USA : Multiple fatalities' in Texas mall shooting

[arista]

[Multiple people have been killed in an attack at a
shopping centre in El Paso in Texas, police and a mayor's aide have said.
One person is in custody after the shooter went on a rampage
on Saturday at the Cielo Vista Mall.
Police Sgt. Enrique Carrillo told MSNBC that there were "multiple fatalities" and that officers
were "searching multiple scenes, primarily the Walmart".]


https://news.sky.com/story/el-paso-multiple-shooters-at-texas-shopping-centre-police-11776933


1157706487751299073

[Jigs]

Colour me unsurprised

[Tom4784]

Another inevitable Caucasian shooter with extreme right wing material in his devices no doubt. Politicians will send their worthless prayers yet nothing will ever change and they won't be brave enough to call out this shooter for what he'll inevitably turn out to be, a terrorist.

[JerseyWins]

1157743510994456576

Daaamn that would be terrifying

[Liam-]

Jfc, it’s never going to end is it?

I wonder what excuses are going to be made by Republicans this time

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jfc, it’s never going to end is it?

I wonder what excuses are going to be made by Republicans this time

Political preducice before the bodies are cold?

Classy

[MB.]

Political preducice before the bodies are cold?

Classy

Mass shootings will continue to happen for as long as the Republican Party are funded by the NRA, so I think it's perfectly suitable conclusion to draw if the US wants to stop its citizens getting needlessly slaughtered every other day

[Crimson Dynamo]

Mass shootings will continue to happen for as long as the Republican Party are funded by the NRA, so I think it's perfectly suitable conclusion to draw if the US wants to stop its citizens getting needlessly slaughtered every other day

That i
s just your own preducice opinion, not fact

[MB.]

Another inevitable Caucasian shooter with extreme right wing material in his devices no doubt. Politicians will send their worthless prayers yet nothing will ever change and they won't be brave enough to call out this shooter for what he'll inevitably turn out to be, a terrorist.

BBC News are reporting that a white man in his 20s is in custody, so yep

Much as the responses were to the Pittsburgh, Poway and Gilroy shootings, I imagine as many steps will be taken to tackle domestic terrorism as they will to introduce gun reform (i.e. zero)

[MB.]

That i
s just your own preducice opinion, not fact

Or you could read up on the subject and stop being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/nra-political-money-clout/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/16/florida-school-shooting-focus-shifts-to-nra-gun-lobby-cash-to-lawmakers
https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-political-contributions-congressional-candidates-house-senate-2018-2?r=US&IR=T
https://qz.com/1214787/how-the-nras-money-forces-republicans-to-fight-gun-control/
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/the-nra-spent-dollar30-million-to-elect-trump-was-it-russian-money

But yes, I do apologise for being prejudiced against people getting killed

[Marsh.]

Political preducice before the bodies are cold?

Classy

There'll be another shooting before these bodies are cold. THAT is the problem.

[arista]

They were dressed in black clothes
reports say.

[Liam-]

Political preducice before the bodies are cold?

Classy

1157762861763948544

There is a problem, something needs to be done, if your first response is about someone else’s opinion on the matter rather than the nearly two dozen people that have just been slaughtered, then there’s something seriously wrong.

It’s down to the people in charge to change things, they need to be held accountable when they refuse to try and people ****ing die as a result.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Or you could read up on the subject and stop being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/nra-political-money-clout/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/16/florida-school-shooting-focus-shifts-to-nra-gun-lobby-cash-to-lawmakers
https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-political-contributions-congressional-candidates-house-senate-2018-2?r=US&IR=T
https://qz.com/1214787/how-the-nras-money-forces-republicans-to-fight-gun-control/
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/the-nra-spent-dollar30-million-to-elect-trump-was-it-russian-money

But yes, I do apologise for being prejudiced against people getting killed

What has random shootings got to do with half of the American electorate?

Let's see your working s

[Crimson Dynamo]

1157762861763948544

There is a problem, something needs to be done, if your first response is about someone else’s opinion on the matter rather than the nearly two dozen people that have just been slaughtered, then there’s something seriously wrong.

It’s down to the people in charge to change things, they need to held accountable when they refuse to try and people ****ing die as a response.
Which president cstopped shootings like this?

[MB.]

What has random shootings got to do with half of the American electorate?

Let's see your working s

Er, the NRA are lobbying Republican representatives (I'm not sure why you decided to bring up "half of the American electorate" when you know full well that this is about the politicians involved) to impede attempted gun control bills - the House only passed the first major gun control legislation in a quarter of a century in February, and that's because the House is controlled by the Democrats, who the NRA fund attack ads against and have done for decades

[Liam-]

Which president cstopped shootings like this?

Well clearly none of them? What a stupid question.

Prime Ministers however, John Howard changed gun laws in Australia after a mass shooting and guess how many they’ve had since? None, so it’s not impossible, nothing will change in America until the powers that be decide to pull their finger out and stop taking the knee for the NRA, their thoughts and prayers are meaningless until they take steps to rectify the problem.

[Twosugars]

Why did he travel to el paso, a border town?
Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bears an ugly fruit?

[Tom4784]

That i
s just your own preducice opinion, not fact

Pointing out that someone's opinion is indeed an opinion is not an argument, it just shows you continue to struggle to tell the difference between facts and opinions because MB wasn't presenting his opinions as a fact, he was using established facts (NRA DOES fund a lot of republicans) to explain his views that things won't change until the NRA has less of a hold on US politics.

You either can't tell the difference between facts or opinions or you are purposely misrepresenting what people are saying because you lack the ability to actually argue a point. All you can do is point out the obvious, 'Well your opinion in this discussion is OBVIOUSLY an opinion so... :shrug:'

Utterly pointless response.

[Tom4784]

Political preducice before the bodies are cold?

Classy

Also LT, do not clutch your pearls and pretend to be outraged and take the moral high ground when you are continually either silent or dismissive of the abuses going on at the US border.

[MB.]

Why did he travel to el paso, a border town?
Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bears an ugly fruit?

1157728874513367040

(this isn't confirmed yet though)

The Gilroy shooter also promoted white supremacist books on 8Chan and said he wanted to kill "hordes of mestizos", and this isn't even taking into account the recent major synagogue shootings, so anyone who refuses to see a pattern here is wilfully blind

[MB.]

I'm going to San Diego in a couple of weeks and I'd be lying if I said I was feeling entirely comfortable about it

[Liam-]

Bill Clinton banned assault weapons in 1994 and mass shooting deaths dropped by 43%, the republicans allowed the ban to run out in 2004 and they rose by over 200%, they’ve done it before then can and should do it again, America right now values guns more than the lives of innocent people, how many more need to die before something is done? Why wasn’t Columbine enough? Why wasn’t Sandy Hook enough?

[arista]

Why did he travel to el paso, a border town?
Trump's anti immigration rhetoric bears an ugly fruit?


A Walmart
with low security

[arista]

1157780153629585408

[Alf]

Tragic!


A hoax caller called in to one of the news station's claiming to be a witness, and started giving an account of what happened and what the shooter was saying, and he was getting interviewed live on air for about 5 minutes. And then out of nowhere he called the news anchor a "Dumb Fcuk"

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBFKYnBXsAAt7gf?format=jpg&name=360x360
The Evil Killer

[arista]

1157780153629585408


Great Reporting Andrew


The Governor of Texas has stated sadly 20 are dead.

[Twosugars]

A Walmart
with low security

Why 10 hours away in a border town, arista?!

[Twosugars]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBFKYnBXsAAt7gf?format=jpg&name=360x360
The Evil Killer


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBFKYm-WsAATZOI?format=jpg&name=small
The weapons he posted on facebook

I...

Is this confirmed?

[arista]

I...

Is this confirmed?


Yes Posted by a ITV Producer
on Twitter

[MB.]

That photo of the guns spelling out Trump has been around for years, it doesn't originate from this shooting

[arista]

1157759240246722560

[Twosugars]

1157728874513367040

(this isn't confirmed yet though)

The Gilroy shooter also promoted white supremacist books on 8Chan and said he wanted to kill "hordes of mestizos", and this isn't even taking into account the recent major synagogue shootings, so anyone who refuses to see a pattern here is wilfully blind

Wilfully blind or morally complicit, MB. I fear it's mostly the latter

[Twosugars]

1157759240246722560

Morgan can **** off and ask his mate donnie how he feels about it all

[MB.]

Even aside from simple gun control, there are three steps that should be taken by the US immediately (and that evidently won't be):

- close down 8chan
- launch a federal investigation into the NRA's lobbying of members of Congress
- declare a national emergency over domestic terrorism and neo-Nazism

But we all know that the usual suspects will twiddle their thumbs, tweet "thoughts and prayers!" and at most appear briefly willing to discuss tackling mental health issues

[arista]

that photo of the guns spelling out trump has been around for years, it doesn't originate from this shooting


1157776596587155456

[Twosugars]

Even aside from simple gun control, there are three steps that should be taken by the US immediately (and that evidently won't be):

- close down 8chan
- launch a federal investigation into the NRA's lobbying of members of Congress
- declare a national emergency over domestic terrorism and neo-Nazism

But we all know that the usual suspects will twiddle their thumbs, tweet "thoughts and prayers!" and at most appear briefly willing to discuss tackling mental health issues

Not with this administration led by that orange abomination.
If it turns out to be what we think it is, he will have blood on his tiny orange hands

[MB.]

1157776596587155456

As I said, that image has been floating around as long as Trump's been in charge (usually by right-wingers accompanied by a message in the vein of "share to piss off some liberals"), so whoever attributed it to this particular killer is just creating unnecessary disinformation

[arista]

As I said, that image has been floating around as long as Trump's been in charge (usually by right-wingers accompanied by a message in the vein of "share to piss off some liberals"), so whoever attributed it to this particular killer is just creating unnecessary disinformation


Yes appears so.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1157814253757145088/FaIvQNPo?format=jpg&name=small
The Police talked to the Evil killer
to lay down his weapons.
He is now at the Police Station.

