Scarlett Johanssen's casting controversy

[Tom4784]

Scarlett Johansson has addressed the casting controversies she became embroiled in over the past few years, maintaining that she should be “allowed to play anyone”.

In 2018, the actor stepped down from playing a trans male character in new film Rub & Tug after receiving widespread backlash for the casting decision.

The move angered many trans actors and queer activists, who argued that there was an entire roster of trans male actors to play the role instead of her.

Johansson had earlier acknowledged those who criticised her decision to star in the film with a statement that read: “Tell them that they can be directed to Jeffrey Tambor, Jared Leto, and Felicity Huffman’s reps for comment.”

She later called her comments “insensitive” and said: “Our cultural understanding of transgender people continues to advance, and I’ve learned a lot from the community since making my first statement about my casting.”

Now, in a new interview with As If magazine – which the Avengers: Endgame star is now claiming has been “edited for clickbait” – said: “You know, as an actor I should be allowed to play any person, or any tree, or any animal because that is my job and the requirements of my job.”

“I feel like it’s a trend in my business and it needs to happen for various social reasons, yet there are times it does get uncomfortable when it affects the art because I feel art should be free of restrictions,” Johansson continued, adding that “society would be more connected if we just allowed others to have their own feelings and not expect everyone to feel the way we do”.

Just one year earlier, criticism was sparked upon the announcement Johansson was to play the lead in a live-action version of Japanese anime Ghost in the Shell; fans accused it of being another example of Hollywood “whitewashing”.

Just one year earlier, criticism was sparked upon the announcement Johansson was to play the lead in a live-action version of Japanese anime Ghost in the Shell; fans accused it of being another example of Hollywood “whitewashing”.

Scarlett Johansson says controversial casting comments were ‘edited’
In Marie Claire’s March cover interview, Johansson said: “I certainly would never presume to play another race of a person. Diversity is important in Hollywood, and I would never want to feel like I was playing a character that was offensive.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/scarlett-johansson-avengers-endgame-rub-and-tug-trans-role-ghost-in-the-shell-whitewashing-diversity-a9003991.html

The story is a few days old but it's one that promotes an interesting conversation. For the sake of clarity, ScarJo has since clarified her comments to essentially say that acting should be free of political correctness and that it's an actor's job to embody someone other than themselves.

When it comes to race, I think racebending is fine as long as the character's race isn't an important part of the story but I don't think a white person should ever play a black character or a black character play an asian person ETC. The creator of Ghost in the Shell actually supported her casting but I remember feeling uncomfortable when she went around calling herself 'Motoko Kusanagi'. I think there's wriggle room when it comes to stories like Ghost in the Shell but I just think that film handled it poorly. I think Altered Carbon did a better job of telling that kind of story better.

I do disagree with controversies surrounding cisgendered actors portraying trans characters though. I think it's great if you can cast a trans person in the role but I think the story is often more important than the actor portraying it. I also think there's a certain level of hypocrisy in the reaction to Scarlett being cast in that film that was highlighted well by Sonique who is a trans drag queen who basically made the point of saying that a lot of trans people complain if they are only considered for trans roles so if they want to play cisgendered roles then they can't really oppose the opposite either.

Same with sexuality really, there was a film released a year or two ago called Love, Simon and that got hit with a lot of controversy from the LGBT community because the lead wasn't a gay actor and I find that ridiculous. Actors shouldn't be limited to only playing their sexuality and actors shouldn't be typecast for it either.

[Oliver_W]

I agree with pretty much all of this.

I don't know if anyone whinged about the casting of Ariel in the upcoming Mermaid movie, but that doesn't matter as her race isn't tied into the story; changing the race of Mulan or Poke wouldn't work, as they are Chinese and Native American respectively.

I had to google Ghost in the Shell just now to see the story, and it doesn't look like it's tied into race so, like Mermaid, it could be any.

