Donald Trump blames video games, mental health, social media & internet for shootings

[Crimson Dynamo]

“Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun,” he said.


https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/08/GettyImages-1159892200-1-640x480.jpg

President Donald Trump condemned white supremacy on Monday, calling for
Americans to unite around several proposals to help identify and prevent mass
shootings.


“In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white
supremacy,” Trump said. “These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate
has no place in America, hatred warps the mind, ravages the heart and
devours the soul.”


The president signaled support for stronger laws regulating the Internet,
social media, and violent video games and supported the concept of improved
mental health and “red flag” laws, allowing relatives to recommend court-
ordered seizures of their firearms.


We must recognize that the Internet has provided a dangerous avenue to
radicalize disturbed minds and perform demented acts,” he said. “We must
shine a light on the dark recesses of the Internet and stop mass murders
before they start.”


Social media, he said, was an “evil contagion” for hatred.


The president also blamed violent and “gruesome and grisly” video games
for contributing to the shootings.


“It is too easy today for troubled youth to surround themselves with a culture
that celebrates violence,” he said. “We must stop or substantially reduce this
and it has to begin immediately.”


Trump also called for stronger mental health laws that would help “better
identify” mentally disturbed individuals capable of mass shootings.


He proposed that new laws could ensure that individuals suffering from mental
health could “not only get treatment but when necessary, involuntary
confinement.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/aug/05/trump-news-today-el-paso-shooting-ohio-media-politics-latest
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/05/donald-trump-condemns-white-supremacy-promises-action-in-response-to-weekends-mass-shootings/

[MB.]

Everything but the actual causes, then

[Marsh.]

Yes, and what is giving these mentally ill people the ability to kill vast numbers of people in minutes? Guns.

:facepalm:

Has he explained why he's not doing more for mental health? (Beyond locking people up in asylums).

[Elliot]

poor america for having to deal with him

[bots]

if trump does it properly he will be able to shut down social meda and lock anyone up for "mental health" issues ... but that's another debate

[Marsh.]

if trump does it properly he will be able to shut down social meda and lock anyone up for "mental health" issues ... but that's another debate

He'd never do the first, he has too much fun on twitter.

[The Slim Reaper]

if trump does it properly he will be able to shut down social meda and lock anyone up for "mental health" issues ... but that's another debate

Properly or worryingly?

[bots]

Properly or worryingly?

scaringly

[Oliver_W]

Unfortunately, a lot of mental health facilities in the USA have closed down over the years, so people with mental problems are more commonly on the streets without treatment, so of course there's more chance of them causing trouble.

Social media is toxic, no-one can deny that.

[Marsh.]

Unfortunately, a lot of mental health facilities in the USA have closed down over the years, so people with mental problems are more commonly on the streets without treatment, so of course there's more chance of them causing trouble.

Exactly this, and with no gun control it's easier for these people to get their hands on weaponry allowing them to mass murder with very little effort.

[Crimson Dynamo]

im pretty sure if they could not get assault rifles this whole thing would be a lot less

[Twosugars]

Social media...his Twitter for example

[Tom4784]

If video games, social media and the internet were to blame then attacks of this frequency would be widespread around the world but these attacks are a US problem and one that's festered through inactivity because too many politicians are scared of the NRA. Trump is just spewing out the typical right wing/boomer scapegoats that always get blamed instead of dealing with the fact that the level of gun violence in the US is a problem unique to the US and that if things ever are to change, the laws regarding guns must change. It'll never happen though, republicans and far too much of the right wing are more concerned with doing what's easy rather than what's right.

Hate speech and rhetoric spewed out from the top has more of an effect on would-be terrorists then ****ing Fortnite. World leaders cannot speak out of term, they must be careful with the language they use or they'll inspire maniacs to commit atrocities. Trump has spent years demonising minorities and laughing along with extreme elements and that has an effect in causing extremists to feel validated in their actions, to inspire them to take murderous action.

[Twosugars]

If video games, social media and the internet were to blame then attacks of this frequency would be widespread around the world but these attacks are a US problem and one that's festered through inactivity because too many politicians are scared of the NRA. Trump is just spewing out the typical right wing/boomer scapegoats that always get blamed instead of dealing with the fact that the level of gun violence in the US is a problem unique to the US and that if things ever are to change, the laws regarding guns must change. It'll never happen though, republicans and far too much of the right wing are more concerned with doing what's easy rather than what's right.

Hate speech and rhetoric spewed out from the top has more of an effect on would-be terrorists then ****ing Fortnite. World leaders cannot speak out of term, they must be careful with the language they use or they'll inspire maniacs to commit atrocities. Trump has spent years demonising minorities and laughing along with extreme elements and that has an effect in causing extremists to feel validated in their actions, to inspire them to take murderous action.

This.
He will blame anything than the gutter level of political discourse he is responsible for

[Twosugars]

https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/08/GettyImages-1159892200-1-640x480.jpg


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/05/donald-trump-condemns-white-supremacy-promises-action-in-response-to-weekends-mass-shootings/

The face of hate

And below the mouthpiece of hate

[Oliver_W]

im pretty sure if they could not get assault rifles this whole thing would be a lot less

Well yeah that too, haha

[The Slim Reaper]

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1836949715

[Ammi]

...no fault laid with himself then...?...and that he treats talk of shooting people as if it were a video game...Trump’s Game...

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1836949715

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

[Moniqua]

he's a monster

[Kizzy]

Everything but his own warped ramblings... ok.

[Twosugars]

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1836949715

The Onion is always great

[Ramsay]

A literal idiot

[GoldHeart]

The face of hate

And below the mouthpiece of hate

His face makes me physically sick :yuk:

[Mystic Mock]

Of course he'll blame anyone and anything other than himself.

The last time I checked none of these things were calling Hispanic people “invaders“ and “rapists” and lets be honest here, we can't actually absolve the blame from the actual shooters either.

[Twosugars]

Here's another proof how full of **** trump is

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
The new law nullifies an Obama-backed rule that added people with mental illnesses to the national background check database.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

That happened in 2017 folks

[Kizzy]

Here's another proof how full of **** trump is

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
The new law nullifies an Obama-backed rule that added people with mental illnesses to the national background check database.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

That happened in 2017 folks
So he could literally be directly responsible?...

[Cherie]

Here's another proof how full of **** trump is

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
The new law nullifies an Obama-backed rule that added people with mental illnesses to the national background check database.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

That happened in 2017 folks

Grim

[Ammi]

Here's another proof how full of **** trump is

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
The new law nullifies an Obama-backed rule that added people with mental illnesses to the national background check database.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

That happened in 2017 folks


...”The National Rifle Association “applauded” Trump’s action. Chris Cox, NRA-ILA executive director, said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.”...it would be laughable but it’s far too horrendous and terrifying...and how much of the Pentagon reserves will he now divert from his wall to mental health issues of his people..?...

[Ammi]

..’Former US President Barack Obama has called on Americans to reject language from any of their leaders that feeds hatred or normalises racism.’...

[Twosugars]

So he could literally be directly responsible?...

Grim

...”The National Rifle Association “applauded” Trump’s action. Chris Cox, NRA-ILA executive director, said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.”...it would be laughable but it’s far too horrendous and terrifying...and how much of the Pentagon reserves will he now divert from his wall to mental health issues of his people..?...

Found it by accident. He did it on the sly, didn't invite people to this signing as he normally does., it wasn't televised.

[Kizzy]

No he wouldn't! His is just him undoing everything Obama did, it's his mission. I'm really surprised the media hasn't picked up on it though?

[Twosugars]

It was on NBC as you see from the link so others in the US must have covered it.
It happened in early 2017, soon after he took power. And I bet he was already distracting everybody with other crazy ideas. Wasn't that the time when he tried banning all muslims from entering the country?

[chuff me dizzy]

I knew President Trump would get the blame :joker: So America had no mass killings before he came to power ?

[Twosugars]

I knew President Trump would get the blame :joker: So America had no mass killings before he came to power ?