[Ninastar]

This is ****ing tragic. He shot kids... like wtf

I agree we need more action on gun control... but there’s so many hundreds Of thousands of guns that it would take so long to get under control

[Ninastar]

This is ****ing tragic. He shot kids... like wtf

I agree we need more action on gun control... but there’s so many hundreds Of thousands of guns that it would take so long to get under control

[thesheriff443]

The right to us guns is in the American bible, the constitution.

People in suits with pens kill more then all gun crime.

[Ammi]

...horrendous...:sad:...it’s also being looked at as a domestic terrorist incident ...how can someone so young as he is, have so much hate established inside him/inside his heart...and then be so easily armed...the terror of those people as they scrambled to hide...and waited...it’s inconceivable...:sad:..

[Ammi]

...so he builds a wall but fills the hands of hate with weapons...it’s just inconceivable ...

[Cherie]

so much hate, and that you can legally own such a powerful weapon is pretty insane

[Twosugars]

Donald Trump’s anti-migrant rhetoric has stoked racism in the United States and led directly to increased violence such as the mass shooting in El Paso on Saturday that left at least 20 people dead, according to Democratic presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke.


The Guardian


Telling it as it is, Beto

[Alf]

Any news on a manifesto?

I've heard rumours there is one, but they just might be rumours and nothing more.

[Twosugars]

There is, four pages of it, confirmed during press conference
Possible nexus of a hate crime, is all they're saying for now

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Guardian


Telling it as it is, Beto

according to Democratic....

isnt it lovely how cheap death can be when you are climbing the greasy pole...


:skull:

[Twosugars]

according to Democratic....

isnt it lovely how cheap death can be when you are climbing the greasy pole...


:skull:

He used to represent el paso, has every reason to speak

The connection he's made is clear, but you carry on your moral gymnastics
I'm past being appalled and now just find it mildly entertaining

[Crimson Dynamo]

He used to represent el paso, has every reason to speak

The connection he's made is clear, but you carry on your moral gymnastics
I'm past being appalled and now just find it mildly entertaining

its not clear its just politics and its not nice

[Twosugars]

its not clear its just politics and its not nice

Thers no clear confirmation officially
Though he may know more

I had my suspicions as soon as I heard the killer traveled over 9 hours to get to el paso, a border town...I mean why would he do that?

Care to share some wild theories LT? Go on, blue sky thinking time :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thers no clear confirmation officially
Though he may know more

I had my suspicions as soon as I heard the killer traveled over 9 hours to get to el paso, a border town...I mean why would he do that?

Care to share some wild theories LT? Go on, blue sky thinking time :hee:

no, a mad lone-wolf gunman is not driven by logic but the huge problem with immigrants and drugs I suspect could be at the root. we shall never know:shrug:

[Twosugars]

no, a mad lone-wolf gunman is not driven by logic but the huge problem with immigrants and drugs I suspect could be at the root. we shall never know:shrug:
Time will tell what or who his inspiration was....

[arista]

Time will tell what or who his inspiration was....



Yes he wrote he hated Hispanics
and the Evil Fella had to have ear muffs
to protect his ears from the shooting

[Tom4784]

according to Democratic....

isnt it lovely how cheap death can be when you are climbing the greasy pole...


:skull:

Can you take the moral high ground like that given your arguments in this thread that downplayed the violence of these shootings and made out that drug deaths are somehow worse like tragedy is a competition?

Self awareness is important, LT.

[Tom4784]

This terrorist's motivations will be the same as the other two terrorists that comitted mass shootings this week, right wing extremism.

When was the last time a mass shooting in America wasn't committed by a young, white male that just so happened to be a right wing extremist? The Pulse shooting in 2016 perhaps?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Can you take the moral high ground like that given your arguments in this thread that downplayed the violence of these shootings and made out that drug deaths are somehow worse like tragedy is a competition?

Self awareness is important, LT.

that does not make sense, sorry

[bots]

We can wring our hands for ever, but America chose this path right from it's inception. They keep saying how clever they were to organise their democracy as it is, well, now they have to live with it.

[Tom4784]

that does not make sense, sorry

Saying something doesn't make sense when it does to avoid answering it doesn't work, LT.

You downplayed these deaths because they were most likely a result of right wing extremism and tried to divert attention to drug deaths and then you have the gall to say someone else is using this to their advantage when you tried to brush this story under the rug earlier in the topic.

You can't pull the moral high ground card with me, LT. I will take out the receipts every time.

[arista]

Beto O'Rouke Live on CNN HD now
is blaming Trump.
He just called Trump a White Nationalist.


He is Electioneering,



Soft Targets are easy to kill with a Deadly Machine Gun

[Tom4784]

Trump doubles down on extreme right wing rhetoric and there just so happens to be an extreme spike in mass shootings of an extreme right wing persuasion?

It's no coincidence. Trump enables these ***** and you can bet he won't condemn these shooters in the same way he'd condemn an islamic terrorist, he won't even refer to these terrorists as such because they are white and he only wants people to fear people with brown skin.

[Twosugars]

Beto O'Rouke Live on CNN HD now
is blaming Trump.
He just called Trump a White Nationalist.


He is Electioneering,



Soft Targets are easy to kill with a Deadly Machine Gun

He is saying the truth.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Saying something doesn't make sense when it does to avoid answering it doesn't work, LT.

You downplayed these deaths because they were most likely a result of right wing extremism and tried to divert attention to drug deaths and then you have the gall to say someone else is using this to their advantage when you tried to brush this story under the rug earlier in the topic.

You can't pull the moral high ground card with me, LT. I will take out the receipts every time.

no your writing was incoherent, that is an issue that you have to address. I just reminded MB who was being sensationalist to drive home a political agenda that his acertation was incorrect and the USA faces a much more dangerous threat that kills 55 people a day. (every day)

i have no idea what receipts means in relation to that fact unless you are agreeing, in which case yes well i should think so

[Crimson Dynamo]

He is saying the truth.

no its just he backs up your world-view

that is not the same

[Twosugars]

Trump spreads hate against immigrants, the killer travels to el paso to kill immigrants

Blood on the tiny orange hands of the racist and white supremacist in the white house

[Tom4784]

no your writing was incoherent, that is an issue that you have to address. I just reminded MB who was being sensationalist to drive home a political agenda that his acertation was incorrect and the USA faces a much more dangerous threat that kills 55 people a day. (every day)

i have no idea what receipts means in relation to that fact unless you are agreeing, in which case yes well i should think so

You shouldn't call people's posts incoherent if your reading comprehension is elementary at best, remember how often we have to go over the differences between an opinion and a fact with you because you struggle to tell the difference? Don't make out I'm incoherent because you don't have any argument to make against what I'm saying.

MB also mentioned the difference between people dying to their own addictions and a gunman going out and killing multiple people and you ignored that because it was something you couldn't argue against. When you've lost an argument you choose to ignore the response and look for something to give you an edge. It's predictable at this point.

You can only offer help to people who are self destructing due to drug issues and hope they'll take it but you certainly can prevent a gunman from murdering people who want to live. To compare the two situations is ultimately dumb.

[arista]

He is saying the truth.


Bernie Saunders is now Live on CNN HD.

At least he said
Trump does not want this.

[JerseyWins]

9 killed, 16 injured in another mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio today (well around 1:00 AM last night I think)

I- :skull:

[Twosugars]

Bernie Saunders is now Live on CNN HD.

At least he said
Trump does not want this.

Bet he doesn't bc it makes him look like a murderer

[Twosugars]

9 killed, 16 injured in another mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio today (well around 1:00 AM last night I think)

I- :skull:

There's a thread already Jersey

What do you make of this?

[bots]

People won't like it, but there is a big difference between saying there is an immigration problem at the border and then someone going out and shooting people. Trump doesn't help the situation, but he didn't make someone drive 600 miles to shoot people.

People do need to understand that it's possible to hold an acceptable political view against immigration without it being seen as support and encouragement for shooting people

[Tom4784]

People won't like it, but there is a big difference between saying there is an immigration problem at the border and then someone going out and shooting people. Trump doesn't help the situation, but he didn't make someone drive 600 miles to shoot people.

People do need to understand that it's possible to hold an acceptable political view against immigration without it being seen as support and encouragement for shooting people

The rate of hate crimes and incidents of this nature has spiked since 2016. The rhetoric that Trump often spouts is dangerous because people will listen and use his words for justification. Leaders need to speak carefully and Trump just says whatever comes to mind.

The spike in right wing terrorism incidents has everything to do with the political climate and the toxicity coming from the top.

[Twosugars]

The rate of hate crimes and incidents of this nature has spiked since 2016. The rhetoric that Trump often spouts is dangerous because people will listen and use his words for justification. Leaders need to speak carefully and Trump just says whatever comes to mind.

The spike in right wing terrorism incidents has everything to do with the political climate and the toxicity coming from the top.

Exactly that.
You can make a case for controlled immigration in calm and measured words.
The orange one is not interested in that though.

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/zTKaYhp9PUR-eAQdd_rYUg/https/media.fyre.co/xFhHSzVqQ4KM1SHqJXts_i.JPG

[Twosugars]

On ITV news tonight they showed a clip from trumps texas rally in 2016.
He was ranting about illegal immigrants and asked: "what are we going to do with these people?" Someone from the audience shouted " shoot them" , trump paused and smiled " only in the panhandle you can get away with this sir"

American president, ladies and gents....

[arista]

On ITV news tonight they showed a clip from trumps texas rally in 2016.
He was ranting about illegal immigrants and asked: "what are we going to do with these people?" Someone from the audience shouted " shoot them" , trump paused and smiled " only in the panhandle you can get away with this sir"

American president, ladies and gents....