There are so few trans people full stop, let alone actors, so it's understandable they wouldn't prioritize this when casting. Especially if they want a Big Name. Double especially if they need to look a certain way - in Ugly Betty, Alexis Meade needed to appear to be a beautiful woman.

As for sexualities ... if all actors could only play their own sexuality, Broadway would close down!

[LukeB]

I agree with you Dezzy

Their job is to act and they are doing that, as you said they shouldn't be a limit on what they can do.It would be nice if a transgender did have the roles but it's all about the story and how they tell it, Scarlett might have been better in her audition/screen test.

[Liam-]

The best actor should get the jobs, shoehorning minorities into roles doesn’t work when it comes to Hollywood, it’s all about the quality of the product, obviously if a minority happens to be the best for the job, crack on, but actors are actors for a reason, they should be able to play anyone, people need to get a grip.

[LukeB]

I agree with pretty much all of this.

I don't know if anyone whinged about the casting of Ariel in the upcoming Mermaid movie, but that doesn't matter as her race isn't tied into the story; changing the race of Mulan or Poke wouldn't work, as they are Chinese and Native American respectively.

I had to google Ghost in the Shell just now to see the story, and it doesn't look like it's tied into race so, like Mermaid, it could be any.

There are so few trans people full stop, let alone actors, so it's understandable they wouldn't prioritize this when casting. Especially if they want a Big Name. Double especially if they need to look a certain way - in Ugly Betty, Alexis Meade needed to appear to be a beautiful woman.

As for sexualities ... if all actors could only play their own sexuality, Broadway would close down!

Some have complained about Ariel being black but they can cast any female for that as long they stick to the red hair:laugh: but yeah films like Mulan,Aladdin and even Black Panther cast had to be based on the race because of the culture.

[Marsh.]

As long as the actors aren't playing races they're not (especially involving such offensive things blackface or yellowface) I don't see the issue in switching ethnicity to suit whichever actor is playing the role. However, whitewashing isn't a good look.

When it comes to sexuality, accent, trans-status I don't see the problem in anyone playing the role as long as they can do it.

[Marsh.]

Double especially if they need to look a certain way - in Ugly Betty, Alexis Meade needed to appear to be a beautiful woman.!

idgi

[Oliver_W]

idgi

Can you name a trans actress who's as hot as Rebecca Romijn?

[arista]

https://i.mdel.net/i/db/2017/2/650524/650524-500w.jpg

[Marsh.]

Can you name a trans actress who's as hot as Rebecca Romijn?

I couldn't name a trans actress full stop. Doesn't mean there aren't hot ones.

[user104658]

I went right off ScarJo when someone asked her in an interview if she had seen Infinity War and she said (in a non-joking way - she also knew nothing about the film or any of the characters other than her own) something like "lol no I have a life".

I mean I know plenty of people aren't into these sorts of films but honestly having a straight up dig at the millions of people that are writing your pay cheques? :umm2:

There's a few MCU actors who are like this about the films and it's crappy :hmph:. Much rather watch interviews with people like Tom Holland who are actually interested in / excited about the material.

Tom Holland should get her part in whatever this is :hee:.

[LukeB]

I went right off ScarJo when someone asked her in an interview if she had seen Infinity War and she said (in a non-joking way - she also knew nothing about the film or any of the characters other than her own) something like "lol no I have a life".

I mean I know plenty of people aren't into these sorts of films but honestly having a straight up dig at the millions of people that are writing your pay cheques? :umm2:

There's a few MCU actors who are like this about the films and it's crappy :hmph:. Much rather watch interviews with people like Tom Holland who are actually interested in / excited about the material.

Tom Holland should get her part in whatever this is :hee:.

You leave our ScarJo alone

Are you sure she wasn't joking?

[user104658]

You leave our ScarJo alone



Are you sure she wasn't joking?Yes :suspect:and there are multiple times when interviewers / hosts have mentioned basic in-universe stuff and she has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

[Marsh.]

