View Full Version : The Grenfell inquiry..phase one 1000 page document released to victims families.
But they had to sign a non disclosure before they were allowed the documents..
Cherie
29-10-2019, 12:31 PM
Blame being put on the firefighters with regard to the stay put policy
The conclusion of the report: More lives could have been saved if the Tower had been evacuated sooner
The correct conclusion
All lives would have been saved if the illegal cladding wasn't on the building
Cherie
29-10-2019, 12:37 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/grenfell-inquiry-finds-fire-brigade-gravely-ill-prepared-for-blaze/ar-AAJuXhN?ocid=spartandhp
:bored:
he London fire brigade’s readiness for the Grenfell Tower fire was “gravely inadequate” and fewer people would have died if it had been better prepared, a long-awaited public inquiry report into the disaster that killed 72 people has concluded.
The report into the biggest single loss of life in London since the second world war also ruled that the building had been refurbished in breach of safety regulations and that contrary to the evidence so far of the cladding panel manufacturer, Arconic, “the principal reason why the flames spread so rapidly up the building” was its aluminium composite panels and the “melting and dripping of burning polyethylene”.
why would they be prepared for illegal cladding?
arista
29-10-2019, 12:44 PM
Yes the Lady Fire Chief
is standing down
She should have told them all to leave
Blame being put on the firefighters with regard to the stay put policy
The conclusion of the report: More lives could have been saved if the Tower had been evacuated sooner
The correct conclusion
All lives would have been saved if the illegal cladding wasn't on the building
That is phase 2 of the report...phase 1 was only about the events on the night.
Which are not looking good for the London fire brigade.
Cherie
29-10-2019, 12:59 PM
That is phase 2 of the report...phase 1 was only about the events on the night.
Which are not looking good for the London fire brigade.
If you have ever had anything done to your house vis a vis an extension or such like, building regs are so tight around firedoors, fireproof this, fireproof that, smoke detectors on all levels that have to be linked into the wiring system and backed up with a battery, in all seriousness how on earth would they have known the cladding would be flammable?
yes maybe they should have evacuated earlier but their policy is to stay put due to the building construction....and I assume like everyone else they would have assumed cladding was to a legal requirement
its not down to the fire brigade that the smoke detectors, were not working and that there was only one way out.... all of which the residents had highlighted with the management company for years previously
The Slim Reaper
29-10-2019, 02:02 PM
If you have ever had anything done to your house vis a vis an extension or such like, building regs are so tight around firedoors, fireproof this, fireproof that, smoke detectors on all levels that have to be linked into the wiring system and backed up with a battery, in all seriousness how on earth would they have known the cladding would be flammable?
yes maybe they should have evacuated earlier but their policy is to stay put due to the building construction....and I assume like everyone else they would have assumed cladding was to a legal requirement
its not down to the fire brigade that the smoke detectors, were not working and that there was only one way out.... all of which the residents had highlighted with the management company for years previously
3qyYIPtigAw
The Slim Reaper
29-10-2019, 02:07 PM
ztUamrChczQ
SQplVg9vE0I
Niamh.
29-10-2019, 02:09 PM
Blame being put on the firefighters with regard to the stay put policy
The conclusion of the report: More lives could have been saved if the Tower had been evacuated sooner
The correct conclusion
All lives would have been saved if the illegal cladding wasn't on the building
In a nutshell, disgraceful how they're trying to blame the fire service who were no doubt only following procedure for a building that should have been up to standard
The Slim Reaper
29-10-2019, 02:31 PM
1189132853239525382
user104658
29-10-2019, 02:38 PM
1189132853239525382
Confused about the content of that tweet. The tweet says that the council asked the assessor to bury the report... the linked article says that the assessor advised the council that they could bury the report.
"Mr Stokes advised the organisation that they did not have to disclose safety risks and risk being obliged to deploy expensive “additional fire safety measures”, the Mail on Sunday reported."
The Slim Reaper
29-10-2019, 05:14 PM
Confused about the content of that tweet. The tweet says that the council asked the assessor to bury the report... the linked article says that the assessor advised the council that they could bury the report.
"Mr Stokes advised the organisation that they did not have to disclose safety risks and risk being obliged to deploy expensive “additional fire safety measures”, the Mail on Sunday reported."
I posted it for the article not the tweet, so I'd take the info from there.
Cherie
30-10-2019, 09:48 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/grenfell-inquiry-accused-of-focusing-on-junior-firefighters/ar-AAJwxAj?ocid=spartanntp
Firefighters have accused the Grenfell Tower public inquiry of injustice by focusing on the shortcomings of rank and file officers while failing to scrutinise those in power, including the prime minister, Boris Johnson, who oversaw firefighting in London for eight years as mayor.
Matt Wrack, the general secretary of the Fire Brigades Union, said on Tuesday that it was “unfair and unjust” that firefighters were being publicly scrutinised in the long-awaited report being published this week, while political leaders were not.
Johnson said on Tuesday night that the report revealed “the truth about what happened at Grenfell tower on 14 June 2017”, and would bring comfort “to those who suffered so much”.
Niamh.
30-10-2019, 09:52 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/grenfell-inquiry-accused-of-focusing-on-junior-firefighters/ar-AAJwxAj?ocid=spartanntp
Firefighters have accused the Grenfell Tower public inquiry of injustice by focusing on the shortcomings of rank and file officers while failing to scrutinise those in power, including the prime minister, Boris Johnson, who oversaw firefighting in London for eight years as mayor.
Matt Wrack, the general secretary of the Fire Brigades Union, said on Tuesday that it was “unfair and unjust” that firefighters were being publicly scrutinised in the long-awaited report being published this week, while political leaders were not.
Johnson said on Tuesday night that the report revealed “the truth about what happened at Grenfell tower on 14 June 2017”, and would bring comfort “to those who suffered so much”.
I doubt that very much
Seems like a very corrupt report to me. I am sure there are many lessons to be learned by the emergency services, but that's the extent of the responsibility. As the name suggests, it is a service that is utilised once an emergency has occurred. It would be the same as if the fire fighters were blamed for 9/11
The Slim Reaper
30-10-2019, 01:05 PM
1189515646180188160
Liam-
30-10-2019, 01:10 PM
Cold blooded bastards, the lot of them.
I think it's unfair that the London fire brigade as a whole is coming under criticism, but the person in charge on the night obviously didn't understand fire...so how they got the job in the first place can only be put down to how they talk the talk..sadly, they couldn't walk the walk.
arista
30-10-2019, 07:55 PM
I think it's unfair that the London fire brigade as a whole is coming under criticism, but the person in charge on the night obviously didn't understand fire...so how they got the job in the first place can only be put down to how they talk the talk..sadly, they couldn't walk the walk.
Yes Bang On Right
they were not in the Loop.
The 999 people were not updated
not in the loop
Kazanne
30-10-2019, 08:42 PM
It's so unfair them blaming the Fire service when they were the ones that put their lives at risk,surely they should be targeting the council , lack of sprinklers , cheap cladding etc, the blame game will not bring anyone back but surely the people in charge of that building and it's upkeep should be culpable .
Kizzy
30-10-2019, 09:42 PM
I have no words... it's like a month python sketch in its preposterousness.
Who in their right mind given what we know of the errors in the refurbishment of grenfell and the concern of the residents in the weeks leading up to the fire would blam the fire service?!
Everyone I've spoke to has said the same. ..cover up.
I have no words... it's like a month python sketch in its preposterousness.
Who in their right mind given what we know of the errors in the refurbishment of grenfell and the concern of the residents in the weeks leading up to the fire would blam the fire service?!
Everyone I've spoke to has said the same. ..cover up.
Almost all the survivors are blaming the fire service I'm afraid.