Did you read that he cancelled gun checks for mentally Ill?
How's that sitting with you?

[Kizzy]

It was on NBC as you see from the link so others in the US must have covered it.
It happened in early 2017, soon after he took power. And I bet he was already distracting everybody with other crazy ideas. Wasn't that the time when he tried banning all muslims from entering the country?

Sorry I meant the media hasn't picked up on it as a possible contributory factor to the increase in mass shootings.
So while people are calling for gun controls he spend his first year in office removing the protections put in place! :/

[Kizzy]

I knew President Trump would get the blame :joker: So America had no mass killings before he came to power ?

Nobody has said that....nobody.

[bots]

Surely the fact that Trump is acknowledging that mental health is an issue is a good thing, no? I mean by all means criticize him for his previous actions, but at least acknowledge that he is trying to do something about it.

I mean, everyone is saying something needs to be done, he takes some positive steps and again gets criticized .... how exactly is that going to help?

Trump has called for across politics action to try to stop the issue from repeating, should that not be applauded?

[The Slim Reaper]

Surely the fact that Trump is acknowledging that mental health is an issue is a good thing, no? I mean by all means criticize him for his previous actions, but at least acknowledge that he is trying to do something about it.

I mean, everyone is saying something needs to be done, he takes some positive steps and again gets criticized .... how exactly is that going to help?

Trump has called for across politics action to try to stop the issue from repeating, should that not be applauded?

It's actually not. It's the place where the American right always goes after a shooting to avoid having to talk about the gun issue, and the fact that most of the republicans are paid by the NRA. If they were sincere about dealing with the MH side, that would be one thing, but they aren't. You'll hear exactly the same stuff about mental health after the next mass shooting, and then after that one, and then after that one too.

[Twosugars]

Surely the fact that Trump is acknowledging that mental health is an issue is a good thing, no? I mean by all means criticize him for his previous actions, but at least acknowledge that he is trying to do something about it.

I mean, everyone is saying something needs to be done, he takes some positive steps and again gets criticized .... how exactly is that going to help?

Trump has called for across politics action to try to stop the issue from repeating, should that not be applauded?

Shall we see if he brings back the Obama protection he carelessly removed?
I'm holding my breath...
Why would you remove such an obvious safeguard in the first place? Any theories bots?

[bots]

i think any attempt to reverse the trend, however small is a good thing.

[Twosugars]

i think any attempt to reverse the trend, however small is a good thing.

So why he removed Obama's attempt?

[The Slim Reaper]

i think any attempt to reverse the trend, however small is a good thing.

It's not an attempt to reverse the trend, it's an attempt to move the conversation away from the gun control that 90% of Americans (R&D's) want.

The house passed a gun control bill months ago, but Mitch McConnell won't even allow a vote on it in the senate.

Also, when the R's tried to end Obamacare, they were trying to cut medicaid by $800b, which would have destroyed the already cash strapped MH services.

[Twosugars]

Wheeling out the old chestnut about video games :laugh: laughable

[bots]

It's not an attempt to reverse the trend, it's an attempt to move the conversation away from the gun control that 90% of Americans (R&D's) want.

The house passed a gun control bill months ago, but Mitch McConnell won't even allow a vote on it in the senate.

Also, when the R's tried to end Obamacare, they were trying to cut medicaid by $800b, which would have destroyed the already cash strapped MH services.

i think you need to get over this gun control thing, it's a dead argument. How can you control guns in a country that has had a free supply of the things for decades.

I find it laughable personally, when people say ... it's all Trumps fault, when he is trying to take some action ... people need to put there dislike for Trump aside and actually acknowledge that he is trying to do something

[Toy Soldier]

Surely the fact that Trump is acknowledging that mental health is an issue is a good thing, no? I mean by all means criticize him for his previous actions, but at least acknowledge that he is trying to do something about it.



I mean, everyone is saying something needs to be done, he takes some positive steps and again gets criticized .... how exactly is that going to help?



Trump has called for across politics action to try to stop the issue from repeating, should that not be applauded?"Acknowledging that it's part of the issue" alone does absolutely **** all though, it's Captain Hindsight stuff unless he's actually making some sort of commitment to mental health. Which would frankly be almost impossible in the US because the only way to drastically improve the mental health issues that lead to these mass shootings and other expressions of rage, frustration and helplessness in the US would be massive sweeping social reforms.

Because the truth is, whilst gun control obviously SHOULD be brought in to limit the means of committing these acts, the availability of guns has nothing to do with the motivation. The social psychological phenomenon that makes this so much more prominent in the US that anywhere else is baked right into the foundations of the US, "the American Dream", and an idea of what life is supposed to be there that is completely, and increasingly, at odds with reality.

Psychological breakdowns occur when a person's preconceptions of reality collide with objective reality on a level that becomes impossible to rationally process. In the US, from birth people (especially middle class white people) are reassured that "literally anything is possible" with a bit of hard work and a plucky attitude and eventually the vast majority will be confronted with the reality that they are part of a game that they will never win. The mental turmoil that causes is absolutely staggering. Violent outbursts and mass shootings are just the very visible tip of the iceberg; there are millions upon millions of others who simply end up with crippling anxiety, depression and other mental health problems that don't manifest in violence.

So no... Trump suddenly giving a vague nod to mental health means nothing. Just... Nothing.

[Twosugars]

i think you need to get over this gun control thing, it's a dead argument. How can you control guns in a country that has had a free supply of the things for decades.

I find it laughable personally, when people say ... it's all Trumps fault, when he is trying to take some action ... people need to put there dislike for Trump aside and actually acknowledge that he is trying to do something

And I find it laughable when you stay silent when faced with his obvious culpability like his aggressive and divisive rhetoric or his removal of gun checks of mentally I'll.

[The Slim Reaper]

i think you need to get over this gun control thing, it's a dead argument. How can you control guns in a country that has had a free supply of the things for decades.

I find it laughable personally, when people say ... it's all Trumps fault, when he is trying to take some action ... people need to put there dislike for Trump aside and actually acknowledge that he is trying to do something

That is a crazy argument; how has anyone managed to ban guns, ever? Australia and New Zealand have all done it recently. 90% of Americans want tighter restrictions and AR's banned, so I don't need to get over anything my friend, I'm just giving you the truth. You can choose to believe it, or you can make inane posts about me getting over it. It's your choice.

It's not even about Trump; put any R in as president and the conversation is the same, after every mass shooting they talk about mental health because they want to avoid gun control.

[Ammi]

...’cultural change is hard...’...he spoke the words himself...he’s applying it to vid games though but then contradicts...and goes on to talk about hate and bigotry in America...a hate and bigotry that he’s continued to feed into ...a hate that has taken the lives of so many people..?..his ‘words of recovery’ have no weight while his actions keep adding to the issue ...

[Niamh.]

Everything but the actual causes, then

Was just going to say everything but guns mmhhm

[bots]

And I find it laughable when you stay silent when faced with his obvious culpability like his aggressive and divisive rhetoric or his removal of gun checks of mentally I'll.

i have criticised Trump for all those things, and been the first to point the finger at him for some of the things he has said and done. The difference is that I acknowledge a problem is far bigger than Trump and an attempt to do something about it.

[Kizzy]

Surely the fact that Trump is acknowledging that mental health is an issue is a good thing, no? I mean by all means criticize him for his previous actions, but at least acknowledge that he is trying to do something about it.

I mean, everyone is saying something needs to be done, he takes some positive steps and again gets criticized .... how exactly is that going to help?

Trump has called for across politics action to try to stop the issue from repeating, should that not be applauded?

No... he needs to acknowledge that his actons so far in his presidency have been counter productive on this issue.
There were protections there to make sure that people with mental health issues had restrictions on aquireing firearms..and he removed them! In what universe should that be applauded?
He knows exactly what to do. . As it was already done :/ why is he asking for cross party action?

What does that even mean.. he acknowledges mental health is an issue, isn't that the most screamingly obvious thing ever?
It's what he isn't acknowledging that is the issue.