Suddenly, the lack of main role for Black Widow and the delay for her own solo film seems deserved. :hmph:

[Oliver_W]

It's a shame really, Black Widow is great tbh

[Alf]

Hollywood is currently in its worst state in history. The art of film making has, like many other things, been infested with political correctness, and political correctness ruins everything.

[Mokka]

I couldn't name a trans actress full stop. Doesn't mean there aren't hot ones.

https://dibamoviz4.pw/images/persons/nm1209545.jpg

Laverne Cox is ashamed of you Marsh

[LukeB]

Suddenly, the lack of main role for Black Widow and the delay for her own solo film seems deserved. :hmph:

:oh:

[Marsh.]

Hollywood is currently in its worst state in history. The art of film making has, like many other things, been infested with political correctness, and political correctness ruins everything.

I'm sure whether a trans or cis actor plays a trans character has affected your film viewing pleasure profoundly. :smug:

[Marsh.]

https://dibamoviz4.pw/images/persons/nm1209545.jpg

Laverne Cox is ashamed of you Marsh

:worry:

[Alf]

I'm sure whether a trans or cis actor plays a trans character has affected your film viewing pleasure profoundly. :smug:Depends if they're good or not. They shouldn't be cast if they're not the best person for the job. But these days it's not about who's best for the job, it's about, do they tick diversity boxes?

[Marsh.]

Depends if they're good or not. They shouldn't be cast if they're not the best person for the job. But these days it's not about who's best for the job, it's about, do they tick diversity boxes?

How so?

How do you differentiate between seeing a minority on screen and concluding "a diversity box" and seeing a minority and concluding "actor won the role on merit".

And don't say "the bad ones" because there's plenty of poor actors across the board.

[Oliver_W]

Didn't the BBC set diversity quotas a few years back?

[Marsh.]

Didn't the BBC set diversity quotas a few years back?

Increasing the representation in front of and behind the camera is positive?

[Oliver_W]

Increasing the representation in front of and behind the camera is positive?

It's not positive or negative, just something that is.

[Alf]

How so?

How do you differentiate between seeing a minority on screen and concluding "a diversity box" and seeing a minority and concluding "actor won the role on merit".

And don't say "the bad ones" because there's plenty of poor actors across the board.Which film critic is gonna be negative towards somebody considered a minority without risking being labeled a bigot?

[Marsh.]

Which film critic is gonna be negative towards somebody considered a minority without risking being labeled a bigot?

Every critic going?

You think a black actor has never been criticised?

Unless you mean a critic is not going to come out with "This minority only got cast because they are a minority" then you're right, that's bigoted.

[Tom4784]

Which film critic is gonna be negative towards somebody considered a minority without risking being labeled a bigot?

Are you suggesting that film critics don't critique minority actors and films in the same way as other actors and films? 'Cus if so then that's a load of ****. Pretty much every Tyler Perry Film gets slaughtered by the critics, Will Smith hasn't had a well received film in years and most recently, the Aladdin remake got slated despite featuring an almost entirely ethnic minority cast. Ghostbusters got slated, Ocean's 8 didn't get a warm reception etc. Need me to keep going?

Normal people don't worry about being seen as bigoted because we know we aren't, it's only a worry for the self aware bigot.

I think your whole 'PC is ruining Hollywood!' argument is based on nothing.

[Alf]

Every critic going?

You think a black actor has never been criticised?

Unless you mean a critic is not going to come out with "This minority only got cast because they are a minority" then you're right, that's bigoted.Any Black actor that has been criticised, you can bet the person was labeled a racist for doing so.

[Alf]

Except that didn't happen.Except every year a Black person doesn't win an Oscar.

[Marsh.]

Except every year a Black person doesn't win an Oscar.

That's never happened.

People have (rightly) commented on the entire spectrum of nominations each year being so white. Which is a symptom of the screen itself lacking diversity.

But I suppose it's just a coincidence that the very best of the best in the film industry are white. :think:

[Marsh.]

It's not positive or negative, just something that is.

