A Canadian man is attempting to legally coerce women to wax his scrotum.

[Niamh.]

Just an example of how self IDing can be abused, there's something seriously wrong in Canada and maybe the world if this case is won. Shocking, can't believe this story wasn't posted here :

Canada’s Ball-Waxing Horror Show: Peak Transgender Activism

http://i64.tinypic.com/vo26o9.jpg


A Canadian man is attempting to legally coerce women to wax his scrotum.
Imagine this. It’s 1990. A feminist novelist is pitching her latest book to a publisher. Set in a dystopian future in which a tyrannical ideology has gripped Western politics, it features female estheticians who have been dragged before a national kangaroo court for refusing to wax a man’s genitals. The publisher worries that the story, about an outrageous affront on women’s rights, isn’t plausible. She suggests something more realistic — how about fascistic men who force women into reproductive slavery instead?

Well, it’s 2019. The Handmaid’s Tale is still fiction. While Wax My Balls, B**** is a real-life horror show.

This week, British Columbia’s Human Rights Tribunal (CHRC) — a self-described “quasi-judicial body created by the B.C. Human Rights Code” — held hearings on whether or not female beauticians should be forced to handle male genitalia. The complainant, known until Wednesday under the alias “J. Y.” owing to a court gag order, is Jonathan/Jessica Yaniv, a self-identified transgender woman.

Yaniv has filed 16 different complaints against estheticians in the past year. Yaniv argues that, as a transgender woman, being denied services on account of her gender identity was discriminatory. As “Jessica,” Yaniv explained on Twitter:

This is not about waxing. This about businesses and individuals using their religion and culture to refuse service to protected groups because -they- don’t agree with it or the person and use that to illegally discriminate contrary to the BC Human Rights Code and the CHRC.

But who said this was about waxing? This about sex, surely. Yaniv is male — a male who has not made the surgical commitment necessary to pass as a female. On top of that, in the past year, Yaniv has presented unambiguously as a male on a number of sites including Google, LinkedIn, Pinterest, and YouTube. And on top of that, Yaniv is a male who is sexually attracted to females.

For the women who declined to wax Yaniv’s private parts, however, the matter was simpler still. Yaniv has male genitalia. Some preferred not to touch these for religious reasons. Others, such as business owner Marcia Da Silva, didn’t feel comfortable or qualified. In the hearing, Da Silva’s lawyer, Jay Cameron, further explained that forcing his client to touch Yaniv’s scrotum would effectively be coercing “intimate services.”

It gets worse. The Canadian journalist Meghan Murphy, who was banned from Twitter for identifying Yaniv as a man, writes at Spectator USA:

In some cases, Yaniv, who is male and maintains male genitalia, used fake Facebook profiles, displaying photos of women (in at least one case, he used the profile of a pregnant woman) to request the service via Facebook Marketplace. When the aestheticians realized he was male, they told him they only performed the service for women (indeed, waxing male genitals is an entirely different procedure, which requires particular training and wax). Yaniv went so far as to tell Sandeep Banipal, proprietor of Blue Heaven Beauty Lounge, that he was on his period, and asked if she could work around the string.

The damages to these women have been considerable, including stress and depression; at least one woman was forced to close her business. Another, a single mother who worked out of her home, paid Yaniv $2,500 to withdraw the complaint so that she could escape the expense of further litigation. Some of the women Yaniv targeted were immigrants. And as if there weren’t enough reasons to be suspicious of Yaniv, some of his comments on social media have seemed strikingly xenophobic. On Facebook, as “Jonathan,” Yaniv posted:

We have a lot of immigrants here who gawk, judge and aren’t the cleanest of people, they’re also verbally and physically abusive, that’s one reason I joined a girl’s gym, cause I DON’T want issues with these people . . . They lie about sh[**], they’ll do anything to support their own kind and make things miserable for everyone else.

It gets worse still. Yaniv is also “seeking permission” from a Canadian local council “to hold three ‘topless’ swims for people ages 12 and up, and parents would be barred from attending,”the Daily Caller reports. This swim would be for children who identify as LGBTQ2S+ and would include topless girls.

12
So there we have it. An obviously predatory male is attempting to use the force of law to coerce females to touch his private parts and — unbelievably — a Canadian human-rights tribunal is entertaining this demand. Yaniv has so perfectly exposed the absurdity of gender policies that it would scarcely be surprising if he turned out to be a troll.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/07/canadas-ball-waxing-horror-show-peak-transgen-activism/


Also, an interview with Yaniv on Irish Radio yesterday (which was where I found out about the case, how is this not all over the news? It's crazy???

lTr03b_L30s

[Crimson Dynamo]

Canada’s Ball-Waxing Horror Show

sounds like a new thing on Netflix that members are clamouring for to get a sub forum

:skull:

[Niamh.]

Canada’s Ball-Waxing Horror Show

sounds like a new thing on Netflix that members are clamouring for to get a sub forum

:skull:

:laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

i did see this online yesterday but i actually did not fully understand what was going on as it was so absurd

[Oliver_W]

He's also trying to arrange a topless swimming session for girls over 12, and parents are prohibited from attending ... this guy is seriously sketchy

Edit: oops that mentioned in the o/p, s' what I get for skimming! Id

[bots]

I've never had a scrotum wax, i can't imagine any circumstances where it would be considered a pleasurable experience. So, i'm not sure what the motivation is :shrug:

[Niamh.]

I've never had a scrotum wax, i can't imagine any circumstances where it would be considered a pleasurable experience. So, i'm not sure what the motivation is :shrug:

Yaniv is suing alot of people, you have to wonder if any of the beauticians he did contact actually said yes and he went through with it or if he was only interested in the ones that said no so he could sue them

[Oliver_W]

Yaniv is suing alot of people, you have to wonder if any of the beauticians he did contact actually said yes and he went through with it or if he was only interested in the ones that said no so he could sue them

I wonder that about gay people who take legal action for being refused wedding cakes tbh.

[Niamh.]

And to those of you who were convinced that it was hysterical for women to think the self IDing would lead to perverts trying to exploit it, this guy is a prime example, here's some tweets of his about using female changing rooms

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAHwc5rXoAUeRqD.jpg:large

[Ammi]

...topless swims from age 12yrs with adult/parental supervision banned..?...jeeez, who is this person...

[Niamh.]

I wonder that about gay people who take legal action for being refused wedding cakes tbh.

Well there's a big difference between baking a cake and saying it's illegal to say no to touching some guys balls. Not really the same discussion

[Niamh.]

...topless swims from age 12yrs with adult/parental supervision banned..?...jeeez, who is this person...

Clearly not an actual Transgender woman but some pervert who saw an opportunity to use the new laws in Canada to harass women/girls and maybe make some cash too

[Oliver_W]

Well there's a big difference between baking a cake and saying it's illegal to say no to touching some guys balls. Not really the same discussion

I wasn't comparing the services, I'm just wondering if the gays deliberately sought out a bakery who'd refuse them, so they could sue, like this guy is doing.


While either service providers should be ablr to refuse custom, I'd definitely give preference to the poor women potentially being forced to touch a man's privates.

[Ammi]

Clearly not an actual Transgender woman but some pervert who saw an opportunity to use the new laws in Canada to harass women/girls and maybe make some cash too

...I’m reading some stuff on him atm that say he’s a notorious pervert...so if he’s so known I wonder why he’s allowed to continue with his ‘trolling’...

[Niamh.]

...I’m reading some stuff on him atm that say he’s a notorious pervert...so if he’s so known I wonder why he’s allowed to continue with his ‘trolling’...

Indeed, will be very very interesting to see what the outcome of it all is. Unfortunately for those beauticians the damage has already been done with one of them paying him off to get of her back and another having gone out of business.

[Northern Monkey]

Can’t he just get Anton’s mum to do it?

[Ammi]

Indeed, will be very very interesting to see what the outcome of it all is. Unfortunately for those beauticians the damage has already been done with one of them paying him off to get of her back and another having gone out of business.

..it looks as though he’s able to do a lot of damage to people on social media../..Twitter...I just don’t understand why he isn’t stopped by the police...the stuff about him is really sketchy...

[Crimson Dynamo]

these tweets are grim

[Ammi]

...it gets worse, Niamh...


https://jonathanyaniv.org/

[DouglasS]

This whole story grosses me out.
He must be mentally sick

I don’t think people should ever be allowed to legally self identify their gender - it’s way too dangerous

[Niamh.]

...it gets worse, Niamh...


https://jonathanyaniv.org/

Jesus.

Did you listen to the interview I posted in the OP Ammi, the DJ asks him Shouldn't women be allowed to say no and he answers No, that's it in a nut shell, we're going so far backwards in time it's crazy...........under his eye

[Ammi]

Jesus.

Did you listen to the interview I posted in the OP Ammi, the DJ asks him Shouldn't women be allowed to say no and he answers No, that's it in a nut shell, we're going so far backwards in time it's crazy...........under his eye

...no I didn’t see there was an interview posted...I’m not long in so I’ll take some more time to listen and look up more about him later ...he sounds very disturbing and is in ‘plain sight’ to the authorities so I don’t understand how he’s allowed to continue ...

[Marsh.]

Mokka wouldn't need coercion.

[Mokka]

Mokka wouldn't need coercion.

:joker::joker::joker:

[Amy Jade]

This is beyond disturbing!