Twosugars
30-10-2019, 11:10 PM
Stay put advice is counterintuitive tbf
...the thing is...the survivors and their families are not blaming the Fire Service, though...they’re rightfully looking at fault/blame being apportioned where it needs to be ...which obviously looks at the ‘stay put’ instruction of the Fire Service as well...but there is also frustration because the cladding and design of the building is a huge blame/fault in this ...but it’s going to be quite some time before that report is put together...the two parts of this report should surely have come together as a complete, which would complete the blame/faults that the survivors feel and have expressed...I can’t see why it couldn’t have been done that way...but this way has a long, long time to settle in the public thoughts that the Fire Service are at fault, before the full context of the report is revealed...my heart breaks for those firefighters of how intentionally divisive this seems to be...
Brother Leon
31-10-2019, 11:52 AM
Infuriating that the brave Men and Women who risked their lives that night are being thrown under the bus it seems. The people know the truth regardless. RBKC and The Tory party will forever have blood on their hands and they can try cover up their neglect whichever way they like, they can’t hide from the truth.
Niamh.
31-10-2019, 11:57 AM
Stay put advice is counterintuitive tbf
I would imagine it isn't if the building is up to regulation, which the fire service would naturally assume it was since it's a social housing building
Cherie
31-10-2019, 01:27 PM
If they really had to split the delivery of the report, and not sure why it was necessary, the report on the building, its condition, and what is was wrapped in should have come first, it was the building that caught fire
The Slim Reaper
31-10-2019, 01:36 PM
1139487656763633664
...I still find it incredible that part 2 of a two part report is released without any context of part 1 ..which couldn’t be more relevant to lead to the fire fighting...it’s like giving half the second half of a story and then having to wait around a year for the first half...?...I can’t see that it’s been done for any other reason than to plant the seeds of ‘fire service at blame..’...in the minds of the public...it’s quite despicable and extremely unfair...
One fire fighter amazed me last night..he was telling a story about going up to the 5th floor and having to turn back, as he was going back down the stairs he stood on 2 people and dragged them out saving them from certain death...the only thing he was bothered about was the fact he was tasked with going up to check a house on the 13th floor and didn't make it up to the 13th floor to save those people.
Kizzy
31-10-2019, 10:28 PM
Almost all the survivors are blaming the fire service I'm afraid.
Why though... all fire services have contingency plans to aid their preparedness, that sit and wait decision is a very common part of the response.
However seeing as the nature of the fire it didn't behave like an average high rise fire, but this can't have been known as the fire spread much more rapidly than it would ordinarily do.
I can't believe that the focus is on the fire service, Revolting!!
Why though... all fire services have contingency plans to aid their preparedness, that sit and wait decision is a very common part of the response.
However seeing as the nature of the fire it didn't behave like an average high rise fire, but this can't have been known as the fire spread much more rapidly than it would ordinarily do.
I can't believe that the focus is on the fire service, Revolting!!
You can't blame anyone else yet, this enquiry was about the events on the night...and I'm sorry to be blunt.....
But if you still tell people to remain in their house when you see that building going up like that from a safe distance..as firemen are reporting back to you that they can't reach the floor they were directed to go to because of certain things.....
Im sorry...but you have condemned those people to death, perhaps you may have known that if you said evacuate, you may have had another sort of catastrophe on your hands.
But sadly I would think most people were dead before a flame touched them..
And very goulishly, I think we should all be thankful to someone that the number wern'tt as high as the maths may assume...so on that basis, you got to imagine that some people just left the building as soon as they noticed. While others remained....
Infuriating that the brave Men and Women who risked their lives that night are being thrown under the bus it seems. The people know the truth regardless. RBKC and The Tory party will forever have blood on their hands and they can try cover up their neglect whichever way they like, they can’t hide from the truth.
Blame the torys all you want...but labour refuted looking into the stay put policy in the 2 tragedies before grenfell.