Nope, definitely positive. Diversity increases the amount of different perspectives/stories making it to screen. Nobody wants to have the same meal three times a day, every day.

[Mystic Mock]

The story is a few days old but it's one that promotes an interesting conversation. For the sake of clarity, ScarJo has since clarified her comments to essentially say that acting should be free of political correctness and that it's an actor's job to embody someone other than themselves.

When it comes to race, I think racebending is fine as long as the character's race isn't an important part of the story but I don't think a white person should ever play a black character or a black character play an asian person ETC. The creator of Ghost in the Shell actually supported her casting but I remember feeling uncomfortable when she went around calling herself 'Motoko Kusanagi'. I think there's wriggle room when it comes to stories like Ghost in the Shell but I just think that film handled it poorly. I think Altered Carbon did a better job of telling that kind of story better.

I do disagree with controversies surrounding cisgendered actors portraying trans characters though. I think it's great if you can cast a trans person in the role but I think the story is often more important than the actor portraying it. I also think there's a certain level of hypocrisy in the reaction to Scarlett being cast in that film that was highlighted well by Sonique who is a trans drag queen who basically made the point of saying that a lot of trans people complain if they are only considered for trans roles so if they want to play cisgendered roles then they can't really oppose the opposite either.

Same with sexuality really, there was a film released a year or two ago called Love, Simon and that got hit with a lot of controversy from the LGBT community because the lead wasn't a gay actor and I find that ridiculous. Actors shouldn't be limited to only playing their sexuality and actors shouldn't be typecast for it either.

All of this tbh.

[armand.kay]

Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.

[Marsh.]

Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.

Well, I think that's the point, it entirely depends on the project/story. It shouldn't be a blanket rule that cis play cis, trans play trans, gay play gay etc. It should be down to the individual project and what is the best way to tell the story.

[Twosugars]

Hollywood is currently in its worst state in history. The art of film making has, like many other things, been infested with political correctness, and political correctness ruins everything.

Nothing to do with political correctness. It's about accurate representation of society, opportunities for underrepresented sections of society.
It's kind of sad you don't get it bc it's long overdue and it's here to stay.
You'll still get you straight white male flicks don't worry. But those will never again be the whole of the cinema.

[Oliver_W]

Nope, definitely positive. Diversity increases the amount of different perspectives/stories making it to screen. Nobody wants to have the same meal three times a day, every day.

If a producer comes up with a good story and it gets made, then sure. But this shouldn't happen because higher-ups mandated their position into existence. If it happens through a meritocracy, then great!

[Marsh.]

If a producer comes up with a good story and it gets made, then sure. But this shouldn't happen because higher-ups mandated their position into existence. If it happens through a meritocracy, then great!

Think the point went over your head a little.

Their stories have to be forced through, at least initially, or they'll never get made at all. Then once talented minorities have been given those opportunities the representation and growth happens naturally. The same as it has done for the majority.

If things just stayed as they were, then the writers would still be the same people, the producers still the same people, all writing from the same vantage points and experiences. Change does not occur naturally, it needs a little nudge.

The only way it would be in anyway a "negative" would be if it was taking opportunities away from a group of people, which judging what we see on screens and in the cinema has not happened, the majority still have... the majority.

The old "If they come up with a story then... great" didn't work out so well when... next to nothing was making it through the commission process.

[Tom4784]

Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.

Depends on the project, as it's been said it's not a blanket rule. Sometimes the best choice will be a trans actor, other times it won't. What's more important is the ability to embody the story and struggle of their characters and great actors can do that regardless of their gender status.

[Oliver_W]

If things just stayed as they were, then the writers would still be the same people, the producers still the same people, all writing from the same vantage points and experiences. Change does not occur naturally, it needs a little nudge.
It's not the 1960s anymore, meritocracies work, everyone is on even footing - as it should be :)

[Twosugars]

It's not the 1960s anymore, meritocracies work, everyone is on even footing - as it should be :)

:laugh:
That's at best naive

[Marsh.]

It's not the 1960s anymore, meritocracies work, everyone is on even footing - as it should be :)

Except they're not - hence the imbalance.

If everyone was on equal footing, there would be no lack of representation.

"Hired on merit" pertaining to the same "majority" is not even close to equal.

[Alf]

Nothing to do with political correctness. It's about accurate representation of society, opportunities for underrepresented sections of society.
It's kind of sad you don't get it bc it's long overdue and it's here to stay.
You'll still get you straight white male flicks don't worry. But those will never again be the whole of the cinema.Straight White Male flicks have always been in the minority in cinema, just that nobody was crying about it.

Nollywood, Bollywood, Hong Kong, Japan Ect, the representation of White men in their movies would give you a heart attack.

[Marsh.]

Straight White Male flicks have always been in the minority in cinema

:joker::joker::joker:

[Northern Monkey]

All roles should be open to any actor or actress as long as they’re right for the part.

[Ammi]

...so is it a transitioning character in Ghost Shell... and she pulled out of playing the part..?..


..I don’t know, I guess transgender is still quite controversial to some of society..so it would seem that the most important thing would be to have an actor who could break through that in terms of their relatability/popularity...the part would need someone who would greatly inspire thoughts and have the audience feel totally invested in the character being portrayed...we had that with Danish Girl...

[Ammi]

The story is a few days old but it's one that promotes an interesting conversation. For the sake of clarity, ScarJo has since clarified her comments to essentially say that acting should be free of political correctness and that it's an actor's job to embody someone other than themselves.

When it comes to race, I think racebending is fine as long as the character's race isn't an important part of the story but I don't think a white person should ever play a black character or a black character play an asian person ETC. The creator of Ghost in the Shell actually supported her casting but I remember feeling uncomfortable when she went around calling herself 'Motoko Kusanagi'. I think there's wriggle room when it comes to stories like Ghost in the Shell but I just think that film handled it poorly. I think Altered Carbon did a better job of telling that kind of story better.

I do disagree with controversies surrounding cisgendered actors portraying trans characters though. I think it's great if you can cast a trans person in the role but I think the story is often more important than the actor portraying it. I also think there's a certain level of hypocrisy in the reaction to Scarlett being cast in that film that was highlighted well by Sonique who is a trans drag queen who basically made the point of saying that a lot of trans people complain if they are only considered for trans roles so if they want to play cisgendered roles then they can't really oppose the opposite either.

Same with sexuality really, there was a film released a year or two ago called Love, Simon and that got hit with a lot of controversy from the LGBT community because the lead wasn't a gay actor and I find that ridiculous. Actors shouldn't be limited to only playing their sexuality and actors shouldn't be typecast for it either.

...oh sorry, I think I got completely wrong what the thread is...:laugh:..I need to shake myself awake this morning...hmmmm, with Love Simon for instance...?....I can see how sexuality wouldn’t be important for the part, it was left open for any sexuality to play...I haven’t seen the movie but that’s what I’m thinking...?...and yeah in an ideal movie world, as it were...that would be the way...but is it also about the limitation that some actors feel in that they’re only being cast in certain roles, which might feel to them as a bit ‘stereotypical’....because the diversity just isn’t being written or if it is then it’s just not being open to the same consideration for all actors....?...which is what some in The movie industry have been saying for many years...

[bots]

The acting profession has been an unfair playground for generations, this is but one small facet of a much larger issue. Logic would suggest that the best person qualified for the role would get it, but that rarely (if ever) happens. It's always about who is the biggest box office draw or who is "best friends" with the director etc. I find it difficult to take the acting profession seriously until those issues are sorted out.

[Ammi]

...I think it’s progressing though in that there are more and more ‘unknowns’ cast in big roles and those movies are showing huge successes ...which encourages that progression to continue...but I guess, is it more that Scarlett for instance and so, so many other actresses could be cast for so many varied roles, including transgender...but would a transgender person have the same scope or would they be pigeon-holed more..?...