[Beso]

Any tibb women willing to come and cradle mine in an ice cold basin right now..... £250

[Amy Jade]

Any tibb women willing to come and cradle mine in an ice cold basin right now..... £250

https://uploadir.com/u/xg9bd0dj

'Hello? Police please!'

[Ammi]

...I honestly don’t know what’s true with this person...some really disturbing stuff...

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/exclusive-15-year-old-alleged-victim-of-jessica-yaniv-speaks-out/

[smudgie]

I would have a go.
But shave it with a Sweeny Todd razor and make sure I wasn’t too careful.
Disgusting pervert:fist:

[Kazanne]

Any tibb women willing to come and cradle mine in an ice cold basin right now..... £250

:laugh::laugh: are you hot Parmy :hehe:

[Cherie]

Remember when we were told this would never happen :skull:

[Toy Soldier]

Using an obvious example of extreme behaviour - so extreme that it borders on parody - to justify general anti-trans views and shout "TOLD U SO". :skull:

[Livia]

Using an obvious example of extreme behaviour - so extreme that it borders on parody - to justify general anti-trans views and shout "TOLD U SO". :skull:


That's unfair. It isn't anti trans, it's pro women.

[Livia]

Remember when we were told this would never happen :skull:

I remember. I remember being told I was anti-trans. I remember women being laughed at and told self-IDing was "no threat" to women.

[Toy Soldier]

I remember. I remember being told I was anti-trans. I remember women being laughed at and told self-IDing was "no threat" to women.

Luckily you now have the justification you need to curb stomp those dirty buggers into the floor, because there's a pedophile in Canada abusing the law. Whew!

[Livia]

Luckily you now have the justification you need to curb stomp those dirty buggers into the floor, because there's a pedophile in Canada abusing the law. Whew!

Look at your hysterical language.

You think I'm anti trans and that you yourself are virtuous.

I am not against trans people, I am against people self-IDing. And frankly it's insulting that I have to explain this to you. Again.

[Niamh.]

Using an obvious example of extreme behaviour - so extreme that it borders on parody - to justify general anti-trans views and shout "TOLD U SO". :skull:

It's an example of how self IDing can be abused TS which is all I and a few others have been saying. It isn't the first example either by the way, there are numerous examples in the sporting field also, there are quite a lot of examples in a very short space of time in fact. The point is it's putting trans rights above womens rights, that is very very unfair. It's putting gender above sex which is illogical, unfair and quite frankly dangerous

[Toy Soldier]

I can accept that purely in the context of this thread, I may have gone in a little hard based on past experiences of these threads. Past threads on these topics have gone in a distinctly angry general anti-trans direction. I know there'll be people who will argue that they haven't, but for me that's not an opinion that's going to change.

I also can't agree that a thread about an obviously extreme example of a disturbed individual works well to support a general point. Does it mean things need to be looked at? Maybe, as a tiny fragment of a much broader discussion, but this is not the "Gotcha!!" moment that people want it to be. That would be like seeing a story about a dog attacking a child and announcing that "clearly" the regulations around dog ownership must be changed "and if you don't agree, you aren't considering the children".

[bots]

I can accept that purely in the context of this thread, I may have gone in a little hard based on past experiences of these threads. Past threads on these topics have gone in a distinctly angry general anti-trans direction. I know there'll be people who will argue that they haven't, but for me that's not an opinion that's going to change.

I also can't agree that a thread about an obviously extreme example of a disturbed individual works well to support a general point. Does it mean things need to be looked at? Maybe, as a tiny fragment of a much broader discussion, but this is not the "Gotcha!!" moment that people want it to be. That would be like seeing a story about a dog attacking a child and announcing that "clearly" the regulations around dog ownership must be changed "and if you don't agree, you aren't considering the children".

it may be an extreme example, but it shows the routes that are available and being used to exploit the system. To me this is exactly the same as Trump and his enabling of racists. When new routes are opened up to prey again on previously exploited groups, it has to be stamped out. No ifs or buts. To me, if these issues are not treated the same across the board, it shouts hypocrisy loud and clear.

[Niamh.]

I can accept that purely in the context of this thread, I may have gone in a little hard based on past experiences of these threads. Past threads on these topics have gone in a distinctly angry general anti-trans direction. I know there'll be people who will argue that they haven't, but for me that's not an opinion that's going to change.

I also can't agree that a thread about an obviously extreme example of a disturbed individual works well to support a general point. Does it mean things need to be looked at? Maybe, as a tiny fragment of a much broader discussion, but this is not the "Gotcha!!" moment that people want it to be. That would be like seeing a story about a dog attacking a child and announcing that "clearly" the regulations around dog ownership must be changed "and if you don't agree, you aren't considering the children".

The dog example is flimsy considering you can also flip that to work the other way round. At the end of the day you're arguing, pretty much the same as Yaniv did in the interview I posted in the OP. Trans rights trump womens. Do women have the right to say NO? Nope, not anymore apparently. Under his eye

[Niamh.]

Using an obvious example of extreme behaviour - so extreme that it borders on parody - to justify general anti-trans views and shout "TOLD U SO". :skull:

Also, just to pick up on this point here, I agree with you wholeheartedly and it would be hilarious if not for the fact that he was actually allowed, by law to extort money from some of these women and actually sue the ones who didn't hand over any money.

[Toy Soldier]

The dog example is flimsy considering you can also flip that to work the other way round. At the end of the day you're arguing, pretty much the same as Yaniv did in the interview I posted in the OP. Trans rights trump womens. Do women have the right to say NO? Nope, not anymore apparently. Under his eye

Why is it flimsy? It's pointing out that extreme examples are not a good benchmark for advocating sweeping change.

We could take asylum seekers as another example, then. Have people abused the asylum system to enter nations with malicious intent? Yes, there are obvious and clear examples of this happening. And people have been hurt and killed. There are many, MANY people who would use this - the fact that there are dangerous individuals willing to exploit the asylum system - as evidence that we must "rethink the system". And who would argue that anyone who disagrees " clearly doesn't care about the victims or potential victims of those people". Is a traitor or unpatriotic.

It is a direct comparison. It is more or less exactly the same thing.

Do I think that extreme examples of violent individuals gaining access to countries full of people they want to attack is a problem? Obviously, yes I do. Do I think it means we need to halt, reconsider, or have a sweeping overhaul of the asylum system? No absolutely not.

So why would I think that we need a sweeping overhaul of trans rights for the same reason? I'm not willing to be that sort of hypocrite.

[Niamh.]

Why is it flimsy? It's pointing out that extreme examples are not a good benchmark for advocating sweeping change.

But sweeping change is what's been asked for (and his been done on the quiet in some countries) for the benefit of a small minority at the risk of a majority but that's ok with you? (why wouldn't it be I guess, it's never going to actually effect your rights in any real way, is it?)


We could take asylum seekers as another example, then. Have people abused the asylum system to enter nations with malicious intent? Yes, there are obvious and clear examples of this happening. And people have been hurt and killed. There are many, MANY people who would use this - the fact that there are dangerous individuals willing to exploit the asylum system - as evidence that we must "rethink the system". And who would argue that anyone who disagrees "doesn't clearly doesn't care about the victims or potential victims of those people". Is a traitor or unpatriotic.


It is a direct comparison. It is more or less exactly the same thing.

Do I think that extreme examples of violent individuals gaining access to countries full of people they want to attack is a problem? Obviously, yes I do. Do I think it means we need to halt, reconsider, or have a sweeping overhaul of the asylum system? No absolutely not.

So why would I think that we need a sweeping overhaul of trans rights for the same reason? I'm not willing to be that sort of hypocrite.
Rethink the system? You're talking like Self IDing has always been a thing and not the other way round? The re thinking the system happened the opposite way round to what you're claiming TS, it's all sounding like double think now. Womens rights to sex segregated areas and sports and now apparently the right to refuse to touch a strangers penis are the rights that have been taken away without pretty much any consultation or discussion, it's been done so quietly and under the carpet that I'm willing to bet a vast majority of the general public don't even know Self IDing happened at all or even what it is.
.

[Toy Soldier]

Rethink the system? You're talking like Self IDing has always been a thing and not the other way round? The re thinking the system happened the opposite way round to what you're claiming TS, it's all sounding like double think now. Womens rights to sex segregated areas and sports and now apparently the right to refuse to touch a strangers penis are the rights that have been taken away without pretty much any consultation or discussion, it's been done so quietly and under the carpet that I'm willing to bet a vast majority on the general public don't even know Self IDing happened at all or even what it is.

Has seeking asylum "always been a thing"? Were the public made totally aware when the right to do so was written into law? Were the public polled and consulted before it happened (seems unlikely, as I doubt it would ever have happened if they were).

I'm not even arguing that there isn't a conversation to be had about self-ID but a proper one is never going to happen when the issue is muddied with extreme examples and over-exaggerated risk factors, and when pointing that out is scoffed at with a "you clearly don't care about womens rights" strawman.

IMO everyone (even in the beauty trade) should have the right to refuse to serve without it being classed as discrimination - ANYONE should be able to refuse to touch ANYONE ELSES genitals, for any reason they want. That's a personal autonomy issue not a trans rights issue. It'd be a problem if they "couldn't refuse" no matter who it was.

Sports have been discussed to death and more or less everyone agrees. But again it's a sports regulatory issue and not a legal one.

Toilets and changing areas are a more complicated discussion with the most sensible solution for everyone being - in my opinion - individual unisex units becoming the norm over communal areas although there are obvious logistical issues there.