The Slim Reaper
05-11-2019, 10:05 AM
1191651035821101057
Liam-
05-11-2019, 10:46 AM
Jfc, he’s a foul creature ain’t he
1191651035821101057
Rather insensitive but he does have a point...Im pretty sure I would have been making my own way out no matter what I was told.
The Slim Reaper
05-11-2019, 11:07 AM
Rather insensitive but he does have a point...Im pretty sure I would have been making my own way out no matter what I was told.
The stairways were full of bodies because people did try and escape the building.
1191670257167085568
The stairways were full of bodies because people did try and escape the building.
1191670257167085568
293 people were in the building when the fire started...231 escaped..
Most victims were vapourised in thier rooms in temperatures reaching over 1000 degree.
Twosugars
05-11-2019, 11:46 AM
What a despicable creature mogg is
What about the old, children and disabled? What about those cut off by flames and confused by smoke?
Cherie
05-11-2019, 12:59 PM
What he failed to understand was this is a tower block with 30 floors if everyone stampeded out there could have been even more deaths, also the stairwell was full of smoke so if you were high up you could have died of smoke inhalation as many needed oxegen to get out alive.... yes of course if you were on the ground, first, second or third but as you got higher up, if you were infirm, disabled, had young kids..... absolute monster he is
arista
05-11-2019, 01:13 PM
Yes he has said
Sorry for what he stated on LBC.
The Slim Reaper
05-11-2019, 01:18 PM
Yes he has said
Sorry for what he stated on LBC.
He's sorry because he's been called out on it, not because what he said was inappropriate to say the least.
...isn't he fortunate that neither him or any of his family or loved ones had to live in a sub-standard building ...he’s despicable...
Kazanne
05-11-2019, 04:55 PM
Rather insensitive but he does have a point...Im pretty sure I would have been making my own way out no matter what I was told.
Well some of the reporting of this has been embellished as he didn't actually say those people "lacked" common sense ,infact I never heard him use that word at all, it was a thoughtless thing to say but don't think what was said ,was said maliciously as much as some people would like to paint it that way, he's apologised that's all he can do.
The Slim Reaper
05-11-2019, 05:01 PM
Well some of the reporting of this has been embellished as he didn't actually say those people "lacked" common sense ,infact I never heard him use that word at all, it was a thoughtless thing to say but don't think what was said ,was said maliciously as much as some people would like to paint it that way, he's apologised that's all he can do.
He said both he and Nick "would have left the building because it was the common sense thing to do"
arista
05-11-2019, 05:04 PM
He's sorry because he's been called out on it, not because what he said was inappropriate to say the least.
For sure
The Slim Reaper
05-11-2019, 05:43 PM
1191771395811938304
Kazanne
05-11-2019, 07:15 PM
He said both he and Nick "would have left the building because it was the common sense thing to do"
I know so why are the media making out he said the victims LACK common sense that is not what was said,this is why I never believe tabloids and media fodder.
Liam-
05-11-2019, 07:18 PM
I know so why are the media making out he said the victims LACK common sense that is not what was said,this is why I never believe tabloids and media fodder.
He said they would have gotten out because they’ve got common sense, therefore, the victims that didn’t get out, lacked common sense to get out, nothing is being twisted.
I know so why are the media making out he said the victims LACK common sense that is not what was said,this is why I never believe tabloids and media fodder.
I buy a sun on a Sunday to read with my fry up for a laugh, and that's it.
Obviously he wasn't meaning they were idiots, but it was grabbed by the media knowing the frenzied response it would recieve. ..thus using the memory of the dead themselves...
All its done for me is show how people are easily led..those easily led people judge the person first, rather than the subject.
They see a posh bloke in a suit, an easy target at some schools I would imagine, the population of this country at times to me, come across like schoolyard bullies who hate the person who looks different or thinks different.
Britain will never get back together due to this
He said they would have gotten out because they’ve got common sense, therefore, the victims that didn’t get out, lacked common sense to get out, nothing is being twisted.
