What's Racism?

[BabyDollBeauty]

Going back to the whole racism thing over the emily issue and her saying the "N word" they made a big deal out of it but charley also said the "N word" , when she did that it was basically confirming that it was okay to say that. How is it racially offencive if emily (another race) said that and okay charley saying it??

[sol]

Precisely my feeling's over the issue ^

[Cody™]

not this again... :whistle:

[BabyDollBeauty]

Originally posted by Cody™
not this again... :whistle:

racism isnt just an issue in the house its worldwide thing and i think addressing it will allow us to have a better understanding than being so ignorant

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty
Going back to the whole racism thing over the emily issue and her saying the "N word" they made a big deal out of it but charley also said the "N word" , when she did that it was basically confirming that it was okay to say that. How is it racially offencive if emily (another race) said that and okay charley saying it??

If you call a white person the (N) word, it is not offensive to a white person, as the (N) word doesn't have the same meaning in that respect.

The (N) word comes from the word:- "Negro" a black person.

As Charley is a black person, it works differently.

Endemol, (that's the people behind Big Brother) have good advisors & solicitors who know the law & the decision was to throw out Emily, as she said the word to Charley & keep Charley in, "even though she repeated the word."





nodisharmony :angel:

[BabyDollBeauty]

It doesnt make sense to me , if its meant to be an "INSULT" and having the black people say it such as charley and laugh about it and also in rap songs, they are basically confirming that it was okay. I am not defending emily or anything, i am juss wonderin why is it okay for a black person to call each other by the N word and not okay for a white person to say the N word.

Why not stop using this word...full stop!

[DavinaRocks]

Welcome to last week.

[James]

You can't offend yourself by calling yourself something but you can offend other people by calling themselves something.

Basically, if you call yourself a derogatory term it is seen as 'self-deprecating' (and to make fun of yourself is usually seen as a positive quality). If you call someone else a derogatory term you are putting him or her down without their consent and it is just derogatory.

[Wiglet]

It is a different word.

One is an adjective one is a noun.

Research some old threads to look this up as I doubt those who have spent a lot of time explaining it numerous times already want to keep doing it (no offence.)

[BabyDollBeauty]

Originally posted by DavinaRocks
Welcome to last week.

oh.. welcome to ignorance...

have u not ralized lesley is OUT!


and...dont make me steal you banner! :thumbs2:

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty

Why not stop using this word...full stop!

Charley chose to repeat the (N) word which Emily said to Charley. Even though Emily said that she didn't mean it in a bad way or anything.

I feel personally, that Channel 4 should have made Endemol bleep out the word, instead of showing the full un-cut footage, which contained the (N) word.

That is very bad!!

It makes many people think that it is acceptable to say the (N) word.





nodisharmony :angel:

[ShadowEye]

To the people who say "it's okay to say it because she's black", do you not realise that such an atitude in itself is racist? Charley said it a week before Emily too, she admitted that, so the "she was just repeating what Emily said" argument is redundant.

Rasism is the act of descriminating or holding prejudice against someone based on their ethnicity. To say someone can't say something because they aren't black is quite frankly bulls**t! There can be none of this "oh its okay because..." either no one can say it, or everyone can. End of story.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by ShadowEye
To the people who say "it's okay to say it because she's black", do you not realise that such an atitude in itself is racist?

Rasism is the act of descriminating or holding prejudice against someone based on their ethnicity. To say someone can't say something because they aren't black is quite frankly bulls**t! There can be none of this "oh its okay because..." either no one can say it, or everyone can. End of story.

and what about the laws concerning the (N) word?

What about Channel 4 allowing the (N) word to be aired?






nodisharmony :angel:

[.james.]

Originally posted by James
You can't offend yourself by calling yourself something but you can offend other people by calling themselves something.

Basically, if you call yourself a derogatory term it is seen as 'self-deprecating' (and to make fun of yourself is usually seen as a positive quality). If you call someone else a derogatory term you are putting him or her down without their consent and it is just derogatory.

here here!

[Cody™]

Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty
Originally posted by Cody™
not this again... :whistle:

racism isnt just an issue in the house its worldwide thing and i think addressing it will allow us to have a better understanding than being so ignorant

well if ur talkin about racism in terms of a worldwide issue then this is the wrong forum to do so. if ur talkin about charley repeating the word, then this topic has been repeated already several times.