But honestly I have to go back to the point that there can't be any reasonable or rational discussion about any of this when all that's being thrown around are emotionally heated and extreme examples like this one. It's just counter-productive and unhelpful. This individual - male, female or trans - is clearly deeply disturbed by all accounts and should obviously be being investigated as potentially dangerous. Is it a good example to bring up in an everyday discussion about self-ID? Nope. No more than one extremist bomber is a reasonable argument against immigration.

[Niamh.]

I think Asylum seeking has been a "thing" for a very long time TS yes.

You saying it's a sports regulatory issue is passing the buck somewhat, wouldn't trans people have a case to sue sports authorities for example if Self IDing was legal but the sports regulators said no? I think so.

What would be the point in legalising Self Id at all if individual organisations could just over rule the law?

[Cherie]

Also, just to pick up on this point here, I agree with you wholeheartedly and it would be hilarious if not for the fact that he was actually allowed, by law to extort money from some of these women and actually sue the ones who didn't hand over any money.

Yes that is the point, the case is ridiculous, yet it is being entertained because anyone who will not entertain is immediately labelled and their job would probably be at risk

[Ammi]

...it feels as though it’s all about control and power with this person ...and self iD-Ing as a female is just one of his disturbing behaviours...

[Alf]

This guy sounds like a pervert to me.

[Toy Soldier]

...it feels as though it’s all about control and power with this person ...and self iD-Ing as a female is just one of his disturbing behaviours...

Exactly Ammi it is one small factor in the story of, when looking into it, it seems a deeply disturbed and probably quite dangerous individual. Why the hyper-focus on self-ID as though that's the over-riding issue with this person? They are abusing and manipulating the system to selfish and worrying ends but the message people are keen to be taken from it, is that the problem is with the entire concept of self-ID, and not the individual. People abuse legal systems literally every day, and they require tweaking and adapting to try to ensure that there are fewer and fewer loopholes... it doesn't require a "baby out with the bathwater" rejection of the entire concept, because the risk is quite clearly in going too far the other way, i.e. the requirement of medical or psychiatric confirmation of identity. And anyone who thinks that is a good idea has far too much faith in those professions. Psychology is a complex, diverse and ever-changing discipline and there is literally no such thing as a beyond-question "expert". The idea that someone's personal identity would need to be "confirmed by a professional" to be taken seriously, is not a very comfortable route to go down.

[bots]

This guy sounds like a pervert to me.

yes, he clearly is, the worrying issue is that he is able to exploit the imbalance in existing systems to perpetuate his behaviour and be protected by those systems at the same time. The fact that a section of the population has that much power over others should be worrying to everyone

[Ammi]

Exactly Ammi it is one small factor in the story of, when looking into it, it seems a deeply disturbed and probably quite dangerous individual. Why the hyper-focus on self-ID as though that's the over-riding issue with this person? They are abusing and manipulating the system to selfish and worrying ends but the message people are keen to be taken from it, is that the problem is with the entire concept of self-ID, and not the individual. People abuse legal systems literally every day, and they require tweaking and adapting to try to ensure that there are fewer and fewer loopholes... it doesn't require a "baby out with the bathwater" rejection of the entire concept, because the risk is quite clearly in going too far the other way, i.e. the requirement of medical or psychiatric confirmation of identity. And anyone who thinks that is a good idea has far too much faith in those professions. Psychology is a complex, diverse and ever-changing discipline and there is literally no such thing as a beyond-question "expert". The idea that someone's personal identity would need that "confirmed by a professional" to be taken seriously, is not a very comfortable route to go down.

...I do think self ID has to be looked at closely to tighten up on loopholes and to protect females in that...any of those women could have refused to wax anyone for whatever reason...?...(...except if that reason is discriminatory, that’s when a refusal can’t happen obviously...)...and the law has upheld his side, that it was refused because of trans discrimination....

[Cherie]

yes, he clearly is, the worrying issue is that he is able to exploit the imbalance in existing systems to perpetuate his behaviour and be protected by those systems at the same time. The fact that a section of the population has that much power over others should be worrying to everyone

:clap1:

[Tom4784]

I decided to google the story to see if I could find an article that covers the story without any bias towards or against transgenderism and I couldn't really find any articles. It seems like mainstream media hasn't really bothered with this story at all.

If the story is as it's reported then the person in question is indeed a predator and should be treated as such. They use the law to run their con and worse still, it seems like they might actually be a peadophile. It's kinda remarkable that this story hasn't been picked up by the media yet, with more spotlight the victims in this story might finally get their justice.

I do disagree with the headline of this article in particular though, while I agree with self ID'ing yourself as transgender shouldn't be something that can be enforced on others by law, I dislike how this article seems to use this pathetic excuse of a human being to **** on transgender rights as a whole.

[Kizzy]

This guy sounds like a pervert to me.

This was my first thought..he didn't want treatment he wanted titillation.

[Ammi]

..i haven’t listened to it all yet but there’s a vid here of around 25 minutes of the human rights tribunal...Yaniv compared the business owner who had refused the wax to a neo nazi...


https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/jessica-yaniv-brazilian-wax-controversy?full=1

[Toy Soldier]

I decided to google the story to see if I could find an article that covers the story without any bias towards or against transgenderism and I couldn't really find any articles. It seems like mainstream media hasn't really bothered with this story at all.

If the story is as it's reported then the person in question is indeed a predator and should be treated as such. They use the law to run their con and worse still, it seems like they might actually be a peadophile. It's kinda remarkable that this story hasn't been picked up by the media yet, with more spotlight the victims in this story might finally get their justice.

I do disagree with the headline of this article in particular though, while I agree with self ID'ing yourself as transgender shouldn't be something that can be enforced on others by law, I dislike how this article seems to use this pathetic excuse of a human being to **** on transgender rights as a whole.

That's most of what I've been able to find, too; it's a case that's been picked up as a confirmation bias "poster child example" of something that was already being assumed to be a problem. A sort of "Aha! See! I *knew* it! Take that, nay-sayers!". Which frankly is exactly what happened on this thread too... on the first page, before anyone had said anything :idc:.

There also seems to be an issue of different reports about this individual not entirely matching up with each other, and a serious lack of overall information.

I think there's a real risk here of a case involving an extreme individual who would be doing **** like this regardless, being used as a realistic example of "what might happen" and honestly again I have to reiterate that the logic is absolutely no different to using an extremist attack to point at immigration and declare it problematic.

[Cherie]

Its so extreme that he would more likely be facing a charge now if he weren't calling himself a woman, rather than being entertained by people who are fearful of repercussions

[Ammi]

...Ricky Gervais is speaking out about this individual ....and being labelled a transphobe by some for doing so...


https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ricky-gervais-vs-jessica-yaniv-on-twitter.58756/

[Ammi]

...Ricky Gervais is speaking out about this individual ....


https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ricky-gervais-vs-jessica-yaniv-on-twitter.58756/

[Livia]

Its so extreme that he would more likely be facing a charge now if he weren't calling himself a woman, rather than being entertained by people who are fearful of repercussions

That's right. And I don't think ridiculing and belittling women's concerns, questioning her motives when she's already explained will do anything to make self-ID more acceptable. It feels like men controlling women.... still.

Has there been any trouble, any trouble at all I wonder, with women self-identifying is a man? Has a man been prosecuted because a self-identified female to male has taken anything a step too far. No.

[Toy Soldier]

...Ricky Gervais is speaking out about this individual ....


https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ricky-gervais-vs-jessica-yaniv-on-twitter.58756/

:umm2: not KiwiFarms surely Ammi. Come on now.

[Ammi]

:umm2: not KiwiFarms surely Ammi. Come on now.

...(...honestly I don’t know what kiwifarms is, I’m just trying to see what I can find that would expand some of this story a bit more...:laugh:..)...you kiwifarm phobic, you...

[Toy Soldier]

"Kiwi Farms, formerly known as CWCki Forums, is an American Internet forum dedicated to the ongoing harassment and stalking of online figures and communities it deems "lolcows": the eccentric, artistic, or mentally ill.[3] The targets of threads are often subject to doxing, sealioning and other forms of organized group trolling, including real-life harassment by users"

[Ammi]

"Kiwi Farms, formerly known as CWCki Forums, is an American Internet forum dedicated to the ongoing harassment and stalking of online figures and communities it deems "lolcows": the eccentric, artistic, or mentally ill.[3] The targets of threads are often subject to doxing, sealioning and other forms of organized group trolling, including real-life harassment by users"

...oooops similar to the DM, then..:laugh:...

[Kizzy]

I'd shave the guys balls for free, I have a nice rusty razor ready :laugh:

[Ammi]

...I guess what’s being said, TS...is that within ‘self ID’ and within protecting females, there are problems...there are loopholes and things that have to be addressed ...because there are those who can and will abuse and manipulate etc...and even if that is the smallest of percentages...which it quite likely could be...?...it’s something that many women fear and those fears have to be voiced and they have to be able to be voiced without another layer of fear of being labelled phobic...?...it’s very complex as you know...

[Kizzy]

The point of the matter is these new laws leave the door open for people like Yaniv to abuse, so why should trans rights trump womens rights and put them at risk?

Serious question TS, do you really think this is all about me being anti trans? I've always been pretty feminist, it's much more logical to assume that I'm just worried about womens rights. I'm sure I could go back a few years and find posts supporting Trans people pre Self IDing, If i tried. It is disappointing that you would think that about me I have to say

I'm about here... live and let live I say. But when the rights of one start trampling the rights of another? No
Womens rights were hard fought and hard won...to suggest they now come a poor second to self ID? ... nah mate.