This Evil Killer
was against Mexicans long before
Trump became President.

[Denver]

This Evil Killer
was against Mexicans long before
Trump became President.
So was Trump

[Kizzy]

For those who deny these shootings have far right links.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/05/cloudflare-8chan-matthew-prince-terminate-service-cuts-off-far-right-message-board-el-paso-shooting

[Ammi]

On ITV news tonight they showed a clip from trumps texas rally in 2016.
He was ranting about illegal immigrants and asked: "what are we going to do with these people?" Someone from the audience shouted " shoot them" , trump paused and smiled " only in the panhandle you can get away with this sir"

American president, ladies and gents....

...I watched it...this is where he holds weight and responsibility as the President of the USA....Trump can’t be blamed for the hate in the hearts of people, that hate has been festering for a long time but no one should be able to look at the President of the USA and say ...your words feed into all of those prejudices...in that same rally he used phrases like ‘they marched’...a phrase that is designed to infer an ‘attack’....we need to protect our country from the attack from Mexico with this wall...?...it’s inciteful, it’s inciteful of prejudice and hate ...and he knows exactly what he’s doing...

[Kazanne]

I don't think it's fair to blame Trump for these shootings, but I can see its nectar to his haters, the problem lies much deeper than him, how about blaming the person who purchased that gun, and chose to kill people, there will always be people with a warped mindset, Trump has said he will do something so hopefully he will do something about gun control,but it won't be easy as America has always had a gun problem,

[DouglasS]

Ah my brother and his wife live not far from there at all

[Ammi]

..it’s absolutely fair to be terrified that the leader of the free world’s action and reaction is to smile and joke when someone calls out...’shoot them’....he cannot endorse such prejudice and remain blameless...

[Kizzy]

Great posts Ammi, nobody is suggesting that trumps finger was on the trigger obviously. But theres something to be said about his use of language, the scapegoating, the pointed rhetoric that play right to people who commit these acts ...it's fuel for the fire of a warped mindset.
Provocative language as we've heard from trump absolutely causes a reaction in those malcontents.
To critique his actions as supposed leader of the free world is perfectly valid.
The NRA is very powerful Trump has had opportunity to issue controls due to previous shootings, if he does anything about these I will be very surprised.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't think it's fair to blame Trump for these shootings, but I can see its nectar to his haters, the problem lies much deeper than him, how about blaming the person who purchased that gun, and chose to kill people, there will always be people with a warped mindset, Trump has said he will do something so hopefully he will do something about gun control,but it won't be easy as America has always had a gun problem,

When random uncontrollable things occur people like to blame something as it gives them a sense of control. Some odious democrats are using this tragedy to score futile political points. Its sad but somewhat inevitable.

[Kazanne]

When random uncontrollable things occur people like to blame something as it gives them a sense of control. Some odious democrats are using this tragedy to score futile political points. Its sad but somewhat inevitable.

That's true LT, take Trump 'smiling' for example it can be seen as his natural look of his face ,he seems to me to always have that smile,or it can be spun as something more sinister as people don't like him,not everything is black and white, there are people that I don't like,do I go out and shoot them? no,it's just the mindset of rare individuals,lets hope Trump will deal with it as he has said,gun control might be a good start

[Nicky91]

That's true LT, take Trump 'smiling' for example it can be seen as his natural look of his face ,he seems to me to always have that smile,or it can be spun as something more sinister as people don't like him,not everything is black and white, there are people that I don't like,do I go out and shoot them? no,it's just the mindset of rare individuals,lets hope Trump will deal with it as he has said,gun control might be a good start

yes putting the guns out of those trump supporter hands would be a good start

cause it's too coincidental the victims of this Texas shooting being mexicans, Trump and his loyal support hating mexicans

but knowing Trump he won't do such thing :bored:

[Ammi]

...he actually refers to the reason why he’s smiling...’only in the panhandle can you get away with that statement’...he finds the comment and his joke in response so amusing, he repeats it...just in case those in the back didn’t hear him...I mean really, there is somewhere in the USA where saying ‘shoot them’ is acceptable..because that’s apparently so according to the rule book of the USA president...as he accidentally smiles at how amusing it all is, the prejudice aligning itself to his words...

[Kizzy]

When random uncontrollable things occur people like to blame something as it gives them a sense of control. Some odious democrats are using this tragedy to score futile political points. Its sad but somewhat inevitable.

OR. ... they are pointing out the very real risk posed when there is someone high profile making light of someone shouting 'shoot them' at a rally.

These shootings are not random, they are planned targetted terrorist attacks.

[Crimson Dynamo]

yes putting the guns out of those trump supporter hands would be a good start

cause it's too coincidental the victims of this Texas shooting being mexicans, Trump and his loyal support hating mexicans

but knowing Trump he won't do such thing :bored:

WHat if most Americans dont want to give up their guns tho Nicky. Mind you he could at least start by getting rid of Assault Rifles :umm2:

[Nicky91]

OR. ... they are pointing out the very real risk posed when there is someone high profile making light of someone shouting 'shoot them' at a rally.

These shootings are not random, they are planned targetted terrorist attacks.

correct, and didn't this killer here in Texas say he sympathizes with that one shooter from Christchurch

so it's also a planned hate crime then, since specifically targets are mexicans in this shooting

[Crimson Dynamo]

OR. ... they are pointing out the very real risk posed when there is someone high profile making light of someone shouting 'shoot them' at a rally.

These shootings are not random, they are planned targetted terrorist attacks.

this guy got suspended from school for putting up a hit list of girls he wanted to kill. Trump has nothing to do with this lone nut job.

[bots]

If mass shootings had started happening when Trump came to power, some connection could be drawn, but as much as people want to blame Trump (and I don't like the guy) mass shootings have been happening for decades. There have been over 200 mass shootings in America this year. It's in single digits, the number that are directed at mexicans. You need to look at the spread of events and the targets over all .... and the simple fact is there are too many other things involved to pin the blame on Trump.

The other mass shooting that happened at the night club, the guy shot his sister. I mean, please tell me how that can be blamed on Trump

[Kizzy]

this guy got suspended from school for putting up a hit list of girls he wanted to kill. Trump has nothing to do with this lone nut job.

Well his attention was switched to the 'invasion of Hispanics in Texas' as described in his 8chan explanation of his intention, what could have caused that switch?...


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/03/el-paso-shooting-21-year-old-suspect-in-custody-as-officials-investigate-possible-hate

[Kazanne]

yes putting the guns out of those trump supporter hands would be a good start

cause it's too coincidental the victims of this Texas shooting being mexicans, Trump and his loyal support hating mexicans

but knowing Trump he won't do such thing :bored:

You don't know Trump :shrug: he might surprise you

[Kazanne]

If mass shootings had started happening when Trump came to power, some connection could be drawn, but as much as people want to blame Trump (and I don't like the guy) mass shootings have been happening for decades. There have been over 200 mass shootings in America this year. It's in single digits, the number that are directed at mexicans. You need to look at the spread of events and the targets over all .... and the simple fact is there are too many other things involved to pin the blame on Trump.

The other mass shooting that happened at the night club, the guy shot his sister. I mean, please tell me how that can be blamed on Trump

:clap1::clap1:Great and unbiased post bots, you don't have to be a Trump 'fan' to see its ridiculous to blame him.

[Liam-]

Nobody is blaming Trump for all mass shootings, that would be ridiculous, but when a manifesto of a far-right nut job comes out where he uses some of the exact phrases that Trump has used at rallies, then you have to admit that there’s a damaging, unavoidable link there, the President of the United States is purposely using rhetoric to stir up his base, which without question has a lot of racists in it and some of his rhetoric is getting through to people that will run with it to justify their lunacy and their actions, whether it be assault, general bigotry or mass murder, it’s a definite problem

[Nicky91]

:clap1::clap1:Great and unbiased post bots, you don't have to be a Trump 'fan' to see its ridiculous to blame him.

yes i know there were also mass shootings before trump's presidency

the columbine school shooting for example

[Ammi]

Nobody is blaming Trump for all mass shootings, that would be ridiculous, but when a manifesto of a far-right nut job comes out where he uses some of the exact phrases that Trump has used at rallies, then you have to admit that there’s a damaging, unavoidable link there, the President of the United States is purposely using rhetoric to stir up his base, which without question has a lot of racists in it and some of his rhetoric is getting through to people that will run without to justify their lunacy, it’s a definite problem

...Sadie Kahn can’t control his Londonstan and is ‘creating a terror state’...apparently and allegedly, with no incite full language being used...meanwhile back in America, mental illness is the cause so all incite full language is acceptable ../...excusable or overlook-able...

[bots]

The American constitution is directly responsible for enabling mass shooters. If the right to bear arms were not written in to the constitution, then people would not be able to do the shootings. No president from whatever political side has shown any intention of fixing that.

[Ammi]

...there is a vast chasm between ‘contributing to’ and ‘being able to prevent’...I don’t recall a president who has used condoning language of prejudice in the way the current President does...and that cannot and should not be overlooked or pushed aside....

[Kizzy]

If mass shootings had started happening when Trump came to power, some connection could be drawn, but as much as people want to blame Trump (and I don't like the guy) mass shootings have been happening for decades. There have been over 200 mass shootings in America this year. It's in single digits, the number that are directed at mexicans. You need to look at the spread of events and the targets over all .... and the simple fact is there are too many other things involved to pin the blame on Trump.

The other mass shooting that happened at the night club, the guy shot his sister. I mean, please tell me how that can be blamed on Trump

Try maintaining a bit of perspective nobody is suggesting that trumps responsible for every shooting ever.
It is specifically the targetted attacks in reference to incitement by Trump and his policies.
In the space of one week there were 2 attacks, (the garlic festival and El paso) in which the killers themselves referenced wording that could have come direct from a trump rally, this quote is part if the july 28th garlic festival killers monologue prior to the attack 'hordes of*mestizos'...
Now you would have to be really blinkered to not see the correlation here...