[sol]

Originally posted by James
You can't offend yourself by calling yourself something but you can offend other people by calling themselves something.

Basically, if you call yourself a derogatory term it is seen as 'self-deprecating' (and to make fun of yourself is usually seen as a positive quality). If you call someone else a derogatory term you are putting him or her down without their consent and it is just derogatory.

Point taken, but will the people watching the show be able to differentiate between the two meanings?
Many people will assume that because Charley was not punished that the use of the word is somewhat acceptable within society, whatever your race may be.

[GiRTh]

This should be in the serious debates topic.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Cody™


well if ur talkin about racism in terms of a worldwide issue then this is the wrong forum to do so. if ur talkin about charley repeating the word, then this topic has been repeated already several times.

The Thread exists Cody, leave it at that.

BabyDollBeauty asked a civil question & anyone who wishes to help her, will help her.





nodisharmony :angel:

[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty
Going back to the whole racism thing over the emily issue and her saying the "N word" they made a big deal out of it but charley also said the "N word" , when she did that it was basically confirming that it was okay to say that. How is it racially offencive if emily (another race) said that and okay charley saying it??

It's a case of 'double standards' craftily employed by Endemol to win shallow favour with the public after they handled Celebrity Big Brother 5 badly.

The word 'n*****' is not racist. A parrot could say the word. It could be a baby's first word. A word alone is not 'racist'.

HOWEVER

The word 'n*****' is very offensive to alot of people. Particularly offensive to people of black origin because it's a word used originally to insult their ancestors.

Emily Parr was thrown out of the Big Brother house for causing offence, but this incident bears no real significance to the race debate as a whole in general society, apart from the fact it's causing a bit of confusion. Racism is about feelings and opinions, not 6-letter two-cyllabled words.

[sunlight]

i think everyone forgets it's not just black people that do it some gay people call each other q**** and p**f some asians call each other p***. i have heard asian people do it been half asian. and in america some white people say white t****. the difference is african-american music is very popular. that why you hear it alot.

[MR.K!]

why do we continue with the race thingy....... CASE CLOSED !!!!!

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by sunlight
i think everyone forgets it's not just black people that do it some gay people call each other q**** and p**f some asians call each other p***. i have heard asian people do it been half asian. and in america some white people say white t****. the difference is african-american music is very popular. that why you hear it alot.

If they do call each other those words you mentioned, will they be offended?

If you are a Gay person & you know another Gay person and you call them a Qu**r, will they mind?

That is the real question?

and if someone doesn't like it, they can try & make a complaint. That is their right.

Doesn't change anything....






nodisharmony :angel:

[vesavius]

Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty
Going back to the whole racism thing over the emily issue and her saying the "N word" they made a big deal out of it but charley also said the "N word" , when she did that it was basically confirming that it was okay to say that. How is it racially offencive if emily (another race) said that and okay charley saying it??

Whats racism?

One word: INTENT

No word is by definition racist, it is only the use to which it is put, that is the intention behind it, that is racist.

If a black guy has a white friend and they call each other the 'N Word' (not using it here due to forum rules), then thats fine because they know each other's intent.

If a stranger, or a newly met 'friend' as in Emily's case, uses the 'N Word', it is obviously unwise because the intent is unclear and uncertain.

If one uses the 'N Word' with hate and malice, then of course the intent to harm and offend is clear.

In all three cases, the word is the same, only the intention behind it changes...

So, is a given word 'racist' and should it be banned?

No.

Just because a racist isnt allowed to use a certain word, it dosent stop them being a racist. Ignorant hate dosent need to use certain words to do damage.

May I just say that the people that carry on the 'sins of our fathers' thing with regards to 'slave words' or whatever to use as an excuse to be offended are as bad as those that use certain words out of hate. These are the people that carry the hate forward to the new generation, unwilling and unable to recognise a new chance for a new start where history is learnt from and then left behind. Like a gun, words are neutral until used.

Obviously all just how I see things though :spin2:

[sunlight]

Originally posted by nodisharmony
Originally posted by sunlight
i think everyone forgets it's not just black people that do it some gay people call each other q**** and p**f some asians call each other p***. i have heard asian people do it been half asian. and in america some white people say white t****. the difference is african-american music is very popular. that why you hear it alot.

If they do call each other those words you mentioned, will they be offended?

If you are a Gay person & you know another Gay person and you call them a Qu**r, will they mind?

That is the real question?

and if someone doesn't like it, they can try & make a complaint. That is their right.