What would your common sense have told you as you sat watching your building going up on the tv?
arista
06-11-2019, 12:10 AM
https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/wI7VrnV9iwnKKi_QOdjuaA/https/media.fyre.co/7hSzTdNETGCtWTbO2LhT_metro.PNG
https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/djXeOqG1HGPUa780E7nfNg/https/media.fyre.co/2cYYNbCOQN6CxsoHmtAw_guard.PNG
arista
06-11-2019, 12:13 AM
https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/tzRTvWm9Qv7H9ostQPAzew/https/media.fyre.co/pARMuPDXTnmw3DLtuTn5_thei.PNG
https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/oiK20Cv6SllnZagHXLzg0w/https/media.fyre.co/rVPKG30xRR2sZ79WOWsq_mirror.PNG
Twosugars
06-11-2019, 01:00 AM
No, dont ground him. Let him speak. We need to know how morally bankrupt he and his gang are.
Kizzy
06-11-2019, 09:44 AM
I'm loving this, the tide is turning no longer can tories get away with spreading bile... we won't tolerate it. For years we've been told that any tragedy that befalls us is our fault, Orgreave, Hillsborough and now Grenfell.
Sorry mogg it won't wash!
The Slim Reaper
16-11-2019, 03:45 PM
1195638281968504832
The Slim Reaper
16-11-2019, 03:50 PM
1195214876337201152
1195638281968504832
...is this the fire in the student flats yesterday...?...I think two people suffered injuries from what my newsfeed said...but I hadn’t seen that footage...looking at that, it could easily have been an entirely different outcome...terrifying images..
The Slim Reaper
16-11-2019, 03:55 PM
...is this the fire in the student flats yesterday...?...I think two people suffered injuries from what my newsfeed said...but I hadn’t seen that footage...looking at that, it could easily have been an entirely different outcome...terrifying images..
Yeah, there's loads of worse footage out there. Really fortunate if only 2 injuries with the speed that fire spreads like that.
The Slim Reaper
16-11-2019, 03:58 PM
1195642340410572800
Kizzy
16-11-2019, 04:22 PM
Of course it will happen again and again untill it's removed ...
Have to say I'm surprised at the stay put advice being challenged as the firefighters contingency plan for tackling high rise fires. The fire doors in those blocks isolate fires. But the fire wasn't spreading from the inside out.. it was from the outside in, how could the firefighters assess and tackle that in the time frame they had?
Yeah, there's loads of worse footage out there. Really fortunate if only 2 injuries with the speed that fire spreads like that.
...yeah, they’re the fortunate ones that their only losses will be personal possessions etc...it’ll be interesting what the fire reports show because those flats were meant to have been checked and passed after Grenfell, surely...
Kizzy
16-11-2019, 04:44 PM
Let's not forget the responsibility for that was taken out of the hands of the fire service....
Students assured that flats at The Cube, in Bradshawgate, do not have same dangerous cladding as Grenfell Tower...
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/15375081.students-assured-that-flats-at-the-cube-in-bradshawgate-do-not-have-same-dangerous-cladding-as-grenfell-tower/
Kizzy
16-11-2019, 05:05 PM
Hmm not convinced.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bolton-fire-latest-flats-student-accommodation-cube-cladding-updates-bradshawgate-a9205291.html
The Slim Reaper
16-11-2019, 06:15 PM
1195606859715088385
Investigation into Bolton student flats fire to focus on why it spread 'extremely quickly'...
Experts are investigating why a fire at a student accommodation block spread so quickly, the fire service has said.
Two people were injured after the large blaze broke out at a six-storey student accommodation block known as The Cube in Bolton, Greater Manchester.
Speaking at the scene afterwards, assistant chief fire officer Dave Keelan said: "The fire spread extremely quickly.
...full story..
https://news.sky.com/story/investigation-into-bolton-student-flats-fire-to-focus-on-why-it-spread-extremely-quickly-11862705
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.