'

[Crimson Dynamo]

Now you would have to be really blinkered to not see the correlation here...

'

I dont think that type of post really helps in SD :shrug:


can you just make a point without oblique insults?

[bots]

...there is a vast chasm between ‘contributing to’ and ‘being able to prevent’...I don’t recall a president who has used condoning language of prejudice in the way the current President does...and that cannot and should not be overlooked or pushed aside....

i wouldn't dispute that, but some politician saying something does not in itself turn someone into a killer. There isn't a direct link because someone has to want to go out and kill people to start with, and that person would equally likely start killing because someone didn't look at him right or was wearing the wrong shirt or whatever.

People want to pin responsibility on things when the person doing the killing was just looking for any old excuse to do what they had always wanted to do.

[Liam-]

The American constitution is directly responsible for enabling mass shooters. If the right to bear arms were not written in to the constitution, then people would not be able to do the shootings. No president from whatever political side has shown any intention of fixing that.

Again, it’s not about amending the constitution, banning military grade weapons wouldn’t encroach on the 2nd amendment, neither would putting extensive gun control laws into place, Canada has a high number of guns, but very laws, training, full background checks, guns have to stay locked up when not in use and they’ve only had 12 mass shootings in about 15 years, gun control does work and it’s about time the GOP saw that

[Ammi]

i wouldn't dispute that, but some politician saying something does not in itself turn someone into a killer. There isn't a direct link because someone has to want to go out and kill people to start with, and that person would equally likely start killing because someone didn't look at him right or was wearing the wrong shirt or whatever.

People want to pin responsibility on things when the person doing the killing was just looking for any old excuse to do what they had always wanted to do.

...we don’t know what ‘triggers’ though, do we...we don’t know if it’s an inevitability that would happen anyway, or not...and we definitely don’t know whether it would be the same time../..the same place etc...or if there are factors...’influences’ that would dictate that...the trigger mechanism, as it were...maybe people go through their whole lives with the ‘potential to but not meeting the trigger’...?...who knows, we don’t for sure, bots...but what we do know and equally for sure...if the president did not show both irresponsibility and prejudice in his words then none of us would be having this conversation in terms of the provocative nature of too many of his ‘speeches’...

[Liam-]

And actually, in respect of the El Paso shooting, his manifesto clearly states that he only decided to do what he did when he read ‘the great replacement’ a far-right conspiracy theory book about immigrants and decided it was the truth and tgat he had to do something about it, so stating that people can’t be ‘swayed’ by something isn’t true at all.

Add in President Loco’s rhetoric about an ‘invasion’ and ‘infestation’ of criminals and bad brown people, easily accessible weapons of war and you’ve got yourself a radicalised far right demosetic terrorist

[Crimson Dynamo]

And actually, in respect of the El Paso shooting, his manifesto clearly states that he only decided to do what he did when he read ‘the great replacement’ a far-right conspiracy theory book about immigrants and decided it was the truth and tgat he had to do something about it, so stating that people can’t be ‘swayed’ by something isn’t true at all.

Add in President Loco’s rhetoric about an ‘invasion’ and ‘infestation’ of criminals and bad brown people, easily accessible weapons of war and you’ve got yourself a radicalised far right demosetic terrorist

or you could look at the immigration problem and previous presidents in ability to deal with it and say that perhaps this was the inevitable consequence of that

[Liam-]

or you could look at the immigration problem and previous presidents in ability to deal with it and say that perhaps this was the inevitable consequence of that

Yeah, it’s definitely because of that, not because the current president and his people are telling people that the nasty immigrants are going to murder them and rape their kids, totally

[Kizzy]

i wouldn't dispute that, but Some politician saying something does not in itself turn someone into a killer. There isn't a direct link because someone has to want to go out and kill people to start with, and that person would equally likely start killing because someone didn't look at him right or was wearing the wrong shirt or whatever.

People want to pin responsibility on things when the person doing the killing was just looking for any old excuse to do what they had always wanted to do.

So what is indoctrination about? What is incitement? ... what is radicalisation?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah, it’s definitely because of that, not because the current president and his people are telling people that the nasty immigrants are going to murder them and rape their kids, totally

id imagine what is going on around in in his life is far more influential. How many young people his age do you know are influenced, care, or listen to Boris Johnson?


(probably none)

[Kizzy]

Again, it’s not about amending the constitution, banning military grade weapons wouldn’t encroach on the 2nd amendment, neither would putting extensive gun control laws into place, Canada has a high number of guns, but very laws, training, full background checks, guns have to stay locked up when not in use and they’ve only had 12 mass shootings in about 15 years, gun control does work and it’s about time the GOP saw that
Great point Liam :clap1:

[Kizzy]

id imagine what is going on around in in his life is far more influential. How many young people his age do you know are influenced, care, or listen to Boris Johnson?


(probably none)

State the obvious day...socialisation shapes young people there are many factors parents, educators, peers or media.
Young people Are interested in politics he was 21, it's insulting to suggest at that age you don't listen to politicians, which is why we should be able to trust them not to be sowing seeds of hate and division. .. but both here and in the US unfortunately we can't.

[Crimson Dynamo]

State the obvious day...socialisation shapes young people there are many factors parents, educators, peers or media.
Young people Are interested in politics he was 21, it's insulting to suggest at that age you don't listen to politicians, which is why we should be able to trust them not to be sowing seeds of hate and division. .. but both here and in the US unfortunately we can't.

"there are many factors parents, educators, peers or media"

indeed and politicians come way down that list.

[bots]

"there are many factors parents, educators, peers or media"

indeed and politicians come way down that list.

Yeah, to me it just reflects an ever more sick society and its not just america, it's across the world.

It's in peoples dna to try and associate blame to something that they dislike. Trump is a very polarising figure, there is no disputing that, but there are far more fundamental issues at play here than Trump

[Ammi]

...most Presidents are not on the list at all...only those who verbalise their prejudice so provocatively and who laugh at and joke about comments of violence ...(...and murder...ho, ho, ho...shoot ‘em...)...

[Crimson Dynamo]

...most Presidents are not on the list at all...only those who verbalise their prejudice so provocatively and who laugh at and joke about comments of violence ...(...and murder...ho, ho, ho...shoot ‘em...)...

i think you need some context as comments in isolation dont add much to any debate, in fact they often escalate violence

[Kizzy]

"there are many factors parents, educators, peers or media"

indeed and politicians come way down that list.

Parents are influenced by politicians and they in turn influence young people.
I did mention media too.

I don't get what's so hard to understand here...
If the politicians spew hate via the media and parents regurgitated said hate then young people may become quite disaffected. . It's not a radical theory, it's very basic socialisation.

What a bizarre notion that politicians just talk and don't influence anyone when that's basically their job! :/

And secondly an equally odd suggestion that mass killers just kill people.. no influence required, they just wake up one day and think ' oh I'm going to blow some heads off today'...pffft.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Parents are influenced by politicians and they in turn influence young people.
I did mention media too.

I don't get what's so hard to understand here...
If the politicians spew hate via the media and parents regurgitated said hate then young people may become quite disaffected. . It's not a radical theory, it's very basic socialisation.

What a bizarre notion that politicians just talk and don't influence anyone when that's basically their job! :/

And secondly an equally odd suggestion that mass killers just kill people.. no influence required, they just wake up one day and think ' oh I'm going to blow some heads off today'...pffft.

what if his parents were democrats?

[Kizzy]

what if his parents were democrats?

Who knows?
This conversation is over... I've made my point you can waffle on to someone else now.

[bots]

Tony Blair was responsible for many more innocent deaths due to his religious fanaticism and rhetoric than Trump is .... let that sink in for a minute

[Crimson Dynamo]

Who knows?
This conversation is over... I've made my point you can waffle on to someone else now.

if the best you can do is pat yourself on the back and insult me then id suggest you should

:skull:

[Kizzy]

if the best you can do is pat yourself on the back and insult me then id suggest you should

:skull:

Ok

[Kizzy]

Tony Blair was responsible for many more innocent deaths due to his religious fanaticism and rhetoric than Trump is .... let that sink in for a minute

Let it sink in where? That was a lie, we were lied to there by those in power both here and in the US. It's nothing like the topic here ...Nothing. It's just pointless whataboutism.

[Crimson Dynamo]

onnor Betts, the Dayton, Ohio mass shooter, was a self-described “leftist,” who wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.”

Betts’ Twitter profile read, “he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / i’m going to hell and i’m not coming back.” One tweet on his page read, “Off to Midnight Mass. At least the songs are good. #athiestsonchristmas.” The page handle? I am the spookster. On one selfie, he included the hashtags, “#selfie4satan #HailSatan @SatanTweeting.” On the date of Republican Sen. John McCain’s death, he wrote, “***** John McCain.” He also liked tweets referencing the El Paso mass shooting in the hours before Dayton.

Twitter has now suspended the Twitter page, removing it. It was up for several hours after the mass shooting. (odd)

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/08/warren-iamthespookster-Screenshot-Twitter-677x1024.jpg


https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/08/iamthespookster-socialism-Screenshot-Twitter-717x1024.jpg

[Alf]

onnor Betts, the Dayton, Ohio mass shooter, was a self-described “leftist,” who wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.”

Betts’ Twitter profile read, “he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / i’m going to hell and i’m not coming back.” One tweet on his page read, “Off to Midnight Mass. At least the songs are good. #athiestsonchristmas.” The page handle? I am the spookster. On one selfie, he included the hashtags, “#selfie4satan #HailSatan @SatanTweeting.” On the date of Republican Sen. John McCain’s death, he wrote, “***** John McCain.” He also liked tweets referencing the El Paso mass shooting in the hours before Dayton.