Doesn't change anything....

i think common sense tells you not to say any of these words to someone of a different race of sexuality. and with me i wouldn't use it at all.





nodisharmony :angel:

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by sunlight


i think common sense tells you not to say any of these words to someone of a different race of sexuality. and with me i wouldn't use it at all.




I agree that a straight person shouldn't call a gay person a qu**r, that may be offensive.

But, if a gay person calls another gay person that word,

(in law),( it is different ), (or is it??)

Trying to work out all of this and giving examples of what should be said & what shouldn't be said & looking at Emily & Charley & Jade, Jo & Danielle will still not answer any of your questions.

Everything comes down to "surroundings"

In the BB house, it is different to what it is in forum, in a pub or a restaurant will be different. The school playground, I can go on.

The surroundings in which it is said & who is saying it, it all makes a big difference.






nodisharmony :angel:

[Shaun]

Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty
Originally posted by Cody™
not this again... :whistle:

racism isnt just an issue in the house its worldwide thing and i think addressing it will allow us to have a better understanding than being so ignorant

Yes, and this is a forum about Big Brother. Take this to the "Serious Debate" board, please, this is getting tedious.

[rororo06]

Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty
Going back to the whole racism thing over the emily issue and her saying the "N word" they made a big deal out of it but charley also said the "N word" , when she did that it was basically confirming that it was okay to say that. How is it racially offencive if emily (another race) said that and okay charley saying it??


Because there is a difference between calling someone else a ****** and calling yourself a ****** that is a simple fact of life

[Dr43%er]

"The (N) word comes from the word:- "Negro" a black person."

No it's not. Negro. It is the the Portuguese word for black, the colour. "N"-word is a bastardisation of that word, and it only came in to use as the word for black people when the slave trade kicked off with the help of the Portuguese.

With regards to people calling each other by the names ,"n" word, "p" word and the like, then that is acceptable if there is no offence meant or taken.
The one thing people who seem to think it is ok to say it, is that Jackson could say "white piece of trash" like it absolves every racist remark ever made. The fact is you found it offensive or you would not have brought it up. So, It is ok for you to be offended, but not "n" 's and "p" 's ?

[bbmum]

I'm just going to throw this out there, and hope you'll still read this...I'm from the States; we are, among other things, notoriously known for national division over slavery at one point, and also for producing many rappers that use the word n*gga in their lyrics. However, it is widely accepted here that it's only acceptable for black rappers and people to use this word. white/or other colored-skin rappers stay away from it. It's a cultural thing, not applying only to the States. The usual reason is this: N*gger is notorious as an insult towards dark-skinned people, and much like the use of B*tch toward females, or any other derogatory term toward the people that it's normally aimed towards, people of these social groups use these terms amongst themselves as a way of taking away the power of these words to hurt. But that IS ONLY when used between people who would be called these words. When any of these terms come from anyone else, the meaning is called into question, as you can't know what that person may really mean by it. Hence, the reason why Eminem may call every other situation in life by very 'offensive' words, but you won't hear him EVER say N*gg*r. It's a matter of respect that you don't call someone else a name unless you could be in that catagory as well....I don't know why, it's just a matter of respect. And out of respect, I don't use terms that I don't know how everyone that could be affected by them would feel. I hope that makes some kind of sense.
In some cases, it's not how you mean it, it's how other people hear it and feel about it. Especially when you're talking about terms to describe a down-trodden (or previously oppressed) people.
Sooo.........whoo...enough, that's my serious piece, don't make me do that again! I'm here to enjoy. Peace.

[Dr43%er]

Top post.

[natjake2504]

i would just like to say something on this. Not a big emily fan but she did not say that in a racist way she just got caught up in the moment ans said as if a black person would say to another. As big brother have kicked her out they should kick charley out as well as she said the same word a couple of times so why is alright for her to say and not emily.

Last year with shilpa was racist but this wasnt

[001steven]

Originally posted by nodisharmony
Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty

Why not stop using this word...full stop!

Charley chose to repeat the (N) word which Emily said to Charley. Even though Emily said that she didn't mean it in a bad way or anything.

I feel personally, that Channel 4 should have made Endemol bleep out the word, instead of showing the full un-cut footage, which contained the (N) word.

That is very bad!!