[Oliver_W]

Except they're not - hence the imbalance.

If everyone was on equal footing, there would be no lack of representation.

"Hired on merit" pertaining to the same "majority" is not even close to equal.
But there isn't a lack of representation anymore, what have you been watching?

[armand.kay]

Depends on the project, as it's been said it's not a blanket rule. Sometimes the best choice will be a trans actor, other times it won't. What's more important is the ability to embody the story and struggle of their characters and great actors can do that regardless of their gender status.

I agree to some extent except that imo the only time I can see the need for a cis actor is if its a transition story because I honestly can't see any justification for not hiring a trans actor to play a trans person whos already gone through their transition. There's already not many opportunities in Hollywood for trans people so hiring a cisgender person to convey their stories is just a slap in the face to the trans community.

[armand.kay]

Well, I think that's the point, it entirely depends on the project/story. It shouldn't be a blanket rule that cis play cis, trans play trans, gay play gay etc. It should be down to the individual project and what is the best way to tell the story.

it would be cute if it worked the other way round but how many studios are rushing to give trans people roles meant for cisgender people? I don't really care about heterosexuals playing gay because while it's not equal it still happens the other way round frequently enough that it doesn't bother me at all.

[Livia]

Oh leave her alone. My favourite Shakespeare play is Henry V - a white man. The best version I ever saw was when Henry was played by black actor Adrian Lester. I don't recall any backlash about a white man being played by a black man and it took absolutely nothing away from the play.

[armand.kay]

Oh leave her alone. My favourite Shakespeare play is Henry V - a white man. The best version I ever saw was when Henry was played by black actor Adrian Lester. I don't recall any backlash about a white man being played by a black man and it took absolutely nothing away from the play.

Theatre is very different from film and tv.

[Livia]

Theatre is very different from film and tv.

Why is it. In what way is it.

What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?

[Tom4784]

I agree to some extent except that imo the only time I can see the need for a cis actor is if its a transition story because I honestly can't see any justification for not hiring a trans actor to play a trans person whos already gone through their transition. There's already not many opportunities in Hollywood for trans people so hiring a cisgender person to convey their stories is just a slap in the face to the trans community.

I agree with you but then again I'd also like to see trans actors get roles that aren't trans characters as well. It's a complaint I've seen often from the community that trans actors are typically only considered to play trans roles so I think it's a matter of give and take. It would be preferable to hire a trans actor for a trans role but you don't want to go too far in one direction and enforce a view point that trans actors can ONLY play trans roles.

[Tom4784]

Theatre has always been seen as colour blind and it generally has a more open minded and more specific audience while cinema appeals to almost everyone. Not everyone goes to see plays but almost everyone watches films.

[user104658]

Oh leave her alone. My favourite Shakespeare play is Henry V - a white man. The best version I ever saw was when Henry was played by black actor Adrian Lester. I don't recall any backlash about a white man being played by a black man and it took absolutely nothing away from the play.



Theatre has always been seen as colour blind and it generally has a more open minded and more specific audience while cinema appeals to almost everyone. Not everyone goes to see plays but almost everyone watches films.

I dunno about there not being a backlash when it's the reverse, or people being more open to it in theatre... Hermionegate was only a couple of years ago.

[James]

I don't get why Scarlett got criticism for being cast in Ghost in the Shell, but then there was nothing when Rosa Salazar - who is not Asian - was cast in Alita.

[Oliver_W]

What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?

I think in some cases it should be "allowed" to ignore quotas.

[user104658]

Why is it. In what way is it.



What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

[Oliver_W]

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

Yeah, Royal courts back then were probably about as diverse as ... Royal courts now, hahaha. Even less so!

But the streets? My mum likes to karp on about "Black Nancys". Nancy could have been black, she was a street thief, not rich or anything. Now on the other hand, I'm of the firm belief Oliver should look like me when I was young, if I'd have lived in a workhouse.