Twitter has now suspended the Twitter page, removing it. It was up for several hours after the mass shooting. (odd)

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/08/warren-iamthespookster-Screenshot-Twitter-677x1024.jpg


https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/08/iamthespookster-socialism-Screenshot-Twitter-717x1024.jpgSomething tells me that this shooting will play second fiddle to the El Paso one in the media, if that's the case.

I'm fairly certain the main stream media won't put the blame for this mentally ill murderer at the hands of Warren, as they put the blame on Trump for the mentally ill murderer in El Paso.

[Twosugars]

The difference being Warren does not incite hatred while the orange abomination does. He's not fat, he's full of hate. And it is expelled through his mouth.

[Tom4784]

this guy got suspended from school for putting up a hit list of girls he wanted to kill. Trump has nothing to do with this lone nut job.

I'm so tired of people enabling terrorism by refusing to call it what it is. The guy is a terrorist, every right wing extremist that picks up a gun and shoots people for his ideals is a terrorist. His previous vile actions do not change the fact that he is a terrorist and he committed mass murder to create terror.

Trump has, time and time again, used extreme language and rhetoric and you only have to watch videos of the crowds at his events to see the effect that his words have on racists and extreme elements. It empowers them, it makes them feel validated. He is a leader and one with a cult-like following, when he tells people that mexican immigrants are racists, when he makes them out to be vermin or that the media is the enemy (not long after which, a US news channel was attacked btw), when he doubles down on racist attitudes and responds to criticism by hosting more rallies to incense his followers further he is telling them that their hatred is okay, they are taking his words as a call to action, as permission to commit atrocities.

Every other president and world leader as a whole knows to consider their words carefully, most leaders won't speak unless they know exactly what they are going to say and Trump is proof of why. A leader's words can inspire people to kill when they speak carelessly.

[Kizzy]

Ah ....so killers can be influenced by the left but not the right?
As I said earlier of course there are those who kill indiscriminatly.
That does not take away from the links the El paso and garlic festival killers had to right wing extremism as they expressed it themselves on 8chan prior to the attacks.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm so tired of people enabling terrorism by refusing to call it what it is. The guy is a terrorist, every right wing extremist that picks up a gun and shoots people for his ideals is a terrorist. His previous vile actions do not change the fact that he is a terrorist and he committed mass murder to create terror.

Trump has, time and time again, used extreme language and rhetoric and you only have to watch videos of the crowds at his events to see the effect that his words have on racists and extreme elements. It empowers them, it makes them feel validated. He is a leader and one with a cult-like following, when he tells people that mexican immigrants are racists, when he makes them out to be vermin or that the media is the enemy (not long after which, a US news channel was attacked btw), when he doubles down on racist attitudes and responds to criticism by hosting more rallies to incense his followers further he is telling them that their hatred is okay, they are taking his words as a call to action, as permission to commit atrocities.

Every other president and world leader as a whole knows to consider their words carefully, most leaders won't speak unless they know exactly what they are going to say and Trump is proof of why. A leader's words can inspire people to kill when they speak carelessly.

"Trump has, time and time again, used extreme language and rhetoric"

this from a poster who regularly, until called out, was posting that the US president was a child rapist so forgive me if i cant take you too seriously on that point above

[The Slim Reaper]

Shouldn't posts be about the subject and not other posters? Asking for a friend.

[Liam-]

Shouldn't posts be about the subject and not other posters? Asking for a friend.

You’d think so wouldn’t you? :think:

[Tom4784]

"Trump has, time and time again, used extreme language and rhetoric"

this from a poster who regularly, until called out, was posting that the US president was a child rapist so forgive me if i cant take you too seriously on that point above

Typical deflection and whataboutism

Trump is a rapist, he raped Ivana and he has a long friendship with Epstein and a long list of accusations against him including a sealed case from a child he raped, he himself has talked about grabbing women by their 'pussies'. He is an abuser yet you still love him and make excuses for him. It's gross. Now that your little diversion tactic has flopped, why don't you call a spade a spade and refer to these shooters for what they are, terrorists?

[Alf]

Typical deflection and whataboutism

Trump is a rapist, he raped Ivana and he has a long friendship with Epstein and a long list of accusations against him including a sealed case from a child he raped, he himself has talked about grabbing women by their 'pussies'. He is an abuser yet you still love him and make excuses for him. It's gross. Now that your little diversion tactic has flopped, why don't you call a spade a spade and refer to these shooters for what they are, terrorists?The outrage mob have spent the last 3 years making up stories to try and remove him, if there was any proof he was a rapist, they would have had him by now. The fact he's still president tells us they have nothing on him but made up bull.

[Tom4784]

Ah ....so killers can be influenced by the left but not the right?
As I said earlier of course there are those who kill indiscriminatly.
That does not take away from the links the El paso and garlic festival killers had to right wing extremism as they expressed it themselves on 8chan prior to the attacks.

It's typical right wing mentality.

If they even get a sniff that there's someone else to blame for one of these attacks they'll try to change the focus to that attack because obviously having two out of three mass shootings in the space of a week committed by a right wing terrorist doesn't matter if it's hinted the third isn't motivated by right wing extremism. Those two attacks don't matter because right wingers are typically incapable of being critical of anything relating to the right wing. I remember reading an article about a study earlier on in which the study found that if a republican spoke about climate change, other republicans would be inclined to believe it but would disbelieve the same message if it came from a democrat while democrats typically believe factual findings regardless of the source.

The right wing are largely incapable of policing itself and criticising the elements that need to be criticised while people on the left are more typically likely to hold other left leaning people responsible for their actions.

[Tom4784]

The outrage mob have spent the last 3 years making up stories to try and remove him, if there was any proof he was a rapist, they would have had him by now. The fact he's still president tells us they have nothing on him but made up bull.

How very naive and idealistic of you but sadly that's not how the real world works.

[Tom4784]

But then again, what does Trump being a rapist have to do with Trump's words inspring bloodshed? Typical deflection that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

It's completely callous considering what the subject is about.

[Alf]

Everything that doesn't suit your narrative is a typical deflection to you.

[The Slim Reaper]

The outrage mob have spent the last 3 years making up stories to try and remove him, if there was any proof he was a rapist, they would have had him by now. The fact he's still president tells us they have nothing on him but made up bull.

Is this really an argument you feel is valid? The child that claimed (credibly) she was raped by him, also said it was Trump and Epstein, and we now know that's been given even more credibility with recent news events regarding Epstein and Trumps private parties.

We can look closer to home with saville; power forces people into silence, and Trumps army of litigators can easily shut people down, as does the ability to pay people to stay quiet - which incidentally, he is currently an unindicted co-conspirator on a case where his partner is currently in prison for paying people to keep quiet.

If we learned anything from Mueller, it's that a sitting president can't be charged with a crime, so that argument falls away rather weakly when held up to any kind of scrutiny.

[Tom4784]

Everything that doesn't suit your narrative is a typical deflection to you.

Oooh I get it, you don't understand what deflection means.

By all means, carry on along with LT with your attempts to deflect criticism of Trump by driving this discussion off topic but the rest of us will stick to discussing the issue from now on.

[Alf]

Is this really an argument you feel is valid? The child that claimed (credibly) she was raped by him, also said it was Trump and Epstein, and we now know that's been given even more credibility with recent news events regarding Epstein and Trumps private parties.

We can look closer to home with saville; power forces people into silence, and Trumps army of litigators can easily shut people down, as does the ability to pay people to stay quiet - which incidentally, he is currently an unindicted co-conspirator on a case where his partner is currently in prison for paying people to keep quiet.

If we learned anything from Mueller, it's that a sitting president can't be charged with a crime, so that argument falls away rather weakly when held up to any kind of scrutiny.Nobody in the media was questioning Saville while he was alive, they all knew though. Maybe that's why he got away with it. Whereas the media have accusd investigated and hounded Trump every single day since he said "I'm running for President." The day before that, they didn't care about him.

[Alf]

Oooh I get it, you don't understand what deflection means.

By all means, carry on along with LT with your attempts to deflect criticism of Trump by driving this discussion off topic but the rest of us will stick to discussing the issue from now on.You're blaming Donald Trump for some mentally ill nutcase shooting up a mall in El Paso. That's the story here.

[The Slim Reaper]

Nobody in the media was questioning Saville while he was alive, they all knew though. Maybe that's why he got away with it. Whereas the media have accusd investigated and hounded Trump every single day since he said "I'm running for President." The day before that, they didn't care about him.

People most definitely were questioning saville though? You mean to say, that if you or I were eligible to run for president, our private lives wouldn't instantly face more scrutiny the day after we declared?

It's not a Trump phenomenon; Obama was hounded as a Kenyan Muslim by pepe the frog loving, 4chan, far right weirdo's, who pretended Hillary had dementia and was minutes from death. The media haven't accused Trump, it was accusers and his own words that put him under further investigation. If anything, the media were a bit derelict in their investigations of Trump because he was a ratings, and money winner for them.

[Twosugars]

Everything that doesn't suit your narrative is a typical deflection to you.

Argue your case if you can, dont go personal please

[Tom4784]

You're blaming Donald Trump for some mentally ill nutcase shooting up a mall in EL Paso. That's the story here.

An oversimplification that doesn't reflect reality in order to protect your favourite orange mushroom.

At least two attacks in the past week have been a result of right wing terrorism with both attackers citing Trump's words, actions and/or presidency as inspiration.

As I said before, pretty much every leader is considerate with their words, they do not speak out of turn, they think before they speak or tweet or make a statement and that's because their words have power.

Trump has a fanatical fanbase, it's cult-like and so when he's tweeting hatred like a teenager without a care in the world then the crazies will listen and use his words as justification.

It is a FACT that right wing terrorism is now the most common form of terrorism in America and it's a FACT that the rate of attacks have increased since 2016 when Trump has taken office. Extremists listen to Trump's rhetoric and they believe it's permission and validation to take action.

It's quite undeniable but Trump's supporters can always be relied on to try to deny reality for what it is.

[Alf]

Argue your case if you can, dont go personal pleaseI'll do what I want. I ain't scared of James and Josy. They ban me for no reason anyway. So I may as well give them something to ban me for.

So don't tell me what to do, If I want to do it, I will.

[The Slim Reaper]

From the manifesto:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBNLE2aWkAAxKtu?format=jpg&name=900x900

Trump tweets today:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBNLE2ZX4AAEe-F?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Tom4784]

From the manifesto:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBNLE2aWkAAxKtu?format=jpg&name=900x900

Trump tweets today:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBNLE2ZX4AAEe-F?format=jpg&name=900x900

It's the same language and phrasing but people will try to find a way to deny it.

[Alf]

It's the same language and phrasing but people will try to find a way to deny it. I could use the same language and phrasing, because the mainstream media is proven to be fake, but I don't support anybody killing people.

[Tom4784]

I could use the same language and phrasing, because the mainstream media is proven to be fake, but I don't support anybody killing people.

Proven fake how? Expand upon that view point.

[Alf]

Proven fake how? Expand upon that view point.Shall we just do this year?

The 2 and a half year Russian stuff, all turned out fake.
The Covington kids was false
The mainstream ran with the Jessie Smollett interpretation of events

If we go back further. There's the hands up don't shoot.

Lazy journalism producing fake news.

[Alf]

Trump is a Nazi

Fake news

[Alf]

Trump is torturing kids at the border

Fake news!

[Alf]

And that's all I have to say on the matter.

I have nothing more to say on this thread.

So anybody who replies to me is obviously trolling.

[Crimson Dynamo]

John Sopal last night on the BBC used a malicious quote about what Trump said about the "squad" he said "donald trump0 told these 4 women to go back to where they came from"

that wasnt the quote al all or the sentiment (he said go back and then report back to the USA)- totally different but as he is a nasty little trump hater he broadcast it and it was aired

and that is the BBC

vile

[Twosugars]

The sad thing is a case could be made for many conservative policies by a compassionate and measured politician. Trump is not it. He is an insecure, malicious, vain and shallow person. He is doing conservatives no favour, the opposite in fact.

[Tom4784]

Shall we just do this year?

The 2 and a half year Russian stuff, all turned out fake.
The Covington kids was false
The mainstream ran with the Jessie Smollett interpretation of events

If we go back further. There's the hands up don't shoot.

Lazy journalism producing fake news.

Yeah, you've got this all wrong. You can't call something fake simply because YOU don't possess all the facts or lack a basic understanding of them.

Nothing about the Russian interference in the election was fake, it's honestly worrying that you believe that despite all the evidence out there. There was interference, this is an undeniable fact, Alf.

'The Covington kids are false' What does this even mean? Are you saying they don't exist? Are they figments of someone's imaginations?

The media posted what was believed to be the facts at the time of the Jussie Smollet case and they carried on reporting the case as it developed. Your complaints about it make no sense since they reported the accusation as false. You're essentially complaining about the media reporting this case?

Honestly Alf, it's difficult to make sense of what you are saying because your argument is basically whatever helps Trump look better and discrediting anything that reveals truths about him you don't like by using illogical mind gymnastics to try to justify why Trump is the sole teller of truth in the world.

It's all very cult-y.

[Alf]

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

Just on the Jussie Smollett one Dezzy, you say the media posted what the believed to be the facts. Why didn't they wait for the facts? It's not even that big of a story, attacks happen in Chicago all the time.

The reason was to send out anti-Trump propaganda.

Even little old me, sat at home in Hull, immediately was suspicious of the story, because it didn't make sense. And top mainstream journalists couldn't work that out? Or could they, but they were happy to lie.

[The Slim Reaper]

John Sopal last night on the BBC used a malicious quote about what Trump said about the "squad" he said "donald trump0 told these 4 women to go back to where they came from"

that wasnt the quote al all or the sentiment (he said go back and then report back to the USA)- totally different but as he is a nasty little trump hater he broadcast it and it was aired

and that is the BBC

vile

Yes, because the "go back to where you came from" trope hasn't been used for generations to insult and degrade minorities, it's merely an invitation to help the white people govern more effectively.

We're different generations, and even I remember seeing "****'s go home" or "******* out" written on motorway flyovers etc.

Who amongst us doesn't remember the famous chant of "send her back, send her back, send her back, then report back to the USA" at his rallies?

[The Slim Reaper]

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.

Just on the Jussie Smollett one Dezzy, you say the media posted what the believed to be the facts. Why didn't they wait for the facts? It's not even that big of a story, attacks happen in Chicago all the time.

The reason was to send out anti-Trump propaganda.

Even little old me, sat at home in Hull, immediately was suspicious of the story, because it didn't make sense. And top mainstream journalists couldn't work that out? Or could they, but they were happy to lie.

The newspaper headlines on 9/12:

Something happened in New York.

[arista]

Trump just called this Domestic Terrorism
and for this 21 year old
a Fast Death Penalty is now on route.


[He called this weekend's attacks in Texas and Ohio "barbaric", adding they were "crimes against all humanity".]

[arista]

Its now 21 dead , sadly.

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-blames-mental-illness-video-games-and-social-media-for-mass-shootings-11778094

[Twosugars]

Trump just called this Domestic Terrorism
and for this 21 year old
a Fast Death Penalty is now on route.


[He called this weekend's attacks in Texas and Ohio "barbaric", adding they were "crimes against all humanity".]

Don't believe a word he says

[arista]

Don't believe a word he says


Of Course.


But today he changed his thoughts

[Twosugars]

Of Course.


But today he changed his thoughts

Bc something happened. Soon he will be back to hate mongering

[bots]

Bc something happened. Soon he will be back to hate mongering

in fairness to Trump, he has announced some measures, things start changing from small beginnings

[The Slim Reaper]

Of Course.


But today he changed his thoughts

He didn't, because not long after that speech he was back pushing immigration reform as the lesson from the weekend. So a white nationalist murders loads of innocent brown people, and the lesson isn't that he needs to sort himself out, it's that they need to stop brown people coming in so white dudes don't have to massacre them.

[bots]

He didn't, because not long after that speech he was back pushing immigration reform as the lesson from the weekend. So a white nationalist murders loads of innocent brown people, and the lesson isn't that he needs to sort himself out, it's that they need to stop brown people coming in so white dudes don't have to massacre them.

He holds a political view, why should he change that view when some idiot goes shooting?

[The Slim Reaper]

He holds a political view, why should he change that view when some idiot goes shooting?

I'm with you on this; his dad was in the KKK, and he's a vile racist and shows it whenever possible, but I was replying to Arista who said he changed his views today.

Edit: my bad, "changed his thoughts"

[Twosugars]

in fairness to Trump, he has announced some measures, things start changing from small beginnings

America will be a minority white country before long.
Here's hoping he's the last racist elected to be president

[Oliver_W]

The shooter: is openly calling himself a leftist, has his pronouns in his twitter bio, supports Elizabeth Warren.

Certain people: yeah but it's still Trump's fault.

[arista]

The shooter: is openly calling himself a leftist, has his pronouns in his twitter bio, supports Elizabeth Warren.

Certain people: yeah but it's still Trump's fault.



Yes he supported Warren

[bots]

Trump insisted that a baby who was left an orphan by the shootings be brought to the hospital for a picture. Does anyone else find this completely tasteless?


https://e3.365dm.com/19/08/1600x900/skynews-trump-melania-el-pas_4741406.jpg

[Liam-]

Everything he does is tasteless, but that definitely takes the cake, he’s a ghoul

[arista]

Trump insisted that a baby who was left an orphan by the shootings be brought to the hospital for a picture. Does anyone else find this completely tasteless?


https://e3.365dm.com/19/08/1600x900/skynews-trump-melania-el-pas_4741406.jpg



No he can do what every other President does.
Not a problem.

The Shooter did not follow Trump
he liked Warren.

[Vicky.]

The shooter: is openly calling himself a leftist, has his pronouns in his twitter bio, supports Elizabeth Warren.

Certain people: yeah but it's still Trump's fault.

Well, if he lifted measures for, well, stopping mentally ill people getting access to guns, and then a mentally ill person goes a shooting, then surely he needs to take some blame? (and certainly not be all..well people like him shouldn't have a gun, why is there no measures in place, will get right to it!)

Even if the shooter was a leftie apparently, if they were mentally ill, then regardless of their politicial views, the person who basically allowed them to have the gun, is (partially) responsible IMO.
Trump insisted that a baby who was left an orphan by the shootings be brought to the hospital for a picture. Does anyone else find this completely tasteless?


https://e3.365dm.com/19/08/1600x900/skynews-trump-melania-el-pas_4741406.jpg

That kind of **** is always tasteless I think, regardless of who it is thats explotiing the orphaned kid in question for a photoshoot opportunity. Seem something else thats a lot more common than it should be really..

[Liam-]

No he can do what every other President does.
Not a problem.

The Shooter did not follow Trump
he liked Warren.

I can’t remember any other President using an orphan who’s parents died in a mass shooting as a photo op like they’re meeting Mickey Mouse at Disneyland, it’s appalling

[Oliver_W]

Well, if he lifted measures for, well, stopping mentally ill people getting access to guns, and then a mentally ill person goes a shooting, then surely he needs to take some blame? (and certainly not be all..well people like him shouldn't have a gun, why is there no measures in place, will get right to it!)

Even if the shooter was a leftie apparently, if they were mentally ill, then regardless of their politicial views, the person who basically allowed them to have the gun, is (partially) responsible IMO.

By that logic we can blame Obama for the shootings which happened under his presidency.

I know people point to Trump lifting some regulations, but (as far as I know) that only applied to older people who needed help with their pension, not all people with mental issues.

[Alf]

The shooter: is openly calling himself a leftist, has his pronouns in his twitter bio, supports Elizabeth Warren.

Certain people: yeah but it's still Trump's fault.But forum members in this thread assured me that it was Right wing, White supremacists, are you trying to tell me that they jumped to conclusions too soon and was wrong?

Who'd have thunk it?

Like other members, I've lost interest in the story now.

[Vicky.]

By that logic we can blame Obama for the shootings which happened under his presidency.


We can indeed if Obama lifted restrictions on mentally ill people purchasing guns or anything similar to make it even more lax to get weapons? Not sure if he did, don't really keep up with American politics but also certainly do not think Obama is this god like figure many see him as either :laugh:

I think any President who does nothing about gun regulation, can be blamed somewhat when the mass shootings occur really. However, there is MORE blame to go round, IF (as seems to have happened with Trump) measures that were put in place specifically to safeguard against mentally ill people getting weapons, were lifted, and then a mentally ill person does a large shootout..common sense?

[Kizzy]

I can’t remember any other President using an orphan who’s parents died in a mass shooting as a photo op like they’re meeting Mickey Mouse at Disneyland, it’s appalling

That was the most rancid thing I have ever seen... there is just no human emotion from these two, they're like droids :/

[Oliver_W]

We can indeed if Obama lifted restrictions on mentally ill people purchasing guns or anything similar to make it even more lax to get weapons?

Those restrictions didn't apply to all mentally ill people, only elderly people who had trouble with their pensions.

[The Slim Reaper]

But forum members in this thread assured me that it was Right wing, White supremacists, are you trying to tell me that they jumped to conclusions too soon and was wrong?

Who'd have thunk it?

Like other members, I've lost interest in the story now.

The difference, is that he wasn't shooting people having left a manifesto talking about free healthcare and affordable education. It's not the political leaning of a person that tells us the situation, because folks from the left and right have been killing people with guns as long as they've had them available, but when explains in detail why he's doing what he's doing, and he's parroting the language of the trump, then it's fairly obvious what hs motivations were.

[Vicky.]

Those restrictions didn't apply to all mentally ill people, only elderly people who had trouble with their pensions.

Thats just simply..not true though? Not sure why you are posting that as its obvious, provable bollocks :laugh:

[Vicky.]

Really really do not get why high powered guns are not, simply, disallowed. Let people keep their handguns for 'protection' given theres such uproar whever guns are mentioned as apparently everyone needs them for self defence, guns that fire loads of rounds and such, theres surely no need for if the excuse is 'but if someone broke into my house' or whatever.

[Niamh.]

Really really do not get why high powered guns are not, simply, disallowed. Let people keep their handguns for 'protection' given theres such uproar whever guns are mentioned as apparently everyone needs them for self defence, guns that fire loads of rounds and such, theres surely no need for if the excuse is 'but if someone broke into my house' or whatever..

The only reason that makes sense as to why they're not, is money

[Vicky.]

.

The only reason that makes sense as to why they're not, is money

Well yes, obviously its the gun lobby and cash. But, what reason is sold to the public for that one? Can't really see anything..as the public surely do not care about gun companies making cash...so? There has to be a 'its for your protection!!!' type reason being thrown about, but protection just does not work with weapons like that that really, only the army should bloody have D:

[Twosugars]

But forum members in this thread assured me that it was Right wing, White supremacists, are you trying to tell me that they jumped to conclusions too soon and was wrong?

Who'd have thunk it?

Like other members, I've lost interest in the story now.

He was far right

All that bollocks about supporting Warren is a smoke screen.

[Twosugars]

Thats just simply..not true though? Not sure why you are posting that as its obvious, provable bollocks :laugh:

:clap1:

[GiRTh]

Obama tried many times too change gun laws but was blocked every time by a pissy congress.

US Republicans attack Obama gun control move (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35239504)

Why Obama is powerless to reform gun laws (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34429918)

[Oliver_W]

He was far right

All that bollocks about supporting Warren is a smoke screen.
Source?

Thats just simply..not true though? Not sure why you are posting that as its obvious, provable bollocks :laugh:

My aplogies, I did make a slight mistake - the ban was for anyone on government assisted finance, not just pensions:)

[Twosugars]

Source?



My aplogies, I did make a slight mistake - the ban was for anyone on government assisted finance, not just pensions:)

Common sense is my source. His actions and his words dont match up.
Especially if he asks not to connect him with trump.

Tell me when Warren attacked immigrants like trump has?

[Oliver_W]

Common sense is my source. His actions and his words dont match up.
Especially if he asks not to connect him with trump.

Tell me when Warren attacked immigrants like trump has?

You can be left wing while being racist and/or against immigration.

Elizabeth Warren isn't a religion, no-one's claiming he based his every move based on things she's said. But the fact remains that he has voiced support for her and against Trump.

[Twosugars]

You can be left wing while being racist and/or against immigration.

Elizabeth Warren isn't a religion, no-one's claiming he based his every move based on things she's said. But the fact remains that he has voiced support for her and against Trump.

Bc he is a good far right boy and learned their methods of disinformation, Oliver. ;)

[Oliver_W]

Bc he is a good far right boy and learned their methods of disinformation, Oliver. ;)

Are you going to point to something specific, or are you just making things up?

[Twosugars]

About his manifesto



Much of the document centered on his belief that the Democrats are trying to “own America”. It reads: “They intend to use open borders, free healthcare for illegals, citizenship and more to enact a political coup by importing and then legalizing millions of new voters.”

His language mirrors Trump’s. The president has used the term “open borders” on Twitter 57 times to falsely describe Democrats’ stance on immigration. Though Democrats’ opinions on border security policy vary widely, mainstream opinion does not include opening borders.



And you try to tell us he "supports" Warren:laugh2:

[Beso]

Trump's just an easy target for people to deflect the attention away from thier own devious motives.

[Oliver_W]

About his manifesto



And you try to tell us he "supports" Warren:laugh2:

You can be racist and against open borders while being left wing.

[Twosugars]

Trump's just an easy target for people to deflect the attention away from thier own devious motives.
:laugh:
You can be racist and against open borders while being left wing.

:laugh:

[Kazanne]

Trump's just an easy target for people to deflect the attention away from thier own devious motives.

This is very true parmy :wavey:

[Beso]

This is very true parmy :wavey:

Hi.:blush:

[Kizzy]

He's an easy target because he's literally a fascist.

[Twosugars]

He's an easy target because he's literally a fascist.

Yup. I can imagine germans saying the same about hitler, he meant well you know:laugh:

[Oliver_W]

He's an easy target because he's literally a fascist.

Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism
Doesn't really apply to Trump. He's not been especially nationalistic, and he's rolled back too many regulations to be called overly authoritarian.

characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition,
Nope.


and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Again, he's more into deregulation and free market.

[GiRTh]

He's not been especially nationalistic,.:joker::joker::joker::joker:

Nationalistic

adjective

having or expressing strong identification with one's own nation and vigorous support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

[Oliver_W]

:joker::joker::joker::joker:

Nationalistic

adjective

having or expressing strong identification with one's own nation and vigorous support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

When has he done this?

Saying "maybe it's a good idea if we know who's coming into the country" isn't like that.

[GiRTh]

When has he done this?

Saying "maybe it's a good idea if we know who's coming into the country" isn't like that.Actually it is. He's twice tried to implement a Muslim ban, the wall, etc. No doubt you'll have an answer for those but one you wont is pulling out of the Iran deal. That was nationalism one on one.

[Oliver_W]

Actually it is. He's twice tried to implement a Muslim ban, the wall, etc. No doubt you'll have an answer for those but one you wont is pulling out of the Iran deal. That was nationalism one on one.

The muslim ban only applied to a few countries which had been affected by terrorism, and the wall's aim is to stop illegal immigration, not all.

[GiRTh]

I knew you'd have an answer for that but not the Iran deal. Nicely downplayed.

Trump also want to pull out of NATO. Explain how that and the Iran deal arent acts of nationalism?

[Liam-]

Let’s not forget the whole ‘good people on both sides’ thing concerning literal nazis

[Twosugars]

Is Donald Trump a fascist? The question is usually posed as an insult rather than as a serious inquiry. A common response is that “he is not as bad as Hitler”, but this rather dodges the issue. Hitler was one hideous exponent of fascism, which comes in different flavours but he was by no means the only one.

The answer is that fascist leaders and fascism in the 1920s and 1930s were similar in many respects to Trump and Trumpism. But they had additional toxic characteristics, born out of a different era and a historic experience different from the United States.


What are the most important features of fascism? They include ultra-nationalism and authoritarianism; the demonisation and persecution of minorities; a cult of the leader; a demagogic appeal to the “ignored” masses and against a “treacherous” establishment; contempt for parliamentary institutions; disregard for the law while standing on a law and order platform; control of the media and the crushing of criticism; slogans promising everything to everybody; a promotion of force as a means to an end leading to violence, militarism and war.


The list could go on to include less significant traits such as a liking for public displays of strength and popularity at rallies and parades; a liking also for gigantic building projects as the physical embodiment of power.

Hitler and Mussolini ticked all these boxes and Trump ticks most of them, though with some important exceptions. German and Italian fascism was characterised above all else by aggressive and ultimately disastrous wars. Trump, on the contrary, is a genuine “isolationist” who has not started a single war in the two-and-a-half years he has been in the White House.

It is not that Trump abjures force, but he prefers it to be commercial and economic rather than military, and he is deploying it against numerous countries from China to Mexico and Iran. As a strategy this is astute, avoiding the bear traps that American military intervention fell into in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is an approach which weakens the targeted state economically, but it does not produce decisive victories or unconditional surrenders.


The independent

The orange moron is a fascist wannabe constrained by the American system

[user104658]

Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism
Doesn't really apply to Trump. He's not been especially nationalistic, and he's rolled back too many regulations to be called overly authoritarian.