[Vicky.]

Unfortunately, a lot of mental health facilities in the USA have closed down over the years, so people with mental problems are more commonly on the streets without treatment, so of course there's more chance of them causing trouble.

Social media is toxic, no-one can deny that.

Exactly this, and with no gun control it's easier for these people to get their hands on weaponry allowing them to mass murder with very little effort.

Agree with these.

The 'guns dont kill people, people do' defence is technically true, however without guns, these attacks would be much much more unlikely to happen. And yeah, stabbings may go up, but, without sounding harsh..less people would die from a psycho with a knife than one with a gun.

[Vicky.]

Here's another proof how full of **** trump is

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
The new law nullifies an Obama-backed rule that added people with mental illnesses to the national background check database.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

That happened in 2017 folks

Wow..

[Toy Soldier]

i have criticised Trump for all those things, and been the first to point the finger at him for some of the things he has said and done. The difference is that I acknowledge a problem is far bigger than Trump and an attempt to do something about it.

What has he attempted to do about it?

[Ammi]

What has he attempted to do about it?

...that’s it exactly for me...his words have no weight until and unless they become actions which start to address the cultural changes needed, the ones he himself refers to as being hard but being necessary...

[Livia]

Who took the blame for mass shootings pre-Trump? Because from 2009 - 2017 while Obama was in office there were 173 mass shootings in the USA. And that's not all....

2017 was the deadliest year on record for mass shootings. There were four times as many people shot in mass shootings in 2017 than the average of the eight years prior.

In at least one-third of mass shootings, the shooter was legally prohibited from possessing firearms at the time of the shooting.

In half of mass shootings, the shooter exhibited warning signs indicating that they posed a danger to themselves or others before the shooting.

Mass shootings that involved the use of high-capacity magazines resulted in more than twice as many fatalities and 14 times as many injuries on average compared to those that did not.

So who was to blame back then, the president?

[Vicky.]

I think all previous presidents have to share some blame for the state of it tbh (I know Obama did start trying to control it a bit, but it was not enough still IMO). Having said that, I am not to sure how much the president can do themselves? Is it all like our parliament, where people can bluster about, but ultimately have to get a majority vote from a large amount of people?

[Kizzy]

i think you need to get over this gun control thing, it's a dead argument. How can you control guns in a country that has had a free supply of the things for decades.

I find it laughable personally, when people say ... it's all Trumps fault, when he is trying to take some action ... people need to put there dislike for Trump aside and actually acknowledge that he is trying to do something

Get over gun control... have you any idea how ridiculous thst sounds?
If things have never changed they can't change .. so how has the modern world progressed since the writing of the constitution then, why is this the only thing that can't change..

Nobody is advocating preventing Americans from having firearms, yet at the time of writing that constitution were there military grade weapons capable of killing 100s of people? Had they been aware modern advancements would lead to mass murder then perhaps it may have been different.

Again nobody has said it's ALL Trumps fault, the right wing extremist killers have expressed trumps language in their ravings therefore it's fair to make a correlation there, but of course he's not accountable for every shooting and nobody is suggesting that.

My point here is that personally trump has undone more than he's done in relation to gun control, also in his summation of causality he refuses to accept the likely possibility that his words had some influence. Even though we have written evidence from the shooter themselves spouting the same right wing tropes against Hispanics as trump..

All he is trying to do is distance himself and his actions from any blame, and I'd like to say he's not fooling anyone but clearly he is.

[The Slim Reaper]

Just to make things clear, Clinton banned assault weapons in 94, mass shootings reduced by 40%, Not perfect, but a start. That ban expired in 2004 when the republicans allowed it to because they controlled all branches of government.

Since then, mass shootings are up 245%

Laws in the US have to go through the house first, then the senate, then on to the presidents desk for signing into law. Republicans have blocked/tried to block all legislation even being voted on. Presidents don't make laws, but the one side of politics that receives the most funding from NRA (and the dems that do too), have refused to move forward on anything, despite what the American citizens want. It's actually extreme corruption, and shows the dangers of lobbying bodies, and the stupidity of supreme court for allowing unlimited money into politics.

[Liam-]

Obama did try to get some form of reform to gun laws and restrictions, but he was blocked at every opportunity by the Republicans, the NRA are a massive problem in America, buying off politicians to keep guns as free as possible so they make money, people are being allowed to be slaughtered for the sake of companies making a profit.

[bots]

I think all previous presidents have to share some blame for the state of it tbh (I know Obama did start trying to control it a bit, but it was not enough still IMO). Having said that, I am not to sure how much the president can do themselves? Is it all like our parliament, where people can bluster about, but ultimately have to get a majority vote from a large amount of people?

They can issue an executive order which the next president along can revoke.

American people want guns, it's part of their constitution that they have the right to carry them. This isn't the UK, so we have no concept of why they want/need them.

No president has been able to do anything about the gun problem because while people are outraged by mass killings, they still demand the right to have them. Given that, and the fact that it would probably take 5+ generations to remove guns from circulation, the obvious thing to do is act on any red flags that appear that give warning to these potential events happening. There is plenty evidence that these nutters give notice that they are going to do something, that is what needs to be acted on .... and that is what Trump is doing ... or attempting to do

[Twosugars]

Who took the blame for mass shootings pre-Trump? Because from 2009 - 2017 while Obama was in office there were 173 mass shootings in the USA. And that's not all....

2017 was the deadliest year on record for mass shootings. There were four times as many people shot in mass shootings in 2017 than the average of the eight years prior.

In at least one-third of mass shootings, the shooter was legally prohibited from possessing firearms at the time of the shooting.

In half of mass shootings, the shooter exhibited warning signs indicating that they posed a danger to themselves or others before the shooting.

Mass shootings that involved the use of high-capacity magazines resulted in more than twice as many fatalities and 14 times as many injuries on average compared to those that did not.

So who was to blame back then, the president?

Why did he revoke the Obama measure?

[Toy Soldier]

I think all previous presidents have to share some blame for the state of it tbh (I know Obama did start trying to control it a bit, but it was not enough still IMO). Having said that, I am not to sure how much the president can do themselves? Is it all like our parliament, where people can bluster about, but ultimately have to get a majority vote from a large amount of people?

Clinton got an assault rifle ban through in 1994 which had a huge impact on the number of mass shootings... it was temporary and needed to be renewed in 2004; Bush declined and allowed it to expire. Shootings jumped right back up to where they were previously.

The presidency can actually do quite a lot to address this but let's face it, for as long as US ploitics flip-flops between Democrat and Republican (which is likely to be forever) it will never stick. Enough Republican voters won't stand for it for it to swing politics to the Democrats for a generation and they know that.

[Kizzy]

Who took the blame for mass shootings pre-Trump? Because from 2009 - 2017 while Obama was in office there were 173 mass shootings in the USA. And that's not all....

2017 was the deadliest year on record for mass shootings. There were four times as many people shot in mass shootings in 2017 than the average of the eight years prior.

In at least one-third of mass shootings, the shooter was legally prohibited from possessing firearms at the time of the shooting.

In half of mass shootings, the shooter exhibited warning signs indicating that they posed a danger to themselves or others before the shooting.

Mass shootings that involved the use of high-capacity magazines resulted in more than twice as many fatalities and 14 times as many injuries on average compared to those that did not.

So who was to blame back then, the president?

Um liv.. Trump was president in 2017

[Twosugars]

i have criticised Trump for all those things, and been the first to point the finger at him for some of the things he has said and done. The difference is that I acknowledge a problem is far bigger than Trump and an attempt to do something about it.

The problem is bigger than him, but I dont expect him to go against RNA as his revoking of the Obama check confirms. Words are cheap and inadequate

[Vicky.]

They can issue an executive order which the next president along can revoke.

American people want guns, it's part of their constitution that they have the right to carry them. This isn't the UK, so we have no concept of why they want/need them.

No president has been able to do anything about the gun problem because while people are outraged by mass killings, they still demand the right to have them. Given that, and the fact that it would probably take 5+ generations to remove guns from circulation, the obvious thing to do is act on any red flags that appear that give warning to these potential events happening. There is plenty evidence that these nutters give notice that they are going to do something, that is what needs to be acted on .... and that is what Trump is doing ... or attempting to do

It doesn't sound too much like it, given he is revoking orders that would help somewhat in stopping these people having guns readily available?

I don't really understand American politics at all tbh, hence usually ignoring USA threads. But this gun thing baffles me..completely.

[Liam-]

I mean, while people who commit mass shooting are obviously mentally ill, mental health isn’t the direct cause of people dying, every country has mental health issues, America is the only one with weekly mass shootings, why? Because of the freely accessible guns, people with mental health issues, or who have a background of violence, should never be able to gain access to guns, that’s just common sense, nobody wants all guns taken away, especially not from law abiding citizens who have no intentions of killing anyone, but there needs to be steps put into place, Moscow Mitch has been stopping a vote on background checks because it goes against what he’s paid to stand for, it’s an absolute disgrace

[Nicky91]

blaming video games, social media, internet for these shootings

hmmm i can partially agree with Trump, but i must add that i think first person shooter video games can be considered not to be played by those who are mentally unstable

and yeah access to the internet, mentally unstable ( who for example might also have paranoia problems) that they have easy access to look up guns, also where to buy them


i don't like agreeing with Trump but he has a few good points

[Niamh.]

I mean, while people who commit mass shooting are obviously mentally ill, mental health isn’t the direct cause of people dying, every country has mental health issues, America is the only one with weekly mass shootings, why? Because of the freely accessible guns, people with mental health issues, or who have a background of violence, should never be able to gain access to guns, that’s just common sense, nobody wants all guns taken away, especially not from law abiding citizens who have no intentions of killing anyone, but there needs to be steps put into place, Moscow Mitch has been stopping a vote on background checks because it goes against what he’s paid to stand for, it’s an absolute disgrace

Exactly, I mean it's pretty ****ing obvious that Mental health issues + Access to guns is not going to end well

[Toy Soldier]

They can issue an executive order which the next president along can revoke.

American people want guns, it's part of their constitution that they have the right to carry them. This isn't the UK, so we have no concept of why they want/need them.

No president has been able to do anything about the gun problem because while people are outraged by mass killings, they still demand the right to have them. Given that, and the fact that it would probably take 5+ generations to remove guns from circulation, the obvious thing to do is act on any red flags that appear that give warning to these potential events happening. There is plenty evidence that these nutters give notice that they are going to do something, that is what needs to be acted on .... and that is what Trump is doing ... or attempting to do

You're talking about an outright ban which, I agree, in the US is unrealistic or would take generations. However there is PLENTY of evidence, within the last few decades, to demonstrate that stricter checks and restrictions on certain types of firearm have a dramatic impact on the number of shootings. States that have stricter universal checks and a longer wait between applying and being able to walk out of a store with a brand new gun, have lower rates of death-by-firearm. The stats are available and very clear. Extending restrictions to include anyone with a history of violence also has a huge impact.

[Twosugars]

I believe you dont have to be mentally ill to commit crimes. Some of those people know very well what they are doing and what they want to achieve

See my thread about the nail bomb trump fanatic who got sentenced recently.

[Vicky.]

I believe you dont have to be mentally ill to commit crimes. Some of those people know very well what they are doing and what they want to achieve

See my thread about the nail bomb trump fanatic who got sentenced recently.

I agree with this. Its always put down to mental illness, but some people are just..not good people and mental illness has nowt to do with it. I guess some would argue that to kill someone you have to have mental health issues..but I don't see it like that. Mental illness is blamed way too often IMO.

[Liam-]

Exactly, I mean it's pretty ****ing obvious that Mental health issues + Access to guns is not going to end well

I mean, we don’t give scissors to babies because we know they don’t have the cognitive function to realise they’re dangerous, but yeah, let’s give mentally ill people access to assault rifles, sounds perfectly fine

[Twosugars]

The internet, social media and video games are all available globally.

How come mass shootings are not happening on the same scale globally?

It's obvious that gun availability is the issue

[Nicky91]

Exactly, I mean it's pretty ****ing obvious that Mental health issues + Access to guns is not going to end well

same as that one shooter in Norway, Utoya

Anders Breivik, also had mental health issues, paranoia, thinking he was leading an army or something like that to get rid of young politicians who support foreigners in Norway

access to guns, and also some access to a police uniform


but not going further into that, as that is offtopic from this thread but still a example of a mass shooting

[Kizzy]

They can issue an executive order which the next president along can revoke.

American people want guns, it's part of their constitution that they have the right to carry them. This isn't the UK, so we have no concept of why they want/need them.

No president has been able to do anything about the gun problem because while people are outraged by mass killings, they still demand the right to have them. Given that, and the fact that it would probably take 5+ generations to remove guns from circulation, the obvious thing to do is act on any red flags that appear that give warning to these potential events happening. There is plenty evidence that these nutters give notice that they are going to do something, that is what needs to be acted on .... and that is what Trump is doing ... or attempting to do

How... by doing the opposite, by allowing people with mental health issues access to guns? Do you mean by regulating the Internet. ..banning video games...what?

[Kizzy]

The internet, social media and video games are all available globally.

How come mass shootings are not happening on the same scale globally?

It's obvious that gun availability is the issue

Excellent point 2s!

[Liam-]

Also, Trump can do all the talking he wants about doing something about mental health issues, but his actions don’t match seeing as his administration and the republicans are planning even more cuts to mental health services, so he might say the right things occasionally, but he never does the right thing in practice, he’s a scam artist, always has been, always will be

[Nicky91]

UcWxpAYje0U

this has exactly been a topic too 1 year ago

[Amy Jade]

I'm sick of video games and movies being blamed.

It's lazy af to just blame entertainment.

[Nicky91]

I'm sick of video games and movies being blamed.

It's lazy af to just blame entertainment.

that's why i say it's more partially to blame, but only dangerous for those who are unable to separate reality from fiction, caught up in paranoia due to being mentally ill

[Oliver_W]

What has he attempted to do about it?
This v

Trump also called for stronger mental health laws that would help “better
identify” mentally disturbed individuals capable of mass shootings.

He proposed that new laws could ensure that individuals suffering from mental
health could “not only get treatment but when necessary, involuntary
confinement.”

[Twosugars]

This v

Why he revoked Obama gun check for mentally I'll?

How come those shootings are not happening around the world if things he pointed out are to blame?

[bots]

Surely people can see the irony ....

the NRA say guns aren't the issue ... it's blah

those that play video games ..... games are not the issue it's blah

those that soak up horror movies ..... they are not the issue ... its blah

[Twosugars]

I'm sick of video games and movies being blamed.

It's lazy af to just blame entertainment.

Exactly. Its a smoke screen

[Twosugars]

Surely people can see the irony ....

the NRA say guns aren't the issue ... it's blah

those that play video games ..... games are not the issue it's blah

those that soak up horror movies ..... they are not the issue ... its blah

Except NRA are lying.

[bots]

Except NRA are lying.

not all people that own guns go on mass shootings
not all people that play video games go on mass shootings
not all people who watch horror films go on mass shootings


but some do

[The Slim Reaper]

Surely people can see the irony ....

the NRA say guns aren't the issue ... it's blah

those that play video games ..... games are not the issue it's blah

those that soak up horror movies ..... they are not the issue ... its blah

That's false equivalence; you're equating an organisation that pays politicians to allow them to sell as many guns for as much money as possible, regardless of what the citizenry wants, to gamers and movie watchers. That's not irony, it's silliness.

[Liam-]

not all people that own guns go on mass shootings
not all people that play video games go on mass shootings
not all people who watch horror films go on mass shootings


but some do

And they’re capable of doing so because of the ridiculously easy access to guns capable of killing multiple people in the space of 5 or 10 minutes

[The Slim Reaper]

not all people that own guns go on mass shootings
not all people that play video games go on mass shootings
not all people who watch horror films go on mass shootings


but some do

Not all mass shooters have facial hair, but some do. We can play this game right down to underwear and socks if we want to.

[Twosugars]

Republican crazies are coming out with their own theories



A Republican state representative in Ohio who blamed “homosexual marriage” and “recreational marijuana” – along with many of Donald Trump’s favourite targets – for gun massacres is facing calls from her own party to resign.

In a Facebook post, Candice Keller, who represents a conservative district near Dayton, where nine people were killed early on Sunday, mused about the causes of mass shootings including: family breakdown and same sex marriage, open borders, sportsmen who disrespect the flag and national anthem, the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives, a godless culture, and liberal “snowflakes”.



The Guardian

[Kizzy]

not all people that own guns go on mass shootings
not all people that play video games go on mass shootings
not all people who watch horror films go on mass shootings


but some do

So all those things could contribute. ... except right wing rhetoric of course? That definately couldn't? . It would be ridiculous to suggest that? :/

[Oliver_W]

Republican crazies are coming out with their own theories


The Guardian

I mean, technically most shooters do come from single parent families, right? Family and community are important for everyone, let alone raising children.

I don't think "godlessness" is a problem per say, and there's been no studies either way to show gay couples are ineffective as parents - two parents are better than one.

[Kizzy]

I mean, technically most shooters do come from single parent families, right? Family and community are important for everyone, let alone raising children.

I don't think "godlessness" is a problem per say, and there's been no studies either way to show gay couples are ineffective as parents - two parents are better than one.

The world according to Charles Murray. ..

[Oliver_W]

The world according to Charles Murray. ..

Never heard of him.

[Twosugars]

Perhaps now that the stable genius has spoken, and we know he knows the best words, the admin and mods here would consider a quarantine on the video games subforum?
It may reassure our trump supporting members that say Sullen Girl and Toy Soldier are not gonna detonate a nail bomb on the forum? :worry:

[Twosugars]

I mean, technically most shooters do come from single parent families, right? Family and community are important for everyone, let alone raising children.

I don't think "godlessness" is a problem per say, and there's been no studies either way to show gay couples are ineffective as parents - two parents are better than one.

Yes the evil single parents....:umm2:

[Niamh.]

Also, Trump can do all the talking he wants about doing something about mental health issues, but his actions don’t match seeing as his administration and the republicans are planning even more cuts to mental health services, so he might say the right things occasionally, but he never does the right thing in practice, he’s a scam artist, always has been, always will be

He's trying to take the focus off guns as per usual. Say what you want about Obama but he atleast spoke out about gun laws and got something done

[Kizzy]

Never heard of him.

Google is your friend.

[arista]

“Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun,” he said.


https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/08/GettyImages-1159892200-1-640x480.jpg

President Donald Trump condemned white supremacy on Monday, calling for
Americans to unite around several proposals to help identify and prevent mass
shootings.


“In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white
supremacy,” Trump said. “These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate
has no place in America, hatred warps the mind, ravages the heart and
devours the soul.”


The president signaled support for stronger laws regulating the Internet,
social media, and violent video games and supported the concept of improved
mental health and “red flag” laws, allowing relatives to recommend court-
ordered seizures of their firearms.


We must recognize that the Internet has provided a dangerous avenue to
radicalize disturbed minds and perform demented acts,” he said. “We must
shine a light on the dark recesses of the Internet and stop mass murders
before they start.”


Social media, he said, was an “evil contagion” for hatred.


The president also blamed violent and “gruesome and grisly” video games
for contributing to the shootings.


“It is too easy today for troubled youth to surround themselves with a culture
that celebrates violence,” he said. “We must stop or substantially reduce this
and it has to begin immediately.”


Trump also called for stronger mental health laws that would help “better
identify” mentally disturbed individuals capable of mass shootings.


He proposed that new laws could ensure that individuals suffering from mental
health could “not only get treatment but when necessary, involuntary
confinement.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/aug/05/trump-news-today-el-paso-shooting-ohio-media-politics-latest
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/08/05/donald-trump-condemns-white-supremacy-promises-action-in-response-to-weekends-mass-shootings/


Yes CNNHD last night had Joe Biden on
but he is all over the place on subjects.


At least Trump has changed his views

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes CNNHD last night had Jo Biden on
but he is all over the place on subjects.


At least Trump has changed his views

What views has he changed Arista? Specifically, I mean.

[arista]

What views has he changed Arista? Specifically, I mean.


"Condemn Racism,
Bigotry and
White Supremacy,"

[The Slim Reaper]

"Condemn Racism,
Bigotry and
White Supremacy,"

Ok, we'll see if that's really true, considering he was already back to blaming the media shortly after reading the statement that someone had written for him and bears no resemblance to anything he's ever done. I do like the fact, that by admitting he's changed his views, you're now admitting that Trump promoted white supremacy.

Which does kinda leave me wondering why people on this forum, you included, have gone out of the way to support his agenda?

[arista]

Ok, we'll see if that's really true, considering he was already back to blaming the media shortly after reading the statement that someone had written for him and bears no resemblance to anything he's ever done. I do like the fact, that by admitting he's changed his views, you're now admitting that Trump promoted white supremacy.

Which does kinda leave me wondering why people on this forum, you included, have gone out of the way to support his agenda?


Its better than nothing


As for USA Nazi Groups
Trump could not stop them
like the President before him.

[Twosugars]

"Condemn Racism,
Bigotry and
White Supremacy,"

Let's see what he does about it, shall we

These words were not his, they were written for him

[arista]

Let's see what he does about it, shall we

These words were not his, they were written for him



Of Course

[The Slim Reaper]

Its better than nothing


As for USA Nazi Groups
Trump could not stop them
like the President before him.

Supporting a white supremacist is better than nothing? We'll have to agree to disagree with that, especially when there is another option.

There is also a difference between trying to combat white nationalists, for which Obama was a target, aided by folks like trump who refused to acknowledge he was even a citizen, and using white nationalist language.

Trump is currently trying to classify Antifa as a terrorist organisation, whilst at the same time tickling the tummys of pepe the frog loving Nazi's on 4chan, who are "good people" according to him.

It's not only Trump that needs to change his views, my friend.

[Twosugars]

Tbh I'm genuinely baffled how otherwise rational people can support this giant orange arsehole...

[Nicky91]

Tbh I'm genuinely baffled how otherwise rational people can support this giant orange arsehole...

an arsehole he's not though, he's great at his show the apprentice/celeb apprentice

[Toy Soldier]

not all people that own guns go on mass shootings
not all people that play video games go on mass shootings
not all people who watch horror films go on mass shootings


but some do

Not all people who eat cheese become astronauts
Not all people who wear socks become astronauts
Not all people who have a nose become astronauts


but some do :worry:

[Marsh.]

So mass shootings are caused by movies and single parents?

So why is America the only place this is happening?

[Alf]

So mass shootings are caused by movies and single parents?

So why is America the only place this is happening?It's not, there was a mass shooting in Cumbria this decade. Some nutcase called Derrick Bird.

[Twosugars]

It's not, there was a mass shooting in Cumbria this decade. Some nutcase called Derrick Bird.

How come it's so very rare?

[Alf]

How come it's so very rare?We have less nutters than America.

[Marsh.]

It's not, there was a mass shooting in Cumbria this decade. Some nutcase called Derrick Bird.

"This decade".

How many people did he manage to kill compared to in the US and how often does this happen?

[Marsh.]

We have less nutters than America.

Nutters slang for guns?

[Twosugars]

We have less nutters than America.

That's statistically unlikely.

[Kizzy]

If this forum is a stratified sample of British society we have waaay more.... :laugh:

[GiRTh]

QKiB0APdxTo

[Ammi]

QKiB0APdxTo

...wow that’s powerful stuff, he has such passion..:love:..I agree with everything he says...Trump’s mindset is sadly an echo of what must be in so many hearts...it’s interesting what he says of ‘its every generation’...I haven’t known a regression like this before...

[Kizzy]

That is very powerful, I've said on this forum many times I feel there is a similar undercurrent in England, so much of what he said can ve mirrored here. There are still colonialist attitudes here, right now they are at the fore, the most evident and apparent they've been since Edwardian times imo.
Trump being not to blame is to an extent true, same with Johnson here they are figureheads for a movement.
A collective malaise that has always been around but more adequately suppressed.

[bots]

...wow that’s powerful stuff, he has such passion..:love:..I agree with everything he says...Trump’s mindset is sadly an echo of what must be in so many hearts...it’s interesting what he says of ‘its every generation’...I haven’t known a regression like this before...

i don't think it is a regression sadly. Everything in America has been papering over the cracks. Trump is a symptom, not the cause unfortunately.

I think we are seeing the same effect across europe too

[Ammi]

i don't think it is a regression sadly. Everything in America has been papering over the cracks. Trump is a symptom, not the cause unfortunately.

I think we are seeing the same effect across europe too

...that’s it though, Bots..(...I don’t know if regression is the correct thought but..)....there are generations who would have given no credence to a Donald Trump...no validation at all..?...those cracks would not be screaming so loud and proud as they are today in this generation..?...and similar in Europe, as you say...there has to be a reason for that...

...the power of his words is still ringing with me...

[bots]

...that’s it though, Bots..(...I don’t know if regression is the correct thought but..)....there are generations who would have given no credence to a Donald Trump...an validation at all..?...those cracks would not be screaming so loud and proud as they are today in this generation..?...and similar in Europe, as you say...there has to be a reason for that...

...the power of his words is still ringing with me...

i think there are generations where their thoughts have been suppressed. Donald Trump came along and they have once again been able to voice their thoughts. Donald Trump is in power because of years of suppression. The dems can moan all they like, but they are responsible for people finally saying enough is enough, I will be heard and the result is Trump. Trump has a support base of around 30% of the population. In normal circumstances that wouldn't be enough to win, but throw Clinton into the mix, a dose of Russian interference and you have a Trump win. People should not rely on democracy to remove Trump either. He will use every trick in the book to win in 2020 and if he was prepared to play dirty before, be in no doubt it will be a lot worse in 2020.

[The Slim Reaper]

i think there are generations where their thoughts have been suppressed. Donald Trump came along and they have once again been able to voice their thoughts. Donald Trump is in power because of years of suppression. The dems can moan all they like, but they are responsible for people finally saying enough is enough, I will be heard and the result is Trump. Trump has a support base of around 30% of the population. In normal circumstances that wouldn't be enough to win, but throw Clinton into the mix, a dose of Russian interference and you have a Trump win. People should not rely on democracy to remove Trump either. He will use every trick in the book to win in 2020 and if he was prepared to play dirty before, be in no doubt it will be a lot worse in 2020.

The dems are responsible for what, exactly?

[bots]

The dems are responsible for what, exactly?

For continually turning the screw on how people should behave

[Ammi]

For continually turning the screw on how people should behave

...that doesn’t make sense though bots...to lay any responsibility on the dems in the way you’ve said...I mean to me..?..that like saying for instance...’I’m giving you all equal pay for an equivalent job’ etc...creating equality...and then screams of...OMG how very dare you...if this equality creates prejudice, this is going to be all your doing and on your head..:fist:...generation after generation have strived for equality..equality in race, in religion, in culture etc...how could that possibly create bigotry and prejudice like we are sometimes witnessing now...it is a regression because voices of prejudice are being validated...

[The Slim Reaper]

For continually turning the screw on how people should behave

I'm sorry Bots, but that is absurd. You're going to need to expand on that with examples of what on earth you're talking about.

[bots]

...that doesn’t make sense though bots...to lay any responsibility on the dems in the way you’ve said...I mean to me..?..that like saying for instance...’I’m giving you all equal pay for an equivalent job’ etc...creating equality...and then screams of...OMG how very dare you...if this equality creates prejudice, this is going to be all your doing and on your head..:fist:...generation after generation have strived for equality..equality in race, in religion, in culture etc...how could that possibly create bigotry and prejudice like we are sometimes witnessing now...it is a regression because voices of prejudice are being validated...

it makes a lot of sense Ammi. For years, it wasn't just the dems, but they were the worst. People were told how to think and how to behave. There is a limit to how long that is sustainable. If people aren't progressing economically at the rate they expect they become disillusioned very quickly. People saw the choices offered by the dems and the GOP and said enough is enough. Trump came along and gave this 30% something to focus on ... a target to blame for all their misfortune.

In the same way here, MP's have never been more poorly thought of, they are just not seen as representatives of the people any more. All people see is people playing politics for their own gain ... and it's a recipe for disaster. When the next election comes, hold on to your hat, because it's going to be a very bumpy ride

[Twosugars]

For continually turning the screw on how people should behave

You mean inconveniencing bigots?

[bots]

You mean inconveniencing bigots?

calling people bigots at every possible opportunity sure doesn't help

[Twosugars]

calling people bigots at every possible opportunity sure doesn't help

Maybe if they stopped acting like bigots it may help :shrug:

[bots]

Maybe if they stopped acting like bigots it may help :shrug:

the moment someone gets called a bigot, that's it, the argument is lost. There will never be an opportunity to win that person round by reasoned argument. All it is doing is re-enforcing a divide. It is a term that gets thrown around much to easily

Calling someone a bigot is just a demonstration of the persons own intolerance

[Twosugars]

the moment someone gets called a bigot, that's it, the argument is lost. There will never be an opportunity to win that person round by reasoned argument. All it is doing is re-enforcing a divide. It is a term that gets thrown around much to easily

You assume a good will on the part of bigots. That's not my experience sadly. They just want to destroy any progress we've made since the war. And if you support progress you're called virtue signalling or a snowflake. Even the terms they invented are designed to mock and undermine. They want to fight, not talk.

[Kizzy]

For continually turning the screw on how people should behave

And the conservative right NEVER do that .... hmm
They would never make suggestions like people from other cultras can integrate, or that singles sex couples shouldn't raise children, that lone parents can't raise children adequately, that those on welfare are a drain on society...

[Kizzy]

the moment someone gets called a bigot, that's it, the argument is lost. There will never be an opportunity to win that person round by reasoned argument. All it is doing is re-enforcing a divide. It is a term that gets thrown around much to easily

Calling someone a bigot is just a demonstration of the persons own intolerance

Sometimes you have to say it like it is ...if someone says some ting clearly bigoted then they shouldn't be surprised if they are called a bigot...
I'm not expecting them to like it, however there is as seen on that vid an urgent need to call out some of the inherent prejudice we exhibit now.
You can't be intolerant of intolerance that makes no sense whatsoever.

Instead of lazy scapegoating that had been going on for years it has to be shown that the real reason for socioeconomic economic decline comes from successive governments making bad decisions, the banks unregulated errors, pointless wars...

[bots]

Sometimes you have to say it like it is ...if someone says some ting clearly bigoted then they shouldn't be surprised if they are called a bigot...
I'm not expecting them to like it, however there is as seen on that vid an urgent need to call out some of the inherent prejudice we exhibit now.
You can't be intolerant of intolerance that makes no sense whatsoever.

Instead of lazy scapegoating that had been going on for years it has to be shown that the real reason for socioeconomic economic decline comes from successive governments making bad decisions, the banks unregulated errors, pointless wars...

Calling someone like Trump or his followers a bigot will just entrench views, it won't change anything. I don't know how people can't see that by using that type of argument at every possible opportunity, their position is strengthened. They thrive on polarisation and division and calling someone a bigot is playing right in to their hands

[Tom4784]

There's been study after study since the 90's about violence and video games and they've all proven that there's no link. It's easier to blame video games then it is to blame the people lobbying your party to kill off gun control, I guess.