[Tom4784]

I dunno about there not being a backlash when it's the reverse, or people being more open to it in theatre... Hermionegate was only a couple of years ago.

It's Harry Potter though so that play gathered a lot of attention from outside of the theatre world. A lot of that anger was from people who wouldn't typically be theatregoers.

[Tom4784]

I don't get why Scarlett got criticism for being cast in Ghost in the Shell, but then there was nothing when Rosa Salazar - who is not Asian - was cast in Alita.

I think the difference is that Motoko Kusanagi, even after her transformation into a cyborg was always presented as being Japanese while Alita as a character isn't presented as being of any particular race.

[Livia]

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

I know there were black people in London in Victorian times. And Chinese and Asian and all sorts of other nationalities. I come from the area of London's Royal Docks and the area was multicultural - to an extent - since the docks opened in the mid 1800s. My point is that sometimes black people are portrayed in roles that would not have been open to them. I think it gives a wrong very impression, like suddenly the reality of their lives has to be changed for the sake of political correctness. People's struggles should be remembered. The Holocaust is remembered so that it never happens again. Everybody's struggle should be remembered not sanitised. .

[Marsh.]

But there isn't a lack of representation anymore, what have you been watching?

What have YOU been watching?

I'm so glad the industry can breathe a sigh of relief because Oliver said there isn't an issue.

[user104658]

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.In terms of Oliver pretty much any if the characters EXCEPT Oliver himself could be non-white, as he turns out to be from a wealthy London family, and that's where it would start to not make sense given that wealth and privilege are sort of themes of the entire story.

[user104658]

What have YOU been watching?

I'm so glad the industry can breathe a sigh of relief because Oliver said there isn't an issue.I'd say there is increasingly better representation currently but it's very, VERY recently... Definitely not complete enough, and far too recent to be taken for granted. If the Trump era has taught us anything, it's that things that have taken decades to change can be changed back in a matter of months.

[Marsh.]

I'd say there is increasingly better representation currently but it's very, VERY recently... Definitely not complete enough, and far too recent to be taken for granted. If the Trump era has taught us anything, it's that things that have taken decades to change can be changed back in a matter of months.

Couldn't agree more.

[Tom4784]

Shows like Victoria aren't exactly true to life representations so I don't think having a black person be a significant player in the show is a problem. Shows like Victoria are light entertainment after all.

Obviously if you want to put a focus on the racial aspects then it's important to cast appropriately but I don't really have a problem with period dramas as a whole racebending things.

[Oliver_W]

In terms of Oliver pretty much any if the characters EXCEPT Oliver himself could be non-white, as he turns out to be from a wealthy London family, and that's where it would start to not make sense given that wealth and privilege are sort of themes of the entire story.

Plus his rich uncle :p possibly also Bumble and Courney, and the Sowerberrys :p

[James]

I went right off ScarJo when someone asked her in an interview if she had seen Infinity War and she said (in a non-joking way - she also knew nothing about the film or any of the characters other than her own) something like "lol no I have a life".

I mean I know plenty of people aren't into these sorts of films but honestly having a straight up dig at the millions of people that are writing your pay cheques? :umm2:

There's a few MCU actors who are like this about the films and it's crappy :hmph:. Much rather watch interviews with people like Tom Holland who are actually interested in / excited about the material.

Tom Holland should get her part in whatever this is :hee:.

I'd imagine a lot of the Marvel and comic-book actors think like that privately. :hehe:

Straight White Male flicks have always been in the minority in cinema, just that nobody was crying about it.

Nollywood, Bollywood, Hong Kong, Japan Ect, the representation of White men in their movies would give you a heart attack.

Hollywood used to be more favourable to films aimed at women than it is now. There was a time when dramas, including what they called 'women's pictures', were studios' biggest films.

Now the biggest films are comic-book / fantasy / big franchises, and they're trying to get women involved more (ie. kick-ass roles) for equality, and there is a backlash in some corners of the Internet - but I don't know how representative that is.