:think: His entire election platform was built on ultranationalism and he's constantly shown isolationist leanings in both domestic actions and international relations. He rolls back things that he doesn't agree with and attempts to hammer in his own ideas in their place. This is just nonsense.


characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition,
Nope.

He constantly denounces any opposition to himself as "un-American" or even treasonous. Or he just announces it to be "fake". He employs all sorts of tactics to attempt to make any criticism of himself seem illegitimate and those criticising him incompetent or to have ulterior motives. He removes journalists and reporters who are critical of him from events or bans them from being there in the first place. That is "forcible suppression" in a modern context.


and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Again, he's more into deregulation and free market.

Deregulation and free market? Within the US itself maybe - because he's an ultranationalist. When it comes to international trade, he's taking constant action to outright vilify products from China, and waving trade deals at the UK like a carrot to get us to fall in line with US policy.


Come on.

[Kizzy]

Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism
Doesn't really apply to Trump. He's not been especially nationalistic, and he's rolled back too many regulations to be called overly authoritarian.

characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition,
Nope.


and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
Again, he's more into deregulation and free market.

Neo fascism.

[Nicky91]

You can be left wing while being racist and/or against immigration.

Elizabeth Warren isn't a religion, no-one's claiming he based his every move based on things she's said. But the fact remains that he has voiced support for her and against Trump.

she is to me though, the one who could save america, and FINALLY make the evil super rich pay more taxes as it should

she stands up for all poor people in america, and i hope she'll also demolish the stupid trump wall

[thesheriff443]

There has been mass shootings under lots of presidents time in power.

Presidents themselves have been shot and killed.

People that are willing to kill innocent people including women and children are not right in the head regardless of their reasons for doing it.

[Oliver_W]

Let’s not forget the whole ‘good people on both sides’ thing concerning literal nazis
Then I guess we should also not forget the actual context of that remark :)

"They (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/)didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."

[Twosugars]

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/trump-and-the-rhetoric-of-fascism.html

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/history-holds-the-antidote-to-trumps-fascist-politics/

[Denver]

With Trump its always

White person guns down alot of people - They are mentally Ill and need help

Muslim guns down alot of people - They are a terrorist and they must be all killed

[bots]

Then I guess we should also not forget the actual context of that remark :)

"They (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/)didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."


You could say the same about the Nazi party. I'm sure they were some people in that party that wouldn't say boo to a goose, but they were a member of and supported an organisation hell bent on genocide. That's the point.

[Oliver_W]

You could say the same about the Nazi party. I'm sure they were some people in that party that wouldn't say boo to a goose, but they were a member of and supported an organisation hell bent on genocide. That's the point.

Not comparable as Trump has never voiced support for genocide.

[bots]

Not comparable as Trump has never voiced support for genocide.

An attempted ban on all muslims, calling countries ****holes, demeaning latinos may not be genocide, but it enables it.

[Oliver_W]

An attempted ban on all muslims, calling countries ****holes, demeaning latinos may not be genocide, but it enables it.

He never attempted to ban all muslims, the ban was only for a handful of countries which were highly affected by terrorism.
Calling countries ****holes is dodgy language, I agree he shouldn't have said it. I don't know which incident of "demeaning Latinos" you're referring to, but again it was never all of them, unless you know of a quote I haven't encountered.

[The Slim Reaper]

He never attempted to ban all muslims, the ban was only for a handful of countries which were highly affected by terrorism.
Calling countries ****holes is dodgy language, I agree he shouldn't have said it. I don't know which incident of "demeaning Latinos" you're referring to, but again it was never all of them, unless you know of a quote I haven't encountered.

Here's the rub if you insist on using that logic; the saudis are a huge terror hotspot, providing most of the 9/11 attackers and funding it, the genocide in Yemen also has their dirty hands all over it, and yet Trump and his family said nothing about it, while Jared was busy begging for MBS's money on whatsapp.

If I don't like one black person, so call him a dumb N, is that ok because I didn't mean all black people?

[Kizzy]

An attempted ban on all muslims, calling countries ****holes, demeaning latinos may not be genocide, but it enables it.

He is also complicit in the dispossession of the Palistinians

[Oliver_W]

.

If I don't like one black person, so call him a dumb N, is that ok because I didn't mean all black people?

What has Trump said that's comparable to calling someone the N-word?

[Kizzy]

What has Trump said that's comparable to calling someone the N-word?

Didn't he suggest all mexicans were rapists?

[The Slim Reaper]

What has Trump said that's comparable to calling someone the N-word?

Well apparently there are apprentice tapes under lock that has a fairly liberal use of the N word in them, but that's not the point. My point was on whether insulting 1 person in a racist way was ok, because it's not all of them. Which incidentally was the point you were making.

I think calling them rapists, and using infestation/invasion rhetoric on par with the Nazi dehumanisation of the Jews, is a pretty good example.

His dismantling of their justice service, replacing career politicians who've worked with both sides, for incompetent people who's only quality is loyalty to trump, is another sign of authoritarianism.

[Oliver_W]

Didn't he suggest all mexicans were rapists?

Nope!

[Oliver_W]

Well apparently there are apprentice tapes under lock that has a fairly liberal use of the N word in them, but that's not the point. My point was on whether insulting 1 person in a racist way was ok, because it's not all of them. Which incidentally was the point you were making.

Who did he insult in a racist way?

[The Slim Reaper]

Who did he insult in a racist way?

Is this a serious question? This isn't good faith discussion. Even American conservatives acknowledge trumps racism.

Telling women of colour to go back from where they came from is a racist trope used for generations. I'm quite sure if you saw an iphone clip of a person on the tube saying the same things as he does, you'd have the honesty to recognise it for what it is.

[Oliver_W]

Is this a serious question? This isn't good faith discussion. Even American conservatives acknowledge trumps racism.

Telling women of colour to go back from where they came from is a racist trope used for generations. I'm quite sure if you saw an iphone clip of a person on the tube saying the same things as he does, you'd have the honesty to recognise it for what it is.

Do you mean the time he suggested they go and sort out their countries of origin, and then return home to the USA?

[Kizzy]

Nope!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-37230916/drug-dealers-criminals-rapists-what-trump-thinks-of-mexicans

[The Slim Reaper]

Do you mean the time he suggested they go and sort out their countries of origin, and then return home to the USA?

Ahh yes, there is nothing he can say that can't be excused by those who share his abhorrent views.

We all remember the chants as he stood in silent approval, of "send her back, send her back, then welcome her on her return home to the USA".

[The Slim Reaper]

What about the time he refused to rent out his apartments to black people? Was that racist?

[Oliver_W]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-37230916/drug-dealers-criminals-rapists-what-trump-thinks-of-mexicans
Oh wow, a collection of out of context clips. Very convincing.

Ahh yes, there is nothing he can say that can't be excused by those who share his abhorrent views.

We all remember the chants as he stood in silent approval, of "send her back, send her back, then welcome her on her return home to the USA".
then he told them to stop. He didn't orchestrate the chants.

What about the time he refused to rent out his apartments to black people? Was that racist?
That was his father.

[The Slim Reaper]

Oh wow, a collection of out of context clips. Very convincing.


then he told them to stop. He didn't orchestrate the chants.


That was his father.

No, he didn't tell them to stop, he stood there for 13 seconds as he breathed it all in.

It wasn't his father - who was also in the KKK and did the same things, but DT also had the no black policy.

[Oliver_W]

but DT also had the no black policy.

I've not heard this before, how do you know?

[The Slim Reaper]

I've not heard this before, how do you know?

He signed an agreement in 1975 stating he wouldn't discriminate against black people, this was after he'd been sued under the fair housing act in 73 for discriminating against black people.

[Oliver_W]

He signed an agreement in 1975 stating he wouldn't discriminate against black people, this was after he'd been sued under the fair housing act in 73 for discriminating against black people.

Oh yeah, the time he was working under his father?

[arista]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-37230916/drug-dealers-criminals-rapists-what-trump-thinks-of-mexicans


Kizzy its "Some" Mexicans
Trump missed that out
its the way he talks

[Withano]

SD&N 2019

Everyone: common, sensible opinion
Oliver: actually no, the opposite is true
Everyone: no
Oliver: mmhm

[The Slim Reaper]

Oh yeah, the time he was working under his father?

...as president of Trump management.

I have no idea what point you're actually trying to make here, Oliver but he wasn't the subservient tea boy. If you're president of a company, then you're responsible for it.

You're lying to yourself with this constant rationalisation of his racism.

Let me turn this around, do you think he's done or said anything racist (I'll even make this easier for you), since 2015?

[The Slim Reaper]

Kizzy its "Some" Mexicans
Trump missed that out
its the way he talks

The cult of trump; where there isn't anything they won't do to protect themselves from reality. If you have even the slightest interest in the truth, then his speech gave the game away. He said exactly what he wanted to say.

[arista]

The cult of trump; where there isn't anything they won't do to protect themselves from reality. If you have even the slightest interest in the truth, then his speech gave the game away. He said exactly what he wanted to say.


Sure back in 2016 he was angry.

[bots]

Sure back in 2016 he was angry.

and he is still angry now :laugh:

can't be good for an unfit man of his age

[The Slim Reaper]

Sure back in 2016 he was angry.

So? And by agreeing with me, you've just undone your previous argument that he didn't mean it. Now it's because he was angry. At any point do you start holding him accountable, or do you just make more excuses for him?

[arista]

So? And by agreeing with me, you've just undone your previous argument that he didn't mean it. Now it's because he was angry. At any point do you start holding him accountable, or do you just make more excuses for him?



No
he later said what he meant
"some" illegal Mexicans are rapists

[arista]

and he is still angry now :laugh:

can't be good for an unfit man of his age



Its the way he rolls