[Kizzy]

Calling someone like Trump or his followers a bigot will just entrench views, it won't change anything. I don't know how people can't see that by using that type of argument at every possible opportunity, their position is strengthened. They thrive on polarisation and division and calling someone a bigot is playing right in to their hands

And just watching him perpetuate stereotypes... what will that do exactly?
It's exposing... it's showing we see through the smokescreen and refuse to accept it to corrupt another generations psyche... That's what we SHOULD be doing, how do you suggest that is achieved without addressing theit use of division and rhetoric bots? ... I'm all ears.

[Niamh.]

There's been study after study since the 90's about violence and video games and they've all proven that there's no link. It's easier to blame video games then it is to blame the people lobbying your party to kill off gun control, I guess.

Well every country has video games not every country has crazy gun control laws like the USA, the USA seems to be the only one with big mass shooting problems....it's that simple

[bots]

And just watching him perpetuate stereotypes... what will that do exactly?
It's exposing... it's showing we see through the smokescreen and refuse to accept it to corrupt another generations psyche... That's what we SHOULD be doing, how do you suggest that is achieved without addressing theit use of division and rhetoric bots? ... I'm all ears.

One has to use reasoned argument .... not for the ears of Trump, but for the ears of the general population. Getting all hot and bothered won't win any argument.

[Tom4784]

Well every country has video games not every country has crazy gun control laws like the USA, the USA seems to be the only one with big mass shooting problems....it's that simple

Yup, but why face those facts when NRA is donating endlessly to get what it wants?

Gun laws that Trump repealed out of pettiness towards Obama could have saved lives here. His rhetoric inspired these shootings and his actions made it so that it was easier for these monsters to do what they did.

[Niamh.]

Yup, but why face those facts when NRA is donating endlessly to get what it wants?

Gun laws that Trump repealed out of pettiness towards Obama could have saved lives here. His rhetoric inspired these shootings and his actions made it so that it was easier for these monsters to do what they did.

It's so stupid when the answer is so ****ing obvious but people continue to act like it's not that at all :laugh:

[Kizzy]

One has to use reasoned argument .... not for the ears of Trump, but for the ears of the general population. Getting all hot and bothered won't win any argument.

Well go on elaborate... explain what reasoned argument is?
If you explain to someone their views come across as bigoted then is that not reasoned?
How has reasoned argument aided anyone I'm all seriousness in any challenge to the status quo in recent years?
Any reasoned argument has been met with mockery and derision... They were social justice warriors, virtue signallers sat in ' ivory towers', snow flakes ... and the bigger threat of all: Experts, that 'people' are allegedly sick of!
Is it not time now for a change of tactic?

[Twosugars]

I mean the gun use has been made out to be a great freedom issue
It was true when America was a frontier country, wild west etc. It's not the case now.
Sadly, banning guns completely won't work though as all those nutters and survivalists would turn their compounds into fortresses and spill blood fighting the feds.
But incremental removal of the most deadly types of weapons while tightening the gun laws is doable if there's a political will.

[bots]

Well go on elaborate... explain what reasoned argument is?
If you explain to someone their views come across as bigoted then is that not reasoned?
How has reasoned argument aided anyone I'm all seriousness in any challenge to the status quo in recent years?
Any reasoned argument has been met with mockery and derision... They were social justice warriors, virtue signallers sat in ' ivory towers', snow flakes ... and the bigger threat of all: Experts, that 'people' are allegedly sick of!
Is it not time now for a change of tactic?

i think i've explained my point very clearly. I can't make you accept it

[Toy Soldier]

One has to use reasoned argument .... not for the ears of Trump, but for the ears of the general population. Getting all hot and bothered won't win any argument.What alternative reality do you hail from, bots, where the general population is interested in "reasoned argument"?

And is your realm accepting asylum applications?

[Kizzy]

i think i've explained my point very clearly. I can't make you accept it

You havent, you've said very little not very well.

[bots]

You havent, you've said very little not very well.

and that's why there is no point discussing anything with you

[Kizzy]

and that's why there is no point discussing anything with you

I'm not the only one who thinks your generalised ' reasoned argument' suggestion is piss poor,unless you can explain what in your mind constitutes a reasoned argument? One that won't be shot down as any of the examples I stated earlier...
The fact is you can't, so you end the debate which is fine, except you're atempting to blame me for your short comings and I'm not willing to accept that.

[Tom4784]

You can't have reasoned debate with irrational people and a lot of Trump's base is irrational and beyond reason at this point. I think a lot of other people who ended up voting for him last time who aren't extreme in their views have probably turned their back on him by now. The only people left on his side are the extreme elements who can't really be reasoned with.

[The Slim Reaper]

"condemn racism,
bigotry and
white supremacy,"

1159096708028149761

[bots]

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

[The Slim Reaper]

Don't call rapists, rapists said the concerned citizen; they won't realise rape is wrong if you call them out for rape.

[Twosugars]

We are not politicians so we can afford talking straight
I agree that Dems need to address the same issues as trump does, but in a measured way
But, they also need to call out his demagoguery and hate-mongering.

[Withano]

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

The argument is actually over when a bigot defends their views with bigotry, not once they’re called a bigot.

I’d imagine the bigot would then kick up a fuss which is probably why you’ve said what you’ve said cos the discussion will turn to squabbles. But na, they lose when they bring outdated views to the present day.

[GiRTh]

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every timeIn your first sentence you are kind of agreeing with TS that the 30% wont hear reasoned arguments. Define 'reasoned argument' please cuz I'm not sure what you mean. I hear alot of reasoned arguments answered by that 30% with outrageous bias.

Regarding anyone who aligns themselves with Donnies rhetoric. I dont deny there are immigration issues all over the world but to talk of an 'invasion' and 'infestation' I dont think reasonable people align themselves with such views.

[arista]

1159096708028149761


Yes he loves talking before he Fly's off
to meet the Mayor in El Paso. today.

[Twosugars]

Don't call rapists, rapists said the concerned citizen; they won't realise rape is wrong if you call them out for rape.

Not rapists, but people with non-consensual sex preference. We mustn't forgo a reasoned dialogue :laugh:

[bots]

In your first sentence you are kind of agreeing with TS that the 30% wont hear reasoned arguments. Define 'reasoned argument' please cuz I'm not sure what you mean. I hear alot of reasoned arguments answered by that 30% with outrageous bias.

Regarding anyone who aligns themselves with Donnies rhetoric. I dont deny there are immigration issues all over the world but to talk of an 'invasion' and 'infestation' I dont think reasonable people align themselves with such views.

Lets start with the fact that bigot is a very generalised insult. It's not a term of endearment. The moment it is used it forces people to say no he is not or yes he is ... it polarising.

If an undecided voter agrees with anything that "the bigot" says, then he is by association a bigot and becomes equally offended. That's how Trump gets voters

Trump uses terms like infestation and invasion because he knows it triggers the dems and makes them come back with ... you racist bas ... polarising .... because at the end of the day, there is an immigration problem, everyone knows it .... everyone knows something needs to be done .... but here are the dems calling Trump a racist bas for suggesting it

Everything Trump does is planned to divide and polarise ... and with the exception of one or two like Nancy, he gets them every time.

[Tom4784]

Sometimes a spade is a spade and calling it any different doesn't help anyone.

[GiRTh]

Lets start with the fact that bigot is a very generalised insult. It's not a term of endearment. The moment it is used it forces people to say no he is not or yes he is ... it polarising.

If an undecided voter agrees with anything that "the bigot" says, then he is by association a bigot and becomes equally offended. That's how Trump gets voters

Trump uses terms like infestation and invasion because he knows it triggers the dems and makes them come back with ... you racist bas ... polarising .... because at the end of the day, there is an immigration problem, everyone knows it .... everyone knows something needs to be done .... but here are the dems calling Trump a racist bas for suggesting it

Everything Trump does is planned to divide and polarise ... and with the exception of one or two like Nancy, he gets them every time.This makes a bunch of assumptions. Are you talking specifically about Donnies immigration views? I agree with Trump on some issues - like draining the swamp and the ineffectiveness of congress - but its his rhetoric and bear baiting that disgusts me. I dont expect to be called a bigot for that and I dont think anyone has.