It makes many people think that it is acceptable to say the (N) word.





nodisharmony :angel:


then BB would of been told off off by ofcom or something for hidieng the footage like CBB im glad it got shown to clear it up as i have said Emily DIDNT mean it in an offensive it WAS Charley who thought ' i can get her out now' IMO and MILKED the race card BIG time she could od easily said oh forget about it but she didnt she carried it on untill her plan worked. charley is jusyt as guilty.

[natjake2504]

oh yeah charley defo milked it and then to top it off she was try nicky to milk

come charley do yourself a favor

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by bbmum
I'm just going to throw this out there, and hope you'll still read this...I'm from the States; we are, among other things, notoriously known for national division over slavery at one point, and also for producing many rappers that use the word n*gga in their lyrics. However, it is widely accepted here that it's only acceptable for black rappers and people to use this word. white/or other colored-skin rappers stay away from it. It's a cultural thing, not applying only to the States. The usual reason is this: N*gger is notorious as an insult towards dark-skinned people, and much like the use of B*tch toward females, or any other derogatory term toward the people that it's normally aimed towards, people of these social groups use these terms amongst themselves as a way of taking away the power of these words to hurt. But that IS ONLY when used between people who would be called these words. When any of these terms come from anyone else, the meaning is called into question, as you can't know what that person may really mean by it. Hence, the reason why Eminem may call every other situation in life by very 'offensive' words, but you won't hear him EVER say N*gg*r. It's a matter of respect that you don't call someone else a name unless you could be in that catagory as well....I don't know why, it's just a matter of respect. And out of respect, I don't use terms that I don't know how everyone that could be affected by them would feel. I hope that makes some kind of sense.
In some cases, it's not how you mean it, it's how other people hear it and feel about it. Especially when you're talking about terms to describe a down-trodden (or previously oppressed) people.
Sooo.........whoo...enough, that's my serious piece, don't make me do that again! I'm here to enjoy. Peace. Great post. Top drawer. I am British but of West Indian ancestry and I couldn't have said it better my self. Postivie Karma to BBmum.:thumbs:

[Dan_]

Originally posted by natalia2504
i would just like to say something on this. Not a big emily fan but she did not say that in a racist way she just got caught up in the moment ans said as if a black person would say to another. As big brother have kicked her out they should kick charley out as well as she said the same word a couple of times so why is alright for her to say and not emily.

Last year with shilpa was racist but this wasnt

Imagine if one white person said to another white person in the house oh you white bastard or you honky, do you think there would be calls for that person to be kicked out? I know it's not overly likely to happen but just say someone even just repeated a term like honky.

[spitfire]

I think its a bit racist to say only one race can use a certain word.

[001steven]

Is everyone forgetting that charley called emily 'Chalky' :mad:

[Wiglet]

I've asked a couple of times but when people state certain words have been used I would like to see the evidence to back it up?

I know Emily said what she did because there is proof of that but Charley is being accused of saying all sorts and there has to be evidence to back it up?

Any you tubes etc? Just asking?

[001steven]

its not fair though she called her chalky

[Wiglet]

When did Charley say that word?

I forgive whoever for nicking my karma over me posting this btw.:banana:

[001steven]

she said it some time ago before emily called her that word

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by 001steven
Originally posted by nodisharmony
Originally posted by BabyDollBeauty

Why not stop using this word...full stop!

Charley chose to repeat the (N) word which Emily said to Charley. Even though Emily said that she didn't mean it in a bad way or anything.

I feel personally, that Channel 4 should have made Endemol bleep out the word, instead of showing the full un-cut footage, which contained the (N) word.

That is very bad!!

It makes many people think that it is acceptable to say the (N) word.





nodisharmony :angel:


then BB would of been told off off by ofcom or something for hidieng the footage like CBB Im glad it got shown to clear it up as i have said Emily DIDNT mean it in an offensive it WAS Charley who thought ' i can get her out now' IMO and MILKED the race card BIG time she could od easily said oh forget about it but she didnt she carried it on untill her plan worked. charley is jusyt as guilty.

I understand what you say 001steven.

But I am afraid that Endemol still had the right to edit out the word, or even the whole conversation & remove Emily for saying the word.

Ofcom would accept that judgement, which is within the law.

The decision to show the un-cut footage was a bad move & makes the (N) word seem acceptable.

The reason I say that, is, that viewers watching will hear the girls say the (N) word numurously & many may repeat the (N) word in the real world. "Children at school. let's say"

It was irresponsible.
_______________________________________
The decision regarding Charley staying in has been made by Endemol.