[Mokka]

I think the way these threads are brought up and presented do usually contain elements of literal transphobia, yes. You can disagree and dislike that opinion but I'm just calling it as I see it. And again I'm talking about literal phobia - I get that these things are legitimately rooted in fear not bigotry - but it's a fear that's often out of proportion with the actual level of risk. Extreme examples are used as if they are, or are ever likely to be, commonplace occurrences. Liek there being a predatory paedophile in Canada exploiting trans rights to their own ends means that it'll become a global free-for-all. It isn't rational.

Thank you TS for this post.

[Kizzy]

It's not phobic to be concerned about precidents being set in court that marginalise women ..which is what happened in Canada.
There is a very real concern that that could translate here too. Why is it transphobic to have this opinion?
This is why women can't speak out as they are automatically given this horrible label.

[Kizzy]

I can accept that purely in the context of this thread, I may have gone in a little hard based on past experiences of these threads. Past threads on these topics have gone in a distinctly angry general anti-trans direction. I know there'll be people who will argue that they haven't, but for me that's not an opinion that's going to change.

I also can't agree that a thread about an obviously extreme example of a disturbed individual works well to support a general point. Does it mean things need to be looked at? Maybe, as a tiny fragment of a much broader discussion, but this is not the "Gotcha!!" moment that people want it to be. That would be like seeing a story about a dog attacking a child and announcing that "clearly" the regulations around dog ownership must be changed "and if you don't agree, you aren't considering the children".

But it is a gotcha moment. Not for trans people but in respect of the way courts handle these cases... its in Canada but it could just as easily be here. It's not in anyway phobic to voice a concern, being labelled phobic for having a say as a woman is wrong .

[Toy Soldier]

But it is a gotcha moment. Not for trans people but in respect of the way courts handle these cases... its in Canada but it could just as easily be here. It's not in anyway phobic to voice a concern, being labelled phobic for having a say as a woman is wrong .

"A Gotcha Moment" has no place in any rational debate or assessment of a situation though Kizzy. How many "gotcha moments" do Brexiteers and other anti-immigration advocates have, otherwise? Every terrorist incident involving an immigrant in the UK. Every drug crime committed by a Mexican immigrant in the US. "Gotcha gotcha gotcha!!" all day long from Trump, Hopkins, Tommy Robinson... right?

[Niamh.]

I decided to google the story to see if I could find an article that covers the story without any bias towards or against transgenderism and I couldn't really find any articles. It seems like mainstream media hasn't really bothered with this story at all.

If the story is as it's reported then the person in question is indeed a predator and should be treated as such. They use the law to run their con and worse still, it seems like they might actually be a peadophile. It's kinda remarkable that this story hasn't been picked up by the media yet, with more spotlight the victims in this story might finally get their justice.

I do disagree with the headline of this article in particular though, while I agree with self ID'ing yourself as transgender shouldn't be something that can be enforced on others by law, I dislike how this article seems to use this pathetic excuse of a human being to **** on transgender rights as a whole.

If you watch the video at the end of the article it's an actual interview with yaniv, so maybe that might be helpful? It is worrying though as to why a story like this hasn't been picked up by mainstream media imo

[Niamh.]

Its so extreme that he would more likely be facing a charge now if he weren't calling himself a woman, rather than being entertained by people who are fearful of repercussions

Exactly this is the whole issue, people are not allowed to speak about it for fear of backlash, look at what happened to martina Navratilova when she voiced her opinion on Self Iding in sport

[Toy Soldier]

If you watch the video at the end of the article it's an actual interview with yaniv, so maybe that might be helpful? It is worrying though as to why a story like this hasn't been picked up by mainstream media imo

Perhaps it hasn't been picked up because they know that it won't simply be taken as a story about a seriously messed up individual, but as "Gotcha" ammunition for a wider campaign, and there will be associated backlash. Though I suppose it's odd in the sense that the MSM isn't usually bothered about spoonfeeding people gunpowder.

[Ammi]

...I’m just listening to the interview now...it feels as though he chooses people who he knows will refuse for whatever reason...with the sole purpose of challenging them../...tribunals../...and settlements...

[Niamh.]

...Ricky Gervais is speaking out about this individual ....and being labelled a transphobe by some for doing so...


https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ricky-gervais-vs-jessica-yaniv-on-twitter.58756/

Here's a Twitter link to the Ricky Gervais comments (I don't know what Kiwi farm is either :p )

https://twitter.com/rickygervais/status/1152880570755686400

[Niamh.]

Perhaps it hasn't been picked up because they know that it won't simply be taken as a story about a seriously messed up individual, but as "Gotcha" ammunition for a wider campaign, and there will be associated backlash. Though I suppose it's odd in the sense that the MSM isn't usually bothered about spoonfeeding people gunpowder.

Or maybe they're afraid of being sued themselves, I don't think newspapers are that concerned about anything other than cash tbh :laugh:

[Ammi]

...with some of those women, it involved going to a stranger’s home....and that’s something which he’s not considering or allowing for ...or even trying to reassure ...but there is a safety element as well...he just seems to be dismissing everything said as transphobia...and off to court we go...

[Ammi]

Here's a Twitter link to the Ricky Gervais comments (I don't know what Kiwi farm is either :p )

https://twitter.com/rickygervais/status/1152880570755686400

...the thing is though which was the point of my post...*side-eyes TS and glares*...:laugh:..Ricky Gervais is commenting on it and on the radio station, it said it had been covered in National Media...so it is becoming more talked about..?...

...I have to say though at the risk of being shouted at..:laugh:...I am really disturbed by the content which involves female children which is very predatory...and the trans thing seems to be quashing that a little...

[Ammi]

...it’s a farm for homeless kiwis apparently...I sent a donation earlier...

[Twosugars]

...it’s a farm for homeless kiwis apparently...I sent a donation earlier...

Don't you love kiwis :love: so cute

[Kizzy]

"A Gotcha Moment" has no place in any rational debate or assessment of a situation though Kizzy. How many "gotcha moments" do Brexiteers and other anti-immigration advocates have, otherwise? Every terrorist incident involving an immigrant in the UK. Every drug crime committed by a Mexican immigrant in the US. "Gotcha gotcha gotcha!!" all day long from Trump, Hopkins, Tommy Robinson... right?

Then let's call it an aha moment or an hmm moment... why are you aligning this to completely uncomparable issues ts?
As I clearly stated the issue is not with the trans community or anyone's opinions relating to that.
This is specifically regarding the courts and how they are handling the case in Canada.

[Toy Soldier]

Then let's call it an aha moment or an hmm moment... why are you aligning this to completely uncomparable issues ts?
As I clearly stated the issue is not with the trans community or anyone's opinions relating to that.
This is specifically regarding the courts and how they are handling the case in Canada.

It's not uncomparable. It's about taking extreme, highly publicized examples and using them as "proof" that people were "right all along" about a wider issue.

[Niamh.]

...the thing is though which was the point of my post...*side-eyes TS and glares*...:laugh:..Ricky Gervais is commenting on it and on the radio station, it said it had been covered in National Media...so it is becoming more talked about..?...

...I have to say though at the risk of being shouted at..:laugh:...I am really disturbed by the content which involves female children which is very predatory...and the trans thing seems to be quashing that a little...

Yes absolutely. And why is Yaniv not being investigated is the question?

[Niamh.]

Then let's call it an aha moment or an hmm moment... why are you aligning this to completely uncomparable issues ts?
As I clearly stated the issue is not with the trans community or anyone's opinions relating to that.
This is specifically regarding the courts and how they are handling the case in Canada.

Exactly

[Cherie]

All that was said all along is that some people would use it as an opportunity, that has been proven correct, it doesn't matter who you are or what you do there will always be people willing to exploit, it doesn't really matter if the percentage of those taking advantage is miniscule (though this doesn't appear to be the case in sport where scholarships and cash are the opportunity), closing the gate after the horse has bolted is not the answer, and as we are seeing the authorities are struggling to deal with the opportunists in a competent way

[Ammi]

...I don’t think it’s a ‘gotcha moment’, TS...three women have lost their jobs and one women has lost her business because what they did for an income involved female genitalia ...and here was someone who presented male genitalia, saying I’m sorry but you have to...one of the women had a child/children in the house and felt it completely inappropriate...and even though this is a story about a specifically disturbing individual/one person...it doesn’t make it any less terrifying to many females that a man is basically saying..’you have to touch me’....and if you don’t I’ll destroy part of your life...and that’s why it’s so emotive...

[Toy Soldier]

...I don’t think it’s a ‘gotcha moment’, TS...three women have lost their jobs and one women has lost her business because what they did for an income involved female genitalia ...and here was someone who presented male genitalia, saying I’m sorry but you have to...one of the women had a child/children in the house and felt it completely inappropriate...and even though this is a story about a specifically disturbing individual/one person...it doesn’t make it any less terrifying to many females that a man is basically saying..’you have to touch me’....and if you don’t I’ll destroy part of your life...and that’s why it’s so emotive...

It is awful and it is emotive, but it doesn't necessarily mean there should be a restriction on or reversing of trans rights. Or that we shouldn't address the parts that do need to be addressed carefully and sensitively rather than from a place of defensive fear and anger. That's an important part of the equation, here.

