it. Some oldies just dont care about other people's feelings and wallow in discriminatory terminology. Prince Phillip comes to mind. Somehow they think they've earned a right to be nasty.:shrug:

well of course some oldies don't care and are racist, same as some young people and I have not once generalised, I have said SOME older people may not be aware they are being offensive, there is no excuse for the younger ones though, as they are never off twitter

[GiRTh]

20 years ago it was not acceptable to call a black person brown, now it fine, the point I am making is that the terminology and what is acceptable and what is not changes, it is not set in stoneThis is a false statement. I have no recollection of people using the word 'brown'. In what context are you on about? This is news to me and I reckon I know a few things about this subject. Are you making this up?

[Cherie]

This is false statement. I have no recollection of people using the word 'brown'. In what context are you on about? This is news to me and I reckon I know a few things about this subject. Are you making this up?

In reference to calling people black, 20 years ago you could not refer to people as brown, they had to be called black..... now people are happy to be referred to as brown are they not?

[Cherie]

I am not in the habit of making things up btw

[GiRTh]

In reference to calling people black, 20 years ago you could not refer to people as brown, they had to be called black..... now people are happy to be referred to as brown are they not?I think you've tied your self in knots and you're talking about two different things.

[Cherie]

I think you've tied your self in knots and you're talking about two different things.

No I know what I am talking about, you appear to be having difficulty with just about every point I make, so I think it best we leave it there.

[GiRTh]

I am not in the habit of making things up btw
What conclusion should I come to when you so clearly - how should I put this - dont quite fully grasp every aspect of the issue.

[Cherie]

What conclusion should I come to when you so clearly - how should I put this - dont quite fully grasp every aspect of the issue.

whatever, I could say the same about you.

[GiRTh]

No I know what I am talking about, you appear to be having difficulty with just about every point I make, so I think it best we leave it there.
No you are wrong and you are not making sense. We can do whatever you want but you made a statement that I replied to and now you're talking stuff that I don t get and doesn't make sense to me. And as I've said I know a few things about this subject. Dont worry about my knowledge just try and make sense.

[GiRTh]

whatever, I could say the same about you.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Is that a joke. It made me laugh.

[Cherie]

No you are wrong and you are not making sense. We can do whatever you want but you made a statement that I replied to and now you're talking stuff that I don t get and doesn't make sense to me. And as I've said I know a few things about this subject. Dont worry about my knowledge just try and make sense.

Bots had no trouble understanding my point, strange that ....

[Cherie]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Is that a joke. It made me laugh.

Oh well I am glad I was able to get through to you on some level today

:douf:

[GiRTh]

Bots had no trouble understanding my point, strange that ....Dont bring other FM's in this. TBH if Bots thinks the progress over the past 50 years has been 'rapid' well.....:shrug:

[GiRTh]

Oh well I am glad I was able to get through to you on some level today

:douf:No you dont make sense in this thread and I'd like to further explore the aspect of 'brown'. :conf::conf::conf::conf::conf:

[Cherie]

Dont bring other FM's in this. TBH if Bots thinks the progress over the past 50 years has been 'rapid' well.....:shrug:

Why can't I bring him into it, because you say so?, he understood the point I was making, and you didn't so the issue appears to be yours

[Beso]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=928261830580422&id=501817969891479&sfnsn=mo

[GiRTh]

Why can't I bring him into it, because you say so?, he understood the point I was making, and you didn't so the issue appears to be yoursDeflect onto me eh? Come on!!!!

You've made a few strange statements in this thread. The one I pointed out was not the first but it was the first I responded to. :thumbs:

[GiRTh]

Not so long ago, it used to be offensive to refer to people as brown....not any more!

we can also refer to people of colour ... its a constantly changing minefield, and I do believe there are still people left who have no idea that using the term 'coloured' is offensive and would be mortified at using it if they did

Here's one.

Your personal experiences or the fact that you actually lived in Africa matter not a jot, we must all fall in to line and use acceptable UK terminology even if this is not wanted or needed by the people being addressed….white saviours ehHere's another

[Beso]

I've heard an old woman referring to person of colour as "one of them". She was racist and proud of it. Some oldies just dont care about other people's feelings and wallow in discriminatory terminology. Prince Phillip comes to mind. Somehow they think they've earned a right to be nasty.:shrug:

Maybe she just didn't know what the correct term is these days her being old and that.?

[Cherie]

Deflect onto me eh? Come on!!!!

You've made a few strange statements in this thread. The one I pointed out was not the first but it was the first I responded to. :thumbs:


Okay :thumbs:

[Twosugars]

Maybe she just didn't know what the correct term is these days her being old and that.?

You think she didn't know the words like black, Asian etc?
She did. But she preferred "them". Like in "oh I dont go into central London, it's full of them"

[Marsh.]

I am not complaining about anything or speaking on behalf of anybody apart from myself, just saying there is a couple of generations out there who don't sit on the net all day or do social media or watch reality tv so keeping up with a changing situation isn't as simple as it is made out, as an example PoC I have mainly come across on TiBB, I have rarely heard this used in rl

This suggests there is some kind of memo sent out to social media and reality tv about it?

Nobody needs a subscription, an internet connection or a secret club. They just have to live in the world. :think:

[Gstar]

"Racism is in the past" they said

[lime]

When a Muslim man demands that only a female doctor can touch his wife or daughter, is that sexist? Or is that acceptable?

Not sure how a muslim is brought into this...unless of course you are talking about how the black muslims (shopowners ) are being burn alive in Sa

Muslim families are been tortured and murdered in SA because of their religion..They work hard but still are not accepted

[lime]

Your personal experiences or the fact that you actually lived in Africa matter not a jot, we must all fall in to line and use acceptable UK terminology even if this is not wanted or needed by the people being addressed….white saviours eh

Thats a very silly post Cherie.You obviusly do not understand coloured people...I don't think think you understand and thats OK..Ignorace is bliss...On a final note it matters more than a jot that white folks refuse to acknoledge coloured people...I actually believe you think you are right and you mean no offence.But you do

[lime]

Nope the conversation has moved on to why 'coloured' should be an acceptable term. We've had the , well they like it!.. the, it was perfectly acceptable 50 yr ago! and now what? I'm just so ignorant I can't be held responsible for offending people?...

You really do not get that a coloured person is a very proud person.If you think they want or need you to speack for them you are wrong...nothing to do with 50 yrs ago...they were coloured then and they are coloured now...


If you want to know what is offensive in Africa ...for me is watching South African (not the Zulu) burning burning each other alive..Xenophobia is the biggest problem in Africa ATM..For the love of all things sacred...maybe spend a weekend in SA before you pas judgement on stupid terminoligy...people are dying..children are missing..and all you want to mention is what is the least offensive term

[lime]

Quite frustrating Lime hey.
Coloured is derogatory in British culture, Colored is something to be proud of in South African culture.

:shrug::shrug:

[user104658]

To be fair lime you seem to be hyper-focussed on what the term means in SA, which is understandable given your personal connection to SA, but it really has very little to do with the word being used in a wider context where it meant something completely different?

[lime]

To be fair lime you seem to be hyper-focussed on what the term means in SA, which is understandable given your personal connection to SA, but it really has very little to do with the word being used in a wider context where it meant something completely different?

I really don't think i am hyper-focussed on what coloured means..I just feel that alot of white people in the west get offended by coloured people being called coloured people...but do not focus on the fact of the strife in their lives..It's very hard for them...not accepted by blacks /whites.They have alot more strife in their lives than caring who in the west is worried about them being coloured