His views on immigration are indeed deliberately polarizing, I agree, He knows exactly what he's doing and he's stepping it up at the moment. I think if anyone aligns themselves with this disgusting way of describing people then questions need to asked. The name calling is too much but questions definitely need to be asked.

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes he loves talking before he Fly's off
to meet the Mayor in El Paso. today.

So going back to your point that he had changed his views, does that seem as though he's been in a mode of self reflection since the shootings?

[Beso]

Its surely a factor of everything..

Maybe not this shooting, but certainly other mass killings can have the problems of these violent games on a young mind at the forefront of its cause..


Trump's language before this event has been somewhat misguided and unfortunate but the left has jumped on this and trumps words for thier own gain..trump says infestation...the left, on all news outlets I've been watching have used that word "infestation" and added other words like cockroaches etc to make trump look disgusting..

I don't think of cockroaches when I hear that word..I think of mice or nettles in the garden..

So in summary, I do believe that violent games and indeed the Internet can have a very negative and sometimes damaging effect on a young brain..and even more so on a young brain already struggling with other things.

[Vicky.]

I do agree that bigot is very very overused currently. Seems to be shouted at anyone who has a different view to the 'accepted leftie one'. I say this as a leftie myself too..but yeah. Have seen many instances of bigot being used for no reason other than to shut down someones opinion. Oddly enough, some of those shouting bigot are actually bigots themselves..if we go by the 'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions' definition.

[Beso]

I do agree that bigot is very very overused currently. Seems to be shouted at anyone who has a different view to the 'accepted leftie one'. I say this as a leftie myself too..but yeah. Have seen many instances of bigot being used for no reason other than to shut down someones opinion. Oddly enough, some of those shouting bigot are actually bigots themselves..if we go by the 'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions' definition.



Surprised you're a lefty...some of the violence and intoletance you have described yourself doing on here sounds more right wing than left, if that's whats to be believed of the left and right in the various acusations that are flung from side to side that is.

[Vicky.]

Surprised you're a lefty...some of the violence and intoletance you have described yourself doing on here sounds more right wing than left, if that's whats to be believed of the left and right in the various acusations that are flung from side to side that is.

You equate violence with right wing? I wouldn't. Far right maybe, not right in general.

I am probably quite centre overall, but lean more left than anything else. Tbh, my views are all over the place, but tend to be more aligning with the left wing than right :joker:

Would also be interested in what violence and intolerance you are talking about? :p

[Beso]

You equate violence with right wing? I wouldn't. Far right maybe, not right in general.

I am probably quite centre overall, but lean more left than anything else. Tbh, my views are all over the place, but tend to be more aligning with the left wing than right :joker:

I don't. ..but it can't be denied that many many people do.


All those stories about you fighting and arguing with people in the past led me to believe what I posted.

[Vicky.]

Ha. I can be argumentative sure. But I still tend to align mainly with the left wing. Been distancing myself purposely recently though, as I disagree with how things seem to be going..waaaaay too polarised for me and just screaming 'bigot' at someone with a diffrent opinion really doesn't work for me tbh.

[Twosugars]

Trump is a bigot :)








And a racist and white supremacist

[Vicky.]

Trump is a bigot :)








And a racist and white supremacist
I do agree with this though :p

Sometimes it does need to be said, and is fairly obvious :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Trump is a bigot :)








And a racist and white supremacist

And sexist :hee:

[Twosugars]

I do agree with this though :p

Sometimes it does need to be said, and is fairly obvious :laugh:

And sexist :hee:

:thumbs:

And a big orange liar and cheat, draft-dodger and rapist (according to Ivana and others)

[Beso]

He may be one of those words described but it cant be denied that his balls have straddled the entire world since his presidency.

[Twosugars]

He may be one of those words described but it cant be denied that his balls have straddled the entire world since his presidency.

:laugh: and yet the fat little rocket man is back to testing missiles

[Beso]

:laugh: and yet the fat little rocket man is back to testing missiles

For donald obviously...When Russia, Germany, China and Poland come a knocking.

[arista]

:laugh: and yet the fat little rocket man is back to testing missiles



That because South Korea /USA is doing Military Tests,
and those missiles North Korea fired
were short range in the sea.


Before he met Trump
NK was firing over Japan.

[The Slim Reaper]

That because South Korea /USA is doing Military Tests,
and those missiles North Korea fired
were short range in the sea.


Before he met Trump
NK was firing over Japan.

...when people defend and rationalise the actions of the NK dictator to preserve their love for Trump.

[Twosugars]

...when people defend and rationalise the actions of the NK dictator to preserve their love for Trump.

:laugh:

I'm no longer surprised so many in germany found ways to excuse hitler
As we've seen with trump his supporters are blind to anything that is wrong with him

[Nicky91]

Trump is an ace at reality tv, his celeb apprentice series had many a-lister celebs

so he can be more suited to presidency of reality tv, rather than president of the free world (and yes that is the name for america too)

[Kizzy]

Lets start with the fact that bigot is a very generalised insult. It's not a term of endearment. The moment it is used it forces people to say no he is not or yes he is ... it polarising.

If an undecided voter agrees with anything that "the bigot" says, then he is by association a bigot and becomes equally offended. That's how Trump gets voters

Trump uses terms like infestation and invasion because he knows it triggers the dems and makes them come back with ... you racist bas ... polarising .... because at the end of the day, there is an immigration problem, everyone knows it .... everyone knows something needs to be done .... but here are the dems calling Trump a racist bas for suggesting it

Everything Trump does is planned to divide and polarise ... and with the exception of one or two like Nancy, he gets them every time.

It's not a generalised term, like every other word it has a specific dictionary definition.
Of course nobody is going to like being accused of being a bigot.. but if you say bigoted things then why is it wrong to highlight that? It appears to me that you would have to be very thin skinned not to even attempt to acknowledge that, why is it 'polarising'?
I think you're wrong he doesn't use those words to trigger dems... he does it to sit seeds of division,it dehumanises whichever group you want to alienate. ..the Nazis did it very effectively.
Nobody is calling Trump for making a point about immigration, which he could legitimately do, however it HIS use of polarising language and rhetoric that us causing untold damage as his words as president are very powerful. Instead of tempering his language to reflect his diplomatic status he insists on being inflammatory. As you say he lives to divide and polarise are they the actions of a right, fair and just president?

[Gstar]

I don't understand how he hasn't been assassinated yet

[Beso]

I don't understand how he hasn't been assassinated yet

Can't be arsed to report you but I've just had a month off for wishing death on Jeremy corbyn....


I would laugh normally but this place has turned me spiteful regarding reporting.

[Twosugars]

Two leading Democratic presidential candidates – Elizabeth Warren and Beto O’Rourke – have said in separate interviews that they consider Donald Trump to be a white supremacist.

Asked whether she considered the president to be a white supremacist, Warren on Wednesday offered an unequivocal “Yes”, the New York Times reported.

“He has given aid and comfort to white supremacists,” the Massachusetts senator and 2020 runner said. “He’s done the wink and a nod. He has talked about white supremacists as fine people. He’s done everything he can to stir up racial conflict and hatred in this country.”

Earlier in the day, O’Rourke, the former congressman for the El Paso district, who has spoken out strongly about the president’s track record of using racist rhetoric, went a step further.

When he was asked directly about whether Trump was a white supremacist, in an MSNBC TV interview, he replied without hesitation: “He is.”


The Guardian

[Gstar]

Can't be arsed to report you but I've just had a month off for wishing death on Jeremy corbyn....


I would laugh normally but this place has turned me spiteful regarding reporting.

I didn't wish death I just thought he would be seeing as the whole world absolutely hate him, and a president has been assassinated before

[Twosugars]

https://i.imgur.com/rWDRC0Ul.jpg