[Ammi]

It is awful and it is emotive, but it doesn't necessarily mean there should be a restriction on or reversing of trans rights. Or that we shouldn't address the parts that do need to be addressed carefully and sensitively rather than from a place of defensive fear and anger. That's an important part of the equation, here.

...I completely agree with you, I mean totally...but I guess what is being felt atm also is that these women were not protected by any laws or any human rights court, so nothing for them was addressed which would say equality..?....what was demanded from them was then validated ‘in law’...and that’s an important part as well...this is a story of one person, yes...but it’s also a story of the human rights courts validation of that person...

[Cherie]

It is awful and it is emotive, but it doesn't necessarily mean there should be a restriction on or reversing of trans rights. Or that we shouldn't address the parts that do need to be addressed carefully and sensitively rather than from a place of defensive fear and anger. That's an important part of the equation, here.

It appears that this case has been addressed far too sensitively and carefully for the wrong party, of course people are going to be angry

[bots]

people get angry any time there is injustice, and this is no different. There shouldn't be any excuses, there should be a change so it doesnt happen again

[Mokka]

I wasn't going to post in this thread... I tend to avoid all the trans threads started on this forum as they are only ever highlighting negatives of trans people in our communities, and hyper focusing on negative issues amongst the minority of trans people.
I had read of this case prior to Niamh starting the thread... and I also sat down with my own trans kid to have an open discussion about what is happening in this situation.
It seems obvious to me that this individual is seeking out, in a very wrong manner, reasons to accuse other people of transphobia to bring to the legal system to create a precedent. Now Kizzy has said in here if I recall that she in particular takes issue with how the legal system in Canada is handling this (or these) cases. I am not aware if any cases have been won yet in this area, but that they are all in legal proceedings from the reputable news source i went to. To that I say, if she didn't have any grounds for a case, the court would not have let it go in front of a judge. I myself have been brought in front of a judge for something that I didn't believe the claimant had grounds to do.... it was thrown out later on. It was a hardship and inconvenience at the time.... but justice worked it's course. That seems to be what is happening here. We live in a litigious society. The people harmed by her false accusations can counter sue back afterwards. That's unfortunately how our justice system works.

But... I strongly agree with everything TS has said in this thread... as a woman who thinks he is allowed an opinion despite his penis... and as someone who knows a fair decent amount of decent trans people. Women's liberties are not being stepped on. There are legalities on how our society should and can go forward to further include trans people as equal citizens... and that will get worked out more and more over time...
But the long standing claim on here that all male to female trans people are treading on the long fought victories in equality for woman is false... and is a masked version of transphobia.

Sorry for the essay

[Kizzy]

It's not uncomparable. It's about taking extreme, highly publicized examples and using them as "proof" that people were "right all along" about a wider issue.

Not even nearly just stick to the topic under discussion ts why the distracting hypotheticals?
There was a concern that the law would be exploited and guess what it has, that is a cold hard fact. Highlighting that is not detrimental to the trans community, I'm sure they'll be equally as outraged that the law has chosen to exonerate a predator.

[Kizzy]

I wasn't going to post in this thread... I tend to avoid all the trans threads started on this forum as they are only ever highlighting negatives of trans people in our communities, and hyper focusing on negative issues amongst the minority of trans people.
I had read of this case prior to Niamh starting the thread... and I also sat down with my own trans kid to have an open discussion about what is happening in this situation.
It seems obvious to me that this individual is seeking out, in a very wrong manner, reasons to accuse other people of transphobia to bring to the legal system to create a precedent. Now Kizzy has said in here if I recall that she in particular takes issue with how the legal system in Canada is handling this (or these) cases. I am not aware if any cases have been won yet in this area, but that they are all in legal proceedings from the reputable news source i went to. To that I say, if she didn't have any grounds for a case, the court would not have let it go in front of a judge. I myself have been brought in front of a judge for something that I didn't believe the claimant had grounds to do.... it was thrown out later on. It was a hardship and inconvenience at the time.... but justice worked it's course. That seems to be what is happening here. We live in a litigious society. The people harmed by her false accusations can counter sue back afterwards. That's unfortunately how our justice system works.

But... I strongly agree with everything TS has said in this thread... as a woman who thinks he is allowed an opinion despite his penis... and as someone who knows a fair decent amount of decent trans people. Women's liberties are not being stepped on. There are legalities on how our society should and can go forward to further include trans people as equal citizens... and that will get worked out more and more over time...
But the long standing claim on here that all male to female trans people are treading on the long fought victories in equality for woman is false... and is a masked version of transphobia.

Sorry for the essay
Let me be clear ... I'm not saying that the trans community are treading on anything... my issue is how this issue specifically has been dealt with in isolation.
I have voiced a concern that in time similar cases may occur in the UK.
That is not in any way transphobic... it has nothing to do with the trans community and everything to do with the legal system.
It is relatively clear from the interview that this person is a predator, I am only at this time commenting on this one case. I haven't expressed any opinion or view on the wider subject of trans rights...Therefore I don't feel it is fair to insinuate any perceived transphobia based on my comments in this thread masked or otherwise.

[Toy Soldier]

It's not a hypothetical, it's an example of a comparable situation that would be viewed differently and perfectly relevant to the thread topic. Because no one is arguing that loopholes are being exploited and manipulated for individual gain here; it's the very clear subtext on "what that means when it comes to wider trans issues" that is questionable.

[Mokka]

Let me be clear ... I'm not saying that the trans community are treading on anything... my issue is how this issue specifically has been dealt with in isolation.
I have voiced a concern that in time similar cases may occur in the UK.
That is not in any way transphobic... it has nothing to do with the trans community and everything to do with the legal system.
It is relatively clear from the interview that this person is a predator, I am only at this time commenting on this one case. I haven't expressed any opinion or view on the wider subject of trans rights...Therefore I don't feel it is fair to insinuate any perceived transphobia based on my comments in this thread masked or otherwise.

I didn't... I only referred to your post as it related to legal issues... which I thought I made clear by separating my comment on it from my other references.

[Kizzy]

It's not a hypothetical, it's an example of a comparable situation that would be viewed differently and perfectly relevant to the thread topic. Because no one is arguing that loopholes are being exploited and manipulated for individual gain here; it's the very clear subtext on "what that means when it comes to wider trans issues" that is questionable.

No it isn't. .. There's no way in heaven that rights of a terrorist would be given priority over the public, and a terrorist is a criminal... where is the criminal in this situation?

[Cherie]

There isn't much comfort in being able to sue someone who more than likely hasn't got a pot to piss in once you have lost your business, income, and reputation.

The only reason imo this has got to court is because the guy is identifying as trans and as we can see from how people are immediately labelled on this forum, in the real world people are fearful of losing their jobs or putting a foot wrong in case of an almighty life ruining backlash. The trans community should be up in arms about this guy, he is an opportunist and is exploiting them

When Holly and Jessica were murdered by a school caretaker, the way school staff were vetted was changed so this was less likely to happen ever again

When Vanessa George was convicted of using her mobile phone in a nursery setting, steps were taken and staff can no longer use their mobiles while working into a nursery setting.

school staff or nursery staff were not up in arms at the changes, nor did they feel victimised in any way, they were welcomed as a safeguarding measure.

The point being we shouldn't need to have 'loads of cases' before something is done to stop opportunists

In the same way the trans and wider community need to be safeguarded against opportunists, not sure who is going to put their head above the parapet to do it, but it needs to be done

[Ammi]

...for the moment, this story has run its course for me, just because I’m driving myself google crazy in trying to find more in depth information about this person...I mean they are meant to be a ‘notorious Canadian pervert’...and there are some deeply disturbing things reported..and yet no police involvement ...and with the underage topless swimming contest ...where are the outraged parents etc...why is predatory behaviour with children being almost skipped over as a bi-story...I just don’t know what to think about this tbh but i just don’t think we’re getting anywhere near a full story...or something is very off about it for me...

...I mean if this person for instance were a troll then surely that’s an offence and there would have been police involvement because of the serious nature of the trolling ...

[Toy Soldier]

...for the moment, this story has run its course for me, just because I’m driving myself google crazy in trying to find more in depth information about this person...I mean they are meant to be a ‘notorious Canadian pervert’...and there are some deeply disturbing things reported..and yet no police involvement ...and with the underage topless swimming contest ...where are the outraged parents etc...why is predatory behaviour with children being almost skipped over as a bi-story...I just don’t know what to think about this tbh but i just don’t think we’re getting anywhere near a full story...or something is very off about it for me...

...I mean if this person for instance were a troll then surely that’s an offence and there would have been police involvement because of the serious nature of the trolling ...

Indeed Ammi, I know this individual exists and that they seem to be awful, but beyond that, the story has been latched onto by groups with a very clear and distinct agenda and so the actual facts are clear as mud. People are "OUTRAGED!" about what currently amounts to internet gossip and half truthes and why? I wonder? It seems pretty clear to me that it's simply because they want to. They want to believe that any tidbit of "bad" that can be gleaned from any random forum post on this is true, because it confirms their already-present fears and suspicions about transexuals.

"ReeeEEeeEeee here he goes again Psychic Sally thinking he somehow knows what other people are thinking!!! Misogynist Bob daring to tell women what they think how dare!!"

Just to pre-empt this tired, limp old response: No I'm not psychic, nor do I think I'm psychic, but I'm perfectly entitled to read between the lines when forming my opinions. If you don't like my opinion... well, I don't care so tough luck buddy :shrug:

[bots]

Indeed Ammi, I know this individual exists and that they seem to be awful, but beyond that, the story has been latched onto by groups with a very clear and distinct agenda and so the actual facts are clear as mud. People are "OUTRAGED!" about what currently amounts to internet gossip and half truthes and why? I wonder? It seems pretty clear to me that it's simply because they want to. They want to believe that any tidbit of "bad" that can be gleaned from any random forum post on this is true, because it confirms their already-present fears and suspicions about transexuals.

"ReeeEEeeEeee here he goes again Psychic Sally thinking he somehow knows what other people are thinking!!! Misogynist Bob daring to tell women what they think how dare!!"

Just to pre-empt this tired, limp old response: No I'm not psychic, nor do I think I'm psychic, but I'm perfectly entitled to read between the lines when forming my opinions. If you don't like my opinion... well, I don't care so tough luck buddy :shrug:

With respect TS that is nonsense. People are concerned that new rules are allowing exploitation. We know no more than that, and by doing your own association, you are simply furthering your own agenda which is to silence people that don't agree with your philosophy.

[Niamh.]

With respect TS that is nonsense. People are concerned that new rules are allowing exploitation. We know no more than that, and by doing your own association, you are simply furthering your own agenda which is to silence people that don't agree with your philosophy.

Indeed.

[Ammi]

...what’s not helping this story ...(...imo...)...is that it seems huge in terms of his perversions ...and yet its main focus of interest...(...from any and all media sources reporting it...)...seems to be very focused on one aspect....with other disturbing things more being skipped over...

[Niamh.]

...just going to this for a minute with the thread title and the leaning of the posts being more toward the trans aspect, rather than other stuff....this is how it’s being reported anywhere it is being reported, TS...the main focus of all reported stories is that this person feels a woman cannot say no to touching their intimate parts, otherwise it’s showing prejudice..?..

Exactly and if Yaniv can get to court with that and put women out of business/extort money from them, these new Self ID laws need looking at.

[Kizzy]

And in your eyes she is still the victim...
You haven't passed one comment on the beauticians in this case, where is your concern for their mental health?...

[Niamh.]

And in your eyes she is still the victim...
You haven't passed one comment on the beauticians in this case, where is your concern for their mental health?...

they seem targeted aswell, women who were struggling a bit, single mothers and immigrants who may not have the means to fight their case and stand up for themselves properly

[Vicky.]

Yaniv is a disgusting individual, but the fact that this whole farce has been able to get as far as it has is possibly even worse. Women put out of business for refusing to touch someones balls for ****s sake. I thought this was a joke at first when I first read about it years back. Have referred to balldemort on here before actually in passing. But yeah, of course self ID opens the doors for perverts such as yaniv. Which has always been the feminist argument tbh (though almost always misreprsented as 'you think all trans people are perverts!!!111'). Yes, men will perv anyway, but why make it easier for them..and basically allow situations such as the one thats currently going on.

Have been following this quite closely and tbh, it does seem hes going to lose this, as he should. But that they hav been dragged to court to start with, is ****ing ridiculous and the system really needs to be looked at. Also Yaniv needs treatment for his obvious mental health issues. And locking away from kids forever, too tbh.

Also sorry, **** calling an abusive bloke like this she. Him and his mother are raging racists, ontop of everything else, from the court transcripts. Media might start picking it up now, there was a reporting ban on until very recently, as Yaniv said his privacy would be rbeached, yadayada..but the judge just overturned it as Yaniv has been posting on his twitter about the case.

The women were of course right to refuse. They did not have training in waxing men. Andf its very very different. Hell, if they had done it, they might have damaged him permanently. And honestly, even without that, just the fact they didn't want to touch his dick should be enough to lose the matter entirely. Not go through months of court cases.

[Ammi]

I didn't Ammi and I can only put that down to my own bias :umm2:. All I can say is, I understand being questioning and I even think in this case there IS a possibility that this individual is not being genuine; although if I had to go completely into the realms of guesswork I'd suggest there being perhaps a genuine trans identification that has been badly, badly mishandled in this person's past and has lead to fetishization and predatory activity.

All I would say though is no matter what the stance is on legal self-ID, it's totally separate to individual self-ID and really the gender that someone claims, should at least be respected in words / pronouns, even if there are no legal or access rights along with it or until later in the process.

For example - as far as I'm aware - legal self-ID is not really "a thing" in the UK yet and there are several steps to full legal transition. My wife has worked with several teenagers exploring transgender and the general rule of thumb is, while the road to OFFICIALLY changing gender is a long one, you still refer to that individual as "he", "she" etc. of their CHOSEN gender as soon as they ask for that to be done. It doesn't mean their passport is going to state their chosen gender or they will be legally considered their chosen gender, it's just etiquette.

So yeah... the awful person this thread is about... should be "she" until she says otherwise.

...you’re own bias...:laugh:..as in ‘seek and you shall find’, which is what I touched on earlier...that what you were looking for../...expecting or whatever was not really there as such or maybe a little but you may have helped cause it ...is that fair..?...it actually was there with me though and you completely missed it because you were over scrutinising elsewhere..?.../...to a degree obviously because I’m not laying all fault with you, not one bit...I honestly don’t know if this person is transitioning at all, which is my reluctance...or if it’s all just money/income generating..?...they were very precise about how much money was gained from each tribunal...(...I feel..)...as though this person may research who they feel would refuse to wax and then target them with the sole intention of...

[Toy Soldier]

And in your eyes she is still the victim...
You haven't passed one comment on the beauticians in this case, where is your concern for their mental health?...

I haven't sympathised with them once and have repeatedly referred to them as a dangerous, predatory paedophile. Honestly if you look into it - as awful as the effect on the beautician's livelihoods has been - this is the LEAST of what this person is out there doing and I think there is probably a very real risk posed.

I've also said multiple times that the legal loopholes that are being used to exploit people and destroy their businesses need to be addressed and, in fact, I'm sure I said (or at least I have when discussing this elsewhere) that I think it's ridiculous that a business that involves getting up close and personal with people's genitals doesn't have the right to refuse service without question.

None of this has anything to do with whether or not gender pronouns should be respected? Like I said, an M2F serial killer should still be "she". It doesn't mean I sympathise with their crimes?

[Vicky.]

The pronoun argument, Yaniv goes by both he and she too. He uses both Jonathon and Jessica as names also. So its not really possible to misgender him, as he uses both depending on the situation..

[Ammi]

...why is this story just coming to light if it’s been well known for many years, as Vicky is saying...and what about the predatory behaviour with children...has that not been investigated ...and if it has, things have been posted so why no conviction..?....


....uggghhhh I said before I was done with this story for the moment ...it’s too confusing and conflicting and something is defiantly off about it...just not enough information...

[Vicky.]

...why is this story just coming to light if it’s been well known for many years, as Vicky is saying...and what about the predatory behaviour with children...has that not been investigated ...and if it has, things have been posted so why no conviction..?....


....uggghhhh I said before I was done with this story for the moment ...it’s too confusing and conflicting and something is defiantly off about it...just not enough information...

He is very good at getting mention of him wiped from existence. No diea about no conviction. Morgane Oger..a prominent transactivist in Canada has posted about him before too..2 secs. The predatory side of it is absolutely true.

Edit. Ogers take on this..

https://morganeoger.ca/2019/04/19/preying-on-children-makes-you-a-predator-regardless-of-who-you-are/

And no one could possibly call Oger transphobic, by any stretch of the imagination.

[Ammi]

The pronoun argument, Yaniv goes by both he and she too. He uses both Jonathon and Jessica as names also. So its not really possible to misgender him, as he uses both depending on the situation..

...yeah that was the other thing actually which I forgot ...it had stated the person identified by both he and she../..using Jonathan and Jessica...so I made a decision which I would use because I don’t atm believe anything about them...again this is a very unique and individual case with no direct comparisons...

[Kizzy]

they seem targeted aswell, women who were struggling a bit, single mothers and immigrants who may not have the means to fight their case and stand up for themselves properly

Yes I agree there will be lots of places who said yes to the treatment, from the interview there are multiple businesses being sued. Some have settled, some gone out of business and many still ongoing cases the amount of money involved is $8000- $15,000!
And our sympathy should be with this exploitative preditor?

[Ammi]

Yes I agree there will be lots of places who said yes to the treatment, from the interview there are multiple businesses being sued. Some have settled, some gone out of business and many still ongoing cases the amount of money involved is $8000- $15,000!
And our sympathy should be with this exploitative preditor?

...it was very precise about the money sums as the interviewer made an error with one amount and it was immediately corrected...that’s one of the things that is really off for me...the winning of the tribunals seemed to be all about the cash over not feeling as though equality was being applied...

[Vicky.]

Vicky has just said that it's been going on for years and she's posted on here about this very individual before. There are whole websites about this person. It's not THAT under wraps, is it.

It is quite under wraps still tbf. He gets pretty much all mention of his name removed from twitter by legal proceedings, mention of his name pretty much anywhere, half expecting james to get a legal letter over this thread.

When he loses this tribunal (as I cannot even contemplate that he could win..what precident would that set for women?!) I imagine some of the canadian papers might pick up on it a bit more. There WAS a reporting restriction until a couple of days ago..quite surprised its not all out properly now and still seems to be quite hush hush.

The only reason there is a website specifically about him too..is because he was so sucessful at getting peoples posts about him deleted everywhere.

Either way, clear predator, clearly mentally ill, clearly should lose. And a clear problem with self-ID and how the system is going/set up.

[Vicky.]

Niamh often posts about feminist stuff tbh. And you cannot really get more of a feminist issue, than a bloke trying to sue (multiple) women for refusing to touch his balls. And the system allowing this circus when surely, anyone with half a brain can see whats going on here.

[Twosugars]

Forgive a lighter mode, but am I the only one who finds the word scrotum funny? :laugh:
A scrotal sack is even funnier


Ok, sorry.

[Ammi]

...I still don’t understand, Vicky...(...sorry I’m not being antagonistic...)....but Yaniv is restricting any reporting of and yet I believe it was Yaniv who posted inside the tribunal of what took place...surely that’s odd and conflicting...

[Toy Soldier]

Forgive a lighter mode, but am I the only one who finds the word scrotum funny? :laugh:
A scrotal sack is even funnier


Ok, sorry.

I always liked it in EastEnders when they referred to people as a "scrote", like... just calling people a ballbag on prime time telly.

[Vicky.]

...I still don’t understand, Vicky...(...sorry I’m not being antagonistic...)....but Yaniv is restricting any reporting of and yet I believe it was Yaniv who posted inside the tribunal of what took place...surely that’s odd and conflicting...

Its all confusing. Yaniv claimed that reporting would impact his privacy (and 'out' his trans status too..IIRC..which is odd as he is openly trans) so there was a restriction. However, Yaniv has throughout the tribunal been posting about the case, so naturally the judge said..well hang on, if you are concerned about privacy issues, then why are you posting about it yourself?! Hes appealing the restriction being lifted, but don't think he will be sucessful there.

Its all just..baffling tbh.

[Ammi]

Its all confusing. Yaniv claimed that reporting would impact his privacy (and 'out' his trans status too..IIRC..which is odd as he is openly trans) so there was a restriction. However, Yaniv has throughout the tribunal been posting about the case, so naturally the judge said..well hang on, if you are concerned about privacy issues, then why are you posting about it yourself?! Hes appealing the restriction being lifted, but don't think he will be sucessful there.

Its all just..baffling tbh.

..that’s why I’m finding it difficult to get my thoughts together on and comment on because I feel as though we’re only getting half a story ...and the half a story we’re getting is almost designed to cause these kind of reactions that we’re getting in this thread...a trolling, divisive effect ..because so much is barely being touched on by the media who are reporting.../...really worrying stuff of a terrifying predator...this isn’t a trans issue so much as a predator issue ...

[Vicky.]

..that’s why I’m finding it difficult to get my thoughts together on and comment on because I feel as though we’re only getting half a story ...and the half a story we’re getting is almost designed to cause these kind of reactions that we’re getting in this thread...a trolling, divisive effect ..because so much is barely being touched on by the media who are reporting.../...really worrying stuff of a terrifying predator...this isn’t a trans issue so much as a predator issue ...

Quite. Same as the issue with selfID has always been tbh. **** all to do with transsexuals (actually many transsexuals disagree with self ID too anyway) and all to do with loopholes and perverts.

[Vicky.]

http://archive.is/xqu5H
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1148630107570880512.html

Couple of updates from tribunal, not sure if they have been posted, but its fascinating, seeing the 'neo nazi' type arguments.

The period fetish thing weirds me out almost more than the obsession with young girls. Mind, the young girls thing is linked to the period thing too it seems :umm2:

[Ammi]

http://archive.is/xqu5H
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1148630107570880512.html

Couple of updates from tribunal, not sure if they have been posted, but its fascinating, seeing the 'neo nazi' type arguments.

The period fetish thing weirds me out almost more than the obsession with young girls. Mind, the young girls thing is linked to the period thing too it seems :umm2:

...it’s weird and gets more weird...it states there is a ban on making public anything from the tribunal proceedings...but there’s more or less the full transcript online plus a video recording...I mean how was it not noticed that someone was taking a video recording throughout something like that...?...all odd...

[Vicky.]

...it’s weird and gets more weird...it states there is a ban on making public anything from the tribunal proceedings...but there’s more or less the full transcript online plus a video recording...I mean how was it not noticed that someone was taking a video recording throughout something like that...?...all odd...

The actual recording was only after the reporting ban was lifted.

Otherwise, it seems the case could be spoke about, but not using Yanivs actual name. or something.

all very odd, regardless :laugh:

[Vicky.]

https://mobile.twitter.com/goinglikeelsie/status/1152403630974046208
https://mobile.twitter.com/goinglikeelsie/status/1153070487347400704
Some more too. First few days of the tribunal, only one person was in the gallery apparently, seems more are getting interested..journalist types have been showing up recently too.

[Ammi]

...I guess a lot has to do with whether it’s believed Jonathan/Jessica Yaniv is a transgender in the first instance...I just don’t believe it atm, which is why I’m not comfortable with ‘she’...I think it’s an opportunist who may also be a predator...but I’m not even entirely convinced of that...and if this is an opportunist...?...then obviously the worries are surfacing about self ID and opportunism and abuse of...

[Kizzy]

I didn't... I only referred to your post as it related to legal issues... which I thought I made clear by separating my comment on it from my other references.

Well I'll try again with this seeing as my comment has gone...
The legal issues ARE the issue. In relation to human rights, it is only this that has been allegedly violated.

[Kizzy]

I haven't sympathised with them once and have repeatedly referred to them as a dangerous, predatory paedophile. Honestly if you look into it - as awful as the effect on the beautician's livelihoods has been - this is the LEAST of what this person is out there doing and I think there is probably a very real risk posed.

I've also said multiple times that the legal loopholes that are being used to exploit people and destroy their businesses need to be addressed and, in fact, I'm sure I said (or at least I have when discussing this elsewhere) that I think it's ridiculous that a business that involves getting up close and personal with people's genitals doesn't have the right to refuse service without question.

None of this has anything to do with whether or not gender pronouns should be respected? Like I said, an M2F serial killer should still be "she". It doesn't mean I sympathise with their crimes?

Yes you did.... you made excuses that the mishandling of their transition could've led to the manifestation of predatory behaviour!
In this case both sets are applicable as both are used.

[Toy Soldier]

Yes you did.... you made excuses that the mishandling of their transition could've led to the manifestation of predatory behaviour!
In this case both sets are applicable as both are used.

Reasons and explanations for abnormal psychology always exist, are usually fascinating and interesting to understand, and are not by any means excuses, or expressions of sympathy. Unless you believe that the entire academic discipline of criminal psychology boils down to "excuse making".

This is a discussion that's been done to death on this forum across a myriad of discussions. It's not worth ploughing through again.

[Kizzy]

Reasons and explanations for abnormal psychology always exist, are usually fascinating and interesting to understand, and are not by any means excuses, or expressions of sympathy. Unless you believe that the entire academic discipline of criminal psychology boils down to "excuse making".

This is a discussion that's been done to death on this forum across a myriad of discussions. It's not worth ploughing through again.

Ah right do now youve had my comments counter to yours removed youve had enough? Youre not a psychologist ts.

But lets pretend, should I be one personally I'd say your focus on the preditor than the women preyed on in this scenario speaks volumes.

[Toy Soldier]

Ah right do now youve had my comments counter to yours removed youve had enough? Youre not a psychologist ts.

But lets pretend, should I be one personally I'd say your focus on the preditor than the women preyed on in this scenario speaks volumes.

The fact that you think you have to "be a psychologist" to be interested in psychology is a bit bizarre Kizzy. You're not a politician, why are you always on here talking about politics? No one on that thread about seagulls eating a puppy is an ornithologist, so what are those dummies talking about seagulls for? LT isn't a meteorologist so his weather thread? TRASH. It's just such a massive reach that I'm worried you'll give yourself some sort of virtual hernia :worry:.

There's nothing abnormal or interesting about the psychology of the people affected by this individual's actions so obviously the predator is more interesting than the victims. I feel awful for them, they have been badly let down, but the whole point is that they're just normal people caught up in something bizarre?

That's why there are movies about John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy not their victims. That's why there are literally innumerable documentaries about prolific criminals that focus on the perpetrator more than the victims. I suppose all of those "speak volumes" as well?

[Kizzy]

The fact that you think you have to "be a psychologist" to be interested in psychology is a bit bizarre Kizzy. You're not a politician, why are you always on here talking about politics? No one on that thread about seagulls eating a puppy is an ornithologist, so what are those dummies talking about seagulls for? LT isn't a meteorologist so his weather thread? TRASH. It's just such a massive reach that I'm worried you'll give yourself some sort of virtual hernia :worry:.

There's nothing abnormal or interesting about the psychology of the people affected by this individual's actions so obviously the predator is more interesting than the victims. I feel awful for them, they have been badly let down, but the whole point is that they're just normal people caught up in something bizarre?

That's why there are movies about John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy not their victims. That's why there are literally innumerable documentaries about prolific criminals that focus on the perpetrator more than the victims. I suppose all of those "speak volumes" as well?

Now who's gaslighting? :laugh:
Reasons and explanations indeed, you know nothing ts, you might have an interest but it doesn't mean you know anything :/
All you have is as much as myself or anyone else in this thread an opinion.
I don't find exploitative people interesting, it's just a con artist trying to pull a fast one, so forgive me if I don't share your hero worship of this person.

[Toy Soldier]

Now who's gaslighting? :laugh:
Reasons and explanations indeed, you know nothing ts, you might have an interest but it doesn't mean you know anything :/
All you have is as much as myself or anyone else in this thread an opinion.
I don't find exploitative people interesting, it's just a con artist trying to pull a fast one, so forgive me if I don't share your hero worship of this person.

I haven't suggested that I know the reasons? I've just said that they must exist and mused about what they might be. Where did I even vaguely suggest it's anything more than an opinion? As for the suggestion that I'm "hero worshipping", you're just flat out trolling at that point Kizzy. If you think suggesting that someone is hero worshipping a paedophile is taking the moral high ground in any way, or a suitable "snap back" for... well, pretty much anything, then I'd suggest taking a breath. Honestly.

[Kizzy]

You've suggested you know the reason why some members of the forum engage in these debates, our involvement has been analysed to the nth degree... why wouldn't I think you haven't applied the same energy to the subject here? Now you say your opinion is simply musings?...
The morbid curiosity that surrounds serial killers is not relevant here surely?... This is just, lets face it a chancer that you have chosen to elevate in an attempt to evaluate his actions as someone more complex in order to explain away his criminality.

[Oliver_W]

bnhnShhxfhQ

Yaniv is debating trans youtuber Blaire White this evening!

[Kizzy]

Interesting, I agreed with her take on the whole issue when I watched that.

[Ammi]

...what did you watch, Kizzy...I can’t get anything to play..?..

[Oliver_W]

...what did you watch, Kizzy...I can’t get anything to play..?..

Blaire had previously made a video about Yaniv

MI_lXO7zrAQ

[Ammi]

....ahhh thank you so much..:love:...I’ll give it a watch in a bit...

[Oliver_W]

....ahhh thank you so much..:love:...I’ll give it a watch in a bit...

The one you couldn't get to play will be a live broadcast tonight:)

[Ammi]

The one you couldn't get to play will be a live broadcast tonight:)

..yeah that’s why I was a bit confused when Kizzy said she had watched it...:laugh:..but I see what was meant, I’m a bit slow....it was an interesting watch...I guess a lot of what she says fits with my reluctance in referring to Yaniv in a gender term...because I’m just not entirely convinced that this person is nothing but a very disturbing sexual predator who is also ‘working a lawsuit system’....

[Vicky.]

Ah I do have a soft spot for Blaire. Even though shes a republican :laugh:

[Vicky.]

My prediction is Yaniv will cry and leave after a few mins.

[Oliver_W]

I just hope she's careful, he's pretty litigious ...

[Kizzy]

..yeah that’s why I was a bit confused when Kizzy said she had watched it...:laugh:..but I see what was meant, I’m a bit slow....it was an interesting watch...I guess a lot of what she says fits with my reluctance in referring to Yaniv in a gender term...because I’m just not entirely convinced that this person is nothing but a very disturbing sexual predator who is also ‘working a lawsuit system’....

Sorry it did read like I'd watched the live stream :/ I meant the other one .

[Vicky.]

I just hope she's careful, he's pretty litigious ...

Ahaha, conntender for understatement of the century tbh :p

Thats possibly his plan to be quite honest. Try to sue her as I am sure shes pretty well off from what I have seen of her. Hopefully the courts tell him to piss off soon, its clear has just taking advantage of silly laws and such.

[Ammi]

Sorry it did read like I'd watched the live stream :/ I meant the other one .

...I’m not the quickest morning person...:laugh:...I kept trying to watch an empty vid and wondered what magic you held ...:laugh:..

[Kizzy]

I don't think yaniv has sued an individual has he, I thought he just sued the businesses on human rights grounds for refusal of service?

[Vicky.]

I don't think yaniv has sued an individual has he, I thought he just sued the businesses on human rights grounds for refusal of service?

Technically yeah as far as I know, but suing the businesses of single (meaning, only they are employed, not single single) women working out of their homes, is kind of the same thing as suing individuals IMO.

Human rights :laugh: It is not a human right to force women to touch your balls tbh. Its just so ridiculous I don't understand why the courts are even entertaining it all.

[Kizzy]

Technically yeah as far as I know, but suing the businesses of single (meaning, only they are employed, not single single) women working out of their homes, is kind of the same thing as suing individuals IMO.

Human rights :laugh: It is not a human right to force women to touch your balls tbh. Its just so ridiculous I don't understand why the courts are even entertaining it all.
Ah yeah they were just loan businesswoman, I'm guessing that's why they were targetted but yaniv wont be able to get Blair for refusal of service.. :laugh:

[Vicky.]

Ah yeah they were just loan businesswoman, I'm guessing that's why they were targetted but yaniv wont be able to get Blair for refusal of service.. :laugh:

Hate speech or something though possibly, if she 'misgenders' him. I'm sure he will think of something.

They seem to have been targetted for being both lone busineswomen, and being immigrants (and religious, in a couple of them). Or so it seems by whats being said in the tribunal thing.

[Oliver_W]

Yaniv is so annoying in this stream. He claims to menstruate, haha.


But Blaire is gonna donate all proceeds from the stream to the business affected by him <3

[Mystic Mock]

Why is a pervert being entertained by the law? Just tell him to **** off.

[Oliver_W]

Why is a pervert being entertained by the law? Just tell him to **** off.

Oh Canada ...

[Vicky.]

https://twitter.com/goinglikeelsie/status/1155116276710117381

More notes from tribunal. So obvious this is a fetish for Yaniv..'women get wet when being waxed' and stuff, along with claiming to have periods and wanting 10 year old girls to help him with his pads and that :umm2:

[Oliver_W]

https://twitter.com/goinglikeelsie/status/1155116276710117381

More notes from tribunal. So obvious this is a fetish for Yaniv..'women get wet when being waxed' and stuff, along with claiming to have periods and wanting 10 year old girls to help him with his pads and that :umm2:

During the stream with BW he showed off his taser - they're illegal in Canada, and his house was subsequently raided :laugh:

[Vicky.]

During the stream with BW he showed off his taser - they're illegal in Canada, and his house was subsequently raided :laugh:

I did read that but wasn't sure if it was true or not...if it was a proper raid, I wonder what else they found, given how dodgy he is D:

[Oliver_W]

I did read that but wasn't sure if it was true or not...if it was a proper raid, I wonder what else they found, given how dodgy he is D:

I've not read into it, but BW's scheduled livestream for tonight is called "Jessica Laniv Arrested Party" haha, so I'm sure she'll spill the tea. I don't really watch her streams though unless they're debates, it's all "Heyy guyyyys do you like my makeup? I went walking todaaayyy. Thanks (name) for the superchat!" so I'll probably just read it up on KF ;)

[Niamh.]

Common sense prevails, thankfully!

Transgender Activist Loses Cases Against Female Estheticians Who Refused To Wax Male Genitals

Transgender activist Jessica Yaniv, a biological male who identifies as a female, filed at least 15 human rights complaints against female estheticians in Canada for refusing to wax his male genitals, as covered this summer by The Daily Wire.

On Tuesday, the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, which is representing five of the women being targeted by Yaniv, announced that the activist’s cases against their clients have been tossed by the BC Human Rights Tribunal. Moreover, Yaniv will be forced to pay $2,000 each to at least three of the women.

“The Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms (JCCF) is pleased to announce that the BC Human Rights Tribunal has ruled in favour of home estheticians’ right to refuse to handle male genitalia against their will,” a press release from JCCF said, as highlighted by The Post Millennial.

According to the group, the tribunal’s decision said that “human rights legislation does not require a service provider to wax a type of genitals they are not trained for and have not consented to wax.” Moreover, it was noted that Yaniv “engaged in improper conduct” and “filed complaints for improper purposes.” The activist’s testimony, according to the ruling, was “disingenuous and self-serving,” and Yaniv was “evasive and argumentative and contradicted herself.”

Yaniv filed complaints against 15 female and largely immigrant-owned businesses when he was turned away for a genital waxing for a variety of reasons, which included some of the businesses not being specialized in male genital waxing.

The complainant was seeking as much as $15,000 in damages against each esthetician, according to JCCF, and at least one of the women being targeted, a devout Sikh, was forced to close down her small at-home business due to the activist’s complaint.

“The Justice Centre represented Blue Heaven Beauty Lounge and its owner, Sandeep Banipal, who is an adherent to the Sikh religion. Ms. Banipal is not trained to wax male genitals, and as she explained in the response to the complaint against her, it ‘is not something I am comfortable with or trained to do,’” the JCCF press release outlined.

Sukhi Hehar Gill, also represented by JCCF, “was forced to close her business due to the complaint against her,” the release said. “Ms. Gill, also a practicing adherent of the Sikh faith, provided waxing services only to female clients, attending alone at her clients’ homes. She explained in her response to Yaniv’s complaint against her that it ‘is contrary to my faith’ to provide waxing services to a biological male. Yaniv had requested that Gill attend at Yaniv’s personal residence to provide arm and leg waxing services.”

Yaniv, at order by the tribunal, must now pay out $2,000 to Banipal, Gill, and other JCCF client, Marcia Da Silva.

“Self-identification does not erase physiological reality,” said Jay Cameron, JCCF Litigation Manager and counsel for the estheticians. “Our clients do not offer the service requested. No woman should be compelled to touch male genitals against her will, irrespective of how the owner of the genitals identifies.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/transgender-activist-loses-cases-against-female-estheticians-who-refused-to-wax-male-genitals

[Cherie]

Great news :clap1:

[Livia]

Self-identification does not erase physiological reality. Ain't that the truth. best news I've heard for a while.