Nothing in the world will reverse that decision & all angles have been covered, which could be ever covered regarding this matter.

It is unfortunate for Emily & I feel sorry for her.






nodisharmony :angel:

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Dr43%er
"The (N) word comes from the word:- "Negro" a black person."

No it's not. Negro. It is the the Portuguese word for black, the colour. "N"-word is a bastardisation of that word, and it only came in to use as the word for black people when the slave trade kicked off with the help of the Portuguese.

So you are very aware of exactly what it means Dr43%er:rolleyes:

That is lucky......

Now let's use 900 out of 1000 people as an example.

Ask 1000 people & say, "Does the (N) word come from the word (Negro)"

See what obviously happens:wink:

I would say they would say (Yes), regardless of the above explaination:rolleyes:

With regards to people calling each other by the names ,"n" word, "p" word and the like, then that is acceptable if there is no offence meant or taken.

Like debating what the word's mean, within a forum, in a thread, titled:- "What's Racism?", or something-somewhere-else.

The one thing people who seem to think it is ok to say it, is that Jackson could say "white piece of trash" like it absolves every racist remark ever made.

I would say that they are both racist remarks, but sometimes, (90% of the time), more than likely, will be viewed differently:rolleyes:

I didn't see Jermaine Jackson get chants like:- "Get Jermaine OUT!!!"

Does the 90% have something to do with it??

The 90% being, the majority who would complain about Jade, Jo & Danielle + Emily, but, but, but, the Jermaine incident was so mild, it was almost criminal & very unfair indeed!

The fact is you found it offensive or you would not have brought it up. So, It is ok for you to be offended, but not "n" 's and "p" 's ?

If someone walks up to me & says, "White Tr**h", it won't offend me, as I am personally (un-offended), but, if I saw two people:- A white person & A non-white person saying racist comments to each other, but the white person was prosecuted & the non-white person was let-off, I would call that "unfair"
______________________________________

I don't recall saying that comment Dr43%er:rolleyes:

I have said White, Black, Non-White, but NOT the way you have described it in your last sentance & how you refer to a Black person & a Pakistani person.

It almost looks like you are back to your old ways?

But, I shall excuse you & will assume that you worded it wrongly on THIS occasion, unless you are implying something sinister??

But why that:rolleyes:







nodisharmony :angel:

[Dr43%er]

"So you are very aware of exactly what it means Dr43%er:rolleyes:

That is lucky......

Now let's use 900 out of 1000 people as an example.

Ask 1000 people & say, "Does the (N) word come from the word (Negro)"

See what obviously happens:wink:

I would say they would say (Yes), regardless of the above explaination"

Just because 900 of your 1000 sample does not know the meaning and roots of the word does not mean it is so. You made a statement that was incorrect. I corrected it.

[spitfire]

Did anyone see trevor macdonald on tv the other night. Calling bernard manning a white fat bast**d ?

Why arnt there people condeming him ???

Oh I forgot..double standards !!!!!!

[rex3]

Originally posted by spitfire
Did anyone see trevor macdonald on tv the other night. Calling bernard manning a white fat bast**d ?

Why arnt there people condeming him ???

Oh I forgot..double standards !!!!!!

Racism is just when people think there better than others.

When emily said it and Trevor, they werent both thinking of hatred or superiority. Racism equals Ignorant and insecure people.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by rex3
Originally posted by spitfire
Did anyone see trevor macdonald on tv the other night. Calling bernard manning a white fat bast**d ?

Why arnt there people condeming him ???

Oh I forgot..double standards !!!!!!

Racism is just when people think there better than others.
So me thinking im better than my brother makes me brotherist?

[rex3]

Originally posted by spitfire
Originally posted by rex3
Originally posted by spitfire
Did anyone see trevor macdonald on tv the other night. Calling bernard manning a white fat bast**d ?

Why arnt there people condeming him ???

Oh I forgot..double standards !!!!!!

Racism is just when people think there better than others.
So me thinking Im better than my brother makes me brotherist?

funny how you didnt invclude the point i made in the quote.

but anyway what are you on about, Brotherist. it proves my point lol.

[rex3]

Why has this been moved to the BB8 forum from the serious debates forums

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by rex3
Why has this been moved to the BB8 forum from the serious debates forums

It's bounced back rex3:thumbs:

It is serious, so it belongs in that place.







nodisharmony :angel: